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GTA:IV => IV:MP - Liberty City Multiplayer => IV:MP General => Topic started by: Mac Taylor on July 17, 2018, 01:39:02 pm

Title: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Mac Taylor on July 17, 2018, 01:39:02 pm
Hello everyone,
This topic is to discuss about RP rules whether changing/adding/removing any rule, as I searched a lot in the forums and i didn't find a topic that clarify RP rules, so This topic is to start discussing rules
and suggest adding/removing/changing a rule, So read the following and let me know your opinions and If you got any more ideas about Rules to add post it here.



General RP Rules :

 - Forcing Roleplay :
1) Forcing ROLE PLAY is like having all the role play on your favor and not willing others to respond to your role play,
so in order to avoid forcing role play, we have /em command where both parties agree about a situation,
example: ' /me attempts to drag player1's arm ' '/em will i grab your arm? ' then player1's answers '/em no and stats the reason, like i would run away'
 or "/dice" command where both parties should do /dice and higher win the action, example :
Player1 grabs player2's arm
player1 rolled the dice : 5
player2 rolled the dice : 6
This means that player2 won and he should do an action after that like "player2 Runs away before player1 grabs his arm" This means that the other side(player1) couldn't grab player2's arm
because player2 ran away before he do that.

2) another meaning for Forcing Roleplay is forcing something to be on someone's character example :
Cop1 Approaches to player2
Cop1 notices a gun on player2's hand
Cop1 suspects player2 for showing gun in the public
While in fact player2 doesn't have any gun on his hand at all, and it's just called forcing RP and abusing powers which is not allowed at all.


- Forcing someone to Roleplay : Forcing someone to Roleplay is totally different from forcing Roleplay.
Example : Player1 Approaches to Player2
Player1 roleplays kidnapping player2 by showing the gun and threatening him, but player 2 refuses the Roleplay and says that he don't want to roleplay but instead from cutting it,
player 1 completes roleplaying and then shoots player2 as he didn't respond to his orders in roleplay and this is not allowed.
in fact both of them did mistakes,
Player2 mistake is that he  Refused to Roleplay then he should have a real reason for this, as this is a RP server whether it's light RP or not, but still a RP server which means
you joined the server then you are supposed to RP at anytime exceptions when you got real reasons to refuse to RP like you need to /q soon for a RL reason and the RP scene will take long time.
Player1 mistake is that he forced the other side to RP he should instead report that to admins, and admins will deal with player2 and it's admins task to ask player2 why he refused to RP
(ofc lying to administration is punishable like I refused to RP because I will /q for lunch but then admin left me alone and I completed playing normally and I didn't /q in this case admins should be aware of that)

So in conclosion of this rule :

- You are joining a RP server then you are supposed to RP at anytime refusing to RP for non real reason is not allowed.
- Forcing someone to Roleplay while he can't Roleplay for some REAL reasons is not allowed.



Lack of Roleplay or Failed to RP :

Example 1 :
Player1 Deals with player2 weed and gives him amount of weed.
in the same time player1 was in contact with the police and after the deal finished, police engage and stops both players and arrest both of them, or actually arrest player2
and when police frisks player2 and then asks in "/em what would I find? " player2 replies "/em Passport and Licenses only" which means that he don't have any illegal stuffs, while in fact
he just dealt with player1 amount of weed, this should be reported to administration immediately and Chatlogs will be checked in this case, You have an item in a situation then you should RP having it

Example 2  :

Police chases player1 then player1 stops and starts shooting at police, but at the end police stops player1 and arrests him then frisks the player and when they ask him in" /em what would I find?"
he answers "Nothing" or any other answer but he didn't mention the gun he used to shoot at cops, or another example someone called for backup in his CB radio and then police frisked him and didn't find CB
then it's called failed to RP and Lack of Roleplay and this should be reported to administration.

- You have an item and you used it in a situation then you should complete having the item till the end of the situation.

 - Ignoring actions of RP of the other side :

Example1 :  Police chases a suspect, suspect runs away on foot, a police officer uses the taser to tase him and he did and the message arrived to the suspect but the suspect ignored it and ran away
This is called lack of Roleplay, the suspect should stop and wait and then they use /dice or through /em to decide if the taser missed him or shocked him not just ignoring the action and run away

Example2 : Police chases a suspect, and luckily an officer could enter the suspect's car and the officer starts Rping pulling the handbrake to stop the vehicle or punching the suspect to make him stop the vehicle
but guess what ? the suspect completes running with the vehicle hopefully that his RHL will drop but he is wrong and it's dumb act to ignore the Rp actions of other side, his RHL will never drop as there is an officer with him in the car.


- Ignoring actions of other side just because it will harm you in the RP scenario is not allowed and it's called lack of RP.




Failing to RP: when a player takes advantage of the RP all the time to his side example:

Police officer jumps to the suspect and holds him on the ground, 3 cops comes and helps the cop holding the suspect down
Officer /em s/f?
suspect /em failed
officer /em reason?
In this case, the suspect must at least have a logic reason.
Also in this case using "/dice" to decide who win is not preferable as if the officer lost it, then this means the suspect won and he escapes which is not logical to escape from 4 officers holding him.



Fair RP : To make a Fair RP scenario you should let the other side to respond to your first action, example :

Player1 jumps on player2
Player1 punch player2
player1 takes out the gun and shoots player2

this shows that player1 didn't even let the other side to react to his first action (Jump) instead he completed and punched him and then shot him which is not a Fair RP.

- Taking fast actions and not allowing the other side to react to your actions is not allowed as it's not considered as fair RP.



 - If a player role plays that he doesn't obtain such item and then uses the item out of nowhere is not allowed.
Example :
A felony stop and officer arrests the driver and then frisks him and finds nothing, and then the crime is proved on him and he is guilty
once he is suspected he take out gun from nowhere and starts shooting at cops.

Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Commander_Cj on July 17, 2018, 01:47:00 pm
There is already a Topic (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=118253.0) made by Mihail in the same board. But anyways, nice topic you made here!
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Mac Taylor on July 17, 2018, 01:53:59 pm
There is already a Topic (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=118253.0) made by Mihail in the same board. But anyways, nice topic you made here!

Hey Cj Thanks for replying but you misunderstood what I meant, This is Suggestion topic for CHANGING Rp rules, I am sure you didn't complete reading it all, some of what I mentioned exists and some not, and the purpose of this topic is to hear suggestions for improvements of RP rules and to hear whether you agree or not. it's not a guide topic.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: superh2o on July 17, 2018, 02:19:54 pm
People here just dont wanna rp in 95% of cases, till rules switch to rp server/strict rp server from light nothing can be done.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Mac Taylor on July 17, 2018, 02:27:17 pm
People here just dont wanna rp in 95% of cases, till rules switch to rp server/strict rp server from light nothing can be done.

I agree with you, that's why I made this topic to suggest changing in Rp rules, one from the rules i suggested above and I hope I can see it implemented is

"You joined a RP server then you are supposed to RP at anytime, and Refusing to RP for non real reasons is not allowed"

And what i can see nowdays is only money hunting or weed hunting, no Rps and if you started to rp with someone 90% of them will refuse and we can't force them for this as there is a rule that gives them freewill and option to refuse RP at  anytime.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: JackDockz on July 17, 2018, 03:20:13 pm
We need to change the server from light rp to heavy rp as mane said.
There should be a rule imposed that nobody can avoid rp unless a reason like he needs to quit quickly or smth.
I have encountered people who need to quit when proposed rp but then proceed to grind on missions for the next 2 hours. It happened many times.

Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Mac Taylor on July 17, 2018, 03:43:29 pm
I agree with mane and jack, we need to switch to heavy RP but also there will be problem, heavy RP means a lot of time, a lot of Rps actions to be taken, and actually the point is that most players are lazy to RP, we can have some heavy RP with the current status but rarely very rarely when we find people who is willing to RP and can stay the whole day for one RP, the point is to put strict rules for everyone about RPs, lazy people will no longer be lazy and will start rping after the strict rules is implemented, with current rules, it gives the freewilll and option to everyone to Rp at anytime and to refuse to RP at anytime, we can stay as light RP server, but with some strict rules to make everyone at least Rp and with some rules to make a fair play between both sides. Again the point is not about heavy or light RP, the point is that no one Rps at all, rarely when someone Rp and they have the rule to refuse RPs, we need strict rules to make everyone roleplay at anytime.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Younes on September 11, 2018, 01:23:13 am
People do understand the difference between forcing someone to roleplay, and forcing roleplay itslf (mostly refered to as Powergaming). It is just sad that roleplay is just a term in IVMP, and if it did exist and was forced out by HQ, it would have been much better than SAMP.

I'm sure some administrators still say people have to respond to your roleplay, but mostly from what I have seen this was never enforced. It's been a while since I played on an active daily basis though, I'm not sure how things are running now.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Joe_George on September 11, 2018, 06:16:11 pm
i think we just can't or it won't be effective as expected. coz if ppl are not willing to, they'll break rules no matter what  :D
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: superh2o on September 11, 2018, 06:43:05 pm
The current direction hq took in t4 is a smart move, advertisment and loose rules so all want can have fun or rp, i dont need rules set in stone to rp, more over if ppl who wanna rp group up or decide on forums for times most can be online so all can rp what they wish, communication can solve problems younes is talking about, how good would strict rp rules be if there are only 5 players. 

T4 needs more players then we can change rules.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: James Conway on September 11, 2018, 06:53:03 pm
and if it did exist and was forced out by HQ,
Thank you for creating your own conclusions.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Younes on September 13, 2018, 07:05:41 pm
and if it did exist and was forced out by HQ,
Thank you for creating your own conclusions.

It is a fact. I have been playing IVMP for a long time to understand how things rolled out and sadly that's the truth. I've been told numerous times that you may not force someone to roleplay with you regardless of what the roleplay is. I've been verbally warned by many for forcing someone to roleplay during a traffic stop, so yes that is not just an idea in my mind but rather a fact.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: James Conway on September 13, 2018, 10:21:15 pm
I don't know what situation you encountered back then, so I can't judge that. But I do understand your point of view, however I think it's based on confusion and misunderstanding. Force roleplay is very vague and it's not defined anywhere, so it's open for interpretation. If for example you are suspecting someone for having weed while he has no weed (invalid suspectation) then we might talk of force roleplay aka powergaming. See spoiler.

A player can be described as a PowerGamer if he or she presumes or declares that his or her own action against another player character is successful without giving the other player character the freedom to act on his or her own decisions. This includes but is not limited to:

Forcing actions upon a player.
Failing to allow a player to roleplay their own actions.
Use of items which you haven’t physically obtained.
Acting superhuman.

Taken from https://docs.owlgaming.net/rules/roleplay.html

If a person is speeding, he automatically accepts that he can be pulled over by a cop for speeding. Meaning he indirectly accepts that roleplay, but he can just pay the fine or drive off to get automatically suspected. That would be poor roleplay, but roleplay nonetheless. This way has been done since 2008/2009 when the server started. It has always been relaxed/light roleplay, meaning no roleplay rules are enforced. Which takes me back to your quote 'and if it did exist and was forced out by HQ'. This is not true, ivmp has always been light roleplay, no rules were removed or added for enforcing roleplay. If cases were misjudged based on this 'force roleplay' then that was a mistake.

Together we need to be vigilant about these things. Our stance (hq) about roleplay is to promote and encourage it and has never been different. If cases are misjudged or people are abusing the 'force roleplay' reason then we need to act on it.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Younes on September 13, 2018, 10:30:14 pm
I don't know what situation you encountered back then, so I can't judge that. But I do understand your point of view, however I think it's based on confusion and misunderstanding. Force roleplay is very vague and it's not defined anywhere, so it's open for interpretation. If for example you are suspecting someone for having weed while he has no weed (invalid suspectation) then we might talk of force roleplay aka powergaming. See spoiler.

A player can be described as a PowerGamer if he or she presumes or declares that his or her own action against another player character is successful without giving the other player character the freedom to act on his or her own decisions. This includes but is not limited to:

Forcing actions upon a player.
Failing to allow a player to roleplay their own actions.
Use of items which you haven’t physically obtained.
Acting superhuman.

Taken from https://docs.owlgaming.net/rules/roleplay.html

If a person is speeding, he automatically accepts that he can be pulled over by a cop for speeding. Meaning he indirectly accepts that roleplay, but he can just pay the fine or drive off to get automatically suspected. That would be poor roleplay, but roleplay nonetheless. This way has been done since 2008/2009 when the server started. It has always been relaxed/light roleplay, meaning no roleplay rules are enforced. Which takes me back to your quote 'and if it did exist and was forced out by HQ'. This is not true, ivmp has always been light roleplay, no rules were removed or added for enforcing roleplay. If cases were misjudged based on this 'force roleplay' then that was a mistake.

Together we need to be vigilant about these things. Our stance (hq) about roleplay is to promote and encourage it and has never been different. If cases are misjudged or people are abusing the 'force roleplay' reason then we need to act on it.

You have a point, that's pretty much what I meant. People and even some administrators used to work with this "forcing roleplay" as in the one written in rules (which in fact is similar to powergaming's, but back then was used for the other wrong mean "to force roleplay").

It's mostly misunderstanding, there isn't a whole topic for example that explains these kind of things. It's always on player's capacity to define it however they like, and even administrators don't have a one stand on it but rather different ones which makes them enforce them as they themselves understand it and not as the HQ defined it.

My only suggestion is to make an explanatory section about the rules, maybe define each rule because most players in IV:MP aren't familiar with roleplay servers and have started on their first (speaking of myself, and seen many others probably most IV players).
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Mac Taylor on September 13, 2018, 10:45:14 pm
It's mostly misunderstanding, there isn't a whole topic for example that explains these kind of things. It's always on player's capacity to define it however they like, and even administrators don't have a one stand on it but rather different ones which makes them enforce them as they themselves understand it and not as the HQ defined it.

My only suggestion is to make an explanatory section about the rules, maybe define each rule because most players in IV:MP aren't familiar with roleplay servers and have started on their first (speaking of myself, and seen many others probably most IV players).

Fully agree with this, from the purposes of this topic was also to make an explanation topic for all RP rules, and as we can see changing rules or applying strict rules are not a good idea for now as of our playerbase, we need to promote the RP and make people interested in roleplaying more than grinding money, so I am withdrawing my idea about changing rp rules but would suggest to do as what younes said, A topic explaining all current RP rules made by HQ, it will be more easily when we face such mentality who says where is this rule there is nothing like that in rping etc..
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: about10pandas on September 14, 2018, 03:18:34 am
And then we get some people that speed all day and when they get pulled over, 'I don't want to RP, just give me the ticket' or either evade the scene. Someone reported once because of that and they know who they are.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Kowalski. on September 14, 2018, 10:09:16 am
If that's true...

When you speed or break a traffic law, you automatically agree to roleplay with police officers who roleplay the enforcing of those laws and enforcing those laws, and if you report for forced RP, you'll be the one with administrative repercussions installed, as you have subjected yourself to RP by breaking that traffic law in the first place.

Hope this clears things up to those who didn't apparently know.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: kawashty on September 14, 2018, 01:10:16 pm
I am suggesting to make a rule which forces any player to not avoid any roleplay like saying on /em or something except for valid reasons as reallife reasons but to avoid roleplay for something important ingame...
And another thing people who avoids chases or roleplays by external force (as cutting off the pc power or the router cables or any of those ...etc) which make them crash ingame,those people must be put an eye on them and if they didn't report about there absence reason on discord/forums maybe dealt with admins that would keep people who wills to roleplay and makes other who don't they go away..
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: superh2o on September 14, 2018, 01:34:47 pm
I am suggesting to make a rule which forces any player to not avoid any roleplay like saying on /em or something except for valid reasons as reallife reasons but to avoid roleplay for something important ingame...
And another thing people who avoids chases or roleplays by external force (as cutting off the pc power or the router cables or any of those ...etc) which make them crash ingame,those people must be put an eye on them and if they didn't report about there absence reason on discord/forums maybe dealt with admins that would keep people who wills to roleplay and makes other who don't they go away..
will you personally investigate is it cable or bouter, good god please, if players bail on rp few times just dont interact with them, thats all that should be done.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: kawashty on September 14, 2018, 04:00:26 pm
I am suggesting to make a rule which forces any player to not avoid any roleplay like saying on /em or something except for valid reasons as reallife reasons but to avoid roleplay for something important ingame...
And another thing people who avoids chases or roleplays by external force (as cutting off the pc power or the router cables or any of those ...etc) which make them crash ingame,those people must be put an eye on them and if they didn't report about there absence reason on discord/forums maybe dealt with admins that would keep people who wills to roleplay and makes other who don't they go away..
will you personally investigate is it cable or bouter, good god please, if players bail on rp few times just dont interact with them, thats all that should be done.
So keeping an eye on them is too hard and easily solved by not interacting and roleplaying?
And the main idea if its implemented all players who breaks that rule would be asked about it...
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: superh2o on September 14, 2018, 06:49:43 pm
You dont need rules to rp. You just need normal people.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Mac Taylor on September 14, 2018, 09:28:19 pm
You dont need rules to rp. You just need normal people.

I will agree with you only if we are playing in heavy RP server with "PRO" roleplayers, who got normal minds..and know what RP is and that they are acting like being a real human in every single action..
What we need is a topic from HQ explains all RP rules with HQ's difinetion, and according to this topic all admins/players will roleplay normally without any misunderstanding which turns into argument and bla bla admin deal...
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Younes on September 14, 2018, 10:16:57 pm
You dont need rules to rp. You just need normal people.

Its sad that's the only way and it's even sad that it applies on 90% of the server population.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: Danny Soulson on September 15, 2018, 07:54:00 pm
and if it did exist and was forced out by HQ,
Thank you for creating your own conclusions.

It is a fact. I have been playing IVMP for a long time to understand how things rolled out and sadly that's the truth. I've been told numerous times that you may not force someone to roleplay with you regardless of what the roleplay is. I've been verbally warned by many for forcing someone to roleplay during a traffic stop, so yes that is not just an idea in my mind but rather a fact.
Yep

You dont need rules to rp. You just need normal people.
Also very true the more rules you write the more it becomes annoying, people forget the main point of rp which is having fun

I think ever since the major tax updates and new job systems the RP decreased.
Title: Re: {Discussion} Changes on RP rules
Post by: James Conway on September 15, 2018, 08:57:54 pm
Yep
If those things of 'force roleplay' happens, I want to know about it. You should not be warned or stopped because of this unless you are abusing or powergaming.
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