Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: TheGreasyChopper on November 19, 2019, 07:23:05 pm

Title: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 19, 2019, 07:23:05 pm
Before I start off with the point of this topic, I believe I need to clarify the definitions of a few terms I will be using.
First and most important – Roleplay. I’ll use the Wikipedia article:
“A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game;[1][2] abbreviated RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development”

Roleplaying in SA:MP would mean you assume the Role of your Character and develop him or her and act out the way HE or SHE WOULD. You are NOT your character. So any personal feelings you may have toward someone OOC(Or outside of Roleplay for those who do not recognize OOC) do not matter. If your character never met them or heard of them through RP, he should be indifferent. This is why I believe Metagaming is a vital part of the roleplay process. To put it short – Roleplaying is acting out and developing your character’s actions in a realistic and reasonable way.

Activity – This is NOT the player slots being filled in game. Activity is the interactions between the players. When you go out with your friends IRL to do activities, you interact with them, talk with them, drink and play with them as well as interact with the people around if you are in a public space. To put it short activity is things happening, not people in game.

Powergaming – It has two definitions, both of which are valid. It is either your /me emotes enforcing a certain action on the other participant (e.g. /me punches X in the face, knocking out his teeth and making him unconscious). The other definition would be the play 2 win attitude, which is basically taking part in scenarios with the sole purpose of coming out as a “winner”. To put it in Argonath terminology – it is both “forcing roleplay” and “play2win”.



Now, to start off – you might say that “Argonath is not dead”, “We are active” etc. Yes, there are players In Game. But honestly, whenever I head In Game it feels empty. I’ve had more fun and interactions and seen more activity half a year ago when we had 1-5/200 players. I’m not posting this to trashtalk any groups, admins, HQ or whatnot. My main interest is the good of Argonath, it has always been.

Yes, SA:MP Argonath does have a decent playerbase nowadays. But there is no activity, no interactions between the players. Back in the day, groups and players actually interacted with eachother – providing enjoyable scenarios for all sides involved. Which sadly is something that has not happened in years. People pull guns, kidnap, beat up PD members just for pulling them over for a traffic violation. A recent example would be the situation with the recently elected Mayor of Los Santos. The person who became mayor did so only because they were the only candidate. People simply did not care enough to involve themselves in politics. What happens when they get elected? They start getting kidnapped for whatever reasons and I can only assume is because certain individuals wish to profit off of it.

In all honesty, I believe kidnappings should be monitored and limited as well as regulated like shootouts. I’ve seen my fair share of scenarios where people are being kidnapped for the sake of their tag or group they belong to. Afterward they proceed to get tortured and forced to remain on the scene, despite it being graphic. That is disgusting and graphic roleplay, which should only happen when both sides are okay with it. Very few people would enjoy their character being tortured and killed just because of a tag they wear. This generally made Argonath a rather hostile place for people, because you get bullied and tormented, just because you chose to join a certain group.

Another thing, which I believe is the main issue that lead to the downfall and decrease of the playerbase. The majority of groups at the time(mostly formed by people who were new) based all their roleplay and interactions on the scripts. You have weedfields, meth cooks, black market and notoriety, scripted properties and owning them. During the “good times”, roleplay was all over. You had people like Jcs and his Immigration Patrol. There was no script for showing someone your passport, nor were there any laws against that. It was people having fun and interacting with eachother. Mexican gangs roleplaying as illegals were running and hiding from them. They had scripted passports, but simply roleplayed. They wrote stories. The majority of the remaining playerbase does not engage in roleplay. You no longer have mafia families opening their Clubs, hosting different groups, cops, clans and engaging in club roleplay. You do not see roleplay races – it is mostly admin hosted events which are “go here > countdown > race > announce winner > give money”, most of which is in public chat or admin announcements. Instead of having it all being roleplayed, having people contact eachother IC and organize the race, inviting people with SMS and calls.

You don’t have people interacting with eachother. Everyone is driving around, sometimes growing weed, sometimes getting in a cop chase. They do not care for the consequences for their characters. They’ll die, respawn, wait out some time and do it again. It is insane.

One of the things that contributed to this is the division in a few major groups. Sure, you can say that they are different groups and allies, associates whatnot. But we all know that there are only three criminal groups and they have been around for the last 2-3 years. You may give out different names, you may act as allies, but the structure is the same. The mentality is the same. You have those groups driving around in their cars, fully armed and armored up, drive up to the weedfield, plant, wait the hours, harvest – go sell and buy the next property. They buy properties they never open to the public, they never use for anything else but a rendezvous point.

I can continue listing, but it’d come down to knit picking. The main problem is – there is little to none activity in Argonath SA:MP and there is even less incentive to join the server. Why would I go InGame, when there is no place I can go to roleplay at(Like GS9 for example)? I can go grind the script, truck, plant weed, mine and then go off. But this is something I can do in SinglePlayer as well with the help of a few mods. I do not go on SA:MP to play alone, I go to interact with others and roleplay.

My question goes out to everyone. What can we do to bring activity back? What groups and businesses would you guys like to see in order to encourage you to roleplay and interact with the others? What will be required for all those year-long OOC based group conflicts to end, for the sake of Argonath’s future? What turned us into script-dependent zombies who cannot use our imagination and what can we do to encourage that?

One thing I will address before it is stated. I recognize that I disagree with some people OOC, I recognize I’ve had conflicts in the past. But that is my problem. Not my character’s. Whenever I go In Game, I am my character and I should not be limited and ignored based on who I am OOC. Feel free to trashtalk me in DMs or Discord, IG PMs and public chat, you have the right to dislike me. But think about what comes out of it. Nothing. Just because you had issues with someone in the far away or recent past does not mean you should ignore his characters or automatically be hostile to him. We are all here for one reason, and that’s Argonath. Anything else is additional flavor.

So for the sake of Argonath – bury all hatches, start off something new and original, involve others and let us be a healthy and friendly community, rather than just talk about being one.


tl;dr:
My question to all is - what can we do to promote activity and get people actually interacting with eachother in a way enjoyable for all sides involved?

Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Stefos on November 19, 2019, 07:56:18 pm
 :app:


Quote
You don’t have people interacting with eachother. Everyone is driving around, sometimes growing weed, sometimes getting in a cop chase. They do not care for the consequences for their characters. They’ll die, respawn, wait out some time and do it again. It is insane

This is the state of the current Argonath SA:MP server, no one can disagree with that.

There's no point in playing a ROLEPLAY server, if all you're going to do is come in-game, copbait for a few minutes until you get pulled over, evade and then end up in a shootout.

There's no point of playing, if you're gonna come in-game at 3:00AM, that's THREE AM if you're gonna just plant 1000 Cannabis Seeds to sell them to your bosses.

There's no point of playing if you're going to talk shit on public chat. There's a toiletbowl on discord for a reason.

There's no point of coming online, if you're gonna go AFK at a spot to grind hours to be the top on the panel.

ROLEPLAY ALREADY, PLEASE!

I'm saying all of these because it started to become an Argonath habit, it's extremely annoying believe it or not. It's a personal experience.



Quote
My question to all is - what can we do to promote activity and get people actually interacting with eachother in a way enjoyable for all sides involved?

My answer to this question is very simple.

If the things stated above annoy you, and you want to change the current state of Argonath, you can help.

Form your own group, get a few buddies, recruit some people IN CHARACTER.

Start roleplaying with each other, start interacting with other groups, make allies, make enemies, do whatever that fits your group/family better. DO NOT START USELESS SHOOTOUTS. Remember, you're a new group. Do not give people thoughts that you're just here to deathmatch.

Make a topic on forums, whenever you feel it's needed. Meet the requirements for a scripted /group.
Do not ask for a scripted group, nor make a topic if you're gonna abandon it less than two weeks later.



Small suggestion for ALREADY existing groups:

I'd suggest putting chat on your screenshots, hide the OOC chats if you're not going to use a program to write the chat.

Why I suggest this? Because if players that are active on forums, yet not active in-game, can see that there's a group that at least supports roleplay and that could lead them into coming back.

In my opinion, adding a few pics without a small line explaining what your character is at least doing is not entertaining at all.. BOOOORIIING.

If you're roleplaying with others, add a small "backstory" of what's going on in the picture.
It's not necessary to add it ON the picture, you can just make a spoiler and write it above the image.

Whatsoever, just a small suggestion. Not forcing you to do this.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Badandy on November 19, 2019, 08:05:27 pm
I just started a new character who lives as a "simple" man in Red County. He's not a fit man and he's middle aged, around 40 years old. He lives in a simple home who owns a few vehicles. A pickup truck, a sanchez and a skimmer plane. The plane was owned by his father who gave it to him when he passed away.

The point I bring this up is, I don't own an infernus or shamal. I also won't be using weapons like M4 or AK-47. My weapons would be like a country rifle, shotgun, and colt 45. These are items that would make sense for a character like this. I don't play here to win, or to earn money or whatever, I play to roleplay a character, to build a story with interactions with others.

The last point I have is people need to roleplay fear. If I'm going to get into a shootout with police (it's unlikely but who knows in the future), I'm not going to shoot til I'm dead. There's going to be a point in the heat of it all where you have to give up. Giving up or losing isn't a bad thing, it makes the roleplay better. In a way with these weed fields, it feels like a TDM with police and criminals.

If you don't want to roleplay then why play on a roleplay server? Also roleplay a realistic character.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on November 19, 2019, 10:04:14 pm
Players should actually come close to other players instead of afking or hunting properties here and there and complain about roleplay not existing, what's too funny to me is that there are too many people in that kind of mentality where they don't even approach anyone or anything except for the main chat looking for an argument and they complain about the lack of roleplay and lack of roleplay diversity and creativity. This one is for the forum warriors.

Now the people that actually are roleplaying, there is also a majority that hunts others for their nametags, i.e. they see them from a distance, they read the name of the person they either get scared and avoid that person or go after him to cause harm to him (whether it's a kill or just a regular annoyance). There's also another kind that goes up to rob a weed field with everyone having masks on, the enemy group avenges the robbery and goes after that group (or hunt them down in cops case when criminals grow weed with masks on and go after them based on their nametags) although they only saw their masks. That's just stupidity, plain and simple.
We don't need rules to prevent that, we don't need punishments, we don't need scripts and we don't need admins to enforce it, players need to take the initiative themselves and act in a proper manner and sense during the roleplay scenarios and when someone sees that quality of roleplay, he will try to catch up and so will the new players. You don't need to have friends or a clique in game to reach these things you can watch other people how they do stuff and you learn from them hell think how'd you act in real life if it were to really happen to you in reality and what possibilities you have to respond to any kind of situation in the real world.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Thomas_A on November 19, 2019, 10:58:46 pm
What's gonna wake this server up or perhaps even revive it is a number of veterans or experienced people who're able to run criminal or legal groups, businesses and not just for a short period of time, but they'd have to keep it interesting for a long period of time. In order to do that you'd need other people, other groups, their leaders and members. What has happend over the years over and over is that groups have been opened with inexperienced leadership who're only able to come up with repetitive, boring and unattractive roleplay scenarios which most likely only lead to gun fights. Yes of course, these veterans are now old enough and they don't have any interest to the community anymore, but there are sure experienced players that are able to take the intiative and run a project. For that, you'd need to have a server, where the person feels like he's welcomed and where he has the oppurtunity to build something.
Would anyone try to create something at this point? That's a rare occurance because It's a risk people don't want to take, start something and feel like they've completely wasted their time in the end. Right now, It takes much more than just a slight improvement in playercount, It's the overall mentality that needs to change with all this aswell.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Shorty. on November 19, 2019, 10:59:14 pm
All of what's said above is correct, i'd like to add we don't need the must win mentality.

In my opinion, Mafia groups should be limited based on their work and activity, because everyone want to be a criminal because of the profit and powers they get or can get.

We need gangs, but we lack of players who can actually start a gang rivalries.

Legal side should be supported by the government/HQ so we can have criminals, citizens, and legal employees, how to implement that? by start funding the legal departments, not to grind cash, BUT TO MOTIVATE THE EMPLOYEES so new comers may actually aim for driving schools, or CMB administrating as a job, same goes for firemen, medics, and police duties.

Huge penalties should be also applied to criminals, so they can actually consider their illegal actions before commit  them ( Instead of just dying n move on, they should be sued )


Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Stivi on November 20, 2019, 12:20:32 am
Metagaming really did a number on us
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Aca on November 20, 2019, 01:00:11 am
noobs which made it into admin/helper positions   :lol:
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Bogomil on November 20, 2019, 07:22:22 am
Another topic lol. Maybe people are just too busy to play games nowadays?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Chase on November 20, 2019, 07:26:21 am
Kalcor killed SAMP, which in turn killed Argonath.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: badboy.dhia on November 20, 2019, 12:50:36 pm
a killer  :war:
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Lonewolf on November 20, 2019, 04:54:30 pm
noobs which made it into admin/helper positions   :lol:
People just can't stop trolling when there wants to be a serious discussion, and unfortunately you are not the only one around here who does it when they give total 0 fucks about a situation, but I am not going to point fingers now. On the other hand, if you were not trolling, the only problem you see is the admin team? Have you ever looked at the players themselves, have you ever looked at yourself? What can you do to not kill this server even more, as a player, if you really love it and want to help it? The admins doesn't affect the gameplay, they just monitor the gameplay to mantain a playable atmosphere. If you really want something to happen, you should make the change, not the admins. Bring your friends to play with you, to interact with others and not just sit in your shell with all the money you have and cars, properties, guns etc, and say that you are bored or that the server is dying (Khm's argument already covered this part), the server is dying because of YOU.

Try to do something for the others, not for yourself, or just sit back and do nothing, like you always did.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Aca on November 20, 2019, 05:52:31 pm

Try to do something for the others, not for yourself, or just sit back and do nothing, like you always did.

I’m here for a decade, I earned shit I’ve been enjoying, it was not given to me just like that.

I’m not really gonna put any effort more, even I was more than ready to, why?
Because I, as a veteran (and I’m not the only one on this) was disrespected. By who? Not going to point fingers and start eventual shitstorm, they will recognize themselves.

My point is, show respect to your veterans, people who stayed on Argonath for years - no matter the situation, or else, you won’t pass well.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Lonewolf on November 20, 2019, 07:00:00 pm

My point is, show respect to your veterans, people who stayed on Argonath for years - no matter the situation, or else, you won’t pass well.
Yeah, and this is what I was talking about, thanks for proving my points. Selfishness. I don't care if you are a veteran or not, you don't deserve a special treatment, or maybe you do, because you think about yourself to be someone special. I will respect people that are showing respect.

you won’t pass well.
This is the reason why no one stays around the server anymore? They don't respect toxicity and trollish behavior so they won't pass well through the server and will just move on? Seems to be a true thing.

You are making yourself more and more a bad exemple, than I did, with every comment you make.

I am done with this. I hope some of you understood what this was all about, and that I am not pointing fingers only to Aca.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Aca on November 20, 2019, 07:54:12 pm
When you spend as much or even the half of years I (and every other veteran) did, you might understand what I am saying  :lol:
I don’t give a fuck to look as a good example to you, to whom I wanted to, I was and always will be a good example  ;)
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Stivi on November 21, 2019, 01:35:05 am

My point is, show respect to your veterans, people who stayed on Argonath for years - no matter the situation, or else, you won’t pass well.
Yeah, and this is what I was talking about, thanks for proving my points. Selfishness. I don't care if you are a veteran or not, you don't deserve a special treatment, or maybe you do, because you think about yourself to be someone special. I will respect people that are showing respect.
He said to show respect, not give them special treatment. Such as when an admin is oblivious to the written and unwritten rules of the server a veteran learns from experience. Or when a veteran knows certain commands better than the helper team, because the new guys never had to endure the pain and sadness of not having /piss. I had to teach players about /bjhost, but in all honesty meth, weed and blackjack are probably the best scripts we have. ( aesthetically, imo )
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Bruce. on November 21, 2019, 12:25:12 pm
Lmaom..such tryhards. Argonath is not the only server dying. Stop giving a fuck about SAMP already. Go move to better games. A lot of servers are loosing playerbase, noone gives a fuck about roleplay in SAMP anymore.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Thom on November 21, 2019, 12:42:01 pm
Lmaom..such tryhards. Argonath is not the only server dying. Stop giving a fuck about SAMP already. Go move to better games. A lot of servers are loosing playerbase, noone gives a fuck about roleplay in SAMP anymore.

Save us then some breath and start acting like you say we should act.

__

On the topic, what I'd like to confirm is when I did the camping in the woods roleplay last year I've felt the server more alive with 3/200 than I do now with 15/200 I can totally see your point!
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sheila on November 21, 2019, 02:08:24 pm
Legal side should be supported by the government/HQ so we can have criminals, citizens, and legal employees, how to implement that? by start funding the legal departments, not to grind cash, BUT TO MOTIVATE THE EMPLOYEES so new comers may actually aim for driving schools, or CMB administrating as a job, same goes for firemen, medics, and police duties.

Just a heads up and it's a bit early to announce anything yet but I will say that there's something in the works for this exact kind of thing already :)

And HQ are also showing lots of support so far with this and other things currently in the works, looks promising, stay tuned!
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Huntsman on November 21, 2019, 06:32:32 pm
The server died because people who knew how to keep it alive left. The old playerbase grew up, got lives, cant play. Due to the games age, there is no influx of new players. If you look at other communitirs, they mostly survive on regulars and dont get much new players.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Acika on November 21, 2019, 07:09:06 pm
The server died because people who knew how to keep it alive left. The old playerbase grew up, got lives, cant play. Due to the games age, there is no influx of new players. If you look at other communitirs, they mostly survive on regulars and dont get much new players. of
Some of us are still around to laugh at the nonsense people are writing. I do agree with you on this, but this being the third reason. I'm sure most of us play another game in free time. Which basically means if Argonath was worth the time, we would still hop on. Be it daily or for a Sunday night brawl.

I'll work this question backward, so i'll move to the second reason now.
Like it or not, beef is what keeps the server alive. With changes to lag shoot(removal) and with one side being clearly more skilled and better than the other it was a perfect setup for salty players/hackers to rise because noone gave a single fuck. Hackers ruined CS1.6 and the experience for others. Same can be said here with the exception that here it could have been stopped.

All the above would have never had happened that early if it wasnt for the one and only real reason everything went down the drain real quick. It's the famous three words and it's not "I love you". Rock Stars Five.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Danny_Leo on November 21, 2019, 08:13:53 pm
You all do realise that game is 15 years old, SAMP and Argonath itself just a few years less.
There aren't enough new kids to keep it all up, current generation grew up with GTA V, and is probably out there playing it online.
Maybe Argonath would last for longer if there wasn't for broken RS5 release and account reset that drove off many veterans, maybe it'd last longer if it wasn't for so many feuds among community members, leaders and groups.
But that's an awful lot of maybes.
Argonath needs to move on and focus on making quality server and content in new games.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on November 21, 2019, 10:21:18 pm
"Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?"

Time. Inevitable.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Nathan on November 22, 2019, 04:55:56 am
I wanted to think about this question for several days before emotionally responding. I didn't want a long answer, but here we are. I honestly believe long threads don't amount to any results, being the person who used to put up ultra-long threads of manifestos and ideas that I had. That being said...

I think you can try actual break up the question into two parts:

First, what killed Argonath RPG SA:MP? Well, let me break it down on the top three reasons I believe that caused the death of SA:MP.

- The terrible method of handling user data (or lack of) during the migration to RS5

- The lack of adequate staff, leadership, and guidance

- Age of the players, age of the game, age of the SA:MP community, the developer support of SA:MP client


Horrible handling of user data during RS5 migration

To give some context here, I believe we should be aware of why the start of RS5 ended up being a shit show. In the "old world" of RS4 and below, user credentials and information were stored in flat files. For those who aren't CS majors, this is very bad. Think of a flat-file, mostly being a large text file. For login, the server would need to process the entire file every single time to get anything done. This would mean as the server would grow, login times, and other things that required interaction with these files would take slower and slower and slower. Eventually, and especially at the scale of Argonath, this would become completely unacceptable. This would mean you would need to wait for 5 to 30 seconds to log in. 5 to 30 seconds to do a transaction. 5 to 30 seconds to enter a property. You get the idea.

The solution to this is to use databases. Databases are great because they have an index, and you can easily query tasks without needing to go through the file every single time. In layman terms, this results in faster login times, faster ways to handle transactions, and, most importantly, easier to manage than a single file.

So great, you're thinking, this should have made RS5 remarkable. Well, not so fast. Unfortunately, due to the way the flat files were set up, there was no easy way to migrate the existing user data from a flat file to a database. Database Administrations get paid six-figure salaries to solve these issues, and this would mean someone would need to figure out a way to do this. Someone would need to spend full-time jobs' worth of work to try to figure out a way to migrate data from a flat file to a database.

And because of this challenge, the decision was made to start fresh. It would only be more straightforward and granted most people were slowly getting tired of the server dynamics, and some wanted to push for a change to give everyone a new fair chance to start fresh.

This decision, though hard, was made without any input from players.

Now imagine from a user's point of view. Facebook decides that they no longer want to use their databases and want to move on to something else. They tell everyone to start over and create a new account. What would the reaction be? Well, probably the same as it was with RS5. Exactly half of the player base left, and the ones who stayed became bitter to having to grind all over again. So in Facebook's case, to not lose users, they would work out the hard problem and make sure that no user gets left behind.

Argonath didn't (and I'd argue still doesn't) have the same technical and financial support like Facebook or any company. So you can tell the decision to have people start fresh was not made because devs were lazy, but because it's a severe problem to solve and Argonath didn't have the resources to handle it.

What went wrong, I feel, was that the decision came last minute, without any proper explanation, and without letting people somehow migrate their data over to the new database/modular world. I feel what would have made sense was to give the player base know on what's happening, and what actions they have available to them. The leadership didn't do that.

As a result, players felt left out and fucked over on their years of work without a proper explanation. Therefore, half left.

Solution: There should have been better communication and community involvement to tackle the database migration issue.


Lack of adequate staff, leadership, and guidance

Argonath went through several eras of staff and leadership. Some staff members were great, hard-working, and showed a great attitude. Other staff members abused their power, weren't helpful, and brought in more damage to the community. If I can summarize, people are people, and people suck in general.

I feel this problem stems from top to bottom. At the top, we have a server owner who we haven't heard from in several years. Below him, we have a community leader for SA:MP who doesn't have time for the community anymore. There have been many documented cases of abuse from his end and him only just steering the ship in any way he likes without the input of others. And then, after doing that, he decides to delegate the rest of the work to the division leaders and remain silent. This isn't an emotional response but just an observation of working closely with him.

That being said, being a division leader is literally the worst job you can have. Imagine being a manager at a national chain restaurant. Yeah, you have staff under you, and you are responsible for them. You are capable of making sure your restaurant is still profitable and that the place looks clean. But at the end of the day, you never truly make decisions. They come down from the top. From the VPs above you. You'll never have the ability to make any meaningful change, and in reality, your job is to make sure business runs as usual. Now imagine having VPs and CEOs who are not there anymore. They're just absent. So you think to yourself, "well, maybe this would be a good time to make some change." So you start adding your flavor to things, start adding new menu items, etc. And the VPs all of sudden call you and tell you to stop changing things, that you need permission to get any changes done, and to stay in your lane. So you decide that you'll be a good boy and return things to usual. But then you notice that your customers aren't happy with the "usual," so you start doing some minor changes. This pisses the VPs off even more, and they tell you that you're fire. So last 10+ years you spent working at a restaurant come to an end just because you decided to try something new.

The same can be said about division leaders. They're glorified restaurant managers. The moment you step on the toes of the community leader, you will be turning in your resignation.

Well then, you think, why not just have a different community leader? Well, good luck. The current person in charge will never resign from his position because he feels he's been doing an impressive job, and if you're trying to aim that way, you will be kicked out of the server, accused of being a crazy person, and that you keep shaking the boat.

But if I'm honest, I honestly think the current division leaders and webmasters are doing an excellent job at trying again. But I feel their pain when it comes to making any groundbreaking changes. They'll never have the ability to do it as long as the current community leader is in charge.

Then, there is also the problem of staff inadequacy. Each staff member interprets rules differently. This results in unfair and biased punishments (or lack of) being thrown down on the players. Staff members don't have the proper support and training needed to get promoted and to become better at their job. You get promoted purely on how active you are within the community, how much punishments you throw, and how active you respond to reports. That's about it. I've seen good people get passed over promotion simply because they didn't respond to reports fast enough. I've also seen folks getting promoted solely because they have a good relationship with the staff above them.

Then, if I'm honest, there was a way to buy your way to become staff. This is what I did. I bought my way to become staff. I literally paid Teddy $100/month to get promoted by Andeey to Admin, and from there, I used my friendship to get promoted to the Senior level, get $100 million in in-game cash. I was full-on corrupt, and the players knew it. I punished people because I wanted to, and I was called out on it. So I bullshitted my way around to make sure I don't get fired. I got cocky and started to aim higher, for the division lead and then community leader. This was when my downfall came. I intended to make the community better. But I also just wanted to get more and more power. The result was roughly $800 spent to become staff and do whatever the hell I wanted with no consequences.

As a result, players were punished unfairly, and without proper reason, division leaders were limited to their power to make sure they don't rock the boat too hard, and players left because they saw the full-on corruption and absence from the staff team.

Solution: Bring in an active owner and community leader to lead the community forward. Someone who goes out of their way to keep the line of communication open with the players. Someone who understands players. Someone who will be dedicated to the community and will do everything in their power to grow and protect it.



Age of the players, age of the game, age of the SA:MP community, the developer support of SA:MP client


This is the last one and hopefully the shortest one.

First, when I started playing on Argonath in May 2009, I was 15 years old, was in high school, had plenty of free time. Now, at 25, I'm working full time, married, and have a kid on the way. I don't have as much free time as I used to. Time is crucial to me, and I will cut out anything that doesn't matter to me anymore.

I feel this story applies to most of the veterans here. We're old. We have lives. Our priorities changed.

On top of this, GTA:SA is old. Yes, there are communities where old games thrive (take a look at OSRS), but they usually don't bring in as much, if any, newer players. On top of this, the SA:MP community by itself is pretty old, too, and because of this, the developer recently said that he considers the project dead too.

It's a sad reality, but it's the truth. We need to embrace the fact that we can't just pull strings of nostalgia to get people to come. I feel our only solution is to attract existing players to come here to remain here as we approach our imminent death.

Solution: We try to bring in existing SA:MP players to our community but also be aware that at some time, we need to move on to other newer games.

So, in short (or tl;dr), communication should have been more stressed during significant changes by the leadership. The community leader needs to be replaced with someone who is active and can adequately guide the staff team to be better versions of themselves. We need to figure out our exit plan on how we grow the Argonath community in general instead of pulling strings on trying to get people to come back to try SA:MP again.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: jNewtonik on November 23, 2019, 03:45:37 am
@Nathan I took some time to read your whole post and I must say thank you for making such a constructive criticism, you made me to understand a part
of Argonaths history that was blank for me as I'm a newer blood and had no clue for what was going before...

Then, if I'm honest, there was a way to buy your way to become staff. This is what I did. I bought my way to become staff. I literally paid Teddy $100/month to get promoted by Andeey to Admin, and from there, I used my friendship to get promoted to the Senior level, get $100 million in in-game cash. I was full-on corrupt, and the players knew it. I punished people because I wanted to, and I was called out on it. So I bullshitted my way around to make sure I don't get fired. I got cocky and started to aim higher, for the division lead and then community leader. This was when my downfall came. I intended to make the community better. But I also just wanted to get more and more power. The result was roughly $800 spent to become staff and do whatever the hell I wanted with no consequences.
I just felt ashamed for this part, promotion shouldn't be based on donations or paychecks but only by the user/player effort that he puts into making our playground -
better place for all of us, and I'm ashamed only because in my personal opinion you were one of those guys who deserved to be promoted, but deffintely not by the way you described.

Its okay tho... I do respect that you were honest and that you understand it was something that shouldn't be done like that, I'm not going to ask how and why those things happend
but I just have the hope that all the mistakes you described can teach us something and wont be repeated in the future.

Thank you!
Sincerely Billy.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Nathan on November 24, 2019, 01:11:26 am
@Nathan I took some time to read your whole post and I must say thank you for making such a constructive criticism, you made me to understand a part
of Argonaths history that was blank for me as I'm a newer blood and had no clue for what was going before...

Then, if I'm honest, there was a way to buy your way to become staff. This is what I did. I bought my way to become staff. I literally paid Teddy $100/month to get promoted by Andeey to Admin, and from there, I used my friendship to get promoted to the Senior level, get $100 million in in-game cash. I was full-on corrupt, and the players knew it. I punished people because I wanted to, and I was called out on it. So I bullshitted my way around to make sure I don't get fired. I got cocky and started to aim higher, for the division lead and then community leader. This was when my downfall came. I intended to make the community better. But I also just wanted to get more and more power. The result was roughly $800 spent to become staff and do whatever the hell I wanted with no consequences.
I just felt ashamed for this part, promotion shouldn't be based on donations or paychecks but only by the user/player effort that he puts into making our playground -
better place for all of us, and I'm ashamed only because in my personal opinion you were one of those guys who deserved to be promoted, but deffintely not by the way you described.

Its okay tho... I do respect that you were honest and that you understand it was something that shouldn't be done like that, I'm not going to ask how and why those things happend
but I just have the hope that all the mistakes you described can teach us something and wont be repeated in the future.

Thank you!
Sincerely Billy.


I think honesty is key here. As much as it might hurt me, truth needs to be free. That being said, today I found out that there we other players who managed to do the same stuff that I did so looks like I'm not the only one here.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Kenji on November 24, 2019, 01:46:38 am
@Nathan I took some time to read your whole post and I must say thank you for making such a constructive criticism, you made me to understand a part
of Argonaths history that was blank for me as I'm a newer blood and had no clue for what was going before...

Then, if I'm honest, there was a way to buy your way to become staff. This is what I did. I bought my way to become staff. I literally paid Teddy $100/month to get promoted by Andeey to Admin, and from there, I used my friendship to get promoted to the Senior level, get $100 million in in-game cash. I was full-on corrupt, and the players knew it. I punished people because I wanted to, and I was called out on it. So I bullshitted my way around to make sure I don't get fired. I got cocky and started to aim higher, for the division lead and then community leader. This was when my downfall came. I intended to make the community better. But I also just wanted to get more and more power. The result was roughly $800 spent to become staff and do whatever the hell I wanted with no consequences.
I just felt ashamed for this part, promotion shouldn't be based on donations or paychecks but only by the user/player effort that he puts into making our playground -
better place for all of us, and I'm ashamed only because in my personal opinion you were one of those guys who deserved to be promoted, but deffintely not by the way you described.

Its okay tho... I do respect that you were honest and that you understand it was something that shouldn't be done like that, I'm not going to ask how and why those things happend
but I just have the hope that all the mistakes you described can teach us something and wont be repeated in the future.

Thank you!
Sincerely Billy.


I think honesty is key here. As much as it might hurt me, truth needs to be free. That being said, today I found out that there we other players who managed to do the same stuff that I did so looks like I'm not the only one here.
since the “honestly” is the key here, why you dont tell us who you’re referring 2?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on November 24, 2019, 10:57:57 am
@Nathan I took some time to read your whole post and I must say thank you for making such a constructive criticism, you made me to understand a part
of Argonaths history that was blank for me as I'm a newer blood and had no clue for what was going before...

Then, if I'm honest, there was a way to buy your way to become staff. This is what I did. I bought my way to become staff. I literally paid Teddy $100/month to get promoted by Andeey to Admin, and from there, I used my friendship to get promoted to the Senior level, get $100 million in in-game cash. I was full-on corrupt, and the players knew it. I punished people because I wanted to, and I was called out on it. So I bullshitted my way around to make sure I don't get fired. I got cocky and started to aim higher, for the division lead and then community leader. This was when my downfall came. I intended to make the community better. But I also just wanted to get more and more power. The result was roughly $800 spent to become staff and do whatever the hell I wanted with no consequences.
I just felt ashamed for this part, promotion shouldn't be based on donations or paychecks but only by the user/player effort that he puts into making our playground -
better place for all of us, and I'm ashamed only because in my personal opinion you were one of those guys who deserved to be promoted, but deffintely not by the way you described.

Its okay tho... I do respect that you were honest and that you understand it was something that shouldn't be done like that, I'm not going to ask how and why those things happend
but I just have the hope that all the mistakes you described can teach us something and wont be repeated in the future.

Thank you!
Sincerely Billy.


I think honesty is key here. As much as it might hurt me, truth needs to be free. That being said, today I found out that there we other players who managed to do the same stuff that I did so looks like I'm not the only one here.
since the “honestly” is the key here, why you dont tell us who you’re referring 2?
Yes please, i like transparency as well.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Haythem on November 24, 2019, 11:33:32 am
Mate, just like the others said, there's tons of games out there to grind and enjoy rather than coming to a ghost town and doing nothing.
Fivem is now dominating this genre and there will a new game client for red dead redemption online. There is no point in grinding in this game anymore.
Upgrade.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hubbestubbe on November 24, 2019, 01:37:55 pm
As you may  have noticed, neither me or Goobii have involved ourselves into these "what killed argo" topics. We cant really find anything constructive in them and we are too busy with looking at what we do today, tomorrow and in the future.

I dont know what you do when you play, but I surround myself by roleplayers and several different RP scenarios occur. Having a good OOC relationship with your enemy makes it even better. And sure, some people drive around without a plan (like people always did), but I for sure know people that are elated and passionate about their groups and its roleplay.

I dont know why people always think everything was so great a few years ago, it wasnt much better, and not much worse either. To me it feels like people are just making their problems up, just go IG and enjoy the game and RP with people instead. Its just a game,  there's no reason to sit on the forum and be all negative.

If you still feel that the server is an inactive shithole then there is plenty of other games too! Dont waste your time on it if you feel like it doesnt meet your standards.

With that said, we are open for criticism, but we want it constructive. Speak out clearly what you want changed and how you want it changed, and we might take it up with HQ in a meeting.

Regards
Hubert Stubert
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on November 24, 2019, 01:44:31 pm
 So to summarize the replies so far, I understand that people are just "used" to the lack of Roleplay and wish to continue in the way we currently are, in the status quo? I came unto a topic recently, which vouched for Argonath to lose the "RPG" part of the name. And a lot of people agree with it. Is Argo officially a non-roleplay server, in which you just go with the flow or head to the door?

 My main idea for the topic was to find a way to encourage roleplay like it was back in the day, but from the response of the majority I understand that they do not want that?


PS: To address Hubbe's reply. The "Good relations with your enemies". I've been preaching for that for years, and have tried to suggest on numerous occasions that a system is made to regulate group warfare, in order to avoid ongoing OOC conflicts which in turn only lead to toxicity. So far 3 HQs have changed since that, and I'm yet to receive feedback on the idea.

I do not feel the server is an inactive shithole, but as others have stated too, I feel it rather "empty" in a way that there are no activities I can parttake in. I've been around for long enough to know that the situation was much better 3-4 years ago(Maybe peak when Teddy was leading it). You had different RP groups, different scenarios, you had active civilian and non-criminal groups. I do not wish to leave for other games, I've been loyal to Argonath since day one. Perhaps that Argo is the one that died, while the new one is something I just have to suck it up and adjust to?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: psyron on November 24, 2019, 01:55:53 pm
dont mean to be toxic but I WANT ARGO FIVEM!! and so are my friends!!! OR MAYBE REDM?? OR MAYBE RP SERVERS FOR OTHER GAMES?? WHY ONLY SAMP?? THERE IS NO FUTURE PLEASE UNDERSTAND. I LOVE THIS COMMUNITY AND I WANT IT TO THRIVE LIKE U ALL DO.

not gonna lie i love these popcorn topics though. peace
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: [HR]JAMIE on April 09, 2020, 07:29:43 pm
The way I see it there is one main Issue here and Here is My Solution

Not enough players finding/actively playing the server -  Samps old, Get over it, I've had and will continue to have Great times On Argonath because it Hasn't Changed, It will always maintain its Enjoy-ability, As long as there's Players that Want and Long for Roleplay Situations. You could increase players by all different means, You could expose the server in a Youtube video, stream, you could make argonath beats or music if ur into that, It could be as little as Messaging someone on a discord server about it or in a different game, and the best solution of all, telling your friends to come join and starting your own groups and businesses around the friendship, theres unlimited possibilities, I'm just saying that sometimes you think the problem is much bigger than it really is, most times out of 10, being Negative about certain things (which you see fairly often in the Community) stops you from seeing the easy/good solution or from fixing the problem at all, let alone making it worse. I also am no Argo Saint, I play often enough, but atm for me with Quarantine i'm going nuts on all these different games I want to play (Argonath being one of them), I know once i get to focus a good amount of my energy toward Argo again i'l be making YT videos as i did in the past and ngl the views on them weren't bad for a channel with like 14 subs at the time xD. Some of the Replies in this Topic reminded me of what I had lost, and it was my character, It was like I was playing it how I would play singleplayer, You dont have any Attachment to Carl other than the fact that you control his Movement and "some" actions. Definitely Made me realise the error in my ways, In a way Your Character is An attachment of yourself, but Is not you, which is the beauty of it, You can be whatever you wanna be!

You could Argue that the issue i've listed above is the Only Issue that Argonath Faces, To correct that I'd Say its the Most Important Issue Right now, And with this issue out of the way, the Community can then start to shape and curve its way to a new Positive Direction Steering clear of all the Past Mistakes, Ideally.

Now if I were to go in Depth not only to fully answer the issue above but go into what needs to be changed and whats needs to be talked about ig I'd be here for a few hours longer but I'l save myself the Pain for another time since I don't see anything too bad ig other than having pretty limited options to take part in, and Of course I have ideas on how Argonath could change and be great in Every way, but If i share them now it doesn't really do much, so I want to wait until the server is Exposed, again, Ideally. For now I feel like this Point is the only one worth Discussing. For the most part we frequently run into Script Complications whenever I bring an "Ideal" idea up, so Instead of Keyboard Warrioring on the Forums hop on Argonath and start RP'ing and if you want to hurl ideas around, play the game naturally and you might start to Brew some cool ideas for stuff, if you do, write it down, make a word document and type down every idea you think will benefit the game and eventually if everyone is doing that, there will be plenty of solutions for all different types of things. You can say this is far fetched you can have doubts and sh*t but, I've never hated argonath and still see it in the same light I always did, I just feel like Nobody knows what Samp is unless they happened to see one of the 10 "big" videos made about it on yt (In English) or through friends/family, in other words its not common knowledge that San andreas for PC has a Multiplayer client where thousands of people still play and where Argonath is Mainly Found. What I know for sure is that Players are looking for English RP Samp servers because alot of them are dying out or dead, but people dont join dying servers, so If we can just expose the server even A little bit We can expect others who already play samp to join as activity rises.

We just need players who actually care about RP and focus that as their main goal/priority when they log onto Argonath RPG, but I will Agree its hard to find such People in this day and age, but believe me they're still out there.

Ty for reading its a bit all over the place but I want to see the Argo Community succeed, Let me know if u agree/disagree? and why. Open for Constructive criticism :)))


 
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on April 09, 2020, 10:00:21 pm
its not in our hands man let it go
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on April 09, 2020, 10:38:07 pm
It actually is in everyone's hands. Yes SA:MP as a mod is dying, yes there are problems within the community, yes the current playerbase is almost 0, yes the scripts aren't perfect and aren't that user-friendly and no one can deny that however, we used to play in much worse environment, we used to play in rather broken script. Many terrible people came and went and many good people did the same, players however are what makes the server playable. Players make the environment, players bring players, players create rp scenarios not scripts and not admins, players create fun activities between other players, players sadly make players go aswell with the constant bickering, players get fed up from others players too and forget that they can work things around instead of just giving up. There are plenty of options and things that are beyond imagination to be done but it's within the hands of players to bring them or no. If there's nothing to be done in game then create a scenario to do and call your friends to participate in it. Ultimately, it is in our hands.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: [HR]JAMIE on April 09, 2020, 10:51:53 pm
It actually is in everyone's hands. Yes SA:MP as a mod is dying, yes there are problems within the community, yes the current playerbase is almost 0, yes the scripts aren't perfect and aren't that user-friendly and no one can deny that however, we used to play in much worse environment, we used to play in rather broken script. Many terrible people came and went and many good people did the same, players however are what makes the server playable. Players make the environment, players bring players, players create rp scenarios not scripts and not admins, players create fun activities between other players, players sadly make players go aswell with the constant bickering, players get fed up from others players too and forget that they can work things around instead of just giving up. There are plenty of options and things that are beyond imagination to be done but it's within the hands of players to bring them or no. If there's nothing to be done in game then create a scenario to do and call your friends to participate in it. Ultimately, it is in our hands.


Couldn't have said it better
Respect.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 10, 2020, 06:27:25 am
samp dies >> mud : exceeding playerlimit
kek
first "ppl have exams once they're over, we'll gain our playerbase back"
now, "samp is dying" stop finding excuses but rather accept it that Argonath RPG has died, but it could return if the previous groups which were the main reason of activity, but people lost interest. The point Argo is at rn is where it can not come back from, no one likes to play on a server with 0 players. What would you do, grind meth and be the only player online? or rp with bots? I'm not saying give up on the server, but Argonath's main reason of being destroyed was the irresponsible and shit acts which we all know were made. Personal issues, ego's, everything came up and Argonath declined.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Kowalski. on April 10, 2020, 06:33:06 am
samp dies >> mud : exceeding playerlimit
kek
first "ppl have exams once they're over, we'll gain our playerbase back"
now, "samp is dying" stop finding excuses but rather accept it that Argonath RPG has died, but it could return if the previous groups which were the main reason of activity, but people lost interest. The point Argo is at rn is where it can not come back from, no one likes to play on a server with 0 players. What would you do, grind meth and be the only player online? or rp with bots? I'm not saying give up on the server, but Argonath's main reason of being destroyed was the irresponsible and shit acts which we all know were made. Personal issues, ego's, everything came up and Argonath declined.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but all we can do now is look towards the future and work our way back as best we can. :)
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 10, 2020, 06:39:15 am
samp dies >> mud : exceeding playerlimit
kek
first "ppl have exams once they're over, we'll gain our playerbase back"
now, "samp is dying" stop finding excuses but rather accept it that Argonath RPG has died, but it could return if the previous groups which were the main reason of activity, but people lost interest. The point Argo is at rn is where it can not come back from, no one likes to play on a server with 0 players. What would you do, grind meth and be the only player online? or rp with bots? I'm not saying give up on the server, but Argonath's main reason of being destroyed was the irresponsible and shit acts which we all know were made. Personal issues, ego's, everything came up and Argonath declined.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but all we can do now is look towards the future and work our way back as best we can. :)
Ngl, I'm serious. A server like Argo exceeds 150playerlimit, you all know which server I'm talking about, some may say it's full of DM bla bla, however it's enjoyable. Argonath, with 0 players is not enjoyable, and one of the main reasons of Argo's decline is failure to accept their fault. In 2018, this excuse kept on coming up "as soon as exams of the players are over, we'll regain our activity" fucking hell, 50% playerbase is above 20 and now the excuse we're coming up with is SA:MP is a dead client, indeed it's creator has stopped working on it,but you simply can not deny the fact that SA:MP is still active, many play it. LSRP, RCRP, M:RP, UIF, etc, i could list a dozens of servers currently active.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Bogomil on April 10, 2020, 08:03:19 am
Everyone gave up already, no point in paying the bills anymore.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on April 10, 2020, 01:00:09 pm
samp dies >> mud : exceeding playerlimit
kek
first "ppl have exams once they're over, we'll gain our playerbase back"
now, "samp is dying" stop finding excuses but rather accept it that Argonath RPG has died, but it could return if the previous groups which were the main reason of activity, but people lost interest. The point Argo is at rn is where it can not come back from, no one likes to play on a server with 0 players. What would you do, grind meth and be the only player online? or rp with bots? I'm not saying give up on the server, but Argonath's main reason of being destroyed was the irresponsible and shit acts which we all know were made. Personal issues, ego's, everything came up and Argonath declined.
Yet a lot of people complain about things there, it's following the same road anyways which proves my point that players are the ones that make the server.

samp dies >> mud : exceeding playerlimit
kek
first "ppl have exams once they're over, we'll gain our playerbase back"
now, "samp is dying" stop finding excuses but rather accept it that Argonath RPG has died, but it could return if the previous groups which were the main reason of activity, but people lost interest. The point Argo is at rn is where it can not come back from, no one likes to play on a server with 0 players. What would you do, grind meth and be the only player online? or rp with bots? I'm not saying give up on the server, but Argonath's main reason of being destroyed was the irresponsible and shit acts which we all know were made. Personal issues, ego's, everything came up and Argonath declined.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but all we can do now is look towards the future and work our way back as best we can. :)
Ngl, I'm serious. A server like Argo exceeds 150playerlimit, you all know which server I'm talking about, some may say it's full of DM bla bla, however it's enjoyable. Argonath, with 0 players is not enjoyable, and one of the main reasons of Argo's decline is failure to accept their fault. In 2018, this excuse kept on coming up "as soon as exams of the players are over, we'll regain our activity" fucking hell, 50% playerbase is above 20 and now the excuse we're coming up with is SA:MP is a dead client, indeed it's creator has stopped working on it,but you simply can not deny the fact that SA:MP is still active, many play it. LSRP, RCRP, M:RP, UIF, etc, i could list a dozens of servers currently active.
It's the players that make the place more enjoyable, the more friends you have to play with the more enjoyment you will get.
You also can't deny the fact that their playerbases dropped tremendously, SA:MP as a whole mod is not considered active compared to how it was before and compared to other mods aswell we would be lying to ourselves if we keep denying that fact.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Miki. on April 10, 2020, 01:10:27 pm
In my personal opinion the server took several hits over the time each time caused by inner toxicity of players with the aid of inexperienced or not entirely neutral staff.
Each hit drift away veterans or gave a nice hit to the IG player motivation to actually put effort into their gameplay. after all we make real friends through out this community and there is nothing more dis motivating then finding out a player you played with for years decides to pull the plug on Argonath because of none-contributing toxic players or a few staff members that are clearly just temporary staff members because they cannot behave as ones and carry the responsibilities. Every veteran that has left, leaves at least 3 more veterans with less motivation to play. I recall each time I took a break from the server was due to staff members or complete chaos and no actual obeying of rules, but both depend on active neutral fair staff that aren't afraid to punish the clearly guilty ones. I've been punishment clean  since I joined this community I only had 2 warnings during my first month of playing back in early 2011, this pretty much means it's not impossible to obey rules and even deal with problematic staff members. each time I left for a break because I got pissed off by unfair or chaotic in game behavior I came back losing at least one friend from this community that has stopped playing. I think overall staff should've been always picked by a very picky selection.

I do hope there is a chance to save this server, but if I'll be completely honest I doubt this is possible any more.
But I'll always be around hoping and in case that there will be an actual effort of the players here to make a change I will join, by the forum activity there are enough players here to try and make something off SAMP again because one players brings at least two back once enjoyment is back.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Serifis on April 10, 2020, 02:39:11 pm
@Doggi What's up dude?

@Traser What about you?

@Hubbestubbe Well...no need to say something
since you have already reply to this topic.

@Carbon Looks like does not effects even the forum boy.

Zero tolerance policy....my a@@!


Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Stivi on April 10, 2020, 02:54:43 pm
It actually is in everyone's hands.
Not in Argonath, no. This isn't a democracy or whatever our glorious leaders said, remember? Clearly it ain't the players - look at other competitive server or whatever we call Mudo nowadays
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on April 10, 2020, 03:18:45 pm
It actually is in everyone's hands.
Not in Argonath, no. This isn't a democracy or whatever our glorious leaders said, remember? Clearly it ain't the players - look at other competitive server or whatever we call Mudo nowadays
Democracy to play? That's just searching for any excuse to not to.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hevar. on April 10, 2020, 04:29:15 pm
Everyone gave up already, no point in paying the bills anymore.

they pay 50 euro for hosting empty server, walla i would take those 50 euro and spend it on a hooker in Red light district.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Bogomil on April 10, 2020, 04:57:27 pm
They should have sold the community to Nathan  :D Now it's worth nothing.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Andeey on April 10, 2020, 05:12:47 pm
Everyone can throw blame to each and every corner of this community but everything is at fault and has been for a long while.

I respect all the leaders of this server and im gonna start of by saying that the people "hating/throwing blame at Carbon" Have peanut sized brains and should go take a look in the mirror, Now sure behind closed doors it might look like he is controlling everything and doesn't care about this community a single bit but.. for example, When the SA:MP server was beginning to get players back and receive content and quality of life updates who was there to make sure that happened? who was there to fund hosted tabs over and over? Carbon.

Who was there to talk to HQ when they were at a standstill in a decision or in an arguement over changes to the script or changes to the rules etc? Carbon.

Now who isn't here? who remains at the helm of the community with no respect or trust toward anyone? Gandalf & Sauron.

As a division leader it was painful to have no access to the server you were trying to lead and help and have no "owners" to talk to about that sort of stuff, You had a middle man in Carbon trying to sort out issues and get stuff done, For example anything that needed to be done in the Database needed Sauron or whenever something went wrong with anything in the server it needed Sauron which meant Me or one of the other managers or leaders needed to contact carbon to contact Sauron or Gandalf.

You can't expect a server to succeed running like that, When the owners don't trust anybody, the only way for access to be given to someone was for them to be getting paid and be working under Contract.

With all that being said, i still respect them for the community they provided for as many years as they did(still are .. kinda)


The Second reason i will list is the constant childish bickering and hatred people grew towards eachother, The fact that certain players/groups no matter what groups they were apart of would still hate and grief eachother, Then complain about what happened in whatever exchange they might've had(deathmatch/Revenge killing/Hunting) and expect Administration to punish them immediately and if they weren't punished they would get angry and either leave or just start shit talking the server or the admin who handled their report, Yes i will name names here, Soprano & Gvardia you guys are fucking retards when it comes to sorting out a problem.(still love most of you)

And yes, Many admins lost interest/left because of that issue^. Sometimes banning you children resulted in major groups "boycotting" whether they're man enough to admit it or not..

Goodluck to the current leaders/administration/active playerbase in trying to keep this thing going

(Lost my train of thought and can't be fucked writing more)


Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: badboy.dhia on April 10, 2020, 05:21:43 pm
They should have sold the community to Nathan  :D Now it's worth nothing.
too late now  :lol: :rofl:
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Pete on April 11, 2020, 09:16:22 am
It's the players that make the place more enjoyable, the more friends you have to play with the more enjoyment you will get.
You also can't deny the fact that their playerbases dropped tremendously, SA:MP as a whole mod is not considered active compared to how it was before and compared to other mods aswell we would be lying to ourselves if we keep denying that fact.

GET OUTTA HERE

You can't see the answer even if you wanted to....you yourself left some time ago and you know it wasn't cause of the players LOL...trying to put it on them is the most cowardly thing someone can do.

"SAMP is dying" no, the server was dying, now it's dead

We were standing without any updates on the server for almost a year, and when we got the update it was something NOBODY wanted, hundreds of ideas were brought up and ignored....none handled stuff properly.

Truth be told, it was never Cena's doing that killed the server, it was that the management itself (owners and managers)

Take this as an example, you said SAMP is dying right? Where is the GTA V RageMP server, how is it doing? Is GTA V dying as well. are the players at fault there too?

You'd be lying to yourself blaming it on SAMP and the players, now that's a fact.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 11, 2020, 10:05:45 am
It's the players that make the place more enjoyable, the more friends you have to play with the more enjoyment you will get.
You also can't deny the fact that their playerbases dropped tremendously, SA:MP as a whole mod is not considered active compared to how it was before and compared to other mods aswell we would be lying to ourselves if we keep denying that fact.

GET OUTTA HERE

You can't see the answer even if you wanted to....you yourself left some time ago and you know it wasn't cause of the players LOL...trying to put it on them is the most cowardly thing someone can do.

"SAMP is dying" no, the server was dying, now it's dead

We were standing without any updates on the server for almost a year, and when we got the update it was something NOBODY wanted, hundreds of ideas were brought up and ignored....none handled stuff properly.

Truth be told, it was never Cena's doing that killed the server, it was that the management itself (owners and managers)

Take this as an example, you said SAMP is dying right? Where is the GTA V RageMP server, how is it doing? Is GTA V dying as well. are the players at fault there too?

You'd be lying to yourself blaming it on SAMP and the players, now that's a fact.
Couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Miki. on April 11, 2020, 11:13:03 am
It's the players that make the place more enjoyable, the more friends you have to play with the more enjoyment you will get.
You also can't deny the fact that their playerbases dropped tremendously, SA:MP as a whole mod is not considered active compared to how it was before and compared to other mods aswell we would be lying to ourselves if we keep denying that fact.

GET OUTTA HERE

You can't see the answer even if you wanted to....you yourself left some time ago and you know it wasn't cause of the players LOL...trying to put it on them is the most cowardly thing someone can do.

"SAMP is dying" no, the server was dying, now it's dead

We were standing without any updates on the server for almost a year, and when we got the update it was something NOBODY wanted, hundreds of ideas were brought up and ignored....none handled stuff properly.

Truth be told, it was never Cena's doing that killed the server, it was that the management itself (owners and managers)

Take this as an example, you said SAMP is dying right? Where is the GTA V RageMP server, how is it doing? Is GTA V dying as well. are the players at fault there too?

You'd be lying to yourself blaming it on SAMP and the players, now that's a fact.


I do agree with a part of what you've said, a huge load was on the owners and staff members through out the time that literally driven the best of veterans away, but in my opinion has nothing to do with scripts or ideas you don't need too much of a script to roleplay and show me another server that actually takes ideas and makes them happen.

Players were a huge chunk of it but players never change. there are always quality ones and toxic ones no matter to which game, community, server or time you go that's just the nature of gamers and their relations. even at the most glamorous times argonath had there were toxic wars among group and toxic players it's always like that but the catch here is how you control those and that's in the power of leadership owners and staff. but I doubt there is a even a slight percentage that has left due to lack of scripts most veterans that played for years would gladly spend several more years on this platform but those veterans felt how the actual quality argonath felt like and that's a part of their expectations but when the chaos IG ain't controlled by staff and inexperienced or biased  and simply wrong people to be chosen as staff are picked it simply drifts them away. I can't count the number of times I heard other veterans and I myself felt shitted upon due to lack of care in the server. Players make this server alive and it's enough to drift one quality player away it will immediately impact other's motivation and eventually drift them away. 
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Mac Taylor on April 11, 2020, 11:55:05 am
In my opinion, both of the management and the players are responsible for all of this. I am not here to put blame on anyone like the others, I will just suggest a honest solution to everyone.
But first, you all should take a look at VC:MP. It is the most active server and the best so far lately. Look at their environment, look at the friendship there. Look at the management and how the leadership handles things there. (And you, the ones who know themselves keep shitting on kessu, look who is in better state in the whole argonath community now.)


Anyways, my suggestion to all management members of all servers, not only a single server. Have a meeting together all, managers and division leaders. And seriously discuss together how everyone can revive their servers. Aye, lead by example, look at VCMP leadership as an example. (I am not talking only to SAMP HQ, I am also talking about all HQs)


The other suggestion is to the players, go look at how friendly VCMP players are. Stop being arguing with each other and stop the hatred between yourselves.

Management can't revive the HQ alone. Players can't revive the server alone.



Ps, VCMP reached 40 players in their very small map which is something great for them.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Nylez on April 11, 2020, 12:14:37 pm
In my opinion, both of the management and the players are responsible for all of this. I am not here to put blame on anyone like the others, I will just suggest a honest solution to everyone.
But first, you all should take a look at VC:MP. It is the most active server and the best so far lately. Look at their environment, look at the friendship there. Look at the management and how the leadership handles things there. (And you, the ones who know themselves keep shitting on kessu, look who is in better state in the whole argonath community now.)


Anyways, my suggestion to all management members of all servers, not only a single server. Have a meeting together all, managers and division leaders. And seriously discuss together how everyone can revive their servers. Aye, lead by example, look at VCMP leadership as an example. (I am not talking only to SAMP HQ, I am also talking about all HQs)


The other suggestion is to the players, go look at how friendly VCMP players are. Stop being arguing with each other and stop the hatred between yourselves.

Management can't revive the HQ alone. Players can't revive the server alone.



Ps, VCMP reached 40 players in their very small map which is something great for them.

Everyone is welcome to come take a look themselves on the VC:MP server.  :)
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on April 11, 2020, 12:30:24 pm
It's the players that make the place more enjoyable, the more friends you have to play with the more enjoyment you will get.
You also can't deny the fact that their playerbases dropped tremendously, SA:MP as a whole mod is not considered active compared to how it was before and compared to other mods aswell we would be lying to ourselves if we keep denying that fact.

GET OUTTA HERE

You can't see the answer even if you wanted to....you yourself left some time ago and you know it wasn't cause of the players LOL...trying to put it on them is the most cowardly thing someone can do.

"SAMP is dying" no, the server was dying, now it's dead

We were standing without any updates on the server for almost a year, and when we got the update it was something NOBODY wanted, hundreds of ideas were brought up and ignored....none handled stuff properly.

Truth be told, it was never Cena's doing that killed the server, it was that the management itself (owners and managers)

Take this as an example, you said SAMP is dying right? Where is the GTA V RageMP server, how is it doing? Is GTA V dying as well. are the players at fault there too?

You'd be lying to yourself blaming it on SAMP and the players, now that's a fact.
And when you think about it, my leave was directly tied and caused by other players. ;)
The most cowardly thing someone can do though is leave to you-know-where and come back here complaining and shitting, the ironic part you were staff in both places at the same time. Regarding cena, no one talked about them in these recent replies but you, I wonder why.
About GTA V, I'm not the one that should be answering that as I'm not active myself there, I will leave it for RageMP staff to answer it.

You guys are missing the point here, it isn't about who's responsibilities was that made us reach this point, it's who's responsibility to get it back on its feet without finding a useless excuse to not to. Everyone was given a fair chance to express theirs opinion and have had the ability to give a hand by the topics that were made few weeks ago and the questions that were asked to numerous people and the plans that were made with them. What happened after that? No one wanted to actually do anything but moan and complain so don't tell me it isn't players fault either. And if you didn't know already, staff team are made of players aswell.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Stivi on April 11, 2020, 04:17:17 pm
I won't play with you Doggi or Carbon and there's nothing you can fix or do that can change my mind. Staff team ruined the gameplay for me and many others like me, with your shitty excuses, lies and poor understanding of the rules. What is it that you don't get from that?

I'm fine with all of you being biased, but when it comes to enforcing what's written down, the staff team has continuously let me down.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Lonewolf on April 11, 2020, 05:34:15 pm
can you guys stop acting so childish, spamming the topic won't help at anything
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Kessu on April 11, 2020, 05:51:26 pm
The childish spam cleaned..

Discuss the subject at hand, but keep it civil and on topic.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on April 11, 2020, 08:24:59 pm
Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP and see when we close it down or end up all banned.  :rofl:
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Pete on April 12, 2020, 12:11:30 am
It's the players that make the place more enjoyable, the more friends you have to play with the more enjoyment you will get.
You also can't deny the fact that their playerbases dropped tremendously, SA:MP as a whole mod is not considered active compared to how it was before and compared to other mods aswell we would be lying to ourselves if we keep denying that fact.

GET OUTTA HERE

You can't see the answer even if you wanted to....you yourself left some time ago and you know it wasn't cause of the players LOL...trying to put it on them is the most cowardly thing someone can do.

"SAMP is dying" no, the server was dying, now it's dead

We were standing without any updates on the server for almost a year, and when we got the update it was something NOBODY wanted, hundreds of ideas were brought up and ignored....none handled stuff properly.

Truth be told, it was never Cena's doing that killed the server, it was that the management itself (owners and managers)

Take this as an example, you said SAMP is dying right? Where is the GTA V RageMP server, how is it doing? Is GTA V dying as well. are the players at fault there too?

You'd be lying to yourself blaming it on SAMP and the players, now that's a fact.
And when you think about it, my leave was directly tied and caused by other players. ;)
The most cowardly thing someone can do though is leave to you-know-where and come back here complaining and shitting, the ironic part you were staff in both places at the same time. Regarding cena, no one talked about them in these recent replies but you, I wonder why.
About GTA V, I'm not the one that should be answering that as I'm not active myself there, I will leave it for RageMP staff to answer it.

You guys are missing the point here, it isn't about who's responsibilities was that made us reach this point, it's who's responsibility to get it back on its feet without finding a useless excuse to not to. Everyone was given a fair chance to express theirs opinion and have had the ability to give a hand by the topics that were made few weeks ago and the questions that were asked to numerous people and the plans that were made with them. What happened after that? No one wanted to actually do anything but moan and complain so don't tell me it isn't players fault either. And if you didn't know already, staff team are made of players aswell.

Other player's attitude was allowed by management :) and not put to place. It's not ironic, it's shitty cause I didn't leave I stayed here and helped, until I got spat in the face (got banned by a developer) for advertising which wasn't the case at all, and had to reach to Carbon who was like meh fine, unbanned. So yeah, that's how management treats players that wanted to help the server. So yeah it is their fault....

Regarding Cena, it's cause lots of people did put the blame on them hence I mentioned them.

The making of topics is long gone, none listened when there were actual players in the server. And no it's not players fault again, cause people complain because they are unhappy with the situation and they are right.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Nylez on April 12, 2020, 02:54:10 am
Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP and see when we close it down or end up all banned.  :rofl:

And your attitude is what's wrong with the general behavior.
Why not just try to make something with what you've got instead of acting like a high and mighty weasel.
You're no better than any other individual, no matter how smart you think you are.
If you would actually try to look past the flaws a server has and work with the shit you've got, you'd realize you got something to work with.

Get off your high horse and get out there and do the work, because nothing that's worth having comes easy.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Miki. on April 12, 2020, 09:43:57 am
This topic seems like a useless loop no one will change my mind about what was the issue that caused the server to drift into this direction and I believe each one holds his opinions and his reason for his leaving so there is no true or false and there is no point in trying to change other's minds.

Like Khm said rather look for a way to get SAMP back on it's feet VCMP is a great example of a old game platform held by nothing more then this community and ties between players and management.
Like I've said I'm willing to even log into a server with five people who actually roleplay and start our way up from there, but I personally hold no grudges against any one  so I don't mind who has what role inside the server I just look forward a chance for a change. I kinda hold same opinion as @Stivi  but I don't have any condition regards who will stand in staff even if it's the same staff member that caused me to leave I think people understand that certain behavior of theirs can actually kill the server something I doubt they believed back when they behaved like this in a very active server environment  I doubt any staff member wants this server dead or else they wouldn't be staff members. I wouldn't mind strict punishing regard the rules because after all I mostly had problems with selective punishing, seemed like certain people only got punished and same punishment wouldn't be given equally for the same rule breaking among players. regardless evidence or anything.

if someone sees point in opening a topic which in simply every player having the option to be active and the will and motivation to try and revive the server. that will simply reply once and note his name this might help find the players who still got hope and they could talk among themselves or even open a small discord channel and roleplay untill/if others decide to jump on as well.  but again if there is something Khm said was very true bringing the server up is ONLY on the players.

regarding scripts there are more then enough scripts to RP we've seen much worse times and I doubt it's a factor it's just an excuse  if you need more scripts to roleplay you're just not doing it right the point of roleplaying in an old game  is that imagination has a huge part in it if you're looking for a game that every finger movement you roleplay will appear on screen and every  building will be open or whatever you should look somewhere else definitely not in SAMP.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Mac Taylor on April 12, 2020, 11:18:39 am
I agree with what Miki said. We don't need scripts, we don't need much players in game. Only few players who can start a new fresh page together with civilian roleplay scenarios. I suggest that we limit our in game map to a small village for now, maybe angle pine or maybe bayside? A small place to start roleplaying with few players. I don't suggest we go straight with FBI/SAPD and criminals roleplay. That will not help in my opinion. I honestly suggest that we start off all as a normal civilians, roleplay together any other role. Mechanics, chit chat in restaurants/bars, organized roleplay races...etc. we can stay like that for a month or longer. No law enforcement/criminals roleplays..etc Because I think that hatred between criminal groups to each other and hatred between criminals and LEOs are a factor for the hatred between players as whole. So we better start friendly, civilised roleplays together until a certain point that we have better playerbase and a better roleplay environment to start expanding out of the village with other different roleplay scenarios between criminals and police.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Jeremy. on April 12, 2020, 02:15:50 pm
You all need to understand that players wont join on their will after all the things happened, SA:MP division had unskilled HQ leaders during many years which led the playerbase decrease so bad. You need a strong foundation before building a huge and beautiful house, same thing needs here.

Just think about it, we had a strong HQ staff, I can name some from late 2010 like Malcolm, Kojak, xcasio, Boromir, and the list can go on. Those guys were just pure gold, perfect leaders which were creating a great atmosphere to entertain people around. I'm not trying to point fingers on anyone, if you're not born for being a leader you'll never be able to.

And, no, you dont need "just 5 players to RP", you actually need groups like Stracci, Ancelotti, Gvardia, Corleone, Araatus to attract people to join the server. You will never attract anyone with Hagen, Gambino or any "new-trend group" which were just money farming and nothing else. The groups you were blaming doing blatant deathmatch and crying over discord how they molotoved your asses for hunting them as police officers were keeping the server alive, open your god damn eyes. No active groups = server dead.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Manoni on April 12, 2020, 03:06:56 pm
Why these kind of topics are still a thing? Either you do something to bring activity or you move on to something else, because complaining about past mistakes is not going to solve anything for the future (if there is any).

These topic seems like a useless loop
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 12, 2020, 07:56:58 pm
You all need to understand that players wont join on their will after all the things happened, SA:MP division had unskilled HQ leaders during many years which led the playerbase decrease so bad. You need a strong foundation before building a huge and beautiful house, same thing needs here.

Just think about it, we had a strong HQ staff, I can name some from late 2010 like Malcolm, Kojak, xcasio, Boromir, and the list can go on. Those guys were just pure gold, perfect leaders which were creating a great atmosphere to entertain people around. I'm not trying to point fingers on anyone, if you're not born for being a leader you'll never be able to.

And, no, you dont need "just 5 players to RP", you actually need groups like Stracci, Ancelotti, Gvardia, Corleone, Araatus to attract people to join the server. You will never attract anyone with Hagen, Gambino or any "new-trend group" which were just money farming and nothing else. The groups you were blaming doing blatant deathmatch and crying over discord how they molotoved your asses for hunting them as police officers were keeping the server alive, open your god damn eyes. No active groups = server dead.
As much as I dislike you, I can't deny this, I was specifically trying to point this out before too.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on April 12, 2020, 10:23:17 pm
Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP and see when we close it down or end up all banned.  :rofl:

And your attitude is what's wrong with the general behavior.
Why not just try to make something with what you've got instead of acting like a high and mighty weasel.
You're no better than any other individual, no matter how smart you think you are.
If you would actually try to look past the flaws a server has and work with the shit you've got, you'd realize you got something to work with.

Get off your high horse and get out there and do the work, because nothing that's worth having comes easy.
Putting aside the rather personal insults and remarks, these are all fair quotes. I don't know where you got that shitty talk from but if you were really an insider of the SAMP community you would know that what you've mentioned above I've mentioned before, multiple times. My actual reply was meant to be a joke to sort of cool things down a little bit since everyone was going the extra mile to make their points even though it doesn't matter anymore. What's left of SAMP is not even close to the prime standard that used to be. There's really a huge downfall for a straight year that you fail to realize. Of course you are here for the popcorn but don't think for a second that you have a solid opinion about what's going on no matter the fancy talk.

And for your information, 8/10 if not 10/10 of the people responding to this topic about SAMP have left the boat and let it sink for a decent amount of time now. I really couldn't care less about what they have to say about this community simply because they decided to move on by stabbing this one in the heart, simple as that. I'm sick and tired of seeing specific dudes wasting their time into endless lines of blaming it all to the management. Let me tell you that they ALL had things their way for years and years and when shit got real they started pointing fingers. No, no and no.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Shultz on April 13, 2020, 04:48:32 pm
Stop hating carbon or Khm, they were the best people that could lead the staff team. The playerbase is low because SAMP is dying in general but I still have faith in khms leading capabilities, he still has some tricks up his sleeve.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: badboy.dhia on April 13, 2020, 05:21:28 pm
The playerbase is low because SAMP is dying in general
SAMP is dying?
Can u explain how/why other english RP server have +100 and +200 playerbase daily?
(https://i.imgur.com/ZfMM7ou.png)
note : i took that SS atm while writing this reply. and i can provide you with SS everyday, about those other SAMP servers playerbase.

You can stand in front of a mirror and keep lying to yourself and repeat "SAMP is dying" as many as you can!
but it changes nothing.  ;)
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Norrage on April 13, 2020, 06:19:50 pm
The playerbase is low because SAMP is dying in general
SAMP is dying?
Can u explain how/why other english RP server have +100 and +200 playerbase daily?
(https://i.imgur.com/ZfMM7ou.png)
note : i took that SS atm while writing this reply. and i can provide you with SS everyday, about those other SAMP servers playerbase.

You can stand in front of a mirror and keep lying to yourself and repeat "SAMP is dying" as many as you can!
but it changes nothing.  ;)

Saying that the screenshot is recent, doesn't mean that it isn't in decline.

(https://i.imgur.com/SfupnyU.png)

Source: http://www.mauzen.org/samp/
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Thomas_A on April 13, 2020, 07:10:33 pm
These kinds of topics killed it.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Julio. on April 13, 2020, 07:32:42 pm
The playerbase is low because SAMP is dying in general
SAMP is dying?
Can u explain how/why other english RP server have +100 and +200 playerbase daily?
(https://i.imgur.com/ZfMM7ou.png)
note : i took that SS atm while writing this reply. and i can provide you with SS everyday, about those other SAMP servers playerbase.

You can stand in front of a mirror and keep lying to yourself and repeat "SAMP is dying" as many as you can!
but it changes nothing.  ;)

Saying that the screenshot is recent, doesn't mean that it isn't in decline.

(https://i.imgur.com/SfupnyU.png)

Source: http://www.mauzen.org/samp/

The previous measurement on the left half of the graph measured the previous "Maximum" players figure, so it's not quite as bad as the situation looks at initial glance. For this purpose we should only be measuring the top line of the right too.

As far as overall SA:MP player count, from the graph I can see now the player count is the same as back in mid 2011. Back then Argonath had 100-150 players peak daily, so imo, zero blame can be attributed to the "decline" of SA:MP.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Tarion Smith on April 14, 2020, 12:32:37 am
<3
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Kowalski. on April 14, 2020, 03:53:11 am
You can stand in front of a mirror and keep lying to yourself and repeat "SAMP is dying" as many as you can!
but it changes nothing.  ;)

You've changed nothing either, and have contributed to absolutely nothing.

l believe that what needs to be done is to acknowledge the past and current mistakes, move forward, drop the toxicity and just play with your friends somewhere that you've all loved for years.

People played Argonath RS4, not because of the scripts but the environment. All we have to do is bring that sort of atmosphere back and play nice with one another. :)
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Rei on April 14, 2020, 05:18:27 am
You people still didn't answer to this question?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Huntsman on April 14, 2020, 11:04:35 am
Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP and see when we close it down or end up all banned.  :rofl:

That wouldn't happen. See, we aren't as easily offended as SAMP players are (Hey, I'm actually quoting Aragorn here and have put his quote rather mildly) and you wouldn't close us down because we haven't relied on Argonath host for several years already.  :gand: It's all paid out of our server leadership's pockets.

Anyhow, I think VCMP's situation proved that "SAMP is old" is not an argument.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: jovanca on April 14, 2020, 02:59:53 pm
Personally, I brought several people back to argonath few months ago when abusive staff member banned me, and the hq decided to let me stay banned. Guess what, everyone i made active stopped playing as well.

It was incompetent leaders that killed Argo samp. While one may say SAMP is dying, and in fact overall activity on SAMP did decrease over the last few years, ever since outburst of the corona pandemic, activity on samp is blooming again. A lot of servers had up to 300% average activity jump since that happened, but Argo's previous and current leaders literally made all of their IC enemies want to never come back and play. 

Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on April 14, 2020, 07:51:39 pm
Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP and see when we close it down or end up all banned.  :rofl:
Anyhow, I think VCMP's situation proved that "SAMP is old" is not an argument.
I know. I don't argue with anything that Nylez said other than the personal quotes which are obviously inaccurate and way false to me. As for my "Let's all SAMPers turn to VCMP" sort of sarcasm it was obviously meant to be a joke. Apologies if it ain't your type of humor.

Neither "SAMP is old" or "until exams are over" are actual arguments and the last two years prove just why. We'd all be fools to think otherwise at this point.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Manoni on April 15, 2020, 12:04:32 am
You people still didn't answer to this question?

They did

These kinds of topics killed it.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 15, 2020, 02:32:12 am
"these topics fucked up argo"
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I actually think you're so childish, and dumb to accept the fact that your own fault was the reason of this mess. Let me show you the reality, Marcel changed the "drugs" script to smth which pays a bit less, I don't quite remember it, and went on with a shitty attitude. No problemo, this was one of the reasons. Second reason, another server starts up at the right moment to fuck it up. Third, HQ fights between themselves. False accusations, this that, everything. Whole server turned on each other, it's like a massive fight occured, if only the HQ could have control over their egos during that time, and be actually helpful to the server, I bet Argo wouldn't have died. The reason some servers are still populated because they have an active HQ who's willing to put their best in keeping the server online, being there for issues. Our HQ had barely 2 scripters, and somewhat HQ members who didn't even play. Good job! "these topics fucked argo", literally piss off! You just come up with thousands of excuses.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on April 15, 2020, 03:02:54 am
Before I start off with the point of this topic, I believe I need to clarify the definitions of a few terms I will be using.
First and most important – Roleplay. I’ll use the Wikipedia article:
“A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game;[1][2] abbreviated RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development”

Roleplaying in SA:MP would mean you assume the Role of your Character and develop him or her and act out the way HE or SHE WOULD. You are NOT your character. So any personal feelings you may have toward someone OOC(Or outside of Roleplay for those who do not recognize OOC) do not matter. If your character never met them or heard of them through RP, he should be indifferent. This is why I believe Metagaming is a vital part of the roleplay process. To put it short – Roleplaying is acting out and developing your character’s actions in a realistic and reasonable way.

Activity – This is NOT the player slots being filled in game. Activity is the interactions between the players. When you go out with your friends IRL to do activities, you interact with them, talk with them, drink and play with them as well as interact with the people around if you are in a public space. To put it short activity is things happening, not people in game.

Powergaming – It has two definitions, both of which are valid. It is either your /me emotes enforcing a certain action on the other participant (e.g. /me punches X in the face, knocking out his teeth and making him unconscious). The other definition would be the play 2 win attitude, which is basically taking part in scenarios with the sole purpose of coming out as a “winner”. To put it in Argonath terminology – it is both “forcing roleplay” and “play2win”.



Now, to start off – you might say that “Argonath is not dead”, “We are active” etc. Yes, there are players In Game. But honestly, whenever I head In Game it feels empty. I’ve had more fun and interactions and seen more activity half a year ago when we had 1-5/200 players. I’m not posting this to trashtalk any groups, admins, HQ or whatnot. My main interest is the good of Argonath, it has always been.

Yes, SA:MP Argonath does have a decent playerbase nowadays. But there is no activity, no interactions between the players. Back in the day, groups and players actually interacted with eachother – providing enjoyable scenarios for all sides involved. Which sadly is something that has not happened in years. People pull guns, kidnap, beat up PD members just for pulling them over for a traffic violation. A recent example would be the situation with the recently elected Mayor of Los Santos. The person who became mayor did so only because they were the only candidate. People simply did not care enough to involve themselves in politics. What happens when they get elected? They start getting kidnapped for whatever reasons and I can only assume is because certain individuals wish to profit off of it.

In all honesty, I believe kidnappings should be monitored and limited as well as regulated like shootouts. I’ve seen my fair share of scenarios where people are being kidnapped for the sake of their tag or group they belong to. Afterward they proceed to get tortured and forced to remain on the scene, despite it being graphic. That is disgusting and graphic roleplay, which should only happen when both sides are okay with it. Very few people would enjoy their character being tortured and killed just because of a tag they wear. This generally made Argonath a rather hostile place for people, because you get bullied and tormented, just because you chose to join a certain group.

Another thing, which I believe is the main issue that lead to the downfall and decrease of the playerbase. The majority of groups at the time(mostly formed by people who were new) based all their roleplay and interactions on the scripts. You have weedfields, meth cooks, black market and notoriety, scripted properties and owning them. During the “good times”, roleplay was all over. You had people like Jcs and his Immigration Patrol. There was no script for showing someone your passport, nor were there any laws against that. It was people having fun and interacting with eachother. Mexican gangs roleplaying as illegals were running and hiding from them. They had scripted passports, but simply roleplayed. They wrote stories. The majority of the remaining playerbase does not engage in roleplay. You no longer have mafia families opening their Clubs, hosting different groups, cops, clans and engaging in club roleplay. You do not see roleplay races – it is mostly admin hosted events which are “go here > countdown > race > announce winner > give money”, most of which is in public chat or admin announcements. Instead of having it all being roleplayed, having people contact eachother IC and organize the race, inviting people with SMS and calls.

You don’t have people interacting with eachother. Everyone is driving around, sometimes growing weed, sometimes getting in a cop chase. They do not care for the consequences for their characters. They’ll die, respawn, wait out some time and do it again. It is insane.

One of the things that contributed to this is the division in a few major groups. Sure, you can say that they are different groups and allies, associates whatnot. But we all know that there are only three criminal groups and they have been around for the last 2-3 years. You may give out different names, you may act as allies, but the structure is the same. The mentality is the same. You have those groups driving around in their cars, fully armed and armored up, drive up to the weedfield, plant, wait the hours, harvest – go sell and buy the next property. They buy properties they never open to the public, they never use for anything else but a rendezvous point.

I can continue listing, but it’d come down to knit picking. The main problem is – there is little to none activity in Argonath SA:MP and there is even less incentive to join the server. Why would I go InGame, when there is no place I can go to roleplay at(Like GS9 for example)? I can go grind the script, truck, plant weed, mine and then go off. But this is something I can do in SinglePlayer as well with the help of a few mods. I do not go on SA:MP to play alone, I go to interact with others and roleplay.

My question goes out to everyone. What can we do to bring activity back? What groups and businesses would you guys like to see in order to encourage you to roleplay and interact with the others? What will be required for all those year-long OOC based group conflicts to end, for the sake of Argonath’s future? What turned us into script-dependent zombies who cannot use our imagination and what can we do to encourage that?

One thing I will address before it is stated. I recognize that I disagree with some people OOC, I recognize I’ve had conflicts in the past. But that is my problem. Not my character’s. Whenever I go In Game, I am my character and I should not be limited and ignored based on who I am OOC. Feel free to trashtalk me in DMs or Discord, IG PMs and public chat, you have the right to dislike me. But think about what comes out of it. Nothing. Just because you had issues with someone in the far away or recent past does not mean you should ignore his characters or automatically be hostile to him. We are all here for one reason, and that’s Argonath. Anything else is additional flavor.

So for the sake of Argonath – bury all hatches, start off something new and original, involve others and let us be a healthy and friendly community, rather than just talk about being one.


tl;dr:
My question to all is - what can we do to promote activity and get people actually interacting with eachother in a way enjoyable for all sides involved?

Just gonna leave this here and bring the discussion back to the original concept of the topic.

Do not derail my thread with interpretations or reply based on the topic name. Read the first post and state your case or go make another topic if you wish to continue circlejerking.

Things got far worse from the time I originally posted the topic, but question remains - Why did you stop roleplaying and what will it take to get you back to it? Have you no wish to RP, fuck off and find another community to kill off already.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Julio. on April 15, 2020, 11:30:50 am
To be honest, at this point it is basically like starting your own server from anew. The "residual" count of players we had that would have returned will now have established themselves elsewhere. Unless Argonath can provide a far superior experience to their "new" servers, it won't attract people back in bulk.

The time to "restore" the player count was in the two years post-RS4. Argonath has been on damage control since then, and needed desperate life support from the server owners when the hacking campaign was prevalent which never truly arrived.

What's left for people to decide is whether they stay out of loyalty for the "server name" or "brand", or whether they go elsewhere. It says a lot that that at least two other communities have spawned off the back of what has not worked here.

I find it particularly ironic that we've come full circle to a similar scenario from which Argonath was formed. It could be argued Argonath is the newest "Anke borg". (Yes, the "origin" server of Argonath is still censored on here as "ab" if you try to write it without the space).
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Thomas_A on April 15, 2020, 05:30:32 pm
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting?  :D
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 15, 2020, 05:47:09 pm
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting?  :D
Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on April 15, 2020, 06:03:19 pm
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting?  :D
Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!
Drug prices dropping sounds like a good excuse to leave ye. I think you should read your own signature more carefully. Rather than finding an excuse how about discussing about how to improve?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 15, 2020, 06:16:23 pm
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting?  :D
Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!
Drug prices dropping sounds like a good excuse to leave ye. I think you should read your own signature more carefully. Rather than finding an excuse how about discussing about how to improve?
That's a great idea, to be very honest, I gotta drop my shitty attitude, I'm just short-tempered. We gotta start off with dropping our toxicity towards each other, and be actually present IG, with all the willing groups who want to play.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Stivi on April 15, 2020, 06:37:25 pm
Kinda sad, but SAMP has no future. It hasn't had a future for a long time now, only hope.

Maybe a new webmaster will save it lol
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Bogomil on April 15, 2020, 09:35:20 pm
I have spotted how certain people think they are something more than the others just because they played for longer and have better understanding of English. The winning mentality killed the server, everyone being a snowflake killed the server, "I'll report every staff member who dares to punish me, but when I become a member of the staff I'll punish for the most ridiculous reasons." killed the server, the always unhappy and greedy developer who was accepted thousand times back even though he does nothing killed the server. I mean there are so many reasons behind argonath's death, for sure Carbon, Gandalf and everyone fucking else who went inactive once they got promoted have failed, but come on - everyone is guilty. Those people who said they rather play alone than with pakis were wrong and proved how "loyal" they are. Hatred killed Argonath. I apologize if I was toxic at some point. Can you apologize as well?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Thomas_A on April 15, 2020, 11:05:50 pm
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting?  :D
Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!

What exactly have you done?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Andeey on April 16, 2020, 04:18:26 am
the reality is.. It's 2020 and everyone day by day is getting more and more sensitive and with such a "small" playerbase even the slightest change in ruling or change in script can make them all riot and give up.(even if it's the right change)
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Pedro. on April 16, 2020, 05:50:35 am
I personally stopped playing due to personal issues mostly but also because of the unfairness the criminals were suffering from back in the time. yet one of the best online games I've ever played and would come back if we'd have decent player base
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hammer_ on April 16, 2020, 09:03:37 am
*wonders how topics could fuck up argo when someone else literally fucked it up*
I don't quite remember it

 this that, everything.

You just the living example of it. Why bother posting?  :D
Bruh, you just come up with excuses rather than putting efforts in fixing this server. OH WAIT, LETS MAKE EFFORTS AFTER DRIVING EVERYONE OUT OF THIS SERVER AND BE LEFT WITH NO ADMIN, NO SCRIPTER AND BE JUST LIKE THAT INNIT!!!!

What exactly have you done?
Keep away from people like you, it's corona time bruh
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Stivi on April 16, 2020, 12:02:04 pm
^^
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Antonio. on April 16, 2020, 01:37:17 pm
Just move on, it's never going to get better. :)

SA:MP Server was a ship sinking slowly throughout the years, but nobody wanted to adress the issues back then because the server had a very high playerbase. Now that we're at the bottom of the ocean we want to repair the ship.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Shorty. on April 16, 2020, 02:35:12 pm
We had the best memories throughout the years, we met cool friends, and we had fun. It’s time to move on.

Just move on, it's never going to get better. :)

SA:MP Server was a ship sinking slowly throughout the years, but nobody wanted to adress the issues back then because the server had a very high playerbase. Now that we're at the bottom of the ocean we want to repair the ship.
well said
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Archie on April 19, 2020, 09:21:22 pm
After logging in for the first time in almost a year, I must say that I am actually surprised to see this level of inactivity both in the forum and on SA:MP. I have not yet had the chance to check out on the other servers but it's so sad to a community that once used to be fun and life-changing for us all nerds ;)

I don't think the developers of Argonath are entirely to blame because it's fair to say that RP culture worldwide, on platforms of certain games like the SA, is on the fall lately. I understand that changes in the core of this community cannot be made due to some restrictions this community is built on. I don't expect us to move on to another platform in a second but hear me @thestaffofthisbeautifulcommunity, it looks like we need some serious alterations.

Personally I left RPing a long time ago because of my studies but I have to say that Argonath has played a key role in making me who I am right now. (I joined when I was 13 lol) Scrolling through the forum, I saw a lot of familiar faces which reminisced me about the good old days. You guys will always have a special place in my heart. I'll be hanging around for a while and am definitely interested in providing a collective solution as to how we can 'make Argonath great again'.

<3
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Marcell on April 22, 2020, 04:29:18 am
lets be real this server was always shit by samp standards except rs4 had some cool players that kept interactions alive. All the bias was always towards cops which made being a criminal cancer, but being a criminal half of the time was just killing cops,  beefing with other groups and constant  hacker wars in shootouts between several players of each of the criminal groups. It was fun nevertheless cause of the interaction in the old days, yes, but thats back when samp was alive enough a bad server like this still had a decent playerbase, shitty administration started taking its toll on players  and once all the cool guys left  suddenly purists woke up from their retarded 'rp it' dream  and started realizing some people actually want scripts, scripts got introduced and it caused the missing playerbase to be filled with retards doing nothing but farming scripts (but not like besides beefing other groups there was anything to do than farming scripts in the first place, because RPing is shit on a server with no RP standards to begin with and this is how its always going to be lmao, you cant eat the cake and still have it. And yeah I know sometimes there were groups focused on genuinely RPing but usually it was LSRP rejects who came, rped a bit for a month then washed away).  I really find it amusing to go back to this forum sometimes and see the never-ending circle of people wondering why the server is dead.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Hevar. on April 22, 2020, 06:39:25 pm
Argpnath SA:MP 2007-2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9V78UbdzWI
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on April 23, 2020, 12:40:23 pm
Argpnath SA:MP 2007-2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9V78UbdzWI
It's been a long and bumpy ride for sure.

Taking advantage of your unfunny and rather dead(literally dead - see what I did there?) coffin meme, I seriously had hopes of the server sparking its own self back up a after COVID-19 was officially well put on the table worldwide, even for a short while(topnotch rhyme, shadys back-back again?). Guess the hopes fell short.. 
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Huntsman on May 18, 2020, 04:42:17 pm
suddenly purists woke up from their retarded 'rp it' dream  and started realizing some people actually want scripts, scripts got introduced and it caused the missing playerbase to be filled with retards doing nothing but farming scripts

Damn, couldnt've said it better.
So many good ideas that players always wanted were rejected with the RP it mentality.

I always hoped that the RageMP GTA V Argonath server will revive Argonath, but it doesn't seem to be doing as well as was expected. Which is a shame, because the community there is ten times better than what SAMP had.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Chase on May 19, 2020, 05:53:48 am
We all can agree to disagree on what killed the server and what could have been done to prevent it, but there's one thing that I think most of us can agree on - Most of us legitimately tried to do what we could, and that's all that matters in the end.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on May 19, 2020, 12:08:12 pm
suddenly purists woke up from their retarded 'rp it' dream  and started realizing some people actually want scripts, scripts got introduced and it caused the missing playerbase to be filled with retards doing nothing but farming scripts
I always hoped that the RageMP GTA V Argonath server will revive Argonath, but it doesn't seem to be doing as well as was expected. Which is a shame, because the community there is ten times better than what SAMP had.
First of all; your activity in both V and SAMP was never enough to judge whether the environment or the overall activity standard was appropriate or not. Your opinion's root starts from this very forum, so there goes your endless and rather carping commentary about the said servers state.

Aren't you bored of beating a dead horse? I swear to God I've counted limitless posts of you bitching about SAMP in general since very late 2015 as if you are some sort BGT judge that is required to comment about each and every move SAMP has provided. Enough. We get it, VCMP is your dream platform and I'm pretty sure most of other SAMPers are glad it is.

For your information, the old but gold generation of Argonath SAMP was near damn perfect. Proper scripts for the specific period of time -including the low demands of the actual playerlist of the time- and a very friendly environment overall. Whether your thick mind gets it or not, SAMP was the core of the community, and for the right reasons. You might as well wash your mouth before constantly bringing up the latest state of the SAMP server as a bad example for the rest of the community.

This other server is currently shining in activity and let me tell you that 90% of the players currently active there are purely Argonathians. That by itself is enough to prove that your "SAMP is shit" argument has really grown old. We've all turned SAMP into a shithole, you are included, too. We've all been pointing fingers left and right as well as going the extra mile to prove that we're right and the opposite side is false.

Last but not least, stop acting like a genius that you think you are and move on with your life and VCMP career. Your excessive overbearing remarks and constant hatred towards any sort of SAMP outcome is also a part of SAMP's general downfall and has become extremely sickening. Go arrest some smugglers or something. Oh and yeah, you have the option to return to the scene after dying on the ship over and over and over and over again. How amusing?! Fits your must-win, truly arrogant, White-Knightish front just fine.

We all can agree to disagree on what killed the server and what could have been done to prevent it, but there's one thing that I think most of us can agree on - Most of us legitimately tried to do what we could, and that's all that matters in the end.
That's a fair point.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on May 19, 2020, 10:14:04 pm
This other server is currently shining in activity and let me tell you that 90% of the players currently active there are purely Argonathians.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

purely Argonathians.

 :hah: :hah: :hah: :hah: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 You do realize that the majority of active so called "Argonathians" over there are the main force behind the downfall of SA:MP Argonath, right? Allowing some of them to come back mid-last year was the final nail to the coffin. Be a pig and play in the mud, but do not claim false loyalty on their behalf.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on May 19, 2020, 10:44:23 pm
You do realize that the majority of active so called "Argonathians" over there are the main force behind the downfall of SA:MP Argonath, right?
The only thing I do realize is that you have no clue what you are on about. You've so blatantly generalized our past active playerlist to a specific group of people you have a beef with, how damn cute. If you take off your toxic pair of very much convenient glasses you'll eventually see that a very decent amount of great Argonath RPers all reside in the mud at this very moment.


Be a pig and play in the mud, but do not claim false loyalty on their behalf.
I have given up my long time SAMP RP buddies due to the fact that I've refused to sink into the mud myself. I've constantly begged fellow clanmates and previous groupmates to start shit here, once again. Your lack of information and this very false accusation is actually very much triggering, taking into account you've known me for a decent amount of time.

Right as this post is being made, a brand new VMP group merge is taking place for the sake of improving the new server and possibly influence the environment there as a whole. But Jesus Christ seeing the pig quote coming from you is pretty damn discouraging to say the least.




And since you give me the " :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:" bullshit as if you are actually very much true and honest about the matter, why don't we just mention your witchhunting situation couple of months ago with Bas, when the server was actually showing signs of life?

I think I've mentioned this to either you or Tom but stop having the my way or no way mentality. The fact that you see things from a different angle does not make the opposite side necessarily false, and quite frankly do not bitch about when things don't turn your desired way. Honestly I expected better.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Bogomil on May 20, 2020, 12:33:15 am
(https://inthebackofthenet.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/toxic.jpg)

can't see you 2 very active in argo  :lol:

edit: I agree with what Charles said
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Huntsman on May 20, 2020, 12:37:10 am
suddenly purists woke up from their retarded 'rp it' dream  and started realizing some people actually want scripts, scripts got introduced and it caused the missing playerbase to be filled with retards doing nothing but farming scripts
I always hoped that the RageMP GTA V Argonath server will revive Argonath, but it doesn't seem to be doing as well as was expected. Which is a shame, because the community there is ten times better than what SAMP had.
First of all; your activity in both V and SAMP was never enough to judge whether the environment or the overall activity standard was appropriate or not. Your opinion's root starts from this very forum, so there goes your endless and rather carping commentary about the said servers state.

Aren't you bored of beating a dead horse? I swear to God I've counted limitless posts of you bitching about SAMP in general since very late 2015 as if you are some sort BGT judge that is required to comment about each and every move SAMP has provided. Enough. We get it, VCMP is your dream platform and I'm pretty sure most of other SAMPers are glad it is.

For your information, the old but gold generation of Argonath SAMP was near damn perfect. Proper scripts for the specific period of time -including the low demands of the actual playerlist of the time- and a very friendly environment overall. Whether your thick mind gets it or not, SAMP was the core of the community, and for the right reasons. You might as well wash your mouth before constantly bringing up the latest state of the SAMP server as a bad example for the rest of the community.

This other server is currently shining in activity and let me tell you that 90% of the players currently active there are purely Argonathians. That by itself is enough to prove that your "SAMP is shit" argument has really grown old. We've all turned SAMP into a shithole, you are included, too. We've all been pointing fingers left and right as well as going the extra mile to prove that we're right and the opposite side is false.

Last but not least, stop acting like a genius that you think you are and move on with your life and VCMP career. Your excessive overbearing remarks and constant hatred towards any sort of SAMP outcome is also a part of SAMP's general downfall and has become extremely sickening. Go arrest some smugglers or something. Oh and yeah, you have the option to return to the scene after dying on the ship over and over and over and over again. How amusing?! Fits your must-win, truly arrogant, White-Knightish front just fine.

We all can agree to disagree on what killed the server and what could have been done to prevent it, but there's one thing that I think most of us can agree on - Most of us legitimately tried to do what we could, and that's all that matters in the end.
That's a fair point.

Seriously? And then you have the audacity to judge my judgement of the current state of things when you spit delusional nonsense like that?

1) I joined SAMP during the end of the RS3 era and for the absolute majority of my ten year stay here, I spent it in SAMP. I'm just in as much of a position to judge what's currently going on just as you are, maybe even more so. Ofcourse I'm no longer active in SAMP: the only instance I enjoy playing with myself is if it involves my right hand. Meanwhile, I'm active on RAGE:MP and VCMP on daily basis.
2) If someone would've actually listened to the "people bitching", perhaps things wouldn't be as they are now. The players opinion was constantly written off as bullshit, and look how far this elitist behaviour has gotten the community.
3) Again, I was there during the prime time and was there during the downfall, which is why I allow myself to comment on how things are and why they are like they are.
4) Ah yes, that other server. Was there too, tried that out. The fact that you even to dare to compare that other server to what Argonath SAMP was in its prime time shows just how much you know what you're talking about yourself.
5) Are you fucking serious right now? Cops returning after death was always part of the Argonath vision and was always allowed in SAMP until LSRP rejects took over when things started to grow grim and decided it's no longer allowed. Are you even capable of grasping the irony of bashing a part of the community that enforces the same vision regarding this subject that SAMP has as well for the absolute majority of its existence? Get the fuck outta here.

Now crawl back to the "other server" where "STOP OR I SHOOT" RP is somehow considered a spiritual successor.

And yeah:

You do realize that the majority of active so called "Argonathians" over there are the main force behind the downfall of SA:MP Argonath, right? Allowing some of them to come back mid-last year was the final nail to the coffin. Be a pig and play in the mud, but do not claim false loyalty on their behalf.

^ Pretty much sums it up.

A circle jerk of rejects who either didn't get their way here or the positions they wanted, or even got community banned, so they decided to create a copycat community for themselves.  Amusing.
All of these people playing there are essentially traitors who decided to take the easy way out. And yet, you have the fucking gutts to come here and call me out? I atleast still fucking play here, you decided to turncoat. So shut the fuck up.

--

Now that that's said,

The way I see it, RAGE:MP is currently a chance to revive the community. Yet, most of the time the player count fluctuates from 10 to 15 during the day and increase to 20 - 25 during evening - night time, which is still not quite enough for a map of the size. In addition, a lot of these players just AFK most of the time to farm the scripted automatic paydays or grind the fireman script. And that's understandable, because none of the groups, except for Araatus, that were prominent back in the active days of SAMP, have moved to RAGE:MP despite the anticipation that the server's release had.

So my suggestion is: it's time to move on and hop onto RAGE:MP with a fresh start.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: TheGreasyChopper on May 20, 2020, 01:14:44 am
And since you give me the " :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:" bullshit as if you are actually very much true and honest about the matter, why don't we just mention your witchhunting situation couple of months ago with Bas, when the server was actually showing signs of life?

I was not witchhunting, I simply pointed out a flawed group system, which in the end was not fixed. Bas was well aware that the group system was broken and I was trying to resolve it and make it so things are done by the written rules. Me and Bas were never on bad terms and never had any beef between eachother. Before you jump on the "hurr Greasy was mad cuz he was kicked from admin team hurr durr xDDDD", I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with what actually happened. My honest belief is that he just did not want to bother fixing it at that point. If by "signs of life" you refer to people coming back and then being given back positions from which they were removed due to incompetence, yes - indeed the life was back alright.

In my past as an administrator I've always enforced the rules as they are written. Seeing groups with beyond subpar roleplay getting recognized by the server HQ and rulebreakers intentionally being let go for the sake of a playerbase lead me to speaking out(as I was no longer part of the administration, I was powerless to change any of it). Also, I would not call an increased playerbase a "sign of life". As I've mentioned before, sure there were players In Game, but there was no activity. No roleplay, no interactions, no incentive to play(I mean, what would be my incentive to play when people got shit for free without any effort by magically returning?)

If you take off your toxic pair of very much convenient glasses you'll eventually see that a very decent amount of great Argonath RPers all reside in the mud at this very moment.

That's the thing, the "decent RP" thing everyone keeps mentioning. The make-belief Frank Hawks and other imposters, unbelievably shitty administration that in most occasions punishes the victim rather than the rulebreaker(I've got at least 5 or 6 cases of that on record), handhold grind mentality, disgusting overmapping and whatnot. I've said it many times. You are either a RP server or not. Last I checked they preached the "Light RP" thing, which basically means "RP or not, up to you".

Sure, there might be decent people in there. I myself go there when I wish to troll around and deathmatch. But that "very decent amount of great Argonath RPers" is mainly the reason I refuse to move there and waste my time on something I do not enjoy.

Your lack of information and this very false accusation is actually very much triggering, taking into account you've known me for a decent amount of time.

Just because I disagree does not mean I am misinformed. If those "Argonathians" as you call them were indeed Argonathians, they would've stuck around and did something for Argonath, instead of jump ship at first opportunity. How many of those "decent Argonathians" are active on Argonath(SA:MP)? Let me answer that for you - 0. The playerbase is 0. So do not pat yourself on your back at how loyal you are to Argonath, it's disgusting.

Right as this post is being made, a brand new VMP group merge is taking place for the sake of improving the new server and possibly influence the environment there as a whole.

This is a topic about SA:MP. I could not care less for V:MP at this point, as the stability of the client itself as well as the lack of any roleplay on the server do not in any way spark my interest to spend my free time on it.



can't see you 2 very active in argo  :lol:

And 3 or 4 months later, I am yet to see any screenshots of that glorious roleplay you kept mentioning or any evidence of your previous claims. So go back to playing with your urdu speaking Ballas, please  :)
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Andeey on May 20, 2020, 02:54:09 am
Sing along with me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: jesse on May 20, 2020, 02:56:55 am
It was me! My bad lads, please forgive
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on May 20, 2020, 03:17:04 am
I'll respect your right in defending yourself despite not being rather true at least from my own perspective; benefit of the doubt pretty much applies to everyone.

Although....
Now crawl back to the "other server" where "STOP OR I SHOOT" RP is somehow considered a spiritual successor.
I atleast still fucking play here, you decided to turncoat. So shut the fuck up.
This is fucking false. It feels like you are in a desperate need of proving me wrong by coming up with disgusting assumptions like this one.

Uh oh, by the way, since you claim yourself to be a true VCMPer and as you clearly stated that you have given up on the shithole that SAMP has turned to for years now, why bother to constantly drag yourself into this toxic environment? After all that's the reason you've stopped playing yourself, right?

If you take a look at each and every SAMP topic made regarding the state of the server, you are always there to share your opinion, even though you haven't logged in for more than a half hour for at least 5 years now. That by itself is enough to know that your opinion is based of from forum discussions and not any other sort of communication with an active and healthy caring part of the server or by in-game experience for that matter.

The fact that you have an account registered since whatever your first registration was does not give you any sort of 'SAMP Veteran' right that you consider yourself to be. You are nothing more than a gardener that tries to participate in a discussion about rocket science. And yes, even if you ask me personally, I myself cannot be dead certain of what things went so wrong since there are tons of facts that are hidden beneath the table. Nobody but few individuals are well aware of what has been the only issue that has drastically turned Argonath SA:MP into a ghost town. What really matters in the end is that those who are left and still care do whatever's possible to keep the server somewhat alive. Or... nothing at all; at the very least do not come out each and every fucking time and play the "IT'S THEIR FAULT" game, simply judging by topics like this one. It has become extremely predictable.


In all honesty, I expected nothing else than this response and I've already shared my opinion about you, maybe not in the fairest way of them all, but still.. your arrogant and know-it-all behavior is WAY too evident for me to add anything else.

Fits your must-win, truly arrogant, White-Knightish front just fine..

I've officially now made my own peace with eternal immunity towards your future counter-arguments about any possible matter or any other sort of inaccurate statement of yours. I never got to know you that well and I've witnessed your personality as much as the forums allowed me to do, but you truly seem like an insult to common sense.






-

I feel like we're on such terms that we both are able to take this in private. This argument of ours does not belong here.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Huntsman on May 20, 2020, 09:55:00 am
Uh oh, by the way, since you claim yourself to be a true VCMPer and as you clearly stated that you have given up on the shithole that SAMP has turned to for years now, why bother to constantly drag yourself into this toxic environment? After all that's the reason you've stopped playing yourself, right?

Seriously, can you stop putting words into my mouth?
Yes, VCMP always had a special place in my heart and I do prefer it over SAMP, but I never hated SAMP. As I already told you, I no-lifed SAMP from 2009 to 2015 and I enjoyed the server. The discontent I later expressed was based on what it has become, not what it was or what it was meant to be.

If you take a look at each and every SAMP topic made regarding the state of the server, you are always there to share your opinion, even though you haven't logged in for more than a half hour for at least 5 years now. That by itself is enough to know that your opinion is based of from forum discussions and not any other sort of communication with an active and healthy caring part of the server or by in-game experience for that matter.

I was logged in, more than once, and more than half an hour. It was rather enough to make an observation on what it used to be and what it is now. Doesn't take twenty hours a week to realize the server is dead. And anyone who says that 15 players average compared to what it used to be is "active" is simply lying to themselves.

The fact that you have an account registered since whatever your first registration was does not give you any sort of 'SAMP Veteran' right that you consider yourself to be. You are nothing more than a gardener that tries to participate in a discussion about rocket science. And yes, even if you ask me personally, I myself cannot be dead certain of what things went so wrong since there are tons of facts that are hidden beneath the table. Nobody but few individuals are well aware of what has been the only issue that has drastically turned Argonath SA:MP into a ghost town. What really matters in the end is that those who are left and still care do whatever's possible to keep the server somewhat alive. Or... nothing at all; at the very least do not come out each and every fucking time and play the "IT'S THEIR FAULT" game, simply judging by topics like this one. It has become extremely predictable.
I played the server since RS3, and by played I mean I used to be online for like six - seven hours daily, and only stopped playing when things went downhill around 2015. How the fuck does that not make me a veteran?

In all honesty, I expected nothing else than this response and I've already shared my opinion about you, maybe not in the fairest way of them all, but still.. your arrogant and know-it-all behavior is WAY too evident for me to add anything else.

Just because you choose to sugar-coat everything doesn't make you any better of a person, nor does it make your opinion any more valid than mine.

Fits your must-win, truly arrogant, White-Knightish front just fine..
Yeah, exactly. You know me sooo well.
Who the fuck are you again?

I've officially now made my own peace with eternal immunity towards your future counter-arguments about any possible matter or any other sort of inaccurate statement of yours. I never got to know you that well and I've witnessed your personality as much as the forums allowed me to do, but you truly seem like an insult to common sense.

And then he calls me arrogant.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Jcstodds on May 20, 2020, 12:25:12 pm
Hi all, we are going to have quite a few players joining the community since GTA V is free this past week.

This kind of topic is going to be the first thing they see as it's flooding the recent posts and might send out the wrong message to new members of the community.

I'm not trying to dismiss this topics discussion, but it would be amazing if everyone here could use that energy in a positive way to promote Argonath as a community. With that in mind... would it be a good idea to lock this topic temporarily?
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: My_Name_Is_Lan on May 20, 2020, 02:23:21 pm
artus farkus in d house
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on May 20, 2020, 03:00:31 pm
Yes, VCMP always had a special place in my heart and I do prefer it over SAMP, but I never hated SAMP.
ok bud




Which is a shame, because the community there is ten times better than what SAMP had.

VC:MP's still going strong. 15-22 players daily, so hop in if you want to play an active Argo server  :war:

While the other servers might be struggling, we're still going strong as always, so consider paying us a visit and stop playing with yourself  :gand:

"SA:MP General / Re: [SA:MP] What's the reason for your inactivity?"
"3) The whining culture that was in SAMP ever since its beginning. Sorry. Even Aragorn said it himself once"

As much as it saddens me to say this, SA:MP's future is rather clear. Having paid a visit there recently, the conclusion that at this point it's pretty much on life support by the very few players that still play it.

The server died because people who knew how to keep it alive left.

"Speakerbox / Re: Is this community still alive ?"
"SA:MP is well.. On life support I guess.
VC:MP is still active"

And needless to say, it must no longer be so SAMP centered as it used to be.

SA:MP is pretty much already dead.
VC:MP is still going strong because it has a much more dedicated, strong and united community that's been rock solid since 2008.

Oh yes, the elitist clans you'd have to join to get any significant position anywhere  :hah: :rofl:

I am afraid the SA:MP section of this community has crossed the point of no return, sadly.

"Archive / Re: Intoducing: RS 5.3 (and 5.4)"
"As a further point to reinforce my claim, Jeremy would have been booted off these forums long ago under the RS4 HQ. I mean no offense to anyone, but Devin himself was quite a fucking ass."

I had played Argonath RPG in VC:MP on a friends computer like two years back before I discovered SAMP.

(SA:MP veteran btw  :cop:)

Either way, face the fact. This is the first time it happened. Sure, SAMP used to have activity problems at times, but never to this extent. Never to the point like this.  And no, it is not that the "mod is 12 years old". VC:MP is about the same age and still kicking, and people don't seem to get tired of it anytime soon. In fact, it seems that the older it gets, the more people join our community. As I repeated time over time - it is the SA:MP community that can be really unbearable that probably motivates people to leave.

And that's only a sample of your constant hatred and shittalk for at least two proven years. The list goes on however this is way too time consuming for me to bother any longer.

but I never hated SAMP.

(https://i.imgur.com/gvrBaUT.jpg)

I never hated SAMP.

 :neutral2:
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Huntsman on May 20, 2020, 03:15:17 pm
> compiles a list of recent posts about the current states of the server.
> uses it as an argument that I "always hated and shat on samp".

I already told you, I hate what the server has become, not what it was when I actively played it nor what it was meant to be. You've proven nothing with the post.

Though I must admit, the fact that you've dedicated your precious time compile a list of out of context quotes amuses and flatters me. Couldnt've that time be spent better playing in a treacherous server you love so much, no? Instead of defending a server in a community you've abandoned?  :hah:

Stop throwing shit in other people's faces when you're so full of it yourself that you couldn't climb out if there was a crane to pull you out.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Sawyer on May 20, 2020, 03:24:03 pm
Though I must admit, the fact that you've dedicated your precious time compile a list of out of context quotes amuses and flatters me.
What amuses me is that you still think that you are not a living Argonath meme yourself. Get the fuck out of the SA:MP section and stay in your lane. The ping pong paddle is now off the table and you are no longer able to go back and forth as if you are a tiny precious little ball.

You don't belong in this section of the forums.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Huntsman on May 20, 2020, 03:30:08 pm
Though I must admit, the fact that you've dedicated your precious time compile a list of out of context quotes amuses and flatters me.
What amuses me is that you still think that you are not a living Argonath meme yourself. Get the fuck out of the SA:MP section and stay in your lane. The ping pong paddle is now off the table and you are no longer able to go back and forth as if you are a tiny precious little ball.

You don't belong in this section of the forums.

Ain't your place to tell me what to do and where to go, my friend.
Title: Re: What killed SA:MP Argonath RPG?
Post by: Khm on May 20, 2020, 03:35:45 pm
This is why SA:MP isn't going forward, locked.
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