Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Jeremy. on March 15, 2018, 08:41:24 pm
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[20:47:16] JoshThePenguin(1) has unholstered their taser.
[20:47:17] Bogdan_Gvardia(2) got hit in their body armour by the taser of JoshThePenguin(1).
[20:48:13] JoshThePenguin: (1) Who says we can't shoot an armed suspect with a taser, you weren't shooting when I shot
[20:48:16] JoshThePenguin: (1) Be happy I hit your vest
[20:48:21] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) Don't act all cool and shit against me
[20:48:26] Bogdan_Gvardia: (2) i was holding a deagle in my hand
[20:48:34] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) That still gives me the right to tase you
[20:48:38] Bogdan_Gvardia{909090}: (2) nope
[20:48:40] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) I just cannot tase you in an active shootout
[20:48:42] Bogdan_Gvardia{909090}: (2) go read sapd regulations lol
[20:48:47] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) Dude, stop smartassing.
[20:48:50] A staff member has muted you from all chat functions.
[20:48:53] You have been muted from all chats temporarily.
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[20:59:43] Staff message from JoshThePenguin(11): Don't make up your own server rules or SAPD regulations, thank you.
[21:00:07] PM to JoshThePenguin(11): I'm not making anything on my own, I stated the SAPD regulation itself.
[21:00:28] PM to JoshThePenguin(11): Cops are not allowed to shoot a suspect in combat or while holding a gun in their hand.
[21:00:51] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): We aren't allowed to tase suspects who are actively shooting, that's a server rule to begin with.
[21:01:18] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): Besides that, we're permitted to tase anyone who holds a gun or whatever.
[21:01:21] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): As long as he's not shooting.
[21:01:32] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): if you're not the cop here, stop smartassing and stop making shit up.
Okay, totally ignoring the part while it was actually an active shootout and we were both exchanging fires, while I was shooting with deagle he was shooting with taser. He totally denied that but once I stepped out of my vehicle I was holding my deagle in my hand and trying to find a place where I could open fire on police officers. My point is, I was clearly holding my deagle in my hand the entire time, I've tried to explain that politely to JoshThePenguin admin and suddenly I turned out "smartassing" muted then "smartassing and stop making shit up".
Here you go, mister admen:
The Taser can't be used if:
- The suspect is wielding any type weapon.(firearms and sharp objects)
If you ever wonder why the playerbase is decreasing, this might be one of the reasons. Ignoring the fact that he's administrator, he is also a Senior Officer which lowers the possibility of him doing an unwanted mistake. Now I need someone to clarrify this properly since the SAPD regulations are "hidden". Thanks.
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You can not taser a player that is actively shooting.
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=100219.msg1605344#msg1605344
Got it from that
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doesn't it require RP to taze? like you must taze it rply ?
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You can not taser a player that is actively shooting.
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Taser is meant to be used for suspects who fail to comply or simply resist in surrendering.
There are also certain facts about its usage that are in the SAPD rulebooks.
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From what I remember you can't shoot a taser at someone with a gun showing.
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[20:48:13] JoshThePenguin: (1) Who says we can't shoot an armed suspect with a taser, you weren't shooting when I shot
[20:48:16] JoshThePenguin: (1) Be happy I hit your vest
Of course you cannot do it. It is against the server rules. Even if he is holding a weapon and not using it.
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This is a very old rule to be honest. It came soon after taser. All admins should read rules.
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Why even have a taser out when someone has a weapon out. Like Charles said, Taser is meant to be used on un-armed suspects who are either not complying or the ones running away on foot.
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Welp, not complying and having your hands up still means you get tased nowadays, so I don't see where the problem is. :lol:
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[20:48:13] JoshThePenguin: (1) Who says we can't shoot an armed suspect with a taser, you weren't shooting when I shot
[20:48:16] JoshThePenguin: (1) Be happy I hit your vest
Of course you cannot do it. It is against the server rules. Even if he is holding a weapon and not using it.
The server rule book doesn't state holding a weapon but it states active shootouts. However SAPD regulations, that's something I don't have that much of idea about.
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Well this one is on SAPD's student book. Can't quote it with the link as it is a locked topic.
In case they begin to run away, you should attempt to tase them, while taking into account the surroundings as well as the circumstances at hand. For example, if they draw a firearm, do not use the taser as it is dangerous, you must unholster your service firearm. If you decide to tase them, you must verbally state your intention to prevent the suspect being tased by multiple officers, which is also lethally dangerous.
It is as well common sense, why would you even use a taser when someone has a shotgun or a SMG on his hand. Use the duty weapon and ask for compliance.
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Well, then it's an SAPD matter, not an Administrative matter, right?
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Well, then it's an SAPD matter, not an Administrative matter, right?
Pretty much.
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I love how you bitch on forum for anything that happens to you. Is this the way you have found justification? Suck it up and deal with it.
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[20:48:13] JoshThePenguin: (1) Who says we can't shoot an armed suspect with a taser, you weren't shooting when I shot
[20:48:16] JoshThePenguin: (1) Be happy I hit your vest
Of course you cannot do it. It is against the server rules. Even if he is holding a weapon and not using it.
[21:01:18] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): Besides that, we're permitted to tase anyone who holds a gun or whatever.
@JoshThePenguin
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Well, then it's an SAPD matter, not an Administrative matter, right?
Which in other words means tough luck Jeremy, deal with it. Can't do nothing.
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I love how you bitch on forum for anything that happens to you. Is this the way you have found justification? Suck it up and deal with it.
Who is "bitching" lil Mario boi? When a rule is pretty clear stated and the admin which took part of the scenario claims such a rule doesnt exist I'm free to open any kind of topic if it's not going against the rules. As far as I didn't break any forum rule and you have nothing constructive to say I advise you to return your cave and let the big guys do their talking, bye bye.
And to add, I haven't been punished, lucky me.
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Well, then it's an SAPD matter, not an Administrative matter, right?
This.
I love how you bitch on forum for anything that happens to you. Is this the way you have found justification? Suck it up and deal with it.
Who is "bitching" lil Mario boi? When a rule is pretty clear stated and the admin which took part of the scenario claims such a rule doesnt exist I'm free to open any kind of topic if it's not going against the rules. As far as I didn't break any rule and you have nothing constructive to say I advise you to return your cave and let the big guys do their talking, bye bye.
And to add, I haven't been punished, lucky me.
You know, the fact that you create a topic, every time you don't like something, shows that your bitching, no offense. I got a lot of shit that I can create a topic about, but I don't, why? No one wants a shitstorm. Take it to PM or something with the respective person. Thank you.
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CAN WE NOT TURN EVERY TOPIC INTO SOME WEIRD ARGUMENT??? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
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Well, then it's an SAPD matter, not an Administrative matter, right?
Well as it wasn't an active shootout it indeed wasn't something admin should handle. But I really do find this semi-admin semi-sapd situation. Anyway, not me to decide of that. Anyway I'll stop here with this topic as I already explained everything that I know regarding usage of taser.
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The only ones which are creating "shitstorm" are two of you, I don't see anyone else doing it. Rest of people which posted been respectful and had a valid point. Now take your negativism away, thanks.
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I honestly advice returning those sapd regulations which got hidden, to be made publicly in order to avoid such issues.
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This is a clarification topic, if you have a problem with an administration you can go ahead and report him. This is not a place to be showing how much you hate eachother aswell, meaning cease the fight.
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If you ever wonder why the playerbase is decreasing, this might be one of the reasons.
I saw a WS leader get kicked by moderators for using capslock to say "hi" to me on main chat the other day. So beware, things got strict around Argonath.
Also, the reason why you cannot tase someone holding a gun is the fact that if the person gets tased, his/her muscles will result in strong involuntary contractions as 50,000 volts run through you and you might end up killing yourself with the gun. The gun might go off as you get tased, that's why. @SAPD Public Affairs should take measures against the officer or let him re-do the academy.
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http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=114739.msg1803910#msg1803910
i was the man who suggested taser and as the man who suggested taser i do not approve of this behavior from joshthepenguin because its un rp to tase a suspect with gun because they might spazz out and shoot, leading to danger. it is an IC matter though so u may submit ia report which will probably get trashed
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There was no server rule broken, but a SAPD one... this should be investigated by SAPD IA not admins, as no server rule was broken
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For those of you who are sick of watching this mess over and over again, here's a quick summary of what's meant to be taught here, in order to avoid future in-game or forum differences.
Taser is meant to be used for suspects who fail to comply or simply resist in surrendering.
This.
There was no server rule broken, but a SAPD one... this should be investigated by SAPD IA not admins, as no server rule was broken
And this.
I'm out.
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I saw a WS leader get kicked by moderators for using capslock to say "hi" to me on main chat the other day. So beware, things got strict around Argonath.
You conveniently left out the part about using racial slurs, unnecessary spam, and ignoring the in-chat warning to cease such things in /p. Additionally, there was a report being handled about said [WS] leader's DeathMatching going on, in which he decided to start insulting and provoking, all which happened after chaotic circumstances and order was being restored to the server.
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Also, the reason why you cannot tase someone holding a gun is the fact that if the person gets tased, his/her muscles will result in strong involuntary contractions as 50,000 volts run through you and you might end up killing yourself with the gun. The gun might go off as you get tased, that's why. @SAPD Public Affairs should take measures against the officer or let him re-do the academy.
This is exactly why that server rule was implemented, iirc. You may not use the taser on someone holding a weapon, for reasons stated above. If that's not the rule, then it should be changed.
You conveniently left out the part about using racial slurs
There was this guy who was totally fine by Hitler having killed my people, and was actually happy about it, he also said a bunch of other shit but got warned and just that. This guy says hi and gets kicked. But that's for another topic, don't you think?
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This is exactly why that server rule was implemented, iirc. You may not use the taser on someone holding a weapon, for reasons stated above. If that's not the rule, then it should be changed.
While I agree that it makes little to no sense to taser someone holding a firearm for a multitude of reasons, Administration is bound by rules as they stand, not how we think they should be or what makes logical sense IRL. Currently, the server rule scope specifically only covers actively shooting, and makes no mention of in-hand. It's not our job to interpret rules or the reasoning for the way they are; rather, it's our job to enforce them. It IS clear that the requirements of tazing needs to be addressed from both HQ (server rule) and SAPD (server regulation) based on the consensus of this topic. However, the way the player that was tazed went about it was all wrong. Provoking, namecalling, insulting, and moaning in /p is not the way to handle a situation where two parties disagree. It's simply not constructive and stirs the shitpot unnecessarily. Had he said "Hey man, that doesn't seem right, can we talk?" I'm confident Administration would have been more open to hear out his debate on the spot. Instead, he stooped lowly and childishly to provocations and disrupting the server environment, which IS a rulebreak, hence the negative feedback and resistance he received.
...But that's for another topic, don't you think?
Indeed it is, however I will not idly stand by when someone misrepresents a situation intentionally to their own agenda and argument or by accident because they are unaware. This is a clarification topic, and my response aimed simply to clarify.
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lol how I was provocative? I simply stated the sapd regulation for taser usage and he was the one trying to incite things, not myself. Go re-read the chatlogs I posted in the first post, you can clearly see how he tried to make things go his way by disabling me from using any kind of chat. So yea whenever you're not winning an argument and you are aware of what you've done wrong you should rather mute someone and try to provoke him by saying someone is "smartass" is something normal from an administration team. You clearly have wrong vision about what administrating itself is and I just remembered Arslan's topic about you.
You people need to understand you can't enforce a rule which suits the scenario you've took part just to make the things go YOUR WAY, you did wrong you suck it up and admit your mistake, being an admin doesn't mean you're 100% right on all your decisions but your ego clearly can't accept it and just because I'm on criminal side doesn't change the fact of me being aware of taser regulations.
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Provoking, namecalling, insulting, and moaning in /p is not the way to handle a situation where two parties disagree. It's simply not constructive and stirs the shitpot unnecessarily. Had he said "Hey man, that doesn't seem right, can we talk?" I'm confident Administration would have been more open to hear out his debate on the spot. Instead, he stooped lowly and childishly to provocations and disrupting the server environment, which IS a rulebreak, hence the negative feedback and resistance he received.
[20:48:26] Bogdan_Gvardia: (2) i was holding a deagle in my hand
[20:48:38] Bogdan_Gvardia{909090}: (2) nope
[20:48:42] Bogdan_Gvardia{909090}: (2) go read sapd regulations lol
[21:00:07] PM to JoshThePenguin(11): I'm not making anything on my own, I stated the SAPD regulation itself.
[21:00:28] PM to JoshThePenguin(11): Cops are not allowed to shoot a suspect in combat or while holding a gun in their hand.
So from this chatlog you understood the fact that I'm "Provoking/namecalling/insulting/moaning and showing a childish attitude" ? There's something wrong with you for real lol. Let me show you again the chatlogs from Josh maybe it will be easier for your brain to comprehend stuff.
[20:48:13] JoshThePenguin: (1) Who says we can't shoot an armed suspect with a taser, you weren't shooting when I shot
[20:48:16] JoshThePenguin: (1) Be happy I hit your vest
[20:48:21] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) Don't act all cool and shit against me
[20:48:34] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) That still gives me the right to tase you
[20:48:40] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) I just cannot tase you in an active shootout
[20:48:47] JoshThePenguin{909090}: (1) Dude, stop smartassing.
[20:48:50] A staff member has muted you from all chat functions.
[20:48:53] You have been muted from all chats temporarily.
[20:59:43] Staff message from JoshThePenguin(11): Don't make up your own server rules or SAPD regulations, thank you.
[21:00:51] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): We aren't allowed to tase suspects who are actively shooting, that's a server rule to begin with.
[21:01:18] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): Besides that, we're permitted to tase anyone who holds a gun or whatever.
[21:01:21] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): As long as he's not shooting.
[21:01:32] PM from JoshThePenguin(11): if you're not the cop here, stop smartassing and stop making shit up.
I hope I made it easier for you, thanks.
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Apparently SAPD needs to adopt the use of force triangle and enforce it across the board. It's really simple. Deadly weapons are met with deadly force. Unarmed and non compliance is met with less lethal.
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This is exactly why that server rule was implemented, iirc. You may not use the taser on someone holding a weapon, for reasons stated above. If that's not the rule, then it should be changed.
While I agree that it makes little to no sense to taser someone holding a firearm for a multitude of reasons, Administration is bound by rules as they stand, not how we think they should be or what makes logical sense IRL. Currently, the server rule scope specifically only covers actively shooting, and makes no mention of in-hand. It's not our job to interpret rules or the reasoning for the way they are; rather, it's our job to enforce them. It IS clear that the requirements of tazing needs to be addressed from both HQ (server rule) and SAPD (server regulation) based on the consensus of this topic. However, the way the player that was tazed went about it was all wrong. Provoking, namecalling, insulting, and moaning in /p is not the way to handle a situation where two parties disagree. It's simply not constructive and stirs the shitpot unnecessarily. Had he said "Hey man, that doesn't seem right, can we talk?" I'm confident Administration would have been more open to hear out his debate on the spot. Instead, he stooped lowly and childishly to provocations and disrupting the server environment, which IS a rulebreak, hence the negative feedback and resistance he received.
Oh please, spare me the "be polite" crap. Did you know it's against the server rules to argue back? Yeah that shouldn't happen, but it is, and it gives the admin handling the situation ultimate authority. Because he may or may not have ( nothing in the logs ) thrown provocations around, he can still be right. I got banned for refusing to go to jail for bribing a cop. The police-side admins really don't know where to draw the line between SAPD regulations and server rules, but both instances are solved with a copban.
You pull this shit often, if a player is provocative doesn't mean he is wrong. Cena used to have some good ideas for the server, some of them even implemented. If we were to go your way, there would be no moving forward, so stop with the bullshit from the past and deal with what you are given.
It's really simple. Deadly weapons are met with deadly force. Unarmed and non compliance is met with less lethal.
However that is not on the server rules, and I for one think it should be changed/clarified. Apparently, you have to be in an active shootout, which, ever since the in-combat script has lost its definition now. Can you change it or does it need HQ?
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Apparently SAPD needs to adopt the use of force triangle and enforce it across the board. It's really simple. Deadly weapons are met with deadly force. Unarmed and non compliance is met with less lethal.
It is correct that tasers shouldn't be used when a person is actively holding a weapon; however throughout the previous year(s) and ever since it was implemented, there was an exception for when the suspect isn't shooting (actively using the weapon), as stated in the rules.
The SAPD regulations state that you cannot use a taser on someone that is holding a weapon as somehow you (Jeremy) managed to get. However if a person isn't using a weapon at that moment, or haven't used it at all before, you have a light chance to use taser on him as long as he's no holding a hostage, near civilians..etc. and is in an actual isolated place as we all know, taser shocks your body and causes unwanted movement and could lead to pulling the trigger unintentionally.
This matter in fact wasn't clarified ever since the taser was made. I myself was taught that the taser can be used as long as the suspect is not shooting with a weapon (even if holding), however regulations stated otherwise. This matter will be brought to discussion and should be clarified for the members of the law enforcement services..
Off topic note.. get back to topic and stop bringing irrelevant subjects to it. If you got an issue with an administrator, handle it personally in PM or propose a complaint against the said administrator. Forum topics are not where you go whining and moaning about an incident that happened to you in-game, trying of it to show a bad picture of the administrator.
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Well if you were just holding a gun in an isolated place then you can be tazed, to me tazing is better than killing someone.
Well, if the cops shoot and kill you then also you complain about them taking away your "hard earned" weapons. So, i think if you are tazed instead of being shot then you should be happy
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The rules state "active shootout," and the SAPD student guide mentions "when a weapon is unholstered."
Quite clear to me that this is an SAPD investigation and can be done in an RP fashion.
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Apparently SAPD needs to adopt the use of force triangle and enforce it across the board. It's really simple. Deadly weapons are met with deadly force. Unarmed and non compliance is met with less lethal.
It is correct that tasers shouldn't be used when a person is actively holding a weapon; however throughout the previous year(s) and ever since it was implemented, there was an exception for when the suspect isn't shooting (actively using the weapon), as stated in the rules.
The SAPD regulations state that you cannot use a taser on someone that is holding a weapon as somehow you (Jeremy) managed to get. However if a person isn't using a weapon at that moment, or haven't used it at all before, you have a light chance to use taser on him as long as he's no holding a hostage, near civilians..etc. and is in an actual isolated place as we all know, taser shocks your body and causes unwanted movement and could lead to pulling the trigger unintentionally.
This matter in fact wasn't clarified ever since the taser was made. I myself was taught that the taser can be used as long as the suspect is not shooting with a weapon (even if holding), however regulations stated otherwise. This matter will be brought to discussion and should be clarified for the members of the law enforcement services..
Off topic note.. get back to topic and stop bringing irrelevant subjects to it. If you got an issue with an administrator, handle it personally in PM or propose a complaint against the said administrator. Forum topics are not where you go whining and moaning about an incident that happened to you in-game, trying of it to show a bad picture of the administrator.
Your fellow admin mate, Vaeldious, started with throwing irrelevant statements and accusations and totally going off-topic. Stop throwing shit everytime on players, you're humans too, you make mistakes aswell but that doesnt mean you are allowed to do something stupid(josh in this case) just to make things go your way, especially when Andeey logged in. This topic wasnt about how shit Josh or Vael are at administrating yet debating a subject about taser regulations. So I hereby ask you to stop trying to take your m8's back and be on topic, thanks.
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http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?action=form;n=8
Report him then..?
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I'm responding to this topic as the chief of police of the San Andreas police department. As a matter of fact, if you got anything wrong against what happened fill an IA complaint. This isn't a discussion topic, it's a humiliating topic just like the rest.
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Topic locked since you got an answer from the SAPD Chief.