Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 08:35:48 pm

Title: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 08:35:48 pm
Lets just stop having the server be a bloody team deathmatch server and getting all sorts of fucking complaints from both sides as it's demotivating all of us, managers, sapd leaders, fbi leaders, players themselves...

Let us bash the heads together and find a solution to stop the constant witchhunting against each other as I am getting bloody tired from hearing the crying all the time.
What could the players do to stop the ongoing war, and what could HQ do to help this?

As I see it now the only solution we are going to is either to forbid interaction or kill off a certain group to prevent further poisoning. That or I would give up hope on salvaging this community.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 17, 2016, 08:43:15 pm
Script a wall between Flint county LS and SF, Make Border patrols..

Or you can just kill Off ARPD if you are going in that direction.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Chase on May 17, 2016, 08:44:17 pm
This is why Gandalf was against allowing terrorist groups in Argonath. It's hard to do it without this type of fiasco being created.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: McGarrett on May 17, 2016, 08:46:58 pm
Personally, I feel that FLA is using their group as an excuse to be excluded from rules such as deathmatching. I was once in game, did not even know of the presence of any group called FLA, and I was patrolling in a helicopter. I drove over Angel Pine and was met with gun fire and was almost shot down.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Luke on May 17, 2016, 08:48:05 pm
The biggest issue is the fact that its rather a ego war then a roleplayed one.  :neutral2:
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Julio. on May 17, 2016, 08:49:21 pm
This is indeed a dilemma.

Both sides should've been accepting that there's a decent chance they're going to die, and follow the basic rules of engagement, one being, not returning after death from either side (though I haven't personally heard anything of this nature).

Recently I saw a player moan about being DM'd twice after he'd already died in Angel Pine - The easy solution for this player would've been not to moan, and choose to spawn elsewhere, else enter an interior. Just because one SAPD Officer kills you doesn't make the others mind-readers and knowing you already died.

I wouldn't kill off any group because I suspect that would have ramifications past "a group being removed," I think there would be some sort of exodus.

By "certain group," we know which group is meant, but as the conflicts go, both "teams" are as bad as one another, so you couldn't deal out fair punishment.

Both groups just need to seriously tone it down, I've seen cops provoking FLA, I've seen FLA provoking cops, from an RP scenario, what does one side gain from these repeated shootouts? Fair enough, the odd shootout is to be expected, but to be at the point where we're seeing essentially the whole of the IG SAPD group vs all the FLA guys online in a shootout is ridiculous.

My official suggestion, rather than making this an administrative issue, would be to re-open an Army style group and impose marshall law on Flint County. I would opt to handpick the players that went into this group, and if there were ANY complaints, I would shut both down. Basic street cops should not have the resources (short of SWAT), to be dealing with a rebellion.

But that's my two cents on the matter, I know some will disagree, but in the best interests of both parties I think this is one of the only valid solutions.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: .Matthew. on May 17, 2016, 08:51:19 pm
What'll creation of army bring? there's still gonna be continued blood and shootout daily. The point would be to stop the shooting and provocations and start to roleplay so both sides are good. Mikal is there thinking chopping people's fingers off, burning their faces, wearing masks, using some Anti-DNA shit chemistry is realistic.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 17, 2016, 08:54:36 pm
This is why Gandalf was against allowing terrorist groups in Argonath. It's hard to do it without this type of fiasco being created.
FLA isn't a terror group. :uhm:

Personally, I feel that FLA is using their group as an excuse to be excluded from rules such as deathmatching. I was once in game, did not even know of the presence of any group called FLA, and I was patrolling in a helicopter. I drove over Angel Pine and was met with gun fire and was almost shot down.
Oh right, you were just randomly patrolling the dead back'o'beyond where little to no players go, and despite FLA's topic being the most posted in lately, you didn't know about their existence... :rolleyes:




It was always pretty clear to me how this would turn out, the thing is, I don't think there's ever been as big of a challenge to law enforcement as FLA is and that would be why things have escalated so much between both sides, if you ask me what started all the chaos - that incident with SWAT and their tasers in Flint County, but they will say it was the situation at LS bank in which we killed them all with RPG's, etc, but I guess we'll leave that in the past now.

At the end of the day, it is law enforcement who come to us, it is law enforcement who block what we claim to be our roads, forcing us to go and remove them, if law enforcement did not come to us, we would not go to them, there would be no fighting, surely that would be best, since the job of law enforcement is meant to be to keep the peace, the only solution to end all this is an independent Flint Country.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Luke on May 17, 2016, 08:56:28 pm
At the end of the day, it is law enforcement who come to us, it is law enforcement who block what we claim to be our roads, forcing us to go and remove them, if law enforcement did not come to us, we would not go to them, there would be no fighting, surely that would be best, since the job of law enforcement is meant to be to keep the peace, the only solution to end all this is an independent Flint Country.

Seen it 3 days in a row, getting a little boring now.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 09:01:05 pm
The goal is to get rid of all the shootouts, adding more subjects would not help, like the wall or border patrol things.

Closing FLA is an option I would rather not take, but I feel we aren't getting to any other option if they remain on their set goal of bullying the ARPD. I liked their idea of an independent country with their own lifestyle but so far it's just a covert TDM, alas from what I keep hearing... The ARPD keeps fueling this as well.

I doubt anyone enjoys SA:MP anymore thanks to this global war, and we must come to a solution to keep both groups happy to a degree.

Practically, From what I understood. FLA just wants to have an independent country acknowledged by the state of argonath. De facto this isn't required as you can already roleplay this by our ruling. Players have the choice to accept or refuse this as they travel through flint county. They cannot be forced to comply with the policies that this country would then enforce. That way one part of the entire shitstorm is potentially solved.

This picture comes to mind.
(http://i.imgur.com/ixGOyiM.png)
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Kaze on May 17, 2016, 09:03:44 pm
Players that play as cops in the game think they have the privilege and the power to do as they please ingame. I don't give a fuck if a badge means something to you I would slit your throat just as easy as I would to a homeless man.

This is like the Stanford Prison experiment where the police think they have more power than us. Simply tell the cops to get down from lala land and accept the fact that you can't stop a rebellion like that just because you carry a badge.

You either fight against the rebellion the right way or stop the bullshit. Going to them 24/7 guns blazing clearly isn't working for you. Did it take 3 minutes for the USA to find and kill Bin Laden? It takes time. Although I don't feel the need to offer my assistance to those who roleplay as cops I think it's time. Here's a hint. Take them down one at a time. Start from the bottom of the chain and work your way up. Get some dirt on each player and it take it through court then if the judge pleads guilty the defendant has a restraining order to be within that particular area. This is just an example of how you can attack an issue as a team.

A bunch of idiots really want to ruin a unique roleplay just because they disagree with a part of the map being independent; When was the last time you saw a successful group like this with unique objectives? unbelievable. How about the ARPD sponsors/supports a Legal party in dismembering the FLA? Find other ways. I'm tired of all your bullshit. This doesn't just go towards cops because a couple of criminals groups really get on my tits.

I'm done here. I hope the HQ respects and takes my opinion above into consideration.

*Drops mic*

@eymas
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Luke on May 17, 2016, 09:04:06 pm
Aye, don't come to us, and there will be no shootout.

You dont get what I mean  ;)
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 09:06:40 pm
It was always pretty clear to me how this would turn out, the thing is, I don't think there's ever been as big of a challenge to law enforcement as FLA is and that would be why things have escalated so much between both sides, if you ask me what started all the chaos - that incident with SWAT and their tasers in Flint County, but they will say it was the situation at LS bank in which we killed them all with RPG's, etc, but I guess we'll leave that in the past now.

At the end of the day, it is law enforcement who come to us, it is law enforcement who block what we claim to be our roads, forcing us to go and remove them, if law enforcement did not come to us, we would not go to them, there would be no fighting, surely that would be best, since the job of law enforcement is meant to be to keep the peace, the only solution to end all this is an independent Flint Country.
I have heard that your group also searches up the ARPD itself. So you're the pot calling the kettle black.

I suggest you come up with constructive arguments rather than to pretend you're untouchable. You're the one that I have sights on in the first place, You started this, and if you only prove your group solely exists to provoke the ARPD then I see no option but to remove you and/or the group.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: .Matthew. on May 17, 2016, 09:06:54 pm
First of all, they're not gonna get an independent country. None from Law Enforcement is gonna let that happen. It's normal and it wouldn't be let done in real life either, imagine some militia in USA rebelling against government. Oh wait, it happened. Take Oregon Militia as example.

This video specifically:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5w99LTKEA0

Look at the way situation goes. Both sides speak normally, there's no "piss off or we shoot you", "CLOSE SWAT CLOSE FBI CLOSE SAPD" and that kind of shit. It's realistic talk with realistic expectations. If FLA would work the same way and allow us to approach diplomatically, we'd be doing that. By now, whenever I tried to do it, they put some unrealistic demands and later on initiate a shootout after their unrealistic demands get neglected.

And they claim we have the "must win" attitude. Look at Mikal himself, gets arrested and there has to be an admin on scene to make him play along. And he tells the admin himself "ban me". Pathetic.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Julio. on May 17, 2016, 09:08:20 pm
Players that play as cops in the game think they have the privilege and the power to do as they please ingame. I don't give a fuck if a badge means something to you I would slit your throat just as easy as I would to a homeless man.

This is like the Stanford Prison experiment where the police think they have more power than us. Simply tell the cops to get down from lala land and accept the fact that you can't stop a rebellion like that just because you carry a badge.

You either fight against the rebellion the right way or stop the bullshit. Going to them 24/7 guns blazing clearly isn't working for you. Did it take 3 minutes for the USA to find and kill Bin Laden? It takes time. Although I don't feel the need to offer my assistance to those who roleplay as cops I think it's time. Here's a hint. Take them down one at a time. Start from the bottom of the chain and work your way up. Get some dirt on each player and it take it through court then if the judge pleads guilty the defendant has a restraining order to be within that particular area. This is just an example of how you can attack an issue as a team.

A bunch of idiots really want to ruin a unique roleplay just because they disagree with a part of the map being independent; When was the last time you saw a successful group like this with unique objectives? unbelievable. How about the ARPD sponsors/supports a Legal party in dismembering the FLA? Find other ways. I'm tired of all your bullshit. This doesn't just go towards cops because a couple of criminals groups really get on my tits.

I'm done here. I hope the HQ respects and takes my opinion above into consideration.

*Drops mic*

@eymas

Only problem being that even if we kill the head of the snake in this case, the head comes back (in a different situation obviously)  :lol:

What are the objectives? There's never, ever going to be a formal proposal to "liberate" Flint Count from the rest of the map.

This is all fine if your objectives are attainable, but are they?
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 09:11:44 pm
Again. Instead of arguing about rights or wrongs. Try aiming to solutions that we can all agree on.

We all know that we want both groups to ignore each other, and this is achievable if the players follow this.
We cannot make it a server rule to forbid interaction between the groups. Neither can we perform impossible miracles.

Think outside of the box, like i've said you already have most of what you desire if you look at it from the rules.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 17, 2016, 09:14:25 pm
Closing FLA is an option I would rather not take, but I feel we aren't getting to any other option if they remain on their set goal of bullying the ARPD. I liked their idea of an independent country with their own lifestyle but so far it's just a covert TDM, alas from what I keep hearing... The ARPD keeps fueling this as well.

I doubt anyone enjoys SA:MP anymore thanks to this global war, and we must come to a solution to keep both groups happy to a degree.

Practically, From what I understood. FLA just wants to have an independent country acknowledged by the state of argonath. De facto this isn't required as you can already roleplay this by our ruling. Players have the choice to accept or refuse this as they travel through flint county. They cannot be forced to comply with the policies that this country would then enforce. That way one part of the entire shitstorm is potentially solved.
:lol:

The thing is, FLA is pretty much the most active non-law enforcement group on the server, what we do is what is keeping players coming on, a few have actually told me they only came back for FLA, I'm not gloating, I'm seeing it how it is, despite RS5.2 the server population has once again dropped and now you think you can come over here suggesting to close one of the things keeping it going, as I've said, if police didn't come to us or block what we call our borders, there would be no shootout, how many times do I have to say that? It's not like we actively group up and then going into Los Santos looking for cops to kill, and I feel like that's what you're making it out we do...

I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

(http://i.imgur.com/qLawblx.jpg)

First of all, they're not gonna get an independent country. None from Law Enforcement is gonna let that happen. It's normal and it wouldn't be let done in real life either, imagine some militia in USA rebelling against government. Oh wait, it happened. Take Oregon Militia as example.
You are pretty much not in a position to dictate wether we get independence or not, that is up to Gandalf/HQ, and the only way the shooting is going to stop is, well, either law enforcement stops coming to us, or Flint Country gets independence.

Try aiming to solutions that we can all agree on.
Independence?
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Axison on May 17, 2016, 09:17:05 pm
Turn this into a role play situation. If the ARPD can't deal with this(which they clearly can't) then give FLA what they want. I haven't seen any roleplay from the cops against FLA besides guns blazing(sorry if i sound a little biased). And what Kaze said, its been a long time since i've seen a group with such a unique goal. Free Flint!
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Justin39 on May 17, 2016, 09:18:05 pm
Yes, it's always guns blazing because if cops enter Flint County, we get shot at.  Obviously we'll retaliate.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Kaze on May 17, 2016, 09:18:45 pm
Only problem being that even if we kill the head of the snake in this case, the head comes back (in a different situation obviously)  :lol:

What are the objectives? There's never, ever going to be a formal proposal to "liberate" Flint Count from the rest of the map.

This is all fine if your objectives are attainable, but are they?

Yeah, first of all I want to apologize for generalizing all LEOs. Let's say MAJORITY of cops (relating back to my previous post).

Well, let's say a restraining order would last from 5-21 days. I don't see FLA as a terrorist group. They are just playing your game. You come with guns? They would respond with guns. Leave them alone, they should leave you alone too.

I've been wanted to start a Nazi group for ages now but can't because of the players in this community. If I take over in a territory and say 'no blacks' I'd get 24/7 moans.

UNLESS THEY ARE A SUSPECT, LET THEM BE.

If FLA is bothering you, why don't you stop big families like Corleone and Gvardia who allegedly deal with drugs in big batches. Two families dealing with 200kg of cocaine doesn't concern you but a party who wants independence does? Give me a break.

I am not part of FLA nor any other group for that matter. My views on this is strictly neutral.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Chase on May 17, 2016, 09:20:33 pm
The only suggestion I have in mind is how some big wars in our history have resulted to - Cease fire agreement aka. Armistice

Kinda think of it like the issue with North Korea vs South Korea. They are technically at war still but agreed to a cease fire. Some flare ups could occur  in or around the DMZ, but usually its not long term. And anyone who decides to go to North Korea does it at their own peril.

Maybe the same can apply here?

It's the only roleplay peaceful option I see.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 17, 2016, 09:21:59 pm
I haven't seen any roleplay from the cops against FLA besides guns blazing(sorry if i sound a little biased).
I'll be honest, FLA haven't roleplayed at all lately, we don't have time to, as soon as we group up to do something there's a mob of angry cops waiting to close the roads or generally come to Angel Pine to 'patrol'.

Yes, it's always guns blazing because if cops enter Flint County, we get shot at.  Obviously we'll retaliate.
Entering rebel held territory gets law enforcement/(uh, army) shot at, just as it would in reality.

Kinda think of it like the issue with North Korea vs South Korea.
Aye, so lets create a cease fire, during this, law enforcement will stay out of 'Flint Country', we can organise it in RP if you like.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: .Matthew. on May 17, 2016, 09:22:05 pm
I don't get people saying "cops can't deal with it". Tell us what do you expect us to do? realistically, you want us to walk to them and talk? I've tried that many times and as I said earlier, they submit unrealistic demands which cannot be executed. They don't care about roleplaying along with ARPD, they just want to win. That's what I call a must win attitude. Numerous times I try to end the situation diplomatically by just talking and negotiating. Never had it worked. Even though I go down and say I understand them and their issues and ask for understanding, they just wanna make a shootout and win. And then again, when we respond in such a manner in which we defend the country itself from these rebels, the other side of Argonath (since argonath has 2 sides - cops and robbers), steps in and says we can't deal with FLA. If there was a proper unbiased neutral party in Argonath, those neutral citizens, then we'd hear different opinions. But since it's all built up by either a cop or a criminal, it'll be constant TDM. And I'd for sure love more than anything going back to gangs and mafias. Good times those were.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 09:23:56 pm
Like i have said, You already have your independence if we look at the server rules.

Basically, You and players that want can roleplay your country already.
The passerby players however have the choice to accept or deny playing along, and cannot be forced to follow your country's playstyle.
Dito for the ARPD, They cannot be restricted from entering the county upon pursuits or patrols, Their job covers the state in the first place.
You can't shoot them on sight either, since that's deathmatching. Rebel or not. Shouldn't exploit it as an excuse either.

This hopefully gets us a little closer to the ceasefire chase mentioned  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 17, 2016, 09:26:36 pm
Like i have said, You already have your independence if we look at the server rules.

Basically, You and players that want can roleplay your country already.
The passerby players however have the choice to accept or deny playing along, and cannot be forced to follow your country's playstyle.
Dito for the ARPD, They cannot be restricted from entering the county upon pursuits or patrols, Their job covers the state in the first place.
You can't shoot them on sight either, since that's deathmatching. Rebel or not. Shouldn't exploit it as an excuse either.

This hopefully gets us a little closer to the ceasefire chase mentioned  :rolleyes:
What you have said gets us no closer, but I guess FLA and law enforcements leaders can try to broker something in-game.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: .Matthew. on May 17, 2016, 09:26:55 pm
They can roleplay all they want their rebel group. If they do it properly however. If they decide to make a roadblock, and get approached by Police and FBI, they should play along. They can't expect us to execute their unrealistic demands. I'm there to roleplay as an FBI Agent, they're there to roleplay as rebels. Watch how it works on youtube and come back and play along. You're acting as if it's normal for rebels to block roads in real life and let it be tolerated by cops, or shoot on sight. Well then my friend, you get done properly by an unmanned predator drone that bombs you without you even knowing how you died afterwards, Since this is Argonath, all I'll ask for is play along and stop with unrealistic demands and unrealistic roleplay.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Luke on May 17, 2016, 09:27:28 pm
Bottom line is this needs to be sorted with both sides, both sides are in the wrong, thats it.

p.s been saving this for rainy day;
(http://i.imgur.com/izklIwP.jpg)
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 17, 2016, 09:29:50 pm
They can roleplay all they want their rebel group. If they do it properly however. If they decide to make a roadblock, and get approached by Police and FBI, they should play along. They can't expect us to execute their unrealistic demands. I'm there to roleplay as an FBI Agent, they're there to roleplay as rebels. Watch how it works on youtube and come back and play along. You're acting as if it's normal for rebels to block roads in real life and let it be tolerated by cops, or shoot on sight. Well then my friend, you get done properly by an unmanned predator drone that bombs you without you even knowing how you died afterwards, Since this is Argonath, all I'll ask for is play along and stop with unrealistic demands and unrealistic roleplay.
And so the fighting will continue until independence...

Or at the very least, a ceasefire in which law enforcement stop entering Flint Country.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Sweeper on May 17, 2016, 09:29:58 pm
End this (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116578.0), end the deathmatch.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: .Matthew. on May 17, 2016, 09:31:07 pm
And so the fighting will continue until independence...
See what I'm talking about managers, admins, developers and HQ :)?
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 09:32:44 pm
What you have said gets us no closer, but I guess FLA and law enforcements leaders can try to broker something in-game.
You mean independence isn't what you want?  :neutral2:
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: taseen11 on May 17, 2016, 09:37:58 pm
Law enforcement are willing to negotiate reasonable requests. Saying 'we no want u to enter flint countRy!' isn't a reasonable demand for law enforcement organisations to accept.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: CharlieKasper on May 17, 2016, 09:38:06 pm
Being a supporter I would much prefer that Flint and Whetstone become an independent country but I am also a realist so I reckon the President may not allow it.

So I am taking the example of India. J&K is a state with active conflicts, and thus it is an independent state, it has its own constitution, its very own different Government and even a different flag (the rest of India has the same flag). Its citizens have different interest than that of the rest of India.

So I suggest the same, if it can't be an independent country, make it an independent state. SAPD and SA Govt' won't have jurisdiction in Flint County and Whetstone. It will have its own constitution based on the feedback of its citizens, will have its own police department, its govt will be created from the citizens of Flint and Whetstone (those who want to improve it as a state) and will learn to operate and cooperate with other states of Argonath (San Andreas, Liberty City, Vice City). The President will try to resolve the conflicts and make it an united state of argonath. That way conflict ends.

I am sure the current members of FLA would be willing to give up their arms and run a civilized state if they get such independence.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Camels100s on May 17, 2016, 09:46:54 pm
:lol:

The thing is, FLA is pretty much the most active non-law enforcement group on the server, what we do is what is

I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

(http://i.imgur.com/qLawblx.jpg)


Nice pic btw. Ahahaahahah...
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 17, 2016, 09:53:32 pm
So I suggest the same, if it can't be an independent country, make it an independent state. SAPD and SA Govt' won't have jurisdiction in Flint County and Whetstone. It will have its own constitution based on the feedback of its citizens, its govt will be created from the citizens of Flint and Whetstone (those who want to improve it as a state) and will learn to operate and cooperate with other states of Argonath (San Andreas, Liberty City, Vice City). The President will try to resolve the conflicts and make it an united state of argonath. That way conflict ends.
If it must remain under Gandalf then I'd support this.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Bruce. on May 17, 2016, 09:55:40 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/qLawblx.jpg)
Professionalism at its best.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 17, 2016, 09:59:11 pm
Like i have said, You already have your independence if we look at the server rules.

Basically, You and players that want can roleplay your country already.
The passerby players however have the choice to accept or deny playing along, and cannot be forced to follow your country's playstyle.
Dito for the ARPD, They cannot be restricted from entering the county upon pursuits or patrols, Their job covers the state in the first place.
You can't shoot them on sight either, since that's deathmatching. Rebel or not. Shouldn't exploit it as an excuse either.
The unofficial solution's already there  :neutral2:
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Fuzzy on May 17, 2016, 10:00:55 pm
Professionalism at its best.
Indeed...what a disgrace.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Sawyer on May 17, 2016, 10:03:24 pm
Professionalism at its best.
I guess that was sarcasm.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Bruce. on May 17, 2016, 10:07:21 pm
I guess that was sarcasm.
You guessed right.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Liviu. on May 17, 2016, 10:15:06 pm

I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

(http://i.imgur.com/qLawblx.jpg)
I understand you now.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Hubbestubbe on May 17, 2016, 10:17:08 pm
So what matthew are saying is that when they come up to our roadblock, we should "Play along" and remove it all, confess that we're criminals, ask for apology and go home? No. What if you "play along" and actually leave the scene, we won't give up just because "im such a good RPer if i let him win". We still have our demands, which is not unrealistic. Our demands is "leave us", i always use to say "We all can sleep in our homes with our wife and kids tonight.", which usually not is the way it ends with, because that is too much of a demand.

The situation now a days is that the police see us with green car and/or mask, they ask us to pullover. If we pull over, we'll probably get tazed and brought for jail for potential terrorist.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Omri on May 17, 2016, 10:25:48 pm
I'm just sharing my input of what I have witnessed, I do support the RP that comes out of this FLA vs ARPD but I do not understand the point of provoking each other and like insulting each other in public chat when someone lost a war and the other part "won" the fight. It's not direct insults but they are on the edge on provoking and encouraging DM.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on May 17, 2016, 10:57:56 pm
Smh.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: McGarrett on May 17, 2016, 11:23:49 pm
Oh right, you were just randomly patrolling the dead back'o'beyond where little to no players go, and despite FLA's topic being the most posted in lately, you didn't know about their existence... :rolleyes:

I fail to find a valid reason with a proper roleplay based motive against myself for you to shoot me down. I have no less authority to patrol the air at Angel Pine than I do in for example Fort Carson and Los Santos.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Vaeldious on May 17, 2016, 11:35:32 pm
I fail to find a valid reason with a proper roleplay based motive against myself for you to shoot me down. I have no less authority to patrol the air at Angel Pine than I do in for example Fort Carson and Los Santos.
Except that Lawdogs arent exactly welcomed in Fort Carson by the Nomads.


More on point though, the whole FLA vs SAPD has become a daily "battle" for both sides. Granted, I support FLA for its unique group accompishments, and it brings more players into the server, the question is at what cost? Sure, it's nice to see 50+ players online, but what does that say about Argonath if half the server is participating in TDM? I say Flint Deserves its independence but cannot be enforced...and this is where we have an immovable object (FLA) and an unstoppable force (SAPD).

Simply, I would suggest structured rules of group wars. While two groups are at a "war" status with eachother, players may not return to the fight after death until the "war" is over, and a "cooldown" period after the conflict ends, say a week or so afterwards. This limits the time an engagement can be sustained by either side into an endless daily shootout, and also gives the players a chance to develop RPs from unique situations like this that otherwise would never be had.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 17, 2016, 11:37:11 pm
I do hope people have seen the change made here;

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116578.msg1833491#msg1833491

The Court hereby revokes the conjunction, rendering it null and void effective immediately.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Fuzzy on May 17, 2016, 11:42:52 pm
More on point though, the whole FLA vs SAPD has become a daily "battle" for both sides. Granted, I support FLA for its unique group accompishments, and it brings more players into the server, the question is at what cost? Sure, it's nice to see 50+ players online, but what does that say about Argonath if half the server is participating in TDM?
Indeed, it's starting to be boring when 90% of law enforcement sit at Flint Toll or Angel Pine and FLA members (around 5-10?) that are online just to fight eachother, leaving like the rest of 50 players being alone/bored as hell in the other cities because they have almost nobody to interact with.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Drix on May 17, 2016, 11:47:19 pm
Even tho we do not use public affairs as S.A.P.D to explain our side from the law enfrocement and we're always guilty for our way we react to this group, i'd like to say a few words in this topic. First of it i'm glad that Eyemas did this topic but at the same time i'm disappointed as the leaders of F.L.A failed to make one of it or at-least try to approach diplomatically in-game in order to maintain this issue and take responsibility over their actions. Maybe this is the reason why they are counted as a terrorist group, because they have nothing to loose, they use maximum ammunation and people (/cb COME ANGEL LETS KILL COPPAS)) to finish one  goal - Kill as much law enforcement as possible and turn this server into a TDM. Thing is i agree with Eyemas, as much as Mikal can brag ppl are joining Argonath just for FLA (or other mafia members come to angel pine just for fla) some people are leaving this server just because of FLA, some are sick of this server because of FLA, why? Because we cannot enjoy what we used to do(personally speaking)... instead of me worrying on leading and developing my department, creating random scenarios in-game for my Officers.. I need to worry about gathering units into responding a group of terrorist who have "executed" one of my officers and are barricaded inside an interior with C4. I gotta worry about setting tasks forces, patrols, border checks in order to prevent SAPD Officers being killed just because they enter that area. I'm getting sick of this, i didn't sign up for this.. i didn't sign up to handle people who have no idea on leadership or maintaining reputation of their own group.
What this means for FLA:
We will now need to kill any law enforcement that comes near us ASAP to prevent them calling backup, since we will not be removing our masks under any circumstances, so, all this new law has done is set the stage for alot of shootouts, gg. :rolleyes:

And I don't know why you think we'd close down, I personally have nothing to lose and will respond to any court case against me with "I do not live in your jurisdiction", and if I do get cash forcefully removed from my account due to a court case, well, good luck, I only have 4k, all of my stuff is invested in FLA and don't plan on earning anything anytime soon, damn, I'm pretty untouchable now that I think about it! But sure I'll happily serve "100 years" in jail if it makes you guys happy. :lol:

In the end though, I don't see how we can be considered a terrorist organisation, since the only people causing shootouts are law enforcement by approaching us in the first place, this is like some American Govt BS right here, why can't we just have peace and freedom?
Oh great idea! Lead an army against my own group!
The only solution for this is for you to resign from FLA Mikal, a true leader does not speak like this. I look at Hubbe and i look at you i see a big difference. A leader who has nothing to earn, a leader who does not plan, a leader who has nothing to loose is not a leader... all you are doing is gathering up people, getting them killed, and in the end what are you winning? Nothing. A leader is best when people barely know he exists, he's patient and focuses more in a certain goal and vision instead of focusing into a war. Why can't you have peace and freedom? Because you execute Officers adverse it on the news, you approach law with R.P.G.S on public areas, you attack their roadblocks with your men, you take zero responsibility for your actions, always winning in your mind, always fooling people.



What caused all chaos and rivalry between FLA and law enforcement was what happened at LS Bank, at first it was a protest lead by farmers against taxes and police driving on the crops in Flint County, we were peacefully protesting, using /riot whilst stood on our tractors at LS Bank when SWAT decided to come, surrounded us with cars, a tank, and police snipers then stood infront of us with batons, we weren't going to leave and neither were SWAT, so we took the first action and attacked, law enforcement all died, and then days later that incident happened in Flint County where some certain things were abused, and ever since then it's been a constant downhill road, don't see it getting any better myself.

But we won't kneel to law enforcement, we will deal with them as a threat as we always have, just this time they can suspect and arrest us for much more minor things and so we need to ensure those who see such things don't walk away and get help, else we'll just have a constant police army on our asses.
And like any 'criminals', if we are caught committing a crime, we will do everything in our power to get away with it, including killing.
Consequences of having such a group I guess.


This kind of mentality over police work gets your group into trouble, shows us how much you know about leadership and especially how law enforcement works and as long as you will be leading this group FLA will never have peace because of this fucked up mentality. Almost in every riot SWAT responds, with batons and WATER tank.. it was not a god damn rhino, BUT a water rank! In-real life they also do that, plus they got big gas guns to make people disperse in-case something goes on. They weren't there to kill you with a water tank and batons...SWAT wasn't going to leave until the protesters have made their point and disperse, it will remain there making sure the protest is going peacefully and there are no hostility between protesters and law it's procedures it's common sense something that you keep failing to understand! But  what do you do ? You decide to make a move first just because they are there, and signal your guy to shoot an R.P.G in a public place with civilians around killing law enforcement and hunting them down one by one shooting Rockets!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHgrkcZ408&feature=youtu.be - Talking about this situation
(http://i.imgur.com/snKggDG.png?1)

How do you think law will react to that slaughter? How do you not think we will not pay caution and act accordingly when we hear the same people, road-blocking shouting FLA, shouting fuck ARPD and showing the same signs as the situation above? I'm talking about the situation where you got so butt-hurt and reported S.W.A.T for using tazers upon you. That was the reason why they used tazer, they did not kill you! They tazed the people to bring them for investigation, they didn't taze you and kill you they used non-lethal force on you! Something that happens in riots, something you need to deal with it instead of creating topics and taking it personally THEN forcing your group to start a DM war against police!


And what do you do? I approached you on skype and attempted to justify SWAT actions and law ones ATTEMPTED to make you realize that these actions will only heat things up, instead of you admitting that what have you done was out of the line and that it might lead your group into being terrorists, you supported those actions with stupid excuses.. unlike Hubbe which he even admitted it was out of line but you still continued declaring war against ARPD, attacking us when we enter angel pine.. killing us, then when law comes to finish the job you start blaming us for "comming at us first".
You even said i wasn't professional and a true leader and that ARPD is full of butt-buddies/baised which to me was offensive as i'm trying real hard into completing my tasks professionally.

You have to admit that what you have started here with F.L.A is pretty damn personal, you have avoided all of your goals, you do not know what you want, you simply want to kill cops, you lead your group roleplay into a constant deathmatch roleplay, you invite other clans/mafia groups/gangs as "Supporters" to join you in your wars over /cb without no sign of roleplay, but what you don't get is.. as long as you continue this.. the other side will continue it to. We protect our constitution, policy, we do not surrender our authority to you, BUT we do tolerate and negotiate.. because un-like you i enjoy roleplaying a Police Officer instead of a Ant-Terrorist Unit 24/7.
So instead of making useless replys to this topic everyone, sit down.. and roleplay it. Come to the leaders, negotiate, have a talk, instead of pushing this back and forth and if you can't do that.. resign. As you have shown no true skills of leadership, i don't know your past history on Argonath when it comes into groups, i do not know how quickly you got script support over this but i know you got it because you promised HQ that you will show them decent roleplay, and honestly.. you're just fucking that up, you need to stop.
:lol:

The thing is, FLA is pretty much the most active non-law enforcement group on the server, what we do is what is keeping players coming on, a few have actually told me they only came back for FLA, I'm not gloating, I'm seeing it how it is, despite RS5.2 the server population has once again dropped and now you think you can come over here suggesting to close one of the things keeping it going, as I've said, if police didn't come to us or block what we call our borders, there would be no shootout, how many times do I have to say that? It's not like we actively group up and then going into Los Santos looking for cops to kill, and I feel like that's what you're making it out we do...

I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

(http://i.imgur.com/qLawblx.jpg)


What you do is keeping the players come? Yes, we get shootouts they die and then what? Do they remain there and roleplay? No they simply leave wait till another shoot-out comes, so they get to kill some cops. Nothing permanently productive, simply temporary. We work by our constitution and as long as Gandalf or court will not edit it and claim you guys are independent we will keep coming and disrupting those actions. Why do you have to continue it instead of creating your group other roleplay scenarios? Go over the woods, role-play rebels moving arms from state to state not on highways on convoys but out of sight! There are plenty of others things you can roleplay to get players interaction in county areas instead of roadblocks and shootouts!
Quote
I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

(http://i.imgur.com/qLawblx.jpg)
There you go again twisting the situation, making yourself look like a victim in the eyes of others. What you did is : You shoot at heavy air, and barricaded yourself inside, then the units attempted to breach the area you were inside, then you got out and got killed/tazed, some officers thought it would be a joke to piss on you because of the pictures you have posted about them lately (some of them are victims :P) but they did it in a way of banter even at the same time i pm'd you to ignore it as it wasn't professional. People were warned that day.

So that's all..
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Khm on May 17, 2016, 11:48:13 pm
I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

(http://i.imgur.com/qLawblx.jpg)
I really am too close to not come back to Argonath after finishing with my degree after seeing this picture, I thought such stuff stopped. No matter how much you complain how abusive and corrupt they are, they will never be treated similar. We have to be honest, the indifference of staff team doing between criminals and cops is what really adds more fuel to the fire. Cops tend to flee from any wrong deeds they commit. If we want to talk, let's at least be honest with ourselves. As I've experienced this myself playing the 3 roles in Argonath (the top criminal, the citizen and the top cop), cops tend to intentionally provoke anyone who's indifferent from their views, their role-play style or even personal grudges. I've witnessed a lot of cases during all these years whether it's on TS, on Skype, on the main fucking chat or /cb. They intentionally find ways to provoke the other side to create chaos then whine to their friends in the staff team, hoping to disband that group of people or kick them out of the server permanently. Stop thinking that your top SAPD and FBI guys are so perfect that they won't do any mistake, we are fucking humans and there is no one who can't do a mistake. So staff team, wake the fuck up about this one, it's time to do so.
Criminals on the other side have this thing that they refuse to lose a role-play scenario, this might has changed recently but I didn't witness it so I don't know much about it. But this must-win mentality is also what led to this and what will lead to worse.
To be honest, we have come to an end that we won't find a solution about this FLA vs Cops (not ARPD but all COPS), it has already got out of hand specially with both of them refusing to lose, you guys will have to close one of the groups (which we all know you won't do it on Cops because "it's historic and started with Argonath from the beginning we can't destroy cops man wtf").
The perfect solution to this is to give FLA what they want and leave them role-play but there must be an agreement between the two countries that anyone can go freely between both lands with a passport/visa/ticket w/e you want and stop this nonsense fight of toddlers.
P.s. I might get banned just writing that as it's the naked truth. :lol:
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Vaeldious on May 17, 2016, 11:49:32 pm
...leaving like the rest of 50 players being alone/bored as hell in the other cities because they have almost nobody to interact with.

It has been good for the production of meth though. I've (heard that other people) made easily 2kg with 20+ law enforcement officers online and in broad-daylight public places.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 17, 2016, 11:52:59 pm
Law enforcement are willing to negotiate reasonable requests. Saying 'we no want u to enter flint countRy!' isn't a reasonable demand for law enforcement organisations to accept.
I think saying that is very reasonable considering all the death from both sides.

I fail to find a valid reason with a proper roleplay based motive against myself for you to shoot me down. I have no less authority to patrol the air at Angel Pine than I do in for example Fort Carson and Los Santos.
Angel Pine is a rebel controlled area, FLA have been there for months now and the amount of fighting that has taken place, been discussed, argued about, pictures uploaded of, etc, should be enough to tell you that there is a risk there... Don't tell me you just randomly decided to fly round there without knowing about FLA.

I do hope people have seen the change made here;

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116578.msg1833491#msg1833491
Funny thing is, that law came in when FLA's activity started to decrease, seeing that is what created alot of this chaos.

Indeed, it's starting to be boring when 90% of law enforcement sit at Flint Toll or Angel Pine and FLA members (around 5-10?) that are online just to fight eachother, leaving like the rest of 50 players being alone/bored as hell in the other cities because they have almost nobody to interact with.
The fighting is getting very repetitive, perhaps a deal for a ceasefire can be made in the coming days? :rolleyes:

I really am too close to not come back to Argonath after finishing with my degree after seeing this picture, I thought such stuff stopped. No matter how much you complain how abusive and corrupt they are, they will never be treated similar. We have to be honest, the indifference of staff team doing between criminals and cops is what really adds more fuel to the fire. Cops tend to flee from any wrong deeds they commit. If we want to talk, let's at least be honest with ourselves. As I've experienced this myself playing the 3 roles in Argonath (the top criminal, the citizen and the top cop), cops tend to intentionally provoke anyone who's indifferent from their views, their role-play style or even personal grudges. I've witnessed a lot of cases during all these years whether it's on TS, on Skype, on the main fucking chat or /cb. They intentionally find ways to provoke the other side to create chaos then whine to their friends in the staff team, hoping to disband that group of people or kick them out of the server permanently. Stop thinking that your top SAPD and FBI guys are so perfect that they won't do any mistake, we are fucking humans and there is no one who can't do a mistake. So staff team, wake the fuck up about this one, it's time to do so.
Criminals on the other side have this thing that they refuse to lose a role-play scenario, this might has changed recently but I didn't witness it so I don't know much about it. But this must-win mentality is also what led to this and what will lead to worse.
To be honest, we have come to an end that we won't find a solution about this FLA vs Cops (not ARPD but all COPS), it has already got out of hand specially with both of them refusing to lose, you guys will have to close one of the groups (which we all know you won't do it on Cops because "it's historic and started with Argonath from the beginning we can't destroy cops man wtf").
The perfect solution to this is to give FLA what they want and leave them role-play but there must be an agreement between the two countries that anyone can go freely between both lands with a passport/visa/ticket w/e you want and stop this nonsense fight of toddlers.
P.s. I might get banned just writing that as it's the naked truth. :lol:
Wow Khm, just... :app:

It has been good for the production of meth though. I've (heard that other people) made easily 2kg with 20+ law enforcement officers online and in broad-daylight public places.
:lol: They really are too busy in Flint Country.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 17, 2016, 11:56:32 pm
Funny thing is, that law came in when FLA's activity started to decrease, seeing that is what created alot of this chaos.


It is indeed and I was just about to comment about it until I saw the fact that it had been retracted. People seemed to think "So if they're illegal that means we can go after them" and so they did.

At the end of the day either side is both the provoker and victim in one way or another, it just seems people can't see that there is no point to keep going into flint county seeking fights.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Marcell on May 18, 2016, 12:10:51 am
Why do you have to continue it instead of creating your group other roleplay scenarios? Go over the woods, role-play rebels moving arms from state to state not on highways on convoys but out of sight! There are plenty of others things you can roleplay to get players interaction in county areas instead of roadblocks and shootouts!
Do you have any common sense at all? you're accusing us of not roleplaying things that are meant to stay hidden, how the f... would you know about them in the first place?

You're just showing your lack of imagination, saying all we do is set up roadblocks and getting into shootouts, easily anyone could say the same thing about SAPD. Reality is different, we patrol our territory, brainwash new recruits, organize weapon convoys, party, pray at our church, etc. Just like you guys patrol, get evidence and set up border checks. There's no need to be a biased asshole right here.

First of all I think most of people are way too salty thinking the shootouts between our factions are like TDM runs where one side is meant to win. If you can't mentally handle a simple situation in a multiplayer game where two people shoot each other without crying about it, you should definately switch your profession. People like Leonardo or Julio enjoyed our little skirmishes, and as you can see they're not crying about it, because they know it's just a fucking game.
Demanding we close down shows pure arrogance and have to win mentality, what gives you the right to request other group to close down in the first place? I loved how people are pulling roleplay arguments right here, 'oh but we can just raid you and then you should close down!' sure, why shouldn't some of you be fined few millions for crashing a gunship into a small town then? c'mon... it's just a game no matter how seriously you take it.

Personally though, I do think the skirmishes have been getting out of hand a bit lately, but the server is half dead anyway so I don't see nothing wrong with it. If SAPD wants peace without acting like dicks about it however, I suppose an agreement could be simply arranged - a cease fire of some sorts, however due to RP nature of the military attacks (such as Hydras blowing up 15+ houses) the military/police presence would be heavy regulated - treat it as border control of some sorts, if you just take an army and approach borders of another country it's going to be treated as provocation. I'm fine with SAPD doing their checkpoints at the paytolls, as long as they don't set them up outside of paytolls / into Flint Country (Flint bridge is fine). Of course such an agreement won't ever happen, cause you guys will come up with something like 'lol no ure all terrorists sry'
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Drix on May 18, 2016, 12:14:55 am
Who demanded it's closure?
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 18, 2016, 12:15:37 am
Those videos of cops carpet bombing Angel Pine with a Hydra was interesting to watch to say the least.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Drix on May 18, 2016, 12:19:44 am
Those videos of cops carpet bombing Angel Pine with a Hydra was interesting to watch to say the least.
You should've seen those videos where in that exact situation cops got killed on-entrance because " your entering a terrorist state, what you expect cup of tea?". Don't speak and cause more hate in this topic without knowing the whole side of the story, help your Manager Mr.Leader .. don't push this.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 18, 2016, 12:22:34 am
Taking offense to a post once again, go on. It seems any time I don't take the cops side with a message in this community it offends those that are primarily "pro-cop" and it upsets people. I guess that's because it was the norm for those in HQ positions for years.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 12:33:10 am
Those videos of cops carpet bombing Angel Pine with a Hydra was interesting to watch to say the least.

Remove this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCaraqKHW2E&feature=youtu.be

And Hydra can be removed also since the above is considered valid RP so I don't understand by use of hydra after the slaughter of so many cops doesn't warrant it for people with c4/grenades/rpg etc.

I do believe explosive ordinance should be removed for the good of the server and even if the Hydra stays, it cannot be used to shoot under any circumstance no matter what but only to track people in the sea.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Marcell on May 18, 2016, 12:36:43 am
You should've seen those videos where in that exact situation cops got killed on-entrance because " your entering a terrorist state, what you expect cup of tea?". Don't speak and cause more hate in this topic without knowing the whole side of the story, help your Manager Mr.Leader .. don't push this.
Because entering an independent-declared city as lonely uniformed cop, approaching armed masked people who you brand as 'terrorists' yourself and taking pictures of them while next to them while laughing, shouldn't get you shot. Quality logic my friend  :app:
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 18, 2016, 12:38:25 am
Remove this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCaraqKHW2E&feature=youtu.be

And Hydra can be removed also since the above is considered valid RP so I don't understand by use of hydra after the slaughter of so many cops doesn't warrant it for people with c4/grenades/rpg etc.

I do believe removal explosive ordinance should be removed for the good of the server and even if the Hydra stays, it cannot be used to shoot under any circumstance no matter what but only to track people in the sea.

So you simply knew that a person in a car you just drove up to is "John Corleone" without even seeing an ID? You tell a person to remain in the vehicle but do nothing to stop a person leaving the car and walking away.
You then get aimed at with an RPG, instead of taking evasive action someone is too busy typing "inb4 rpgs us" in the group chat.

And then you blame people for being hostile when you surround them and they have a notoriety and you do nothing to secure the area? Honestly speaking you brought that upon yourselves for not ensuring everyone remained in the vehicle as you arrived.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Hubbestubbe on May 18, 2016, 12:41:22 am
It wouldn't be right to blame this all on FLA or all on SAPD. The last days the police have been more active in Flint Country, which we ofcourse have to respond to. Sure, we could interact more, but usually it ends up with "YOU TERRORIST SCUM"-kind of attitude and laughing at all our demands (I laugh at our demands too sometimes, but that's OOC). There is no way to negotiate any more, today I tried to talk to a cop at the LS tunnel, I simply asked him what was going on, in response he said "On your mark" at the radio and went behind his car, ready for a shootout. We left the scene.

As the police use better weapons, we do too. And vice versa, it's a vicious circle.

When under my command in the future, I will think more about interacting, sometimes it can be worth the risk to get tased. I hope the police does it too.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: taseen11 on May 18, 2016, 12:43:29 am
instead of taking evasive action
I guess it's kinda hard to take evasive action when someone steps out with an M4 walks away then quickly scrolls to an RPG and takes somewhat of an aim with no RP  interaction whatsoever,  all within a couple of seconds.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 12:44:35 am
So you simply knew that a person in a car you just drove up to is "John Corleone" without even seeing an ID? You tell a person to remain in the vehicle but do nothing to stop a person leaving the car and walking away.
You then get aimed at with an RPG, instead of taking evasive action someone is too busy typing "inb4 rpgs us" in the group chat.

And then you blame people for being hostile when you surround them and they have a notoriety and you do nothing to secure the area? Honestly speaking you brought that upon yourselves for not ensuring everyone remained in the vehicle as you arrived.

Can't be serious. Try doing a traffic stop on them to check their ID and let me know what happens. Though that is another discussion.
 
I won't continue this because I think there is a huge lack of knowledge on what you're claiming we could've done. Nevertheless, point was, what FLA did warranted the use of Hydra and that was after they slaughtered cops, shot choppers down not, "oh FLA, lets bomb".
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Drix on May 18, 2016, 12:46:48 am
It wouldn't be right to blame this all on FLA or all on SAPD. The last days the police have been more active in Flint Country, which we ofcourse have to respond to. Sure, we could interact more, but usually it ends up with "YOU TERRORIST SCUM"-kind of attitude and laughing at all our demands (I laugh at our demands too sometimes, but that's OOC). There is no way to negotiate any more, today I tried to talk to a cop at the LS tunnel, I simply asked him what was going on, in response he said "On your mark" at the radio and went behind his car, ready for a shootout. We left the scene.

As the police use better weapons, we do too. And vice versa, it's a vicious circle.

When under my command in the future, I will think more about interacting, sometimes it can be worth the risk to get tased. I hope the police does it too.

Like wise my friend, i'll alert Command also.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 18, 2016, 12:47:51 am
Can't be serious. Try doing a traffic stop on them to check their ID and let me know what happens. Though that is another discussion.
 
I won't continue this because I think there is a huge lack of knowledge on what you're claiming we could've done. Nevertheless, point was, what FLA did warranted the use of Hydra and that was after they slaughtered cops, shot choppers down not, "oh FLA, lets bomb".

The video you just provided was of Corleone members, the person that shot the RPG is not even a part of FLA so I fail to see why you used this to try blame FLA for hostile actions.
What you were doing wasn't just a traffic stop now was it? Why would you call an unidentified person by name if it was.

Say I have a lack of knowledge all you like, but until you see things from either perspective you should take into consideration that as a law enforcement agency member you won't always win in a battle or situation.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 12:51:05 am
The video you just provided was of Corleone members, the person that shot the RPG is not even a part of FLA so I fail to see why you used this to try blame FLA for hostile actions.
What you were doing wasn't just a traffic stop now was it? Why would you call an unidentified person by name if it was.

Say I have a lack of knowledge all you like, but until you see things from either perspective you should take into consideration that as a law enforcement agency member you won't always win in a battle or situation.

Corleones are part of the FLA. It was just to show the type of actions people under the FLA flag do. Also he was in the front seat, we convicted the man, we know every detail about him from A-Z. So not unidentified. He stood trial in court after a long investigation on him and we knew exactly who he was.

Also we've also tried a traffic stop, all they do is /engine and vanish.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Khm on May 18, 2016, 12:55:17 am
So you simply knew that a person in a car you just drove up to is "John Corleone" without even seeing an ID? You tell a person to remain in the vehicle but do nothing to stop a person leaving the car and walking away.
You then get aimed at with an RPG, instead of taking evasive action someone is too busy typing "inb4 rpgs us" in the group chat.

And then you blame people for being hostile when you surround them and they have a notoriety and you do nothing to secure the area? Honestly speaking you brought that upon yourselves for not ensuring everyone remained in the vehicle as you arrived.
Finally you woke up..
Arslan, please don't turn this discussion into a one situation that happened before we are sick and tired of these stuff, we are talking about all of it, not certain situations. This isn't a courtroom to provide evidences of someone's wrong deeds.
A thing I want to ask; why police are the ones who are dealing with FLA and colliding with them physically on the war zone? Why it's not the army doing that? Why it's the FBI and SWAT who're representing Argonath state? Is it because they are old players, is it because they are your friends and that makes them do what they like? This powerhunger must stop, seriously. They have already destroyed groups who WANTED to have their own role-play style with biased evidences to their beloved "friends". Last group was cia, don't make the FLA the next one, at least for the damn sake of what's left in this SA:MP division.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 18, 2016, 12:56:35 am
Please, be my guest and tell me how that action of tevins differs from when FLA was surrounded by cops and tased without a word said by the cops even after Mikal tried to speak with one of the officers and was plainly ignored? If you want to say tevins actions are wrong then in the same light all of the officers that tased FLA members at their HQ are in the wrong too.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Marcell on May 18, 2016, 12:57:09 am
Can't be serious. Try doing a traffic stop on them to check their ID and let me know what happens. Though that is another discussion.
Arguments aside, I'm just trying to understand your logic here.
If FBI pulls over a criminal who's well aware of his crimes, in middle of day for no specified reason, he becomes 100% aware of what's going on since you boys are subtle as a bucket of bricks, do you expect him to simply give up everytime, even when he has a fair chance of running?

BTW: I burst out laughing saying the Hydra was justified, I have 2 recordings of that assault and what was simply going on, was a single civilian in Angel Pine that was wanted for murder being aided by us.... fact being, we aren't even using RPGs against you guys, which even if we did, are simply useless against a Hydra jet. We do use a C4 there and there, but today showed how useless it is - exploding 2 times right at your guys' feet, it only dropped their 2k armors fully, while they remained at nearly full HP.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 18, 2016, 12:59:32 am
Even tho we do not use public affairs as S.A.P.D to explain our side from the law enfrocement and we're always guilty for our way we react to this group, i'd like to say a few words in this topic. First of it i'm glad that Eyemas did this topic but at the same time i'm disappointed as the leaders of F.L.A failed to make one of it or at-least try to approach diplomatically in-game in order to maintain this issue and take responsibility over their actions. Maybe this is the reason why they are counted as a terrorist group, because they have nothing to loose, they use maximum ammunation and people (/cb COME ANGEL LETS KILL COPPAS)) to finish one  goal - Kill as much law enforcement as possible and turn this server into a TDM. Thing is i agree with Eyemas, as much as Mikal can brag ppl are joining Argonath just for FLA (or other mafia members come to angel pine just for fla) some people are leaving this server just because of FLA, some are sick of this server because of FLA, why? Because we cannot enjoy what we used to do(personally speaking)... instead of me worrying on leading and developing my department, creating random scenarios in-game for my Officers.. I need to worry about gathering units into responding a group of terrorist who have "executed" one of my officers and are barricaded inside an interior with C4. I gotta worry about setting tasks forces, patrols, border checks in order to prevent SAPD Officers being killed just because they enter that area. I'm getting sick of this, i didn't sign up for this.. i didn't sign up to handle people who have no idea on leadership or maintaining reputation of their own group.
First of, why should we have to call people to Angel Pine to 'kill coppahs', why don't you just stay away? According to you we are terrorists, why would you go to a terrorist controlled town and then moan about being shot at? The thing is that you are so desperate to enforce your laws on us that it's usually you guys who cause the shootouts, you come telling us to remove our masks, you come telling us to put pay our weapons, etc, as I have said, don't come to us and there will not be a shootout, stop saying "they come to Angel Pine" as if you've always been there, Angel Pine was DEAD before FLA moved in, we've spread activity to a quiet part of the map and yet we still cannot seem to escape the police who are always looking for someone to /su.

Why can't you enjoy what you used to? Nobody forces you to come to us, you do it by yourselves... Why play the victim like this? We do not come to you, you are free to go and do whatever you want but it seems you'd rather be in Angel Pine or setting up a roadblock for like 5 hours at Flint Bridge just because it's something FLA usually did.

Why do you need to worry about doing anything? Why do you need to worry about FLA members barricaded inside an interior rigged with C4? You don't, you could leave and chase normal criminal in Los Santos like normal cops, but once again, you'd rather stay in Angel Pine.

You say you're getting sick of doing things YOU CHOOSE TO DO, nobody forces any cops to enforce Argonath laws on FLA members, you do it by yourselves.

What do you mean I have no idea on leadership or maintaining the reputation of my own group? FLA started in November last year and has just grown and grown and grown, we (before this chaos) created a unique group/RP style which SA:MP Argonath hadn't seen before, something other than the constant repetitive mafia (no offence to mafiosos) and it has kept growing ever since, we have dedicated members who respect what FLA is and what it is trying to do, sure alot of our members might have some sort of grudge against law enforcement and perhaps that's why they join, but I think the fact is, you can't handle something being more powerful than law enforcement (depending on the time/day) and that is why there's constant moaning about FLA DMing, abusing RPG's, abusing /barriers, abusing C4, abusing interiors, etc.

Funny story related to the above, and I've underlined that just for those who don't want to read this whole thing and don't understand what kind of bitterness goes on round here, I was actually told by a HQ member to stop inviting people to FLA just so they could use RPG's without notoriety (a script I had requested for FLA), the reason it's funny is that we don't and never have had any script like that, it's just that so many cops were complaining to spite FLA when we didn't even have such a script to abuse.

The only solution for this is for you to resign from FLA Mikal, a true leader does not speak like this. I look at Hubbe and i look at you i see a big difference. A leader who has nothing to earn, a leader who does not plan, a leader who has nothing to loose is not a leader... all you are doing is gathering up people, getting them killed, and in the end what are you winning? Nothing. A leader is best when people barely know he exists, he's patient and focuses more in a certain goal and vision instead of focusing into a war. Why can't you have peace and freedom? Because you execute Officers adverse it on the news, you approach law with R.P.G.S on public areas, you attack their roadblocks with your men, you take zero responsibility for your actions, always winning in your mind, always fooling people.
Sure, I'll just resign from the group I co-created and have raised from nothing to something which is pretty much as powerful as law enforcement, just without the free weapons and heavy air... I do have nothing to lose and I'm actually proud of that, I've put myself in a position where the courts can't touch me, and why wouldn't I if I truly believe the Argonath courts have to jurisdiction in Flint Country, wouldn't you say that's the planning that you say I don't do? Trust me when I say this, we do plan alot, which is why we've done so much obliterating lately, and every loss we take is just in my eyes, another exposure of our enemies weaknesses.

You say that all I'm doing is gathering people and getting them killed but, what the fuck is this?:
[PICTURE HEAVY]
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This is your co-workers who gathered together in Flint Country to provoke us, and ended up getting obliterated, this is your people doing exactly what you accuse me of doing, we don't gather people to kill cops, we gather people to protect our home from an oppressive government, the forces of which are lead by you, Drix, as I've said many times don't enter Flint Country to provoke us and we won't need to gather and army to fight you.

I don't think you are a very good leader yourself, so seriously, do not try to lecture me on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHgrkcZ408
Another situation where you guys approached us and died... Thank you for that.
Honestly, in that situation, I thought you guys needed to be taught a lesson, for days we had been creating roadblocks and every one ended up with us being killed by SWAT, in that situation we had an opportunity and we took it, we had spent about 30 minutes driving around with tractors protesting before that started, before you came, so nobody can claim we went there just to fight with SWAT, once again, since you came to us, sure it could have gone down a melee fight road instead, but that would have just ended up with you guys /suspecting everyone and then that would have just lead to a shootout.

What you do is keeping the players come? Yes, we get shootouts they die and then what? Do they remain there and roleplay? No they simply leave wait till another shoot-out comes, so they get to kill some cops. Nothing permanently productive, simply temporary. We work by our constitution and as long as Gandalf or court will not edit it and claim you guys are independent we will keep coming and disrupting those actions. Why do you have to continue it instead of creating your group other roleplay scenarios? Go over the woods, role-play rebels moving arms from state to state not on highways on convoys but out of sight! There are plenty of others things you can roleplay to get players interaction in county areas instead of roadblocks and shootouts!
Woah, stop the propaganda, this topic is out of RP, in your eyes we always die right? Wrong, just goes to show how ontop of the world you think law enforcement are, which is why FLA are teaching you a real lesson in equality, we've created a group that law enforcement cannot always defeat, and you do not like it.

We'll get back to our roleplay when you guys stop coming into Flint Country looking for a shootout.

There you go again twisting the situation, making yourself look like a victim in the eyes of others. What you did is : You shoot at heavy air, and barricaded yourself inside, then the units attempted to breach the area you were inside, then you got out and got killed/tazed, some officers thought it would be a joke to piss on you because of the pictures you have posted about them lately (some of them are victims :P) but they did it in a way of banter even at the same time i pm'd you to ignore it as it wasn't professional. People were warned that day.

So that's all..
Oh yes, the heavy air that was in Angel Pine with you when you guys came looking for another shootout, the heavy air which had, just a day before, flown around Angel Pine shooting rockets anywhere and everywhere, from what I heard, hitting plenty of people.

I had shot at it with a Deagle (why wouldn't I with what you guys were doing?), I doubt I even hit it as Deagle doesn't have that much range, I was semi-AFK at the time, no cops had approached me after I had fired, I went in FLA HQ and went AFK for about 30 minutes, uploading pictures to FLA topic (you can go see them if you want, was alot), I come back and see a /ad about 'FLA leader hiding from law enforcement in FLA HQ', I come outside and see a bunch of cops aiming at me, I legged it, got tased, suspected for shooting whilst in the forced /ill animation and then insta-cuffed with no chance to escape, if taser isn't OP, I really don't know what is, wouldn't be the first time shit like that has happened to be either.

Did I forget to mention that Hunter you brought to the roadblock we did at Flint Bridge which shot rockets at us? Yes, after we had shot at it, but it was clear how that situation would have turned out, SAPD would shoot us, we'd shoot back, and then the Hunter would have had reason to rocket fire us all to death leading to lots of SAPD saying "rekt" on /p, we've all seen that before...

We were discussing a peace deal in FLA HQ earlier, don't even know why we'd bother now seeing how bitchy you're being, might aswell keep up the fight, since we "always die" you guys got nothing to worry about right?
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: taseen11 on May 18, 2016, 01:00:45 am
Please, be my guest and tell me how that action of tevins differs from when FLA was surrounded by cops and tased without a word said by the cops even after Mikal tried to speak with one of the officers and was plainly ignored? If you want to say tevins actions are wrong then in the same light all of the officers that tased FLA members at their HQ are in the wrong too.
The fact that they were warned several times on the way to the barn and that there was interaction within the situation beforehand?
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 01:01:08 am
Arguments aside, I'm just trying to understand your logic here.
If FBI pulls over a criminal who's well aware of his crimes, in middle of day for no specified reason, he becomes 100% aware of what's going on since you boys are subtle as a bucket of bricks, do you expect him to simply give up everytime, even when he has a fair chance of running?
And I understand that. I didn't say you should step out of the car and lay on the ground as if it was a fairly tale. I was merely making the point as Devin so easily said you could've done this or that to stop them when as you've showed, even stopping criminals for a traffic stop is close to impossible successful.

Post
I'm not but I can see your very angry and letting it all out so I'll let you continue.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 01:05:19 am
Please, be my guest and tell me how that action of tevins differs from when FLA was surrounded by cops and tased without a word said by the cops even after Mikal tried to speak with one of the officers and was plainly ignored? If you want to say tevins actions are wrong then in the same light all of the officers that tased FLA members at their HQ are in the wrong too.

I do accept there are errors on both sides. What is needed is stronger management of groups from both sides. Any flaws, the people responsible should be pulled out after and explained what to change after by their leaders.

Though I'm not sure which situation you're referring to.

I am actually in favor of group leaders talking to each other in trying to create a good RP scene together if there are mass numbers on both sides if there is like a confrontation of FLA V Cops. Like explain to each other how we gonna play it out and reach common grounds on the end. Of course I am talking about like BIG RPs where there are big numbers involved which end up in DM.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Khm on May 18, 2016, 01:09:22 am
I'm not but I can see your very angry and letting it all out so I'll let you continue.
You are and you did. If you took that as I am angry then you lack the skills of having a hard argumentative discussion which is actually needed in here. :lol: I am just taking the chance of this being dropped out into the public face and the naked truth being shown to everyone to ensure keeping FLA's newly role-play style within the server. Like I said earlier, I've played with the 3 role-play faces; the top criminals, the innocent citizen and the top cop. I know all the old tricks and tools on how each side work which is rather disgusting to.., nvm you won't understand anyways.
And it's you're*
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 01:11:21 am
You are and you did. If you took that as I am angry then you lack the skills of having a hard argumentative discussion which is actually needed in here. :lol: I am just taking the chance of this being dropped out into the public face and the naked truth being shown to everyone to ensure keeping FLA's newly role-play style within the server. Like I said earlier, I've played with the 3 role-play faces; the top criminals, the innocent citizen and the top cop. I know all the old tricks and tools on how each side work which is rather disgusting to.., nvm you won't understand anyways.
Point of topic is to reach common ground and how we can improve interaction not to close FLA and nor do my posts suggest that so I actually have no idea what you're talking about.

Again I will quote my previous post, I think this can be a good way to make nice RP scenarios in-game which involve big numbers:
I am actually in favor of group leaders talking to each other in trying to create a good RP scene together if there are mass numbers on both sides if there is like a confrontation of FLA V Cops. Like explain to each other how we gonna play it out and reach common grounds on the end. Of course I am talking about like BIG RPs where there are big numbers involved which end up in DM.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Mikal on May 18, 2016, 01:15:31 am
don't make the FLA the next one, at least for the damn sake of what's left in this SA:MP division.
I had forgotten that CIA were in a similar position, I guess FBI couldn't handle having a similar organisation about?

Regardless, FLA is rooted deep in the server now, it's not going anywhere. :janek:

Also we've also tried a traffic stop, all they do is /engine and vanish.
Get some faster cars or better drivers then? :rolleyes:

Please, be my guest and tell me how that action of tevins differs from when FLA was surrounded by cops and tased without a word said by the cops even after Mikal tried to speak with one of the officers and was plainly ignored? If you want to say tevins actions are wrong then in the same light all of the officers that tased FLA members at their HQ are in the wrong too.
Oh thank you Devin! First time I've seen any HQ member mention that situation in a way which details how sort of wrong it was... :app:

The fact that they were warned several times on the way to the barn and that there was interaction within the situation beforehand?
Warned? You followed us for like 20 minutes around Los Santos, rammed the crap out of Dan/Hubbe's truck at the toll, did the same up until the barn then just parked up staring at us, when I attempted to communicate you guys, you completely ignored me, instead just tasing the fuck out of us and then acting like it was a normal day at the office where everything was handled properly, it's all on video, why try to say anything otherwise?










As I have said, perhaps we can arrange some sort of ceasefire in-game via RP methods, there's no point carrying on the argument on the forums, it's just flooding the forum and making the community look even more unstable.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 18, 2016, 01:18:34 am
I do accept there are errors on both sides. What is needed is stronger management of groups from both sides. Any flaws, the people responsible should be pulled out after and explained what to change after by their leaders.

Indeed people make mistakes, now can we get to the point of the issues between parties? This is a roleplay server and everyone is here to be entertained and have a good time. When issues like this arise no one has a good time.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 01:20:32 am
Indeed people make mistakes, now can we get to the point of view the issues between parties? This is a roleplay server and everyone is here to be entertained and have a good time. When issues like this arise no one has a good time.

I believe the next step in this topic is not to say you did this or that but suggest how things can change. I've posted a suggestion above, I hope others can too or add to my idea.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Marcell on May 18, 2016, 01:22:21 am
Let's just sort this out in roleplay manners, make a pseudo meeting/conference or something.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 01:25:43 am
Let's just sort this out in roleplay manners, make a pseudo meeting/conference or something.

I had an idea of FBI+SAPD/SWAT heads some how contact FLA leaders through whatever RP means we'll see. Have a long debate in-game/meeting with really right security on what bothers them, what changes they want to see and what laws they are against etc and see how many changes can be made and reach common grounds on laws and make proposal to Supreme Court.

Though since FLA is a rebel group I'm not sure achieving peace is a goal on their objective list.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Khm on May 18, 2016, 01:37:08 am
I'd rather see HQ/ government officials (like mayors, supreme judge) taking action in this to cease fire instead of LE heads as it will only be ink on papers, we've proved countless of times that they are not capable in doing such stuff, the plans behind the scenes will always make sure to have personal advantages in the whole situation.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Marcell on May 18, 2016, 01:39:55 am
I'd rather see HQ/ government officials (like mayors, supreme judge) taking action in this to cease fire instead of LE heads as it will only be ink on papers, we've proved countless of times that they are not capable in doing such stuff, the plans behind the scenes will always make sure to have personal advantages in the whole situation.
I think the judge should be present yes, wouldn't make sense if only law enforcement would decide what to do about a territorial government case.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Luke on May 18, 2016, 01:45:48 am
I had forgotten that CIA were in a similar position, I guess FBI couldn't handle having a similar organisation about?
Detective Bureau also buddy, don't forget the days of my regin.  :lol:



We don't need no cease fire or shit, what we need is things roleplayed more and actully effort put in rather then shot on sight or "his wearing a mask instant FLA"  there is loads of ways this whole situation can go down and there are ways very simple ones that can make it that little bit better.

- Don't provoke eachother before/after a gunfight
See this to much, someone dies and the whole of the side where not roleplaying or DMing, not the case you was easily overwhelemed simple as.

- Don't go looking for trouble
If FLA are all at Angel Pine so fucking what leave them be, they aint doing shit, no need to go snooping or sending someone over every 5mins. (Constantly)
Same applies on the other side.

- Don't get personal
This seems to be over and over again also people provoking eachother personally in hate over the mainchat and forums rather then saving it for the ingame argument, use all your rage in RP  :lol:

Just following them three things could make this whole situaiton alot better.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Arslan on May 18, 2016, 01:51:39 am
I think the judge should be present yes, wouldn't make sense if only law enforcement would decide what to do about a territorial government case.

The idea was to reach common ground first then it would go to a judge. Law enforcement doesn't decide what would happen but it could be discussed to reach a common ground since the reason FLA want that territory is because it has an issue with the justice system and law enforcement.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Drix on May 18, 2016, 01:54:01 am
Detective Bureau also buddy, don't forget the days of my regin.  :lol:
That was on you, buddy.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Luke on May 18, 2016, 01:57:31 am
That was on you, buddy.

Sure was but it didn't help with the assistance of other little BUDDIES. Buddy.
(This aint about me so lets not turn it to that)
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Drix on May 18, 2016, 02:01:09 am
Sure was but it didn't help with the assistance of other little BUDDIES. Buddy.
(This aint about me so lets not turn it to that)
You made it about you. Buddy!
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Devin on May 18, 2016, 02:05:53 am
You made it about you. Buddy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuQK6t2Esng
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Luke on May 18, 2016, 02:06:50 am
You made it about you. Buddy!
Yeah let's not Mr Chief. After all I can be tossed to the side and easily replaced, dpmo.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: jovanca on May 18, 2016, 02:07:14 am
having a 'terrorist' group such as this one is something to be grateful for. that's probably the most unique idea ive seen in over 3 years i've spent on the server. if you fail to see potential in having them on the server, that's your fault. make sapd rules against going into flint country. open up an army group to fight fla or just simply have swat recruit more people and do it. remove those who won't keep it in a good manner from both sides.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: DevonSeabolt on May 18, 2016, 03:06:12 am
 I see a lot of truth in these comments. Huge errors from BOTH sides. Just as FLA should make more diploamatic efforts to keep the peace, ARPD should make more effort to not provoke them.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: TiMoN on May 18, 2016, 03:42:10 am
The moment you declared FLA an enemy f the state you set in motion thinsgs that nothing but one of the sides surrendering, and based on the list of victories FLA has I don't see us going anywhere.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Pizza4_Games on May 18, 2016, 06:38:25 am
People need to understand, FLA isn't a terrorist group, It's a Liberation Army. They want freedom, all that kind of stuff. On a daily basis, sometimes I go up to their farm, on the right road, not drive on their fields, and just hang out, they're nice people actually.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 18, 2016, 08:02:36 am

You are seen as a enemy of the state, a terrorist, so I am telling you to surrender
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png)
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Matthew_Green on May 18, 2016, 08:29:23 am
Well to get me started, I see the FLA as an interesting group. A group that brings more activity and interesting spectating to the server. Sure they and ARPD deathmatch a lot, and occasionally civilians become collateral damage. But something has to be done with both sides.


However with that being said, I'm goddamn sick and tired of route closures by both the FLA and ARPD at all of the toll plazas and entry/exit points of Flint County and Whetstone. For at least once or twice a day for the past several days, either one (or both) of the groups decide to blockade off all entries into Flint Co./Whetstone. Around noon US Eastern time yesterday, ARPD and FBI set up a chain of roadblocks around that area. However it sparked a massive debate in chat about if they should do that. What they did is that you can still enter Flint County and Whetstone all fine and dandy. But, they sealed off every single exit except for the one where all of the ARPD and FBI were located at. The Los Santos - Flint County Bridge in Santa Maria Beach. Then sure enough, that bridge turned into a DM-fest about 2 hours later.


Something has to be done. These closures/blockades are REALLY getting out of hand and needs to be stopped.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 18, 2016, 08:59:00 am
Having read through all the extra four pages I can only say the results are as I expected. I wish my attempts at solving the endless conflict were read, though. Instead I'm met with the typical attempts at justifying one's actions.

Well, I tried. Guess there's no saving this lot. :lol:



With that out. I still remain hopeful to push through my solutions on a level where we don't have to resort with tyrannical actions from HQ, such as removing heavy air access: I still believe it can be kept but with the right men to control. Same for forbidding interaction between the groups, you already want this yourself and have set those guidelines for you and your members to follow. Yet you can't escape the devolution of all cases and return to this vicious cycle.

I am still open for any and all suggestions that could contribute to the end of this. But if there's nothing that could be done without taking steps of evil, then I am out of all options.

Neither group needs to win a game that doesn't have to be played, I've tried mentioning that FLA already has what they fight for, but refuse to see it unless officially acknowledged  :neutral2:
Similar for the ARPD, They are only fighting because the FLA is practically against the constitution and all that. But do we really have to keep this ongoing if you can avoid conflict via simple thought?

I try solving this problem via server rules, because just like the people: we can agree roleplay gets us in similar waters as the wars between our major criminal groups: A ceasefire gets broken the same hour it's made.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: TiMoN on May 18, 2016, 04:52:09 pm
For God's sake let everyone have their fun, those who bitch about this war can go hide in Los Santos and do their expected jobs. Civilians are always the victim of wars and nothing can be done about that. Everybody is tired of admins and HQ telling them how to RP or that their RP is "not good enough". If you want to become a serious RP server where you should RP bullets exiting your gun' barrel then you should by all means message LSRP owners and ask to host a second server for them, they'll need it because their server only holds 600/600 and summer is coming.

It's too late for any "up and coming" RP server in SAMP, the client itself will die out in a few years when shitty PCs can run GTA V and everyone and their mother will move out to VMP or whatever client is still alive.

Bottom line is you should stop telling players how to play a dying game and foccs on making it more enjoyable(hint hint no rant topics that reach 150 replies overnight).
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on May 18, 2016, 05:25:40 pm
There is a bad side and good side of shutting down FLA.

Bad side is, it will most likely lower playerbase,less RP,less fun,less interactions,less drama etc...

Good side is, law enforcement can focus more on other criminal activites. And we will no longer live under the fear that the State we are protecting and serving, may lose it's part to some terrorists.

I don't care how much hate I get right after this apply, but I am gonna admit it, I am fully on SAPD's side and a hundred percent against the FLA. I would do anything to stop their operations.

But ofcourse, after getting discipline from my SAPD instructors, I learned not to provocate,bait FLA, and not to rush at them and shoot them. So, I will only use force against the FLA when neccessary.

This post might get alot of hate, but this is my opinion, a opinion from a Cadet who loves the state and who FULLY supports all government's actions, I mean, I am a governmental worker after all.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Julio. on May 18, 2016, 05:32:20 pm
I'd sooner see the FLA vs SAPD "war" settled in an RP manner within the server.

It's unfortunate that FLA's goal is unattainable, because nobody gives a damn about dying within the server. Perhaps we should treat the ongoing "war" with that goal as a single RP situation, and if anybody returns after death, should be punished accordingly? - That would certainly stop the repeated shootouts.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 18, 2016, 05:46:48 pm
In terms of enjoyment: A lot of people are not enjoying argonath anymore and situations like this are what contributed to the weights that were put on us. This counts for many players, staff members, cops, fla members themselves I'd bet as well. Yet I signed up as a staff member to preserve the balance and to keep the game enjoyable for all parties, myself included.

Closing the group isn't going to be an option I want to consider either because I like the principle of it. And I have tried to bring over the point that you can roleplay your "independent state" if you look at it from our server rules their perspective.
You just have to keep in mind that you can't force that roleplay onto players, they can ignore your state's laws if they drive through it for the sake of reaching san fierro, if they grow weed however then it's a little different.

Simply expand the views and look over any possibility you come across, and you'd realize all that fighting is unnecessary ;)

Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: TiMoN on May 18, 2016, 06:39:11 pm
There is a bad side and good side of shutting down FLA.

Bad side is, it will most likely lower playerbase,less RP,less fun,less interactions,less drama etc...

Good side is, law enforcement can focus more on other criminal activites. And we will no longer live under the fear that the State we are protecting and serving, may lose it's part to some terrorists.

I don't care how much hate I get right after this apply, but I am gonna admit it, I am fully on SAPD's side and a hundred percent against the FLA. I would do anything to stop their operations.

But ofcourse, after getting discipline from my SAPD instructors, I learned not to provocate,bait FLA, and not to rush at them and shoot them. So, I will only use force against the FLA when neccessary.

This post might get alot of hate, but this is my opinion, a opinion from a Cadet who loves the state and who FULLY supports all government's actions, I mean, I am a governmental worker after all.
Oh look, a wild "hurr durr i cant beat FLA admin pls shut down FLA so my virtual ego can come back" in its natural habitat.

You should /groupleave SAPD the next time you login because you just admitted to being a useless shit.


Closing the group isn't going to be an option I want to consider either because I like the principle of it. And I have tried to bring over the point that you can roleplay your "independent state" if you look at it from our server rules their perspective.
You just have to keep in mind that you can't force that roleplay onto players, they can ignore your state's laws if they drive through it for the sake of reaching san fierro, if they grow weed however then it's a little different.

Simply expand the views and look over any possibility you come across, and you'd realize all that fighting is unnecessary ;)
Most of us understand the idea of "free-rp" in Argonath where if you to be a tree then by all means dig a hole and jump into it.

But this is the same reason FLA and SAPD are at it, if FLA starts pulling over people for not following their laws, they will just bitch to admins, bitch to /cb, bitch in /p or /l or drive away and get killed/arrested(inb4 more bitching) for evading FLA.

 Same goes for cops, pull one over to ask them what they're doing in FC and Air Force One, US Army and every police unit from the canadian to mexican border will be up your ass in seconds.

If you want to see FLA enforcing their laws with little to no bloodbath, make us the 51st state or a county with its own PD and government, something like that.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 18, 2016, 07:24:07 pm
Most of us understand the idea of "free-rp" in Argonath where if you to be a tree then by all means dig a hole and jump into it.
Yep, that's what Argonath's stance on roleplay is, you can be as serious as you want to be, or you roleplay a concrete block in the sidewalk  ;)

But this is the same reason FLA and SAPD are at it, if FLA starts pulling over people for not following their laws, they will just bitch to admins, bitch to /cb, bitch in /p or /l or drive away and get killed/arrested(inb4 more bitching) for evading FLA.

If you want to see FLA enforcing their laws with little to no bloodbath, make us the 51st state or a county with its own PD and government, something like that.
Doesn't need something like that to avoid bloodbaths, you do need to look at what the cause is. Most of the time people will drive away the instant they know they get a ticket/arrested, or when he/she might(will) get shot for it. Willingly you choose to evade which is why the SAPD can arrest/pursue you for that. On the player side this is a little odd as we consider it to be deathmatching. An odd comparison there, but perhaps we've chosen that route because otherwise people keep killing each other, and they then come to bitch at us for that  :neutral2:

Thinking outside of the box, that's how we could get your flint country to reality.  :lol:
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: Hubbestubbe on May 18, 2016, 07:31:44 pm
Me(FLA army council) and Drix have decided to take a step back in the violence if you check previous pages. So this topic is no longer leading anywhere but to provocation from both sides. I know you all have certain feelings and are upset but let's try this out for a week and see where it goes.
Title: Re: FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk
Post by: eymas on May 18, 2016, 07:40:59 pm
Me(FLA army council) and Drix have decided to take a step back in the violence if you check previous pages. So this topic is no longer leading anywhere but to provocation from both sides. I know you all have certain feelings and are upset but let's try this out for a week and see where it goes.
If I could get a little more insight from this from both sides + documentation then that would be great. ;)
Private, of course.

I'll put a pre-emptive lock on this topic as it served its purpose; For the community to stick their heads together in trying to regain what was out of control.
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