Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: [NP]Monte Montague on December 19, 2013, 01:27:33 pm
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How come /em was removed?
It was useful.
Wasn't good when people started to use it like ((OMFG, YOU CAN'T SEE THAT)).
I saw something in game but forgot.
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I am also confused on why /em was removed. People are still using it via using brackets which just makes it harder. It would be nice to have it back.
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Wasn't good when people started to use it like ((OMFG, YOU CAN'T SEE THAT)).
This is the reason why it was removed.
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This is the reason why it was removed.
Well that's just stupid.
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This is the reason why it was removed.
So devs gave into abusers?
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So devs gave into abusers?
Truth is justice. I'll tell you the truth on also another reason why it was removed.
Players used to imitate / impersonate others using /em by adding many spaces for example..
/em PlayerName (id) I like penis. bunch bunch of spaces to cut out your name. so it made it look like that person was actually using /l but it was an impersonation done through /em.
And yes the other reason was because players were using it as out of character perspective.
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Truth is justice. I'll tell you the truth on also another reason why it was removed.
Players used to imitate / impersonate others using /em by adding many spaces for example..
/em PlayerName (id) I like penis. bunch bunch of spaces to cut out your name. so it made it look like that person was actually using /l but it was an impersonation done through /em.
And yes the other reason was because players were using it as out of character perspective.
All the points you stated are abuse of command and should be reported. People some time miss-use /ad, but i do not see that being removed.
Its pure retarted not to have /em IMO. You just cant rp smoothly without narrating now and then. "/em there is a black cup on the table." isnt the same as "/me acknowledges the black cup on the table..
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All the points you stated are abuse of command and should be reported. People some time miss-use /ad, but i do not see that being removed.
Its pure retarted not to have /em IMO. You just cant rp smoothly without narrating now and then. "/em there is a black cup on the table." isnt the same as "/me acknowledges the black cup on the table..
My statement was the reason why it was removed, not my personal opinion :)
But my personal opinion would be considered close to what you mentioned.
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By removing this useful command, in my mind comes the answer: What about the role-play, Argonath ? For me, ''/em'' was ready to hand; I could elaborate the atmosphere and etc. Everytime this command increased the level of rp.
Because of some mindless guys who are here just for trolling, this modification affects the entire community. I'm really losing my interests in Argonath, because we have no rights, and it's not correct.
By removing this command, please also remove /ad; because I've seen ''small penis smells like dead black'', or ''Kill me and win 10k'', this is also a lie ofc, and simultaneously provokes the community to deathmatch.
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I want /em back, for the sake of "S/F?".
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Just have to make /em work like /ad and have better scripting.
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By removing this useful command, in my mind comes the answer: What about the role-play, Argonath ? For me, ''/em'' was ready to hand; I could elaborate the atmosphere and etc. Everytime this command increased the level of rp.
Because of some mindless guys who are here just for trolling, this modification affects the entire community. I'm really losing my interests in Argonath, because we have no rights, and it's not correct.
By removing this command, please also remove /ad; because I've seen ''small penis smells like dead black'', or ''Kill me and win 10k'', this is also a lie ofc, and simultaneously provokes the community to deathmatch.
I agree with you for 100 Percent, i have the feeling that Argonath is removing all the RP stuff..
It's a shame because they are losing players that actually want to RP
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I want /em back, for the sake of "S/F?".
This is also the reason why it was removed as well.
The purpose of /em has been misused so much that it lost its original idea, so thanks for that.
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Because of some mindless guys who are here just for trolling, this modification affects the entire community.
This approach is being used for other things too which I completely disagree with and do not understand, why?
Why are rule breakers being tackled by scripts ruining the game play of all the other players.
Seems as if rule breakers are controlling the server.
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/em S/F is correct usage.
It describes the environment and how the actions in the role ply work out.
Players give each other a chance to roleplay.
/me is on the ground.
/em you'll see blood around me etc.
/me attempts to hit a guy in the head.
/em would he fall unconscious?
That's how you use /em in roleplay. But sadly we just removed one of the biggest tools in roleplay.
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Some of the responses to this topic are just laughable.
A player who knows how to roleplay needs only /me to roleplay (especially those early Argonathians who had to deal so often with the script being down), and some skilled players can even roleplay without the usage of /me. You can ask RON about this if you want, should you get the chance.
All the points you stated are abuse of command and should be reported. People some time miss-use /ad, but i do not see that being removed.
Your usage of /ad as an example is invalid. Whereas /ad is misused, the vast majority of all usage holds true to the purpose of /ad: advertising. Furthermore, misuse of /ad is punished and it is public, contrary to /em which does not carry such penalties unless used in a manner in direct breach of the server rules.
In the case of /em, more people were using it for fail purposes such as "for those without brains: Chat" and "S/F", rather than its original purpose, which is third-person roleplay. Therefore, the usage of /em can be said to have diverged far from its original purpose, which cannot be said for /ad.
Its pure retarted not to have /em IMO. You just cant rp smoothly without narrating now and then. "/em there is a black cup on the table." isnt the same as "/me acknowledges the black cup on the table..
Then I have to say your RPing skills are poor. While two essential components of roleplaying are imagination and vocabulary, concluding from your assertions (I will not use the term "argument"; an argument is substantiated whereas an assertion, which your statements fall under, is not) and from many examples that I have seen pointing to the contrary, it would be safe to say that even a new player who has poor english but a good imagination can perform better.
/me notices a black cup on the table.
Argonath players have roleplayed since 2006 without /em (and in many instances all the way up to 2010, without scripts), with some of the best roleplay in the GTA multiplayer community produced only with /me and imagination.
/em S/F is correct usage.
It describes the environment and how the actions in the role ply work out.
Players give each other a chance to roleplay.
/me is on the ground.
/em you'll see blood around me etc.
/me attempts to hit a guy in the head.
/em would he fall unconscious?
That's how you use /em in roleplay. But sadly we just removed one of the biggest tools in roleplay.
No, that is not how you use /em in roleplay. /em is used for third-person actions as you said, but players giving each other a chance to direct the flow of roleplay is based on the players themselves, rather than the command /em.
Example of correct usage:
/me kicks a grandma on to the street.
The grandma is hit by a speeding car, and promptly dies. ([RPIT]JDC (69))
Example of incorrect usage:
/me kicks a grandma on to the street.
S/F? ([RPIT]JDC (69))
To further substantiate, here are examples involving how other players direct the flow of roleplay, rather than me kicking a theoretical grandma:
Example 1:
/me attempts to kick JDC2 off the bridge.
/me nearly falls, but manages to hang on for dear life.
or
/me falls of the bridge, is impaled on a sharp rock below, and dies.
Example 2:
/me attempts to kick JDC2 off the bridge.
S/F? (JDC1 (1))
S (JDC1 (2))
/me falls off the bridge and dies.
The two examples are common examples of roleplay flow, unfortunately with the latter. In the first example, you can see how the players direct the flow of roleplay through their own, natural actions, rather than requiring some S/F dialogue because they are too stupid or mentally challenged to realize that the nature of their next action can direct the roleplay in (sometimes, breaking) the context set by the last action of the other player.
Simplified, the nature of the action in itself is enough to (help) direct the flow of a roleplay.
I would like to picture out a roleplay server as a cake. It could be any flavor you want. The roleplay skill of the players is the inside of the cake, while scripts are the fancy icing on the outside. Even if you had all the icing you want, if the cake tastes horrible, it is a poor quality cake; a cake that does not have much eye-pleasing icing, but a good flavor, is more pleasing to eat.
Likewise, you can have all the scripts you want, but if players do not know how to roleplay properly (with or without them) then the quality of roleplay on the server will remain shitty, and Argonath is a community founded on and known for imaginative roleplay.
Players bring RP, not scripts.
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/em S/F is correct usage.
It absolutlely is not. It is quite possibly the shittest use of /em I have ever seen.
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Truth is justice. I'll tell you the truth on also another reason why it was removed.
Players used to imitate / impersonate others using /em by adding many spaces for example..
/em PlayerName (id) I like penis. bunch bunch of spaces to cut out your name. so it made it look like that person was actually using /l but it was an impersonation done through /em.
And yes the other reason was because players were using it as out of character perspective.
No, I was apart of Beta tester team and I know why they removed it. They removed it because it was used as OOC chat and not as condition of the specified moment.
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To be honest, i miss the /em command. I used it many times to bring depth into roleplay. It is a shame that it is removed to prevent abuse such as "S/F?".
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Your usage of /ad as an example is invalid. Whereas /ad is misused, the vast majority of all usage holds true to the purpose of /ad: advertising. Furthermore, misuse of /ad is punished and it is public, contrary to /em which does not carry such penalties unless used in a manner in direct breach of the server rules.
I dont think you comprehended the example properly, mate. My point was that both are rulebreaking and should be reported, and your statement just proives me more right.Just becuase one is public and one is more private does not change the fact that it is rulebreaking.
Then I have to say your RPing skills are poor. While two essential components of roleplaying are imagination and vocabulary, concluding from your assertions (I will not use the term "argument"; an argument is substantiated whereas an assertion, which your statements fall under, is not) and from many examples that I have seen pointing to the contrary, it would be safe to say that even a new player who has poor english but a good imagination can perform better.
/me notices a black cup on the table.
Argonath players have roleplayed since 2006 without /em (and in many instances all the way up to 2010, without scripts), with some of the best roleplay in the GTA multiplayer community produced only with /me and imagination.
I'm sorry have we ever roleplayed before, my memory fails me. Pretty judgemental there arent we? Some people prefer using /em in roleplay. Just because of people miss-using the command, doesnt mean we HAVE to remove it. You may not like using /em , and I respect that. But some people like roleplayin using /em. Its just a roleplaying style, I do not think that because you dont use /em makes you a better roleplayer then people who use it :). Its facistic, removing the command and forcing players to roleplay in a manner they are not comfortable with, when they could have a simple command to make everything easier.
Saying /em limits imagination is pure stupidity coming out of your mouth. It is a tool to expand roleplay, to branch it out.
For the black cup on the table example: I agree it is a bad example i gave. But the way you use it is INDIRECTLY telling the person you are roleplaying with and that bothers the flexibility of most roleplays. Now a little English 101 for you my friend. 'Notice' is when you acknowledge the existence of something the first time. If you already know it is there the word 'Notice' would be incorrect usage. But I'm sure you knew that already.
Example:
/me drops a coin.
and then: /me sees the coin become tails
now the problem here for me, is that is indirectly telling my partner what is going on. I would like a more direct approach on the situation and use /em the coin faces tails up. But that is a style of roleplay. And argonath is not a strict roleplay server, so i expect you to respect my style of roleplay.
Now another
/me is on the ground.
/em you'll see blood around me etc.
Sure, you COULD use /me is lying on the ground covered with blood. And honestly thats what I would probably do too. BUT that is a style of roleplay. /em bring more PATHS to roleplay through, and I see that as a plus, not a limitation.
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Example of correct usage:
/me kicks a grandma on to the street.
The grandma is hit by a speeding car, and promptly dies. ([RPIT]JDC (69))
Example of incorrect usage:
/me kicks a grandma on to the street.
S/F? ([RPIT]JDC (69))
To further substantiate, here are examples involving how other players direct the flow of roleplay, rather than me kicking a theoretical grandma:
Example 1:
/me attempts to kick JDC2 off the bridge.
/me nearly falls, but manages to hang on for dear life.
or
/me falls of the bridge, is impaled on a sharp rock below, and dies.
Example 2:
/me attempts to kick JDC2 off the bridge.
S/F? (JDC1 (1))
S (JDC1 (2))
/me falls off the bridge and dies.
The two examples are common examples of roleplay flow, unfortunately with the latter. In the first example, you can see how the players direct the flow of roleplay through their own, natural actions, rather than requiring some S/F dialogue because they are too stupid or mentally challenged to realize that the nature of their next action can direct the roleplay in (sometimes, breaking) the context set by the last action of the other player.
Simplified, the nature of the action in itself is enough to (help) direct the flow of a roleplay.
I agree on you on this one. But im not going to talking about the usage of s/f, just /em.
.I would like to picture out a roleplay server as a cake. It could be any flavor you want. The roleplay skill of the players is the inside of the cake, while scripts are the fancy icing on the outside. Even if you had all the icing you want, if the cake tastes horrible, it is a poor quality cake; a cake that does not have much eye-pleasing icing, but a good flavor, is more pleasing to eat.
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Likewise, you can have all the scripts you want, but if players do not know how to roleplay properly (with or without them) then the quality of roleplay on the server will remain shitty, and Argonath is a community founded on and known for imaginative roleplay.
Players bring RP, not scripts.
Throughout the years /em has been essential to most, if not all players to roleplay. Removing it suddenly disrupts their roleplaying. Alright, you are 1337 playor and roleplay without /em. Sure, Anyone can roleplay without it. But some people want the tool /em as it makes roleplay smoother for them. Just because you do not want is, doesnt give you the right to call players who use /em "poor quality cake".
Lets play it your way, I shall give an example:
I would like to picture a roleplay server as a hotdog. And the taste of the hotdog is roleplay. Sausage is the players roleplay skill. Now, Mayo is /me. Ketchup is /em. Now, I get it. YOU dont like ketchup. I respect that, and by all means, do not put it on your hotdog. BUT, most people like ketchup. And just because our precious JDC doesnt like ketchup, doesnt mean we should remove the option of using ketchup for everybody.
SURE some sausages will be bad no matter how much ketchup or mayo or mustard it uses. But there are good sausages out there who want their tases to be enhanced with ketchup.
And SURE, some people will drop some ketchup on the ground (using /em incorrectly). Doesnt mean we should remove the option for others.
Besides. /em is community friendly. Small things matter. And people are wondering why community has problems with RS5...
So what I am trying to say overall, dont be a facistic sausage and let people roleplay the style they want, not the style they are forced to, JDC :)
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Some of the responses to this topic are just laughable.
Yes, especially your post.
We have players from nearly all countries; it is normal that some aren't good at English or use S/F. Yes, sometimes they may not know how to RP properly, but that doesn't make them "stupid" or "mentally-challenged."
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Andy Gvardia, You deserve a medal!
i couldn't agree more :app:
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Yes, especially your post.
We have players from nearly all countries; it is normal that some aren't good at English or use S/F. Yes, sometimes they may not know how to RP properly, but that doesn't make them "stupid" or "mentally-challenged."
Monte Montague likes this post.
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I do happen to agree that /em is a tool people like to RP with.
Especially, in various different roleplays.
Another example to add to this topic:
* Steven_J looks at the patient care monitor
What would the pulse reading, oxygen levels and blood preasure display on the monitor? Steven_J(69))
/em is one of the few commands I know roleplaying medics such as Mark_Hansley, =AV=Ross.. myself and others use. Medics don't get much script support apart from /heal and vehicles. In a way in terms of medical stuff, this has now decreased medics from less script support.
I know for a fact /em is used correctly not that much, but why give into the people who misuse it?
Surely, if it is claimed as misuse of the command, then you are script abusing by misusing it, which is punishable?
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Not meant to be offensive to anyone
Ofcourse, people say '/em is being abused' because they are the ones not roleplaying, if you have a real roleplay, you will see /em is used quite a lot. Medics, firemen, even police officers use it for roleplay. You guys just do not see it since you are not there
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We have players from nearly all countries; it is normal that some aren't good at English or use S/F. Yes, sometimes they may not know how to RP properly, but that doesn't make them "stupid" or "mentally-challenged."
They, too have roleplayed for years without /em. The problem is not the presence of /em, but the spread of "RP crutches" into Argonath, that do not belong here (which is also an entire discussion into itself), such as "O O C" which caused /em to stray from its original usage.
If you type that phrase without the spaces, you will see the forum has censored it to "for those without brains:". Such phrasing can only be input by someone who outranks you, most likely an Owner. Now, unless your personal distaste for me limits your criticism only to my post and not to like-minded content from someone who outranks you, feel free to criticize their action (of referring to "RP crutch"-users as "for those without brains:") as laughable too. Until then, I stand by my words.
I dont think you comprehended the example properly, mate. My point was that both are rulebreaking and should be reported, and your statement just proives me more right.Just becuase one is public and one is more private does not change the fact that it is rulebreaking.
Even here, you are wrong. Not only is your understanding of examples found wanting, but even that of the rules. The abuse of /ad is rulebreaking and punishable by admin sanctions, while the abuse of /em is not always so.
Abuse (the appropriate term) of /em as "O O C" chat is not admin-punishable, while abuse of /em to break server rules or make other players look like they said something that they actually did not, is admin-punishable. Regardless, the former case still caused /em to stray from its original purpose, which is enough reason for the developers to warrant its removal.
I'm sorry have we ever roleplayed before, my memory fails me. Pretty judgemental there arent we?
We don't need to. You do not always have to encounter someone personally to get some grasp of their nature or capacity. In some cases, reading how they express / defend certain matters is enough. If you saw someone defending that "1+1=3" is mathematically correct, you don't have to know them personally to know that they are poor at maths. The last thing I am being is judgmental.
Throughout the years /em has been essential to most, if not all players to roleplay. Removing it suddenly disrupts their roleplaying.
If you want me to take this statement as an actual argument and not as a mere assertion, please substantiate. Do discuss as well how players' roleplay was much limited and disrupted in the years before RS4 added /em.
Some people prefer using /em in roleplay. Just because of people miss-using the command, doesnt mean we HAVE to remove it. You may not like using /em , and I respect that.
But some people like roleplayin using /em. Its just a roleplaying style, I do not think that because you dont use /em makes you a better roleplayer then people who use it :).
And just because our precious JDC doesnt like ketchup, doesnt mean we should remove the option of using ketchup for everybody.
And SURE, some people will drop some ketchup on the ground (using /em incorrectly). Doesnt mean we should remove the option for others.
For the record, I actually LIKED /em. Even if I was capable of doing everything I did in /em using /me, there were some pretty hilarious scenarios I found it easier to pull of with /em. What I hated was how its usage became corrupted, which caused its removal for the rest of us.
Ask around in the development team why certain widely-used commands are removed, and even why certain admin commands are restricted to ranks higher than whoever could use them previously. The reason you will get is "misuse". So yes, misuse can be enough reason to warrant the removal of a command.
Its facistic, removing the command and forcing players to roleplay in a manner they are not comfortable with, when they could have a simple command to make everything easier.
So what I am trying to say overall, dont be a facistic sausage and let people roleplay the style they want, not the style they are forced to, JDC :)
But that is a style of roleplay. And argonath is not a strict roleplay server, so i expect you to respect my style of roleplay.
And I would agree with you in the last quote. However, the developers removed /em. If you intend to stand by your words, do look them in the eye and say that they are being fascistic for removing /em.
Saying /em limits imagination is pure stupidity coming out of your mouth. It is a tool to expand roleplay, to branch it out.
And honestly thats what I would probably do too. BUT that is a style of roleplay. /em bring more PATHS to roleplay through, and I see that as a plus, not a limitation.
Sure, Anyone can roleplay without it. But some people want the tool /em as it makes roleplay smoother for them. Just because you do not want is, doesnt give you the right to call players who use /em "poor quality cake".
Closer to pure stupidity would be the action of you twisting my words; nowhere did I state that using /em automatically limits your imagination. In fact, I would agree with you that it can be a tool to expand imagination and roleplay.
What I said was that the MISUSAGE of /em prevents players from sufficiently relying on their imagination (which can very well create "poor quality cake", as they would leave the act of understanding their actions to (the usage of) "RP Crutches" rather than continually improving their roleplay until it reaches (and surpasses) the point where others can understand it immediately.
For the black cup on the table example: I agree it is a bad example i gave. But the way you use it is INDIRECTLY telling the person you are roleplaying with and that bothers the flexibility of most roleplays.
now the problem here for me, is that is indirectly telling my partner what is going on. I would like a more direct approach on the situation and use /em the coin faces tails up.
Putting whether the black cup was a good or bad example aside, kindly expound how [me knowing that there is a black cup on the table] disrupts the flexibility of roleplay as compared to [there being a black cup on the table, whether I know it or not].
Now a little English 101 for you my friend. 'Notice' is when you acknowledge the existence of something the first time. If you already know it is there the word 'Notice' would be incorrect usage. But I'm sure you knew that already.
Modesty aside, English may be the last subject you want to lecture me on. But that aside, seeing as we are talking about the flexibility and variability of roleplay situations, a character in the scenario may or may not know (for the first time) that there is a cup on the table. So depending on the situation, the words "see" or "notice" may be more appropriate. Though that's beside the point.
And people are wondering why community has problems with RS5...
Speaking from a historical perspective, the community has always had problems with everything. Look at the difference in certain complaints before ("omg im so bored of RS4 damn devs what taking u so long") and after ("omg this sucks bring back RS4 now") the release of RS5. Look even further back and you will find the same pattern continues.
Before anyone accuses my statements of being ungrounded on the basis of me "not being here", remember we are discussing patterns that predate my 6-month hiatus by a long time. While I understand (and have seen for myself) that /em is used by roleplay characters in many fields, and have done so frequently myself, the sad fact is that it has been misused enough to warrant its removal.
Consequently, it would be safe to say that unless you can propose a sure-fire way of making sure that it doesn't happen again, the chances of us having /em back at all are slim.
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It is such a shame that this feature was not introduced in RS5. I used it a lot.
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Even here, you are wrong. Not only is your understanding of examples found wanting, but even that of the rules. The abuse of /ad is rulebreaking and punishable by admin sanctions, while the abuse of /em is not always so.
Abuse (the appropriate term) of /em as "O O C" chat is not admin-punishable, while abuse of /em to break server rules or make other players look like they said something that they actually did not, is admin-punishable. Regardless, the former case still caused /em to stray from its original purpose, which is enough reason for the developers to warrant its removal.
If you would clear your mind for a second and not look at the situation so prejudgemental, you would realize that the underlined words has been my point all along.
We don't need to. You do not always have to encounter someone personally to get some grasp of their nature or capacity. In some cases, reading how they express / defend certain matters is enough. If you saw someone defending that "1+1=3" is mathematically correct, you don't have to know them personally to know that they are poor at maths. The last thing I am being is judgmental.
I only stated that I though removing /em was retarted, and you started calling my 'rp skills poor'. Me saying that removal of /em is retarted is MY OPINION, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Whereas 1+1=2 is a SCIENTIFIC fact and is in no way variable. So that makes your 1+1=3 example is totaly irrelevant. Maybe if you werent so narrow sighted and determined to prove me wrong and insult me, your brain cell would of come out with an example that makes a spec of sense.
Do discuss as well how players' roleplay was much limited and disrupted in the years before RS4 added /em.
Once you give a community a very functional command for a very long time, the community begans to use it so much that is feels like a necessity. It grows roots into people. People get bound to the command. Removing it can startle people.
Now, Ill give an exampe so a simple mind can understand. There was no electricity years ago. Just because people had gotten along without it centruries ago, does not mean that you can cope without electricity. Sure its a wild example, but i think it got through some thick skulls out there ;)
Ask around in the development team why certain widely-used commands are removed, and even why certain admin commands are restricted to ranks higher than whoever could use them previously. The reason you will get is "misuse". So yes, misuse can be enough reason to warrant the removal of a command.
PLEASE, are you f**king serious? IS misuse of the command /em argonaths BIGGEST problem? There are many MANY more exploitable,abusable and serious commands and such with much more severe consequences to worry about rather then the abuse of /em in the server.
And I would agree with you in the last quote. However, the developers removed /em. If you intend to stand by your words, do look them in the eye and say that they are being fascistic for removing /em.
Just look at the ratio on this topic who want /em and who dont. I would say about %90 of regulars rather have it. I have no intend to take an aggresive approach to the matter by saying "YOU FACISTS BRING BACK /EM". I would propose a voting, which is democratic and much or subtle then cussing them. Though, I probably wont do anything, and let someone else do it :D
Closer to pure stupidity would be the action of you twisting my words; nowhere did I state that using /em automatically limits your imagination.
Here mate: it would be safe to say that even a new player who has poor english but a good imagination can perform better.
You stated this comment after I said removal of /em is retarted. According to you, I do not have imagination because i use /em. though if a person with poor English has imagination, he doesnt need /em and is a better roleplayer than I. I think you have to look at the bigger picture here. I dont know why you have it out for me, but most, if not all the community wants /em back. Doesnt that mean nothing to you?
What I said was that the MISUSAGE of /em prevents players from sufficiently relying on their imagination (which can very well create "poor quality cake", as they would leave the act of understanding their actions to (the usage of) "RP Crutches" rather than continually improving their roleplay until it reaches (and surpasses) the point where others can understand it immediately.
I agree on this, but a misusage is a misusage, it is not the point of my discussion.
Putting whether the black cup was a good or bad example aside, kindly expound how [me knowing that there is a black cup on the table] disrupts the flexibility of roleplay as compared to [there being a black cup on the table, whether I know it or not].
Sure man, let me help you understand. Now I want you to concentrate mate mkay? It'll be easier for you to understand that way. Now, lets say I am in a room waiting for you. You walk in, I am sitting behind the table. We talk abit, and then I want you to know there is a black cup on the table, for roleplay reasons. Now, using /me glances at a black cup on the table. and then i continue chatting with you. Now, what if I didnt want my conversation to be interupted by my character interacting somehow with the cup? Why should I interact with the cup to let you know it is there? Why can I not tell you directly, instead of using a indirect approach to tell you? Hmmm... /em seems like a god idea doesnt in my boy?
BUT OF COURSE, you may want to tell him indirectly. It just loops back to style of roleplay. I respect yours, you respect mine :)
Speaking from a historical perspective, the community has always had problems with everything. Look at the difference in certain complaints before ("omg im so bored of RS4 damn devs what taking u so long") and after ("omg this sucks bring back RS4 now") the release of RS5. Look even further back and you will find the same pattern continues.
I agree, the community always finds something to moan about. But has it ever been so severe that the server population has dropped to quarter overall to what it used to be? Its a bit more serious this time honey.
Before anyone accuses my statements of being ungrounded on the basis of me "not being here", remember we are discussing patterns that predate my 6-month hiatus by a long time. While I understand (and have seen for myself) that /em is used by roleplay characters in many fields, and have done so frequently myself, the sad fact is that it has been misused enough to warrant its removal.
That explains alot. Maybe if you were here, you would see how people have uneasy moments during roleplay due to no /em. I havent played RS5 too much myself, but in the time I have I realized it. Maybe if you went in game, it would inlighten you. Rather than shouting greedily what is more convenient for yourself from the inside of a cave.
Consequently, it would be safe to say that unless you can propose a sure-fire way of making sure that it doesn't happen again, the chances of us having /em back at all are slim.
Here:
I know for a fact /em is used correctly not that much, but why give into the people who misuse it?
Surely, if it is claimed as misuse of the command, then you are script abusing by misusing it, which is punishable?
andSeems as if rule breakers are controlling the server.
I belive that compared to how much /em assists roleplay, afew players using it to chat for those without brains: and such is nothing.
I have nothing else to say. Please, continue to diss /em. But while you are doing so, look at all the regulars commenting. Nearly all of them want /em. And that means something whether you like it or not.You may not want the command but this is bigger than just you and me. Its what the community wants that should count, and you have to accept that fact.
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They, too have roleplayed for years without /em. The problem is not the presence of /em, but the spread of "RP crutches" into Argonath, that do not belong here (which is also an entire discussion into itself), such as "O O C" which caused /em to stray from its original usage.
If you type that phrase without the spaces, you will see the forum has censored it to "for those without brains:". Such phrasing can only be input by someone who outranks you, most likely an Owner. Now, unless your personal distaste for me limits your criticism only to my post and not to like-minded content from someone who outranks you, feel free to criticize their action (of referring to "RP crutch"-users as "for those without brains:") as laughable too. Until then, I stand by my words.
Stand by whatever you want; it doesn't matter. Regardless of whatever word filters, ranks, or commands there are, insulting community members still isn't allowed.
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I do happen to agree that /em is a tool people like to RP with.
Especially, in various different roleplays.
Another example to add to this topic:
* Steven_J looks at the patient care monitor
What would the pulse reading, oxygen levels and blood preasure display on the monitor? Steven_J(69))
/em is one of the few commands I know roleplaying medics such as Mark_Hansley, =AV=Ross.. myself and others use. Medics don't get much script support apart from /heal and vehicles. In a way in terms of medical stuff, this has now decreased medics from less script support.
I know for a fact /em is used correctly not that much, but why give into the people who misuse it?
Surely, if it is claimed as misuse of the command, then you are script abusing by misusing it, which is punishable?
Same for FBI/SAPD/SWAT, if we have to frisk a suspect.
How do we know what the suspect has inside his/her pockets?
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Removing /em is a huge step back in the development of a better roleplay server.
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I always use it like this:
/me runs up to a guy with a bat.
/em you'd be able to see the brown baseball bat has dried blood stains.
/me attempts to hit a player on his head.
Notice that I write attempt. I give him an option. I don't force him to fall on the ground. He can roleplay avoiding it.
That's one more use of the /em.
Then I ask him, /em would I succeed and if yes would you fall unconscious?
I don't see how that's the bad use or the "shitest use" as Reece defined it
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I've spoken with a few devs, /em will be returning in the future.
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You don't need to type attempt. You also don't need to let someone know that they can go your way with the roleplay or not. The roleplay will go however it likes.
The original intention of /em was for third person.
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You don't need to type attempt. You also don't need to let someone know that they can go your way with the roleplay or not. The roleplay will go however it likes.
The original intention of /em was for third person.
You don't need to type attempt but you do however need to give the player an option within your action. If you don't, you would be breaking Argo's no force RP rule. ;)
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The original intention of /em was for third person.
*me ?
But yeah, original intention of /em was describing environment.
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You don't need to type attempt but you do however need to give the player an option within your action. If you don't, you would be breaking Argo's no force RP rule. ;)
You shouldn't need to be force fed options as a player you should know yourself there are always options.
Yeah that's what I mean't Pingster I got them mixed up.
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I remember when the /em was first introduced I did not see the use of it then as well I don't see the use of it now, beside being the duplicate of /me command. I don't see why can't you describe the environment with /me as well as all the NPC characters and their dialogues.
I see a lot of people here used them for giving options. I always use it like this:
/me runs up to a guy with a bat.
/em you'd be able to see the brown baseball bat has dried blood stains.
/me attempts to hit a player on his head.
Notice that I write attempt. I give him an option. I don't force him to fall on the ground. He can roleplay avoiding it.
That's one more use of the /em.
Then I ask him, /em would I succeed and if yes would you fall unconscious?
I don't see how that's the bad use or the "shitest use" as Reece defined it
Maybe I am just weird that I always assume that people react to my role playings anyway that I don't need to write down their options for them and kind of guide them in their way.
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You guys are fun, how about instead of removing half of stuff that's useful and players want it you actually remove the ones that abuse and misuse it? do you expect admins just to sit and /ban clear hackers and do nothing else or also handle other abusers and misusers? why do you go by such policy where one abuser can get one whole command or system removed while other 90% uses it correctly? so what if someone hacks in the server or bot attacks it, you'll remove the server because it was abused?
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Many of you here have a very myopic perspective of the reason /em was removed.
It was not removed simply because of the fact that it was abused. It was also removed because some people were using it in an attempt to turn this server into something that it is not. (a place that supports IC/OOC, which the developers have made it clear it is not)
If someone wants to use those roleplay styles and crutches from other servers / tools for people with low imagination/RP skills, that is their choice. However, that does not mean that the developers will support it, and it certainly does not mean that the scripts will support an encourage it either.
EDIT: Also, everything Jubin said.
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Maybe I am just weird that I always assume that people react to my role playings anyway that I don't need to write down their options for them and kind of guide them in their way.
Then I'm weird too :)
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/me shoots the ball.
/em The ball is flying high and far away, landing in a bush.
/me shoots the ball.
/me sees the ball flying high and land in a bush far away.
Yes, you can convert the /em to a /me. But that does not make it the better option.
/em is simply a good command, and players being unable to use it properly should not be the main cause of the removal, neither even be a reason for any removal that is actually benefiting the role play and the server; which is the case with this one command.
I've spoken with a few devs, /em will be returning in the future.
Goodie!
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/me shoots the ball.
/em The ball is flying high and far away, landing in a bush.
/me shoots the ball.
/me sees the ball flying high and land in a bush far away.
Yes, you can convert the /em to a /me. But that does not make it the better option.
/em is simply a good command, and players being unable to use it properly should not be the main cause of the removal, neither even be a reason for any removal that is actually benefiting the role play and the server; which is the case with this one command.
Goodie!
Yes, I've 'converted' the /em numerous of times in RS5 but its not the same.
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so basically by /em being removed, i'm being told i have to roleplay the way someone else wants me to? i'm being told argonath isn't a community open to other ideas now? we are a community of our own after all, from all over the world. how does that work out when we're so deeply disturbed by how someone else roleplays or how they choose to use a roleplaying tool? that's absurd and pathetic in my book.
Example of incorrect usage:
/me kicks a grandma on to the street.
S/F? ([RPIT]JDC (69))
so tell me exactly why you care so much about how someone chooses to use an extremely versatile command? someone saying S/F doesn't necessarily harm you, me, or anyone in any way, does it? sounds to me like self-righteousness.
roleplay is fun when you have more opportunities and tools at your disposal, although you might not necessarily need them. just because you have a screwdriver, should you ditch the drill?
Yes, especially your post.
We have players from nearly all countries; it is normal that some aren't good at English or use S/F. Yes, sometimes they may not know how to RP properly, but that doesn't make them "stupid" or "mentally-challenged."
this^^. i don't understand the unnecessary disrespect towards people who choose to roleplay using IC/OOC brackets and S/F, especially marking them down as mentally deficient simply because they do something different and you don't like it. they aren't even a threat, and neither are those who choose to l33tclassic /me roleplay. we're all friends here, right?
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so basically by /em being removed, i'm being told i have to roleplay the way someone else wants me to? i'm being told argonath isn't a community open to other ideas now? we are a community of our own after all, from all over the world. how does that work out when we're so deeply disturbed by how someone else roleplays or how they choose to use a roleplaying tool? that's absurd and pathetic in my book.
Let's look at fire missions and imagine I am a selfish fireman who wants money. Just because some other players want me to play fairly and help everyone share with each other, that does not mean I should be disallowed from my playing style of racing first to the mission and ramming / leaving the other firemen, trying to put out all the sources by myself, and not tell anyone the mission is over. After all, we all have different playing styles, right?
Argonath has always encouraged roleplay based on creativity and imagination. Just because it is open to different ideas, that does not mean it will always support them (allowing != supporting), especially those that go against the vision of how it was planned to be.
so tell me exactly why you care so much about how someone chooses to use an extremely versatile command? someone saying S/F doesn't necessarily harm you, me, or anyone in any way, does it? sounds to me like self-righteousness.
S/F is for people with little or no imagination. As Jubin said, I must be weird because I assume people will respond to my roleplay instead of me having to outline all their options for them.
S/F is imagination-limiting in the aspect that it only allows for two immediate outcomes (success or fail) of a single particular roleplay action, rather than giving the maximum possibility for the other player to input their own mix into the roleplay. You pursue a black-and-white mentality rather than an open-ended one.
And from the removal of /em, it seems the developers do not agree with you either.
roleplay is fun when you have more opportunities and tools at your disposal, although you might not necessarily need them. just because you have a screwdriver, should you ditch the drill?
> implying "IC/OOC" / "S/F" / "for those without brains:" is a "drill", or something more "advanced" compared to the imagination- and creativity-based roleplay that Argonath has long encouraged and pursued, which in your example is the more primitive "screwdriver"
this^^. i don't understand the unnecessary disrespect towards people who choose to roleplay using IC/for those without brains: brackets and S/F, especially marking them down as mentally deficient simply because they do something different and you don't like it. they aren't even a threat, and neither are those who choose to l33tclassic /me roleplay. we're all friends here, right?
Imagine a church, it could be any church. In the teachings of some major religions, people of other faiths are welcome, even atheists (after all, they say a certain carpenter's son came for the sick, not for the healthy) and antitheists. However, that does not mean the church will encourage the acts of those who go inside and yell "F*CK RELIGION" over and over again.
(for those wondering, I'm agnostic)
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I wonder what makes you think that you're the authority to decide what is "correct role-play" and what is not. Also what's up with all the rude remarks? I find your 'oldskool 2008 mta:vc hipster wow omg no scripts how indie' mentality absurd too, but you don't see me calling you "stupid or mentally challenged" now, do you?
IMHO, as long as the server rules are abided, a player should be allowed to role-play any way they prefer, and any attempt to role-play should be appreciated no matter in what fashion it is done.
Try saying to Aragorn what you just said to me, or to anyone who has criticized what I am criticizing right now in a manner worse than I am, then I can take your words seriously. Because unless holding a similar mindset to the Owners on this matter is an offense, I'm pretty comfortable with my stance, thank you.
Once again, allowing != supporting. I don't know about you, but I'm not one to sit back and watch while people walk in here and try to turn the place into a copy of the hundreds of oh-so-generic RLRP/IC/OOC servers out there.
Do you love this community or not?
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Many of you here have a very myopic perspective of the reason /em was removed.
It was not removed simply because of the fact that it was abused. It was also removed because some people were using it in an attempt to turn this server into something that it is not. (a place that supports IC/OOC, which the developers have made it clear it is not)
If someone wants to use those roleplay styles and crutches from other servers / tools for people with low imagination/RP skills, that is their choice. However, that does not mean that the developers will support it, and it certainly does not mean that the scripts will support an encourage it either.
EDIT: Also, everything Jubin said.
So because people use roleplaying methods used on other servers they have no imagination? Do you know how stupid that sounds? People should be able to roleplay however they want as long as it doesn't break any server rules in the process. Limiting people to your "elite" argonath style roleplay is nonsense. And just maybe I'd taken you serious if you actually roleplayed yourself by logging in more than 5 minutes a year.
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Aragorn is one of the Owners, why do you compare yourself to him? Like all the rest of us, you are just another player who is supposed to follow the basic rules of this community. Insulting others is not allowed.
Mhm, looks whos talking.
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When I talk with people, I want as little /em and /me as possible cause it feels like playing with dolls. I want the real deal. If u wanna shoot me, just do it without all that describing shit. It's good enough with regular /l talking for me.
Unfortunately people have decided that that's dm.
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When I talk with people, I want as little /em and /me as possible cause it feels like playing with dolls. I want the real deal. If u wanna shoot me, just do it without all that describing shit. It's good enough with regular /l talking for me.
Unfortunately people have decided that that's dm.
Yes, you have to /me quickly moves his arm towards his back extending his 4 fingers and 1 thumb to grab hold of the wooden part of his AK47 before pushes it upwards so that the strap goes over his head and then puts the gun into an aiming position holding it with both hands moving his one index finger close towards the trigger so that he is ready to fire the bullets. :D
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4 fingers and 1 thumb
Thought the thumb was a finger too, but it seems I was wrong all the time :jackson:
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Thought the thumb was a finger too, but it seems I was wrong all the time :jackson:
It's not a finger! :gand:
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It's not a finger! :gand:
So you're telling me a thumb is a toe?
Grammatically thumb=finger.
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So you're telling me a thumb is a toe?
Grammatically thumb=finger.
No a thumb is a thumb, it's a body part of it's own and can't really be linked to a toe, except maybe the similarities it shares with the big toe from when we were all apes and our toes were more like fingers (and big toe was more like a thumb) used for climbing tree's. :)
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Yes, you have to /me quickly moves his arm towards his back extending his 4 fingers and 1 thumb to grab hold of the wooden part of his AK47 before pushes it upwards so that the strap goes over his head and then puts the gun into an aiming position holding it with both hands moving his one index finger close towards the trigger so that he is ready to fire the bullets. :D
Yes. The other player can go afk for 5 minutes waiting for you to get ready to fire a bullet.
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I wonder what makes you think that you're the authority to decide what is "correct role-play" and what is not. Also what's up with all the rude remarks? I find your 'oldskool 2008 mta:vc hipster wow omg no scripts how indie' mentality absurd too, but you don't see me calling you "stupid or mentally challenged" now, do you?
IMHO, as long as the server rules are abided, a player should be allowed to role-play any way they prefer, and any attempt to role-play should be appreciated no matter in what fashion it is done.
Well said Yuri.
Try saying to Aragorn what you just said to me
It doesn't matter who you are, you have no right to insult people. Period.
Do you love this community or not?
People can suggest ideas, roleplay like one of those "RL-RP" servers and still love this community or am I wrong?
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People can suggest ideas, roleplay like one of those "RL-RP" servers and still love this community or am I wrong?
I thought people already got over his elitism and moved on. Can't you tell?
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When I talk with people, I want as little /em and /me as possible cause it feels like playing with dolls. I want the real deal. If u wanna shoot me, just do it without all that describing shit. It's good enough with regular /l talking for me.
Unfortunately people have decided that that's dm.
I've never seen people irl describing their actions before they kill someone.So you're right Mr.Svensson.
Oh,and topis of this type always have the same endings.
The creator gets banned or targeted by the HIGH :weed: staff.The request gets taken down.People realise that they wasted their time.Admins win. :bananarock: :bananav:
I don't get it how admins and players are like in some kind of silent war.They both hate each other.This whole community (argo) is filled with hate.I thought in a community people should like each other and help each other.But in here admins ban the old players that discuss about the server's problems,they're not polite at all.
Plus that the way that admins use to solve problems is FUCKED UP! I mean whenever they see an arguement they don't try to be polite and solve the problem by discussing with them,instead they kick or ban the fuck out of them and they leave a funny & provoking comment at the ban/kick reason.How the fuck will a kick/warn/ban make u calm down ? It will just make you angrier (if that''s how u spell it,but i dont give a fuck since this is not an english class.mkay) and it will make you hate the admin that banned you and will lead to other arguements on the future,where at the end admins always win.
I went off topic but I had to say that. :gand:
BTW did you notice that this emotion is duplicated ? :cry: :( .Lel
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No a thumb is a thumb, it's a body part of it's own and can't really be linked to a toe, except maybe the similarities it shares with the big toe from when we were all apes and our toes were more like fingers (and big toe was more like a thumb) used for climbing tree's. :)
Okay, it is true that a thumb has two joints and other fingers have two, it's just.. it's strange to point out such a thing, maybe you watched enough of the wiggles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae7psmRHRts) to prove me wrong, but when reffering to a hand nobody points out four finger and a thumb, it is perfectly normal to say a hand has five fingers. If we are going to point out each finger why not call it; Thumb, index, forefinger, middle finger, ring finger and pinky, or why not just use the medical terms; Pollex, digitus secundus manus, digitus tertius, digitus medius, digitus annularis, diginus minimus manus. Even in medical terms the count starts with thumb(Pollex) and the next is the index finger which goes by (digitus (secundus meaning second) manus.
If you are reffering to joints in our fingers, sure, it's a thumb, but a palm has five fingers. Flexible thumbs are what differs us from animals, that's why people don't reffer to them as a seperate body part.
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Aragorn is one of the Owners, why do you compare yourself to him? Like all the rest of us, you are just another player who is supposed to follow the basic rules of this community. Insulting others is not allowed.
Interesting how you dodge my arguments by diverting it to criticism of me. I'm not an Owner, but what I do have in common with Aragorn is that I actually love and give a damn about this community enough to not sit back and relax while people come here and try to corrupt it into something the developers did not intend it to be at all. Seeing from your response though, I don't know if the same would be true for you.
So because people use roleplaying methods used on other servers they have no imagination? Do you know how stupid that sounds? People should be able to roleplay however they want as long as it doesn't break any server rules in the process. Limiting people to your "elite" argonath style roleplay is nonsense. And just maybe I'd taken you serious if you actually roleplayed yourself by logging in more than 5 minutes a year.
"So because some racists think white people are better than black people, they have no decency? Do you know how stupid that sounds? People should be able to express their views however they want as long as they aren't killing anyone in the process."
I actually thought your post had some semblance of a point until its last sentence. Seeing how outdated you are about current events, 1.) go learn how to observe others better first, 2.) look up a dictionary and see the difference between "allow" and "support", then feel free to restate your arguments.
I thought people already got over his elitism and moved on. Can't you tell?
More unsubstantiated posts. Why am I not surprised to see this from someone who takes every opportunity he can get to make the community and its developers look like shit?
Hard to believe many of these people still do not know the real reasons why the developers are in charge of making decisions, while they are not.
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Okay, it is true that a thumb has two joints and other fingers have two, it's just.. it's strange to point out such a thing, maybe you watched enough of the wiggles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae7psmRHRts) to prove me wrong, but when reffering to a hand nobody points out four finger and a thumb, it is perfectly normal to say a hand has five fingers. If we are going to point out each finger why not call it; Thumb, index, forefinger, middle finger, ring finger and pinky, or why not just use the medical terms; Pollex, digitus secundus manus, digitus tertius, digitus medius, digitus annularis, diginus minimus manus. Even in medical terms the count starts with thumb(Pollex) and the next is the index finger which goes by (digitus (secundus meaning second) manus.
The English word "finger" has two senses, even in the context of appendages of a single typical human hand:
Any of the five digits.
Any of the five terminal members of the hand, especially those other than the thumb.
Linguistically, it appears that the original sense was the broader of these two: penkwe-ros (also rendered as penqrós) was, in the inferred Proto-Indo-European language, a suffixed form of penkwe (or penqe), which has given rise to many Indo-European-family words (tens of them defined in English dictionaries) that involve or flow from concepts of fiveness.
The thumb shares the following with each of the other four fingers:
Having a skeleton of phalanges, joined by hinge-like joints that provide flexion toward the palm of the hand
Having a "back" surface that features hair and a nail, and a hairless palm-of-the-hand side with fingerprint ridges instead
The thumb contrasts with each of the other four by being the only digit that:
Is opposable to the other four fingers
Has two phalanges rather than three
Has greater breadth in the distal phalanx than in the proximal phalanx
Is attached to such a mobile metacarpus (which produces most of the opposability)
and hence the etymology of the word: "tum" is Proto-Indo-European for "swelling" (cf "tumour" and "thigh") since the thumb is the stoutest of the fingers.
Opposition and apposition
A bonobo "fishing" for termites, an example of incomplete/"untrue" opposition.[2]
In humans, opposition and apposition are two movements unique to the thumb but these words are not synonyms:
Primatologists and hand research pioneers J. Napier and P. Napier defined opposition as: "A movement by which the pulp surface of the thumb is placed squarely in contact with - or diametrically opposite to - the terminal pads of one or all of the remaining digits." For this true, pulp-to-pulp opposition to be possible, the thumb must rotate about its long axis (at the carpometacarpal joint).[3] Arguably, this definition was chosen to underline what is unique to the human thumb.
Anatomists and other researchers focused exclusively on human anatomy, on the other hand, tend to elaborate this definition in various ways and, consequently, there are hundreds of definitions.[4] Some anatomists[5] restrict opposition to when the thumb is approximated to the fifth digit (little finger) and refer to other approximations between the thumb and other digits as apposition. To anatomists, this makes sense as two intrinsic hand muscles are named for this specific movement (the opponens pollicis and opponens digiti minimi respectively).
Other researchers use another definition,[4] referring to opposition-apposition as the transition between flexion-abduction and extension-adduction; the side of the distal thumb phalanx thus approximated to the palm or the hand's radial side (side of index finger) during apposition and the pulp or "palmar" side of the distal thumb phalanx approximated to either the palm or other digits during opposition.
Moving a limb back to its neutral position is called reposition and a rotary movement is referred to as circumduction.
Human anatomy
Skeleton
The skeleton of the thumb consists of the first metacarpal bone which articulates proximally with the carpus at the carpometacarpal joint and distally with the proximal phalanx at the metacarpophalangeal joint. This latter bone articulates with the distal phalanx at the interphalangeal joint. Additionally, there are two sesamoid bones at the metacarpophalangeal joint.
Muscles
The muscles of the thumb can be compared to guy-wires supporting a flagpole; tension from these muscular guy-wires must be provided in all directions to maintain stability in the articulated column formed by the bones of the thumb. Because this stability is actively maintained by muscles rather than by articular constraints, most muscles attached to the thumb tend to be active during most thumb motions.[6]
The muscles acting on the thumb can be divided into two groups: The extrinsic hand muscles, with their muscle bellies located in the forearm, and the intrinsic hand muscles, with their muscles bellies located in the hand proper.[7]
Extrinsic
Flexor pollicis longus (left) and deep muscles of dorsal forearm (right)
A ventral forearm muscle, the flexor pollicis longus (FPL) originates on the anterior side of the radius distal to the radial tuberosity and from the interosseous membrane. It passes through the carpal tunnel in a separate tendon sheath, after which it lies between the heads of the flexor pollicis brevis. It finally attaches onto the base of the distal phalanx of the thumb. It is innervated by the anterior interosseus branch of the median nerve (C7-C8)[8]
Three dorsal forearm muscles act on the thumb:
The abductor pollicis longus (APL) originates on the dorsal sides of both the ulna and the radius, and from the interosseous membrane. Passing through the first tendon compartment, it inserts to the base of the first metacarpal bone. A part of the tendon reaches the trapezium, while another fuses with the tendons of the extensor pollicis brevis and the abductor pollicis brevis. Except for abducting the hand, it flexes the hand towards the palm and abducts it radially. It is innervated by the deep branch of the radial nerve (C7-C8).[9]
The extensor pollicis longus (EPL) originates on the dorsal side of the ulna and the interosseous membrane. Passing through the third tendon compartment, it is inserted onto the base of the distal phalanx of the thumb. It uses the dorsal tubercle on the lower extremity of the radius as a fulcrum to extend the thumb and also dorsiflexes and abducts the hand at the wrist. It is innervated by the deep branch of the radial nerve (C7-C8).[9]
The extensor pollicis brevis (EPB) originates on the ulna distal to the abductor pollicis longus, from the interosseus membrane, and from the dorsal side of the radius. Passing through the first tendon compartment together with the abductor pollicis longus, it is attached to the base of the proximal phalanx of the thumb. It extends the thumb and, because of its close relationship to the long abductor, also abducts the thumb. It is innervated by the deep branch of the radial nerve (C7-T1).[9]
The tendons of the extensor pollicis longus and extensor pollicis brevis form what is known as the anatomical snuff box (an indentation on the lateral aspect of the thumb at its base) The radial artery can be palpated anteriorly at the wrist(not in the snuffbox).
Intrinsic
Thenar (left) and dorsal interossei (right) muscles
There are three thenar muscles:
The abductor pollicis brevis (APB) originates on the scaphoid tubercle and the flexor retinaculum. It inserts to the radial sesamoid bone and the proximal phalanx of the thumb. It is innervated by the median nerve (C8-T1).[10]
The flexor pollicis brevis (FPB) has two heads. The superficial head arises on the flexor retinaculum, while the deep head originates on three carpal bones: the trapezium, trapezoid, and capitate. The muscle is inserted onto the radial sesamoid bone of the metacarpophalangeal joint. It acts to flex, adduct, and abduct the thumb, and is therefore also able to oppose the thumb. The superficial head is innervated by the median nerve, while the deep head is innervated by the ulnar nerve (C8-T1).[10]
The opponens pollicis originates on the tubercle of the trapezium and the flexor retinaculum. It is inserted onto the radial side of the first metacarpal. It opposes the thumb and assists in adduction. It is innervated by the median nerve.[10]
Other muscles involved are:
The adductor pollicis also has two heads. The transversal head originates along the entire third metacarpal bone, while the oblique head originates on the carpal bones proximal to the third metacarpal. The muscle is inserted onto the ulnar sesamoid bone of the metacarpophalangeal joint. It adducts the thumb, and assists in opposition and flexion. It is innervated by the deep branch of the ulnar nerve (C8-T1).[10]
The first dorsal interosseous, one of the central muscles of the hand, extends from the base of the thumb metacarpal to the radial side of the proximal phalanx of the index finger
If you are reffering to joints in our fingers, sure, it's a thumb, but a palm has five fingers. Flexible thumbs are what differs us from animals, that's why people don't reffer to them as a seperate body part.
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Is this a biology class or what ?
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Woah someone copied a wiki page, how original and informative..
Did you even read my comment? I mean.. if I didn't have a swedish friend I would be wondering about the avrage IQ of that place..
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Did you even read my comment? I mean.. if I didn't have a swedish friend I would be wondering about the avrage IQ of that place..
In Sweden's defense, it's actually an awesome place that's doing better off than most of the world. :poke:
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Woah someone copied a wiki page, how original and informative..
Did you even read my comment? I mean.. if I didn't have a swedish friend I would be wondering about the avrage IQ of that place..
Dude It's a joke. Had no idea you were taking a discussion about thumbs seriously.
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In Sweden's defense, it's actually an awesome place that's doing better off than most of the world. :poke:
The sad part where on the outside I love it but than my friends tells me how it actually is in there :/
Dude It's a joke. Had no idea you were taking a discussion about thumbs seriously.
NIG PLS! I have a major in thumbing. If you need to know about thumbs I'm the man to ask, I studied this shit on the internet for ten whole minutes, bish pls. Get on my lvl.
420.
U kid bout' thumbs on my turf again, ima bust a cap in yo ass' feel ma chub nub?
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The sad part where on the outside I love it but than my friends tells me how it actually is in there :/
NIG PLS! I have a major in thumbing. If you need to know about thumbs I'm the man to ask, I studied this shit on the internet for ten whole minutes, bish pls. Get on my lvl.
420.
U kid bout' thumbs on my turf again, ima bust a cap in yo ass' feel ma chub nub?
sorri sir, thumbs up to u.
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sorri sir, thumbs up to u.
U mean fingers up..
#SWAG
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The sad part where on the outside I love it but than my friends tells me how it actually is in there :/
A lot of people hate / dislike their countries all over the world, but as someone whose country has overflowing jails instead of having to close them due to lack of prisoners, I would say they are well off compared. :neutral2:
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A lot of people hate / dislike their countries all over the world, but as someone whose country has overflowing jails instead of having to close them due to lack of prisoners, I would say they are well off compared. :neutral2:
As someone from a country that keeps voting for ministers that steal our money and run to a different country.. I feel you.
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(http://i.imgur.com/8U7HNek.jpg)
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:poke:
This emoticon doesn't exist anymore, sir.
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This emoticon doesn't exist anymore, sir.
(http://lifegivingwater.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/anakin1.jpg)
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Woah someone copied a wiki page, how original and informative..
Did you even read my comment? I mean.. if I didn't have a swedish friend I would be wondering about the avrage IQ of that place..
Sir, Swedens IQ is higher than many countries.
Dude It's a joke. Had no idea you were taking a discussion about thumbs seriously.
Look Lustig, if you cannot appreciate how critical a discussion about thumbs is then you need to leave, just go okay?
I have a major in thumbing.
Look Mr Major Sir, I recall you saying thumbs had 2 joints just like fingers, when actually thumbs have 2 joints and fingers have 3, so clearly you have no major in thumbing, but maybe have a major in being a major liar. Good job major.
#SWAG
I didn't know you were Scottish..
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/44504581.jpg)
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Look Mr Major Sir, I recall you saying thumbs had 2 joints just like fingers, when actually thumbs have 2 joints and fingers have 3, so clearly you have no major in thumbing, but maybe have a major in being a major liar. Good job major.
Well you aren't the smartest cookie in the jar now are you? (http://i.imgur.com/BzLvY5H.png)
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Well you aren't the smartest cookie in the jar now are you?
That just doesn't make sense.
Sharpest tool in the shed - Makes sense
Brightest bulb in the room - Makes sense
Smartest cookie in the jar - No..
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That just doesn't make sense.
Sharpest tool in the shed - Makes sense
Brightest bulb in the room - Makes sense
Smartest cookie in the jar - No..
Actually the Sharpest tool would make sense in Mikals case because he is one.
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Well you aren't the smartest cookie in the jar now are you? (http://i.imgur.com/BzLvY5H.png)
Oh sorry if I'm not at your level of unintelligence that could possibly lead me to know what thumbing was.. I thought you were relating to the thumb conversation. :)
Actually the Sharpest tool would make sense in Mikals case because he is one.
Yes, I am the sharpest tool in the box. :)
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"So because some racists think white people are better than black people, they have no decency? Do you know how stupid that sounds? People should be able to express their views however they want as long as they aren't killing anyone in the process."
I actually thought your post had some semblance of a point until its last sentence. Seeing how outdated you are about current events, 1.) go learn how to observe others better first, 2.) look up a dictionary and see the difference between "allow" and "support", then feel free to restate your arguments.
Are you seriously comparing roleplaying methods in the game with skin color, racism and murder? It's hard to take you serious.
And are you saying that you were not shitting on roleplayers all the time while you were not even actively playing, at all?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sRJ2Cm32kM :v:
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Does Argonath not supporting IC/OOC necessarily imply that they are totally against it, and that it is disallowed? Are we going to begin the IC/OOC Holocaust sometime soon?
Godwin's law, had to do it.
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Nice to see you denying insults..
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Are you seriously comparing roleplaying methods in the game with skin color, racism and murder? It's hard to take you serious.
And are you saying that you were not shitting on roleplayers all the time while you were not even actively playing, at all?
In addition to saying that you are outdated on current events, what racism actually has in common with roleplay preference is that it is the view of a person. While you have the right to be racist and think that X-skinned people are superior to Y-skinned people, don't expect to walk into a place where racism is frowned upon and have the inhabitants support and help you spread your views.
Now, do you understand which fact of Argonath I was pointing at with that analogy or do I have to spell it out for you?
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/em added. Please lock.
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/em added under the circumstance that it's used for what it's intended for, any misuse will result in removal.