Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: wweman14 on August 14, 2015, 08:13:41 pm

Title: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: wweman14 on August 14, 2015, 08:13:41 pm
As we all know, criminals and law enforcement will always bump heads at a certain point and time. I was just recently in one of these clashes, and I noticed some aspects of the LE side that has a way bigger advantage than the criminals do.

1. The ability to restock on armor, weapons whilst in combat.
This basically guarantees the police will NOT lose to the criminals if they are in good cover and are able to access their vehicle without dying, and even sometimes taking the risk while under fire. I find this this to be very non-RP like as it would be very hard for any law enforcement to just be apply to strap on a new kevlar and new bullets for their guns, especially while bullets are whizzing all around them.

2.The ability for police to return after they have died to continue chasing said suspects.
As criminals, if we die, we cannot go back and aid our still suspected buddies, yet the police are still able to return after death and continue chasing the suspects even though they have died.

I hope the scripters or whoever is in charge of the way things work on the server (sorry for my ignorance on that) revises this and makes it fair for both sides of the coin.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Stivi on August 14, 2015, 08:17:43 pm
1. Add timer when getting armor from FBI rancher's trunk. Even though a criminal's goal is to escape, at some point you will have to fight the cops, and they just go hide at boot, shoot, then just get new armor.

2. Even though I do support, won't ever happen. Read Tiny's topic.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: eymas on August 14, 2015, 08:30:35 pm
How many more of these topics do we get, given we already had a few of them in the past.

anyway;
1: This one can be left open for discussion, although i'm sure each law enforcement group has rules against this. You could consider it healing in combat even though it isn't exactly that.

2 has been discussed over and over, and with the way the SAPD is understaffed most of the time they have a disadvantage against criminals already, no need to push them further into the dirt.
Certain groups of people already adopted the rule for themselves possibly, but there's no need to make it an official rule.
As said in the past, if a cop dies and goes back on duty, he's considered a new officer. That moniker has been there for long.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Rusty on August 14, 2015, 08:32:00 pm
We've already said we won't disallow cops from returning as times there are hardly any cops even available, in future if needed we will look into it again but not at this moment in time.  Armour can be restocked by anyone in combat, just cannot heal your health whilst cops can do it from specific vehicles that is just another benefit cops get.

These aren't unfair aspects of the game, sure you may need to run to ammu-nation to get equipment but think that will change once item storing becomes available for vehicles won't it?  You won't need to drive to a ammu-nation to buy more ammunition instead just grab it from your vehicle and off you go.

Hope this answers your two points.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: .Matthew. on August 14, 2015, 08:33:28 pm
Even though Rusty said it's allowed, it's still not allowed to us by regulations.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Luke on August 14, 2015, 09:36:46 pm
Hey while where at it, lets give the cops spoons to fight with because the police force is supposed to be less equipped then a mafia.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Devin on August 14, 2015, 09:57:19 pm
And then remove access to ammunation when you are suspected.  :rofl:
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Satoshi on August 14, 2015, 09:59:26 pm
And then remove access to ammunation when you are suspected.  :rofl:

Yeah, lol.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Mr. Goobii on August 14, 2015, 10:11:29 pm
And then remove access to ammunation when you are suspected.  :rofl:

That's bad business for me!  :(
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Kostas on August 14, 2015, 10:13:00 pm
Cops are in the disadvantage. Worst period to even consider...
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Harry on August 14, 2015, 10:15:58 pm
Hey while where at it, lets give the cops spoons to fight with because the police force is supposed to be less equipped then a mafia.

Fucking funny.

He's actually giving a good suggestion to improve the escape of criminals. You're always complaining about copbaiting, now there are white dots as suspect and longer rhl's, you're still whining about cops. SAPD is closed for volunteers and I atleast expect a bit of roleplay now, no?

Ps, another Lawrence.. Yay.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Celso on August 14, 2015, 11:55:53 pm
1. The ability to restock on armor, weapons whilst in combat. - Thats a Lie, SAPD is not allowed to equip weapons in combat.

And police has like a 20% of finding one suspected via roleplay means (phone trace) So far everyone we tried to all declined having phone/or didn't want to cooperate.
Cops aren't at an advantage but they need to be respected, today 8vs2 officers, SWAT deployd and after it some members moaned that SWAT was to ''harsh'' Really? You are holding weapons around 2 officers and SWAT is the harsh one?
Check your priorities, server is balanced if both sides know their role and SAPD has been working hard to improve it.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Chase on August 15, 2015, 12:25:21 am
This shouldn't be an issue on a roleplay server... oh wait I forgot folks have turned it into cops vs robbers.. And that's the reason I have decided among many others to no longer play on or support this community.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Volcom on August 15, 2015, 12:32:38 am
This shouldn't be an issue on a roleplay server... oh wait I forgot folks have turned it into cops vs robbers.. And that's the reason I have decided among many others to no longer play on or support this community.

if you dont support or play on this community i have one thing to tell you - Get your ass fuck out of there too, thanks
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: AK47 on August 15, 2015, 12:42:32 am
if you dont support or play on this community i have one thing to tell you - Get your ass fuck out of there too, thanks

With that attitude you shouldn't be here
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: eymas on August 15, 2015, 01:14:58 am
Because people advocate to remove or heavily restrict the C... While the R make most of the mischief...
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Celso on August 15, 2015, 01:34:59 am
And how did Argonath turned into a CnR server? I think we have way less CnR scenario now, then with the older system.
Yes SAPD placed a rule not to go for the Deathmatcher anymore.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Bundy on August 15, 2015, 01:39:14 am
I actually have an understanding for the way Chase feels. He's definitely not the first and most probably not the last either - we need changes, a new vision that everyone has to follow. Would prevent lots of disagreements, undeserved punishments, unhappy players and division between players.

You did a great job Chase, you're gonna be missed. (except for ungrateful brats wtf dude lol)
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Luke on August 15, 2015, 01:41:47 am
Chase, get back here and let me love you.

Good youtube vids, I rate mcdonalds roadtrip 10/10 would watch agen.

Serious note, agreeing with Bundy on this one also.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Ivan_MC on August 15, 2015, 01:52:52 am
Back on topic:
I am much more happy to die by the police rather then some aim-botters.

Also with the new changes with ARPD we barerly see cops online. It's like 2cops on 10criminals nowadays, so all that is not really needed ATM ( maybe in future, who knows ).
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Luke on August 15, 2015, 02:00:48 am
Back on topic:
I am much more happy to die by the police rather then some aim-botters.

Also with the new changes with ARPD we barerly see cops online. It's like 2cops on 10criminals nowadays, so all that is not really needed ATM ( maybe in future, who knows ).

Indeed, the PD at the moment is pretty understaffed, Me and others in the Academy Staff are persuing to get most of the cadets out and onto the field as soon as possible, although quantity of quality springs to mind, it would be a different type of post if we had free cops, because they would just blast you on sight  :lol:
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Malik. on August 15, 2015, 02:13:11 am
1. The ability to restock on armor, weapons whilst in combat. - Thats a Lie, SAPD is not allowed to equip weapons in combat.
It would be ideal if this would also count for FBI and SWAT.
Saw alot of restocking this afternoon.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: TruthSvensson on August 15, 2015, 02:32:01 am
I think the only problem with suspection system is now that your RHL doesn't go down when you're in your house (Not sure about this, got to experience this only once) or in a plane. But these are just minor problems anyway.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Devin on August 15, 2015, 02:36:18 am
It would be ideal if this would also count for FBI and SWAT.
Saw alot of restocking this afternoon.  :rolleyes:

They handle their own matters privately.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Dylan on August 15, 2015, 04:54:21 am
It would be ideal if this would also count for FBI and SWAT.
Saw alot of restocking this afternoon.  :rolleyes:
SWAT cannot equip in a direct combat situation, however exceptions can be made with permission from SWAT command.
An exception is for example that we are in need of a sniper rifle and did not equip one yet, but re-equiping armours or refilling ammunation was never allowed.
However it's not like SWAT got time to think about equiping once we are under fire ..
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Teddy on August 15, 2015, 05:07:30 am
if you dont support or play on this community i have one thing to tell you - Get your ass fuck out of there too, thanks

Don't you dare EVER speak to someone who volunteered months of their time to contribute to this community like this again or I will permanently remove you from this community.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Boozman on August 15, 2015, 01:29:40 pm
And what's with cops firing into crowds of civilians? Who's training these guys?
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Leroy_Kolta on August 15, 2015, 01:55:37 pm
You guys and your ideas....I just don't know anymore. I'm gonna side with Chase on this one.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Bruce. on August 15, 2015, 01:59:16 pm
I think the questions were answered... you see someone equiping during gunfight... grab a ss or record and report since as far as I read above SAPD and FBI have regulations against it... idk about CIA and MIG... but FBI and SAPD are the main focus...
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Leroy_Kolta on August 15, 2015, 02:24:48 pm
I think the questions were answered... you see someone equiping during gunfight... grab a ss or record and report since as far as I read above SAPD and FBI have regulations against it... idk about CIA and MIG... but FBI and SAPD are the main focus...
FBI has strict regulations, one of them include weapon equipping.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Cofiliano on August 15, 2015, 04:15:23 pm
Yes SAPD placed a rule not to go for the Deathmatcher anymore.
Trust me, it was both ways. At least when it comes to us.


Why would anyone delete my message to Chase? Yeah its offtopic a little, yet it was very important for him to read it. Getting a person and a scripter as Chase back, is more important then is something a little offtopic or not. Priorities for the greater good of the Community, is above formal rules on topic.

I dont know how forum moderating works, if there's a copy of my reply in some archive or database, or any possible way to access to it, can any of you please send me to my PM, so I can forward it to Chase? @BruCe @Teddy @Nathan
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Stivi on August 15, 2015, 04:56:55 pm
I don't think Bruce is a board mod here Cofi :lol:
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Teddy on August 15, 2015, 05:13:30 pm
We have made the server more friendly to criminals than it has ever been before. The challenge for cops is now double what it used to be and considering this currently flawed RHL system it's going to stay unbalanced until we change it.

There is no need to rig the odds even more for the criminals.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: TruthSvensson on August 15, 2015, 05:54:06 pm
We have made the server more friendly to criminals than it has ever been before. The challenge for cops is now double what it used to be and considering this currently flawed RHL system it's going to stay unbalanced until we change it.

There is no need to rig the odds even more for the criminals.

The fact that cops can return after death means criminals never will be the advantageous side. Not complaining, just saying.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Celso on August 15, 2015, 06:09:00 pm
The fact that cops can return after death means criminals never will be the advantageous side. Not complaining, just saying.
Criminals shouldn't have the advantages, it's not CnR where everybody is equal, but yes a roleplay server where goverment should have a lot more possibilities then the suspects.
And currently that can't be done because players still think it's a Cops and Robbers serve and want everything the same.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Marcell on August 15, 2015, 06:18:36 pm
yes a roleplay server where goverment should have a lot more possibilities then the suspects
Lol, I love how you called criminals just 'suspects', shows that you're not biased at all and totally proves that you don't treat the server as cnr, yeah.

Regarding the healing topic, cops shouldn't be allowed to heal in combat using vehicles until vehicle storing system is added, because I doubt it will be ever added, so it's not reasonable to use it as an excuse for allowing police force to just jump a few steps to their SUV and restock their armor.
I am against the idea of making cops unable to return from death though, so what you have shootout in the hood as some gangbanger and after taking down 5 cops (assuming theres 5 online) you just kick back and relax? No.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Teddy on August 15, 2015, 06:24:50 pm
The fact that cops can return after death means criminals never will be the advantageous side. Not complaining, just saying.

If your objective is to kill cops, which, considering you know... no.. then yes you are right. As a criminal your objective is to escape in which it is currently extremely easy.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Younes on August 15, 2015, 06:25:33 pm
I am against the idea of making cops unable to return from death though, so what you have shootout in the hood as some gangbanger and after taking down 5 cops (assuming theres 5 online) you just kick back and relax? No.
Indeed.

Regarding the healing topic, cops shouldn't be allowed to heal in combat using vehicles until vehicle storing system is added, because I doubt it will be ever added, so it's not reasonable to use it as an excuse for allowing police force to just jump a few steps to their SUV and restock their armor.

SAPD, FBI, and SWAT were and are never allowed to equip armour, weapons during combat. This is a rule that must be followed by each member. If you see anyone equipping himself during combat, you are free to post a complain in the correct forum (http://ARPD.argonathrpg.com/forum). I've never seen cops equipping during combat. By during combat, I mean when you are taking fire and for example you are taking cover behind your vehicle and re-equip yourself. This is not allowed and every officer knows this.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Pedro. on August 15, 2015, 06:30:02 pm
SAPD, FBI, and SWAT were and are never allowed to equip armour, weapons during combat. This is a rule that must be followed by each member. If you see anyone equipping himself during combat, you are free to post a complain in the correct forum (http://ARPD.argonathrpg.com/forum). I've never seen cops equipping during combat. By during combat, I mean when you are taking fire and for example you are taking cover behind your vehicle and re-equip yourself. This is not allowed and every officer knows this.

Someone tag here Slavik Kolta, iKhm, Mang Olas and TeaM_Arslan. Thanks.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Celso on August 15, 2015, 06:31:29 pm
Regarding the healing topic, cops shouldn't be allowed to heal in combat using vehicles until vehicle storing system is added, because I doubt it will be ever added, so it's not reasonable to use it as an excuse for allowing police force to just jump a few steps to their SUV and restock their armor.
You can report any police officer, SWAT officer, FBI Agent, that does this, With valid evidence since this is not allowed and I doubt ever happened.

EDIT:
Someone tag here Slavik Kolta, iKhm, Mang Olas and TeaM_Arslan. Thanks.
If those have done it, you should report them to their agencies.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: TruthSvensson on August 15, 2015, 06:34:33 pm
Criminals shouldn't have the advantages, it's not CnR where everybody is equal, but yes a roleplay server where goverment should have a lot more possibilities then the suspects.
And currently that can't be done because players still think it's a Cops and Robbers serve and want everything the same.
I did not mention anything that can be considered as saying "Criminals should have advantages", Teddy said that criminals have advantages, so I told him that's not the fact, in my opinion.

If your objective is to kill cops, which, considering you know... no.. then yes you are right. As a criminal your objective is to escape in which it is currently extremely easy.
This has nothing to do with what I said. I'm not talking about a hypothetical scenario where I'm trying to kill cops and they return. I'm just saying that technically criminals can't be the side with the most advantage since cops have unlimited lives. When you kill one while you're escaping or trying to hold your ground so you can get to a vehicle after getting rid of the cops, they just can come 30 seconds later and start shooting at you again. But me saying this doesn't mean that I want rule changed so cops won't be able to return, I'm okay with it.
As I said, this is not a complaint, just talking technically.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Khm on August 15, 2015, 06:36:16 pm
Someone tag here Slavik Kolta, iKhm, Mang Olas and TeaM_Arslan. Thanks.
If you're speaking about yesterday, we went back a little and stopped shooting, got everything again and restarted.
Plus I spawned in the nearest hospital in which I wasn't even armed or anything but yet got shot directly because I had blue blip on the map..
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Celso on August 15, 2015, 06:37:24 pm
If you're speaking about yesterday, we went back a little and stopped shooting, got everything again and restarted.
Plus I spawned in the nearest hospital in which I wasn't even armed or anything but yet got shot directly because I had blue blip on the map..
By the way i don't think a little counts, it's still in combat if they have vision on you or are at range to shoot you or engage you.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Pedro. on August 15, 2015, 06:39:49 pm
If you're speaking about yesterday, we went back a little and stopped shooting, got everything again and restarted.
Plus I spawned in the nearest hospital in which I wasn't even armed or anything but yet got shot directly because I had blue blip on the map..

In your 2nd try, we got your first armor and half your HP, you hid behind the wall, got a new armor and started shooting again. How's that not in combat? Of course you had to stop shooting, you couldn't do both at the same time though.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Celso on August 15, 2015, 06:41:38 pm
In your 2nd try, we got your first armor and half your HP, you hid behind the wall, got a new armor and started shooting again. How's that not in combat? Of course you had to stop shooting, you couldn't do both at the same time though.
You are correct.
And this should be addressed but not in this topic. Like I said in my previous reply, contact their agencies and speak with their superiors this topic won't change anything.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Arslan on August 15, 2015, 06:45:42 pm
Someone tag here Slavik Kolta, iKhm, Mang Olas and TeaM_Arslan. Thanks.

Considering I wasn't even there and I logged in after you were in custody, I don't know why anyone should even consider anything you say. There's a reason we ask for evidence and we've presented the solution countless times. If you fail to understand this for god knows what reason because its been written in pretty basic English, I'd prefer if you stuck to procedures and didn't cry about bullshit you've made up in your mind.

Also as soon as I saw they had you in custody, told them to let you go straightway. You know, so our /em doesn't get spammed with the role play police.

Have a nice day!  ;)
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Khm on August 15, 2015, 06:46:38 pm
By the way i don't think a little counts, it's still in combat if they have vision on you or are at range to shoot you or engage you.
Considering there was like 3 buildings between us and almost 2 roads (like 250 meters) + we went back a little it should be enough.
In your 2nd try, we got your first armor and half your HP, you hid behind the wall, got a new armor and started shooting again. How's that not in combat? Of course you had to stop shooting, you couldn't do both at the same time though.
My HP was taken out before I even engage again, like I said I spawned in that hospital and stood behind, got shot, took cover equipped myself and shot back.
Arslan wasn't there.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Pedro. on August 15, 2015, 07:09:30 pm
Considering I wasn't even there and I logged in after you were in custody, I don't know why anyone should even consider anything you say. There's a reason we ask for evidence and we've presented the solution countless times. If you fail to understand this for god knows what reason because its been written in pretty basic English, I'd prefer if you stuck to procedures and didn't cry about bullshit you've made up in your mind.

Also as soon as I saw they had you in custody, told them to let you go straightway. You know, so our /em doesn't get spammed with the role play police.

Have a nice day!  ;)

I'm sorry if you weren't there, I don't have any problems in RPing with you (FBI), you can ask Slavik about it, I complied yesterday I just don't agree with your way, yea you can call it personal.
Title: Re: Unfairness in certain aspects of the Law Enforcement. [SA:MP]
Post by: Rusty on August 15, 2015, 07:11:04 pm
Answer to OP was given no need for pointless discussions about unrelated situations.  See this (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=113338.msg1783160#msg1783160) and this. (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=113338.msg1783161#msg1783161)
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