Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Kaze on April 12, 2015, 01:26:31 pm
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Hi,
I'm not here to form a protest against the HQ. I'm just here to politely talk to you about something.
The HQ need to stop giving permanent bans for minor things ingame. This has been happening a lot and I believe that is the reason why we have created so many enemies which leads to frequent DDoS's.
Every member of the HQ have their own perspective to things and I believe that is a problem. For example, Devin's perspective is different to Cyril's. I believe the first step is for the HQ to agree to disagree on bannable offences. One admin might ban me for carjacking but another admin might just give me a warning.
When it comes to the unban request itself, 50% of the time the banned player is innocent. Well not really innocent but his action is not that deep to be bannable. The funny thing with the HQ is most of the time (i'm not saying ALL) they are wrong and yet still want an apology from the banned victim before the unban. It is very painful to apologise for something you don't mean.
There are a lot of people know who don't apologise and continue to plea their innocence and we all know they have no chance of coming back ingame without apologising. A lot of us are hard headed and once we finally process the fact that we won't get unbanned without that apology, boom goes the hatred for Argonath. DDoS's ever so often, Argonath RPG hate videos (Renzo/Salmonella and his crew). Those users just proved my point.
I'm not saying go easy on the players like just give them a kick for weapon hacks.. you ban them. It's just for these little things that encourage the HQ to use the /ban. Logically speaking, why would you ban someone for scamming? That's the kind of shit that I'm talking about. Let's assume the scamming was illegal (drugs). Let roleplay take it's course! Maybe the victim now goes and calls his boys and goes on a hunt to find the guy that robbed his weed?
It's little stuff like this from the HQ that causes the shitstorm. I'm not saying that we, the players, are angels because we are not. But I'll bet that the HQ contributes to the DDoS's that occur.
Waka
SF_Sa
DHR.Mike (or w/e the guys name is)
is just one of the suspects (personally) that go on to do these DDoS's and other activites which ruin our fun. You have banned countless of people for ''bullshit'' reasons and that needs to stop.
I urge the HQ to have a little sit down and agree to disagree on bannable offences. Once the offences have been agreed upon the HQ, you issue them publicly for all of us to view. Again, this is not a rant against the HQ. I'm just confident that some of your actions are contributing to the sever's problems.
Let me know what you guys think.
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I do agree there need to be clear cut rules and punishments for them. The rules on wiki are outdated, and I haven't seen anyone refer to them. Ever.
Obviously I think there is a case of people breaking small rules constantly, and admins then banning them for "carjacking", when it should be "constant rulebreaking".
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This kind of topics have been around for years, I doubt anything is going to change. Good luck anyway.
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This kind of topics have been around for years, I doubt anything is going to change. Good luck anyway.
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:app:
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This kind of topics have been around for years, I doubt anything is going to change. Good luck anyway.
All we gotta do is don't gang up on the HQ and keep the discussion civil. It will be difficult but it can be done with the right attitude.
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I agree on most of the things you said. But you could already count out how the topic will end up. Many players will agree and admins will say that things are perfect as they are. Looking forward to see some funny memes from players and admins though :)
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All we gotta do is don't gang up on the HQ and keep the discussion civil. It will be difficult but it can be done with the right attitude.
Hence I wished you good luck.
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Scamming on legal deals has always been illegal - This is due to the fact that otherwise there would be even less role play. If everyone would just get scammed every time they engage something legally, have to take up to court (and wait quite some time before it can get handled as it would get scammed rather in a large amount) then a lot of players would leave due to that fact.
Also, selling a house, vehicle, weaponry, etc (in a legal trade). Is reported to state when changing owner, so scamming would make no sense there.
As for the bans, players have requested us to be more strict, we do that, they moan we are too strict and that we should punish less.
And if someone goes around DDosing that shows that they're not worth playing in this community anyways, 10 per cent of the time, an admin is wrong with his bans, the rest of the times there's always suitable evidence (evidence that is stored by staff). Just because a player does not agree with a rule, does not mean that this rule is not valid.
Discussions about rules are fine, you do not have to agree with it, but you will have to follow them. I do not agree with every rule set up for the server or administration either, yet I follow them as that is the rule the server leader or owner wants us to follow. And you decide to play here, so follow them.
If you'd like to change/ add/ remove a rule, send a PM or a report to the email/ forums about your issue and I am sure the HQ will handle it.
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It's simple. Don't do things that you don't like others to do to you and you stay within the rules without knowing them, that happens to me.
If by accident you do something wrong and the admin punishes you, get banned for example, even if you think you are right, just apologize for it, tell them that you acknowledged the problems you caused and tell them that you will improve your gaming, just don't waste your time to prove your point, it's useless and you only extend your time being banned.
Wait patiently until your time comes and just get back and enjoy your play. Fast and simple.
The problem is that the players always want to shine in front of HQ, becoming some kind of martyrs for other players, which is complete bullshit.
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Seems like the whole community is against the HQ. :lol:
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Is proving your point out, that could take weeks, more important than playing in that period of time, after staying out lets say just one week?
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Every member of the HQ have their own perspective to things and I believe that is a problem. For example, Devin's perspective is different to Cyril's. I believe the first step is for the HQ to agree to disagree on bannable offences. One admin might ban me for carjacking but another admin might just give me a warning.
Agreed, I've asked a few questions about the same subject (with the same example of a rulebreak) to many different admins and their opinions about it are completely different.
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i think the main issue within the administration is that every admin has it's own understanding and enforcing of the rules (i know for a fact since i've been admin) and that needs to be changed
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It's nice to see the players contributing to this discussion are not giving the impression ''FU HQ'' but peacefully agreeing with my views.
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I'm not here to form a protest against the HQ.
Then what is the point of the rest of the post ?
Every member of the HQ have their own perspective to things and I believe that is a problem.
Actually its the biggest strength, if was all the same then one mistake is everyone's mistake!
HOWEVER that does not mean that you go running to a HQ member who you know thinks differently when another has not answered in a way that benefits you!! (this DOES happen)
I'm just confident that some of your actions are contributing to the sever's problems.
I actually agree that some actions from HQ are contributing to server problems...
HOWEVER (again) there is a bigger problem with players who think there is only a yes or no answer to problems.... most the time it depends on interpretation of many factors which means its never straight forward, accept what the staff member has told you, do not try and undermine them, it will often mean getting treated worse if you do..
One thing that has not helped is the staff reactions are often based on how they get treated by the players, some are heavy in reaction, some are light, if they have been shat on (and quite a few HQ staff have been) they are more likely to punish heavily.. I could name a few but its the players who have caused this.
Some of us are trying to change to a more tolerant, but this not sit well with players who moan about the slightest problem and use /report for those 'minor' things.
If you want better balance, then maybe look across the whole community and not just moaning about the staff.
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So you are telling me the HQ judges on the punishment from their attitude in the situation? What if the admin instant bans without no time to talk to the player? I'm not talking about hacks because that is instant DM..
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Some of us are trying to change to a more tolerant, but this not sit well with players who moan about the slightest problem and use /report for those 'minor' things.
So don't indulge them. If someone abuses the report command as just another tool in their arsenal against other players, tell them where to go basically.
The admins interpreting rules individually is a problem for consistency, but it does teach players (most of which are fairly young) important skills about dealing with things like heirarchies in future jobs. They will learn to identify who they can count on and how to avoid those they can't, or how to act amicably to an incompetent boss, so that's something at least.
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How about everyone just Obeys the rules. then things should be fine.. in some cases a perm ban isnt necessary though
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How about everyone just Obeys the rules.
You can obey the rules as much as you want, if an admin decides you didn't then you're a bit screwed.
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The constant problem from the administration in Argonath, is that every admin haves different point of view, which leads that every admin have's different rules, i had been punished not once for something that the one of the admins tell me it's allowed, and the other just jump in and punish me. However this need's to be changed maybe you could do some kind of protocol in the private staff boards, how a different rulebreak should be handled and so on would help really out.
About legal scamming, well this kind of scam it's not allowed from long time, but it should be changed as they is court for those thinks, that could be used to have more roleplay, You scam in legal deal you get sued, and the money that you need to pay back is double or even triple, this is enough punishment for the scammers, i remember once i got banned for attempt to loan scam, using the court rules and the consitutition to my obligations, i got my bank account handed to me with any minus amout of money, but i was also banned from the server which i deserved at that time because i broke a rule at all. How ever i am trying to point out that to get fined for money that you need to work 2-3 months is pretty enough.
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The administration team is made of human beings, 100%. We have feelings, and if you manage to piss us off with your ignorance or just plain disrespecting, you should know the staff won't take it lightly. There's some degree of lack of respect on both sides of the coin here, but that's always been around and it always will. Players won't respect admins because they're "parent figures" or "authority" in the server, whilst some admins may get arrogant just because they have the rank and some players don't.
From my personal experience as admin (been one for a very, VERY long time, arguably one of the longest times in Argonath) if a player treats me with respect, even if they break a rule I'll give them the same respect back, but if a players tells me to piss off and mind my own business whilst they break the rules, I won't stick around watching their shit, I'll just remove them from the server. Same goes for repeat-offenders and people who are there simply to ruin others fun.
Requlars (or veterans, whatever you want to call them) are expected to follow the rules and be a example to the new players. Don't expect a light treatment if you continuously keep fucking up.
You don't want to be banned for bullshit reason? Stop doing that said bullshit and you won't be, it's as simple as that.
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One admin might ban me for carjacking but another admin might just give me a warning.
No one has been banned for breaking a single rule like carjacking, it will be made up of multiple rules broken, if you want to use a ban as an example at least use something legitimate instead of pretty much making up a reason to complain.
The HQ need to stop giving permanent bans for minor things ingame. This has been happening a lot and I believe that is the reason why we have created so many enemies which leads to frequent DDoS's.
You really shouldn't blame people being banned for attacks, it's their behaviour that got them banned from the server in the first place. They were unable to follow the rules laid out so they were removed as they should have been.
When it comes to the unban request itself, 50% of the time the banned player is innocent. Well not really innocent but his action is not that deep to be bannable. The funny thing with the HQ is most of the time (i'm not saying ALL) they are wrong and yet still want an apology from the banned victim before the unban. It is very painful to apologise for something you don't mean.
Go ahead, keep saying HQ is wrong most of the time. Continue to create rumours and spread them both on the forum and in-game. Yes we do have logs in-game and I am sure you are aware of that.
We will not ask an innocent person to apologize for their actions, if someone is banned and there is no evidence to put up against their appeal to be unbanned they will get unbanned.
If a player is too hard headed as you say to admit their faults, why should we let them back?
Logically speaking, why would you ban someone for scamming? That's the kind of shit that I'm talking about. Let's assume the scamming was illegal (drugs). Let roleplay take it's course! Maybe the victim now goes and calls his boys and goes on a hunt to find the guy that robbed his weed?
No one gets banned for scamming on illegal deals like drugs. People will get banned for scamming on legal deals when they show no remorse, those scamming on legal deals just to try and ruin something another player has built will be faced with bans. The courts could deal with it, sure.
However why waste everyones time going through the courts to sue someone who doesn't care about playing and are just here to ruin other players time in the server?
If people knew how to behave ingame things could be eased up but unfortunately people want staff to act like babysitters for them at all times.
It's little stuff like this from the HQ that causes the shitstorm. I'm not saying that we, the players, are angels because we are not. But I'll bet that the HQ contributes to the DDoS's that occur.
Waka
SF_Sa
DHR.Mike (or w/e the guys name is)
is just one of the suspects (personally) that go on to do these DDoS's and other activites which ruin our fun. You have banned countless of people for ''bullshit'' reasons and that needs to stop.
You should seriously stop spreading rumours about matters you are not even aware of.
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It's simple. Don't do things that you don't like others to do to you and you stay within the rules without knowing them, that happens to me.
The administration team is made of human beings, 100%. We have feelings, and if you manage to piss us off with your ignorance or just plain disrespecting, you should know the staff won't take it lightly. There's some degree of lack of respect on both sides of the coin here, but that's always been around and it always will. Players won't respect admins because they're "parent figures" or "authority" in the server, whilst some admins may get arrogant just because they have the rank and some players don't.
From my personal experience as admin (been one for a very, VERY long time, arguably one of the longest times in Argonath) if a player treats me with respect, even if they break a rule I'll give them the same respect back, but if a players tells me to piss off and mind my own business whilst they break the rules, I won't stick around watching their shit, I'll just remove them from the server. Same goes for repeat-offenders and people who are there simply to ruin others fun.
Requlars (or veterans, whatever you want to call them) are expected to follow the rules and be a example to the new players. Don't expect a light treatment if you continuously keep f**cking up.
You don't want to be banned for bullshit reason? Stop doing that said bullshit and you won't be, it's as simple as that.
:app:
Indeed, people should stop trying to find and push the edges. Keep away from those edges and you will most likely not ever step over them (by accident). Besides, the enjoyment in the game can only get better from it, since players will notice and acknowledge you for the fair play and fair treatment.
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No one has been banned for breaking a single rule like carjacking, it will be made up of multiple rules broken, if you want to use a ban as an example at least use something legitimate instead of pretty much making up a reason to complain.
Could refer to my latest unban request. Calling one a child through an email which is a report does not warrant a kick, nonetheless a ban.
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Could refer to my latest unban request. Calling one a child through an email which is a report does not warrant a kick, nonetheless a ban.
Your attitude in the server towards staff was a contributing factor.
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(http://i58.tinypic.com/wu2ezt.png)
Punishments since my last ban
Ignore the kick and the banana's. Look at the warning. Although Mario got it wrong (not getting into that though), I know that other admins would of tempbanned or even banned me for that.
That is what I'm trying to say, different admins have different perspectives to it.
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And consider this, he's a moderator who does not have access to the tempban command.
I really can't get why people want to waste so much time crying about staff and HQ instead of behaving in-game and not getting punished.
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And consider this, he's a moderator who does not have access to the tempban command.
I really can't get why people want to waste so much time crying about staff and HQ instead of behaving in-game and not getting punished.
You're clearly taking this the wrong way. I am not ''crying'' but suggesting the HQ come up with some sort of system for the HQ to follow. Back to the punishments above, only Trane's banana was valid. 1/4 verdicts were actually correct. I didn't make this topic for myself, I've just witnessed bizzare bans over the years and I feel it would be good to discuss about it.
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I don't know what the actual goal of yours is but I got one thing to ask;
Why the whole community always goes against the team? Against the HQ? It's another topic by you which simply wants HQ to follow the players. Why you guys don't change your ownselves instead of blaming HQ? If you'll break the rule, you'll obviously get the warning. If you'll keep repeating the it, you want them to give you another warning? And so on..Simply no idea what you want to do.
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I don't know what the actual goal of yours is but I got one thing to ask;
Why the whole community always goes against the team? Against the HQ? It's another topic by you which simply wants HQ to follow the players. Why you guys don't change your ownselves instead of blaming HQ? If you'll break the rule, you'll obviously get the warning. Ifi you'll keep repeating the it, you want them to give you another warning? And so on..Simply no idea what you want to do.
You are interpreting the topic in a negative way. See? It proves my point about people having different perspectives on things. All I am saying is the HQ need to come up with a system and enforce it. Re-write the rules from scratch. I'm not moaning at the HQ, I'm simply telling them to find a system with their banning procedures.
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Our system - Remove the problematic people that disrupt those wanting to play on the server.
Simple enough?
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Lock this.
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What if i say the same system is imposing restrictions as mentioned in previous topics and it has become more of a nuisance now. Maybe you must rework the system or you can make the system firm and by firm i mean, create a constitutional framework like carjack if proven results in a warn. And then provisions under it like After two warns, the player is tempbanned for say an hour.
This is serve to reduce the confusion to a great extent
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Lock this.
It was easy to predict the finale, wasn't it? Nice try, I'll give you that :app:
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It was easy to predict the finale, wasn't it? Nice try, I'll give you that :app:
Tried to keep the conversation civil, obviously isn't working out :lol:
LOCK.
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Tried to keep the conversation civil, obviously isn't working out :lol:
LOCK.
The conversation is still civil, the outcome is just not what you wanted. The staff team has worked like this for ages, of course players will get punished, and of course people won't like it.
(http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandictionary/image/upload/a_exif,c_fit,h_200,w_200/v1395991705/gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png)