Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Ramo_Hawk on May 29, 2016, 01:15:29 am

Title: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on May 29, 2016, 01:15:29 am
I have posted this on Devin's topic 'Current Behavior' a couple of weeks ago and unfortunately it wasn't given the attention it deserves. Server has been going crazy lately with absolute nonsense from these constant arguments the groups have and as Leon Arallian has previously stated on a topic, that a solution has to be found otherwise it will lead to unwanted actions from HQ. It will also be a basic self-destruct to the server. So take the time to read my post and discuss your opinions on the subject, please do NOT go out of topic and do not insult anyone. Cheers.

I personally would like to say that I understand both sides' point of views respectively and I have come up with a solution which is a possible win-win or a halfwin-halfwin, depends on how you see it and depends on how both groups see it.

I have just spoken with Leon and we have just had an hour conversation which we're suppose to continue tomorrow, but I'd like your opinion on it, Devin, and also the server's and both sides that are usually involved. I've spoken about it with Leon before I even told FLA about it. Basically my idea is this: What if we give it some sort of a one-month trial independence and see how we move on from there? I am speaking about Angel Pine, giving Angel Pine independence. One of FLA's Leadership basically told me its nonsense because its just a small town, and even JUST Angel Pine is nearly impossible to give independence because I'm definite that the SAPD doesn't want to be limited on their jurisdiction. But for example, building up a company, you have to start small from somewhere and build your way to the top, and not just start balling from the beginning. If Angel Pine is given a one-month trial as independence, those who continuously ask for it will have that small chance to prove themselves.

IF they fail to do so, HQ will end the experiment/project, whatever you want to call it, and tell FLA to stop asking for independence because they've given them a chance, and they failed to prove themselves. If they succeeded, leave it for a longer period of time and see how it progresses, if it fucks up along the way, see what can be fixed. If it cannot, simply once again just abandon the project. Maybe if a lot of succession is done, it can later on go on to other parts of Flint.

On the other hand, might proposal might have some backlash due to Law Enforcements was jurisdiction everywhere, and they might claim what will happen if a criminal goes to your independent place with different laws? Considering the laws that were broken are on the other side, you will contact the appointed embassies of Angel Pine and find a solution, they might either give you the jurisdiction for a temporary time to capture the suspect, or they send their own forces. If they fail to do so, screw it, just leave it be and call it a day. OR maybe, set up a form of an agreement with some people and set up some of your actual people who would like to RP as cops in Angel Pine as I'm sure no one from FLA would like to be a cop. In order to ensure that the criminals do not enter their boarder, defend the boarder like you were doing at Flint's Bridge, and this goes for both groups.

As Leon has previously mentioned to me privately, why not just roleplay it? And we all know how that went for Argonath for these past years with the mentality of "RP IT", it held back Argonath a lot and a lot of great players were lost of it because some things need to be official, some things need to be visualized. If some of you continue to keep saying "just rp it", why don't you RP the /wear and other objects as well?

This is a sort of win-win situation because Angel Pine will have its own government, its own constitution, its own groups and so on and basically it they'll get their independence which they've been continuously asking for. On the other hand, it will stop SAPD from being forced to join in the shootouts, and will no longer have to be on the look out for FLA. My proposal will help both sides, a lot, and it should be a solution to fixing these constant arguments and mass shootouts that are continuously made. A lot of more possible roleplay will be able to be done due to forcing both sides interacting together in order to help each other and not be enemies.

I assure you that if this isn't given at least a try, come up with a better solution. If you are against with anything that I have mentioned, state it and maybe I can try and find a solution myself. If this doesn't go on, either more chaos will be created In-Game, more fighting, more arguments which will lead to people leaving or HQ to step in and demolish FLA, which will still then get everyone who supports FLA to riot and either end up leaving or cause more chaos with HQ. A solution has to be found, tomorrow if not today, but it has to be found ASAP.

EDIT: Poll has been added.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Mikal on May 29, 2016, 01:27:38 am
Nice topic, but it isn't really needed, we will take whats ours and nobody can stop us. :cowboy:

Though official independence would be lovely!
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Gnb_22 on May 29, 2016, 01:41:30 am
I suggest giving a reason after you vote...
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Matthew_Green on May 29, 2016, 01:46:50 am
Trying to be neutral-sided here, but I think the whole "1-month Trial" should happen. It should hopefully end all of the roadblocks at the toll plazas that everyone *loves* and all of the "DM-fest" moaning everyone does in /p whenever FBI and SAPD does an operation in Angel Pine. However, that's just a theory. It'll become an experiment should the Trial occur.


However this has me thinking, with the whole "1-month Trial" in progress would the server resemble the early years of the server? (It's in the archives somewhere...) Where instead of just one large government, it's just 2 different governments (or back then 3).
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Chase on May 29, 2016, 01:54:13 am
I would prefer such a vote be done in a roleplay manner in game as a referendum. If enough votes pass, I think the court should allow them to secede from the United States of Argonath and form their own government. If not enough votes pass, the only way to solve this in my opinion from then on is to make a armistice or cease fire agreement as I said previously.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Salmonella on May 29, 2016, 01:58:06 am
I would prefer such a vote be done in a roleplay manner in game as a referendum. If enough votes pass, I think the court should allow them to secede from the United States of Argonath and form their own government. If not enough votes pass, the only way to solve this in my opinion from then on is to make a armistice or cease fire agreement as I said previously.

I guess this vote is to enable the roleplay vote you speak of, though.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Leonardo on May 29, 2016, 04:43:36 am
I agree with Chase. Elaborate a referendum with all the reasons you propose for Flint County to be an independent area, your projects for Flint County (considering you wanna gather signatures, it is your job to convince the public opinion to do it, it's just as politics) and get enough signatures to get the attention of the government, whom upon review of the document, may declare FC as independent with (or without) stipulated measures (under certain conditions), considering the opinion of it's own citizens regarding the matter.

As the FLA's territory still legally belongs to the government of the United States of Argonath, it is clear that the law must protect the entire territory, and that includes Flint County as well. As i can say i was glad that the massive shootouts kinda of stopped these last days and i even had some great roleplay interferences with some of their members a few times, we COULD achieve a result that pleases mutually.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 08:01:46 am
What did you do to deserve independence? daily deathmatch and warfare simulator? continuously coming to Los Santos when cops go in ignore mode to gain their attention more? put barriers at random places in flint county and brandish RPGs and other weapons? going into "ban me" mode whenever you lose in a situation and get arrested? having members who give you information via /gm while cuffed and frisked?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 29, 2016, 08:13:10 am

Weren't you complaining a month ago how nobody wants to roleplay with cops or FBI? Here, a group of people to roleplay with but no; let's not give them a way to roleplay, let's march in like an army every time we see them. This is your time to form an actual FBI investigation to prove how FLA are terrorists or whatever, here is your chance laid out in front of you on a silver plate and you are complaining about it.

What have they done to deserve their independence? As far as I am aware Flint is the only state in SA with an active EMS, FD (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116568.0), church (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116644.0) and army who actively participate in the server and actually roleplay.

I would love to see this work out instead of killing it before we have a chance to see what will come out of it.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 08:21:58 am
Weren't you complaining a month ago how nobody wants to roleplay with cops or FBI?
That's true, exactly what I say, when you get arrested it turns into an admin situation in which - "ban me cuz i wont go anywhere fuck dis shit im gonna leave dis server now"

Here, a group of people to roleplay with but no; let's not give them a way to roleplay,
Roleplay by using guns all the times? Arma IV, inspired by Argonath?

let's march in like an army every time we see them.
That's what happens when you have an armed militia requesting independence like this, do you see your country letting a militia walk on your streets, put junk around to block it and aim RPGs around?

This is your time to form an actual FBI investigation to prove how FLA are terrorists or whatever, here is your chance laid out in front of you on a silver plate and you are complaining about it.
We had many and many people in FLA, they just get bored themselves in there and don't feel like being int it for long since it's just what I said it is - Arma IV and warfare simulator.
Besides, only Gandalf would do good in court in this case, and he's hard to reach.

What have they done to deserve their independence? As far as I am aware Flint is the only state in SA with an active EMS, FD (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116568.0), church (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116644.0) and army who actively participate in the server and actually roleplay.
Sorry but I find those new gangs that roleplay without requesting a shootout with cops in every darn situation much more deserving of a reward than those who need weapons or RPGs in every scene.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 08:27:29 am
What did you do to deserve independence? daily deathmatch and warfare simulator? continuously coming to Los Santos when cops go in ignore mode to gain their attention more? put barriers at random places in flint county and brandish RPGs and other weapons? going into "ban me" mode whenever you lose in a situation and get arrested? having members who give you information via /gm while cuffed and frisked?

Spot on.. I really don't see why FLA is really regarded as that much of a big deal roleplay group. I used to support their idea at first, but now when they gain solid ground and recognition, all they seem to do is find a cop to pick on so they can provoke a shootout or any other gunplay scenario. It has indeed come to a point where cops just ignore them.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 29, 2016, 08:35:39 am

I'm not saying you are wrong, I just wish to see where this goes, hell, why not, we can always fall back on admins to fix our mess at the end.  :lol:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Spike. on May 29, 2016, 08:37:18 am
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-1qju6V1jLM/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Bruce. on May 29, 2016, 08:38:53 am
To be honest I myself was planning on 1st of June to go in Angel Pine and talk with Mikal and Hubbe about some kind of truce between both groups. I had almost everything ready. I was gonna go solo as a SAPD Sergeant and unarmed to gain their trust. But with the shit that happened yesterday? I'm gonna end up sliced in parts now and then mailed to Drix on a box :P.  And I believe that if we would have agreed to that FLA would have been taking a good step towards their demands to have a independent country.
Anyway, about the trial time. I guess it's doable but yet there's up to HQ to decide. About the voting, oh please... everyone in this community how voting goes around... specially on this kind of situation. You get all your friends to go and vote yes and tada ... you won the voting stage.
On the other hand, might proposal might have some backlash due to Law Enforcements was jurisdiction everywhere, and they might claim what will happen if a criminal goes to your independent place with different laws? Considering the laws that were broken are on the other side, you will contact the appointed embassies of Angel Pine and find a solution, they might either give you the jurisdiction for a temporary time to capture the suspect, or they send their own forces. If they fail to do so, screw it, just leave it be and call it a day. OR maybe, set up a form of an agreement with some people and set up some of your actual people who would like to RP as cops in Angel Pine as I'm sure no one from FLA would like to be a cop. In order to ensure that the criminals do not enter their boarder, defend the boarder like you were doing at Flint's Bridge, and this goes for both groups.
I seriously would gladly do that only if I will have assurance that I will not be kidnapped, robbed, or end up hanged in the middle of Angel Pine by any FLA member cause I know the "grudge" they got on cops at the moment.
p.s. Expect people saying that I am a corrupted cop again.

On the other side people are taking this waaaay too personal. Guys, It's just a fucking game... we're all here to have fun and enjoy the gameplay... don't take everything personal...  like JDC would have said. [RPit]. ;)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Mark_DeCaval on May 29, 2016, 08:50:53 am
Give them indepedence.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Vaeldious on May 29, 2016, 08:58:44 am
I seriously would gladly do that only if I will have assurance that I will not be kidnapped, robbed, or end up hanged in the middle of Angel Pine by any FLA member cause I know the "grudge" they got on cops at the moment.
Bruce, I have no grievances against you however I'll point out that such assurances are out of bounds, no matter the circumstance. Its a fine line between manipulating things to your advantage and powergaming for the win (or loss, in this case).

On the other side people are taking this waaaay too personal. Guys, It's just a fucking game... we're all here to have fun and enjoy the gameplay... don't take everything personal...  like JDC would have said. [RPit]. ;)

Agreed, but again and conversely, FLA vs SAPD has FORCED me to come up with some really unique RPs that without this escalation between factions would never have crossed my mind. Silver lining, brothers. Always there.

You are gorram right I voted yes to independence. Not because I have friends in FLA. Not because I have friends in FBI. But because this is EXACTLY the kind of random variable that was never expected, nor predicted; yet is. Within the Oculus, Rara Avis (eye of the rare bird) are the seeds of RS6. RS7. And 7.1, but we can forget about RS7.2. That shit's gonna suck like a donkey show.

A game over a decade old, yet here we remain. Legends of years past come and go....yet we remain.

Gonna play the 'Merica card here cuz i liek mudkipz and dbl cheezburgers.

'merica gained independence. Let's trial Flint. And if you don't have any perspective of why....you should probably read what I chose as my sig. FLA is a n00b compared to server groups and standards like CM and Gvardia, yet has amassed more server activity (for the better, most of the time) than any other currently active group.

(cause im from the future, ill address this now)
I will tell you what, no president will ever want to give up a part of their country. The final yes is on Gandalf.
@Gandalf
Roleplay > scripts, every time. Even the presidential position is scripted and debatable according to RP, and thats the beauty in the creation; is that it is not yours, but others to enjoy, mold, and destroy as they see fit. Even in its reduced form of /em S/F?, still the greatest mentality I've ever encountered online is here in Argo, and I think thats what the Mighty Swedes were trying to accomplish originally. The VALIDATION may come from Gandalf, but not the permission. Permission has already been expressed for about 10 years on this specific server. Give or take about 5 years.

But i've been wrong before, and who knows....maybe they were just banevaders.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: CharlieKasper on May 29, 2016, 09:06:10 am
I will tell you what, no president will ever want to give up a part of their country. The final yes is on Gandalf.

So I propose that instead of making it an independent country, make it another state of United States of Argonath. New Government, new city hall and court, new police department, and operate the same way IV:MP, VC:MP and SA:MP does. Nothing is connected (except that the lands are connected and people can easily go through and of course, money too).

San Andreas Court, SAPD, SA FBI, SA Mayors, SA Govt, none of them will have jurisdiction there and therefore a new police department (APPD), a new mayor, a new govt, a new city hall and court will be made. That way FLA gets a form of independence and it still says a part of USA. c):-)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Gnb_22 on May 29, 2016, 09:26:01 am
Provocative comment removed - Andeey
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Vaeldious on May 29, 2016, 09:30:53 am
Man don't you guys just love Matthew Carter. The best guy on the server I fucking swear. The biggest hypocrite that derails every constructive topic into provoking between criminals and cops. Gotta love that guy.
Then perhaps a peek through the looking glass is warranted.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 09:34:52 am
You always jump into a topic and start claiming few people derail a "constructive topic" into provoking, yet you come into the topic like a wrecking ball just throwing random hostile insults and provocations on the person itself. I don't see that as something constructive eh? if you love topics being constructive why aren't you constructive yourself? that's hypocrite I say.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: TiMoN on May 29, 2016, 09:39:27 am
I just want to patrol FC in a Mesa without Air Force One chasing me.
Is that too much to ask?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Vaeldious on May 29, 2016, 09:40:13 am
You always jump into a topic and start claiming few people derail a "constructive topic" into provoking, yet you come into the topic like a wrecking ball just throwing random hostile insults and provocations on the person itself. I don't see that as something constructive eh? if you love topics being constructive why aren't you constructive yourself? that's hypocrite I say.
I'd say I'm the one that called you out, @.Matthew. , not Tevin.
I am open to discussion for a better Argonath for all players, Cop, Criminal and Civilian.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 09:40:38 am
Man don't you guys just love Matthew Carter. The best guy on the server I fucking swear. The biggest hypocrite that derails every constructive topic into provoking between criminals and cops. Gotta love that guy.

Man, no offense, but YOU are the one to talk? Really?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 29, 2016, 09:43:35 am
I just want to patrol FC in a Mesa without Air Force One chasing me.
Is that too much to ask?
That's the RS4 non rp mentality we are striving to abandon TiMoN, didn't you get the memo?

Man, no offense, but YOU are the one to talk? Really?
Let's not go pointing fingers for the eight god damn topic this week.

Ramo started a discussion about a specific idea, why don't we discuss it?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Vaeldious on May 29, 2016, 09:45:28 am
I just want to patrol FC in a Mesa without Air Force One chasing me.
Is that too much to ask?

No more than Air Force Ones' right to patrol FC as well.

Man, no offense, but YOU are the one to talk? Really?

Man, no offense, but can we keep this dialog civil and constructive instead of slinging shit?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 09:53:06 am
RIGGED.

I would rather like to see the FLA leadership and SAPD "negociate". I'm not expecting a 1 on 1 meeting, that would be bad obviously. But a poll on the forums won't give you guys independence, #Argonath. I hold no grudges with FLA or anything alike, actually I'm supplying you guys, but having an independent country will rather create a shitstorm. And won't take a while till someone forms an army and makes another war. What about two seperate constitutions, two boards on the forums and so on? It will be a lot of confusion, tbh.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 29, 2016, 09:58:58 am
As far as I know FLA takes better care about their citizens than ARPD does.

What about two seperate constitutions, two boards on the forums and so on? It will be a lot of confusion, tbh.
A subforum? fla.argonathrpg.com? just like arpd.argonathrpg.com?

But I like Charlie's idea better


San Andreas Court, SAPD, SA FBI, SA Mayors, SA Govt, none of them will have jurisdiction there and therefore a new police department (APPD), a new mayor, a new govt, a new city hall and court will be made. That way FLA gets a form of independence and it still says a part of USA. c):-)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: [Rstar]Peter on May 29, 2016, 10:12:41 am
Let us know where and how did you guys burn your fingers, used black magic to destroy your DNA and bought tons of glue to stick your masks.. We need to copy your methods too apparently!
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 10:18:04 am
Let us know where and how did you guys burn your fingers, used black magic to destroy your DNA and bought tons of glue to stick your masks.. We need to copy your methods too apparently!
That's beside the point because it's roleplay.

Quote
San Andreas Court, SAPD, SA FBI, SA Mayors, SA Govt, none of them will have jurisdiction there and therefore a new police department (APPD)
Either way, your requests are illogical because FBI is a FEDERAL agency and it operates in any state that is within United States of Argonath. And also ARPD exists as SAPD for SA:MP because ARPD is divided into divisions: LCPD, VCPD, SAPD and so on. What you're asking for is a federal police force, and you'll get nothing more but another copy of SAPD. Your sole issues are the existence of Law Enforcement and their job of punishing you for illegal acts, the only way to solve your issues is to remove Law Enforcing groups.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: eymas on May 29, 2016, 10:24:47 am
I would rather like to see the FLA leadership and SAPD "negociate". I'm not expecting a 1 on 1 meeting, that would be bad obviously.
And both SAPD/FBI leadership + FLA are free to draw me into a meeting if they like.

Just do remain aware that I did try to aim for a solution, and we narrowed it down. But I gave up in the end, just like Teddy: I failed.
There's no room for an answer which is not one-sided, and that doesn't lead to further poisoning of the atmosphere towards the other four (out of five) halves of the population. And leaving this all behind is impossible either, as the community retains their position in this (seemingly never ending) cycle when the possibilities of escape already exist.

I'd much prefer we close this book and continue with another.* Maybe add in a cup of tea.

* Read the second paragraph why.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 29, 2016, 10:26:41 am
This whole situation just reminded me of a similar scenario in RS4..

Remember when we did some jail RP when a  whole bunch of people went to Mordor and NBA took it over and for the next week they basically had control of Mordor?

Did that happen or was it a fever nightmare?

I forget how that ended but I'm pretty sure someone got banned, I swear this happened. It was like a Public Mission.


the only way to solve your issues is to remove Law Enforcing groups.
You are talking about issues and problems and how we want to eradicate law enforcments.. no dude, just continue the roleplay, nobody wants to remove anything, we just want to have fun. roleplaying. on a roleplay server. expressing our imagination.

Nobody is trying to argue against you, we just want to further this roleplay.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Gnb_22 on May 29, 2016, 10:27:41 am
You always jump into a topic and start claiming few people derail a "constructive topic" into provoking, yet you come into the topic like a wrecking ball just throwing random hostile insults and provocations on the person itself. I don't see that as something constructive eh? if you love topics being constructive why aren't you constructive yourself? that's hypocrite I say.

I just point out the flaws of others, some find my approach offensive. Well the truth often offends. As for being contructive, I've been instrumental in giving my opinion on several issues in the past and continue to do so which has and will continue to benifit the community.

Let us know where and how did you guys burn your fingers, used black magic to destroy your DNA and bought tons of glue to stick your masks.. We need to copy your methods too apparently!

How about you quit with the provocation and post something useful.



Now back on topic, The FLA role play is something different and I totally understand that not everyone understands or get the idea behind it. At least these people are putting effort into role playing something an actually giving you guys the oppertunity to be apart of it. As for the independance thing, I'm not too sure how it will work the entire thing seems like it would need far too much effort and dedication to maintain. I personally believe FLA has to show that it has longevity and is commited for them to be given this kind of support. Its only been six months to be brutally honest and there was atleast a 1-2 month period where you guys have disappeared to be totaly fair. I'm not against the idea, I just don't think official independance is a thing you guys should get right now. Doesnt stop you from role playing or continue doing what you're currently doing.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 10:30:13 am
I'd much prefer we close this book and continue with another
That'd be beautiful.

we just want to have fun. roleplaying. on a roleplay server. expressing our imagination.
I want that as well, but then there's this thing where in Argonath people are immortal, untouchable and don't roleplay fear at all.


Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: CharlieKasper on May 29, 2016, 10:30:54 am
Either way, your requests are illogical because FBI is a FEDERAL agency and it operates in any state that is within United States of Argonath. And also ARPD exists as SAPD for SA:MP because ARPD is divided into divisions: LCPD, VCPD, SAPD and so on. What you're asking for is a federal police force, and you'll get nothing more but another copy of SAPD. Your sole issues are the existence of Law Enforcement and their job of punishing you for illegal acts, the only way to solve your issues is to remove Law Enforcing groups.
Oh, I have a different view all right. FLA wants to become an independent country, I think an independent state would be better.. The problem is not the existence of a law enforce agency. A state without a police force will be an absolute mess, if it happens to become a separate state, it won't be run by an army like it is now. A police force and government is definitely needed to run a state properly.

And that is why I suggested it to be a different state with new constitution, new government, new city hall, new law enforcers, new mayors.

And about your point on FBI, I would first like to see ALL VC:MP and IV:MP FBI members immediately getting FBI rights on SA:MP before FBI claims jurisdiction in flint county and Whetstone.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 10:34:58 am
And about your point on FBI, I would first like to see ALL VC:MP and IV:MP FBI members immediately getting FBI rights on SA:MP before FBI claims jurisdiction in flint county and Whetstone.
Imagine the FBI in each server as a field office of the FBI, while the SA:MP one is the HQ - Washington DC, J. Edgar Hover.
Those who are in IV:MP are in Liberty City and are FBI Agents there.
Those who are in VC:MP are in Vice City and are FBI Agents there.
Those who are in SA:MP are in San Andreas and are FBI Agents there.

One can be an FBI Agent in both with no problem if they decide to play their character the same way in both servers.
The only issue is non-roleplay related and it's if the person has enough time to dedicate to play two servers for enough time.

However, if person decides to be a criminal in SA:MP and an Agent in VC:MP, obviously it's their choice and they can't be an FBI Agent as a criminal.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Bruce. on May 29, 2016, 10:46:15 am
San Andreas Court, SAPD, SA FBI, SA Mayors, SA Govt, none of them will have jurisdiction there and therefore a new police department (APPD), a new mayor, a new govt, a new city hall and court will be made. That way FLA gets a form of independence and it still says a part of USA. c):-)
Why not a news RP server as well? FLA RPG? Yes?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 11:03:07 am
Why not a news RP server as well? FLA RPG? Yes?
Fucking hell that's a great idea actually, make it based only on Flint Country and let them run it however they want, we'll have fun in main one with gangs and good ol' mafias.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Sweeper on May 29, 2016, 11:29:52 am
Current law enforcement staff is either too in-active or incapable to bring this to an end. This could have been solved three weeks ago.

We've had several of these useless polarizing topics in the past weeks, where the entire community gets involved, where leaders of both groups are whining; without any outcome.

Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 11:32:22 am
Off topic / Provocative post removed

Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: McGarrett on May 29, 2016, 01:17:07 pm
Why do you think SAPD is no longer divided by the 4 sub departments; LSPD, LVPD, SFPD and DPD? It's because the playerbase drastically decreased and the policing community got divided, making it impossible for all other departments than LSPD in the long run. And FLA want to claim independence over Flint County and divide the server more? This is the perfect example of what Argonath doesn't need.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Kaze on May 29, 2016, 01:23:00 pm
Such a shame this issue is still going on. Grow a pair of balls and let FLA get their independence. Every fucking day you see these mafia groups opening and it gets too repetitive. FLA is defo one of the best additions to RS5.2 yet and you want to take them down.

Please don't make me open an Aryan brotherhood because I'll make your life a living hell.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ramo_Hawk on May 29, 2016, 01:53:48 pm
This whole situation just reminded me of a similar scenario in RS4..

Remember when we did some jail RP when a  whole bunch of people went to Mordor and NBA took it over and for the next week they basically had control of Mordor?

Did that happen or was it a fever nightmare?

I forget how that ended but I'm pretty sure someone got banned, I swear this happened. It was like a Public Mission.
Yes, I was the one banned, but that's all in the past.

Please don't make me open an Aryan brotherhood because I'll make your life a living hell.
:lol:

Anyway, about the trial time. I guess it's doable but yet there's up to HQ to decide. About the voting, oh please... everyone in this community how voting goes around... specially on this kind of situation. You get all your friends to go and vote yes and tada ... you won the voting stage. I seriously would gladly do that only if I will have assurance that I will not be kidnapped, robbed, or end up hanged in the middle of Angel Pine by any FLA member cause I know the "grudge" they got on cops at the moment.
p.s. Expect people saying that I am a corrupted cop again.
These votes aren't an actual voting, its just to see where we stand. Its to see how the server views it. The actual decision is always from above, from HQ. And regarding you as being a cop in Angel Pine, I assume once they succeed in getting their independence and if they go along and open up APPD, I'm sure you can. If they'll call you corrupt, just let them be as long as you aren't.

I would rather like to see the FLA leadership and SAPD "negociate". I'm not expecting a 1 on 1 meeting, that would be bad obviously.
I can try and make the meeting happen, hopefully. Something has to be done imo, and a conclusion has to be made eventually by HQ.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Bruce. on May 29, 2016, 02:04:28 pm
Current law enforcement staff is either too in-active or incapable to bring this to an end. This could have been solved three weeks ago.
Please tell us how can we solve this. Since it could be solved three weeks ago.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Mikal on May 29, 2016, 02:10:26 pm
Why not a new RP server as well? FLA RPG? Yes?
If you want to reduce SA:MP Argonath's player count that much then sure! :)

Fucking hell that's a great idea actually, make it based only on Flint Country and let them run it however they want, we'll have fun in main one with gangs and good ol' mafias.
Oh right, you want to get back to the same ol' mafias which you always beat and win every time.

I guess some people just don't like that FLA is so strong, most of the time it's bigger than law enforcement, most of the time it can't be challenged, I love that. :lol:

And FLA want to claim independence over Flint County and divide the server more? This is the perfect example of what Argonath doesn't need.
Since your police player base is so small now perhaps independence would do you guys a favour, you'd have less area to police, good yes?

Please don't make me open an Aryan brotherhood because I'll make your life a living hell.
Pls, no more unique groups, you've seen the shit storm 1 has caused... They want the same ol' mafias.

Please tell us how can we solve this. Since it could be solved three weeks ago.
Independence?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 02:12:35 pm
I guess some people just don't like that FLA is so strong, most of the time it's bigger than law enforcement, most of the time it can't be challenged, I love that. :lol:
*gets arrested*
"Ban me."
"I'm not going anywhere."
"I'm not even gonna come back after this."

 :hah:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: AK47 on May 29, 2016, 02:19:15 pm
*gets arrested*
"Ban me."
"I'm not going anywhere."
"I'm not even gonna come back after this."

 :hah:

Can you just stop with your nonsense please? The only thing you do here and ingame are to start shitstorms and provoking. Got nothing of value to say? Shut the fuck up.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 02:25:11 pm
Can you just stop with your nonsense please? The only thing you do here and ingame are to start shitstorms and provoking. Got nothing of value to say? Shut the fuck up.
What I stated was a fact that happened multiple times and witnessed by few admins as well, one being Marcel.
The only thing you do here with this post is misrepresent the admin team by showing hostile attitude and aggressive behavior which should not be acceptable.
Such short temper gets no good in the job of an admin who needs patience and mature approach to resolve various situations and guide players the correct way.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on May 29, 2016, 02:26:28 pm
Well, the thing I am afraid, if we give FLA independence, maybe it will inspire some mafias, or someone to create a new group, to get independence for Bone County,LV,SF,LS? And after all that territory lost, ARPD would have no use, we would just need LSPD, but I doubt that LS would not be independent too.

MY IDEA:

If you asked me, I would rather give them full independence, but under one condition: The FLA should ABSOLUTELY,NEVER EVER,go around USA Gov's bussiness.

They can create anything they want inside their own country, but absolutely no mixing into USA Gov's work. THAT is what I would like.


OR:

I will tell you what, no president will ever want to give up a part of their country. The final yes is on Gandalf.

So I propose that instead of making it an independent country, make it another state of United States of Argonath. New Government, new city hall and court, new police department, and operate the same way IV:MP, VC:MP and SA:MP does. Nothing is connected (except that the lands are connected and people can easily go through and of course, money too).

San Andreas Court, SAPD, SA FBI, SA Mayors, SA Govt, none of them will have jurisdiction there and therefore a new police department (APPD), a new mayor, a new govt, a new city hall and court will be made. That way FLA gets a form of independence and it still says a part of USA. c):-)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: AK47 on May 29, 2016, 02:28:17 pm
What I stated was a fact that happened multiple times and witnessed by few admins as well, one being Marcel.
The only thing you do here with this post is misrepresent the admin team by showing hostile attitude and aggressive behavior which should not be acceptable.
Such short temper gets no good in the job of an admin who needs patience and mature approach to resolve various situations and guide players the correct way.

I guess I'm just one of them being tired of this childish shit being showed by both sides. And you as Division Leader over FBI should do the same then, no?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 02:38:33 pm
I'm tired of it too, and all of my members are tired of it as well, and I as their leader protect the interests of my members. And I don't tell people to "shut the fuck up", so I think I'm not doing so bad. But hey, I don't fully blame you, Argonath does pretty well at running people's nerves to state of rot quickly.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Mikal on May 29, 2016, 02:41:10 pm
*gets arrested*
"Ban me."
"I'm not going anywhere."
"I'm not even gonna come back after this."

 :hah:
I'd love to see the chat logs of whoever said this... :lol:

Well, the thing I am afraid, if we give FLA independence
Independence is not for you to give, it is for us to take, unless HQ want to make things move quicker and smoother with less blood being spilled. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on May 29, 2016, 02:46:09 pm
You can't take the independence from us Mikal, learn that, law enforcement is persistent and loyal, we will fight to the death, respawn after respawn, you shall never get that independence until we all agree or by the order of our Great President Gandalf.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Norrage on May 29, 2016, 02:47:42 pm
What I stated was a fact that happened multiple times and witnessed by few admins as well, one being Marcel.
The only thing you do here with this post is misrepresent the admin team by showing hostile attitude and aggressive behavior which should not be acceptable.
Such short temper gets no good in the job of an admin who needs patience and mature approach to resolve various situations and guide players the correct way.

Just a quick offtopic part here, not ment to offend or anything.

Why do I have the feeling you are trying to ruin everyones career / position in SA:MP? Just because you are a 'high' person in FBI doesn't mean you have the right to offend like almost everyone with your 'facts' and pretending as a 'leader'. I constantly see you provoking people with your swear words like its nothing, near the edge of insulting anyone that comes in your path. Sorry but I just had to state this out.



Ontopic:
Give FLA a trial. If they cant comply normally as a independent state just roll eveyrthing back and will stay a DM fest.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 02:53:45 pm
Why do I have the feeling you are trying to ruin everyones career / position in SA:MP? Just because you are a 'high' person in FBI doesn't mean you have the right to offend like almost everyone with your 'facts' and pretending as a 'leader'. I constantly see you provoking people with your swear words like its nothing, near the edge of insulting anyone that comes in your path. Sorry but I just had to state this out.
Just because I denied you from FBI because you were behaving like a troll on streets doesn't mean I ruin everyone's career. You can quote wherever I used a swear word and insulted somebody. Those who are ruined by FBI are those who don't abide by the law, and it's the job.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Gnb_22 on May 29, 2016, 03:09:19 pm
Just because I denied you from FBI because you were behaving like a troll on streets doesn't mean I ruin everyone's career. You can quote wherever I used a swear word and insulted somebody. Those who are ruined by FBI are those who don't abide by the law, and it's the job.

Why can't you take criticism without being a douche bag and throwing provocations all the time ?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: CharlieKasper on May 29, 2016, 03:19:41 pm
Why not a news RP server as well? FLA RPG? Yes?
You should get your head out of your ass since that 40 playerbase will shrink to less than half of it if the members of FLA stop playing on the main server.

Consider this a sarcastic reply to your sarcastic reply.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: TrotlDebilni on May 29, 2016, 03:24:00 pm
You can't take the independence from us Mikal, learn that, law enforcement is persistent and loyal
What are you on about? You aren't Gandalf's mafia, your job is to serve and protect the people, do what is best to keep people alive. Law enforcers are supposed to be open minded and enter every situation with the civilians in mind.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on May 29, 2016, 04:08:52 pm
I have had ENOUGH of this.

FLA deserves independence. They are caring about their country and citizens. They are successfully controlling the borders and are successfully doing their patrols and other things.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Norrage on May 29, 2016, 04:10:41 pm
Just because I denied you from FBI because you were behaving like a troll on streets doesn't mean I ruin everyone's career. You can quote wherever I used a swear word and insulted somebody. Those who are ruined by FBI are those who don't abide by the law, and it's the job.

Denying me from FBI, in this year, has nothing to do with the point I just stated out. A too strict FBI, like now with a so called 'leader' as you in it now makes it too strict, nobody enjoys serving. I can say this with confidence because I had contact with anonymous persons stating out the same, together with my past experience serving in the FBI. And: 'Those who are ruined by FBI are those who don't abide by the law, and it's the job.' is also total bullshit according to my point.

Sorry for the offtopic once again. Won't continue the argue / discussion for the sake of the problem / topic.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Teddy on May 29, 2016, 04:16:08 pm
(http://i.giphy.com/3o7abu6MhmCNxqUT4I.gif)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 04:18:49 pm
Argonath does pretty well at running people's nerves to state of rot quickly.

Only if you have nothing better to worry about in real life than some video game..  :bananav:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 04:19:47 pm
You know shit is fucked when you have less worries in real life than in here XD
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 04:20:59 pm
You know shit is fucked when you have less worries in real life than in here XD

Don't let it get to you man  :hah:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 04:32:38 pm
(http://i.giphy.com/3o7abu6MhmCNxqUT4I.gif)
I'd be careful posting popcorn 'cause they are off-topic, and some people get butthurt when you post popcorns.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Teddy on May 29, 2016, 04:33:44 pm
I'd be careful posting popcorn 'cause they are off-topic, and some people get butthurt when you post popcorns.

and some people don't care when people get butthurt because they're always butthurt and nothing will change it. Argonath needs a tampon at this point.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 04:34:50 pm
and some people don't care when people get butthurt because they're always butthurt and nothing will change it. Argonath needs a tampon at this point.
I don't care either but some ugly moderator and butthurt people don't like it. Might get your post removed.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Teddy on May 29, 2016, 04:35:32 pm
I don't care either but some ugly moderator and butthurt people don't like it. Might get your post removed.
a moderator might get removed then :lol:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 04:46:08 pm
a moderator might get removed then :lol:
hello my name stivi, i'll be your helper today - first give me webmaster rights.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on May 29, 2016, 04:56:20 pm
You know, we had a great victory over FLA today, but we can't have it everyday, so I still suggest to give them independence.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on May 29, 2016, 04:59:50 pm
Lol Stivi, you are going against Teddy? Wow, I can't believe that you are so brave to come up to big authority.

And I can't believe how brave you are with the threats of yours towards someone who works very hard for us.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Marcell on May 29, 2016, 05:07:29 pm
Guess we're returning to point of TDM shootouts then, 3rd time you send that lapdog of yours to tresspass with zero roleplay on purpose, we ignored him two times in the past, tried roleplaying and he ends up pressing an invisible waterproof button in his ass, turning a scenario into mass shootout. I think the term 'criminal baiting' fits right in here. Also funny how when you're outnumbered you leave us alone, pretending 'we're leaving you alone cause we don't want a shootout' while once you get numbers up it's the first thing you're trying to achieve. Good going.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 05:24:26 pm
Lol Stivi, you are going against Teddy? Wow, I can't believe that you are so brave to come up to big authority.

And I can't believe how brave you are with the threats of yours towards someone who works very hard for us.
I'm sorry, but... What the fuck.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Pizza4_Games on May 29, 2016, 05:36:59 pm
lol is this really happening? no please
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 05:38:39 pm
I'm sorry, but... What the fuck.

That moment when somebody tries to be a smartass but embarasses himself and makes a complete clown out of himself. Good job Ivan  :hah:

Guess we're returning to point of TDM shootouts then, 3rd time you send that lapdog of yours to tresspass with zero roleplay on purpose, we ignored him two times in the past, tried roleplaying and he ends up pressing an invisible waterproof button in his ass, turning a scenario into mass shootout. I think the term 'criminal baiting' fits right in here. Also funny how when you're outnumbered you leave us alone, pretending 'we're leaving you alone cause we don't want a shootout' while once you get numbers up it's the first thing you're trying to achieve. Good going.

I just wish to remind you that you are roleplaying a militia group that has unlawfully claimed a part of a sovereign territory and does not recognize the sovereign authority in the region and keeps deporting (or killing of not complied with) cops that come to Flint County. I don't think the term "criminal baiting" can be applied here. Thank God I have no government authority in Argonath otherwise I'd have hydras and hunters bombing the shit out of Angel Pine and have an all out war by arming anyone who wants to "fight the seperatists"  :war: :rofl:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Pizza4_Games on May 29, 2016, 05:41:23 pm

FLA deserves independence. They are caring about their country and citizens. They are successfully controlling the borders and are successfully doing their patrols and other things.
I hope you're joking by the way.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 05:43:20 pm
That moment when somebody tries to be a smartass but embarasses himself and makes a complete clown out of himself. Good job Ivan  :hah:
I still am no where close to understading the fuck are you both saying. Help me out here.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Teddy on May 29, 2016, 05:44:26 pm
That moment when somebody tries to be a smartass but embarasses himself and makes a complete clown out of himself. Good job Ivan  :hah:

Familiar territory for you.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 06:25:26 pm
Familiar territory for you.

Damn man, your gas bill is gonna hit the fan with all these roasts you're doing..

I still am no where close to understading the fuck are you both saying. Help me out here.

I am a little taken aback it even needs explaining. I'm making fun of Ivan flipping on you for no reason  :rofl:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: AK47 on May 29, 2016, 06:26:08 pm
Can people stop the constant bullshit and actually try to discuss?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: McGarrett on May 29, 2016, 06:26:19 pm
I have had ENOUGH of this.

FLA deserves independence. They are caring about their country and citizens. They are successfully controlling the borders and are successfully doing their patrols and other things.

.. said no one ever.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 06:27:55 pm
Can people stop the constant bullshit and actually try to discuss?

>Puts on a provocative signature.
>"Can we pls stop the constant bullshit arguing pls pls pls"
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: AK47 on May 29, 2016, 06:31:12 pm
>Puts on a provocative signature.
>"Can we pls stop the constant bullshit arguing pls pls pls"

Are you even contributing to this community? No. :)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 29, 2016, 06:32:38 pm
I am a little taken aback it even needs explaining. I'm making fun of Ivan flipping on you for no reason  :rofl:
Yeah well it sounded like you were making fun of me for no actual reason and made a moron out of yourself. Glad that wasn't the case.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 07:09:00 pm
Are you even contributing to this community? No. :)

>Is a leader of an active police group.
>"No, I don't contribute to the community in any way, not at all"

Pardon for my crippled activity, but some people have a life, you know. Such as, you know, graduation exams, work, adult responsibilities and shit. Perhaps some day you'll understand.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: AK47 on May 29, 2016, 07:11:02 pm
Well excuse me for having finished school, having a steady job and a fiancé, but hey, I'm just a nolifer. :)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Salmonella on May 29, 2016, 07:11:44 pm
>Is a leader of an active police group.

Ehhhh...

also thats not how le greentext maymay arrows work
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 07:21:15 pm
Well excuse me for having finished school, having a steady job and a fiancé, but hey, I'm just a nolifer. :)

I guess you are if the concept of taking a break because of RL responsibilities is so foreign to you.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Kek_Topman on May 29, 2016, 07:25:23 pm
long time lurker, first time poster coming from an old veteran

the more I've been reading into this entire "fla" thing the more i found it actually really nice and, lets say, original due to the fact nothing has been done before to this extent

but then I read through this topic

holy fuckety fuck it's such a clusterfuck of mess its like nobody has any idea what he is saying

lets begin with the fact that I have no fucking idea why this entire thing is being discussed OOC, on a samp general board of all things. no, wait, i can understand the fact that it's being discussed OOC on a samp general board, but why is this entire "grant them independence" thing is not done in-game? no proper personal negotiations between leaders etc?

secondly, why noone from the non-FLA (sapd? arpd? government) side formed up national guard and simply did not try and suppress the movement? just gather up around enough amount of people and simply cull anyone who stands in your way, occupy the zone etc.... Just organize a big shootout event where it will be a proper wall on wall fla-sapd, whoever loses has to concede defeat and accept the demands of the winning party.

sapd wins - the entire movement is dissolved and should not come back for at least a year (two, perhaps, because fuck having a lot of similar rebel uprisings on a yearly basis)
fla wins - grant them their well deserved independence

or just negotiate the entire thing

why do you have to do this OOC instead of solving everything within the server? within RP constraints?

if anything, the "finale" should definitely not be agreed on here.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Mikal on May 29, 2016, 07:32:48 pm
I guess you are if the concept of taking a break because of RL responsibilities is so foreign to you.
Do you take a break or do you just sit on the forums all day posting crap? :uhm:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2016, 07:39:42 pm
posting crap? :uhm:
Rich coming from you mate.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Rusty on May 29, 2016, 07:58:24 pm
There has been what maybe three people who put actual suggestions on what FLA could do to try gain independence, Chase provided a excellent suggestion and even the forum lurker above here dropped a great post.  Rest of the five or so pages are full of complete shite, good job guys.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Mikal on May 29, 2016, 08:04:12 pm
I would prefer such a vote be done in a roleplay manner in game as a referendum. If enough votes pass, I think the court should allow them to secede from the United States of Argonath and form their own government. If not enough votes pass, the only way to solve this in my opinion from then on is to make a armistice or cease fire agreement as I said previously.
Read this after seeing Rusty's post as I didn't see it before, lets organise an official vote then...

How would it be regulated though? Only people who live in Flint Country can vote? Everyone can vote? Would it be on the forums with a poll or done in-game some how?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Rusty on May 29, 2016, 08:06:37 pm
Do it in-game, anyone with background in Politics around here am I bet there's more than a few might be able to help or get you started in the right direction.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Devin on May 29, 2016, 08:58:03 pm
Glad to see some taking an initiative when making suggestions. Sadly there are the usual few taking things off topic to create arguments whilst they aren't even active in the community.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: .Matthew. on May 29, 2016, 09:07:02 pm
And when we did this army like task force people started moaning about it  :balance: and now the suggestion is to do basically the same thing... god.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: JDC on May 30, 2016, 02:12:11 am
Argonath needs a tampon at this point.

Basically the last few years. :lol:



Everything up to this point has focused on FLA getting independence, and not so much on what will happen after. Considering how small the landmass is, independence would pose many questions. Here's some of them:

1.) What if a criminal from one territory (read: Flint or the rest of SA) escaped into the other? (Very easy due to the small landmass) Would this require diplomacy / international law, such as extradition and treaties?
2.) What if someone in one territory is in dire need of non-law enforcement emergency services (i.e. medic, fireman) but the only available service personnel are from the other?
3.) What happens when a citizen of one territory becomes a victim of a crime while inside the other territory?
4.) How is border control going to work?
5.) An independent state will require a different economy (i.e. currency, state funds, real estate, etc), or else it is not an independent state. How will a separate economy be implemented for Flint? (I presume both states will use a common currency due to their "shared origins" and for gameplay reasons, however.)

And these are just the ones that are easy to name. It's hard enough to make a state that can get its shit together, let alone two.

One lesson from politics is that it's much easier to criticize the incumbent government and request independence than it is to run an actual functioning government once you're in power.

Argonath is Federal in nature, yes? (United States of Argonath) Why not give Flint a trial run as a separate Federal State under the Federal Government, which would allow for significant autonomy while solving the problems mentioned in the above questions? (Not to mention the would-be Flint State can benefit from Federal resources too.)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Mikal on May 30, 2016, 02:20:27 am
1.) What if a criminal from one territory (read: Flint or the rest of SA) escaped into the other? (Very easy due to the small landmass) Would this require diplomacy / international law, such as extradition and treaties?
2.) What if someone in one territory is in dire need of non-law enforcement emergency services (i.e. medic, fireman) but the only available service personnel are from the other?
3.) What happens when a citizen of one territory becomes a victim of a crime while inside the other territory?
4.) How is border control going to work?
5.) An independent state will require a different economy (i.e. currency, state funds, real estate, etc), or else it is not an independent state. How will a separate economy be implemented for Flint? (I presume both states will use a common currency due to their "shared origins" and for gameplay reasons, however.)

1.) Different places, different laws, if the criminal escapes into the other territory, the forces on one side can contact the other to reequest help, or they can enter themselves and risk breaching the other territories laws, since Flint Country wouldn't allow Argonath law enforcement to operate inside it's territory.

2.) Firemen and medics would be free to move through the borders with no problem, could even map an FD on the Flint Country side if someone wanted to RP a separate FD, there's already a small hospital at Angel Pine.

3.) Both territories would have different laws, one is illegal in Argonath might not be illegal in Flint Country, either way they can contact the usual law enforcement depending on what side they are in, law enforcement on the Flint Country side would of course be the FLA, unless we establish a PD.

5.) We do border control RP alot already, however it isn't strictly needed on a perm basis, everyone would be free to move around except for law enforcement of course who would be barred from operating in Flint Country, and I assume it'd be the same for whatever law enforcement Flint Country would have in Argonath, though I guess both sides could pass through if they are not enforcing laws in each others territories.
 
5.) No need to complicate it that much TBH, money is money and it can just stay that way, though we could RP-it a different currency.
Flint Country Dollar. :janek:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Kek_Topman on May 30, 2016, 05:15:15 am
And when we did this army like task force people started moaning about it  :balance: and now the suggestion is to do basically the same thing... god.

i'm pretty sure i left this post here

so who was moaning about it? fla? breaking news, fbi chief: if you actively try to take someone/something down, they will hate you; just do your (not talking to you directly, to the entire government) job and take them down like stray dogs, or be a coward in front of everyone and submit to their demands and give them their damn independence.

i am not really sure what is there to discuss in this topic.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Sweeper on May 30, 2016, 09:11:30 am
Please tell us how can we solve this. Since it could be solved three weeks ago.

Consultancy has a price, but to help a bit; a kind of municipality could be considered. For those who don't know,  here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality). FLA does not even meet the requirements of being an independent state.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Johan_S on May 30, 2016, 11:06:40 am
Guys simple as this:

(http://i.imgur.com/7wnASMR.gif)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Dennis. on May 30, 2016, 11:10:41 am
epic :D
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Johan_S on May 30, 2016, 11:25:45 am
Guys simple as this:

(http://i.imgur.com/UygdUXw.gif)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Teddy on May 30, 2016, 06:47:07 pm
7 pages later and we've made as much progress as a group of 4 year olds making a castle out of Lego. #BecauseArgonath
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Hevar. on May 30, 2016, 07:12:44 pm
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-1qju6V1jLM/maxresdefault.jpg)

HAAHHAHAHA
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: eymas on May 30, 2016, 07:35:50 pm
7 pages later and we've made as much progress as a group of 4 year olds making a castle out of Lego. #BecauseArgonath
The seven pages in a nutshell  :rolleyes:
(https://d18l82el6cdm1i.cloudfront.net/solvable/4dd5d61b03.7b9a547264.6OVrCk.jpg)
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Stivi on May 30, 2016, 07:39:34 pm
The seven pages in a nutshell  :rolleyes:
(https://d18l82el6cdm1i.cloudfront.net/solvable/4dd5d61b03.7b9a547264.6OVrCk.jpg)
So you're saying this topic was not derailed?
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: eymas on May 30, 2016, 08:05:16 pm
It's not even about the rails  :lol:
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Sawyer on May 30, 2016, 08:29:14 pm
Who can guarantee that the second we give the so called "freedom" and "independence" to Flint, won't all of us be treated as "immigrants" if we pass by? If independence to Flint promotes actual RPing scenarios and not DM fests between Flint and SAPD(and yes, I couldn't care less who actually is DMing who at this point), then sure why not?

I personally think that groups that tend to bring life to Argonath by RPing any day and hour of the week - give them what they seek for. Even if still FLA had its DMing moments 24/7 at some point, I believe they bring some cool RPing vibe when they really want to and they also have a creative background as "liberators" that Argonath hasn't actually seen before.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Arslan on May 31, 2016, 12:03:18 am
This topic can be locked as a peace treaty will be posted shortly.
Title: Re: FLA-SAPD bs - /discuss
Post by: Ivan_Dzeba on June 01, 2016, 08:40:43 pm
Requesting a lock since a peace treaty has been released not so long ago.
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