Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Gandalf on November 11, 2013, 10:25:37 am
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In the second part I am going to explain the challenge we have had to make a new system for law enforcement.
First of all the system of 'freecops' and 'SAPD' that has been a part of RS3 and RS4 has never really been what it was laid out to be. The difference was made on request of the Chief of Police Kaltsu, who wanted to have a distinction between cops who were trained and following strict procedures and the newer, less trained ones.
This distinction has led to many problems. First of all, the 'trained' officers have at many occasions looked down on the 'freecops' being unwilling to partner with them or teach them.
On the other hand, officers who did not agree with the SAPD have attempted to form competing forces that caused even more issues.
And finally, some players believe that the freecop is a form of legitimized DM where they do not have to follow any type of procedures.
In order to solve this, we have decided that law enforcement in Argonath is a state monopoly, without competition. There is one, undivided, police force which is if needed checked by the Federal institute.
While it is mainly unneeded, to ensure a new police officers knows how he should behave a small training course has been set up, which includes not just answering questions about police procedures but also training in driving and shooting, meaning minimal requirements should be met.
After this, the officer is part of the SAPD and if willing can pursue higher training. However all officers are to behave as police men at all times.
This does not mean they can not roleplay a harsher or even corrupted cop, they do run the risk of suspension if caught however.
Another change has been the implementation of jurisdiction, which is the result of thinking over the different departments. Over time we have moved to 'island departments' however it has always been the issue that cops gravitate towards LS as they find the most possible suspectible offense there. Where we will attempt to spread out over the map (more about that in another part) we felt that cops should experience all cities as well. There for we introduced a jurisdiction system.
The system contains a complicated algorythm that assigns every offocer and senior officer to a department based on where they are needed as soon as they go on duty.
From there they are fee to go anywhere, but in order to encourage cops to remain in their jurisdiction we have limited suspecting to their island only. This has been considered a long time, and been found the best solution. Here are some of the issues considered:
- Jailing ony on jurisdiction: that would mean an officer catching a suspect elsewhere would have to drag him all over the map to get jailed, where as we always have stated that jailing should be done at the nearest available point.
- reward only in jurisdiction: we feel that if a cop is requested to assist in a big situation outside his jurisdiciton or has chased a suspect for a long time he has the right to be able to kill/jail and get rewarded.
- No limit on jurisdiction: that would simply not have any effect and make things continue as they were.
Problems with suspecting: When officers chase someone, they can move out of the island to avoid suspection. The only way to solve this is team work, which has been something we have required from the cops a long time. If you can not susoect a criminal nor be able to direct your colleagues to catch them at the island border, their escape is nothing but correct.
There are some more things to be said, but that needs explanation on other systems first in a next part.
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Very useful Information. :app:
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ty on another info, btw LEO is awesome in RS5 :P
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Thanks for this useful information....I really loved the cop system in RS5 :)
Not only cop system but everything is awesome :) :) :)
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Cheers for that, though it did not answer some of the concerns I've had since I saw that everyone is part of a uniform group.
Firstly, the rules, regulations and procedures of current SAPD differ from ARPD ones, making ARPD more relaxed version. I know officers who never attempted to join a 'dark blue rank' just for that reason alone, as they felt their enjoyability of their time spent here was becoming more limited. So my question here is, will everyone have to follow the current SAPD's procedures, or will there be different ones for more trained ones (part of a division)? Will everyone in SAPD have to follow current ARPD procedures, and as soon as they join a division, current SAPD procedures will apply to them? Or is there something else in the works?
Secondly, if a unified system will be set in place for all, what about the "No major crime for officers+" rule? That's going to get binned, right?
Thirdly, the jurisdiction system itself, I don't believe anyone has even the slightest clue how populated RS5 is going to be, but if RS4 is any indication, then there are hardly any (1-4) police officers online during night time, which would render this system completely inefficient if you're trying to attempt something like being a DEA agent, flying over the drug spots, trying to locate anyone ordering heroin (which I've done quite efficiently in my past). For this to work with the proposed system, you would have to find one police officer from each jurisdiction, have them all agree to fly with you on a (mostly) tedious and boring patrol, all the while removing every single police officer off the roads, due to lack of them.
Besides that, say there's 3 cops online, each in one jurisdiction, and the guy at Los Santos calls out C30A code, being under fire by 3 guys. Is there even any point for calling the C30A?
And lastly, which divisions of the SAPD will have no restrictions on jurisdiction? FBI? SAUD? No one?
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Great words GANDALF! It took me time to read. Thanks for the information.
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Great jurisdiction additions, but how will the system determinate if an area is totally empty and does not require any officers?
I suggest that a 2 Civilians:1 Officer ratio(for each major city/county), so everyone can play without having to drive in ghost towns. :)
I also wish to suggest some sort of Dispatch suspecting way, which an officer would use to contact a dispatcher to issue a warrant on someone outside of their jurisdiction. It will still require team work. :>
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I personally really love the new Police system as Teamwork will Be needed to Suspect people Leaving the State. :) Great words Gandalf.
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Long post
Great post. I agree with every point.
I myself am a "relaxed" freecop, I enjoy keeping the streets clean of criminals, but I never applied to SAPD, because I enjoy being a more free LEO. If the jurisdiction system will come into play, I am surely never going to patrol if I am put somewhere else than LS.
Why is there a system that forces officers into SF and LV, but nothing that forced criminals to do so? What if there are 10 suspects in LS, and 1 in SF and 1 in LV? Why would we have only 1/3 of the officers tackling the 10 suspects?
There's no point into forcing people to spread out to the different, more remote locations. I don't see any problems with the system as it is right now.
New updates like this don't usually take into consideration that there are a lot of times when theres under 20 players online. This system might kind of work if there would always be 50+ players, and the suspects would always go to SF and LV. But still there would be no point in forcing people to switch patrol locations.
You can easily roleplay the jurisdictions. The people who decide these organized patrol areas now are much more intelligent than some scripted system when it comes to efficently cathing criminals. A higher ranked LEO can decide that "Tonight we will mostly patrol LS only, because 90% of the crimes happen here". Why are we forcing a script to replace a well functioning RP system.
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Well, no, I understand completely and 100% where these changes are coming from, the reasoning is great, I have no issues with that, but when it comes to execution of these changes, that's where the problems come from. Any roleplay attempts by SAPD to have constant police force in other counties have failed miserably, being limited to organised patrols and very few cops staying there. ARPD goes against Argonath Vision's equal chance for all, and brings out looking down on ARPD officers from few individuals (It's not that common, though.).
But yeah, the execution of ideas to fix these problems brings out other problems, and that's where my concerns come in. Current system is adjusted for current situation, and it works, I'm not sure what ARPD Command has in plans to make it fair for everyone without upsetting the balance, but it better be good.
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Thanks for another Great Info. The New jurisdiction system is Epic.
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Why is there a system that forces officers into SF and LV, but nothing that forced criminals to do so? What if there are 10 suspects in LS, and 1 in SF and 1 in LV? Why would we have only 1/3 of the officers tackling the 10 suspects?
New updates like this don't usually take into consideration that there are a lot of times when theres under 20 players online. This system might kind of work if there would always be 50+ players, and the suspects would always go to SF and LV. But still there would be no point in forcing people to switch patrol locations.
Good points . About patrolling at ever place I am totally against your points though . Every part of our state should be protected.
For the most crimes happening in LS . This is pretty much true . Everything starts at LS . But most of the criminals flee to the rest of the state when they get suspected . Why? Because they can escape freely . It's pretty much like they do IRL . They go the less populated area and somehow hide themselves .
Now unfortunatelly this is wrong . I hate the fact that group that live in LS have more problems/visits from the PD than the rest .
Also about the System itself . How comes that although it has so many weak points it is created? When someone posted an idea it was denied even for the slightest problem . Still I see many here that are not taken into consideration .... I am pretty sure that you get what I mean ....
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Seems cool, thanks for your time explaining. But whats about:
I go on duty and get LV jurisdiction, I don't like that jurisdiction so I re-duty and now gets LS jurisdiction, it's rulebreak?
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The only problem which really gets me worried is that criminals and citizens won't be able to see the rank of the officer who they are talking to or who is chasing them. I get worried when I don't know things for certain. In the past I could see if the officer was experienced enough to be in the SAPD, now everyone is in the SAPD. We can not know their rank unless they will tell us, so we can't know if we talk to an experienced officer or not.
I don't like this and a solution would be to bring /rank to citizens as well.
And I see the logic about the jurisdiction system, although limiting players in certain boundaries isn't how it should be done.
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The only problem which really gets me worried is that criminals and citizens won't be able to see the rank of the officer who they are talking to or who is chasing them. I get worried when I don't know things for certain. In the past I could see if the officer was experienced enough to be in the SAPD, now everyone is in the SAPD. We can not know their rank unless they will tell us, so we can't know if we talk to an experienced officer or not.
What difference would it make for you? I see it as possibility for discrimination against unexperienced officers.
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This does not mean they can not roleplay a harsher or even corrupted cop, they do run the risk of suspension if caught however.
Edit: ops misreaded the does not with a does.
In this case then :jackson: :bananav: :bananarock: yessss
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The difference, Janar, is that you can adjust your tactics to outplay your opponent. Right now, if there are mostly SAPD online, I have no problems using a slower car, such as a Phoenix, to outmaneuver them (have fun recovering from all those PITs!!!) rather than blindly outrun them in an infernus, due to restrictions of opening fire on a slower vehicle. Further on, if a fight breaks out, I am aware of the training they've received in their respective organisations.
Police does the same thing, you won't approach 3 criminals from a well known mob organisation same way you'll approach 3 random criminals.
Yes, that is not a foolproof method, but it works most of the time.
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The only problem which really gets me worried is that criminals and citizens won't be able to see the rank of the officer who they are talking to or who is chasing them. I get worried when I don't know things for certain. In the past I could see if the officer was experienced enough to be in the SAPD, now everyone is in the SAPD. We can not know their rank unless they will tell us, so we can't know if we talk to an experienced officer or not.
I don't like this and a solution would be to bring /rank to citizens as well.
Okay, well /rank on RS4 is limited to people who are on cop duty and as well moderators+.
Which puts out;
The only problem which really gets me worried is that criminals and citizens won't be able to see the rank of the officer who they are talking to or who is chasing them
Is not changed, therefore;
In the past I could see if the officer was experienced enough to be in the SAPD
How? By the colour of their names? No.. Because there were even ARPD officers who actually did a better job than some SAPD members.. So, uhm... What's the problem if the past will be the same as the future?
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When there is a low amount of players, things will sort itself out. Do not underestimate the inginuity of Conroy in creating the algorythm.
In future posts you will see why I believe others will spread out over the map as well.
As for not knowing who you are dealing with: that is the point. What you do know is that every police officer has been given basic training and there for should know how to behave.
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I like the way you think. But you already know this :P
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When there is a low amount of players, things will sort itself out. Do not underestimate the inginuity of Conroy in creating the algorythm.
Anything along the lines of temporal removal of jurisdiction until more cops show up? That'd be nice.
Anyway, the reason I'm talking about not knowing who you're dealing with, is that you can adjust to have more fun, not just for yourself, but for the other party as well. Police can do this with criminal organisations already, I've seen same situations go waaaay differently just because cops would approach them in a completely different way, just because they're from groups who have different codex.
I really think this applies to new cops, who'd be ARPD, over more experienced ones, who you can assume know the law already.
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The difference, Janar, is that you can adjust your tactics to outplay your opponent.
Thanks for explaining my point again, Pingster. Spares me a lot of time.
Which puts out;Is not changed, therefore; How? By the colour of their names? No.. Because there were even ARPD officers who actually did a better job than some SAPD members.. So, uhm... What's the problem if the past will be the same as the future?
I know the ARPD Officers who are capable of being a decent cop, believe me. Not really hard to get to know the 'ARPD Veterans'. The problem is that it will be harder for me and others to differ the proper police from the less skilled police.
A blue name means trust, safety. When a light-blue cop approaches me, who I have never seen before, I become more alert and secure. I don't want to be insecure of my opponent all the time. In my opinion the current system was perfect. (maybe a bit more rules for the ARPD)
As for not knowing who you are dealing with: that is the point.
Aah well, that saddens me. It is how it is. We will see how it turns out in RS5, I could be overreacting here.
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Just realised i misreaded the "does not" with a "does".
Edited my post (that will be the opposite) :D
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ok...
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You approached the problem on his bad end.
Most fundamental thing on the world, if there are no citizens, theres no need for law, and theres no need for police attendance.
Do you want from the cops to start policing in the ghost towns? If you would develop the civil achievements, and challenge the citizens to roleplay all over San Andreas... it would make sense to divide the police presence up, but in your way its useless and makes the police role pain in the ass.
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No one forces you to stay in an area, you just cannot suspect players outside of your jurisdiction. other than that you can stand wherever you want;
Team up with an officer from the jurisdiction you want instead.
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The announcement says the script was made to disperse the police force all over San Andreas. Policemen still does not have real reason for staying outside of Los Santos, with this new change you dont motivate them to patrol everywhere.
At least you wouldn't obscure the real sense of the change. The new things will yield that the policemen will have limited strength, and not that false conclusion they will be patroling everywhere in the state. You are wRONg.