Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: djole on May 25, 2016, 01:31:45 am
-
First of all I’d like to clearly state that the intention behind this post is not to provoke or insult anyone - it is just a critique of the current state of things combined with suggestions on how to possibly make it better.
By many of yours standards I haven’t been in this community very long, but I believe that I’ve been here long enough to spot the many, many things that are completely wrong with the current system be they minuscule or critical issues.
I Groups and the Forum
There seems to be a great number of entirely inactive groups that for some reason still have an IG /group. This makes no sense whatsoever as some of them have banned leaders with no replacement, have had little to no active members for enormous amounts of time or are entierly irrelevant RP-wise. This isn’t a gamebreakinig issue per se but suspending these entities’ /groups until they meet higher standards would certainly be an improvement as they are often wholly dormant or used simply used as a vehicle storage.
These is also the issue of the forum threads of the aforementioned groups residing in the Groups and Families subforum when they should be moved to the Groups and Families Archive until something changes. I also believe that strict criteria should be introduced stating exactly much and often infant and established normal/recognised/official groups must update the topic with new content (i.e. post activity screenshots). This not only gives the less active members of the community more content to go over, and enjoy the creative ways in which the many groups interact internally and with each other but it also sends a clear message that everyone must be more focused on actually RPing in contrast to the current “RP droughtâ€.
The forums are currently riddled with posts alike “good luckâ€, “thanksâ€, “hey hi helloâ€, “hey guys just checking inâ€, “y0 chek out dis sick tune lads <ytvid>†etc. The forum administration could write up a set of rules the users must abide by e.g. no off topic or even any unnecessary OOC content in the Groups and Families board, zero tolerance for provoking or flaming of any sort etc.
II Group Creation & Recognised and Official Status
The rules for group creation are currently very conflicting. I’m talking about the “Clans, Groups, Teams forum rules and guides†thread and the IG group help panel. These need to be consolidated and then further reworked to make the process more strenuous and challenging and also urge the new groups to RP as much as possible and in turn rule break as least as possible.
Certain groups have recognised or official status for seemingly no reason, they add little to none to the entire servers RP experience and some are even inactive altogether. Can’t really go into too much detail here without pointing fingers and as the purpose of this post isn’t to “shit talk†every other group on the server I’ll just leave it at that.
III Punishment Overhaul
The way /report tickets are handled isn’t really an exact science - it should be. Many a time I’ve witnessed different admins give different rulings to the same interpretation of the same event. There needs to be more uniformity in the way report and support tickets are approached and handled i.e. the way an admin responds to and questions a user and comes to a verdict. Some of the staff may not realise this but they come off a bit prickly or even prejudiced against you simply because of the way they word certain questions and statements - someone involved with public work should take into consideration the way users may interpret what they say, after all the text medium isn’t really the best way of communication since a lot gets "lost in translation†to plaintext and one should be aware of it.
Perhaps it might be a good idea (for whoever in the chain of command would make sense to do it), to write up a sort of administrative handbook which would help the administrative team make more homogeneous verdicts in common RP scenarios. This would add more professionalism to the team and would eliminate the blame players sometimes direct toward admins who didn’t rule in their favour.
IV Corruption and Abuse
With every social system there will be corruption and abuse. On servers like this one, sure, an admin might give his good friend a cheeky teleport every now and again. That’s not what I’ll be talking about here though, this appears to be much, much worse. It has recently come to my attention that certain groups have an incorrect status. One of these groups is TheodoreEnterprise. It is a group that is listed as the protector on many of the prime properties throughout the map which hold a great value and even more unused RP potential. This group has six members only one of which is showing activity in-game. It has official status. Another group is TEResearch, RPly a department of the previously mentioned group. This group doesn’t have it’s own topic but is mentioned in the Theodore Enterprise topic. It is mentioned in the topic 7 times, one of which was to establish its existence, two were job listings, three hiring notices and the last was a progress update. It’s your run of the mill corporate group with little to no activity. This group has official and criminal status which is odd since it doesn’t meet criteria to even be recognised and is nowhere even hinted as being a criminal group. Another interesting thing is that one of the members of the group is Grandpa Corleone who is set as rank 71 (high enough to have drug market access with the highest prices possible). This individual is nowhere mentioned in the forum topic. Clearly there’s been a gross misuse of power here and it needs to be investigated thoroughly to determine who has and in what way made all of this possible and has profited from it.
I think it's time to start talking about the problems instead of just sweeping them under the rug.
-
The "III Punishment Overhaul" Is on point brother. Ive been on the edge of a perm Ban for something not worthy of such, just for questioning the authority of the Judgement, and warned by other Admins for things more worthy of a Ban when i play the "Ass kisser" role. No disrespect intended, thats the only way i know how to word it. I love the community but also believe it needs work. Some of the other server's way of Admin-ing, I guess if I can call it that, Puts this one to shame. Maybe thats why we do not have many players? Then again I believe there are multiple reasons we do not have many players. But over all I love Argonath very very much. And thanks for featuring me in your signature. I feel famous.
-
The "III Punishment Overhaul" Is on point brother. Ive been on the edge of a perm Ban for something not worthy of such, just for questioning the authority of the Judgement, and warned by other Admins for things more worthy of a Ban when i play the "Ass kisser" role.
The punishment a staff member issues is their own decision, if you don't like a decision a staff member has made the best option for you is to send a report in to server management. I wouldn't go calling out the administration team in this topic based on decisions that you didn't think were justified. Again if you have problems with administration, you know who to go to.
-
The punishment a staff member issues is their decision, if you don't like the decision a staff member made the best option for you is to send a report in to server management. I wouldn't go calling out the administration team in this topic based on decisions that you didn't think were justified. Again if you have problems with administration, you know who to go to.
Just what I would expect.... smh. "Lets just sweep it under the rug and take it to a higher authority" Again, I feel like I am trying to express the concern in the nicest way possible, and you people come at me as if i launched some type of verbal attack campaign against you.
-
You need to realise with a roleplay server there are so many different circumstances that one can get involved in at any point during the day. For us to go and write up a giant rule book to say what to do when something happens it will just end up being a waste of time at the end of the day. If we were to tell staff what to do every single time a player gets reported we may as well automate the administration script and remove all admins.
There are rules set, staff are aware of those rules and they are provided with reasonable ideas on how to handle most if not all cases however depending on the situation they are allowed to punish as they feel fit. Indeed sometimes punishments are too harsh and those that are reported are dealt with accordingly.
If you want staff to improve and you see issues, it doesn't help if you don't let us know so we can address those issues.
-
You need to realise with a roleplay server there are so many different circumstances that one can get involved in at any point during the day. For us to go and write up a giant rule book to say what to do when something happens it will just end up being a waste of time at the end of the day. If we were to tell staff what to do every single time a player gets reported we may as well automate the administration script and remove all admins.
There are rules set, staff are aware of those rules and they are provided with reasonable ideas on how to handle most if not all cases however depending on the situation they are allowed to punish as they feel fit. Indeed sometimes punishments are too harsh and those that are reported are dealt with accordingly.
If you want staff to improve and you see issues, it doesn't help if you don't let us know so we can address those issues.
Well said bro. I think this made what Justin was trying to say more understandable for me. I agree
-
This topic is just perfect.
-
All staff have access to a scenarios and responses topic which provides logical answers and ways to handle specific situations that happen, it's a mere guideline but we trust staff can issue correct punishment at the correct time. If you find your punishment is unfair and excessive then file a report, HQ will read it over and decide whether or not that Admin was right or could have done something else. It is need in dire updating which I'll do once I announce the moderator wave tomorrow.
We have no way of removing groups since HQ don't have override access to close inactive groups with banned leaders, if we did you wouldn't see them existing today. As for the Fourm Boards that's up to the Forum Staff to sort out any unwanted posts.
Group creation in-game through the group script was you had to wait a minimum of a month with five members minimum and your group topic active, to avoid confusion we'll revert back to what it is in the in-game /grouphelp command which should be two weeks and five members minimum. Those that have recognized status, the only one being Highway Runners they might be slacking in-game in terms of activity, I'll be sure to check upon them and see if they are going to continue being in-game and roleplaying else strip the aforementioned status. Grove Street are active in-game and do roleplay, while they may not update their topic with dope screenshots we still feel they can hold onto it.
-
III Punishment Overhaul
1.) Admins are not robots, they are different individuals with different characteristics. The common ground between all of them is that they stick to simple-but-essential regulations and help others. Otherwise they have no business being on the team.
2.) This is a global community, filled with many players from different cultures and backgrounds, possessing different characteristics. The Admin Team is no different. Just because an admin sounds like a cactus (within reason) or doesn't sweet talk everyone they meet, it doesn't mean they are incompetent or undeserving.
3.) There have been proposals and attempts in the past, from both inside and outside the team, to make a huge-ass rulebook governing every admin's actions. But as Gandalf and Devin said, making a bible of rules for every little shit would only unnecessarily restrict things.
4.) Of course, the uniqueness of admins has the downside of some players going to "less strict" admins for what they want when a "more strict" admin says no. But do this, and good luck being found out. Boromir was very strict on this.
5.) Corruption within the admin team is not tolerated. Having all those commands at your disposal isn't like being given a bag of candy and making merry, they come with responsibilities. There's a reason the selection process is strict.
6.) Reports being "private" isn't "sweeping it under the rug", it's making sure that the people who see the complaints are the ones who actually need to see them. One reason for this, truth be told, is that we have a lot of immature idiots who can't handle being punished, and would jump at the first opportunity to discredit certain admins in public.
-
{post}
1.) 2.) 3.) 4.)
I do realise that. However I do believe that there is a set of extremely common circumstances which could be further abstracted to form a rule of the aforementioned rulebook. Maybe this isn't the greatest idea, it just often seems so to me. It's equally counterproductive to have three different administrators give a rulebreaker a pass, warn and ban.
All staff have access to a scenarios and responses topic which provides logical answers and ways to handle specific situations that happen, it's a mere guideline but we trust staff can issue correct punishment at the correct time. If you find your punishment is unfair and excessive then file a report, HQ will read it over and decide whether or not that Admin was right or could have done something else. It is need in dire updating which I'll do once I announce the moderator wave tomorrow.
(y)
We have no way of removing groups since HQ don't have override access to close inactive groups with banned leaders, if we did you wouldn't see them existing today.
Perhaps we might see something like this added in the near future?
Group creation in-game through the group script was you had to wait a minimum of a month with five members minimum and your group topic active, to avoid confusion we'll revert back to what it is in the in-game /grouphelp command which should be two weeks and five members minimum.
Wouldn't that just create more /group clutter? :sweat:
6.) Reports being "private" isn't "sweeping it under the rug", it's making sure that the people who see the complaints are the ones who actually need to see them. One reason for this, truth be told, is that we have a lot of immature idiots who can't handle being punished, and would jump at the first opportunity to discredit certain admins in public.
I wasn't in any way referring to the way reports are being handled with that remark. It was aimed at the general mindset of the community. A good example of this is everyone fearfully avoiding the 4th paragraph. :uhm:
-
Fearfully avoiding the fourth paragraph? No... it's because nobody who had answered can answer that question yet.
In regards to the group topics, we have NEVER restricted a forum board to strictly IC, because, you know what, it kinda sucks to be honest with you. I never personally liked the idea of using an out of game medium to carry on IC.
-
Haha, I'm going to focus on Para 4, and only Para 4.
Don't worry yourself about it, and enjoy your own gameplay. There's things in life you should worry about...but this isn't one of them.
I find it funny!
-
I believe this (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116706.msg1834538;topicseen#new) can be added to the list
-
You don't need a jungle of rules or a 600 page book to list them all.
Most servers survive with 10 listed rules with outlined punishments, if it ever comes to an skin's decision, it's probably a special scenario.
-
Haha, I'm going to focus on Para 4, and only Para 4.
Don't worry yourself about it, and enjoy your own gameplay. There's things in life you should worry about...but this isn't one of them.
I find it funny!
I find it funny when majority of players are called abusing cunts for cmd or group abuse while the rest isn't doing or showing a good example. This sure is a small thing that tbh most of people won't even care about, too bad , someone should remember it the next time he will be called cunt or abuser.
-
I tried contacting the groups and families board administrators about cleaning up the board with inactive topics or as the rule states "Topics which haven't been posted in for 90 days". Hope it gets cleaned up soon, no results yet!
-
IV Corruption and Abuse
With every social system there will be corruption and abuse. On servers like this one, sure, an admin might give his good friend a cheeky teleport every now and again. That’s not what I’ll be talking about here though, this appears to be much, much worse. It has recently come to my attention that certain groups have an incorrect status. One of these groups is TheodoreEnterprise. It is a group that is listed as the protector on many of the prime properties throughout the map which hold a great value and even more unused RP potential. This group has six members only one of which is showing activity in-game. It has official status. Another group is TEResearch, RPly a department of the previously mentioned group. This group doesn’t have it’s own topic but is mentioned in the Theodore Enterprise topic. It is mentioned in the topic 7 times, one of which was to establish its existence, two were job listings, three hiring notices and the last was a progress update. It’s your run of the mill corporate group with little to no activity. This group has official and criminal status which is odd since it doesn’t meet criteria to even be recognised and is nowhere even hinted as being a criminal group. Another interesting thing is that one of the members of the group is Grandpa Corleone who is set as rank 71 (high enough to have drug market access with the highest prices possible). This individual is nowhere mentioned in the forum topic. Clearly there’s been a gross misuse of power here and it needs to be investigated thoroughly to determine who has and in what way made all of this possible and has profited from it.
I have began addressing issues just like the one you stated here, sadly I can't be everywhere all of the time to monitor everything going on around the server both ingame and on the forum. The issue brought up here however has already been partially resolved however there's still more to deal with. Regarding a group being listed as a protector hardly means anything so I don't exactly know why you bring this up. The property owner themselves set whoever they want as a protector.
-
Fearfully avoiding the fourth paragraph? No... it's because nobody who had answered can answer that question yet.
Then who can?
In regards to the group topics, we have NEVER restricted a forum board to strictly IC, because, you know what, it kinda sucks to be honest with you. I never personally liked the idea of using an out of game medium to carry on IC.
The forums are currently riddled with posts alike “good luckâ€, “thanksâ€, “hey hi helloâ€, “hey guys just checking inâ€, “y0 chek out dis sick tune lads <ytvid>†etc. The forum administration could write up a set of rules the users must abide by e.g. no off topic OR even any unnecessary OOC content in the Groups and Families board, zero tolerance for provoking or flaming of any sort etc.
I didn't suggest OOC communication be barred completely I merely believe it would be a good idea to somehow lower the amount of spam.
Haha, I'm going to focus on Para 4, and only Para 4.
Don't worry yourself about it, and enjoy your own gameplay. There's things in life you should worry about...but this isn't one of them.
I find it funny!
I find it funny when majority of players are called abusing cunts for cmd or group abuse while the rest isn't doing or showing a good example. This sure is a small thing that tbh most of people won't even care about, too bad , someone should remember it the next time he will be called cunt or abuser.
(y)(y)(y)
You don't need a jungle of rules or a 600 page book to list them all.
Most servers survive with 10 listed rules with outlined punishments, if it ever comes to an skin's decision, it's probably a special scenario.
I do realise that. However I do believe that there is a set of extremely common circumstances which could be further abstracted to form a rule of the aforementioned rulebook. Maybe this isn't the greatest idea, it just often seems so to me. It's equally counterproductive to have three different administrators give a rulebreaker a pass, warn and ban.
Where exactly did you see me advocate for a jungle of rules or a 600 page book? In fact your own suggestion seems to be in line with mine... Perhaps instead of 10, we could have 20 or 30 rules or however many necessary to describe to most common scenario types.
I have began addressing issues just like the one you stated here, sadly I can't be everywhere all of the time to monitor everything going on around the server both ingame and on the forum. The issue brought up here however has already been partially resolved however there's still more to deal with.
I'm glad to hear it. I hope you will not stop until everyone involved in this instance of profiteering script abuse is discovered and punished justly. Perhaps the scripting team could put into place certain alerts for actions that aren't performed very often but can be detrimental to the servers economy e.g. changing groups' statuses, spawning items, money..
I urge everyone to read the topic in its entirety and also the replies that have already been posted before replying themselves.
-
Then who can?
Theodore Enterprises -> Teddy
-
I'll do once I announce the moderator wave tomorrow.
said that on monday m9
-
The punishment a staff member issues is their own decision, if you don't like a decision a staff member has made the best option for you is to send a report in to server management. I wouldn't go calling out the administration team in this topic based on decisions that you didn't think were justified. Again if you have problems with administration, you know who to go to.
What happens when the admin you report is the one who handles the report? Or when the one who handles it is good friends? I don't say that admins shouldn't be friends but you gotta put work infront of personal relations. And there should be a rule that a member of the administration can't handle reports against him or members of his groups.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the group problem, the only way that I see the issue being fixed is a modernization, return and update of ARUN, in which some members of it(or all of them) become some sort of "Head of Groups"/"Head of Clans" etc. position, in which your task is to maintain the general affairs of groups. (And perhaps limit the number of groups who can take part of it and raise the requirements of one joining.
-
In fact your own suggestion seems to be in line with mine...
Because it is, sherlock.
-
It's rather interesting how you complain about redundant groups owning big amount of properties when you own 1/4 of Los Santos yourself and I've never seen you organize any mass RPs.....
That being said I do think official groups are a joke, you know something is wrong when a group that's been around for just 1 year and has only 10 topic pages has an official status.
-
It's rather interesting how you complain about redundant groups owning big amount of properties when you own 1/4 of Los Santos yourself and I've never seen you organize any mass RPs.....
Not roleplaying with "everyone" doesn't actually mean that he doesn't roleplay. we (as GSF) and Araatus do roleplay with barabe. your group does not have to be popular in game to notice if they roleplay or not. And yes he does own most of downtown due to his "RP" scenes which he use probably. you dont have to rp with every single person in server so they judge if they rp or not. besides its clearly 3/4 of role plays end with DM even for "car accidents"
-
Not roleplaying with "everyone" doesn't actually mean that he doesn't roleplay. we (as GSF) and Araatus do roleplay with barabe. your group does not have to be popular in game to notice if they roleplay or not. And yes he does own most of downtown due to his "RP" scenes which he use probably. you dont have to rp with every single person in server so they judge if they rp or not. besides its clearly 3/4 of role plays end with DM even for "car accidents"
Yes I agree with that, but he basically threw the same accusation in his first post at other people.
-
Not roleplaying with "everyone" doesn't actually mean that he doesn't roleplay. we (as GSF) and Araatus do roleplay with barabe. your group does not have to be popular in game to notice if they roleplay or not. "
I haven't seen a Barabe, GSF, or Araatus online this whole month, less for RP scenarios.
-
Yes I agree with that, but he basically threw the same accusation in his first post at other people.
He owns downtown the place no one wants. Teddy owns all the wanted poperties. Also Djole bought it with legit cash.
-
I haven't seen a Barabe, GSF, or Araatus online this whole month, less for RP scenarios.
Yes. if you noticed, players online this month has decreased, but this is due to exams. we do try to get on when we have free time to do so. i'm not sure of other groups.
-
legit cash
can someone emphasize on how theodore enterprise got their "legit cash"
thx
-
I haven't seen a Barabe, GSF, or Araatus online this whole month, less for RP scenarios.
Nope i won't let you talk like that about us if you don't know anything.
(http://i.imgur.com/RP9IaiG.png)
Most of us are inactive for school, we all got final exams to attend and others got real life issues to deal with. Two of us got no PC at moment and they are doing their best to come back as soon possible. Even tho me and others got exams, we still come in-game to roleplay with others, the screenshots in our topic are just a part of what we do in-game.
I have no intention to come in-game and fuck around just to keep the activity of my group up. I hope i won't have to explain again the reasons behind the inactivity, it's obvious every group got ups and downs, we are still kicking in.
-
can someone emphasize on how theodore enterprise got their "legit cash"
thx
I meant Djole owning downtown
-
Because it is, sherlock.
10/10 shitpost. (y)
It's rather interesting how you complain about redundant groups owning big amount of properties when you own 1/4 of Los Santos yourself and I've never seen you organize any mass RPs.....
Barabe is still a group that's struggling to get members as we don't want "12 yearolds who don't know english and only DM" (not a provocation or slander, this is a direct quote from a leader of a big LS group directed at his own members). We aim to promote quality roleplay and in turn are looking for quality roleplayers. I think you'll agree that isn't an easy task on Argonath. However we are making progress, organising more people, and the big amount of properties which make up 1/4 of Los Santos will soon be in the hands of new members and each of those properties will be home to a unique RP. On another note do you genuinely expect a group that's been active for as little as a few months to organise multiple mass RPs?
That being said I do think official groups are a joke, you know something is wrong when a group that's been around for just 1 year and has only 10 topic pages has an official status.
Yeah...
Not roleplaying with "everyone" doesn't actually mean that he doesn't roleplay.
Yes I agree with that, but he basically threw the same accusation in his first post at other people.
Where exactly do you see me throwing accusations in any of my posts? The problems I have stated in the first post are facts. Facts with whom you yourself have agreed just one reply above in the thread. I didn't state any specific groups are a problem, or that all of them are a problem. I merely pointed out that it might be a good idea to reevaluate certain groups' statuses.
I haven't seen a Barabe, GSF, or Araatus online this whole month, less for RP scenarios.
As I previously said Barabe are still struggling with recruiting new members and developing our groups' and character stories, but from all I can tell a good percentage of our members are quite active. As far as GSF goes frankly I have no idea what you've been looking at if you haven't seen them online...
can someone emphasize on how theodore enterprise got their "legit cash"
thx
Please refrain from making slanderous accusations - this is exactly what your comment is. Do you have any evidence to support this claim? It'd be a whole different thing if someone from said organisation was found guilty of abuse of power and script abuse mentioned in the 4th paragraph of this topic, then we'd be able to ask more questions. However as of now these claims are highly malicious. All I will further comment regarding this matter is that the timing of selling some of the properties mentioned in this thread, which I assume are also the ones you're referring to, is at the very least, suspicious.
Once again it has proven that having a constructive and non-provocative discussion on these forums is impossible. I once again urge the community to read the topic and replies thoroughly before posting your replies.
-
10/10 shitpost. (y)
Barabe is still a group that's struggling to get members as we don't want "12 yearolds who don't know english and only DM" (not a provocation or slander, this is a direct quote from a leader of a big LS group directed at his own members). We aim to promote quality roleplay and in turn are looking for quality roleplayers. I think you'll agree that isn't an easy task on Argonath. However we are making progress, organising more people, and the big amount of properties which make up 1/4 of Los Santos will soon be in the hands of new members and each of those properties will be home to a unique RP. On another note do you genuinely expect a group that's been active for as little as a few months to organise multiple mass RPs?
Yeah...
Where exactly do you see me throwing accusations in any of my posts? The problems I have stated in the first post are facts. Facts with whom you yourself have agreed just one reply above in the thread. I didn't state any specific groups are a problem, or that all of them are a problem. I merely pointed out that it might be a good idea to reevaluate certain groups' statuses.
As I previously said Barabe are still struggling with recruiting new members and developing our groups' and character stories, but from all I can tell a good percentage of our members are quite active. As far as GSF goes frankly I have no idea what you've been looking at if you haven't seen them online...
Please refrain from making slanderous accusations - this is exactly what your comment is. Do you have any evidence to support this claim? It'd be a whole different thing if someone from said organisation was found guilty of abuse of power and script abuse mentioned in the 4th paragraph of this topic, then we'd be able to ask more questions. However as of now these claims are highly malicious. All I will further comment regarding this matter is that the timing of selling some of the properties mentioned in this thread, which I assume are also the ones you're referring to, is at the very least, suspicious.
Once again it has proven that having a constructive and non-provocative discussion on these forums is impossible. Perhaps it might be a good idea to lock this thread up to prevent further pointless and off-topic arguments.
Also some of properties have been taken from players without real reason.
-
Just because activity isn't posted on a topic like it's some fucking Instagram feed, doesn't mean activity and progress isn't happening. In fact it's most intentional the activities of my business aren't conducted by me anymore or in broad daylight. But do not doubt, whenever I am in-game I always have created circumstance for quality roleplay and did so quite extensively when first forming the Enterprise which led to it's status. So, here's an idea for your issue: why don't you shut up with what you don't know. Thanks.
-
Just because activity isn't posted on a topic like it's some fucking Instagram feed, doesn't mean activity and progress isn't happening.
It's one thing to not be posting to a groups'/businesses' topic like it's some fucking instagram feed, however it's a completely different story to barely post any updates at all. And correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't a group that has the highest status possible IG be active in all forms i.e. also the forums and in turn promote well constructed RP scenarios all across the community?
In fact it's most intentional the activities of my business aren't conducted by me anymore or in broad daylight.
Pardon me for asking but since you've brought it up who does conduct the day-to-day affairs so to speak? I think that would certainly clear some things up activity-wise unless this is some sort of confidential trade secret of your group. From what I've seen only one of the members (unless there are associates which are not listed under the group) is active and from what I've also noticed he's mostly, if not entirely roleplaying a different character nowdays.
But do not doubt, whenever I am in-game I always have created circumstance for quality roleplay and did so quite extensively when first forming the Enterprise which led to it's status.
Once again I'm not really aiming to be considered as a shit talker or to be provoking, but you've brought the matter up on your own. How often are you really IG and actually actively roleplaying? Would this amount of activity be considered adequate for a member (a leader at that) of an official group? I understand you're quite busy being a manager and if I've gathered correctly some sort of scripting team head/leader? but that shouldn't really be an excuse now should it? And in this instance I was not questioning how this group got its status I was merely presenting the current state of things as far as the public eye could see.
On another note the multiple incorrect statuses (official, criminal) of TER, a subsidiary of TE, were also brought into question and found nullified soon after the posting of this thread. This fact in itself exposes the status of it's mother company (group) to scrutiny.
So, here's an idea for your issue: why don't you shut up with what you don't know. Thanks.
Now this brings me to my last point, and I've gotta say this reply was the toughest one to read and also to reply to. I don't understand where all of this hostility is coming from... Even if I am in fact completely wrong in the matter, this is surely no way for any member of the community to be speaking to another, especially newer member, particularly if you're a high ranking official of the administration team and from what I've heard, to some, a valued member of the community.
I apologise if you've found yourself insulted in any way because of this thread. Though I believe it was well enough worded and well intentioned in its nature so not to offend anyone, but simply, to point out some minor or more important issues with the server and in the community currently and to offer some insight into how they may be resolved.
I suppose I expected this thread to be a lot more well accepted by the community and for the members to also present their own well established views on the presented matters at hand.
On another note I'd just like to check in with @Devin to see if there's been any progress with finding the culprit(s) and accomplice(s) of the power/script abuse that had taken place earlier this month.
I hope we can continue this discussion in a more civilised manner as some of these subjects have appeared to cause certain people to lose their temper.
Cheers,
Djole
-
Well I hope this won't get locked.
Communication between players and server HQ is vital.
-
It's one thing to not be posting to a groups'/businesses' topic like it's some fucking instagram feed, however it's a completely different story to barely post any updates at all. And correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't a group that has the highest status possible IG be active in all forms i.e. also the forums and in turn promote well constructed RP scenarios all across the community?
I did post updates often but nobody seemed interested, so I stopped. Besides, I see no obligation to post the businesses affairs to people who they really have no affect on.
Pardon me for asking but since you've brought it up who does conduct the day-to-day affairs so to speak? I think that would certainly clear some things up activity-wise unless this is some sort of confidential trade secret of your group. From what I've seen only one of the members (unless there are associates which are not listed under the group) is active and from what I've also noticed he's mostly, if not entirely roleplaying a different character nowdays.
There are two business fronts and out of roleplay I will say TEResearch is the "less than legal" aspect of the Enterprise. You pointed out some indicators of that, and for that reason much of the operational details are kept under wrap. As for the main Enterprise; it's exact operations are mainly in funding at this point. We fund iDrive and a few other groups (although timezones are becoming a problem along with my availability). In addition, you can see our legal division having some fingers on some court cases in recent weeks.
Once again I'm not really aiming to be considered as a shit talker or to be provoking, but you've brought the matter up on your own. How often are you really IG and actually actively roleplaying? Would this amount of activity be considered adequate for a member (a leader at that) of an official group? I understand you're quite busy being a manager and if I've gathered correctly some sort of scripting team head/leader? but that shouldn't really be an excuse now should it? And in this instance I was not questioning how this group got its status I was merely presenting the current state of things as far as the public eye could see.
I am not a manager anymore, I have resigned so I will have more freetime to spend in-game without being annoyed with stupid bored kids and be able to roleplay as much as we once did. Yes, I am not able to get in-game as much as I was able to a year ago, or even a few months ago, but I am still committed to TE and it's subsidiaries.
Yes, I am the scripting team leader of SA-MP RPG, plus I serve as a development aide to the rest of the community including the forums, and a few other game servers. I do believe that my commitment to the community does render a bit of a break of not being able to spend hours on end in-game
Now this brings me to my last point, and I've gotta say this reply was the toughest one to read and also to reply to. I don't understand where all of this hostility is coming from... Even if I am in fact completely wrong in the matter, this is surely no way for any member of the community to be speaking to another, especially newer member, particularly if you're a high ranking official of the administration team and from what I've heard, to some, a valued member of the community.
The hostility is at everyone. I am so sick and tired of people bitching without know what the fuck they are talking about. In truth, I am just so sick of bitching entirely, it never ends. I will give you credit for taking an effort to fix it but I do not appreciate you throwing around shit in the first place without getting the facts straight. One of the reasons I resigned as a manager is so I could actually just focus on getting in-game and closer with the community, and no on the forums dealing with everyone's shit moaning... mostly from people who don't even play.
-
Teddy do you mind explaining here, publicly, why was i suspended and banned?
-
Teddy do you mind explaining here, publicly, why was i suspended and banned?
What about you start thinking before you post and stop putting Teddy in a shitty position?
-
Teddy do you mind explaining here, publicly, why was i suspended and banned?
If you really want to go down this road in public. I would've preferred to respect your right to keep this private.
You were suspended for a pending investigation into a large handful of different complaints. A suspension was a choice due to the sheer number of complaints, I found that rather than let more cases possibly be opened, we investigate the one's we had more closely. A select few of those cases had grounds to consider them legitimate.
You were banned for acting like a god damn child. My banning you wasn't intended to be a perm. just for you to calm down before you did something stupid. I've since resigned as a manager and am no longer handling your case.
-
Well I hope this won't get locked.
Communication between players and server HQ is vital.
I have never been against communication. What isn't beneficial is aimless moaning for the sake of bitching, that I have been against and won't deal with. Constructive criticism, always welcome. You are simply ignorant if you've thought otherwise.
-
As i said back then, i got evidence of what i was accused for, which is punishing a player for something that happened while i was on nonadmin, being false. I offered it to you, but you didn't care much (atleast from what i saw). The moment you decided to suspend me, it went public. I could have simply answered every question you had and provided everything you needed to investigate the whole case without getting suspended at first. When we joined staff, you told us we're a team. That's not how i threat my team mates, and that's not how i like to be threated either.
-
As i said back then, i got evidence of what i was accused for, which is punishing a player for something that happened while i was on nonadmin, being false. I offered it to you. The moment you decided to suspend me it went public. I could have simply answered every question you had and provided everything you needed to investigated without getting suspended at first. When we joined staff, you told us we're a team. That's not how i threat my team mates, and that's not how i like to be threated either.
That was one specific case. One of many.
and do you know how stupid it is to question someone before investigating? then selecting to investigate based on their answers? That has to be the most illogical thing I have ever heard.
Yes, I said you were a team. You're absolutely right. You also have a responsibility to be a mature member of that team. You failed to deliver on that. You got punished. Suck it up and deal with it buttercup. I don't think the current HQ will even consider taking you back after a little fit like that. It's not the kind of behavior expected of staff.
-
I still don't see which part of my behaviour you consider immature. Did i get pissed after getting suspended? Yes. I shared my thoughts with my group members only, and in no way targeted you or anyone else, which is what i got accused for also.
-
If you don't understand what you've done wrong, you only prove you didn't deserve to be in the team in the first place.
-
I did post updates often but nobody seemed interested, so I stopped. Besides, I see no obligation to post the businesses affairs to people who they really have no affect on.
I see how you might be discouraged by the lack of interest within the community but that shouldn't really stop an official group from posting their awesome RP ss. I suppose if everyone had that attitude we wouldn't see any activity posted in the groups and families subforum.
There are two business fronts and out of roleplay I will say TEResearch is the "less than legal" aspect of the Enterprise. You pointed out some indicators of that, and for that reason much of the operational details are kept under wrap. As for the main Enterprise; it's exact operations are mainly in funding at this point. We fund iDrive and a few other groups (although timezones are becoming a problem along with my availability). In addition, you can see our legal division having some fingers on some court cases in recent weeks.
The thing that raised suspicion was that TER was never even hinted at being even mildly criminal in any of the seven posts mentioning it on the TE topic. This is the first it's mentioned in such regard. There's also the matter of the group's criminal status being stripped in the past days. Why was it removed if this group is in fact a criminal group. And how come the only other level 70+ member who in fact could have benefited greatly from this abuse was also not once mentioned on the forums? I suppose to the average outsider it just seems all too convenient.
I am not a manager anymore, I have resigned so I will have more freetime to spend in-game without being annoyed with stupid bored kids and be able to roleplay as much as we once did. Yes, I am not able to get in-game as much as I was able to a year ago, or even a few months ago, but I am still committed to TE and it's subsidiaries.
I still don't see why you find it necessary to use these derogatory terms when speaking about the population of the server you spend so much time building and supposedly making a better place.
It's fully understandable that a period of inactivity has come for you. I assume everyone here has had multiple. It's good to see an intention to keep a group alive even at such a time.
Yes, I am the scripting team leader of SA-MP RPG, plus I serve as a development aide to the rest of the community including the forums, and a few other game servers. I do believe that my commitment to the community does render a bit of a break of not being able to spend hours on end in-game
Of course it is entirely understandable that you don't have as much time to actually play the game you're coding but I don't think that should protect the group(s) from being under scrutiny. We can't however just hit a pause button on the groups and let them keep their privileged statuses.
The hostility is at everyone. I am so sick and tired of people bitching without know what the fuck they are talking about. In truth, I am just so sick of bitching entirely, it never ends. I will give you credit for taking an effort to fix it but I do not appreciate you throwing around shit in the first place without getting the facts straight. One of the reasons I resigned as a manager is so I could actually just focus on getting in-game and closer with the community, and no on the forums dealing with everyone's shit moaning... mostly from people who don't even play.
Here we go again. I realise having to deal with people you'd really rather not, who are annoying, childish, purposely trolling or just being plain dicks can be hard but that's no reason to put up a wall of condescension toward anyone and everyone. For the record I don't know what you mean by taking an effort to fix it. Fix what? What did I metaphorically break? Neither was I throwing around shit. I just expressed my, most important of all, well founded concerns and was met with the most horrible attitude by many of the people who had replied.
I also don't see why you're so bothered with everyone's shit moaning. Yes, I see a lot of the shitposts that are circling the forums. This is once again no reason for you to become upset or pissed of at those individuals and especially not at the community as a whole. You spend your time making something for the exact same people you appear to hate. Why do you do it? And if it bothers you so much, and you accept to do it anyway, then learn to let things go and not let the assholes bother you instead of blowing up at every single person you come across.
I have never been against communication. What isn't beneficial is aimless moaning for the sake of bitching, that I have been against and won't deal with. Constructive criticism, always welcome. You are simply ignorant if you've thought otherwise.
I don't see how this is relevant to the topic at hand, however if it was aimed at the topic specifically I don't see how you could possibly take it as aimless moaning simply for the sake of bitching.
It seems as though this thread has been a complete waste time since most of the replies I'm obliged to respond to in a civilised and well founded manner are completely missing the point of the subjects at hand. I also don't appreciate it in the least being spoken to in this manner.
-
Well, i don't and i would really appreciate if you would explain to me what exactly did i do wrong.
-
The thing that raised suspicion was that TER was never even hinted at being even mildly criminal in any of the seven posts mentioning it on the TE topic. This is the first it's mentioned in such regard. There's also the matter of the group's criminal status being stripped in the past days. Why was it removed if this group is in fact a criminal group. And how come the only other level 70+ member who in fact could have benefited greatly from this abuse was also not once mentioned on the forums? I suppose to the average outsider it just seems all too convenient.
Why the hell would I publish that a legitimate enterprise has a subsidiary that is organized crime? What business that is a front for criminal activity fucking does that? What the hell. I mean, group / business topics are "somewhat" roleplay.. here isn't so nobody can really use that in context.
If it was removed, it will be fixed. It shouldn't have. This also isn't abuse. This was calculated business activity. The person with level 70 was given such intentionally for access to the drug market in order to conduct business on behalf of myself. Business, which took place in multiple roleplay meetings, arrangements, and transactions, for your information.
I still don't see why you find it necessary to use these derogatory terms when speaking about the population of the server you spend so much time building and supposedly making a better place.
Yeah, I guess I just don't give a shit anymore. I get treated like shit by even people I trust and fuck all comes of it. Am I in the wrong? Perhaps, actually most definitely. Unlike Jov, I can admit when I am wrong. I can admit when I've fucked up. Truth be told I've fucked it all up and that's perhaps why I am most pissed off. I took my job with the promise to make things better. I made the fatal mistake of trying to fix a community that doesn't want to be fixed. I saw that when RS4 was live for a day. How quick people were to snap their mindsets to what they really wanted. In truth, I failed. I fucked up.
-
Why the hell would I publish that a legitimate enterprise has a subsidiary that is organized crime? What business that is a front for criminal activity fucking does that? What the hell. I mean, group / business topics are "somewhat" roleplay.. here isn't so nobody can really use that in context.
Every single criminal group on the server does it... The topics are barely even at all RP. Why doesn't the FBI build cases against each and every one of the criminal organisations that has posted activity screenshots where they appear to be dealing with drugs (they haven't put a disclaimer that says the content is OOC either). The group / business topic replies are mostly OOC from what I've gathered with an exception here and there where the groups post IC content.
If it was removed, it will be fixed. It shouldn't have. This also isn't abuse. This was calculated business activity. The person with level 70 was given such intentionally for access to the drug market in order to conduct business on behalf of myself. Business, which took place in multiple roleplay meetings, arrangements, and transactions, for your information.
No, that isn't abuse if you had established a RP connection with the individual in question. But setting the group to official status in combination with criminal is clear abuse and the culprits must be found and punished. Also all of the excess profit gained from the drugs sold to the market at the time the group had boosted prices due to the status combination should be removed. Perhaps even all of the profits since the individual must have noticed the error and hadn't reported it. This group did not meet the requirements to be an official group in any way whatsoever.
-
Every single criminal group on the server does it... The topics are barely even at all RP. Why doesn't the FBI build cases against each and every one of the criminal organisations that has posted activity screenshots where they appear to be dealing with drugs (they haven't put a disclaimer that says the content is OOC either). The group / business topic replies are mostly OOC from what I've gathered with an exception here and there where the groups post IC content.
The FBI builds cases against them, I won't divulge into the depth of the FBI since it's much deeper than people notice. However, the FBI knows they are criminals, so they know to keep an eye on them. If the FBI doesn't know a group is a criminal, they won't know to look into them. Logic right?
No, that isn't abuse if you had established a RP connection with the individual in question. But setting the group to official status in combination with criminal is clear abuse and the culprits must be found and punished. Also all of the excess profit gained from the drugs sold to the market at the time the group had boosted prices due to the status combination should be removed. Perhaps even all of the profits since the individual must have noticed the error and hadn't reported it. This group did not meet the requirements to be an official group in any way whatsoever.
The official status and criminal status were set long ago, before the new drug system. The group also inherited the official status from it's parent company. There isn't much "rules" for businesses, so nobody said anything against it. You can blame the broken management / leadership system from before that proper outline for usage wasn't drawn out for a system they designed. Of course, we didn't do any better by not finishing it. We're at fault too (look Jov, more responsibility!)
-
The FBI builds cases against them, I won't divulge into the depth of the FBI since it's much deeper than people notice. However, the FBI knows they are criminals, so they know to keep an eye on them. If the FBI doesn't know a group is a criminal, they won't know to look into them. Logic right?
... You just said yourself that the boards in question are IC which was your reason for not posting TER as a criminal organisation. So why wouldn't the FBI be able to say HEY! These guys are posting about drugs! They're criminals! Let's build a case against them! Logic right? (You're pretty much acting the same way in which the people you accuse of creating a toxic environment do... There's really no need to speak to anyone in this community in this manner, especially someone who hasn't done a single thing to incite it.)
The official status and criminal status were set long ago, before the new drug system. The group also inherited the official status from it's parent company. There isn't much "rules" for businesses, so nobody said anything against it. You can blame the broken management / leadership system from before that proper outline for usage wasn't drawn out for a system they designed. Of course, we didn't do any better by not finishing it. We're at fault too (look Jov, more responsibility!)
I don't see how this changes anything. You were at fault by coding the weed system poorly which allowed people to exploit it and gain insane yields. You were at fault by using fixed times for the meth cooking timers which allowed a certain organisation and their associates to use automated scripts to farm the drug overnight. In both cases the individuals have been punished and their profits taken away + been given a fine. I don't see why this case should be any different.
-
So now you guys see the real reason of this topic, its all salty Jovanca and hit butthurt friend who is mad at Teddy for banning him so just decides to start a drama topic on forums. Djole you've been here for about 3 months, if you don't know shit, don't throw random accusations out there. Don't let Jovanca influence you into making a fool out of yourself in public.
-
... You just said yourself that the boards in question are IC which was your reason for not posting TER as a criminal organisation. So why wouldn't the FBI be able to say HEY! These guys are posting about drugs! They're criminals! Let's build a case against them! Logic right? (You're pretty much acting the same way in which the people you accuse of creating a toxic environment do... There's really no need to speak to anyone in this community in this manner, especially someone who hasn't done a single thing to incite it.)
I am not saying it's right that it is done... but admittedly people here aren't that complex to separate in character and out of character. Partly due to the fact that community has discouraged the use of them. Sure, to more intellectually sound people it's logic... but let's be honest... people use shit from out of roleplay in roleplay all the time.
I don't see how this changes anything. You were at fault by coding the weed system poorly which allowed people to exploit it and gain insane yields. You were at fault by using fixed times for the meth cooking timers which allowed a certain organisation and their associates to use automated scripts to farm the drug overnight. In both cases the individuals have been punished and their profits taken away + been given a fine. I don't see why this case should be any different.
That is two different contexts, but thanks for blaming me for another developer's system's faults. Mainly when one of those things, the developer told me was done when I asked at the end of beta. Sure, though I will admit as a team leader I should've taken more care to review the code myself to ensure they were telling me the whole story. Anything else I should be aware of is my fault?
-
So now you guys see the real reason of this topic, its all salty Jovanca and hit butthurt friend who is mad at Teddy for banning him so just decides to start a drama topic on forums. Djole you've been here for about 3 months, if you don't know shit, don't throw random accusations out there. Don't let Jovanca influence you into making a fool out of yourself in public.
Interesting, I wasn't aware the connection. Thanks for the information.