Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Devin on September 13, 2015, 09:52:29 am

Title: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on September 13, 2015, 09:52:29 am
It's time to straighten this out as people are unable to understand what admins tell them.

If you are going to gamble in a casino, then you use money to place your bet. Money, not a vehicle or property that you will then sell to pay if you lose.
If you want to use a property or vehicle as collateral for your gambling, then sell the vehicle or property and take that money with you to the casino.

~ Scamming in the casino is NOT allowed; whether that's through the scripted gambling (automated systems ex; blackjack) or  /dice (/use).

You are not allowed to go to the casino and place bets with no money and claim "I will sell this or that to pay if I lose". That will no longer be allowed as a form of payment for bets.


Cash bets or no bets. Your choice.

*Only the bet will be returned; not the money that would have been included in the winnings.



Illegal gambling (outside of a casino) has no rules, but it also has no protection from scamming. Don't come running to staff members if someone scams you when you're gambling with a player outside of a casino as we have no reason to deal with it.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Corey. on September 13, 2015, 10:10:07 am
What if they still do this? this will lead them to ban?
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on September 13, 2015, 10:21:05 am
It will lead to punishment as it's not a legal form of gambling inside of a casino. All dependent on the administrators discretion. Be that a tempban or full ban.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Corey. on September 13, 2015, 10:22:51 am
It will lead to punishment as it's not a legal form of gambling inside of a casino. All dependent on the administrators discretion. Be that a tempban or full ban.

Alright thanks.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Spike. on September 13, 2015, 01:03:01 pm
What if /dice is added so people can do raffles and such?
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Brian on September 13, 2015, 01:08:21 pm
Yes, I have this bookmarked now.

What if /dice is added so people can do raffles and such?

You know honestly, we could spend more time actually scripting if we spent less time replying with the same messages to the same suggestions. I think in the last week alone I've said the same thing about this at least 5 times.

We have a plan and it's not as simple as copy-pasting from RS4. It will be re-introduced.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: CharlieKasper on September 13, 2015, 01:26:24 pm

You know he's not asking when /dice will be added...
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Seskom on September 13, 2015, 01:30:29 pm
It will lead to punishment as it's not a legal form of gambling inside of a casino. All dependent on the administrators discretion. Be that a tempban or full ban.

Cops should handle illegal gambling ;)

If both parties agree to gamble on an object it would be ridiculus to make it against the rules.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Celso on September 13, 2015, 02:07:25 pm
Shouldn't it be more  of a roleplay situation then a admin situation? Scamming new players i understand but if they are both agreeing on something and one ends up not paying it should be a police issue not server administration.. 
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: eymas on September 13, 2015, 02:09:36 pm
Because it was never intended to allow gambling with objects, and as said its ridiculously easy to scam on it.
Just like how I said you could emulate /dice by rolling dice in real life (which every household would have), trusting the player is the seesaw where things can go horribly wrong.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Brian on September 13, 2015, 02:24:09 pm
Cops should handle illegal gambling ;)

If both parties agree to gamble on an object it would be ridiculus to make it against the rules.
Shouldn't it be more  of a roleplay situation then a admin situation? Scamming new players i understand but if they are both agreeing on something and one ends up not paying it should be a police issue not server administration.. 
It should but it wouldn't fit with Argonath, cops do not have the ability to seize items, nor the ability to check evidence to see if someone actually did gamble, did bet, etc, etc. And if we would allow it, staff would just constantly get PMed with .. scammed me, .. scammed that guy, etc. That's why the automated script was made, so people were not able to scam as they would bet money and it'll actually scriptly be sent to the other player.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on September 13, 2015, 04:10:37 pm
Cops should handle illegal gambling ;)

If both parties agree to gamble on an object it would be ridiculus to make it against the rules.

Illegal gambling (gambling outside of a casino) has no rules but it also has no protection from staff which is what I am saying.
If people want to gamble with other assets, properties or vehicles then do so outside of a casino.

Any deals made within a casino are cash bets.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Corey. on September 13, 2015, 04:12:25 pm

If people want to gamble with other assets, properties or vehicles then do so outside of a casino.



You Can't gamble outside of Casino tho.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Stivi on September 13, 2015, 04:12:36 pm
But you can't gamble outside a casino >.<
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Salmonella on September 13, 2015, 04:16:56 pm
of course you can

just roll a dice IRL and type the results in /l  :D
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Brian on September 13, 2015, 04:27:20 pm
of course you can

just roll a dice IRL and type the results in /l  :D

Hire someone to live-stream it on tinychat for you (rofl)
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Corey. on September 13, 2015, 04:45:29 pm
of course you can

just roll a dice IRL and type the results in /l  :D

Better /me instead of /l
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Salmonella on September 13, 2015, 04:45:42 pm
Hire someone to live-stream it on tinychat for you (rofl)

this is the kind of creative genius you need in RS5  :bananarock: :jackson:
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on September 13, 2015, 04:47:17 pm
Hire someone to live-stream it on tinychat for you (rofl)

What's next? Hosting a SA:MP server costs money and all, why not just make a Skype convo for all the players and talk in /me's and in Instant Messages. That way noone can abuse the script and everyone can roleplay...

Jesus, you people never get it, do you?
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Brian on September 13, 2015, 04:57:44 pm
What's next? Hosting a SA:MP server costs money and all, why not just make a Skype convo for all the players and talk in /me's and in Instant Messages. That way noone can abuse the script and everyone can roleplay...

Jesus, you people never get it, do you?
Jezus, someone clearly doesn't get a joke.

If you really want to know, I think that people should be able to use blackjack scripts out of casinos, but it won't have the protection, you play blackjack, but you don't have 'set bets'. You play without anything and hope the other party will pay up.
Same for Dice, in a casino you can only do it with protection (aka set bets and set games).
Out of casinos you can do it old school.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Salmonella on September 13, 2015, 05:01:14 pm
That's how you -want- it to be, right? Or am I missing out on something ingame right now?

Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Marcel on September 13, 2015, 05:02:07 pm
What's next? Hosting a SA:MP server costs money and all, why not just make a Skype convo for all the players and talk in /me's and in Instant Messages. That way noone can abuse the script and everyone can roleplay...

Jesus, you people never get it, do you?
No need to get down to a provocative level. Keep it nice.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Brian on September 13, 2015, 05:04:15 pm
That's how you -want- it to be, right? Or am I missing out on something ingame right now?



That's how I'd like it to be.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Salmonella on September 13, 2015, 05:08:20 pm
oh, well for now i'll stick to my BLOKKER dice then :D
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Kimya. on September 13, 2015, 05:13:10 pm
Sorry, There is no /bjhost anymore ?
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: MrTony on September 13, 2015, 05:19:39 pm
A problem with this game stems from players not really caring about dying. let's just say that someone loses 100k on an illegal gambling match and he doesn't want to pay up. so they do a 5 minute roleplay where the one person holds a gun up to the loser's face and the other guy pretends to be scared while PMing him to just kill him already. done.

the server should have real impact, when you die you should lose a lot of shit, that way death is actually something with gravity and something that every player should try to avoid at all costs. to refer back to my earlier example of gambling, if there were real consequences, the player who bet 100k could actually promise to pay later and a whole new world of roleplay scenarios could open up with this (i.e. loan sharks going after him once in a while)
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on September 17, 2015, 02:47:23 pm
You are not allowed to go to the casino and place bets with no money and claim "I will sell this or that to pay if I lose". That will no longer be allowed as a form of payment for bets.


Cash bets or no bets. Your choice.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: SkyHawk on September 17, 2015, 05:44:31 pm
Allowing individuals to claim bets with assets in their possession only allows the opportunity to lead to potential scams if they lose the bet in the first place. There is no binding agreement that forces them to actually sell their assets to pay off a gambling debt and there is no way from an admin to enforce this rule fairly. If you want to gamble, sell the assets you claim are your collateral and bring your cash with you, if you have a hard time doing that, then I'm lead to believe you wouldn't have sold the assets if you had lost the bet anyways.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Reasy on September 17, 2015, 10:22:15 pm
Hello.
I would like to state my point of view about the current gambling script.
In my point of view the current gambling script is kinda complicated for a new player , It for sure will take him time to understand how it completely works.
Its not the problem tho , They could learn how it actually works in a small period of time.
The essential problem is with the gambling script it self , You will always have the chance to lose.
Example : If you place a bet on a big ammount of money , you do /bjjoin .... then /bjready , You will start with a number you haven't thrown yet , Which might be 15 or 17 or any number , Actually this is not a pretty good idea , I would like to suggesst you guys a suggesstion which might be helpful and useful.

Whenever i wanna join a BlackJack game , It would be great if i begin with the number zero , It will be a great idea if you could activiate it tho.

You will join the BlackJack Game feeling comfortable as long as you know that you will start with zero , not with 15 or 17 , You will become into an embarrassing stance and you will no longer know what exactly you should do in this case.

I think if this suggesstion would be applied , It will attract the players who have never joined the casino to have at least one try.

I gently ask you guys to take this as a considerable suggesstion.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Pizza4_Games on September 17, 2015, 10:33:42 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackjack

The use of casinos on argonath is only blackjack, i suppose we had /dice back in rs4(correct me if am wrong) but uhh.... "Casino Owners" need to start putting more work on hiring bartenders/Exchangers/Highstakers/Lowstakers/Security Guards to be more realistic because its just... meh now, even gangsters are gambling  :lol:.

Also you can bring back dice and maybe add something more like poker script.
You can also allow "raffle" with a casino owner's permission... like you could raffle a car thats cool or something.(the drill is you have to get the same numbers 3 times in a row either you lose)...
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Rusty on September 17, 2015, 10:49:37 pm
This isn't a topic to suggest things.  Take them to the ideas board.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on January 01, 2016, 12:59:19 am
~ Scamming in the casino is NOT allowed; whether that's through the scripted gambling (automated systems ex; blackjack) or  /dice (/use).

First post updated with the following portion to resolve confusion. Scamming via /dice (/use) bets will be classed the same as any other legal deal such as property or vehicle deals.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: TiMoN on January 01, 2016, 02:19:32 am
Might as well replace it with good old /dice then.

Oh and could you please tell us what an illegal casino is? There's nothing in the constitution that defines a casino as legal or illegal.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Mikal on January 01, 2016, 02:21:46 am
To be honest I thought any casino outside of Las Venturas was illegal, but I have no idea now... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on January 01, 2016, 11:11:58 am
Gambling in a random business, in a house or outside of LV is classed as illegal gambling.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Stivi on January 01, 2016, 11:34:35 am
Gambling in a random business, in a house or outside of LV is classed as illegal gambling.
Illegal as in no scam-support?
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: eymas on January 01, 2016, 11:44:58 am
Illegal as in no scam-support?
yup.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: TiMoN on January 01, 2016, 11:51:07 am
Gambling in a random business, in a house or outside of LV is classed as illegal gambling.
What about the big building with "CASINO" on it in SF?
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: eymas on January 01, 2016, 12:09:49 pm
What about the big building with "CASINO" on it in SF?
This would be legal for now.
Consider officially branded casino buildings (as in done by samp management) in general as legal entities.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: TiMoN on January 01, 2016, 12:16:16 pm
This would be legal for now.
Consider officially branded casino buildings (as in done by samp management) in general as legal entities.
IMO Mayors should start offering gambling licenses for bars, nightclubs and diners, but inactivity is far better.
Thanks for your response.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Kimya. on January 01, 2016, 12:17:02 pm
The casino is outside LV, therefore it's illegal gambling, even if someone tried to scam a player, it's impossible because no poker table is inside the casino and no owner to set one.

As far as i know Teddy will change the interior\building sooner or later, I usually gamble inside Royal Casino to avoid getting scammed by someone.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: eymas on January 01, 2016, 12:26:03 pm
It's indeed recommended to keep gambling into LV only, and into the casinos as well. Anywhere outside you need to be careful, as usual.
The SF casino is an odd case I can't explain in full detail, it's like an oasis in the desert.  :neutral2:
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Whiteman on January 01, 2016, 03:31:09 pm
Mayors should start offering gambling licenses for bars, nightclubs and diners.
As well as liquor licenses to sell alcohol etc.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Gandalf on January 01, 2016, 04:19:15 pm
Scamming in legal casino's is also the responsibility of the onwer. There are various roleplay scnearios and court cases thinkable where owners can be forced to prevent from scamming happening in their business.

As for illegal casino's. I wonder why those have not yet gotten attention from FBI or CIA. After all illegal means that it very likely funds criminal activity.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on January 01, 2016, 04:27:48 pm
Scamming in legal casino's is also the responsibility of the onwer. There are various roleplay scnearios and court cases thinkable where owners can be forced to prevent from scamming happening in their business.

This would be enforceable if the casinos used were owned by players that are actually hiring staff; sadly the majority of the casinos are unowned and most of the time it's random players playing the dealer inside.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Gandalf on January 01, 2016, 04:31:46 pm
This would be enforceable if the casinos used were owned by players that are actually hiring staff; sadly the majority of the casinos are unowned and most of the time it's random players playing the dealer inside.
lock the ones that are not owned and oblige players to have control over what happens in their business.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on January 01, 2016, 04:37:09 pm
This would be enforceable if the casinos used were owned by players that are actually hiring staff; sadly the majority of the casinos are unowned and most of the time it's random players playing the dealer inside.

Whilst they are not sold, you would expect them to still be the property of the state, ergo the reason why people can just enter and become a dealer as they're property of the public and usually unless there is a clear restriction placed, the public usually can go wherever it wants.

If the state lets people walk around and use its unsold property then it should be responsible for things that go on inside with regards to consumer protection and crime deterrence. The state should call on the SAPD / FBI to actively investigate the gambling industry or just lock the unsold casinos.

If anything, the casinos should be state owned with tax revenue from each gamble / trade going to state. So it's not the state gambling money but rather supervision of gambling to ensure criminals don't make money off it or to provide safer gambling.

If some one wants to buy the casino off the state they can still.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Khm on January 01, 2016, 04:39:44 pm
As for illegal casino's. I wonder why those have not yet gotten attention from FBI or CIA. After all illegal means that it very likely funds criminal activity.
Believe me they did, just not official yet. :)
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on January 01, 2016, 04:41:22 pm
Believe me they did, just not official yet. :)

Nice... you just broke their cover...

But on a serious note, if there is no action taken then what's the point? They might as well hand out drugs to see who will sell them and then just stare at them.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: MrTrane on January 01, 2016, 04:46:37 pm
lock the ones that are not owned and oblige players to have control over what happens in their business.
That should be a good solution for the time being, seeing the daily problems that arise from casinos and people abusing/overusing them.
It will put some sense and reason into owning casinos and the owners could hire staff to operate on them, casinos should been used as a way to try your luck and engage your daily roleplay not as a place for ban evaders and troublemakers who scam people to stay there 24/7 and not contribute at all to the server.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on January 01, 2016, 04:49:11 pm
That should be a good solution for the time being, seeing the daily problems that arise from casinos and people abusing/overusing them.
It will put some sense and reason into owning casinos and the owners could hire staff to operate on them, casinos should been used as a way to try your luck and engage your daily roleplay not as a place for ban evaders and troublemakers who scam people to stay there 24/7 and not contribute at all to the server.

Well it makes sense.
Unless you're having an open house, you lock the property or only give keys to trusted people like real estate agents.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on January 01, 2016, 04:56:34 pm
lock the ones that are not owned and oblige players to have control over what happens in their business.

Unowned casinos are now locked. There is a single state casino set at Caligulas and another one currently owned on the strip.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on January 01, 2016, 05:06:25 pm
Unowned casinos are now locked. There is a single state casino set at Caligulas and another one currently owned on the strip.

The state should hire some dealers for the state casino or a tax collector.
25 per cent of bets placed should go to the state.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: TiMoN on January 01, 2016, 05:12:46 pm
This would be enforceable if the casinos used were owned by players that are actually hiring staff; sadly the majority of the casinos are unowned and most of the time it's random players playing the dealer inside.
Maybe if they were cheaper and/or players were able to make actual money for them they'd buy them.

State casinos should be closed, what's the point of locking all others if you're leaving one open? You're just stacking scammers together under one rooftop.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on January 01, 2016, 05:18:09 pm
Maybe if they were cheaper and/or players were able to make actual money for them they'd buy them.

State casinos should be closed, what's the point of locking all others if you're leaving one open? You're just stacking scammers together under one rooftop.

Casino prices are going to be set to more reasonable amounts. Perhaps the state one will be changed if need be.
Would you go to a casino providing secure gambling or one that has the risk of being scammed at the end of the day?
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Gnb_22 on January 01, 2016, 05:31:09 pm
lock the ones that are not owned and oblige players to have control over what happens in their business.


Whats the point of doing this when the rules already cover them seeing as they are valid casinos and scamming isnt allowed inside them period ?
I'm lazy and don't like driving half way up the damn strip to go to caligula's
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Stivi on January 01, 2016, 06:01:16 pm
The state casino is pointless, provided that there are available casinos. People can afford them, but there is no reason to buy them.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Whiteman on January 01, 2016, 06:05:14 pm
I suggest the government (mayors) to be able to lease out businesses (such as casinos) to citizens for a certain monthly fee. This way we can motivate the business owners to keep their businesses open more actively, also not everyone will be able to lease, there will be requirements for staff etc.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on January 01, 2016, 06:05:33 pm

Whats the point of doing this when the rules already cover them seeing as they are valid casinos and scamming isnt allowed inside them period ?
I'm lazy and don't like driving half way up the damn strip to go to caligula's

You don't need to gamble if it's too much effort to drive up the road.  :neutral2:

I'm lazy

Solve that and you will be sorted.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: eymas on January 05, 2016, 03:29:56 pm
Again, tell your friends, your cousins, your families, your multiple accounts we haven't banned yet and your pets.

You're not allowed to gamble with vehicles/houses in a casino, Sell them first and use the money.
You will be punished if you choose to ignore this.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: TiMoN on January 05, 2016, 03:48:00 pm
You're not allowed to gamble with vehicles/houses in a casino, Sell them first and use the money.
Does this include illegal ones too? I'm confused af now. You guys should start using the terms legal and illegal when putting casino rules.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Devin on January 05, 2016, 04:09:37 pm
Casino - Legal.
It should be self explanatory. Illegal gambling which takes place outside of a casino - no rules.
Title: Re: Regarding Casinos and Gambling
Post by: Cofiliano on January 05, 2016, 04:16:45 pm
Casino prices are going to be set to more reasonable amounts. Perhaps the state one will be
Put them on the price they were at rs4. Caligulas was around 32mil, and 4D Casino was around 17-20mil. You might think now that's still high, yet players used to own all of them in RS4, so in future they'll be subjects of purchasing. Together with this, Casino should generate profits for their owners, non connected to their usages, since its a huge investment that people will have to give. Real players leaving cash in them, should just be a bonus, like it actually happens in real life when high rollers visits Casinos.

Same goes for LV Hotels they need to be lowered to a couple of millions except the big ones such as Emerald Visage etc which should be around 8-10mil, and have a developed profit script that's not connected of the amount of rooms people use. This is about Hotels in general.

There are many small Casinos in LV that people can buy for a milion or two, and we don't want to reach the moment where everything is bought just after 2 years of the start of RS5, because that's how it was at the end of RS4.

Lowering down the prices yes, but not too much specially not without a proper profit script implemented.
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