Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Astaroth on February 09, 2015, 02:44:31 am

Title: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 09, 2015, 02:44:31 am
Alright so, you haven't seen me posting around much as I've been inactive lately, and unfortunately I still am due to my health issues, but nevermind that now.
What I came to discuss here is groups and families.
As most of you know, I'm not the type of guy to keep quiet if I see something that's not right.
I'll try elaborating as much as possible so everyone gets what I'm trying to say.

Your character:
Example: The biker guys. You seen those dudes RP? They're fucking awesome at it.
Their characters are BIKERS, which means: They drive freeways, drink beer and chase hookers.(Edge :P )
And the best part of it? They stick to their roleplay.
Of course, here you are free to roleplay anything you wish, which is a great thing indeed.
But what bothers me the most is, the same people who bitch about people NOT roleplaying are the people who don't roleplay, or even try to.
To me, it just looks like some people do not understand the meaning of ROLEPLAY.
You want people to roleplay? Then start by doing that yourself.
And I'm writing this from a players perspective, not an admins.
As an admin to you: Instead of suspecting or chasing down to kill a new player cause he punched you, try teaching him a thing or two.

And the families/gangs?
It's just the same everywhere, isn't it? Drugs, kills, properties, money and cars. Is that what it's all about? If you answered yes then damn, you're the one wrong.

Mafias:
You guys have ranks for a god damn reason. You're the family's boss? Then act like one.
Your family is called a bunch of DMers? Then yeah, you're the one to blame first.
You're the LEADER. If you don't want your family to do that, then TELL them, you're there to GUIDE them as a leader.
The ranks you set?
Yeah, underboss, street soldier, associate or however it goes.
To put it simple for this one aswell:
You're the leader - LEAD them. The underboss is here to help you with that. The street soldiers are the one to execute your orders, the associates are well..for whatever you decide them to be. Get creative!
What's the point of owning a bunch of cars when it will be a failure?
Yes, I understand it's just a game and we're all here to have fun. But we can't all be leaders here now, can we? Take ME for example. I don't like leadership, I just don't feel like I'm fit for leading a whole family. It's actually much responsibility you're taking by creating a family. For what I see? I, myself prefer roleplaying a street soldier over a leader. Leading sometimes sucks if you RP it properly. All you do is just gather information and put orders out. The real fun is in executing them.
And to go back a bit and mix up characters and families:
Example: Your character is a street soldier of a certain family, right?
But it's only a STREET soldier. Which means you FOLLOW orders, not GIVING them.
And as you guys call it "RPish", want it to be like that? Then make it like that.
You can't go around kidnapping and extorting people without your leaders knowledge and permission. That's just NOT how it goes ANYWHERE in a family.



Sorry but, another example I have to share:
What the fuck is up with the kidnaps and extortion? You complain about no roleplay when you're the one to kidnap someone>call 911> "hey cops I got a hostage, pay 1m or he dies." That's simply retarded.

And the cops in those situations?
You guys..ARGHHHH!!!
There's like four people on duty and they all race to the crime scene to kill/cuff a person first for what? 500$? I mean..really guys?!
Try being COPS instead. Operate, teamwork! It's actually more effective then going all by yourself.
Example: A Senior officer and five Officers are on duty.
Normally, the Senior Officer at that time is in charge of the situation. FOLLOW his orders, he's a senior officer for a reason.
He'll form a group, give you positions and orders you should follow. Only THEN, the whole thing can go the way every cop wants it to go.

That's all the time I have now. For anyone who did not get my point: I'll try being around as much as possible to set more examples of how things should actually work.
Also, I apologize for any words that might not be suitable for an admin, but then again - we're human, right? I wrote what I wrote because I simply am mad at the current situation of mostly everything.

- Astaroth.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 02:58:06 am
(http://drhurd.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/respect.jpg)

You couldn't be any more on point with RP characters and Mafia... and kidnappings... spot on.

Good post.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Axison on February 09, 2015, 03:38:53 am
Respect man, thanks for speaking up.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 09, 2015, 04:59:49 am
Thank you both.
Don't be afraid to speak your mind, guys! :)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tovenaarke on February 09, 2015, 12:51:09 pm
Teddy said it all...  :app:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: eymas on February 09, 2015, 01:35:02 pm
Teddy said it all...  :app:

Asta, I want to thank you personally as well. I too have this on my mind, yet you taking the initiative instead is better. Great post, so to say.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TiMoN on February 09, 2015, 01:35:04 pm
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif?1318992465)


i actually did read a bit, i guess well said or something


Too bad nobody will really change.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 09, 2015, 01:38:04 pm
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif?1318992465)


i actually did read a bit, i guess well said or something


Too bad nobody will really change.

Simple answer - You can fuck right off.
Complex answer - Go to school or a medical institution and have your mind checked. Show some respect towards those actually trying to make a difference and stop being such a worthless piece of shit.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 09, 2015, 01:48:08 pm
If you guys acknowledge some stuff about ROLEPLAY and don't take it as the usual bullshit excuse to kill someone (which is what RP is for many people on the server), then yeah a change will take place and you will see how much more fun you will have.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on February 09, 2015, 01:57:52 pm
This is a great and useful post. But about you being a street soldier more then a leader, well being a street soldier or something lower from the leader is very fun. But, when you are a leader you have power, your the head of the group, controlling everything.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 02:00:16 pm
I admire those who report someone's post as immature right after their own immature post. Hypocrites.

If you can't handle it don't do it yourself. Oh and enjoy your forum mute.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tovenaarke on February 09, 2015, 02:49:42 pm
[...]
Too bad nobody will really change.

This message is cleary for you :)

I'll quote, as you never going to reread the first post:

[...]
You want people to roleplay? Then start by doing that yourself.
[...]
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 03:13:27 pm
Some don't have the care or mental capacity to understand Tov, no need wasting time on those like him. Focus on those who want improvements and with that they'll see how better things are and maybe catch on :D
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 09, 2015, 03:21:35 pm
Wish this would actually make a difference.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tovenaarke on February 09, 2015, 03:31:08 pm
Some don't have the care or mental capacity to understand Tov, no need wasting time on those like him. Focus on those who want improvements and with that they'll see how better things are and maybe catch on :D
Woops sorry... I still believe in a perfect world  :D

Wish this would actually make a difference.
It does when -->
[...]
You want people to roleplay? Then start by doing that yourself.
[...]
People still cannot believe it... but it does!
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 04:00:20 pm
People make a difference.. if there's a will there's a way.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AryaN on February 09, 2015, 04:01:11 pm
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Well i want to share something which mostly happens, not only with me but i guess with most of the people.

Whenever i try to stop someone for any purpose, they take out their m4 and be like" dafuq you want puto, fu** off".
Kidding me? Can't we just have a peaceful roleplay. Even if someone gets rammed by another, they take out their weapon asks for refund and when the other party refuse it, "boom boom". Although, there is always a side-way to end up the rp. You can call cops in these type of situations or someone who is mutual friend of both to sort it out instead of shooting each other. Even if this turned into voilence, try to sort it out or just drop it there and walk away. This will not make you a cowboy, from this behavior you just proved that roleplay is not about shootout at all.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 09, 2015, 04:18:22 pm
Whenever i try to stop someone for any purpose, they take out their m4 and be like" dafuq you want puto, fu** off".
Kidding me? Can't we just have a peaceful roleplay

You're in no way right here. When you are roleplaying a gangster, you're meant to be rude. And no, there is nothing wrong with people being rude as their character is meant to be that way. A mexican gangster talking with 'sir' and 'please' would be non-rp.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 09, 2015, 04:42:31 pm
You're in no way right here. When you are roleplaying a gangster, you're meant to be rude. And no, there is nothing wrong with people being rude as their character is meant to be that way. A mexican gangster talking with 'sir' and 'please' would be non-rp.

This exactly. There is a way to roleplay a character being aggressive and there is a way to be straight up disrespectful. Figure out the line and there will be no problems.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: diddeh on February 09, 2015, 04:57:27 pm
You want people to roleplay? Then start by doing that yourself.
That only ends up with being reported for forcing roleplay :(

Nah but it's a good post really, there is some good information in there, which might change atleast some peoples way of thinking. It's good to see that atleast some people is trying to create a more roleplay friendly environment on argonath.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 09, 2015, 05:03:03 pm
Thank you all for replying, I really appreciate people that actually speak up.

And one more thing to the players:
I did state that I wrote this from a players perspective, and read through, it seems that staff members agree with me. For those who didn't read the whole post: Read it. It contains information that can be useful to YOU.
As soon as I wrote this last night, I decided to give a proper example to everyone of how it should go, and I came up with this, which hopefully - will proceed.

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=110125.0
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AryaN on February 09, 2015, 05:05:54 pm
This exactly. There is a way to roleplay a character being aggressive and there is a way to be straight up disrespectful. Figure out the line and there will be no problems.
Indeed but not everyone get this and later result into death-match.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 09, 2015, 05:40:30 pm
Indeed, and this is why I wrote this in a way, so people could understand.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: JackWhite on February 09, 2015, 05:52:35 pm
Simple answer - You can f**k right off.
Complex answer - Go to school or a medical institution and have your mind checked. Show some respect towards those actually trying to make a difference and stop being such a worthless piece of shit.
Maybe you should refer to the main post?
You guys have ranks for a god damn reason. You're the family's boss? Then act like one.
You're the LEADER. If you don't want your family to do that, then TELL them, you're there to GUIDE them as a leader.
Not thinking about leading a family, but you being a fucking asshole to people isnt exactly making people on argo act better, does it? Instead of acting all though guy towards a retard in this thread, you could have deleted the post instead. When people see leaders like YOU tell people to fuck off and call them a worthless piece of shit, they think its accepted. But if I told you to fuck off and called you a worthless piece of shit, I would have been permantly banned from the forum.

Act like a fucking leader.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: diddeh on February 09, 2015, 05:59:36 pm
Simple answer - You can f**k right off.
Complex answer - Go to school or a medical institution and have your mind checked. Show some respect towards those actually trying to make a difference and stop being such a worthless piece of shit.
That is quite ruide to be honest, is is it really necessary to use that language to forward what you have to say?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 09, 2015, 06:01:18 pm
That is quite ruide to be honest, is is it really necessary to use that language to forward what you have to say?

It is indeed, bullshit will be responded to with bullshit.  :)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: diddeh on February 09, 2015, 06:02:57 pm
It is indeed, bullshit will be responded to with bullshit.  :)
Shouldn't you act up like a administrator and perhaps remove the post instead of breaking the rules and setting a bad example for the players here?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AryaN on February 09, 2015, 06:03:55 pm
It is indeed, bullshit will be responded to with bullshit.  :)
This reminds me of Mahatma Gandhi quotes - "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind."
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Cyril on February 09, 2015, 06:40:44 pm
Shouldn't you act up like a administrator and perhaps remove the post instead of breaking the rules and setting a bad example for the players here?

A rulebreaker asking a HQ member to not break the rules...
Btw are you done multiaccounting, banevading and cheating?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: diddeh on February 09, 2015, 06:51:55 pm
A rulebreaker asking a HQ member to not break the rules...
Btw are you done multiaccounting, banevading and cheating?
Well since you aint telling him someone have to, right? ;)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Cyril on February 09, 2015, 06:53:35 pm
Well since you aint telling him someone have to, right? ;)

I won't tell a DL how to do his job, same as a player doesn't tell a staff member how to do his job.
Pretty obvious, no?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 09, 2015, 06:54:10 pm
Well since you aint telling him someone have to, right? ;)

And to think you are related to a server leader, blows my mind.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 09, 2015, 07:05:33 pm
Maybe you should refer to the main post?  Not thinking about leading a family, but you being a f**king asshole to people isnt exactly making people on argo act better, does it? Instead of acting all though guy towards a retard in this thread, you could have deleted the post instead. When people see leaders like YOU tell people to f**k off and call them a worthless piece of shit, they think its accepted. But if I told you to f**k off and called you a worthless piece of shit, I would have been permantly banned from the forum.

Act like a f**king leader.

To be honest, if you can't tell the difference between calling a person a worthless piece of shit and telling them to stop acting like a worthless piece of shit, then you may have a problem.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 09, 2015, 07:14:55 pm
Love how important this topic ended up being ... debayting weather you should, or shouldn't talk like that ... well you shouldn't, but it's stupid even talking about it, after you did it. Let's focus on the point of the topic, or simply stop posting.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: JackWhite on February 09, 2015, 07:20:26 pm
To be honest, if you can't tell the difference between calling a person a worthless piece of shit and telling them to stop acting like a worthless piece of shit, then you may have a problem.
People acting like a worthless piece of shit, is usually a worthless piece of shit, huh? And, "You can f**k right off." isnt exactly a nice sentence from a division leader is it? Pretty sure you wouldnt accept it if I said it to you?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 09, 2015, 07:23:43 pm
I wouldn't care.  :)

Now let's see it on topic.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: JackWhite on February 09, 2015, 07:28:19 pm
I wouldn't care.  :)

Now let's see it on topic.

Quote
[19:21:34] {0055FF}Bruce_McCane{FFFFFF}: (0) WOAH
[19:21:34] {0055FF}Bruce_McCane{FFFFFF}: (0) HAcker
[19:21:34] {0055FF}Bruce_McCane{FFFFFF}: (0) halp
[19:22:00] {0055FF}Jack_White.{FFFFFF}: (37) tell him to stop acting like a worthless piece of shit, after that ask him to fuck off
[19:22:19] {0055FF}Jack_White.{FFFFFF}: (37) Or the other way around, Devin knows how it works
[19:22:32] <iMarkz> (66) Jack, moderate your language please.
[19:22:46] {0055FF}Jack_White.{FFFFFF}: (37) iMarkz, tell me, is it accepted that Devin tells people EXACTLY the same on the forums
[19:22:54] {0055FF}Jack_White.{FFFFFF}: (37) but when I do here towards a hacker, I get told to moderate my language?
[19:23:21] {0055FF}Jack_White.{FFFFFF}: (37) If not, please step up into that fucking topic and be a man enough to tell him STRAIGHT up
[19:23:31] <iMarkz> (66) We do not tolerate that language, whoever those words are directed to.
[19:24:02] You have been warned by iMarkz(66) for flaming..
[19:24:02] Jack_White. was warned by iMarkz(66) for flaming.
[19:24:02] {0055FF}Jack_White.{FFFFFF}: (37) Please, tell devin to stop in the topic aswell then

Well, iMarkz would. Maybe you leaders should talk together and figure out whats okay to say and what not, because I don't wanna get banned for telling someone to fuck off.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 09, 2015, 07:29:26 pm
Well, iMarkz would. Maybe you leaders should talk together and figure out whats okay to say and what not, because I don't wanna get banned for telling someone to f**k off.

Would you like to take the boat out with the rest of the trolls?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: eymas on February 09, 2015, 07:43:19 pm
One does not respect another, another will not respect one.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 07:56:46 pm
You know Astar, you do also bring up a good point about cops as well. I know in my original reply I only mentioned mafias and such but really it extends to all areas of the server in different degrees.

Honestly it's going to take effort from all sides in order to rectify the view of "RP" within the community. There is little standard for RP so justification to do so is fairly reduced.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 09, 2015, 07:59:50 pm
You know Astar, you do also bring up a good point about cops as well. I know in my original reply I only mentioned mafias and such but really it extends to all areas of the server in different degrees.

Honestly it's going to take effort from all sides in order to rectify the view of "RP" within the community. There is little standard for RP so justification to do so is fairly reduced.
Indeed Teddy, if people want everything to improve on the "RP" thing, EVERYONE needs to start doing it, firstly for themselves, as we said - from all sides
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 08:02:31 pm
Indeed Teddy, if people want everything to improve on the "RP" thing, EVERYONE needs to start doing it, firstly for themselves, as we said - from all sides

I can understand that with all the anus sliding of pussy shotguns it can be a little discouraging to RP but as I said

if there's a will there's a way.

Just need the few to standup to improve the many
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 09, 2015, 08:06:58 pm
Very true, Teddy. I've already started something up to well, attempt encouraging ACTUAL RP between people, anyone is more then welcome to join. http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=110125.0
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 08:08:10 pm
I applaud your efforts. I just wish I was active enough to contribute to the movement forward. Unfortunately all I can be is words on a screen with my current activity.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Ben. on February 09, 2015, 09:15:19 pm
I applaud your efforts. I just wish I was active enough to contribute to the movement forward. Unfortunately all I can be is words on a screen with my current activity.
:rage:



Love the post, Asta. It's just a shame that it needs to be said!
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Abraham on February 09, 2015, 10:37:58 pm
I can understand that with all the anus sliding of pussy shotguns it can be a little discouraging to RP but as I said
Doing 20x /me's before pulling out a gun != RP.

It's just the same everywhere, isn't it? Drugs, kills, properties, money and cars. Is that what it's all about? If you answered yes then damn, you're the one wrong.
You forgot about fucking bitches.
It's all about the money n' hoes, otherwise there's no point to crime.



But what bothers me the most is, the same people who bad girl about people NOT roleplaying are the people who don't roleplay, or even try to.

Instead of suspecting or chasing down to kill a new player cause he punched you, try teaching him a thing or two.

Indeed good points.

I consider this a moan topic.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 10:42:03 pm
Doing 20x /me's before pulling out a gun != RP.

That is exactly my point. Thanks for the reiteration.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Abraham on February 09, 2015, 10:50:29 pm
That is exactly my point. Thanks for the reiteration.
I must have lost the context somewhere down the line, sorry.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: wweman14 on February 09, 2015, 11:39:32 pm
This is 100% accurate about the Mafia part. Many Mafia Families currently do not act as a real La Cosa Nostra style. The soldiers do whatever they want, they speak of crimes in public, drive sports cars, no one kick's up a piece of their earnings to the superior, it's nuts. Not all the time Mob's are in shootouts or kidnapping the enemy, it's a lot more than that. For those who are trying to do the Mafia RP, but do not know how to come across it, I'd suggest watching The Sopranos, the TV show. It's a very good representation of the American Mafia and how things work.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 09, 2015, 11:45:32 pm
Most Mafia's avoid conflict with the law as it's bad for business. They buy corrupt cops to help protect them from the legitimate. If they kidnap someone they don't call the police (see prior point) they use them to negotiate a point or money from another family or business entity.

I'd recommend watching the godfather series.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: wweman14 on February 09, 2015, 11:47:50 pm
Most Mafia's avoid conflict with the law as it's bad for business. They buy corrupt cops to help protect them from the legitimate. If they kidnap someone they don't call the police (see prior point) they use them to negotiate a point or money from another family or business entity.

I'd recommend watching the godfather series.

This is a thing I wish the high ranked Police agreed to, bribery. Most of the time, if you offer bribery and have some cops in your pocket, you get /su'ed instantly. It's not a fair RP, and cops should be more lenient when it comes to that. Godfather is also another good series to watch. Mafia isn't about killing people for the most part, it's business.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 10, 2015, 12:10:00 am
This is a thing I wish the high ranked Police agreed to, bribery. Most of the time, if you offer bribery and have some cops in your pocket, you get /su'ed instantly. It's not a fair RP, and cops should be more lenient when it comes to that. Godfather is also another good series to watch. Mafia isn't about killing people for the most part, it's business.

5k a word. I'm FBI director.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Mang on February 10, 2015, 12:19:07 am
This is a thing I wish the high ranked Police agreed to, bribery. Most of the time, if you offer bribery and have some cops in your pocket, you get /su'ed instantly. It's not a fair RP, and cops should be more lenient when it comes to that. Godfather is also another good series to watch. Mafia isn't about killing people for the most part, it's business.
Hm, the problem is, if you RP a corrupt cop, there's no way you're gonna get up there in the ranks, and most if not all high ranked SAPD members don't want to risk it as it's really not that hard for it to get leaked or investigated and that would lead to them losing their rank. Sure, there are some people that RP corrupt officers but they just keep getting copbanned, accused of trolling, they will never actually get into an influential position.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Manoni on February 10, 2015, 12:26:59 am
Tell that to jcstodds, he used to sell the confiscated weed. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on February 10, 2015, 12:32:10 am
 If approached correctly any cop can be turned into a pocket one, you just gotta know how to handle it. But let's not derail the topic. Asta has a point, Roleplay should be the core of every group on this server and I can say without a doubt that since RS5 came out, all the non-RP groups either disappeared or improved into a functional one. You don't find that much non-Roleplayers around anymore, which I'm more than happy to see.
 I'm also really grateful of all the groups that managed to have a reasonable talk and end their conflicts in the past few weeks, thank you for hearing me out(You know who you guys are).
 And to all group leaders, upcoming or ones on the top, I suggest you try working out a pyramidal structure of ranks or a horizontal line type of rank system. Either have people taking care of people under you, or have a democratic type of group in which everyone's opinion is heard out and everyone has a right to suggest and do what he wants(Like what I've been trying to achieve in the Angels of Death).
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Janar on February 10, 2015, 07:28:47 am
Tell that to jcstodds, he used to sell the confiscated weed. :rolleyes:

Not just sell it, but also gave away confiscated weed and heroin during event called "Police leak of information"... :D
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 10:53:29 am
People acting like a worthless piece of shit, is usually a worthless piece of shit, huh? And, "You can f**k right off." isnt exactly a nice sentence from a division leader is it? Pretty sure you wouldnt accept it if I said it to you?
If you can not handle direct language then you can f*ck off.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 11:15:34 am
Great post and I hope it makes some people consider how they play.

First of all do not consider anyone on server your real life enemy. You may feud with them in game, but that does not mean real life hate.

Next thing is creativity. Try to do something new, something that you never done in roleplay before. It is easy to do the same thing over and over again, but it also gets boring. To keep yourself alive, think of new things.

Kidnappings are actually boring. Everyone knows how it will go. The kidnapped person might as well go AFK because all he can do is sit still and be on PM or cb to waste time. The kidnappers call the cops and stock on weapons to kill as many as possible, and the cops get another shooting gallery. Is that really fun enough to repeat 100 times daily?

Criminals are supposed to stay away from getting caught, not to be as much wanted as possible. As for bribing cops the following. Being Russian we know a lot about cops taking bribes. But even the most corrupt cop will take offense and try to arrest you if you come up to him and ask him to take money. Be subtle and creative about it.
When asked for your drivers license, slip $20 in it (and actually send it), but without affering it as a bribe. Now the cop has two choices. Either send it back telling you accidentally put money there, or playing along. He can not /su you as you never offered him anything, yet the idea is clear. Once you know he takes small money, you can press on him. After all he will lose his job if found out. Now you as mafia have someone in the police force that must do some things like warn you if there are cops on the way to an operation. And by payng him you keep him interested as well as possibly in line to be fired.  You can make it a short play, or make it a long one where you support him getting promoted.

In the end it all comes down to having some imagination and trying something different.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kessu on February 10, 2015, 12:03:37 pm
In addition to what Gandalf noted down, ARPD cannot investigate a possibly corrupt cop from the server logs. (Atleast that should be the case :D)

So, unless someone sees you bribing or someone talked, the cop should not get caught  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tovenaarke on February 10, 2015, 12:05:02 pm
Today Rey and me were hiding for the rain... That is what I call a good start  ;)

Same moment a car passes, and a player said "BIACH" to a cop that was standing nearby us... We didn't hear you mate.. the storm was to heavy and your windows were closed! not a good start...  :D
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AlSforza on February 10, 2015, 12:09:21 pm
Excellent post,  you already know my point of view. The only thing I have to point out is that post like this have been made years ago, and nothing really changed. Lets hope that this time you, as an admin, and input some other kind of feeling in the minds of the players. Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent post like I said, and I'm not criticizing you, just didn't expect this kind of turnout hehe.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: .Diego on February 10, 2015, 12:15:42 pm
Excellent post,  you already know my point of view. The only thing I have to point out is that post like this have been made years ago, and nothing really changed. Lets hope that this time you, as an admin, and input some other kind of feeling in the minds of the players. Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent post like I said, and I'm not criticizing you, just didn't expect this kind of turnout hehe.

Ditto.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 12:25:37 pm
This exactly. There is a way to roleplay a character being aggressive and there is a way to be straight up disrespectful. Figure out the line and there will be no problems.

There is no such thing as a "straight up disrespectful" thing in RP, if people know the difference between RL and RP. Imagine if actors would take it personal to everything that is being said towards them in the movie scripts. boy oh boy...

Kidnappings are actually boring. Everyone knows how it will go. The kidnapped person might as well go AFK because all he can do is sit still and be on PM or cb to waste time. The kidnappers call the cops and stock on weapons to kill as many as possible, and the cops get another shooting gallery. Is that really fun enough to repeat 100 times daily?

A kidnap is only as boring as the kidnappers want it to be, most people just shove the victim in a room, gagged and leave them there, even recently that happened to me (You guys know who you are, take no offense, but gagging someone in a RP is just asking me to go AFK for a while).
Kidnap them but give them RP possibilities to escape, let them speak, let them interact, good God it's not that hard is it'

The main problems in here, besides the lack of RP rules which makes some RP scenarios completely moronic and weird (bad weird), is that people don't want to be on the loosing side of a RP and/or don't think that the RP is supposed to be fun for both sides and lead the RP to something that just involves fun for one party involved.

Seriously, this community could be the best RP community in both MTA and SAMP if there were actual control and rules in RP but maintaining the relaxed RP view of Argonath, make it a LIGHT RP server instead of a FREE RP server, no one's asking for a RL RP thing (which sucks donkey balls and we all know it), just simple things to keep the flow of the RP going, like not using PM to call for help, or /radio the police when you got your radio taken off in RP, or not being allowed to commit crimes openly in Pershing Square which is obvious cop baiting...

And halle-fuckin-lujah, a big AMEN and THANK YOU to the Angels of Death, Grove Street Families and 18th Street Barrio for bringing some actual decent and controlled RP aswell as VARIETY, kind of sick of Mafia vs Cop bull.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 10, 2015, 12:29:59 pm
And halle-f**kin-lujah, a big AMEN and THANK YOU to the Angels of Death, Grove Street Families and 18th Street Barrio for bringing some actual decent and controlled RP aswell as VARIETY, kind of sick of Mafia vs Cop bull.

Yes. Let these groups be a current example of what RP groups should be like.

Great points Tony :D
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 10, 2015, 12:34:40 pm
There is no such thing as a "straight up disrespectful" thing in RP, if people know the difference between RL and RP. Imagine if actors would take it personal to everything that is being said towards them in the movie scripts. boy oh boy...

Problems arise when players start to take offence to things said to them in a roleplay and that's when staff are forced to intervene which can ruin some good situations.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 12:40:12 pm
Problems arise when players start to take offence to things said to them in a roleplay.

They shouldn't, if it's strictly RP then it's towards their character and not the real them, no offense should be taken.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Daco on February 10, 2015, 12:43:49 pm
This exactly. There is a way to roleplay a character being aggressive and there is a way to be straight up disrespectful. Figure out the line and there will be no problems.

And that line would be involving real life or personal details in the dialogue, other than that it's good. (and staying out of public chat/PM etc.. which are not RP channels)
I once tried to roleplay a redneck waving the N word all the time, it didn't end well.

This exactly. There is a way to roleplay a character being aggressive and there is a way to be straight up disrespectful. Figure out the line and there will be no problems.

That's called being sensitive. If they start flipping, better leave the RP. (it's not forced)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 10, 2015, 12:49:06 pm
I would also like to point out that I have observed that lack of mental skill(?) from players to acknowledge what Argonath's vision really means leads to several issues. The most ridiculous thing is going to kidnap someone and he does " /em plz no force rp go read argonath vision "... and trust me it's a regular annoying sight.

If you don't understand how RP works then at least DO NOT open new families which you lead. I don't mean to say I'm better, but I have openned my own group after gaining some experience by serious roleplay families like Sforza and many others. You need knowledge to lead a group, because if you lack roleplaying skills and your members follow what you say.. then boom. You have a nice group of people causing trouble.

Please re-read aargonath's vision and some other important stickies at the groups and families boards, if you can't find them then PM me and I will show you.

If you are really willing to do something, it will happen. Don't be the people who post 'nothing changes, argo sux' waiting for the day everything will magically change. Roll up your sleves and get to working if you want something to change for good.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Stivi on February 10, 2015, 12:54:24 pm
Roll up your sleves and get to working if you want something to change for good.
This.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 01:37:43 pm
There is no such thing as a "straight up disrespectful" thing in RP, if people know the difference between RL and RP. Imagine if actors would take it personal to everything that is being said towards them in the movie scripts. boy oh boy...

A kidnap is only as boring as the kidnappers want it to be, most people just shove the victim in a room, gagged and leave them there, even recently that happened to me (You guys know who you are, take no offense, but gagging someone in a RP is just asking me to go AFK for a while).
Kidnap them but give them RP possibilities to escape, let them speak, let them interact, good God it's not that hard is it'

The main problems in here, besides the lack of RP rules which makes some RP scenarios completely moronic and weird (bad weird), is that people don't want to be on the loosing side of a RP and/or don't think that the RP is supposed to be fun for both sides and lead the RP to something that just involves fun for one party involved.

Seriously, this community could be the best RP community in both MTA and SAMP if there were actual control and rules in RP but maintaining the relaxed RP view of Argonath, make it a LIGHT RP server instead of a FREE RP server, no one's asking for a RL RP thing (which sucks donkey balls and we all know it), just simple things to keep the flow of the RP going, like not using PM to call for help, or /radio the police when you got your radio taken off in RP, or not being allowed to commit crimes openly in Pershing Square which is obvious cop baiting...

And halle-f**kin-lujah, a big AMEN and THANK YOU to the Angels of Death, Grove Street Families and 18th Street Barrio for bringing some actual decent and controlled RP aswell as VARIETY, kind of sick of Mafia vs Cop bull.
Once you start making up such rules they just keep piling on.
And honestly in many casesit can actually make the RP better.
I bring forward the famous case of State against the President for corruption where a certain Mr Corleone was giving testimony. In PM he received numerous offers bribing him to change his testimony multiple times. Which simply would not be possible under the rules you propose.

The problem here is indeed the idea of "winning". Winning in my opinion means everyone has had fun. If half (or all) are annoyed, everyone loses.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 01:46:37 pm
I would also like to point out that I have observed that lack of mental skill(?) from players to acknowledge what Argonath's vision really means leads to several issues. The most ridiculous thing is going to kidnap someone and he does " /em plz no force rp go read argonath vision "... and trust me it's a regular annoying sight.

If you don't understand how RP works then at least DO NOT open new families which you lead. I don't mean to say I'm better, but I have openned my own group after gaining some experience by serious roleplay families like Sforza and many others. You need knowledge to lead a group, because if you lack roleplaying skills and your members follow what you say.. then boom. You have a nice group of people causing trouble.

Please re-read aargonath's vision and some other important stickies at the groups and families boards, if you can't find them then PM me and I will show you.

If you are really willing to do something, it will happen. Don't be the people who post 'nothing changes, argo sux' waiting for the day everything will magically change. Roll up your sleves and get to working if you want something to change for good.
People who think that 'do not force roleplay' is a get-out-of-rp-free card do not understand what it means.
It is not meant as excuse not to play with others, but to ensure that people are not intimidated or bullied against their will.
for instance you give up as a criminal and want to be jailed because there is a meeting of your group, but the cop wants you to endure an hour long investigation.  In that case you have the right to get jailed as you wish, and can not be forced to sit through the investigation.
However if you get yourself in a position where you are kidnapped, you can not tell your kidnappers to let you go because you do not want to be forced. In that case, make some move that causes the kidnappers to either kill you or let you escape, and then proceed with your plans.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kalvin on February 10, 2015, 01:55:05 pm
People who think that 'do not force roleplay' is a get-out-of-rp-free card do not understand what it means.
It is not meant as excuse not to play with others, but to ensure that people are not intimidated or bullied against their will.
for instance you give up as a criminal and want to be jailed because there is a meeting of your group, but the cop wants you to endure an hour long investigation.  In that case you have the right to get jailed as you wish, and can not be forced to sit through the investigation.
However if you get yourself in a position where you are kidnapped, you can not tell your kidnappers to let you go because you do not want to be forced. In that case, make some move that causes the kidnappers to either kill you or let you escape, and then proceed with your plans.

And a pretty similar thing happened with me in last few days where Hidduh was trucking around, earning money and we tried to rob him where he said 'He's not in mood to roleplay'(get-out-of-rp-free card so that he won't get robbed or die of not complying and keeps earning money by trucking) and reported us. Then there was this admin, I don't remember his name told us not go after him as he doesn't wants to roleplay and for this my fellow partner Luke was also temp banned as he denied of not going after him.
Anyways, It's good that it's clear now :)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 10, 2015, 02:08:47 pm
People who think that 'do not force roleplay' is a get-out-of-rp-free card do not understand what it means.

This is exactly what I explained above, which is the source of lots of problems during roleplaying on the server.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 02:09:15 pm
Once you start making up such rules they just keep piling on.

There was one division that made it work, not officialy but the players themselves set  those same rules for their own RP and I saw nothing but good and fun gaming.

And honestly in many casesit can actually make the RP better.

The bad outweights the good, something that people who go ingame and RP regularly can testify.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 02:11:13 pm
There was one division that made it work, not officialy but the players themselves set  those same rules for their own RP and I saw nothing but good and fun gaming.

The bad outweights the good, something that people who go ingame and RP regularly can testify.
If people can make it work by using common snese, why do you need to make it a rule? Spread it by example, make people understand it is more fun if you do it without shortcuts.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Daco on February 10, 2015, 02:14:38 pm
And a pretty similar thing happened with me in last few days where Hidduh was trucking around, earning money and we tried to rob him where he said 'He's not in mood to roleplay'(get-out-of-rp-free card so that he won't get robbed or die of not complying and keeps earning money by trucking) and reported us. Then there was this admin, I don't remember his name told us not go after him as he doesn't wants to roleplay and for this my fellow partner Luke was also temp banned as he denied of not going after him.
Anyways, It's good that it's clear now :)

Taking the coward's way out.
RP not being forced certainly doesn't mean reporting people for insisting on doing so, I mean it's not that hard to have a quick death by not complying in character..
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: jovanca on February 10, 2015, 02:24:16 pm
There is no such thing as a "straight up disrespectful" thing in RP, if people know the difference between RL and RP. Imagine if actors would take it personal to everything that is being said towards them in the movie scripts. boy oh boy...

A kidnap is only as boring as the kidnappers want it to be, most people just shove the victim in a room, gagged and leave them there, even recently that happened to me (You guys know who you are, take no offense, but gagging someone in a RP is just asking me to go AFK for a while).
Kidnap them but give them RP possibilities to escape, let them speak, let them interact, good God it's not that hard is it'

The main problems in here, besides the lack of RP rules which makes some RP scenarios completely moronic and weird (bad weird), is that people don't want to be on the loosing side of a RP and/or don't think that the RP is supposed to be fun for both sides and lead the RP to something that just involves fun for one party involved.

Seriously, this community could be the best RP community in both MTA and SAMP if there were actual control and rules in RP but maintaining the relaxed RP view of Argonath, make it a LIGHT RP server instead of a FREE RP server, no one's asking for a RL RP thing (which sucks donkey balls and we all know it), just simple things to keep the flow of the RP going, like not using PM to call for help, or /radio the police when you got your radio taken off in RP, or not being allowed to commit crimes openly in Pershing Square which is obvious cop baiting...

And halle-f**kin-lujah, a big AMEN and THANK YOU to the Angels of Death, Grove Street Families and 18th Street Barrio for bringing some actual decent and controlled RP aswell as VARIETY, kind of sick of Mafia vs Cop bull.

I would also like to point out that I have observed that lack of mental skill(?) from players to acknowledge what Argonath's vision really means leads to several issues. The most ridiculous thing is going to kidnap someone and he does " /em plz no force rp go read argonath vision "... and trust me it's a regular annoying sight.

If you don't understand how RP works then at least DO NOT open new families which you lead. I don't mean to say I'm better, but I have openned my own group after gaining some experience by serious roleplay families like Sforza and many others. You need knowledge to lead a group, because if you lack roleplaying skills and your members follow what you say.. then boom. You have a nice group of people causing trouble.

Please re-read aargonath's vision and some other important stickies at the groups and families boards, if you can't find them then PM me and I will show you.

If you are really willing to do something, it will happen. Don't be the people who post 'nothing changes, argo sux' waiting for the day everything will magically change. Roll up your sleves and get to working if you want something to change for good.

I have to say that each of your posts hits the point here, and i completly agree with you guys.
I also have to add that i think the reason for so many newly opened groups with actual lack of roleplay skill and experience is that those people mostly get denied from the groups they applied to join. I do think that the recognized and official groups should not be too easy to accept people who could (maybe) ruin their reputation, but they should not be too fast denying those people either. Instead of that, try teaching them. Try showing them how to do better than they did so far. Remember, we don't play against each other here, we all play together.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 02:31:23 pm
If people can make it work by using common snese, why do you need to make it a rule? Spread it by example, make people understand it is more fun if you do it without shortcuts.

It's easier to convince the minority than to convince the majority, on said division the majority had common sense and the minority easily embraced and followed.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Huntsman on February 10, 2015, 03:07:48 pm
When we get a 911 saying "I kindapped somebody" we simply ignore it. Why? No kidnapper would ever call 911 himself. He would want his relatives to pay the money without involving the police. Those who call the cops are simply looking for a cheap DM fest.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AlSforza on February 10, 2015, 04:45:39 pm
So... You can't bribe a person in an RP fashion way? Wasn't there a trial going on? What would prevent the briberies from happening in game, for example?

Yes there was a section on Argonath that made the "lead by example" thing work, you know why? Because we were fewer and the administration team had the time AND THE PATIENCE (focus on that point, yes I'm saying some have no patience or overall intention) to explain things and resolve situations. In a server with 50 players daily? They can't do everything. Rules are necessary to maintain even a light RP. These are not enough. And the lead by example thing in SAMP won't work while there are players that don't give a s**t about the others and if they're having fun or not. gief muni style.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: JackWhite on February 10, 2015, 05:24:13 pm
If you can not handle direct language then you can f*ck off.
Well, thanks. This is what I have been trying to say countless times on this server, and been banned for countless times..  :cowboy:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 10, 2015, 05:36:09 pm
Wherever this discussion leads, the practical part is the important. Start doing things in-game to promote roleplay, let the immature people troll on /p while the purple chats are full of quality roleplay!  :)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 10, 2015, 05:51:24 pm
I have to say that each of your posts hits the point here, and i completly agree with you guys.
I also have to add that i think the reason for so many newly opened groups with actual lack of roleplay skill and experience is that those people mostly get denied from the groups they applied to join. I do think that the recognized and official groups should not be too easy to accept people who could (maybe) ruin their reputation, but they should not be too fast denying those people either. Instead of that, try teaching them. Try showing them how to do better than they did so far. Remember, we don't play against each other here, we all play together.

Their points are valid clearly, though your part isn't fully valid. As fucked up as it may sound, you can't have a guy who joined a week ago, rolling with an official group, that's what new/lower groups are there for. People can join them, learn from them, and hopefully move on one day, either by leaving, or when the group closes(which is pretty common). I started low, most started low. I think that this is the best way to start anyway. You can't expect to be at the top, when you clearly are not experienced, and experience is gainned, not taught.

To the point. Yeye, all of those Lead by Examble posts have been arround for years. And yea, it does make a difference, but it is clearly not enough, if it was enough. This topic would not be arround. You can't solve a problem who has been for years, with the same solution you've been trying for years. Leading by examble is a start. And I am sure most people that want to, already do it, so talking about it here, won't make an actual difference. I do not know what we need, but hell we need something more than that.

(http://www.vt1mma.com.au/uploads/61317/ufiles/VT1_Images/Doing-the-same-thing-Albert-EInstein.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: jovanca on February 10, 2015, 06:04:21 pm
Their points are valid clearly, though your part isn't fully valid. As f**ked up as it may sound, you can't have a guy who joined a week ago, rolling with an official group, that's what new/lower groups are there for. People can join them, learn from them, and hopefully move on one day, either by leaving, or when the group closes(which is pretty common). I started low, most started low. I think that this is the best way to start anyway. You can't expect to be at the top, when you clearly are not experienced, and experience is gainned, not taught.

To the point. Yeye, all of those Lead by Examble posts have been arround for years. And yea, it does make a difference, but it is clearly not enough, if it was enough. This topic would not be arround. You can't solve a problem who has been for years, with the same solution you've been trying for years. Leading by examble is a start. And I am sure most people that want to, already do it, so talking about it here, won't make an actual difference. I do not know what we need, but hell we need something more than that.

(http://www.vt1mma.com.au/uploads/61317/ufiles/VT1_Images/Doing-the-same-thing-Albert-EInstein.jpg)

Yet the players i see started playing 2 years ago, same time i did or even earlier or later, who rped with official factions, are obviously better at roleplay than some people who didn't have a chance to roll with groups who actually rp, like i did, and like some of my friends who obviously roleplay well did. Ofcourse official groups can take the new players, thats the best way newbies will learn, from the good ones. I'm not saying Gvardia (just an example) should accept members who just started playing 4 days ago, but why not let these follow and learn?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 10, 2015, 06:08:05 pm
I'll be frank with you ... some are worth that, stick arround and learn phase, many aren't though. It's just my opinion after all, and I never said that they'd have to stick like that for years... But spend like a month on your own or with another group, before getting close to an official one, if your RP experience is close to 0. This changes if you are comming from any other RP server, where you'd have the knowledge, but would simply have to learn how things work in our server.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: jovanca on February 10, 2015, 06:18:31 pm
I'll be frank with you ... some are worth that, stick arround and learn phase, many aren't though. It's just my opinion after all, and I never said that they'd have to stick like that for years... But spend like a month on your own or with another group, before getting close to an official one, if your RP experience is close to 0. This changes if you are comming from any other RP server, where you'd have the knowledge, but would simply have to learn how things work in our server.

Well, my first actual RP group experience was Soprano family, back in 2013 when Johan was activly leading it. He let me roll with them, not as an official member tho, and showed me a lot. Later while playing on Argonath i did the same thing, there are some more or less active players who i helped when getting started, a lot, and who knows if they would still be around if i haven't done that. So my point is, recognized and official groups got their stauts for a reason - being good at what they do, so these groups should help the others become better at it as well. If someone appears not to be worth it, you can always get rid of him.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 10:51:36 pm
So... You can't bribe a person in an RP fashion way? Wasn't there a trial going on? What would prevent the briberies from happening in game, for example?

Yes there was a section on Argonath that made the "lead by example" thing work, you know why? Because we were fewer and the administration team had the time AND THE PATIENCE (focus on that point, yes I'm saying some have no patience or overall intention) to explain things and resolve situations. In a server with 50 players daily? They can't do everything. Rules are necessary to maintain even a light RP. These are not enough. And the lead by example thing in SAMP won't work while there are players that don't give a s**t about the others and if they're having fun or not. gief muni style.
We have ran SA:MP with over 100 players and still have enough time to explain.
The point is that it is not the administration that needs to wipe your ass. If you can not be bothered to help out a new player, they will not learn, or learn bad things from someone who does spend time on them but has different ideas.
If you try to take new players in to your RP and they do not want to understand but rulebreak instead, then it is time to get help from administration. Until then, it is up to the players to introduce new arrivals.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AlSforza on February 10, 2015, 11:07:18 pm
That's why I said some, not all. And I know that many players do as you say, myself included (as many can tell you). What I do not understand is insisting on a job done by people when it can be done by one simple rule that doesn't at all affect the server and its idea. Want to keep it "a free space" for everyone to hang out and have fun, fine I'm all for it - I think that we've just been saying that we'd like to preserve the roleplay either than the goofing around affecting others and their time or leasure.

And I'm being respectful, no need for harsh comments.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 11:14:50 pm
That's why I said some, not all. And I know that many players do as you say, myself included (as many can tell you). What I do not understand is insisting on a job done by people when it can be done by one simple rule that doesn't at all affect the server and its idea. Want to keep it "a free space" for everyone to hang out and have fun, fine I'm all for it - I think that we've just been saying that we'd like to preserve the roleplay either than the goofing around affecting others and their time or leasure.

And I'm being respectful, no need for harsh comments.
Just as I mentioned if you would have cared to read, adding one rule leads to adding another and within short time you have a Bible.
If you find this disrecpectful, grow a pair.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 11:18:13 pm
If you find this disrecpectful, grow a pair.

And you get some education, it's the second time today you showed a large lack of it.

He's being educated giving his opinion, be a little man and take his opinion wether you accept it or not in an educated way.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 10, 2015, 11:25:53 pm
Saying or doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, not educated.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 11:31:19 pm
Try as you might, he still stated his opinion how someone should have, we all know that some parts just became too defensive when he brought the administration up.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 11:32:47 pm
And you get some education, it's the second time today you showed a large lack of it.

He's being educated giving his opinion, be a little man and take his opinion wether you accept it or not in an educated way.
:hah:
Are the two of you lovers?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AlSforza on February 10, 2015, 11:35:00 pm
Nah, he's a friend and not an overall dick like you're being right now. Do as you wish Mr. Boss. So much for wanting the players to cooperate, can't even accept mere fucking opinions. For a grown man you sure are acting like a child.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 10, 2015, 11:39:50 pm
No need to get offended to easily, Al.
We're all having a discussion here about ROLEPLAYING and CREATIVITY.
Yeah I know you for a long time and all but what he said dude.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 11:40:48 pm
:hah:
Are the two of you lovers?

If you have any children, I feel bad for them already.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Reckless on February 10, 2015, 11:45:01 pm
My reaction to all this:

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/popcorn-gifs/tumblr_loiicjgadn1qa1lni.gif)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 11:50:52 pm
Nah, he's a friend and not an overall dick like you're being right now. Do as you wish Mr. Boss. So much for wanting the players to cooperate, can't even accept mere f**king opinions. For a grown man you sure are acting like a child.
Considering that the activity of the two of you is similar to mine over the past months (and that is not good) you should know that we are willing to cooperate with players, not with trolls who want to make this a generic server so they do not have to switch on their brain when entering.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 10, 2015, 11:53:00 pm
If you have any children, I feel bad for them already.
Likewise.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 10, 2015, 11:54:00 pm
(http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/19808000/ngbbs4a84bbe8311c9.jpg)

Great work. This topic actually lasted longer than most on topic.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 10, 2015, 11:58:19 pm
Likewise.

It's ok, when I get old enough to have children I won't be lurking around a "make believe" based video game, thanks for the concern though, and about the activity... is the MTA SA server up? Or are we forgiven of our inactivity?  :lol:

Anyhow, topics like these will keep on existing to the very end for the simple fact that the solution is visible to everyone except for those who are capable of putting it into action.
With that said, best of luck! I'll just be in my little corner praying that MTA gets back, get some proper RP.  :janek:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 12:00:41 am
It's ok, when I get old enough to have children I won't be lurking around a "make believe" based video, thanks for the concern though, and about the activity... is the MTA SA server up? Or are we forgiven of our inactivity?  :lol:

Anyhow, topics like these will keep on existing to the very end for the simple fact that the solution is visible to everyone except for those who are capable of putting it into action.
With that said, best of luck! I'll just be in my little corner praying that MTA gets back, get some proper RP.  :janek:
I guess that is reason for me to block its return.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TonySforza on February 11, 2015, 12:03:11 am
I guess that is reason for me to block its return.

Oh no, whatever shall I do?! I've never been so burned by a piece of wood my entire life!

Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AlSforza on February 11, 2015, 12:06:34 am
I guess that is reason for me to block its return.

Class act right here ladies and gentlemen. And with this, adios.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Chase on February 11, 2015, 12:08:41 am
@Shitters (you know who you are)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n638/Deathguard_92/Free2leave.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gnb_22 on February 11, 2015, 12:13:52 am
You guys make me laugh so hard.

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/420/just_sayin.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Mukdk on February 11, 2015, 12:14:30 am
Sure thing brony. Peace out.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 11, 2015, 12:16:43 am
My reaction to all this:

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/popcorn-gifs/tumblr_loiicjgadn1qa1lni.gif)

Do you have some to share?  :cry:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 11, 2015, 12:19:56 am
Some claim they want us to be more like other servers while in reality if you acted like the little shits a minority of people in the community act like... you'd be banned from these other servers in a heartbeat. I know admins in some of these other servers who have zero tolerance for 90% of the bulshit attitude and blatant disrespect handled by the team here; but won't second guess turning around and putting a player in their place if need be.

Consider that before you get what you wish for.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gird3r on February 11, 2015, 12:42:45 am
I recovered my now 9 year old shitty hotmail adress to restore my password. And to login. Just to reply to this singular thread that contains so much drama.

:hah:
Are the two of you lovers?

I guess that is reason for me to block its return.

I guess taking a big pile of poo and throwing it at the people who spent time playing here, and helping it grow. Is the proper way to do things now is it?
I'm no champ myself but wow. Just wow. Man are you being a grumpy, spitefull old man just now. And that is seriously discomforting to know.

What I don't get with ALL of you. Is why people cannot, and absolutely refuse to compromise in their roleplay.
You give and you take. That is really fucking simple to understand. But oooooooohhhhh nope. We must absolutely do it this way, or the other way. Or backwards. or forwards.

I used to heavily hate IC/OOC, I still do.
And I'm not a huge fan of srs rp.

But these things can co-exist, one way or another. Isn't this the world of it's own after all? Or is it just a front for a two people dictatorship that stopped working as soon as the community got bigger. Why is people here so utterly fixated on doing everything they can to NOT relax. To ensure fun only for yourself and no one else.

Times change, and while I'd absolutely love to revert things to what I consider to be the golden ages. It can't and will not happen.
Opinions are opinions. No need to go crazy.  :bananarock:

What I want to say is. Calm down. Make a plan, stick to the plan. Then grab a beer and relax.

Or some shit like that, I'm off now to do some space adventuring or something like that with my pockets full of cash.

(http://www.dailygalaxy.com/.a/6a00d8341bf7f753ef016300472165970d-pi)

Also bananas. Because we need a ice breaker in here.  :bananarock: :jackson: :bananav: :bananarock:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 11, 2015, 01:11:16 am
Percentage of bullshit in her raises by the hour... Lets stick on topic rather than a weird and useless argument between the owner and two veterans...
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: SkyHawk on February 11, 2015, 01:28:13 am
If you keep talking about something that has pre-existed in this community for several years you are only adding fuel to the fire. Instead of individuals going on soapboxes about the server and the shitty aspects currently in existence within' the server, primarily the roleplay aspect and the disrespectful attitudes shown both from administration and the player base, how about you actively go out and make a difference. Be the individual that steps outside of their comfort zone and actively pursues efforts to make a change instead of bullshitting every one of us on the forum with your ideology and propaganda. Be a leader not a follower. The best phrase to describe the predicament in Argonath. Don't wait for the average Joe or even server leadership for that matter to implement change, take it upon yourself to do it.

I'm sick and tired of reading these useless topics that start out with a vision and wined up being a damn shit show between both sides of the argument. Be the person that breaks away from the crowd and actively starts putting in effort rather than preaching to the fucking choir on the forum about changing this, and that, and that. There is no such thing as progress without action. You can talk about it all you want, but until someone actually starts trying to make a change rather than dictating others to make the change, NOTHING is going to happen. No one, I mean NO ONE is too fucking good to sit here and tell others to go make a change. It's a community effort, you want something done? Go fucking do something about it, then and only then will you actively see a change in Argonath.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Daco on February 11, 2015, 01:53:07 am
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/270/408/5a5.png)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TinMan on February 11, 2015, 03:47:00 am
What was the point of making this topic. Argonath RPG has been running the same way how it has been for years now. It is a "World of its own" so if you piss someone off or do something crazy expect to be shot. Your orange on the map you better start running or surrender before you get pwned by cops. That goes the same for me if I get chased down by criminals for getting to close and they kill me for it then so be it. It was my fault for getting to close anyway and engaging the suspects without any extra support. This is GTA. I have no problem with criminals calling 911 saying they have a hostage hell it just makes my job that much easier. You know why they do it? Because a real life kidnapping may take months and up to years before cops can find the actual kidnappers. Instead to speed that roleplay up they call 911. You all are wishing for a perfect peaceful roleplay. YEAH? Well all I say is this is. In GTA not everyone is going to be your friend. Everyone plays a role and you got to have thick skin and if you don't then all you will accomplish is nothing. You can complain all you want but it is not going to change the system of how Argonath RPG works. I think it is cool to get shot by a freaking combat weapon but turn around and drop whoever it is and continue with my day. While some of you will get killed and complain. It is a game for a reason so just have fun. If you get killed you get killed just don't complain. I myself rarely report anyone for any rulebreak the only time if it is a hacker. Most of the time there is not an admin online so I have to handle shit myself and finally people know not to mess with me. You just have to adapt yourself to Argonath that is all. Remember "World of its Own" and don't expect your roleplays to be always realistic either like in real life.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AryaN on February 11, 2015, 08:24:24 am
What was the point of making this topic. Argonath RPG has been running the same way how it has been for years now. It is a "World of its own" so if you piss someone off or do something crazy expect to be shot. Your orange on the map you better start running or surrender before you get pwned by cops. That goes the same for me if I get chased down by criminals for getting to close and they kill me for it then so be it. It was my fault for getting to close anyway and engaging the suspects without any extra support. This is GTA. I have no problem with criminals calling 911 saying they have a hostage hell it just makes my job that much easier. You know why they do it? Because a real life kidnapping may take months and up to years before cops can find the actual kidnappers. Instead to speed that roleplay up they call 911. You all are wishing for a perfect peaceful roleplay. YEAH? Well all I say is this is. In GTA not everyone is going to be your friend. Everyone plays a role and you got to have thick skin and if you don't then all you will accomplish is nothing. You can complain all you want but it is not going to change the system of how Argonath RPG works. I think it is cool to get shot by a freaking combat weapon but turn around and drop whoever it is and continue with my day. While some of you will get killed and complain. It is a game for a reason so just have fun. If you get killed you get killed just don't complain. I myself rarely report anyone for any rulebreak the only time if it is a hacker. Most of the time there is not an admin online so I have to handle shit myself and finally people know not to mess with me. You just have to adapt yourself to Argonath that is all. Remember "World of its Own" and don't expect your roleplays to be always realistic either like in real life.
This topic is made for people like you. Go through it  :rofl:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AryaN on February 11, 2015, 08:30:58 am
Kidnappings are actually boring. Everyone knows how it will go. The kidnapped person might as well go AFK because all he can do is sit still and be on PM or cb to waste time. The kidnappers call the cops and stock on weapons to kill as many as possible, and the cops get another shooting gallery. Is that really fun enough to repeat 100 times daily?
This isn't RS4 anymore. People do have changes with time. Calling 911 after kidnapping barely happens now. We mostly prefer to take revenge from the group by kidnapping the hostage. Whether we kill him/hurt him and leave at hospital/injure him and threw him into water. There are more and many ways we handle these type of situations to make more realistic.
 :war: :war:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 12:25:43 pm
I recovered my now 9 year old shitty hotmail adress to restore my password. And to login. Just to reply to this singular thread that contains so much drama.

I guess taking a big pile of poo and throwing it at the people who spent time playing here, and helping it grow. Is the proper way to do things now is it?
I'm no champ myself but wow. Just wow. Man are you being a grumpy, spitefull old man just now. And that is seriously discomforting to know.
What you and others seem to have forgotten is that we do not mince our words. Want political correct or corpspeak? Go read the news or press releases. That is not throwing a pile of poo on people, just making it clear that those who want to shit the community are invited to do it elsewhere.



What I don't get with ALL of you. Is why people cannot, and absolutely refuse to compromise in their roleplay.
You give and you take. That is really f**king simple to understand. But oooooooohhhhh nope. We must absolutely do it this way, or the other way. Or backwards. or forwards.

I used to heavily hate IC/OOC, I still do.
And I'm not a huge fan of srs rp.

But these things can co-exist, one way or another. Isn't this the world of it's own after all? Or is it just a front for a two people dictatorship that stopped working as soon as the community got bigger. Why is people here so utterly fixated on doing everything they can to NOT relax. To ensure fun only for yourself and no one else.
The co-existence is what I am defending. Which means that those who try to change rules in order to get their way may be met with a rather direct comment.
The co-existence is also why I am busy bringing back MTA, where a more 'serious' direction has been taken. However the idea is to let it add to the community, bring in new people and players. As soon as it starts to cause division and 'steals' players rather than building on their own strength, it will disappear again.

Times change, and while I'd absolutely love to revert things to what I consider to be the golden ages. It can't and will not happen.
Opinions are opinions. No need to go crazy.  :bananarock:

What I want to say is. Calm down. Make a plan, stick to the plan. Then grab a beer and relax.

Or some shit like that, I'm off now to do some space adventuring or something like that with my pockets full of cash.

Also bananas. Because we need a ice breaker in here.  :bananarock: :jackson: :bananav: :bananarock:
the golden age lies in front of us, never behind us.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 12:28:09 pm
If you keep talking about something that has pre-existed in this community for several years you are only adding fuel to the fire. Instead of individuals going on soapboxes about the server and the shitty aspects currently in existence within' the server, primarily the roleplay aspect and the disrespectful attitudes shown both from administration and the player base, how about you actively go out and make a difference. Be the individual that steps outside of their comfort zone and actively pursues efforts to make a change instead of bullshitting every one of us on the forum with your ideology and propaganda. Be a leader not a follower. The best phrase to describe the predicament in Argonath. Don't wait for the average Joe or even server leadership for that matter to implement change, take it upon yourself to do it.

I'm sick and tired of reading these useless topics that start out with a vision and wined up being a damn shit show between both sides of the argument. Be the person that breaks away from the crowd and actively starts putting in effort rather than preaching to the f**king choir on the forum about changing this, and that, and that. There is no such thing as progress without action. You can talk about it all you want, but until someone actually starts trying to make a change rather than dictating others to make the change, NOTHING is going to happen. No one, I mean NO ONE is too f**king good to sit here and tell others to go make a change. It's a community effort, you want something done? Go f**king do something about it, then and only then will you actively see a change in Argonath.
I do hope you use a mirror, as you are displaying exactly what you are wanting to change.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 12:30:45 pm
This isn't RS4 anymore. People do have changes with time. Calling 911 after kidnapping barely happens now. We mostly prefer to take revenge from the group by kidnapping the hostage. Whether we kill him/hurt him and leave at hospital/injure him and threw him into water. There are more and many ways we handle these type of situations to make more realistic.
 :war: :war:
Good to hear that. Still when I am entering the server and 50% of the talk is about how to kidnap me it seems not a lot has changed...
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 11, 2015, 12:34:34 pm
Good to hear that. Still when I am entering the server and 50% of the talk is about how to kidnap me it seems not a lot has changed...

You might be kidnapped and thrown to the water or left at the hospital injured, doesn't mean we  would call the cops. :P
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 11, 2015, 12:35:16 pm
Good to hear that. Still when I am entering the server and 50% of the talk is about how to kidnap me it seems not a lot has changed...

Start by joining more than once a year then... Yeah, guess the players were wrong for being happy for your presence on the server that day after all...
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Cyril on February 11, 2015, 12:41:58 pm
Start by joining more than once a year then... Yeah, guess the players were wrong for being happy for your presence on the server that day after all...

Who tells you he doesn't join more than once a year?
It's not because you don't see a player called "Gandalf" in the player list that he is not around.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 12:47:04 pm
Start by joining more than once a year then... Yeah, guess the players were wrong for being happy for your presence on the server that day after all...
The reason I do not join under Gandalf is that my possibilities to actually play are way too limited on that account. I'd rather be less conspicuous.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Acika on February 11, 2015, 12:50:28 pm
It's such a pity to see that no real leader has left on the server.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 12:54:01 pm
It's such a pity to see that no real leader has left on the server.
Is that an application?  :cowboy:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Cyril on February 11, 2015, 01:02:10 pm
Is that an application?  :cowboy:

I doubt banned people can apply for such position! :kilt:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on February 11, 2015, 01:07:52 pm
The reason I do not join under Gandalf is that my possibilities to actually play are way too limited on that account. I'd rather be less conspicuous.

Is that why I keep getting PMed and blackmailed to give money so I'm not "revealed". Yes, some guys think I am you UC  :neutral2:

As to stay on topic, Gandalf's attitude may be a little bit out of some's comfort zone. But put yourself in his position, running this community for all those years. We need to learn to babysit ourselvs and not rely on his interaction all the time. He's giving alot, so don't be surprised if he wants to be more direct. He should be, because people always tend to bend his words in their own liking.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Acika on February 11, 2015, 01:09:02 pm
Is that an application?  :cowboy:
Depends on what you think. Application for a community leader or for a group leader ;)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Devin on February 11, 2015, 01:16:28 pm
Fuck I dropped my popcorn.  :(
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 01:27:43 pm
Is that why I keep getting PMed and blackmailed to give money so I'm not "revealed". Yes, some guys think I am you UC  :neutral2:

As to stay on topic, Gandalf's attitude may be a little bit out of some's comfort zone. But put yourself in his position, running this community for all those years. We need to learn to babysit ourselvs and not rely on his interaction all the time. He's giving alot, so don't be surprised if he wants to be more direct. He should be, because people always tend to bend his words in their own liking.
Over the years I have changed a bit. That has nothing to do with becoming a grumpy old man, but with my role changing to a more solitary one. At the same time being direct is something that has gotten lost in society, which I personally find a pity.

If people find me disrespectful, they should ask themselves why. I have respect for those who are still active, even if they have had better and worse times. But I do not respect those who have zero activity and try to tell us how we should run the server.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 11, 2015, 01:48:43 pm
The reason I do not join under Gandalf is that my possibilities to actually play are way too limited on that account. I'd rather be less conspicuous.
Fair point but just like you said... Dont expect people to act normal arround your Gandalf account...
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 11, 2015, 01:52:44 pm
I do not respect those who have zero activity and try to tell us how we should run the server.

This.

Because it's too easy to talk about solutions when the problem is not yours.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Johan_S on February 11, 2015, 01:53:10 pm
The "sensibility" comes only in game, experience is gained only in game, ideology will be built only in game.

Every player will improve in game it's just mater of time and examples which will be given by veterans or leaders.

Best Regards  :war:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 11, 2015, 01:56:30 pm
This.

Because it's too easy to talk about solutions when the problem is not yours.

That's not right actually, just because someone is not currently active at a certain server, it does not mean that he has no connection with a problem, what ever the reasons of his inactivity are. I have got inactive in the past, many times for several reasons. How much I care about Argonath has not changed at all durring inactive times the past few years though...
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Astaroth on February 11, 2015, 02:08:15 pm
I'm really sorry this thread has turned into one big shitstorm of people arguing.
I fully understand anyone disagreeing with me, and that's all I'll say about it.

As for the ones TRYING to make a change?
I'm really looking for people to join along and make this one big example for everyone.
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=110125.0

EDIT:
And one thing I quite can't understand. Why the fuck are you all arguing with Gandalf on this one?
It's me who created the topic, and it's me being with the rude words at first.
But you guys just need to get out of the cage.
Why are you blaming the staff for the players actions? It's not like we control everyone.
It's pointless arguing if you bring no change, really.
And what bothers me now is - the people who act all "good guy" here and "agree" with me, still keep fucking around.
Some do, some don't understand how it is for an admin to be online for 5 hours, trying to keep the players calm and in good shape and motivated and babysit everyone for rulebreaking.
I've never been a saint, Gandalf knows that for himself. I was a fucking asshole towards this community.
But well, time passes, people change.
There was a time where once instead of breaking the rules, I decided to help someone. Trust me, that felt much better. And that lead to me sticking with people who did that for a long time. Administrators, old players who actually appreciate this community and so on. The atmosphere we had during our roleplays were simply amazing.

But, to get back to the point:

For those who find themselves in my words(the bad part), you've never given a single fuck to contribute to the community in any way possible. That's exactly what you bitch about. You bitch about how you set a bad example for everyone, how everyone takes example from you and does the same shit YOU do and make this server not likeable as it used to be.
Look guys, I created this thing for a reason, we all want a change to better, no?
So let's make one and quit bitching.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 11, 2015, 02:39:04 pm
You keep on saying how the change will come from the players ... yet again when the players ask for more rules you turn them down. not using /pm and /cb when you are being kidnapped is common sense you'd say, yet again it is fully allowed... Make a rule about it, we have many rules, both official and unofficial, useful and useless, smart and dump, just add a couple more... Anyway, I don't think that talking here will make an actual difference. Leading by examble is what we've been trying for the past years ... Guess what. It didn't work, now if you think that it will. Visit my Einstein post, see that memo, make sure that you get it. And start thinking about it.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Cyril on February 11, 2015, 02:41:03 pm
If we add more rules, you, players, will be the first one to complain.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Tiny on February 11, 2015, 02:43:35 pm
If we add more rules, you, players, will be the first one to complain.

Why would a player complain when a rule gives out a solution?

However, there is no need for new rules. Read what people have said on this topic, more than enough if people implement their ideas.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: AryaN on February 11, 2015, 03:11:59 pm
If we add more rules, you, players, will be the first one to complain.
Just add a rule "Use your common sense"
And players will understand if they really use it.

Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Daco on February 11, 2015, 03:27:25 pm
Just add a rule "Use your common sense"

If that was a rule this thread wouldn't be here..
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 11, 2015, 03:51:15 pm
Why would a player complain when a rule gives out a solution?
Because:
Some claim they want us to be more like other servers while in reality if you acted like the little shits a minority of people in the community act like... you'd be banned from these other servers in a heartbeat. I know admins in some of these other servers who have zero tolerance for 90% of the bulshit attitude and blatant disrespect handled by the team here; but won't second guess turning around and putting a player in their place if need be.

Consider that before you get what you wish for.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: diddeh on February 11, 2015, 03:51:54 pm
Considering that the activity of the two of you is similar to mine over the past months (and that is not good) you should know that we are willing to cooperate with players, not with trolls who want to make this a generic server so they do not have to switch on their brain when entering.
You know, stating your opinion doesn't necessarily mean you are trolling you know? I'm not sure where you people get that from..
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 11, 2015, 03:51:56 pm
If that was a rule this thread wouldn't be here..

Neither would a fair population of the community.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Teddy on February 11, 2015, 03:52:54 pm
You know, stating your opinion doesn't necessarily mean you are trolling you know? I'm not sure where you people get that from..

You are right. It's how the opinion is stated and the purpose of stating the opinion behind it. Motive is a large factor, well, if not the biggest factor.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 05:00:21 pm
You keep on saying how the change will come from the players ... yet again when the players ask for more rules you turn them down. not using /pm and /cb when you are being kidnapped is common sense you'd say, yet again it is fully allowed... Make a rule about it, we have many rules, both official and unofficial, useful and useless, smart and dump, just add a couple more... Anyway, I don't think that talking here will make an actual difference. Leading by examble is what we've been trying for the past years ... Guess what. It didn't work, now if you think that it will. Visit my Einstein post, see that memo, make sure that you get it. And start thinking about it.
If you want to make rules they must be simple and enforceable.
So lets see if we would follow your suggestion and make a rule that it is not allowed to use /pm and /cb during a kidnap situation.
Here comes a kidnap situation and at some point some ZOMGRPer is reporting to the admins that the kidnapped person used /pm or /cb, which he denies.
1. How are you going to find out who is speaking the truth? It would need a ful log check to find out the time the person was actually under control of the kidnappers so he should not use these, and to read every time he and anyone suspected of arriving due to his call for help in order to find out if they did discuss this or something else. This would take a manager about 30 minutes, admins do not have direct access to logs. Do you really believe the offense is so bad it needs a manager to spend 30 minutes on?
2. Supposed the manager would find that the rule was broken, what would be the punishment?

Remember that our team is strictly forbidden to punish on hunches or say-so of others. Now let us see your Einstein solution.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: SkyHawk on February 11, 2015, 05:32:03 pm
I do hope you use a mirror, as you are displaying exactly what you are wanting to change.

No where in that statement did I claim I was exempt from those policies, I am as guilty of it as everyone else is. The point I was trying to get across was the idea that we actually need to make an active effort to start doing something rather than talking about it, or simply waiting for someone else to go out and do it. Take responsibility for our actions and don't rely on others to take care of the things that we have the ability to achieve ourselves.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Marcel on February 11, 2015, 06:09:50 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/p7r5xLg.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 11, 2015, 06:35:13 pm
If you want to make rules they must be simple and enforceable.
So lets see if we would follow your suggestion and make a rule that it is not allowed to use /pm and /cb during a kidnap situation.
Here comes a kidnap situation and at some point some ZOMGRPer is reporting to the admins that the kidnapped person used /pm or /cb, which he denies.
1. How are you going to find out who is speaking the truth? It would need a ful log check to find out the time the person was actually under control of the kidnappers so he should not use these, and to read every time he and anyone suspected of arriving due to his call for help in order to find out if they did discuss this or something else. This would take a manager about 30 minutes, admins do not have direct access to logs. Do you really believe the offense is so bad it needs a manager to spend 30 minutes on?
2. Supposed the manager would find that the rule was broken, what would be the punishment?

Remember that our team is strictly forbidden to punish on hunches or say-so of others. Now let us see your Einstein solution.
May Einstein guide me!
Well, guess some scripting would be needed(Ye ye bad I know). So it'd be a command like /whateverthef**kitmaybe ID , the person who got that would have to accept it, in order for his pm, cb, radio to be completly set off, so that he can neither read those chats, nor answer to them. (similar to /repair ID). If that person denied to accept the command, and administrator would be abled to understand, when someone is actually in a situation where contacting anyone else would be hard to impossible.
Now yeah I do understand that people may just walk up to someone, aim a weapon and do /blabla to him straight away, without any RP. That would indeed be bad... but yet again, it would be the same as the mechanics. (Not implying that I'd like that outcome, simply using a command, but we are not mature enough to do it iwthout it, clearly).
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Marcel on February 11, 2015, 07:10:34 pm
May Einstein guide me!
Well, guess some scripting would be needed(Ye ye bad I know). So it'd be a command like /whateverthef**kitmaybe ID , the person who got that would have to accept it, in order for his pm, cb, radio to be completly set off, so that he can neither read those chats, nor answer to them. (similar to /repair ID). If that person denied to accept the command, and administrator would be abled to understand, when someone is actually in a situation where contacting anyone else would be hard to impossible.
Now yeah I do understand that people may just walk up to someone, aim a weapon and do /blabla to him straight away, without any RP. That would indeed be bad... but yet again, it would be the same as the mechanics. (Not implying that I'd like that outcome, simply using a command, but we are not mature enough to do it iwthout it, clearly).
So scripts have to be made specially for people who have such mental issues that they cannot even participate in fun, mutually respectful roleplay?
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 11, 2015, 08:41:37 pm
May Einstein guide me!
Well, guess some scripting would be needed(Ye ye bad I know). So it'd be a command like /whateverthef**kitmaybe ID , the person who got that would have to accept it, in order for his pm, cb, radio to be completly set off, so that he can neither read those chats, nor answer to them. (similar to /repair ID). If that person denied to accept the command, and administrator would be abled to understand, when someone is actually in a situation where contacting anyone else would be hard to impossible.
Now yeah I do understand that people may just walk up to someone, aim a weapon and do /blabla to him straight away, without any RP. That would indeed be bad... but yet again, it would be the same as the mechanics. (Not implying that I'd like that outcome, simply using a command, but we are not mature enough to do it iwthout it, clearly).
If you make a script you do not need a rule. So what do you actually want?
Besides that a script would not exactly solve the issue, because everyone will know that if they suddenly stop speaking on /pm and /cb they are kidnapped... not to mention being kidnapped the use of /pm and /cb for non.RP related subject at least kills some tome.
Besides that, would it be disallowed to kidnap someone unless they accepted the command? Which could lead to endless discussions about forced roleplay.
In the end the command would hardly be used because those inclined to use it would be the same players who would normally not use /pm and /cb to warn others.

As you see, your idea of a simple solution is not so simple at all, it is much more simple to leave it up to the common sense and imagnation of the players.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Kostas on February 12, 2015, 01:32:16 am
Well I am not really trying to start a beef and no matter what you think im doing it out of poor interest for the server... I cant come up with the righ idea clearly but lets not go arround saying that our current thing is right simply because we didnt come up with anything smarter. I am not claiming to be better than anyone Im simply trying to point out the current mistake... Im not the guy who has servers running since 2006 you are. We cant come up with something better, fine. But dont go arround saying that what we have is the solution, simply because it has been the same for years. For what its worth... The server currently feels to be in the right way, except for some
Lame cases every now and then(btw this was writen at a phone, excuse
Any mistakes)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Gandalf on February 12, 2015, 10:18:22 pm
Well I am not really trying to start a beef and no matter what you think im doing it out of poor interest for the server... I cant come up with the righ idea clearly but lets not go arround saying that our current thing is right simply because we didnt come up with anything smarter. I am not claiming to be better than anyone Im simply trying to point out the current mistake... Im not the guy who has servers running since 2006 you are. We cant come up with something better, fine. But dont go arround saying that what we have is the solution, simply because it has been the same for years. For what its worth... The server currently feels to be in the right way, except for some
Lame cases every now and then(btw this was writen at a phone, excuse
Any mistakes)
The point here is that as I gave you chance to bring forward a solution, the same happened that has happened before when players are invited to think from the point of administration and owners. It is easy to look at a situation you do not like and shout for rules or other changes. But once you start looking at a solution it becomes clear that it is not possible to find a workable solution that is fair and will actually e used.
You may accuse me of not wantingto change some things, and yo uare absolutely right. However that does not mean I never consider options and changes. In most caases before debating the idea it has already gone through my mind what would be needed to implement it.
If the answer is possible unfair treatment of players or things that will hardly be used, I sometimes try to see if players can do better. And in very rare cases I have been surprised.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: 9r2e5i3k on February 15, 2015, 03:32:44 pm
one hell of a shitstorm, should bring back the kill-zone for this
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Zaila on February 15, 2015, 09:39:23 pm
one hell of a shitstorm, should bring back the kill-zone for this

You're back?!
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: 9r2e5i3k on February 15, 2015, 11:44:02 pm
You're back?!
no, just lurking. see you in 2 years
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Boromir on February 16, 2015, 03:52:40 am
no, just lurking. see you in 2 years

:lol:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Reckless on February 16, 2015, 06:39:25 am
Do you have some to share?  :cry:

(http://gifstumblr.com/images/i-dont-share-popcorn_541.gif)

one hell of a shitstorm, should bring back the kill-zone for this

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d9/be/72/d9be72f4ac11c7da286fa98e99c929f3.jpg)

no, just lurking. see you in 2 years

(http://s1.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/shaq-laughing-press-conference-shaq-gifs.gif)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Manoni on February 16, 2015, 08:09:24 am
(http://i.imgur.com/oRt4EZh.jpg)
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Zaila on February 16, 2015, 03:59:46 pm
no, just lurking. see you in 2 years

As usual then. :(
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: SugarD on February 17, 2015, 05:27:46 pm
You're back?!
I'm just as dumbfounded as you are. Holy crap.

/me throws down his popcorn and runs for the door, trying to block Grzesiek from leaving again.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Pandalink on February 17, 2015, 08:29:26 pm
bring back the kill-zone
:gand:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Karmps. on February 18, 2015, 08:09:57 pm
It seems people want to argue more and more, please lock it already...
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: beLTa on February 18, 2015, 08:12:25 pm
It seems people want to argue more and more, please lock it already...

Have you read the whole topic? People are converting this topic into a comedy one now, Let's back to old.   :lol:
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Karmps. on February 18, 2015, 08:18:27 pm
This should be moved under the Speakerbox(Community discussions) atleast... xD
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: Miller786 on February 18, 2015, 08:37:51 pm
Made my day.
Title: Re: Stuff I'd like to point out. Please read.
Post by: jannik852 on February 22, 2015, 01:04:51 pm
I did not come to argue, I came to tell my friend Astaroth that I completely agree with him - and I wish you the very best of luck with your health issues, I'll hope you will be alright! :)

Best Regards.
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