Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Arslan on December 18, 2017, 02:25:40 am
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Hello,
Is advertising the sale of red phosphorus illegal? I mean considering it is only a chemical with many uses, it shouldn't be. According to admins it is illegal though common sense would say otherwise.
Please clarify this.
Thanks.
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it's not classified as illegal in the constitution, so it's not illegal to advertise sale of it.
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it's not classified as illegal in the constitution, so it's not illegal to advertise sale of it.
Yes but admins enforce it as a rule claiming it is illegal hence I think HQ needs to clarify. I made ads and no admins said anything before but Ikhm and Kyle say no.
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/facepalm, any meth ingredient is considered illegal thus why ppl say math books or cooking ingredients instead of naming each chemical.
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/facepalm, any meth ingredient is considered illegal thus why ppl say math books or cooking ingredients instead of naming each chemical.
There is a difference between meth itself and ingredients put together to create it. People use math books because they are saying meth. I am simply selling a chemical on its own, not a collection of ingredients or meth.
I don't see how this is a "/facepalm" situation. If anything, facepalm should be at this logic.
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/facepalm, any meth ingredient is considered illegal thus why ppl say math books or cooking ingredients instead of naming each chemical.
I wouldn't say that they should be illegal, otherwise every other chemical element should be. There's many different uses for them, you can use them to craft a dildo that goes on fire (RPly) so I don't see a point of calling it illegal. It's just chemistry shit.
EDIT:
I am simply selling a chemical on its own, not a collection of ingredients or meth.
I don't see how this is a "/facepalm" situation. If anything, facepalm should be at this logic.
I agree.
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It's just chemistry shit.
Exactly.
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I know it's illogical and not every rule is set on logical grounds either however i was applying what i was told of and I'm not gonna change that by myself.
The facepalm is because you're refusing to understand after a dozen of repeated explanations.
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I know it's illogical and not every rule is set on logical grounds either however i was applying what i was told of and I'm not gonna change that by myself.
The facepalm is because you're refusing to understand after a dozen of repeated explanations.
How can one understand something that is illogical which you've just pointed out yourself. It requires change hence I made this topic. I ain't refusing anything, I am merely disagreeing with this rule and pushing for change.
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Lol don't advertise illegal stuff. Use common sense
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Lol don't advertise illegal stuff. Use common sense
/facepalm
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meth - maths
meth equipment - maths equipment
toys - guns
nerf guns - real guns
tea - weed
green tea - definitely weed
red powder - red phosphorus
6 months of detective work to figure this out you're welcome
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Selling such chemicals isn't even illegal IRL AFAIK. Sure it will definitely raise red flags to the cops but they can only make an arrest once meth is actually made or intent to make meth is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I get ID'd at any store when I buy anything containing chemicals that could aid in manufacturing meth. Most of the time it's something like a bottle of cold syrup, and the store has to keep log of it in case cops need it.
TL;DR - It shouldn't be illegal to tell but it definitely should give cops enough probable cause to start investigating and watching those who buy and sell it.
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Just because it can be made to meth you can't illegalize it. With that logic, let's illegalize metal too because people can make tanks out of it.
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Your ad clearly indicates that you intend to use the materials in the production of meth, which makes the ad illegal.
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Your ad clearly indicates that you intend to use the materials in the production of meth, which makes the ad illegal.
And how does it clearly indicate? Haha.
"Red phosphorus, comparatively harmless, is used in matches. Ferrophosphorus, a combination of phosphorus with iron, is used as an ingredient in high-strength low-alloy steel. In addition, the many organic compounds of phosphorus have varied uses, including those as additives for gasoline and lubricating oil, as plasticizers for plastics that otherwise would be inconveniently rigid, and, in some cases, as powerful insecticides, related to nerve poisons."
What if he's selling matches.
It's not illegal.
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Your ad clearly indicates that you intend to use the materials in the production of meth, which makes the ad illegal.
So let's say that I only craft that certain item, in this case Red Phosphorus and only that. I myself use the item in this case as a money earning source. I only craft and sell Red Phosphorus. Am I doing something illegal? No I am not, It's none of my business what the buyer does with it. I myself am selling something that it's not against the constitution. I am not selling meth or any other illegal stuff. If people think that it's illegal then call the certain agencies to deal with it. But to be honest, it's not something Admins should handle. It's more roleplay wise situation.
I really do not understand how Red Phosphorus can be illegal.
EDIT:
Red Phosphorus can also be used to make Matchsticks, does that make Matchsticks illegal as well? C'mon, this argument is useless.
(https://i.imgur.com/5dAgjpL.png)
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I know it's illogical and not every rule is set on logical grounds either however i was applying what i was told of and I'm not gonna change that by myself.
The facepalm is because you're refusing to understand after a dozen of repeated explanations.
Dude all the respect for you but you stepped into deep shit with that comment. Don't you have your own opinion?
(https://i.imgur.com/UE2VjDw.png)
I suggest everyone who said this is illegal to apologize to Arslan.
Facepalm because he's refusing to understand? No, admirations for him and his common sense.
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I don't get why such an illegal advertisement is handled in administrative ways and not by law enforcement though.
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I don't get why such an illegal advertisement is handled in administrative ways and not by law enforcement though.
Exactly this. It shouldn't be handled by ADMINS, it should be handled by the proper law enforcement AKA FBI AND/OR SAPD.
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I don't get why such an illegal advertisement is handled in administrative ways and not by law enforcement though.
How is crafting matchsticks being illegal? Explain please. I was in-game when he made the ad... it was "Selling red phosphorus", not "Selling meth ingredient" nor "selling red phosphorus for cookin' " You can't claim something is illegal if there is a legal use of it. Admit it already.
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How is crafting matchsticks being illegal? Explain please. I was in-game when he made the ad... it was "Selling red phosphorus", not "Selling meth ingredient" nor "selling red phosphorus for cookin' " You can't claim something is illegal if there is a legal use of it. Admit it already.
You might want to get your facts straight. The ad clearly said it was intended to use the items for meth production. Who are you guys trying to fool?
(https://i.imgur.com/Ihgpa4i.png)
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You might want to get your facts straight. The ad clearly said it was intended to use the items for meth production. Who are you guys trying to fool?
(https://i.imgur.com/Ihgpa4i.png)
No no no no, that ad was made after the conversation with admins and was made more to mock them. The first one said only AD Selling Red Phosphorus.
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I don't get why such an illegal advertisement is handled in administrative ways and not by law enforcement though.
Exactly this. It shouldn't be handled by ADMINS, it should be handled by the proper law enforcement AKA FBI AND/OR SAPD.
I dare you both to go to any local news source and publish an advertisement saying you sell weed and cocaine, let me know the news channel and I'll wait. The logic behind admins interfering is that a news agency would never display anything illegal, AND "GREEN TEA AND WHITE SUGAR" SHOULD ALSO BE BANNED. But that's for a different subject.
Whoever told you it's against the rules is clearly not educated on the constitution, as red phosphorus is in itself not illegal. Fuck, bribery wasn't illegal at some point in time xDD It got me banned though, so I'd watch out.
You might want to get your facts straight. The ad clearly said it was intended to use the items for meth production. Who are you guys trying to fool?
(https://i.imgur.com/Ihgpa4i.png)
but bruh what, it clearly says neth there???
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Let's keep going with logic shall we.
Such kind of chemicals needs a license hi stivi from any government to be sold and have the cops being in their asses the whole time, the sponsors/companies that sell such kinds of chemicals always have clients which means they do not need any advertisement through the newspaper and/or the media as the companies who need such ingredients to craft any product (weapon, matchsticks, medicines) will go to them by themselves. So any citizen cannot advertise such chemical in the news to be sold as he doesn't have the license to sell and is considered illegal if he does so.
One more thing: Matchsticks aren't only made of red phosphorus (hi bogomil)
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hi stivi
Hi.
Let's keep going with logic shall we.
Yet you can sell armour cases but not red phosphorus.
Such kind of chemicals needs a license
Thought we were to keep going with logic here, no? They don't need, they are not even illegal as far as the constitution goes. Guns don't even need a license, yet you want something that is legal, COMPLETELY legal, to have a license? You know we buy that shit from black market right? So how will you regulate that? lol pls.
I don't mean to be offensive by saying uneducated or something, I apologize to anyone who sees it as such, my vocabulary is just not the greatest :dead:
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hhhh he said to make neth /lock
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As long as in the constitution it is not marked as illegal ingredient i see no reason to not allow it, however.. afterwards some detective should begin to do his job and find out what is going on behind the scene.
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Let's say it's illegal :app:
And we need license :app:
(Hi ikhm) where is the licenses ?
Befor you speak make license script then told US we need to have license to deal it .
We don't have a license script , so when cop catch me ill do smth ez pz , /me takes out the pocket and takes the license from it , /me hands it to the officer , done.
And we deal with it .
Try to make license script then talk about it ;)
:rofl: :hah:
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Let's keep going with logic shall we.
Such kind of chemicals needs a license hi stivi from any government to be sold and have the cops being in their asses the whole time, the sponsors/companies that sell such kinds of chemicals always have clients which means they do not need any advertisement through the newspaper and/or the media as the companies who need such ingredients to craft any product (weapon, matchsticks, medicines) will go to them by themselves. So any citizen cannot advertise such chemical in the news to be sold as he doesn't have the license to sell and is considered illegal if he does so.
One more thing: Matchsticks aren't only made of red phosphorus (hi bogomil)
According to crafting system it is. Also just admit you're wrong dude :D You should know when you're wrong
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That's my opinion too but it was always considered illegal so I can't do anything about it.
I was talking generally in most countries in real life.
I'm not the one who set the rule.
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That's my opinion too but it was always considered illegal so I can't do anything about it.
it was NEVER considered illegal
also idk how u all missed what was literally the second post in the topic
it's not classified as illegal in the constitution, so it's not illegal to advertise sale of it.
what's written in the constitution is the only thing that matters when discussing whether or not something is illegal... cos u know... that's where that stuff is very clearly outlined and defined. this is rly a pointless discussion, as there's nothing to discuss... it's all pretty clear lol
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You might want to get your facts straight. The ad clearly said it was intended to use the items for meth production. Who are you guys trying to fool?
(https://i.imgur.com/Ihgpa4i.png)
Made this after getting a banana for saying it is legal. :(
Stivi you made a valid point, guns are legal to sell but red phosphorus isn't. :rofl:
One more thing: Matchsticks aren't only made of red phosphorus (hi bogomil)
Exactly the point im making. I am selling an ingredient used to make many things which quite frankly, you are refusing you understand.
this is rly a pointless discussion, as there's nothing to discuss... it's all pretty clear lol
Tell that to officer Ikhm/Kyle.
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Lol you guys obviously dont understand how things work here. If admin says its illegal then it is illegal, regardless of rules, common sense and anything else.
I also have to mention that 'illegal' (aka against the law) and 'against the rules' are not the same thing. admins oftenly decide to handle both the same way tho
Also to those who compare /ad to irl advertising, for fucks sake this is a game. There isn't a person to observe and allow/deny ads so the only suitable solution is to have LE groups handle both illegal and 'fake' legal ads. Or just continue letting staff make up rules and handle roleplay matters with admin commands
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Stivi you made a valid point, guns are legal to sell but red phosphorus isn't. :rofl:
hi Arslan, that was ignored :|
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There isn't a person to observe and allow/deny ads so the only suitable solution is to have LE groups handle both illegal and 'fake' legal ads.
This'd work I think. No idea why historically this hasn't been the case.
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Made this after getting a banana for saying it is legal. :(
Neth is a very lazy way to try to hide the real purpose. Be more creative.
Exactly the point im making. I am selling an ingredient used to make many things which quite frankly, you are refusing you understand.
Tell that to officer Ikhm/Kyle.
Since you mention my name. I was only someone delivering the message, it is not something that I grabbed out of thin air.
In fact, I was the one to tell you to create a topic about it so it can be brought up to the server management. And since you were too lazy to do it yourself :
(https://i.imgur.com/lZj9zQA.png)
It is not illegal because Khm, or I, or a third admin / helper / player deems it to be. It is illegal because it is deemed illegal by the script. Thus until that is cleared it is not allowed to make such advertisements on the server.
However, I totally support the idea of legalizing this in a proper way. By the way, even in IRL, you cannot just go and purchase some chemicals, labs need to show certification and only they can acquire it.
It is not only match sticks that red phosphorus can produce, but it has way more uses like producing smoke bombs. ;)
https://sciencing.com/red-phosphorus-for-5595849.html
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EDIT:
Red Phosphorus can also be used to make Matchsticks, does that make Matchsticks illegal as well? C'mon, this argument is useless.
(https://i.imgur.com/5dAgjpL.png)
You grabbed it the wrong way. :lol:
/recipes show you need matchsticks which you buy from a 24X7, to craft red phosphorus. You cannot make Matchsticks on Argonath. :lol:
And yes, it is a rather illegal way to obtain a chemical. A lot like street children using adhesive and cough syrups to get high, and cough syrups are banned in multiple countries due to that, or require a prescription.
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Neth is a very lazy way to try to hide the real purpose. Be more creative.
So is math. But nobody says shit about it.
It is not illegal because Khm, or I, or a third admin / helper / player deems it to be. It is illegal because it is deemed illegal by the script. Thus until that is cleared it is not allowed to make such advertisements on the server.
You see that flawed logic you use? Or do I have to bold it out for you?
So here's why I think that was placed there: Red Phosphorus is something you get at the black market, you don't sell that a normal market. Otherwise, what's the point of a black market? Hmmm??
Oh, and to add, Teddy is the one who made Market (if he didn't he was in charge of the dev team anyway, no?) Now when he added RPGs, he made them illegal in the constitution, and he did that because any dev leader/HQ member has that power, and ultimately it has to be approved by Gandalf as the president, but the constitution has, since the release of meth, been updated multiple times, by Marcel too, so if those were illegal he would have added them, no? Enough with this script made it illegal bullshit. If it's otherwise stated in the constitution, it is legal.
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Neth is a very lazy way to try to hide the real purpose. Be more creative.
Since you mention my name. I was only someone delivering the message, it is not something that I grabbed out of thin air.
In fact, I was the one to tell you to create a topic about it so it can be brought up to the server management. And since you were too lazy to do it yourself :
(https://i.imgur.com/lZj9zQA.png)
It is not illegal because Khm, or I, or a third admin / helper / player deems it to be. It is illegal because it is deemed illegal by the script. Thus until that is cleared it is not allowed to make such advertisements on the server.
However, I totally support the idea of legalizing this in a proper way. By the way, even in IRL, you cannot just go and purchase some chemicals, labs need to show certification and only they can acquire it.
It is not only match sticks that red phosphorus can produce, but it has way more uses like producing smoke bombs. ;)
https://sciencing.com/red-phosphorus-for-5595849.html
Neth was used to demonstrate the stupidity of the rule that it is illegal and not to show creativity. I mean its accepted when I more obviously advertise it to be used for meth rather than it being sold alone as a chemical. Who cares what it is or isn't by script, it is wrong for it to be illegal.
I don't think HQ needs to create a think tank to deal with this issue, its pretty simple. A simple sentence saying it should be legal will end the argument.
It is not only match sticks that red phosphorus can produce, but it has way more uses like producing smoke bombs. ;)
So are a 100 other things, what's your point?
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So are a 100 other things, what's your point?
I even provided a picture tutorial along with description yet you failed to get the point.
Now I would gladly go and curate a Udemy tutorial for you, but fortunately it is not my job.
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Sometimes I think people lose sight of what does or doesn't matter :rolleyes: For the sake of ending an argument though, it'd be good if either:
A) A judge amends the constitution to confirm the item is illegal
or
B) A scripter makes the multiple changes to the script to reflect it being legal...
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A) A judge amends the constitution to confirm the item is illegal
B) A scripter makes the multiple changes to the script to reflect it being legal...
Sure, we do have those options, but we previously had the option of a scripter also making the changes to the constitution, and they didn't. Also, as it is, Arslan got punished for something false, as the item is LEGAL. As a dev yourself, would you easier create a list of things you can't and display their message, or create multiple list for various messages? While, the message itself can be changed to "You can't sell that here." would be better ;P
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Arslan got punished for something false, as the item is LEGAL.
That's bullshit he wasn't punished for the ad he was simply told to not ad for it, he got a banana for his provocative attitude towards a community member.
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That's bullshit he wasn't punished for the ad he was simply told to not ad for it
Sure, not very aware of what happened... but being told not ad for it is wrong too.
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That's bullshit he wasn't punished for the ad he was simply told to not ad for it, he got a banana for his provocative attitude towards a community member.
:neutral2: who? Wasn't even speaking about anything else other than this. I was talking to people about it being legal and you went gangsta with red name because we can't talk about it for some reason.
I even provided a picture tutorial along with description yet you failed to get the point.
Now I would gladly go and curate a Udemy tutorial for you, but fortunately it is not my job.
All you've said is you've made a point but not told me the actual point. Your photo shows you can't make matchsticks in Arognath, and what? Don't see how that is relevant.
Just because the script says something it doesn't mean it is right. Script was made by people as well and not aliens.