Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Steve_Riptor on March 10, 2008, 12:26:18 am
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There seems to be a lot of discussions about screenshots that are used as evidence in some cased, so here's the poll question:
Do YOU think screenshots are allowed as evidence and why do you think that?
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Depends on how they are used, I guess.
If it's used to screenshot the chatlog, and the the person taking the screenshot is near / lign of sight of the ones talking. It should be allowed yes If the person is taping it. Otherwise it's really not real proof.
If the one taking the screenshot has a microphone on himself, then it should be allowed, yes.
If someone is taking a screenshot as an evidence of dealing drugs, it should not be allowed.
If the person is using a camera + screenshot, it should be allowed.
It's all about what's realistic. If you have a microphone, do for example /me puts on microphone when you're getting ready to do w/e it is you're going to do.
I mean, you're using the screenshots for a RP court. then RP the screenshots aswell. Screenshots are mainly OOC, but if you take them in a RP way, it's a whole other thing.
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Depends on how they are used, I guess.
If it's used to screenshot the chatlog, and the the person taking the screenshot is near / lign of sight of the ones talking. It should be allowed yes If the person is taping it. Otherwise it's really not real proof.
If the one taking the screenshot has a microphone on himself, then it should be allowed, yes.
If someone is taking a screenshot as an evidence of dealing drugs, it should not be allowed.
If the person is using a camera + screenshot, it should be allowed.
It's all about what's realistic. If you have a microphone, do for example /me puts on microphone when you're getting ready to do w/e it is you're going to do.
I mean, you're using the screenshots for a RP court. then RP the screenshots aswell. Screenshots are mainly OOC, but if you take them in a RP way, it's a whole other thing.
What if people are using a hidden camera? That can't be roleplayed. Or should they just get the camera out and let the criminals see they are undercover?
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What if people are using a hidden camera? That can't be roleplayed. Or should they just get the camera out and let the criminals see they are undercover?
Someone else could be taking the pictures from long distance, and the undercover could take screenies of the chatlogs. Combine them = RP pictures of someone dealing drugs :)
Imagination is a beautiful thing :D
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In real life there won't be someone who can take pictures from long distance if the undercover person is in a building (and no, you can't alway see them from the outside).
And we should be able to have hidden camera's, because that is in real life as well.
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It's all about what's realistic. If you have a microphone, do for example /me puts on microphone when you're getting ready to do w/e it is you're going to do.
also, if someone is checking you for hidden cameras / microphones, your screenshots should not be valid.
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Yes, true, but that's something else. This is about screenshots being used as evidence and not about microphones..
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Yes, true, but that's something else.
No, it's not.
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Someone else could be taking the pictures from long distance, and the undercover could take screenies of the chatlogs. Combine them = RP pictures of someone dealing drugs :)
Imagination is a beautiful thing :D
Unlike real life, it is much harder to take a picture of a drug deal or other illegal activity going on without being too far away to not see player names whilst not spooking the people involved. I think "hidden camera" is a good enough reason to make such a screen shot allowed to be used as evidence. Moreover, even if you could take photo's easier, "hidden camera" is still used in real life so it should still make the screen shot be allowed to be used as evidence.
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Yes, that's what I think too. Though there should be a screenshot too with the text of someone putting the hidden camera on/in their clothes.
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Yes, that's what I think too. Though there should be a screenshot too with the text of someone putting the hidden camera on/in their clothes.
Sight, read my post(s) again and you'll see that's exactly what I said, but I used a microphone as an example.
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also, if someone is checking you for hidden cameras / microphones, your screenshots should not be valid.
With all the money the government is getting, I'm pretty sure the FBI can afford an undetectable bug. Besides, if that were true then people would always frisk a buyer so they would never get caught. It is way to easy to avoid having your photo taken during a deal, just go to a secluded place, without microphone or hidden camera, it would be virtually impossible to get evidence.
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With all the money the government is getting, I'm pretty sure the FBI can afford an undetectable bug. Besides, if that were true then people would always frisk a buyer so they would never get caught. It is way to easy to avoid having your photo taken during a deal, just go to a secluded place, without microphone or hidden camera, it would be virtually impossible to get evidence.
The undetectable bug thingy... that would just be over-doing roleplay, taking it one step too far... It's called Metagaming? or what is it?
I just gave a perfectly good example of how they can do it.
(http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/res.nsf/23F5A569C39F0CF880257066004F6D30/$file/drug%20dealing%20web%20sized.JPG) Photo + Chatlog = this.
Roleplay.
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How is having a hidden bug metagaming?
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How is having a hidden bug metagaming?
Having a undetectable bug is. If someone is checking you for bugs they do it cause they don't "be feelin' you right" , they feel you're up to something. This means they will be going with a metal detector (or w/e they call it) checking you out.
This makes it harder for FBI to bust drug dealers, but not impossible.
Yet again, use your imagination.
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That is not necessarily metagaming, it would depend on why the person is suspicious.
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That is not necessarily metagaming, it would depend on why the person is suspicious.
What are you talking about now?
You said that the FBI could get a UNDETECTABLE bug. Now THAT would be metagaming.
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wtf? if your trying to bust someone, you bring a bug, that is not metagmaing...
unless your talking about some random walks up to you and offers you drugs. But from what I know, FBI are more involved with busting bigger people they suspect, not arresting random drug dealers. Moreover, this situation with a random person is far less likely.
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What are you talking about now?
You said that the FBI could get a :alert" :alert" :alert" UNDETECTABLE :alert" :alert" :alert" bug. Now THAT would be metagaming.
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You either don't know what I am talking about or don't know what is meta gaming.
Having the availability of a discrete bug as an FBI is not meta gaming .
Meta gaming is using something from ooc to help you in rp like walking up to a random person you do not recognise, reading their name and saying "Hello Name."
If you are FBI and your going to bust someone, you equip yourself with a bug, where is the part where ooc comes into this?
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Undetectable.
IT CAN'T BE DETECTED NO MATTER WHAT!
Metagaming.
Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.
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Metagaming.
Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.
Can you tell me exactly, which part of this quote the bug goes under?
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Well then you should have said that gives too much of an advantage, that is not metagaming.
None of that applies to having said bug.
1. In my opinion it is. As I see it, there's a unwritten rule saying you should always play fair. And that's a unfair advantage. Hence it's Metagaming.
2. Undetectable, how hard can it be to read? UNDETECTABLE.
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An undetectable bug does not go under any of the points mentioned in that quote.
Make up your mind, and stop changing your posts.
And yes, Like I said, it does.
Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.
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The definition I had of metagaming was somthing more along the lines of:
In role-playing games, metagaming is the use of out-of-character knowledge in an in-character situation. A character played by a metagamer does not act in a way that reflects the character's in-game experiences and back-story.
I never heard of that part you bolded being part of meta gaming.
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I changed my post because that definition you quoted of meta gaming including something I did not see in other ones.
Lol, changed it three times now? No problems :D
And, I awnsered your question already :P
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Ghost, we can sit here all night playing around with words and edit our posts. But that does not change the fact that having a undetectable bug is a unfair advantage.
I've already posted an alternative to it, but that you seem to ignore. There are also several other ways to bust a drug dealer, without taking it to the extreme.
And like I said before, in my opinion there's a unwritten rule about fair-play, you can say it's even written down in some ways (Hacking, bugg abusing = ban) and having the advantage of busting whoever you want, whenever you want is not fair. Therefor it should not be allowed.
If the FBI wants, I could come up with several ways for them to bust drug dealers, no problems. I got a good imagination, I can come up with allot of stuff. But as long as it's fair-play, it's cool with me. For example, if I get suspected unfairly, I will get really pissed and yell out. But if it's a fair suspection, I'll just laugh about it and do my best to get out of it (in a RP way ofcourse).
Now, having a bug, that is not detectable by anyone or anything ( a undetectable bug ) is not fair gaming. As the other co-player has no way of defending himself towards it. Now I'm not saying I'm against using bugs, cause I'm not. I like the idea, as long as it's executed in a good way(!). Cause I know that people doesn't always check people for bugs, the only reason someone would do it is if the other person seems suspicious in some way. And if this where to happen, The screenshots taken should not be valid.
PS. What you said about FBI only going after high-profile drug dealers, on argonath, this would be a false statement.
Ghost, one last thing... You have to see from the eyes of the criminal aswell, and not only from the eyes of the "good guys"
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You either don't know what I am talking about or don't know what is meta gaming.
Having the availability of a discrete bug as an FBI is not meta gaming .
Meta gaming is using something from ooc to help you in rp like walking up to a random person you do not recognise, reading their name and saying "Hello Name."
If you are FBI and your going to bust someone, you equip yourself with a bug, where is the part where ooc comes into this?
Aah, yet another very beautiful and very anoying modification of your posts.
Oh, so now it's discrete bugs? Make your mind up... I have nothing against discrete bugs, never said I did.
I said, I have a problem with, let me quoute... undetectable bug.
Maybe our definitions of meta-gaming isn't the same, or maybe mine is totally wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that it's NOT FAIR!
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The definition I had of metagaming was somthing more along the lines of:I never heard of that part you bolded being part of meta gaming.
And another modificaiton...
Acting on technical and/or scientific knowledge that the character is not or could not be aware of (such as creating gunpowder in a dark ages or middle ages setting).
Using certain types of attack or defense based on the strengths and weaknesses of a monster/other characters the character knows nothing of.
Read it and wheap. It comes from the exact same page you got your quote from.
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You need to calm down, your making too much fuss over me re-wording my posts, that is not the main issue here.
Maybe our definitions of meta-gaming isn't the same, or maybe mine is totally wrong.
This is why this discussion has been so extended.
But that doesn't change the fact that it's NOT FAIR!
For this issue of fairness, I do have an understanding for your perspective and I don't really have anything to say to argue of that so I will leave it here at this point.
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You need to calm down, your making too much fuss over me re-wording my posts, that is not the main issue here.
This is why this discussion has been so extended.
For this issue of fairness, I do have an understanding for your perspective and I don't really have anything to say to argue of that so I will leave it here at this point.
Yeah, sorry. Got a bit carried away :P, it's just that it's really annoying when you edit cause then I don't see it on "Show new replies to your posts" so I "can't" awnser it ;)
And yeah, thanks for understanding. Also, I love discussing stuff so I didn't really mind it getting extended.
Also, FBI guys... I'd be glad to give you some of my ideas for ways to bust drug dealers, cause there's soo many that doesn't involve "taking it to the next level". :)
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I vote 'YES' because its hard to change 'foto's'. It's a lawmaster chose to use it...
Greetz
- Tov.
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i vote no beacause F8 is non RP -.- aloso if u make picture then hold camera and then press F8 -.-
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i vote no beacause F8 is non RP -.- aloso if u make picture then hold camera and then press F8 -.-
I ment the camera, because your right: F8 isn't RP! But the camera does.
Greetz
-Tov.
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Well, I think this matter should be solved once and for all so it can also be put in the rules. All this fuss doesn't improve the RPing in Argonath.
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I think if you had a screenshot and cut-out trhe chat part where there is evidence, then it acts as the Agent is wearing a wire, but i still think the camera and F8 should apply for images