Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: [NP]Monte Montague on January 02, 2014, 05:18:37 pm
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Hi,
I think that Fireman that are AFK online create unfairness.
I heard per mission the max payout is determined by how many firemen are online.
So this makes me think if there are 2 firemen and 3 firemen AFK, the payouts are max $5k but when there is only 1 fireman online, his (was me once) max payout for a whole mission is less, even when he puts out like 25+ sources.
What do you think?
Just 20 mins ago, I had to go somewhere and Omar tell me stay AFK so they will get $5k max payout but I chose to /q. there was an AFK fireman online anyway so the actual max payout for a mission would be $4k, and $5k when If I was alt tabbed / AFK.
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Someone complains about "unfairness" when he works as a fireman and some AFK people might actually helped him get a max payout of $5K (which for the record, is already heavily nerfed)? I've seen a lot of complaints, but this one's new...
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Why some of you voted No?
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Yes they hog fire engines and make the player list look messy with too much dark red!
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For someone from England with English as a native language, I wonder how you can make a poll with "showned". :rolleyes:
Yes they hog fire engines and make the player list look messy with too much dark red!
I don't know how long I've been on hiatus, but when I left, players were making idea topics that included adding more player name colors, which would have messed up the chat too. :gand:
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For someone from England with English as a native language, I wonder how you can make a poll with "showned". :rolleyes:
His age.
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His age.
Gandalf is twice as old but I don't see him having dementia problems :D
Jest aside, Monte, if you want more serious and sensible responses then you should have considered making a more sensible topic.
Or better yet, ask yourself if making topics for every single damn complaint is actually the best thing.
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For someone from England with English as a native language, I wonder how you can make a poll with "showned". :rolleyes:
I don't know how long I've been on hiatus, but when I left, players were making idea topics that included adding more player name colors, which would have messed up the chat too. :gand:
1. It's spelt colour!
2. What is this? Rainbow world? Psh.
His age.
Well he told me he was 19 and in uni.. :lol:
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Are you honestly going to complain about players now being AFK? What's next? Complaining about them driving too slowly?
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Complaining about them driving too slowly?
Theres no need to worry about that, the average fireman uses un-obvious speed hacks or other things like cruise control to get to missions before everyone else. :lol:
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Monte, can you just create a topic called "Monte's complain corner". Tired of reading a new one everyday. If you could also make a link to older ones for reference. Oh and top of that can you actually be productive? The only one with any productive nature is when I directly asked you to provide something. Most of these are just rants.
On the topic; I personally don't know the script so I can't tell you how accurate your statement is. However, if it is true then certainly if a fireman is in LS and the fire in lets say SF and they are AFK or not clearly participating then they shouldn't get any pay or degrade the payment of others. That's just common sense.
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They take all the fire trucks!
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Are you honestly going to complain about players now being AFK? What's next? Complaining about them driving too slowly?
HAHAA made me literally lol! :rofl:
Monte, can you just create a topic called "Monte's complain corner". Tired of reading a new one everyday. If you could also make a link to older ones for reference. Oh and top of that can you actually be productive? The only one with any productive nature is when I directly asked you to provide something. Most of these are just rants.
Agreed
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The server desperately needs as much money as possible dumped into the player economy as soon as possible.
Anything that helps that happen is a good thing.
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The server desperately needs as much money as possible dumped into the player economy as soon as possible.
Anything that helps that happen is a good thing.
what
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what
He said...
The server desperately needs as much money as possible dumped into the player economy as soon as possible.
Anything that helps that happen is a good thing.
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Someone complains about "unfairness" when he works as a fireman and some AFK people might actually helped him get a max payout of $5K (which for the record, is already heavily nerfed)? I've seen a lot of complaints, but this one's new...
He requested me one time to be fireman so he gets more money LOL...
Monte, can you just create a topic called "Monte's complain corner". Tired of reading a new one everyday. If you could also make a link to older ones for reference. Oh and top of that can you actually be productive? The only one with any productive nature is when I directly asked you to provide something. Most of these are just rants.
On the topic; I personally don't know the script so I can't tell you how accurate your statement is. However, if it is true then certainly if a fireman is in LS and the fire in lets say SF and they are AFK or not clearly participating then they shouldn't get any pay or degrade the payment of others. That's just common sense.
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what
RS5 has / is finishing the parts needed to run a functional economy, only one thing is missing... money. Once you introduce that to the player base, the rest will follow. Have you already taken Economics?
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what
More money in circulation is a good thing.
More firemen online means that the missions give more money overall, which means more money enters circulation.
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IMO it should determine the payout from the amount of firemen participating in the mission (aka extinguishing fires).
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I don't understand why a fireman's main ambition is to earn money, the department should focus on creating role play scenarios and improving communications with other agencies. What I actually saw was people abusing the new ladder system, car jacking each other, crashing around the light post and acting unprofessional. When the fire alarm rang, no one communicated the location of the fire over the radio, the medical staff was ignored when he attempted to speak to the FD. I hope the current ARFD Officials talk about these types issues with their staff and teach them how to act, implement some regulations etc...
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I don't understand why a fireman's main ambition is to earn money, the department should focus on creating role play scenarios and improving communications with other agencies. What I actually saw was people abusing the new ladder system, car jacking each other, crashing around the light post and acting unprofessional. When the fire alarm rang, no one communicated the location of the fire over the radio, the medical staff was ignored when he attempted to speak to the FD. I hope the current ARFD Officials talk about these types issues with their staff and teach them how to act, implement some regulations etc...
Because it is currently very much the only way to earn money.
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I don't understand why a fireman's main ambition is to earn money, the department should focus on creating role play scenarios and improving communications with other agencies. What I actually saw was people abusing the new ladder system, car jacking each other, crashing around the light post and acting unprofessional. When the fire alarm rang, no one communicated the location of the fire over the radio, the medical staff was ignored when he attempted to speak to the FD. I hope the current ARFD Officials talk about these types issues with their staff and teach them how to act, implement some regulations etc...
Utopia
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I hope the current ARFD Officials talk about these types issues with their staff and teach them how to act, implement some regulations etc...
We would have done that very long ago, the truth is - we hardly have any control on unofficial ARFD firemen, that is, volunteer firefighters. The managment of Argonath has not given us any authority over them, which means our command staff can handle only people who are official SAFD members.
Regards,
Alfred Monroe
SAFD Medical Trainee
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We would have done that very long ago, the truth is - we hardly have any control on unofficial ARFD firemen
This. This is one of the contributing factors to the chaotic nature of fire duty; lack of a dedicated overseeing body that exercises central control (with authority). At least when cop was the most lucrative scripted job, ARPD (still) could copban those who did not follow duty regulations, in addition to server rules.
The admins are there to stop people who use fire duty's tools to harm others and abuse the rules, but unless management changes regulations so as to force a smoother fire duty, even admins can hardly do anything about the self-centered and chaotic nature of fire duty.
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This. This is one of the contributing factors to the chaotic nature of fire duty; lack of a dedicated overseeing body that exercises central control (with authority). At least when cop was the most lucrative scripted job, ARPD (still) could copban those who did not follow duty regulations, in addition to server rules.
The admins are there to stop people who use fire duty's tools to harm others and abuse the rules, but unless management changes regulations so as to force a smoother fire duty, even admins can hardly do anything about the self-centered and chaotic nature of fire duty.
Exactly.
Oh, and by the way, I back up what Teddy said. You keep posting all of these topics and none of these are actually productive and most of them are plain troll intented, just like your in-game behaviour. Can't you notice that most people in this community are annoyed by you? Your constant harrassing of people just that you can have some fun? Your constant nonsense in public chat? I'm sorry for this outburst, but someone had to say it.
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Exactly.
Oh, and by the way, I back up what Teddy said. You keep posting all of these topics and none of these are actually productive and most of them are plain troll intented, just like your in-game behaviour. Can't you notice that most people in this community are annoyed by you? Your constant harrassing of people just that you can have some fun? Your constant nonsense in public chat? I'm sorry for this outburst, but someone had to say it.
Believe me, he knows! He's a great guy tho.
IMO it should determine the payout from the amount of firemen participating in the mission (aka extinguishing fires).
I agree 100% with you.
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Can't you notice that most people in this community are annoyed by you? Your constant harrassing of people just that you can have some fun?
You're calling out JDC on this, but you defended SugarD earlier in that other thread when Abraham did the same?
What's wrong with you?
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You're calling out JDC on this, but you defended SugarD earlier in that other thread when Abraham did the same?
What's wrong with you?
What I said was directed at Monte, not at JDC..
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What I said was directed at Monte, not at JDC..
You should probably be clearer about that before posting things that aren't true.
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Send your firefighting-related complaints here:
http://arfd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?board=15.0
As for player-related complaints in SA:MP, send them here:
http://arfd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0
All script-related complaints in SA:MP can be sent here:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?board=126.0
All script-related bugs in SA:MP may be sent to this location:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?board=295.0
I don't have much else to say here, considering this is the wrong place to complain about people misusing their Fire Duty job in SA:MP when no one wants to report the individuals (http://arfd.argonathrpg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1900.0) for it...
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lack of a dedicated overseeing body that exercises central control (with authority).
I can tell you from my own experience that this works, though I never had to use any authority or extra scripts to achieve this. Simply being at the FD every day and organizing players through various activities is what helps me run the SFFD on MTA (well, that, and some other ideas), and it keeps everyone happy. Not sure how it’d apply on SA-MP though, as fire mission systems share very little similarity.
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as fire mission systems share very little similarity.
It works to an extent where it ONLY works if EVERYONE agrees to co-operate and not be stingy for few extra dollars.
(well, that, and some other ideas)
That and being member of the staff, I'm sure :P people see you more of an authority than if a regular player attempts the same. Though if the regular player has enough leadership in their bones, they can achieve great things as well.
The problem comes from the fact that maintaining such things without having any script support and just player support is that often it will dissolve as soon as the player(s) who are strongly working for it log off. Sure, after certain time it could turn into something that everyone knows is going on. Wish there was more time in the world to achieve this, however. All good things come to those who wait, though.
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I can tell you from my own experience that this works, though I never had to use any authority or extra scripts to achieve this. Simply being at the FD every day and organizing players through various activities is what helps me run the SFFD on MTA (well, that, and some other ideas), and it keeps everyone happy. Not sure how it’d apply on SA-MP though, as fire mission systems share very little similarity.
People tend to listen to strong figures even if they do not issue a direct order, as their influence as individuals has power on its own. The problem with FD on SA:MP is a lack of just that, and knowing the nature of the server, the ideal would be a central overseeing body a la ARPD. Players respond to authority that has sharp fangs it can bare if it needs to.
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Even if the players don't want to RP during the real missions, the ARFD should organize RP ones in order to captivate the interest among the FD while they wait for a real one.
Lead by example right?
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At this point it's not even about proper RP of /me takes out a hose, as much as it is the roleplay of being an actual fireman who works together with others.
That said, call me silly, but I prefer that kind of roleplay over "/me takes out a long hose which he unwinds, carefully making sure there are no means for it to get blocked", 'cos honestly, I don't care, I want to play with you, not read about you using an axe to cut through a door that is burning up and is really, really dangerous.
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That and being member of the staff, I'm sure :P people see you more of an authority than if a regular player attempts the same.
Part that, part this:
People tend to listen to strong figures even if they do not issue a direct order, as their influence as individuals has power on its own. The problem with FD on SA:MP is a lack of just that, and knowing the nature of the server, the ideal would be a central overseeing body a la ARPD. Players respond to authority that has sharp fangs it can bare if it needs to.
I think presence is the key here. Be there long enough and often enough, and people will notice you and appreciate your effort.
Also, "other ideas" that I referred to in my previous post are really other ideas: working tightly with the PD on matters of public safety, roleplaying with civilians, and introducing new players to our scripts, and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
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I think presence is the key here. Be there long enough and often enough, and people will notice you and appreciate your effort.
Also, "other ideas" that I referred to in my previous post are really other ideas: working tightly with the PD on matters of public safety, roleplaying with civilians, and introducing new players to our scripts, and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
It feels like a kindergarden to me , I am not supposed to shout at them to stop playing with ladders and come lets go do something more fun, they prefer standing at FD playing with fire trucks and ladders untill next mission
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It feels like a kindergarden to me , I am not supposed to shout at them to stop playing with ladders and come lets go do something more fun
But playing with ladders is fun. :)
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The problem with FD on SA:MP is a lack of just that...Players respond to authority that has sharp fangs it can bare if it needs to.
Excuse me, but who are you to say the FD lacks leadership? This is a problem of the players themselves, not who leads them. These are mostly regulars from the community who are choosing to purposely ignore higher ranks, not new players who have no idea who to turn to.
Even if the players don't want to RP during the real missions, the ARFD should organize RP ones in order to captivate the interest among the FD while they wait for a real one.
Lead by example right?
This is already done quite often. The problem is that most new players don't understand how to join in, although we try our best to show them the way. As for regulars...well, that one is pretty self-explanatory since we wouldn't be having this conversation if they wanted to roleplay to begin with. :P
But playing with ladders is fun. :)
You may enjoy this game (http://www.amazon.com/Hasbro-4555-S5-Chutes-Ladders/dp/B00000DMF6) more then.
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Excuse me, but who are you to say the FD lacks leadership? This is a problem of the players themselves, not who leads them. These are mostly regulars from the community who are choosing to purposely ignore higher ranks, not new players who have no idea who to turn to.
Exactly reinforcing my point, you just stated that the ARFD does not command obedience here. That, in effect, reduces it to some kind of guidance committee rather than a strong leadership body. Have you tried asking yourself why those "the ARPD can command those mostly regulars who purposely ignore higher ranks" while you cannot? You still have not shown us where the sharp fangs are.
I'm not here to destroy the ARFD, and you have always known me to be on the side of the government agencies. I'm here to discuss and address why you cannot control this problem yourselves.
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Exactly reinforcing my point, you just stated that the ARFD does not command obedience here. That, in effect, reduces it to some kind of guidance committee rather than a strong leadership body. Have you tried asking yourself why those "the ARPD can command those mostly regulars who purposely ignore higher ranks" while you cannot? You still have not shown us where the sharp fangs are.
I'm not here to destroy the ARFD, and you have always known me to be on the side of the government agencies. I'm here to discuss and address why you cannot control this problem yourselves.
You completely misinterpreted what I said. I said I don't have the scripted, physical power to enforce anything other than what was stated above. That has nothing to do with my leadership skills.
Also, your comparison of ARFD's rights to ARPD's is null. ARPD has the ability to copban, remove scripted rights/ranks, and other powers that ARFD does not. ARPD can also severely limit a user's abilities while still allowing them to be on duty, if necessary. ARFD does not have that power. That has absolutely nothing to do with leadership. To say that ARFD does not command obedience is ridiculous, as the players themselves who are in official divisions are not the ones causing these complaints to arise. They are obedient to my leadership regardless of rights, ranks, and scripted abilities because they enjoy the roleplay for the fun of it. Those who ignore me are often regular players who do it just for the money. Isn't that what is being argued here?
Now if everyone really wants to get personal about how I lead things, I can just go ahead and reference back to the about 10 or more topics and discussions I have created over the years where I was begging for a way to handle abusive players on Fire Duty, and was completely ignored by half the community, and ridiculed by the rest. Now, and only now, that people are feeling offended are they agreeing that something should be done. It makes me sick that I have to wait until everyone makes a big deal out of something to handle such a small problem that should have been dealt with years ago. You want someone to blame? Blame yourselves for not helping out back when this was just a tiny issue.
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You should probably be clearer about that before posting things that aren't true.
Not sure how you interpreted Alfred's post against JDC, seeing has he referred to:
- "Keep opening these topic"
- Agreed with JDC only a paragraph before
:rolleyes:
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that aren't true in my opinion
No, you don't get to do that.
You insulted somebody while apparently speaking for "most people in the community", and presented your opinions as facts when frankly what you were saying was bullshit.
Sorry, but don't be upset if somebody calls you out for doing something like that.
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ARFD is inactive and not doing anything about firemen's actions , is it because you don't have a special script?
Well you could have atleast tried to change, try to organize RPs more often because even "regulars" are not supposed to be as experienced as you are at leading people.
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ARFD is inactive and not doing anything about firemen's actions , is it because you don't have a special script?
Well you could have atleast tried to change, try to organize RPs more often because even "regulars" are not supposed to be as experienced as you are at leading people.
You are clearly making things up now.
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Ok, so what did you do since RS5 release as ARFD Chief??
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You completely misinterpreted what I said. I said I don't have the scripted, physical power to enforce anything other than what was stated above. That has nothing to do with my leadership skills.
To say that ARFD does not command obedience is ridiculous, as the players themselves who are in official divisions are not the ones causing these complaints to arise. They are obedient to my leadership regardless of rights, ranks, and scripted abilities because they enjoy the roleplay for the fun of it. Those who ignore me are often regular players who do it just for the money. Isn't that what is being argued here?
You are the one who is misinterpreting, as we are arguing the same thing. The premise I am arguing is the lack of control that official firemen (who form the official fire department) have over the rest, despite their higher ranks.
ARFD does not have a problem with commanding obedience from those in its own ranks. The problem is that it does not command obedience from the majority who are not.
Also, your comparison of ARFD's rights to ARPD's is null. ARPD has the ability to copban, remove scripted rights/ranks, and other powers that ARFD does not. ARPD can also severely limit a user's abilities while still allowing them to be on duty, if necessary. ARFD does not have that power. That has absolutely nothing to do with leadership.
I never said that a scripted punishment system is the only means of direct power, it is just a tool. Law enforcers mostly listen to the ARPD not because they have a scripted punishment system, but because they know that the ARPD will use whatever tools it has at its disposal to deal with them should they not. That knowledge gives it more power, or the fangs it can bare that can cause effects even before actually having to bite.
ARFD, on the other hand, does not have a widely-known reputation of cracking down on rogue firemen. The knowledge of a rogue that he will be dealt with by a body is a form of power for itself, something I hardly see on SA:MP for ARFD. Otherwise, there would be more threats (even from non-official firemen) for rogues over fire/emergency radio that the ARFD would take action on them. Perhaps that is the starting point you can use to address the problem.
Do you see the suggestion I am now hinting at here?
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I said I don't have the scripted, physical power to enforce anything other than what was stated above.
Most group leaders don’t have the scripted power either, and they still manage to organize their groups successfully.
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Either yes or no SAFD should be totaly recreated,like SAPD :cop:
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You are the one who is misinterpreting, as we are arguing the same thing. The premise I am arguing is the lack of control that official firemen (who form the official fire department) have over the rest, despite their higher ranks.
ARFD does not have a problem with commanding obedience from those in its own ranks. The problem is that it does not command obedience from the majority who are not.
I never said that a scripted punishment system is the only means of direct power, it is just a tool. Law enforcers mostly listen to the ARPD not because they have a scripted punishment system, but because they know that the ARPD will use whatever tools it has at its disposal to deal with them should they not. That knowledge gives it more power, or the fangs it can bare that can cause effects even before actually having to bite.
ARFD, on the other hand, does not have a widely-known reputation of cracking down on rogue firemen. The knowledge of a rogue that he will be dealt with by a body is a form of power for itself, something I hardly see on SA:MP for ARFD. Otherwise, there would be more threats (even from non-official firemen) for rogues over fire/emergency radio that the ARFD would take action on them. Perhaps that is the starting point you can use to address the problem.
Do you see the suggestion I am now hinting at here?
You still have no idea of the situation here. Threats over the radio and such have been used before. That may work fine for ARPD against new players, but this is an issue against regulars who are well aware that we can't do anything. If we threaten punishment, we get told to "**** off" back. There has also been a recurring issue with admins ignoring the reports on this, of which Gandalf even had to bring it up at a meeting once.
I love how everyone has the need to blame me and the group for these issues when it is coming from people who have been here for years and already know better...
Most group leaders don’t have the scripted power either, and they still manage to organize their groups successfully.
Those groups don't contain a part of the job that they can't control. You're either in the group or you are not. I have no control over Volunteer Firefighters, who are non-SAFD people on Fire Duty, and are the problem here.
Either yes or no SAFD should be totaly recreated,like SAPD :cop:
No. SAFD is not the issue. It is regular players playing as Volunteer Firefighters in SAFD that are causing this mess.
Ok, so what did you do since RS5 release as ARFD Chief??
I helped the Devs come up with ideas and find bugs. I showed people how the new system worked, and despite being at work IRL almost every day, I was able to find and assign new division leadership to the SAFD after several others had resigned for RL reasons. I have also worked on several regulations, and helped draft plans for building up each Station, allowing the new Battalion Chief some free reign on how he wants to do it.
So tell me...what have you done?...
As a side note, the rank is called ARFD Commissioner, not ARFD Chief. People commonly make this same mistake towards ARPD too, which creates confusion when discussing a division/Department's leadership.
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The fire department as it is now doesn't reflect your hard work , and you can't keep blaming voulenteers for it , you can set someone from SAFD to organize RPs for everyone at the department and also organize the mission so it won't be seen as a race
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The fire department as it is now doesn't reflect your hard work , and you can't keep blaming voulenteers for it , you can set someone from SAFD to organize RPs for everyone at the department and also organize the mission so it won't be seen as a race
1. Actually I can, as it is regular players in this position that are creating every single complaint I have seen so far.
2. They already do, and often get told to "**** off" when asking others to join in. It pretty much shows the attitude of the people creating these problems...
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1. Actually I can, as it is regular players in this position that are creating every single complaint I have seen so far.
2. They already do, and often get told to "**** off" when asking others to join in. It pretty much shows the attitude of the people creating these problems...
Complaints are created looking for attention thats all you can ignore them most of the times because they make no sense but sometimes complaints are created to suggest stuff that aren't related to scripts changes , and not all the voulenteers keep complaining some of them are really willing to RP try to interact with those instead of others who only see money in their eyes
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So tell me...what have you done?...
Encouraged teamwork in-game, not things on forums which your average fireman won't visit.
Works well to an extent, but I hear Conroy's adding moar stuff, hopefully that'll help the efforts.
If SAFD had a constant presence in-game, you could get more people to join it. More people who'd be like minded about teamwork and roleplay. And a snowball effect COULD be observed. Just don't expect them to stay forever and don't set high requirements, that'll do no one good. Fireman is rarely a permanent occupation for most players.
If you do not have time to do it yourself, get someone to do it for you! I'm not one to talk, sure, I haven't been IG for a week or so, but get someone who's active to lead the SAFD in your absence, cos I never saw Pulse online when I was busy helping firemen see the true path.
And once you've got enough following, attempt to get SAFD to a level SAPD is - where, by going on duty, you agree to the roleplay of following the procedures and obeying the ranked firemen or get cop(fire)banned. It's pointless when the group is inactive (it is, Jack, there's no point arguing that, if it isn't, you don't notice the presence anyway.), but whole different story when you've got a large group who wants to change the way things go.
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Complaints are created looking for attention thats all you can ignore them most of the times because they make no sense but sometimes complaints are created to suggest stuff that aren't related to scripts changes , and not all the voulenteers keep complaining some of them are really willing to RP try to interact with those instead of others who only see money in their eyes
And those Volunteers are the ones that I keep urging everyone to help teach.
Encouraged teamwork in-game...
Thank you for your efforts. It is very much appreciated.
If SAFD had a constant presence in-game, you could get more people to join it.
The problem is that we do not have enough people to create a constant presence yet. Most of that is because of the ridicule and hatred we had received over the last 5 years for simply existing.
If you do not have time to do it yourself, get someone to do it for you! I'm not one to talk, sure, I haven't been IG for a week or so, but get someone who's active to lead the SAFD in your absence, cos I never saw Pulse online when I was busy helping firemen see the true path.
He has been away for the holidays, traveling out of country. He is also the current Battalion Chief for SA:MP SAFD, which makes him the leader of the server's FD stuff under me.
And once you've got enough following, attempt to get SAFD to a level SAPD is - where, by going on duty, you agree to the roleplay of following the procedures and obeying the ranked firemen or get cop(fire)banned.
You're talking about a fight I have been fighting for five years with very little support from the majority of the community. So far only a few have been willing to help, and the help they have given to me has been priceless. (At least three of them I can think off off-hand include David_Omid, DHR.Mike, and Conroy).