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Hello, lately there has been an whole big Fuss about Groups and Wars about them, as always.
I would like to create an Petition to Authorise Group Wars with some Terms, just as would happen in the real life.. Currently - if someone is even fighting a little - some level one admin will show up and Freeze you and just Ruin it, People understand how it works, if you ever were part of it.. Although I do encourage perfect Roleplay in the Group War between two or more diffrent groups. Hereby I want to create a Petition to Authorise Gang Wars,
What does Gang Wars create for situations?
+ Situations
More Roleplay Experiences for Police.
More Roleplay Experiences for Groups.
More Roleplay Experiences for Civilians (People that watch and can hide)
EDIT: adds awesome situations for SWAT
- Situations
Revenge Killing (Could be Monitored.. )
Complaints from one side (Probably the one who lost BUT Authorising it may fix it )
Famous Quote:
Our problems with gang wars that we tried in the past have been this:
- As soon as a war ends people start thinking of new 'reasons' (three of ours were killed so we will revenge them is one of the worst) and gather for the next war. This gives the impression of a DM server especially if it happens near places where many new players are. Gang wars should be treated serious and limited.
- People have complained when they lost, or have complained because of SWAT/ARPD intervention and suspecting those partaking.
- Gang wars have nothing at stake. In real life gang wars are not frequent, because people die and nobody wants to lose his life without reason.
Gang wars should be something people enjoy, not something that pisses off half the players and admins. If you can work out something together, we are not against.
-Ideas how to make Gang Wars work out:
Idea from Cofilianio:
2 hours none return after death
-No Whining/Spamming Main Chat.
-Roleplay Reason/ Something at Stake.
-Try to EVADE populated places ( LSPD, GS9 etc etc )
-Must NOT have Random atack on other group members
More Ideas:
Idea from NitrOx:
Okay guys, so I was at work today and I thinked the whole thing trough.
I am (attempting) to create an Agreement with every Group in the Server about Group Wars.
The agreement is as followed : No more Complaining / Flaming / Whining in Main Chat towards admins on groups.
Use /PM or Personal Forum Message and MSN to complain.
Current groups that have agreed to this are:
Stracci, Gvardia, Corleone, Cems, Araatus, Luvineri
If you want to agree with this Suggestion post here and I hope we can make a conclusion on this soon.
Thank you
As for all the Professional Famillies: If you see a Revenge Killer at ANY side what-so-ever, he will be immediately Kicked from Group to reduce it.
Agreed Groups:
Stracci
Araatus
Gvardia
Silence
Corleone
Cems
Luvineri
Please, leave your Vote and your Name that you have voted in this Topic and click Yes or No at the Vote.
Thank you.
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I voted yes, think it might be a good idea.
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Out of curiousity, which 'level one admin' were you referring to?
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No comment ;)
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I voted yes, This should happen or why does mafia have enemies ? Huh ? just to say " hey you are my enemy " and walk away ? Come on!
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Yes
and
No comment ;)
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Meh.
Green Party
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Within reason, all gang wars should be allowed! It's an RP server and we are RPing a Mafia/Gang member's life; gang member's are not going to just ignore each other and walk away!
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I don't think a petition will work :D
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One of the goals is to SOME of the Terms & Rules of this subject to be changed but it should be discussed between ALL players of community in my opinion, (Refferrendum)
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I voted yes. if gang wars aren't allowed then what r gangs for, what r bullets for, what r all the police for. we can RP this, gang wars happen irl
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YES..
greetings Scat
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Voted yes - reason? no comment.
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I vote yes , Gang Wars may bring some fun and actions for everyone ;)
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There is one Question for everyone, I want everyone to think about it CAREFULLY :
How can it become a fight, without becoming Constant 24/7, without it getting out of hand (Flame, Complains, Admins Acting Tough).
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 01:42:05 pm
People, give your thoughts: What should a Gang War be about?
Some ideas:
Before having a official war, have something at stake (HQ, Business)
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simple, after you die there is NO coming back! at least for another 2 hours and there is no attacking people who have died.
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Yes, This is RP server and we act like IRL..and IRL theres gangs/mafias...and they fight each other
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It's interesting how you work Nitrox, you say Gang war is allowed if admins observes it, so far you make your "fights" without inform any admin, admins find it out themselves what your up to. then you start complain when we tell you to not have one cos you did not inform any admin or contacted them in first case.
Your word is against what you do ingame.. How much trust do you think you get by that?
Now you start a topic that is already made on SA:MP group section..
ADD: I have no problems with "gang wars" if all parties can agree of the terms and make it in a fair way. Not return after death, let dead players leave scene without get shoot at and die 3 times more..
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Actually, this is a petition! And this is something diffrent then what I am doing in-game, Now I had a nice discussion with Mr president (gdalf) and we try to make a plan for this! Try to make it work!
But thanks for your reaction Pancher! (Redcat) :devroll:
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Why do you people even want gang wars? Gang wars only prove one thing - how bad the roleplaying skill of the participants really is...
Just because you're in a gang, you think you should have gang wars? Why can't you just go to a deathmatch server and fight there?
I for one am voting NO on this...because the reason we have the current rules is to stop moaning, provoking, deathmatching, revenge killing, complaints, etc...
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David, it is part of everything, when you had your Zaibatsu Corporation you liked to have a "war" against me with Razor, for example that one time in Blueberry where I got ambushed, I think it should be possible to do but why go to a DM server for doing Gangwars? There are no /me Commands to Imply, atleast here you can Roleplay Guns, SWAT, etc etc..
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This is my reason for No
Yes IF it was rped... But you see, people like to complain too much.. i remember old days when we(Montanas) kidnapped Pope Elrond.. he got barely alive, 2 days after it Corleones led by Daniel came,kidnaped us 3 and draged us to mountain to torture us,ofc last words from Daniel were: Greeting from pope..
thats was rped war, we liked it, all who were in it, But what do people call gang war today? 5 guys with same tag chill out and talk in a area of ls minding thier own business, 15 guys with another tag come armed more than Rambo himself and Come gunning in like its World War 3! First group starts reporting,then friends of first group come to join(also armed), second group starts to report like crazy..
Now tell me this: New guy comes to server what does he see? a role play Or just some random Deathmatch server? Ofc he grabs guns and joins the "fun"
That is why NO Gang wars! (at least until people realise the point...)
I think i even answered why server downt allow it, read it carefully, it says all...
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David, it is part of everything, when you had your Zaibatsu Corporation you liked to have a "war" against me with Razor, for example that one time in Blueberry where I got ambushed, I think it should be possible to do but why go to a DM server for doing Gangwars? There are no /me Commands to Imply, atleast here you can Roleplay Guns, SWAT, etc etc..
That wasn't a gang war...that was some of our guys getting revenge for something you guys did in a roleplay situation
A gang war is when for hardly much of a reason, 2 or more gangs start shooting each other just to see who is best - without any roleplay
It is impossible to agree more with cDa
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I also believe the "They attacked us for an hour ago" or "They killed ___ and ___ before, let's call all we can get to counter attack cos they killed someone this morning.." It's just an endless war.
I don't know if you nitrox remember when Stracci and Gvardia spend a afew days only to fight each others.. And i had alot of complaints and it ended i had to make both sides stop rp with each others for a day or two to calm down the situation, including all flaming over the forums. Hopefully people can take that in consideration to make future "RP" better.
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- 2 hours none return after death
- No atacking 30 vs 1-2 online
-NO MOANING OR SPAMING PUBLIC CHAT
-Have to HAVE BIG RP reason for it
-Try to EVADE populated places ( LSPD, GS9 etc etc )
-Keep involved only people from EACH group ( + 1or 2 person), not having 10 alieds group on one side, and 10 alieds group on other, cause then its half of server vs half of server
-Must NOT have Random atack on other group members
This is the RULES we use vs Stracci, Vs Araatus ( since its 20 min none return cause Panda wants it like that), you NEVER gonna hearda complain, unless if someone breaks does rules. All Groups shoud give there opinion, woud they fallow this SIMPLE rules...
and yes, its EASY like that gentlmans....
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That wasn't a gang war...that was some of our guys getting revenge for something you guys did in a roleplay situation
A gang war is when for hardly much of a reason, 2 or more gangs start shooting each other just to see who is best - without any roleplay
It is impossible to agree more with cDa
No, David you are wrong, as I am describing this term: GangWar as Roleplaying (Using /me Commands)
Also, would that not be called Revenge Killing? Actually - It was Roleplayed Nicely, but perhaps you should know EVERY group in the server is roleplaying, if it is by phone or something, Group Wars ALLWAYS get announced, but there is one Problem as cDa said which I agreed in: The Mass Complaints and Flame, that is one problem, but will that block so many players from having a good time on server? Also I am trying to get NEW terms and perhaps RULES which will make it WORK so instead of complaining at this topic, yes David, please get some FREAKING IDEAS how to FIX IT instead of DISALLOWING it.
Thanks
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And NitrOx, a petition won't prove anything or get anything solved
You're objective is to prove to administration that the players want gang wars - well we already know this and are sticking to our guns here
The rules are in place to make EVERYONE happy, especially administration which has to deal with an absolute barrage of complaints every time someone kills someone else
We really don't like it when someone makes a petition saying things like "the players want it, let us have it" when it just defeats the object...
If all of us can control ourselves (me with [Z] just a small example) and not go around shooting each other and instead only do so in a very organised roleplay situation, then everyone will be happy...
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Yes.
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David, What I am Trying to Imply in this topic is: Getting IDEAS from EVERYONE COMMUNITY-WIDE, not just the ADMIN TEAM, because EVERYONE IN THE SERVER is basically human (except for pancher who is a cat) It is sort of a Refferendum, getting EVERYONES Opinion and EVERYONE IDEAS and CREATING the BEST IDEA out of it, so could you please, and yes david omid, you too, post some IDEAS because I think the system we are using for gang wars right now - Stinks.
Thank you, please post ideas.
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No, David you are wrong, as I am describing this term: GangWar as Roleplaying (Using /me Commands)
Also, would that not be called Revenge Killing? Actually - It was Roleplayed Nicely, but perhaps you should know EVERY group in the server is roleplaying, if it is by phone or something, Group Wars ALLWAYS get announced, but there is one Problem as cDa said which I agreed in: The Mass Complaints and Flame, that is one problem, but will that block so many players from having a good time on server? Also I am trying to get NEW terms and perhaps RULES which will make it WORK so instead of complaining at this topic, yes David, please get some FREAKING IDEAS how to FIX IT instead of DISALLOWING it.
Thanks
1. everyone has a different definition of the words "gang war" - to some it is a roleplay event, to others it is team deathmatch
2. well considering we didn't die, it wasn't revenge killing...we were getting revenge for something else
3. gang wars do not get announced to admins for example, which is why we don't allow most of it as we have no idea what the hell is going on when a load of reports come through
4. if blocking complaints means blocking two or three gangs from shooting each other, so be it
5. we are not complaining, we are giving OUR opinion just like you are giving YOURS
6. here's my idea which suits pretty much everyone - disallow it. We don't need to think of ideas which will allow it, just because you want us to...
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Well David, thanks for your idea -
Belive me I have tried to announce it to Administration, even today, Answer: NO, NO, NO.
I would like EVERYONE to give THEYRE own IDEAS! and then make a MERGE of all the ideas, I want EVERYONE in the COMMUNITY to TRY things, because what happens if people doesnt try anything? You dont get to success, I am trying to create success out of this Subject and will think very well about few terms to allow it! So that it will be fun for everybody!
Thank you
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1. everyone has a different definition of the words "gang war" - to some it is a roleplay event, to others it is team deathmatch
2. well considering we didn't die, it wasn't revenge killing...we were getting revenge for something else
3. gang wars do not get announced to admins for example, which is why we don't allow most of it as we have no idea what the hell is going on when a load of reports come through
4. if blocking complaints means blocking two or three gangs from shooting each other, so be it
5. we are not complaining, we are giving OUR opinion just like you are giving YOURS
6. here's my idea which suits pretty much everyone - disallow it. We don't need to think of ideas which will allow it, just because you want us to...
It just soooooo easy to make this working nice without lots of effort......
I hear by in the name of Gvardia, declare that our Family will stick to the fallowing rules, with our combat situation with other criminal and RP groups:
- 2 hours none return after death
- No atacking 30 vs 1-2 online
-NO MOANING OR SPAMING PUBLIC CHAT
-Have to HAVE BIG RP reason for it
-Try to EVADE populated places ( LSPD, GS9 etc etc )
-Keep involved only people from EACH group ( + 1or 2 person), not having 10 alieds group on one side, and 10 alieds group on other, cause then its half of server vs half of server
-Must NOT have Random atack on other group members
If you dont like this, fine, dont RP with us, if you do , acept them from your side, notify Us, and lets just have some pure fun...
See? Easy...
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Our problems with gang wars that we tried in the past have been this:
- As soon as a war ends people start thinking of new 'reasons' (three of ours were killed so we will revenge them is one of the worst) and gather for the next war. This gives the impression of a DM server especially if it happens near places where many new players are. Gang wars should be treated serious and limited.
- People have complained when they lost, or have complained because of SWAT/ARPD intervention and suspecting those partaking.
- Gang wars have nothing at stake. In real life gang wars are not frequent, because people die and nobody wants to lose his life without reason.
Gang wars should be something people enjoy, not something that pisses off half the players and admins. If you can work out something together, we are not against.
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Voted no.
Gang wars would induce deathmatching. The word 'war' will just make people go bananas and get guns to kill each other, because of a gang war. While actually no one thinks about making a 'gang war' without guns and killing each other...
It just soooooo easy to make this working nice without lots of effort......
Easiest is to go to a deathmatch server.
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Voted no.
Gang wars would induce deathmatching. The word 'war' will just make people go bananas and get guns to kill each other, because of a gang war. While actually no one thinks about making a 'gang war' without guns and killing each other...
Easiest is to go to a deathmatch server.
Why shoud we go to DM server ? why dont you go to other server then forcing us to go ? Are we gonna in danger you ? Yes if you come in the midle of it, but honsetly? NO. So dont force us out and destory our way of RP, cause its more then SHOTING, and its none of your bizz, so please stay a side..
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Grzesiek, you are missing the WHOLE point, this is not about New Players Gang- Wars, this is about GROUP Wars, groups that Have Experience in Argonath RPG and know how to handle it, Now I am trying to work something out with EVERYONE, as it seems, the more people are agreeing then disagreeing so in my opinion like Gandalf stated, we should work something out, so EVERYONE if you have IDEAS please post them now and I will post them at this Topics Main Page so that we can remember them at one place.
Thanks
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 02:15:36 pm
Yes, it is more then shooting alone, it is about Integrity of players and Roleplay. Also of enjoying some actioninstead of the old-fashioned Cop-Can-Kill-Criminals-All-Day-Oh-My-God-Lame-way.
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groups that Have Experience in Argonath RPG and know how to handle it
What kind of experience? Know how to handle what?
If you are honestly suggesting that only older groups should be allowed to have gang wars, then think of the complaints...
And no, you guys can't handle it - every time there has been a gang war there have been complaints
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What kind of experience? Know how to handle what?
If you are honestly suggesting that only older groups should be allowed to have gang wars, then think of the complaints...
And no, you guys can't handle it - every time there has been a gang war there have been complaints
David, you are still so smart but yet so thinking ignorant, I am not implying that older groups only may have group wars, I am implying that EVERY Group may have a WAR;
As long as it is a group, as you stated; everyone will go boom banana boom on each other, you are wrong, there are civilians aswell.
Now let's focus on getting ideas please.
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 02:19:21 pm
Experience in NOT complaining, in NOT flaming, in ROLEPLAYING during wars.
:)
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What kind of experience? Know how to handle what?
If you are honestly suggesting that only older groups should be allowed to have gang wars, then think of the complaints...
And no, you guys can't handle it - every time there has been a gang war there have been complaints
David, you are still so smart but yet so thinking ignorant, I am not implying that older groups only may have group wars, I am implying that EVERY Group may have a WAR;
As long as it is a group, as you stated; everyone will go boom banana boom on each other, you are wrong, there are civilians aswell.
Now let's focus on getting ideas please.
What DID you mean when you said something about experience?
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I allready posted..
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Experience in NOT complaining, in NOT flaming, in ROLEPLAYING during wars.
Oh, in that case, nobody can have gang wars according to that
Simply because EVERYONE complaints, flames and there is ALWAYS a lack in roleplay as everyone is shooting...
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Why shoud we go to DM server ? why dont you go to other server then forcing us to go ? Are we gonna in danger you ? Yes if you come in the midle of it, but honsetly? NO. So dont force us out and destory our way of RP, cause its more then SHOTING, and its none of your bizz, so please stay a side..
First of all, he do not force you, he suggest you can move to an Death Match server.
Second of all, you need to follow the Argonath Rules and RP after them, not make your own rules and refer to them. IF you have some guidelines that you follow to make the Rp easier under the Argonath Rules, go for it.
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Oh, in that case, nobody can have gang wars according to that
Simply because EVERYONE complaints, flames and there is ALWAYS a lack in roleplay as everyone is shooting...
David, that is one of the goals I am trying to imply here;
-Stop the Complaints.
-Stop the Flaming
-There is NOT always a lack in roleplay allready so that doesnt really needs fixing, because currently at this rate; the Main Groups ARE having lots and lots of roleplay in it.
Thank you.
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Also i can already see that does side you stated follows those rules doesn't follow it Cofi..
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I would like to ask everyone to post an Suggestion.
Suggestions should not be: Fuck off and go to a DM server/Not allowed.
Please ausggestion which fixes it.
:ps:
pancher = redcat
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I agree with everyone lol.
Gang wars are good if done right, with good RP reason, without flaming/complain/returning from deaths.
BUT, that is VERY unlikely that no complais will come, because people will get back to there after dieing.
I voted no, because flaming/complains will come with gang wars...
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many suggestions are good, but problem is, are everyone ready to follow these if it would go live and be used, is there something that should be more or less strict of them?
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I agree with everyone lol.
Gang wars are good if done right, with good RP reason, without flaming/complain/returning from deaths.
BUT, that is VERY unlikely that no complais will come, because people will get back to there after dieing.
I voted no, because flaming/complains will come with gang wars...
Kessu as I stated: Im trying to find something for Flaming/Complain/Returning from deaths.
How about this? Flame = Ban - Complain = Ban - Revenge kill = Ban.
:)
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David, that is one of the goals I am trying to imply here;
-Stop the Complaints.
-Stop the Flaming
-There is NOT always a lack in roleplay allready so that doesnt really needs fixing, because currently at this rate; the Main Groups ARE having lots and lots of roleplay in it.
Thank you.
Administration has been achieving this goal for a long time...know how?
By disallowing it...simple
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-Stop the Complaints.
-Stop the Flaming
-There is NOT always a lack in roleplay allready so that doesnt really needs fixing, because currently at this rate; the Main Groups ARE having lots and lots of roleplay in it.
This is our Goal^
This is a EXAMPLE, with lots of Edit how shoud we do it :
2 hours none return after death
- No atacking 30 vs 1-2 online
-NO MOANING OR SPAMING PUBLIC CHAT
-Have to HAVE BIG RP reason for it
-Try to EVADE populated places ( LSPD, GS9 etc etc )
-Keep involved only people from EACH group ( + 1or 2 person), not having 10 alieds group on one side, and 10 alieds group on other, cause then its half of server vs half of server
-Must NOT have Random atack on other group members
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Yes, David, the Administration, but Argonath RPG isn't Communist State, we are a DEMOCRACY, and do you know what holding back the wars will give? Complaints, Complaints, Complaints; I am trying to get a conclusion to this PROBLEM with EVERYONE INVOLVED ! instead of only the Administration! As I stated: WE ALL ARE HUMAN, AND WE ALL HAVE RIGHTS TO DO THINGS AND TO THINK!
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 02:31:53 pm
Cofi, I think the 2 Hours should be changed towards 4 Hours or so.
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I say gang wars should not be allowed.
:ps: Banning for complaining...
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Gee, Kessu, have you ever been in an Gang War? Probably not since you just immigrated into San Andreas Multiplayer; if you would know the Enjoyment it gives people you would most likely agree - but I have a suggestion for now:
Allow Wars under following terms:
Do not complain
Do not flame
Do not moan
Do not whine
For Admins:
Do not interrupt it by freezing;
Do not start discussion.
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 02:35:34 pm
It is VERY simple: Flame=Ban, Main Chat Discussion = Ban.
Perhaps implying that would fix it.
Please more suggestions.
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NitrOx i am fine with 24 hours if thats wanted, but i know other groups will say : OMFG 2 hours!? So please people, represenitive of other Crimnal Group, make YOUR sugestion, of how shoud this work out...
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Gee, Kessu, have you ever been in an Gang War? Probably not since you just immigrated into San Andreas Multiplayer; if you would know the Enjoyment it gives people you would most likely agree - but I have a suggestion for now:
Allow Wars under following terms:
Do not complain
Do not flame
Do not moan
Do not whine
For Admins:
Do not interrupt it by freezing;
Do not start discussion.
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 02:35:34 pm
It is VERY simple: Flame=Ban, Main Chat Discussion = Ban.
Perhaps implying that would fix it.
Please more suggestions.
I have been, sorry if it is disappointment to you.
In VCMP, where is EAF and Montana, they do gamg wars right. No coming back from deaths, cops are allowed to join, nobody from other groups. There can be 10vs5, no matter with players, the one matters is, that how it is done and what are the results.
VCMP EAF vs Montana gang war, not even one complain, not even one flame, not even one coming back from deaths, IT IS done right, but in SAMP, as there is new players that WILL join to fight, because they don't know it's gang war, they straight think it's TDM.
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Kessu, VC-MP is a Small Community,
San Andreas Multiplayer is a HUGE Community, it has to be controlled way BIGGER and it is VERY VERY VERY different the VC-MP.
Thank you
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Kessu, VC-MP is a Small Community,
San Andreas Multiplayer is a HUGE Community, it has to be controlled way BIGGER and it is VERY VERY VERY different the VC-MP.
Thank you
I know, gang wars are also WAY more harder to control, because there is 80+ players to take care of, add gang war to there, it's almost impossible.
Believe I know how it feels to be admin and checking 15+ alone, that is the situation in SAMP right now. One admin checks 15 players.
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What I meant with my comment about going to a DM server was that it's the easiest and least problematic way of having a gang war. Instead of posting topics like this or making gang wars without admins knowing about it, you could just go to a DM server and settle it there. Oh, and you wouldn't waste money on weapons.
And the second point is that all I've seen from gang wars is team deathmatch with some additional rules. And don't try to say it's not TDM, because a group vs group shoot-out IS a TDM. And a 'war' is not only shooting at others. You should try some other things, eg. stealing the other mafia's cars from their HQ or something... of course to prevent whining you should talk about it and make it 2-way (first round A steals from B, second round it's vice versa).
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Go to a DM server? Oh please, here is a little list of what we would miss out on:
- /me Commands
- Police/SWAT trying to get the situation under control
- Negotiating
- Roleplay Situations for Civilians (/hide etc)
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 02:54:39 pm
In real life weapons are NOT free at all by the way.
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Go to a DM server? Oh please, here is a little list of what we would miss out on:
- /me Commands
- Police/SWAT trying to get the situation under control
- Negotiating
- Roleplay Situations for Civilians (/hide etc)
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 04:54:39 am
In real life weapons are NOT free at all by the way.
If you want /me commands, make your own server with your OWN /me command!
If you want police/SWAT, go to a deathmatch server with police and SWAT
negotiation never happens in gang wars
you say you want civilians in your gang war? Oh please...no civilian would want to stay around in a gang war to roleplay
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support
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David, again you are just telling us the following:
"You want Gangwars? Fuck off to another server"
How is that good for the Popularity of Roleplay?
I want to imply this, and if we will do what you try to imply; the server will go empty, because YOU have told everyone to go to an other server.
Well guess what? People dont want to go to another server, why go to another server if you can have ALL in one? Argonath : SWAT, Police, Negotiating, Mafia's etcetera etcetera, it is all part of the Argonath RPG Space Time Continueum.
Thank you
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 03:04:18 pm
But that's ok David, you may think what you think, but obviously the Majority of the server thinks diffrent then you.
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I voted yes, reasons for this is simply because it has great potential for roleplay within certain boundries.
For example, two gangs. Grove Street VS Vagos (or w/e) and Grove Street is thinking of stealing one of their hoods, just call an admin. Ask the other party to agree on it, and fight away. The one that wins gets the territory.
However, as I said. Certain boundries should be attained. Like.. only 1 gangwar per gang / a day. Or something similair. Let gangs/mafia's/groups fight about territory etcetera.
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Paruni exists for a reason, NitrOx...
But that's ok David, you may think what you think, but obviously the Majority of the server thinks diffrent then you.
My opinion is that of pretty much every administrator on this server who doesn't want to sit around all day answering sodding reports because YOU people can't sort things out! A reason why it was disallowed in the first place...
Do I care that non-admins don't agree with us? Frankly I don't...they have NO IDEA how hard doing our job is...
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Paruni exists for a reason, NitrOx...
My opinion is that of pretty much every administrator on this server who doesn't want to sit around all day answering sodding reports because YOU people can't sort things out! A reason why it was disallowed in the first place...
Do I care that non-admins don't agree with us? Frankly I don't...they have NO IDEA how hard doing our job is...
If doing your job is so hard for you - why do you not quit it?
Your last sentence shows you dont even give a flying fuck about the Non-Admins and only care about yourself and how much work you want to do.
Paralel Universe is a DM server for DMing without Roleplay, PURE DM as -so called.
I am talking here about Gangwars with Roleplay as I stated a Million Times with all the possibillities :)
:ps:
I find that a Great idea from you Mafs;
Suggestion: Create Territorrial Map in-game - updated weekly or something.
:)
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I find that a Great idea from you Mafs;
Suggestion: Create Territorrial Map in-game - updated weekly or something.
:)
That sounds like a pure team dm server. "Let's take over there turf" bettter the gangs themselves try to update each others without script for it..
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Thank you for your Opposite Delay Suggestion :)
Suggestion failed,
open for new suggestions .
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If doing your job is so hard for you - why do you not quit it?
Your last sentence shows you dont even give a flying f**k about the Non-Admins and only care about yourself and how much work you want to do.
Paralel Universe is a DM server for DMing without Roleplay, PURE DM as -so called.
I am talking here about Gangwars with Roleplay as I stated a Million Times with all the possibillities :)
1. I will never quit my admin job because I enjoy it, despite it being stressful and unrewarding
2. Of course I care about non-admins, why do you think I'm an admin? We help non-admins...
3. You can still use Paruni for roleplay if you really want
4. The possibilities (lots more complaints, reports, moaning) are endless!
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Hmm, It could be a idea.. But i think it will be hard to control =s..
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1. I will never quit my admin job because I enjoy it, despite it being stressful and unrewarding
2. Of course I care about non-admins, why do you think I'm an admin? We help non-admins...
3. You can still use Paruni for roleplay if you really want
4. The possibilities (lots more complaints, reports, moaning) are endless!
Yet you keep getting to the same point over and over again: What am I creating this topic for? To try and find a solution; You just implied in your previous reply that you do not care about non-admin opinions, The Possibillities are alot of roleplay reasons, one of the goals i am trying to achieve here is Less Complaints, Reports and Moaning, and whatever you say, I will keep on going and I do not tolerate it that you want our server to be split into two to go to some DM server; Now;
This is a Request to Everyone:
Please TRY and STOP complaining/FLAMING/MOANING in the main chat during wars, How about we try how that will work out?
Thank you
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I don't want to effect any decision how Gangs/Mafia and Groups RP or how they want to run there business with taking over others area, turf, business and etc since i'm not RP much more then a cop.. Except hooker ;)..
But my statements i make is to make it, in my point of view, easier both for players and admins so they can relax and have fun instead of long investigation/talks why someone did like that, how did they do and etc..
I believe admins should be able to trust regulars and there RP without have to control or observe everything that is going on in attempt to minimize complains, troubles and other effects that can be related..
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Please TRY and STOP complaining/FLAMING/MOANING in the main chat during wars, How about we try how that will work out?
This has already been tried over and over in the past and has failed - how is it different now all of a sudden?
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Pancher, I totally agree.
David: The past is the past, the future is the future, I am trying and I will not give up hope, Ever.
thank you
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Pancher, I totally agree.
David: The past is the past, the future is the future, I am trying and I will not give up hope, Ever.
thank you
I agree with David, if you want gang wars - goto Paruni, if you want to RP - come to Argonath.
Our job is REALLY HARD and you don't know it, because you are reqular non-admin. We do care about non-admins as much as we do care about our-selves, but why make admins job even harder with gang wars? I think our job is hard enough without gang wars already...
Even I don't do much as Admin/Moderator, which I told Gimli already, but I know it IS hard to make the job. And we don't just quit admin job, what would server be if every admin just quits the job, because it's hard?
Only way to know how hard admin work truly is to be admin yourself.
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So you are implying because you are an admin you are an "better" person/roleplayer then all of us non admins? if you have SO MUCH problems with DOING HARD WORK AS AN ADMIN why dont you just quit? As I stated before - We are here to create Roleplay Situations, Good Organised Wars create Roleplay Situations for everyone, and are you just here to spoil that? Please..
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So you are implying because you are an admin you are an "better" person/roleplayer then all of us non admins? if you have SO MUCH problems with DOING HARD WORK AS AN ADMIN why dont you just quit? As I stated before - We are here to create Roleplay Situations, Good Organised Wars create Roleplay Situations for everyone, and are you just here to spoil that? Please..
I never said I'm better than non-admins and read what I post D:
And we don't just quit admin job, what would server be if every admin just quits the job, because it's hard?
I can answer to that, just pure rulebreaking.
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Well, so let me get this straight; Administration is complaining that people complain, so actually everyone complains.
Let's just stop complaining from now on and live with what we have in our control and what we can do.
Please people, get ideas and post them here.
Thanks
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David, if Gandalf sayed he will allow it IF CRIMINAL GROUPs, make a MUTUAL rules, wich doesnt break curent Argonath rules, what problem you have? Just drop it and let us organize this nice...
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So you are implying because you are an admin you are an "better" person/roleplayer then all of us non admins? if you have SO MUCH problems with DOING HARD WORK AS AN ADMIN why dont you just quit? As I stated before - We are here to create Roleplay Situations, Good Organised Wars create Roleplay Situations for everyone, and are you just here to spoil that? Please..
1. he NEVER said he was a better person or roleplayer, what the hell are you talking about?
2. he explained why we don't quit...
3. gang wars are never roleplay situations on Argonath, they turn to tears and absolute team deathmatch which never ends
4. we are not here to spoil anything, we are here to give our opinion
David, if Gandalf sayed he will allow it IF CRIMINAL GROUPs, make a MUTUAL rules, wich doesnt break curent Argonath rules, what problem you have? Just drop it and let us organize this nice...
I'm allowed an opinion...
And even if Gandalf allows it, I'm not going to be one of those admins who watches every gang war and answers reports from people moaning about it going wrong, I have other (and frankly higher priority) admin/scripter jobs to do
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What mine suggestion is:
Make a gang war with both sides of agreement in OOC. If someone disagrees, don't force them to do it. You can't force RP Someone.
Also, no whining, flaming, revenge killing and/or discussion.
Simple and fast.
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Avoid Populated areas... ok lets go to LV City since the Newbie spawn was changed and it's now a Ghost City
Territorial map sounds good, but wouldn't we have people gloating "PWNED! we stole your Territory!!!!! You fucking suck!" that's a downside to having it but if all Gangs weregiven an equal amount obviously depending on what they owned in that City some might have bigger area's some might not.
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Remember that theese are only suggestions at the moment, and current rules still applies...
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...Petitions don't work....?
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...Petitions don't work....?
The results of the petition still need to be supported by the server owners...
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Even if Gandalf accpets gang wars, it still needs to be accepted by admins(?)
If so, I'm not the one who will give permission to it and I will ignore complains/flamings/revenge kills/ any other what is the result of gang war.
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Kessu, remember, it is not only about YOU it is about the whole community ;) And it is not about one person. Admins have same rights as normal players!
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I vote for yes and it can be a great thing for those small area gangs/mafias to own something big if they won the war. like the gang war in SP when you need to conquer the territories of LS.
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Yes.
Obviously support. Same as every criminal and cop should.
Warning: The following post is extremely long.
Go get a scone or something.
Why do you people even want gang wars? Gang wars only prove one thing - how bad the roleplaying skill of the participants really is...
You've never been in a criminal mafia/gang group within alliance structures, so you can't make that (incorrect) point.
Just because you're in a gang, you think you should have gang wars?
Of course, that is one of the main reasons you join a gang, no?
Why can't you just go to a deathmatch server and fight there?
Because, quite frankly, I don't want to have to disconnect, go onto a sucky DM server where others can mess us up, without admins, and without the ability to control retards who return after death - when I could just go to the bloody ammunation and pull up at their HQ 10 minutes later.
I for one am voting NO on this...because the reason we have the current rules is to stop moaning, provoking, deathmatching, revenge killing, complaints, etc...
And a great job its doing, eh?
People will always whine like children - at least allowing gangwars will silence the people who are reasonable.
1. everyone has a different definition of the words "gang war" - to some it is a roleplay event, to others it is team deathmatch
Either of which are good, especially when combined.
6. here's my idea which suits pretty much everyone - disallow it.
The issue with this statement is that this doesn't suit everyone. Gangwars f**king rock, and disallowing it makes every single gang/mafia member a very unhappy bunny.
Gangs who cry and moan when they get attacked should be banned. Only people who return from death should be reported. Constant attacking should be allowed. If you can't defend yourselves as a gang 24/7, then you suck.
People have complained when they lost, or have complained because of SWAT/ARPD intervention and suspecting those partaking.
Well as I said above, people should not complain if they 'lose' and especially not when the SWAT get involved. I mean, half the reason we do it is so that we can have a nice roleplay with the other gang along with the ARPD.
Look at the Battle of Angel Pine, we crashed the bloody server because we were all fighting - and it bloody rocked 100%.
Easiest is to go to a deathmatch server.
No, going to a deathmatch server is bloody annoying, because you have to organise with the other gang "Ok, now you guys we will fight then, meet up to kill each other : ) : ) : )" which is totally unrealistic and crap. Attacks should be unexpected and brutal, but expect equal brutality as a reply.
Simply because EVERYONE complaints
I resent that bullshit statement, the Araatus Yakuza never complains at being attacked and I personally have never, ever filed a /report or email, or moaned in public chat, about being attacked. It you win, then good for you! If you die, even hilariously within about 7 seconds, then suck it up and prepare to retaliate.
Administration has been achieving this goal for a long time...know how?
By disallowing it...simple
Sadly however, every single gang resents this rubbish rule and blatantly steps on it when they please. The few times when the hammer comes down are when people get pissed.
Oh, and you wouldn't waste money on weapons.
The monetary aspect of gangwars is one of the most important things about them. A rich gang can engage in war with a large (but poor) gang to bleed them of all their money. Money makes gangwars interesting, weighing the risk ("shall I spend this on weapons, or not and end up maybe getting killed?").
And don't try to say it's not TDM, because a group vs group shoot-out IS a TDM.
Yes... I don't think anybody has ever tried to dispute that. :conf:
You should try some other things, eg. stealing the other mafia's cars from their HQ or something...
Killing them creates far less of a problem, the example you mentioned strikes me as being very immature, but maybe thats just me, the guy who kicks for carjacking.
If you want /me commands, make your own server with your OWN /me command!
Huh?
If you want police/SWAT, go to a deathmatch server with police and SWAT
That doesn't even make any sense.
negotiation never happens in gang wars
Wrong.
you say you want civilians in your gang war? Oh please...no civilian would want to stay around in a gang war to roleplay
Correct, they would run away.
Please don't try to tell me that a civilian in the crossfire can't just run off in SA-MP, where the desync is heavy enough as it is. Most civilians who die in gangwars, are actually not innocent bystanders. They are part of it or sitting around to watch (which is their own silly choice).
Paruni exists for a reason, NitrOx...
Are you seriously asking us to take our serious gangwar to Paruni? Really?
Damn, the weapons don't even cost any money. And you can't paint your cars. And you got the wrong skin. Probably the wrong name too. Also, you have to share the IP - which is just a bitch. Also you have to organise a time for the fight with your rivals, which is just retarded on so many levels.
Not so simple, really.
My opinion is that of pretty much every administrator on this server who doesn't want to sit around all day answering sodding reports because YOU people can't sort things out!
Speak for yourself, plenty of admins will agree to allow gangwars. I've never dealt with a gangwar report that wasn't valid before.
Do I care that non-admins don't agree with us? Frankly I don't...they have NO IDEA how hard doing our job is...
So basically, you're saying that you don't care about the players?
Sure our job is hard, but don't go saying that just because you seem to have issues handling these 'reports' (which I've never actually seen materialise) that other admins have the same issues. We're no different to the players, sure we have a job to do - but that shouldn't shift our opinion just because of the possibility of a (frankly, phantom) workload that may or may not materialise should the rules change.
1. I will never quit my admin job because I enjoy it, despite it being stressful and unrewarding
I don't find admin work that stressful, I like the challenge. Also, if you feel that it is unrewarding, then you are looking at it in all the wrong ways :(.
3. You can still use Paruni for roleplay if you really want
Not really.
There isn't even a local chat, or a /me command. Fundamental scripts for SA-MP style roleplaying (no, don't throw MTA:VC in my face please).
Or a bunch of other things that I mentioned above.
4. The possibilities (lots more complaints, reports, moaning) are endless!
Really? I just can't seem to get myself behind this idea.
I agree with David, if you want gang wars - goto Paruni, if you want to RP - come to Argonath.
I don't get what you mean. Wars are a fundamental part of Gang/Mafia/Group roleplay.
We do want to roleplay. We're on Argonath. Roleplaying a gang involves fighting sometimes!
Our job is REALLY HARD and you don't know it, because you are reqular non-admin. We do care about non-admins as much as we do care about our-selves, but why make admins job even harder with gang wars? I think our job is hard enough without gang wars already...
As an admin for many months, I can solidly say that the benefits outweigh any potential problems.
Only way to know how hard admin work truly is to be admin yourself.
Which I hope makes my above statement hold a lot more water.
Make a gang war with both sides of agreement in OOC. If someone disagrees, don't force them to do it. You can't force RP Someone.
Totally. If a gang makes a serious OOC effort to avoid gangwars, then they can easily do that. As long as they don't becomes enemies with anybody, they should be left alone (although, that said, doing that gimps your gang totally - which is your own choice in this situation).
Also, no whining, flaming, revenge killing and/or discussion.
QFT.
If so, I'm not the one who will give permission to it and I will ignore complains/flamings/revenge kills/ any other what is the result of gang war.
Ok. If that is your choice, then feel free - nobody forces you to answer specific reports. Manage your workload however you wish, you already do it now as an admin - and you clearly do it very well as I've seen in the server.
Put it this way. I am one of the gang moderators on the forums. I was at one time a Level 4 admin.
At no time in my admin career or my time as a gang mod have I recieved an incorrect report about gang deathmatching. At no time have I ever seen people moaning unreasonably and incorrectly to the admins. I don't think the reservations that admins have about this are reasonable - the benefits outweigh any potential problems.
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At no time in my admin career or my time as a gang mod have I recieved an incorrect report about gang deathmatching. At no time have I ever seen people moaning unreasonably and incorrectly to the admins.
I have....Alot of them too, and as a result, the administration team and myself enforced stricter rules.
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Thats odd, I haven't recieved anything that would make me go "Damn, these guys are so annoying.." and be annoyed at reports. Only things I've had have been misunderstandings usually, which I can negotiate between both sides.
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Kessu, remember, it is not only about YOU it is about the whole community ;) And it is not about one person. Admins have same rights as normal players!
Administrators don't have to enforce rules which we are unhappy about, especially if they aren't even concrete yet
If Gandalf suddenly says "gang wars are allowed" I am sure most of us will not watch over them or react to invalid reports about them, after all - you want them, you suffer the consequences
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I voted yes,
They should be allowed - if admins cant put up with the reports then leave - there are plenty of players who would happily take over.
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I totally agree with Panda on that extremely long post.
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Your not going to deal with it? Not doing your job? Can't handle it? Too bad. Your an admin and sometimes admins won't always have it their way, just because they are admins. Obviously, the only people here who do complain about this not being good are the admins (not saying all are, but those who complain ARE admins, Well most of them are.) because this is 'too much work' for them. Well you know guys, who said it would be easy? You an admin of an offical 1000+ (most likely) players server and your should not be expecting an easy job. Sometimes the players dont want what there is there. Which is what's happening now. So don't thing just because your an admin your vote weighs the opposite side down. Your just another player here. And if you don't want to handle this, then don't. But also remember your not doing your best on your admin duties. No this doesn't mean I blame admins for this. They do have a lot of work. And I don't know if they can handle it. But they must realise that there is much work.
I voted Yes.
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Your not going to deal with it? Not doing your job? Can't handle it? Too bad. Your an admin and sometimes admins won't always have it their way, just because they are admins. Obviously, the only people here who do complain about this not being good are the admins (not saying all are, but those who complain ARE admins, Well most of them are.) because this is 'too much work' for them. Well you know guys, who said it would be easy? You an admin of an offical 1000+ (most likely) players server and your should not be expecting an easy job. Sometimes the players dont want what there is there. Which is what's happening now. So don't thing just because your an admin your vote weighs the opposite side down. Your just another player here. And if you don't want to handle this, then don't. But also remember your not doing your best on your admin duties. No this doesn't mean I blame admins for this. They do have a lot of work. And I don't know if they can handle it. But they must realise that there is much work.
I voted Yes.
It's never been easy, it will never be easy, and non-admins will never be happy with our work
You want gang wars? Then prepare to be disappointed by our work even more, when we are doing our best and ask nothing for it in return
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As long as you promise to not whine over main chat, why not... :)
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Personally, I think gangs should just be left to it, and admins shouldn't even bother looking at them. But then, thats just my opinion.
As long as you promise to not whine over main chat, why not... :)
QFT D: ;).
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Personally, I think gangs should just be left to it, and admins shouldn't even bother looking at them. But then, thats just my opinion.
But then you would be out of a job D:
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Panda for President! An admin who has seen ALL sides, from the gangside, to the cop side, and even the admin side.
I can do nothing else then agree with him on ALL fronts. Gangwars should be unexpected, that's why you are in a gang.. Can't stand being attacked? Make a truce with the gang that is attacking you, or leave the gang. Simple as that!
Not only does it satisfy over 80 percent(estimated) of the people that are either in a gang/mafia or in the ARPD/Freecop/FBI/SWAT etc.. think of it. Gangs finally get to fight each other a bit, cops got something else to do then just sitting around eating donuts and chasing speeders.
Of course, there might be some whining from either side. But doesn't that happen already? Let people get used to it, not give it a day or 2 to test.. no people need to get used to these things happening.
And to everyone saying: 'Gangwar is not RP' It certainly IS! And even if it doesn't have any RP side to it from your point of view, it creates other roleplay, such as SWAT actually training for these sort of things (equal with the cops) and gangs/mafia's meeting up, making alliances etcetera.
Fully 100% supported!
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Mafs, that'd cause more babies crying over main chat and nothing else...
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But then you would be out of a job D:
I was mainly talking about fighting ingame, which frankly I don't react to anyway. :lol:
Mafs, that'd cause more babies crying over main chat and nothing else...
I understand why you'd say this, but frankly these babies need to grow up and learn what being in a gang (or indeed, reacting to a gang's actions as a cop) means. :razz:
Gangwars should be unexpected, that's why you are in a gang.. Can't stand being attacked? Make a truce with the gang that is attacking you, or leave the gang. Simple as that!
Couldn't have put it better myself.
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By the way, listing the pages of the thread i've seen something like "But this is a Team DM!"
Okay, then lets look like this: Kidnapp situation, 4 criminals and about 7 cops assaulting them.
Team Deathmatch with roleplay part. BUT LOOK, It's TDM, so you have to get suspected, exit the server, go to Paruni and continue there?
BULLSHIT.
Mafs, that'd cause more babies crying over main chat and nothing else...
If they cry on a silly reason (Over a game(!)), why joining a gang!?
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Mafs, that'd cause more babies crying over main chat and nothing else...
Then they'll be ignored. I mean seriously, there are already loads of babies on the mainchat.
Anywho, I wouldn't want to be on the same site with Squeak D: . Kamikazes die fast.
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Then they'll be ignored. I mean seriously, there are already loads of babies.. [removed]
That last part wasn't really necessary..
Okay, then lets look like this: Kidnapp situation, 4 criminals and about 7 cops assaulting them.
Team Deathmatch with roleplay part. BUT LOOK, It's TDM, so you have to get suspected, exit the server, go to Paruni and continue there?
BULLSHIT.
Sir, you win 4 internets.
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That last part wasn't really necessary..
Whoops, wasn't really thinking (tired -.-). Deleted it.
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Sir, you win 4 internets.
Wat?
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The majority of the server agrees, although the people that want to deny people fun, even THOUGH we allready made appointments with the bigger Groups, No more Flaming in main chat, Complaining ETC (Yes I made a meeting with them), Still the Admins want to control everything you do and spoil the whole game for you, nice going Administration! Now I would like this to be authorized because more then 70 percent agrees :)
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The majority of the server agrees, although the people that want to deny people fun, even THOUGH we allready made appointments with the bigger Groups, No more Flaming in main chat, Complaining ETC (Yes I made a meeting with them), Still the Admins want to control everything you do and spoil the whole game for you, nice going Administration! Now I would like this to be authorized because more then 70 percent agrees :)
Although, i don't really care on it, more action for me (Cop job), i still advice waiting atleast two more days. Not everyone go here every hour/day, we must give more time.
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The majority of the server agrees, although the people that want to deny people fun, even THOUGH we allready made appointments with the bigger Groups, No more Flaming in main chat, Complaining ETC (Yes I made a meeting with them), Still the Admins want to control everything you do and spoil the whole game for you, nice going Administration! Now I would like this to be authorized because more then 70 percent agrees :)
70% of the whole community or just the few that watch this thread?
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70% of the whole community or just the few that watch this thread?
75 people have voted at this moment, the topic is not even 24 hours old. And over 70% agree, keep 'em cumming!
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75 people have voted at this moment, the topic is not even 24 hours old. And over 70% agree, keep 'em cumming!
75 out of a community of....?
Like I said before, check petitions on the net, you'll find out most are just ignored and they have MILLIONS of signatures.
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75 out of a community of....?
Like I said before, check petitions on the net, you'll find out most are just ignored and they have MILLIONS of signatures.
True true.. but we're a close community, we'll see what happens ;)
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Well, we must just wait untill it is complete - untill then the Admins of Argonath RPG will dominate your lives and will punish you on every small thiing you do - banana you if even they start an arguement - kick you if they lose an arguement - kick you if they do not like you, it is like Tony Dragons all over again! GREAT GOING
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 10:35:27 pm
Dave can you PLEASE stop acting so important all the time? I doubt anyone gives a flying fuck that you ever were an admin on this server
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Well, we must just wait untill it is complete - untill then the Admins of Argonath RPG will dominate your lives and will punish you on every small thiing you do - banana you if even they start an arguement - kick you if they lose an arguement - kick you if they do not like you, it is like Tony Dragons all over again! GREAT GOING
Post Merge: June 19, 2009, 10:35:27 pm
Dave can you PLEASE stop acting so important all the time? I doubt anyone gives a flying f**k that you ever were an admin on this server
Lovely attitude, thanks for the compliments
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Did I say anywhere that I was ever an admin? Nope. I'm putting some logical insight into this as people think this petition will work in under 24 hours and the owners and developer team are going to say "Oh wait, there are 70 people signing a petition to allow gang wars, better allow them". Think realistically, have you ever seen a successful petition ( other than in the British Government to get MPs to resign over expenses ).
And if you hadn't noticed already, the administration team has been told to become more strict, it's been announced on the forum since..the start of the year?
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You have been saying it over and over again in the server, now please stop acting like a smartass all the time
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You have been saying it over and over again in the server, now please stop acting like a smartass all the time
First you have a go at me, then other people, and now Dave...why can't people give their opinion on your topic? It says clearly that you are open to ideas and opinions...
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I said that , when? I only said "I had Panda's job before him" in response to a comment on me not knowing what I was talking about, and after that Panda and I had a very nice conversatiion about British Politics. Now cut the BS, i'm not acting like a smartass, it's called maturity, something you clearly lack.
First you have a go at me, then other people, and now Dave...why can't people give their opinion on your topic? It says clearly that you are open to ideas and opinions...
He has a thing for people with the name David :)
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Yes, I am open for Ideas and Suggestions, but I am not open for useless posts :)
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Yes, I am open for Ideas and Suggestions, but I am not open for useless posts :)
Not usless, factual, you might be able to use some of that information to your advantage.....but seems like you don't want to do that.
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No. Im not going to spend my all time on server being babysitter to some kids who cannot agree between themselves. Instead i have smarter things to do. Think about it.
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No. Im not going to spend my all time on server being babysitter to some kids who cannot agree between themselves. Instead i have smarter things to do. Think about it.
I wunder about what kids you guys always talk about...
Gangwars are roleplayable, some of mafias are capable of doing it...sadly the bigger amount isn't.
So this might expand to a little conflict.
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Brains:
I have allready created Agreements with almost every Big Group in this Server;
No more Flaming, Complaining, Whining in main chat, and yeah it actually works out.
Thank you
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Voted yes.
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No. Im not going to spend my all time on server being babysitter to some kids who cannot agree between themselves. Instead i have smarter things to do. Think about it.
Why you are an admin then?
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Gang fight are cool, other servers I played, have it.
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Yep.
I totaly vote yes
And i agree with the people around =)
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No.
I'm pretty sure a lot of gangs will ditch the rules once it really started. And cops got work enough already.
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No. Im not going to spend my all time on server being babysitter to some kids who cannot agree between themselves. Instead i have smarter things to do. Think about it.
Then resign from your position and hide in the middle of Flint County. No one will ever bother you.
I voted yes..
I think they should be allowed, but with an OOC agreement between both sides.
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There can be good gang war scenarios like;
Two ally mafia leaders eating and talking about business in a bistro, and their mafia members protecting the bistro/also they are enjoying their spagettis :P
Some other mafia member sees them and calls his don to talk about it, then Don of enemy mafia gets his guys to that bistro, enters there and starts talking to other mafia dons. Then talking goes to argue and boom here you have a good role played gang war.
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I vote yes.
But more hidden. Such as at the headquarters.
Where it wont disturb the citizens. At least where the citizens can't be hurt.
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What's wrong with you guys..
If Mafias are fighting eachothers, they don't say: Hey, Don Corleone? Don Stracci here, we want a gangwar, let's go to Flint County? Yes? Ok. See ya there.
I mean look at this, it's just obviously plain idiotic.
Gangwars should be allowed EVERYWHERE! Because then, the real RP starts with the Police, Medics, News etc.
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Gangwars should be allowed EVERYWHERE! Because then, the real RP starts with the Police, Medics, News etc.
Then the chaos and DM starts.
If Mafias are fighting eachothers, they don't say: Hey, Don Corleone? Don Stracci here, we want a gangwar, let's go to Flint County? Yes? Ok. See ya there.
I mean look at this, it's just obviously plain idiotic.
Your opinion.
IMHO it's better to plan and set up everything instead of doing it like 'SURPRISE MOFOS!! *bang* *bang* *gangwar*.
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I vote yes.
But more hidden. Such as at the headquarters.
Where it wont disturb the citizens. At least where the citizens can't be hurt.
Why? When suspects drive away around Los Santos from Cops, civillians got also hurt....
(Just remembered my hit on Giac, when i blew up a taxi with Grze and someone else there, also killing myself and Toven :D )
If Mafias are fighting eachothers, they don't say: Hey, Don Corleone? Don Stracci here, we want a gangwar, let's go to Flint County? Yes? Ok. See ya there.
Your opinion.
IMHO it's better to plan and set up everything instead of doing it like 'SURPRISE MOFOS!! *bang* *bang* *gangwar*.
Disagree with both.
Did anyone see Godfather the movie, or atleast a game?
Then i think you should know from what step a gangwar (or a mob war, as in GF) starts. No silly reasons such as "OMG HE KILLED 2 OF US", but, for example, a hit on a Leader or Co-Leader(hit must be also valided, no reason such as "DARN HE PISSES ME OFF"), or it's for an attempt to take over the turf (It MUST be very rarely)
Then the chaos and DM starts.
Not a fact. Noone can guarantee what actually happen, unless you're Vanga
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"So, let's create a gangwar at the pool in Pershing Square, shoot everybody involved".
If you accidently shot an innocent, they might take it as DM and report you.
OR, the one you shot will attempt to kill you. Which will cause DM and not gang war.
Who said Flint County by the way? Imagine if it would be allowed anywhere, anytime.
You don't have to take it as a request, more as an advice.
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"So, let's create a gangwar at the pool in Pershing Square, shoot everybody involved".
If you accidently shot an innocent, they might take it as DM and report you.
OR, the one you shot will attempt to kill you. Which will cause DM and not gang war.
Who said Flint County by the way? Imagine if it would be allowed anywhere, anytime.
You don't have to take it as a request, more as an advice.
Right, citizens just stand in the middle of a shootout, and keep standing there and watch the whole shootout right? They don't run away, nor scream right?
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Okay guys, so I was at work today and I thinked the whole thing trough.
I am (attempting) to create an Agreement with every Group in the Server about Group Wars.
The agreement is as followed : No more Complaining / Flaming / Whining in Main Chat towards admins on groups.
Use /PM or Personal Forum Message and MSN to complain.
Current groups that have agreed to this are:
Stracci, Gvardia, Corleone, Cems.
If you want to agree with this Suggestion post here and I hope we can make a conclusion on this soon.
Thank you
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Luvineri agrees, at least I do. I think most of our members agree too.
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Araatus always did this, you forgot us D: :roll:.
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Stracci, Gvardia, Cems, Araatus, Luvineri, Corleone agree to it,
What more groups do we have?
Post Merge: June 20, 2009, 09:17:04 am
Big Suggestion:
The agreement is as followed : No more Complaining / Flaming / Whining in Main Chat towards admins on groups.
Use /PM or Personal Forum Message and MSN to complain.
Current groups that have agreed to this are:
Stracci, Gvardia, Corleone, Cems, Araatus, Luvineri.
If I will get all the groups to do this, and this will work for everyone, could this be implied?
Awaiting answer from Main Administration,
Thank you.
Post Merge: June 20, 2009, 07:35:14 pm
EDIT:
As for all the Professional Famillies: If you see a Revenge Killer at ANY side what-so-ever, he will be immediately Kicked from Group to reduce it.
Agreed Groups:
Stracci.
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I voted yes because I think that groups must have a battle in time.
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I came on today not long ago and after 4 minutes i see an report on admin chat about gang war from one of the gangs who agrees with the suggestion you made.. Even if in main chat people was screaming everyone agrees of the current situation.. Then more report of "dm" came to us of people who was shooting on the scen involved in the fight..
I still don't see it working even if it haven't been granted yet and you are all saying you are following it at the moment already..
ADD: No admin was even informed of it when i saw it..
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I suggest , IF you do it, inform admins bout it, and do it at a place located FAR away !
like mount chilliad, or bayside.
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I suggest , IF you do it, inform admins bout it, and do it at a place located FAR away !
like mount chilliad, or bayside.
Or San Fierro. Most people that are there are members of mafias that already have agreed on this.
It's also more fun inside the city, since it's more places to cover behind, etc.
As for all the Professional Famillies: If you see a Revenge Killer at ANY side what-so-ever, he will be immediately Kicked from Group to reduce it.
Agreed Groups:
Stracci.
I will be very strict with this, I don't believe any of my members would revenge kill, but it will probably be a kick if they do.
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Araatus never revenge kills anyway, done deal on us.
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I came on today not long ago and after 4 minutes i see an report on admin chat about gang war from one of the gangs who agrees with the suggestion you made.. Even if in main chat people was screaming everyone agrees of the current situation.. Then more report of "dm" came to us of people who was shooting on the scen involved in the fight..
I still don't see it working even if it haven't been granted yet and you are all saying you are following it at the moment already..
ADD: No admin was even informed of it when i saw it..
Pancher,
We were Roleplaying our Rivalry, a (possible) Civilian went there and fired a Shot at Gvardia which made them shoot us,
: I will make everything work for everyone Pancher, Mark My Words, I will talk to EVERY group, so that I can realize this, you must please know that this is not a 6-hour job, but I will get it done,
Now the Question for everyone is: Do you all Agree, if all the Groups can Maintain this what I just suggested?
Thank you.
ADD:
I am also Suggesting to add it to the Rules of the Groups in they're own topics;
1: Flame in Main Chat = Kick from Familly
2: Moan/Whine/Complain in main Chat = Kick from Familly.
3: Report to Admins for DM = Kick from Familly
Possible Question from Admin: "Why Imply Rule Number 3?"
Answer: The Famillies should be able to have an Conversation out of the game to ask the reasons and everything;
If Complains or Flame Occur, within the Admin Team (Since the Groups will be Individual fixing the problems on theyre own, NOT involving Administrators ) then it will mean an Instant Kick for the Member.
Thank you.
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People should be allowed to report others to admins IF they DM.. without risk to get kicked out from an family/group/gang/mafia etc...
Post Merge: June 20, 2009, 09:54:06 am
Also, to still inform everyone, GANG WARS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON SERVER!! if admins are not informed and viewing the situation.. This Petition is not accepted yet due it's under progress to make it a good one.
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Yes, they should Pancher, BUT:
If occurs there is a Gang-War it would be best if it is reported to leaders and used instant kick - Zero Tolerance, then it will be good for everyone, I suppose, waiting for Gandalfs answer on this Suggestion ;)
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Warnings!
Mike_Gvardia and Edward_Gvardia are warned for killing same person(In rp dead person) several times.
For both it's the first warning. I hope it's also the last!
Remember: 3warnings= Kick!
Renzo Gvardia
We started our work, The boys mix up the Stracci who were shoting them with dead people who respawn in the same position, it was a missunderstanding, but it wont be tolerate in our group...
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Why is the poll locked? I guess there is more then 106 regulars and players on this server :neutral:
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I locked it to show how the results are over a 100 People, will open it now, results are about 70/30.
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Why is the poll locked? I guess there is more then 106 regulars and players on this server :neutral:
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I locked it to show how the results are over a 100 People, will open it now, results are about 70/30.
Maybe there are half of the thousand who would vote no :')? Current results...
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Waiting for answer on my Suggestion..
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Montana accepts your terms and rules.
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Question to Nitrox, How should admins, in your eyes, do to stop those who you would claim "moan" and etc over main chat or against reports of "dm" when people claims its RP and both sides agree and admins still get's reports of "dm" and "gang war"? without players start moan at admins for doing there job?
Cos at the moment when admins do there job they get blamed at EVEN if people knows the rules VERY WELL!.
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Question to Nitrox, How should admins, in your eyes, do to stop those who you would claim "moan" and etc over main chat or against reports of "dm" when people claims its RP and both sides agree and admins still get's reports of "dm" and "gang war"? without players start moan at admins for doing there job?
Cos at the moment when admins do there job they get blamed at EVEN if people knows the rules VERY WELL!.
It woudnt be Admin responsibility Pancher, it woud be ours responsobility ( Group leaders) to prevent it, or punish if that does happend. If someone doesnt like does rules and is part of a group that acepted then, he can change group, swich Characters or deal with it .....
This all started with one friendly PM to NitrOx, now after only 2 days, we made it happend ;)
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What's wrong with you guys..
If Mafias are fighting eachothers, they don't say: Hey, Don Corleone? Don Stracci here, we want a gangwar, let's go to Flint County? Yes? Ok. See ya there. I mean look at this, it's just obviously plain idiotic. Gangwars should be allowed EVERYWHERE!
To begin with, there are no Mafia's actually role-playing something like an inner society, hidden from the civilians' eyes.
I really doubt that real Mafia's will start a fight everywhere they want, especially in front of a police department..
Because then, the real RP starts with the Police, Medics, News etc.
You think Mafia's want to be all over the news? Do you think they want cops to investigate them more?
Sure they want - they are pathetic attention seekers.. :lol: :rofl:
Stop watching pathetic movies about Mafia's and shit.
You basically know nothing about their real behaviour.
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i voted yes!! , i agreed
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I voted Yes too ;) its a great idea NitrOx!
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You think Mafia's want to be all over the news? Do you think they want cops to investigate them more?
Sure they want - they are pathetic attention seekers.. :lol: :rofl:
Its not about the mafia part, its about the possibilities for other players whose roles aren't used that much (medics, news guys, etc).
Don't you think that would be nice?
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What's wrong with you guys..
If Mafias are fighting eachothers, they don't say: Hey, Don Corleone? Don Stracci here, we want a gangwar, let's go to Flint County? Yes? Ok. See ya there.
I mean look at this, it's just obviously plain idiotic.
Gangwars should be allowed EVERYWHERE! Because then, the real RP starts with the Police, Medics, News etc.
Stop looking at bad movies and think about real life.
A mafia will not come with 20 people and organize a shootout in the middle of a city centre. Too much risk of being arrested and/or spotted by the authorities.
In fact a mafia shootout will only be if there is a major conflict that can not be resolved otherwise.
In such cases the groups will agree on a meeting in a place where they:
- will not hurt innocent bystanders, as murdering innocents is against the criminal code
- are likely to escape should someone have informed the cops
- can post guards to ensure that no unexpected rival groups or cops will show up without notice
So lets make something about our view:
What is a mafia ?
A mafia is a group or 'family' that lives by organized crime.
Why do mafia's exist ?
In a city where the authorities have limited control, and cops can easily be corrupted, crime goes up without limits. Then groups of criminal start to organize to keep their own neighbourhood free of the constant robbing, kidnappings and other crimes. They will protect the citizens and business owners, and take care of their territory... at a price.
Does a mafia kill innocent people ?
No. They work by a strict code, that does not allow any member to kill innocent people that have done no harm. Any memebr of a mafia that is caught doing this will be punished, to death if they did not do it by accident.
Why ? They are criminals
Being involved in crime does not mean being a psychopath. Mafia members are people who care about others, their wives and children, and who do not think of how to make the most killings every day. They will resort to violence instead of caling the cops if they or those who are under their protection are threatened.
Do rival mafia's kill each other when they meet ?
Most of the times, no. If they meet rival mafias will resolve a conflict peacefully. If the lower members get in to a conflict when they meet on the streets, they inform the leaders of what happened. Then there can be two possibilities. Either it is clear who is wrong, and this is sovled between the leaders, there can be compensation and punishment for those who broke the code. Or both stay on their point of view, and a meeting is arranged to clear the conflict.
What happens at such meeting ?
That depends. There still is room for peace, as nobody wishes to die. But if all fails it does result in a shootout. the winning group then takes what their win was about, and the losing (if survived) will continue minus what they lost.
Does the losing group revenge ?
No. They just got their best people killed, how could they revenge ? Also the shootout is the end of that conflict. Any group who after a shootout refuses to accept the result will be out of respect from all groups and will be made to disappear.
What if a new group comes and start using force on civilians to get territory ?
If they do not obey the code, they will be attacked by all other groups and disappear.
Ok...out of RP/RL mode.
Look at this post, and see what this means for your mafia RP and gang wars.
Make a clear proposition with all points of how to organize it and what the rules will be. Then we will decide.
In the mean time, do not organize mass shootouts.
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Its not about the mafia part, its about the possibilities for other players whose roles aren't used that much (medics, news guys, etc).
Don't you think that would be nice?
I never seen an medic or news guy in middle of a gang war (They come after when people are heavy wounded and etc.). I doubt they even would have the nuts to g near one ingame cos they would be shoot to death due the fire-power and amount of people ruining in circles.
Alos any server rule break is an admin matter.. So we will not ignore if someone is dm, flaming and so on... at least not me.
If gang leaders will/want help to minimize the amount of DM and flamers and etc that's just a lot of +++++ and supported!.
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I personally would like to see and allow a decent gangwar, but with what I've seen and heard makes me doubt that a gangwar like that would ever occur. And ever exist. It attracts deathmatch etc. It will most likely will. Having this said, I would like for gang-wars to be allowed for a 'test-period'. No harm in that, right? I want you guys to prove me wrong. I really do.
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There have been gang wars all the time anyway
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im for it
yes
because non clan wars - non RP
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You got Yes from Sons of Silence
I will kick guy that whines/comes back after death from group... Hope this petition gets on Argonath, its pretty boring without gang wars and all ...
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I voted yes, if can be controlled like it is between the groups already, then I see no problem with this.
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I voted yes, if can be controlled like it is between the groups already, then I see no problem with this.
:lol: That's why we still get reports of "provoking for gang wars"!? Last i saw that kind of reports was today like 3-5 hours ago..
I hope the gangs can do something about this :)
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Dear Pancher,
I see you are still against this Petition and I would like to assure you, that it will be dealt with,
This Petition has not yet been accepted, and there are not much Gang Wars yet online,
I would like to Request Gandalf to Officially accept this Petition so that we can try it out.
Thank you. :)
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I hope the gangs can do something about this :)
Does that sound like i don't want it? I say you should make something up so you don't need to scream all over main chat and don't need to report to admins for gang war or dm and other moaning.
I said several times i'm NOT against it, i just said SO FAR no one have showed that you follow what you suggest.. and that we still get reports about gang war and dm when you have big shoot-outs.
If you can make something that everyone agress with and that people can follow i'm positive for it.
Post Merge: June 21, 2009, 10:40:31 pm
ADD: I have no problems with "gang wars" if all parties can agree of the terms and make it in a fair way. Not return after death, let dead players leave scene without get shoot at and die 3 times more..
many suggestions are good,
If gang leaders will/want help to minimize the amount of DM and flamers and etc that's just a lot of +++++ and supported!.
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:lol: That's why we still get reports of "provoking for gang wars"!? Last i saw that kind of reports was today like 3-5 hours ago..
.. which appear purely because you guys have said we aren't allowed.
They don't actually care about the gangwar, they'll fight it - but they reported to admins because you guys actually enforce this now.
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We had a good meeting today and some points are to be made clear:
- rules about gang wars should be included in the server rules, which they are not at this time
- the rules will be proposed by the gang leaders, and adjusted if needed by the developers
The proposal should include:
- what is understood as a gang war
- what are valid reasons
- how groups should agree to ensure that there is no misunderstanding
- how to avoid gang wars being held constantly
- how to have gang wars while keeping the server friendly for new arriving players
- what are the obligations and actions of admins to be taken
- how can administration declare a gang war valid or invalid
We are waiting this proposal because we feel that we should decrease the number of random shootouts (including thos of a small number of people) while giving the possibility to have a good fight.
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.. which appear purely because you guys have said we aren't allowed.
They don't actually care about the gangwar, they'll fight it - but they reported to admins because you guys actually enforce this now.
It's good someone at least enforce the rules meanwhile others ignore them... The 'rules' have been stated by the higher authority that it's not allowed, if players not follow a few points..
And yes I'm tired of let them have there "shoot-outs", cos there is a lot of moaning, "revenge killing" and "dm"(not always but to often), which i hope will disappear if/when new proper guidelines will be made by groups to make it more fun for everyone and not make people angry due different reasons like earlier stated...
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- what is understood as a gang war
A conflict involving two gangs/groups/mafias, including at least one member from each side who is a Leader, Co-Leader or has been given certain rights to engage in fights by the leaders.
- what are valid reasons
Two gangs being enemies, and a perceived aggressive action.
This can include an aggressive act against an ally (and hence retaliating in their place), or encroaching regularly upon headquarters areas. Also, enough verbal attacks (within roleplay, of course) can warrant a physical attack, though probably just an execution.
- how groups should agree to ensure that there is no misunderstanding
A group must agree with the other group that gangwars are to be allowed.
Each attack must not be verified, but the ability to launch them must be validated by both sides (mutual agreement of being enemies, basically).
- how to avoid gang wars being held constantly
Set a good time for 'life respawns', where players cannot return after death.
Each attack would warrant this to begin, including any period of suspection for killing or shooting. This may be hours, frankly. Basically, the entire fight must have died down and all parties be unsuspected before dead can return.
I think you'll find that ultimately, the price of heavy weaponry arming will drive down the number of gangwars in the long run.
- how to have gang wars while keeping the server friendly for new arriving players
Ensure that gangs know not to shoot the new players, unless the new player has a gun and is shooting himself.
- what are the obligations and actions of admins to be taken
Reports of returning must not be on /report, they must be in a PM to the gang leader in question.
If the gang leader in question does not react on his members breaking the rules, then that 'gangwar validation' (as I suggested above) could simply be severed.
E.g. If Araatus fights the Moose Gang, and the Moose gang's soldiers keep returning after death, then I should PM the Moose gang's leader(s). If they do not respond, then Araatus says to the Moose gang "You are not allowed to fight us anymore, gangwar validation severed".
At this point, continued attacks would be easily and simply dealt with by admins. Also, gangwars from groups who have not made validations with the groups they are attacking.
- how can administration declare a gang war valid or invalid
Validations could be posted in a sticky topic on the groups forum.
If a severance of validation comes through, then the leader posts it there. Admins check quickly, and then they know.
Basically, gangs have to agree with one another "Yes, we can attack each other" and make a 'Validation'. At any time, either gang can back out from this agreement (obviously, not in the middle of an actual fight ingame) and post in the sticky topic this. Admins can quickly check if, for example, Araatus can attack Gvardia - and react accordingly.
Actual fight rules such as returning from death are dealt with internally by the gang leaders. Leaders who refuse to punish rulebreakers will very quickly lose all of their validations, and will not be allowed to gangwar anymore.
I think this is a rather nice system, and makes admins jobs simpler. Clearly, reports of hacks are still on /report, as normal, but the topic would quickly indicate "Can Araatus fight Gvardia?.. yes they can, both sides agree." and then they just let it happen. If Gvardia keep returning after death, and leaders refuse to punish, then Araatus severs validation and Gvardia can't attack anymore (and Araatus can't attack Gvardia anymore, also). Same if Araatus members rulebreak, and I refuse to act (although that won't happen :D).
Sorry for using you guys as an example, by the way. :razz:
Thats what I reckon, anyway. Should make it simple to tell "Is this gangwar allowed." and not have to deal with rulebreakers individually as admins (which is one of the major concerns). As a rule, a good return time should be set (2 hours, maybe?). If this is broken, then gangs deal with it internally, leader to leader. Refusal to cooperate = validation severance.
Thanks. :)
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good
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@Panda : Ye i know you love us deep in your hart...
Anyway thats it...
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i voted yes,
why?
gangwars can also be RP, brings a lot of work for all sides in Argonath,
medics/cops/fireman/civillians/mafia
also i know another RP server where gang wars are allowed,
there you must sign up on the forums, so everyone knows about it,
difference is that gangs got turfs there, gangwars are rare though
maybe this is a good thing? a place to sign up for a gangwar,
with the reason for it and a location
and without this sign up a gangwar is not allowed,
so the main admins can accept/deny the gangwar request when they think no good reason,
or that it is to frequent
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gangwars can also be RP, brings a lot of work for all sides in Argonath,
medics/cops/fireman/civillians/mafia
Yeah, good place to visit to get shot at.
"Can Araatus fight Gvardia?.. yes they can, both sides agree."
You? 1 person VS Gvardia? That's going to be a quite amusing show.
Oh wait, I understand how you imagine it.
A mobster calls 911 and says: "Hello, we are starting a gang-war at Jefferson Hotel, please provide paramedics, police, firemen and witnesses. Thank you." Then, when everyone come, the shooting starts.
Nice, isn't it? :lol: :rofl:
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You? 1 person VS Gvardia? That's going to be a quite amusing show.
Araatus can get at least 7 people together, maybe even more...
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Oh wait, I understand how you imagine it.
A mobster calls 911 and says: "Hello, we are starting a gang-war at Jefferson Hotel, please provide paramedics, police, firemen and witnesses. Thank you." Then, when everyone come, the shooting starts.
This is a game. Absurd situations like that only make it more fun to play (at least for me). I don't want to bring z0mg realism into a game, realism in real life is enough.
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it is a good place, medic for healing ppl, firefighters for possibly fires
and yes saying you will do a gangwar isnt RP, normally it would happen without any notify
but since there must be admins at it, ppl will have to know it
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This is a game. Absurd situations like that only make it more fun to play (at least for me). I don't want to bring z0mg realism into a game, realism in real life is enough.
Yeah, why don't we start to be Pokemon? :trust:
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- what is understood as a gang war
A gang war should be a shoot-out between two rival groups that have recently come had some sort of encounter to result in fighting.
- what are valid reasons
Gang-war may be the result of a possible attack on any of a group's members. This maybe in physical form to verbal form.
For example: Violet_Corleone was shot at by Cofi_Gvardia, but Violet managed to escape.
- how groups should agree to ensure that there is no misunderstanding
Groups must agree to a gang-war from both sides to make sure there is no aftermath of moaning and whining. The terms must be clear to both sides. Anything that a group does not state in an agreement before the gangwar will not count as a valid arguement to adminstrators. Both groups must give an ingame adminstrator their agreement to the gang-war with the terms.
- how to avoid gang wars being held constantly
A gang-war limitation - as Panda has stated would be good.
- how to have gang wars while keeping the server friendly for new arriving players
Both groups must ensure that the gang-war 'arena' will not be obstructing roads, or anything that players pass often. Mostly larger places must be used. All agreements and conditions must be done within a decided CB Radio.
- what are the obligations and actions of admins to be taken
If any group breaks any of the agreed rules, the whole group must suffer admins a-jailing for 10 minutes.
- how can administration declare a gang war valid or invalid
When the 'leaders' of both sides concerning the gang-war meet in a decided CB radio, they take an admin with them. They state their issues and the reason why a gang-war is required. From this an admin makes the decision to allow the gang-war.
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how groups should agree to ensure that there is no misunderstanding
I think Panda´s point of view on that one is good.
Post Merge: June 22, 2009, 03:48:44 pm
I think Panda´s rules are quite perfect, dont know what everyone else thinks.
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A conflict involving two gangs/groups/mafias, including at least one member from each side who is a Leader, Co-Leader or has been given certain rights to engage in fights by the leaders.
Agreed.
Two gangs being enemies, and a perceived aggressive action.
This can include an aggressive act against an ally (and hence retaliating in their place), or encroaching regularly upon headquarters areas. Also, enough verbal attacks (within roleplay, of course) can warrant a physical attack, though probably just an execution.
Not good enough. 'I dislike your members lets start a gang fight' is invalid as a reason.
Reason for gang war should be not some minor difference that can be dealt with by the leaders, but a very strong reason why people would want to lose their life.
A group must agree with the other group that gangwars are to be allowed.
Each attack must not be verified, but the ability to launch them must be validated by both sides (mutual agreement of being enemies, basically).
Groups do not have to be enemies to fight each other. Even among friends a strong difference can cause a fight.
However the validation is a good idea.
Set a good time for 'life respawns', where players cannot return after death.
Each attack would warrant this to begin, including any period of suspection for killing or shooting. This may be hours, frankly. Basically, the entire fight must have died down and all parties be unsuspected before dead can return.
I think you'll find that ultimately, the price of heavy weaponry arming will drive down the number of gangwars in the long run.
Impossible to implement, as it would affect all players unless there is a special gang war script written.
Ensure that gangs know not to shoot the new players, unless the new player has a gun and is shooting himself.
I would prefer that groups agree to hold their wars in places where new players will not spawn near. If they manage to run in to a war (with or without weapons) held at a special location, they can carry the consequenses.
In a big fight anyone can be hit accidentally.
Reports of returning must not be on /report, they must be in a PM to the gang leader in question.
If the gang leader in question does not react on his members breaking the rules, then that 'gangwar validation' (as I suggested above) could simply be severed.
E.g. If Araatus fights the Moose Gang, and the Moose gang's soldiers keep returning after death, then I should PM the Moose gang's leader(s). If they do not respond, then Araatus says to the Moose gang "You are not allowed to fight us anymore, gangwar validation severed".
At this point, continued attacks would be easily and simply dealt with by admins. Also, gangwars from groups who have not made validations with the groups they are attacking.
Validations could be posted in a sticky topic on the groups forum.
If a severance of validation comes through, then the leader posts it there. Admins check quickly, and then they know.
Basically, gangs have to agree with one another "Yes, we can attack each other" and make a 'Validation'. At any time, either gang can back out from this agreement (obviously, not in the middle of an actual fight ingame) and post in the sticky topic this. Admins can quickly check if, for example, Araatus can attack Gvardia - and react accordingly.
Actual fight rules such as returning from death are dealt with internally by the gang leaders. Leaders who refuse to punish rulebreakers will very quickly lose all of their validations, and will not be allowed to gangwar anymore.
Good idea, but does this mean that if a new group is made they will not be attacked by old existing groups before they make a validation ?
I think this is a rather nice system, and makes admins jobs simpler. Clearly, reports of hacks are still on /report, as normal, but the topic would quickly indicate "Can Araatus fight Gvardia?.. yes they can, both sides agree." and then they just let it happen. If Gvardia keep returning after death, and leaders refuse to punish, then Araatus severs validation and Gvardia can't attack anymore (and Araatus can't attack Gvardia anymore, also). Same if Araatus members rulebreak, and I refuse to act (although that won't happen :D).
Sorry for using you guys as an example, by the way. :razz:
Thats what I reckon, anyway. Should make it simple to tell "Is this gangwar allowed." and not have to deal with rulebreakers individually as admins (which is one of the major concerns). As a rule, a good return time should be set (2 hours, maybe?). If this is broken, then gangs deal with it internally, leader to leader. Refusal to cooperate = validation severance.
Thanks. :)
Thanks for giving the subject a lot of thought. We are making progress.
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I agree with Panda's rule too.They are fair for all the groups.
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I would prefer that groups agree to hold their wars in places where new players will not spawn near. If they manage to run in to a war (with or without weapons) held at a special location, they can carry the consequenses.
In a big fight anyone can be hit accidentally.
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Spawn is at airport just stay away from there :P
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Its an good idea, but ther are somtimes to much gang wars, i agree with Gandalf, but if everybody do it like this, it wil be an great idea, and will there be created good new RP's
[AV]Bart
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This is a game. Absurd situations like that only make it more fun to play (at least for me). I don't want to bring z0mg realism into a game, realism in real life is enough.
yeh we use video games to escape reality, why make it exactly like reality :P
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Not good enough. 'I dislike your members lets start a gang fight' is invalid as a reason.
Reason for gang war should be not some minor difference that can be dealt with by the leaders, but a very strong reason why people would want to lose their life.
Yea, I had trouble with that one. Further ideas needed.
Impossible to implement, as it would affect all players unless there is a special gang war script written.
I wasn't suggesting a script, I simply meant by 'life' the amount of time they have to wait before returning after death (if indeed at all). Literally, how long before the dead are considered alive again.
I would prefer that groups agree to hold their wars in places where new players will not spawn near.
Basically, a new player should have to stop their car and go on foot to get involved, IMO that is the technical description of how isolated a fight should be.
Good idea, but does this mean that if a new group is made they will not be attacked by old existing groups before they make a validation ?
Correct, I guess. New groups would have to request validations before they could attack, and also before they could be attacked.
Validations would also apply to helping allies. You couldn't help your ally (Gang B) fight Gang A unless you had a validation yourself with Gang A, nevermind Gang B.
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valid reasons can be like:
a gang member got robbed by another gang,
someone got shot by the others
the other gang keeps entering the HQ
about that life timer, that would just mean every gang member will return after a while again,
dead=dead
as i said before:
maybe a special gangwar topic, where gangwars can be announced,
and has to be accepted by the other group also,
and also by the admins(not to much a week, and a good valid reason)
also on this way sides can organise, gangs can get there members,
and also SAPD/medics can prepare
but this will cause that SAPD can inmediatly fight in the gang war also,
the location should stay secret, or at least known by both groups and admins only
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about that life timer, that would just mean every gang member will return after a while again,
dead=dead
I doubt any gangwars will last over 2 hours.
maybe a special gangwar topic, where gangwars can be announced,
and has to be accepted by the other group also,
and also by the admins(not to much a week, and a good valid reason)
I've had a lot of feedback from gang leaders (and I agree) that suggests a topic for each individual gangwar ruins the entire concept.
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the idea is to fight because of problems between gangs?
but then it doesnt ruin the concept
i do agree its more RP if you at once do it, instead of planning it
but its the same as with protests, best RP would be just do it,
but no you must announce it 2 weeks before, so it can work fine
and 2 hours then yes, but thats just the time you set
if you say dead=dead its much easier and the same
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Basicly, say that Gang wars only can be held at Desert Airport. then players can't report that they got DM'ed by the 2 groups that's holding a gangwar there since he need to get to the landing way to be able to get killed
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Groups need to be able to attack for the most part at random, this means that organising it is not viable, and a set location is also not viable.
and 2 hours then yes, but thats just the time you set
if you say dead=dead its much easier and the same
How is it the same? A single gangwar would wipe a gang clean. That isn't how a game is supposed to work.
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I'd like it even more if you, like Gandalf, said tried to have meetings. During the meeting in wich ya'll might not agree on a point, and then blast eachother! That way the location doesn't have to be that random :) Of course you don't have to have a gangwar after a meeting all the time, as it would get vveerryyy boring, but you know..
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I LOVE ALL OF YOU
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valid reasons can be like:
a gang member got robbed by another gang,
someone got shot by the others
the other gang keeps entering the HQ
Getting robbed or even shot is not a strong enough reason to shoot the hell out of each other and spoil lives.
In such case you go to the leader and ask compensation (for the victim or their 'widow'), that is unless you were getting robbed while on the terrain of the other gang. In that case you should have known better and get nothing.
If a gang keeps entering the HQ, fire your security and get a better one.
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Getting robbed or even shot is not a strong enough reason to shoot the hell out of each other and spoil lives.
In such case you go to the leader and ask compensation (for the victim or their 'widow'), that is unless you were getting robbed while on the terrain of the other gang. In that case you should have known better and get nothing.
If a gang keeps entering the HQ, fire your security and get a better one.
True that. ;)
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WHO WANTS TO PARTY ON DOWN :banana:
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Ehm.. moving swiftly on. :roll:
I think we need to think up some good reasons for gangs to begin fighting.
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People have been in "Gang war" so it shouldn't be that hard for you to come with some suggestions ? :neutral:
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Problem is that I need this from people who think "being enemies" isn't a good reason, because in my eyes its perfectly fine just to attack for no reason other than "Don't like those guys". :lol:
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I think only way for this to work is for mafia/gangs to all begin again at neutral instead of enemies, then we will find valid RP reasons to attack each other later.
Allies can of course still be allies.
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Anyway many good Points Panda that can be slightly modified, good if group leaders can handle the big parts without administration involved to much. :D
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I agree with all points Panda made.
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I agree with all of Panda's points too. D :
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I agree with all of Panda's points too. D :
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I woud realy like to know what is strong enough reason that can cause gangwar.... from Main Admins view.
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I woud realy like to know what is strong enough reason that can cause gangwar.... from Main Admins view.
- a dispute over a business, winner gets the business
- compensation was requested for a loss, but refused. If the demanding party wins they get the compensation, otherwise not.
- a group ratted on another group that got arrested by the FBI. They feel their honour is insulted and want retribution.
The "I hate you, you hate me, lets fight" as Panda suggested would be ok except that it would be played out several times a day. with at least 10 groups on server it would be easy to find a gang war going on at any moment, and that is not the idea. Just like kidnappings and robberies get incredibly boring if they happen 100 times a day, same is for gang wars. With the addition that new players will get involved too easy as they tend to go where there are many people.
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- a dispute over a business, winner gets the business
- compensation was requested for a loss, but refused. If the demanding party wins they get the compensation, otherwise not.
Can any older player then me ( more then 1,4 years ) , tell me when was the last time any criminal group on server done this, not to mention payed the compensation?
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Never heard of it, Cofi.
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Can any older player then me ( more then 1,4 years ) , tell me when was the last time any criminal group on server done this, not to mention payed the compensation?
I've been here since =MS= times, however I haven't heard of such situations.
I think you work will fall short of expectations.
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Can any older player then me ( more then 1,4 years ) , tell me when was the last time any criminal group on server done this, not to mention payed the compensation?
Stracci vs [V], [V] lost their HQ.
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Stracci vs [V], [V] lost their HQ.
it was [VG] :P yeh i lost my bizz and house thanks to that war, even had to close the gang D:
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Damn that war was so fun, even though we lost..
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Yehaha i remember that day it was fun ( then shitix refused to pay the money of house :P )
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You can't force someone to give you his/her assets if no agreement from the very first place :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules: :rules:
Requires organized gangwar - with an OOC deal from the beginning :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn: :gn:
(http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/Themes/default/images/warnwarn.gif) stop using too much smilies
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Dude !! you use too much Smileys
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Smiley spam ftw
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I'm tired. Said "good night", but didn't go to bed.
Anyway. Now it's time for :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:
Lunch.
Sorry for the smileys. May God be with you. :pop:
No DMing :m4: :sig: :war:
That will make people cry :cry: :hit:...
...and moan :flame: :flame: :flame: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :devroll:
Leads to flaming, happiness and...confusion :neutral: :trust: :conf: :lol: :D ;) :) :razz:
Whatever.
Just, gang wars should be allowed, but as many stated before.
Organized, both side's agreements in OOC from the beginning.
Just :m4: :m4: :m4: :m4: :m4: :sig: :sig: :sig: :sig: :sig: :sig: and no scamming, flaming or treathening meanwhile should be allowed.
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You can't force someone to give you his/her assets if no agreement from the very first place
Requires organized gangwar - with an OOC deal from the beginning
(http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/Themes/default/images/warnwarn.gif) stop using too much smilies
1. Yes we can.
2. A fight about an asset is not OOC at all, even if there would be OOC and IC.
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First of all, smileys are here for use.
Nothing will happen neither.
System wont crash, if - it would have crashed long time ago.
Secondly, remove the smileys if they are NOT suppose to be used, or just mute them. I think there is a possibility to do that.
It's an emotion, a way to express yourself. Shouldn't matter how much you use.
Look around in every f**king topic on the forum and you'll see "smiley spammers" as you prefer to call it.
Warn them please, to make this a fair game.
Thirdly. This hangs with the 2 first ones.
Write that in forum rules: "Don't abuse smileys". I'm sure the react will lead:
:lol: Lame. "Abuse smileys"? Do you even hear how it sounds like.
Another topic.
You can't just start a war with a family, and then the winner of the war says that the losers shall give them what they want. Which means you will need too talk in OOC/IC before. But..IC: "Hey, you. Stracci guy. If we win this way - give us your castle!", that..sounds... :trust:?
So yes, you gotta talk before the gangwar.
About the 1st answer you gave me. Perhaps ADMINS can, but players...
"Hey, you. Yes, you. Give me your car or I'll report you to admins". "OK, because Gandalf said you can do that by a reason, so, here you go".
(http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/Themes/default/images/warnpmod.gif) We make the rules. You have a choice, follow them or stop posting.
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Another topic.
You can't just start a war with a family, and then the winner of the war says that the losers shall give them what they want. Which means you will need too talk in OOC/IC before. But..IC: "Hey, you. Stracci guy. If we win this way - give us your castle!", that..sounds... :trust:?
So yes, you gotta talk before the gangwar.
About the 1st answer you gave me. Perhaps ADMINS can, but players...
"Hey, you. Yes, you. Give me your car or I'll report you to admins". "OK, because Gandalf said you can do that by a reason, so, here you go".
(http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/Themes/default/images/warnpmod.gif) We make the rules. You have a choice, follow them or stop posting.
I guess you do not get the idea of RP at all.
Before starting a gang war, you need to have a RP reason why you are going to get a gang war.
That should not be like 'ok what we fight about', but a good RP leading to a reason why all people involved would risk losing their life. In theory the time to build up a gang war can be days or weeks.
If a gang war is settled and the losing party does not want to give up what they lost, we can enforce it. That is what I meant, not a random give it to me', which is not allowed even for the highest leaders without reason.
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Beeing enemies is a proper reason.
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Beeing enemies is a proper reason.
so you suggest, that if you are enemies you can do a gangwar?
Let me tell you something, if this reason would be applied, there would be gangwars 24/7 untill nobody has money to shoot again ...
nothing personal tough, but i just don't see this work
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so you suggest, that if you are enemies you can do a gangwar?
Let me tell you something, if this reason would be applied, there would be gangwars 24/7 untill nobody has money to shoot again ...
nothing personal tough, but i just don't see this work
Nothing personal, but it's better than RP'ing a pokemon..
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Nothing personal, but it's better than RP'ing a pokemon..
Owned.
By the way, no there wouldn't be gangwars 24/7, if we would set a limit for daily attacks, it would be fine.
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I got something to say.
I didn't try to create any new rules, but you moderated me for that reason.
Why?
I have the right for my opinion, and my expression - as long as it isn't meant towards anyone.
"Follow them or stop posting". What do you mean by that? Should I follow them or stop posting and NOT follow them?
You probably couldn't find any good answer for my statement, that's why you moderated me?
But, let's drop that. As I probably know why you moderated me. No good answer on that you did NOT have.
Though, you have to settle something up with the other gang BEFORE the war starts up, you said.
But that was my POINT as you didn't seem to understand and instead moderated me.
They have to talk before the gangwar, but you say only in roleplay. They can't meet up and then say for example: "Okay, due to that you took our car and later dumped it last week. We'd like to settle up a war with you. We'll get your headquarter if we win, you'll get our if you win". Gang wars are suppose to be illegal and towards someone. How can you meet up with the person and request a gang war? Then it seems like you don't see the whole point of roleplaying. THAT'S why you gotta settle it up in OOC. As you're already enemies.
Please, don't deny this post. Just shows how unsure you are what the answers will be on what I just said.
Hope you understand what I just wrote, try to give it some time if you don't.
OK, I got warned due to the smiley spam. Smileys may get people confused, OK!
But moderated for INvalid reason? Please, check your reason and try to see if you realize something with it.
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Owned.
By the way, no there wouldn't be gangwars 24/7, if we would set a limit for daily attacks, it would be fine.
That should not be like 'ok what we fight about', but a good RP leading to a reason why all people involved would risk losing their life. In theory the time to build up a gang war can be days or weeks.
Several daily attacks sounds like lack of Rp interest and let the guns RP for you 24/7 instead.. Which mean __, <-- (you know what i would say there..)
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Several daily attacks sounds like lack of Rp interest and let the guns RP for you 24/7 instead.. Which mean __, <-- you know what i would say there..
Now let me grab the arguement, you guys always grab up if you moan : We are not in reallife here, this is a game. Recoverytimes is way shorter and so on.
1 Attack per hour - Maximum Attack per day : 3
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Nothing personal, but it's better than RP'ing a pokemon..
Wow that really hurted my feelings ... ahh well :)
guess according to you, you cannot rp anything what isn't 'cool' or what so ever ...
Rp is something wich goes wider than a criminal you know?
And for the record: in case you didn't notice, i now roleplay a normal man...
Guess you were busy laughing to much or what so ever.
Note to self : never attack a gangwar topic by bad critic, they'll all turn against you
Anyways, let's stay on the topic shall we :)
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i just read through all 16 pages...
and all i can make of this is people who never RP anything exept a grumpy 'gang' member want a reason to DM and be able to call it something else and not only a reason to DM, now they can call DM a 'gang war' which is just pointless...,
theres enough so called 'gang wars' around anyway, i drive past stracci HQ because my sultan was inside and i get shot for no dam reason by a stracci guy...
he claims its RP... WTF.. he says nothing then shoots me and my car with a combat shotgun (the weapon for people who fail at shooting)
Another thing is every time i see a gang war happen and a cop comes and sus the people for shooting they cry to admins "abuse abuse" which it total bull... you shoot a weapon, a cop has the right to sus you, just because its a 'gang war' means nothing... cops can still break it up to save the civilians.. even when there is none around...
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i just read through all 16 pages...
and all i can make of this is people who never RP anything exept a grumpy 'gang' member want a reason to DM and be able to call it something else,
theres enough so called 'gang wars' around anyway, i drive past stracci HQ because my sultan was inside and i get shot for no dam reason by a stracci guy...
he claims its RP... WTF.. he says nothing then shoots me and my car with a combat shotgun (the weapon for people who fail at shooting)
Stop...Moaning...Please...And...Combat...Shotgun...Rocks.
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Stop...Moaning...Please...And...Combat...Shotgun...Rocks.
People have a right to have a opinion and to express it in a friendly way.
Please keep that in mind
its not because he doesn't share a opinion you do, you have to star by saying 'stop moaning or what so ever'
~Trunks
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Now let me grab the arguement, you guys always grab up if you moan : We are not in reallife here, this is a game. Recoverytimes is way shorter and so on.
1 Attack per hour - Maximum Attack per day : 3
Gang wars should not be held 24/7. One gang war per day for me personally is way to often. It should be held once per week maximum in my opinion, as I hardly believe there would be proper reasons to start wars that often...
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People have a right to have a opinion and to express it in a friendly way.
Please keep that in mind
its not because he doesn't share a opinion you do, you have to star by saying 'stop moaning or what so ever'
~Trunks
If you read that post you can see that he is not sharing opinion but moaning.
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If you read that post you can see that he is not sharing opinion but moaning.
Read my post instead of just posting out of nowhere ...
I said he DOESNT share the opinion you have...
and he is allowed to do so !
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Read my post instead of just posting out of nowhere ...
I said he DOESNT share the opinion you have...
and he is allowed to do so !
He is not sharing any opinion, he is just saying that Straccis attacked him with a combat shotgun -_-
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Stop...Moaning...Please...And...Combat...Shotgun...Rocks.
i honestly think you didnt read a single word, you come out for no reason and say im moaning , i got the right to my opinion and its not even once off stracci shoot me, every time i go near i get shot and i always find my car there at their HQ now stop telling me what to do, i can share my opinion...
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Gang wars should not be held 24/7. One gang war per day for me personally is way to often. It should be held once per week maximum in my opinion, as I hardly believe there would be proper reasons to start wars that often...
1 attack daily should be good - Mafias/Gangs/Groups can decide it themselves, if they wanna use their chance of a shootout now or later.
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He is not sharing any opinion, he is just saying that Straccis attacked him with a combat shotgun -_-
i just read through all 16 pages...
and all i can make of this is people who never RP anything exept a grumpy 'gang' member want a reason to DM and be able to call it something else and not only a reason to DM, now they can call DM a 'gang war' which is just pointless...,
Here's the opinion he has, now stay on topic
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Beeing enemies is a proper reason.
By the way, no there wouldn't be gangwars 24/7, if we would set a limit for daily attacks, it would be fine.
1 attack daily should be good - Mafias/Gangs/Groups can decide it themselves, if they wanna use their chance of a shootout now or later.
Agreed.
And a gang shootout and getting attacked should be a suprise, instead of making up how everything should be in the war with both sides.
Gang wars can also be good RP.
People should be able to handle that, and getting attacked at any time any day. It's just something you should be able to take when you're in a criminal group.
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I got something to say.
I didn't try to create any new rules, but you moderated me for that reason.
Why?
I have the right for my opinion, and my expression - as long as it isn't meant towards anyone.
"Follow them or stop posting". What do you mean by that? Should I follow them or stop posting and NOT follow them?
You probably couldn't find any good answer for my statement, that's why you moderated me?
Lets not mix up things. You used a ridiculous amount of smilies which is against any forum etiquette and got warned for it by an owner. Then you decide to object to that as you feel entitled to use them.
This is reason to get you to moderated status, with the very clear reason that I set the rules and its up ti you to abide by them. If you wish to be allowed to use 100 smilies in your posts, make it a suggestion.
But, let's drop that. As I probably know why you moderated me. No good answer on that you did NOT have.
Though, you have to settle something up with the other gang BEFORE the war starts up, you said.
But that was my POINT as you didn't seem to understand and instead moderated me.
As I already reacted on your post, it should have been clear that the moderated status had nothing to do with your opinion on gang wars. The above paragraph will have made it completely clear.
I would suggest to you to cease the hidden hints towards invalid moderating and instead apologize for you misunderstanding the reasons.
They have to talk before the gangwar, but you say only in roleplay. They can't meet up and then say for example: "Okay, due to that you took our car and later dumped it last week. We'd like to settle up a war with you. We'll get your headquarter if we win, you'll get our if you win". Gang wars are suppose to be illegal and towards someone. How can you meet up with the person and request a gang war? Then it seems like you don't see the whole point of roleplaying. THAT'S why you gotta settle it up in OOC. As you're already enemies.
Gang war are not supposed to be without warning. That is a gang ambush, not a gang war.
To settle a HQ against damage to a car is a ridiculous example. Get a grip on RP.
And there still is no OOC.
Please, don't deny this post. Just shows how unsure you are what the answers will be on what I just said.
Hope you understand what I just wrote, try to give it some time if you don't.
OK, I got warned due to the smiley spam. Smileys may get people confused, OK!
But moderated for INvalid reason? Please, check your reason and try to see if you realize something with it.
My reason for moderating was valid. You are the one who does not understand.
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Beeing enemies is a proper reason.
As a gang you are enemies with the cops, does that mean that cops are allowed to fire and kill gang at any time ?
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You could just have said it was due to the smileys you moderated and warned me. And no, it's not written up in the rules that you're not allowed to "ABUSE" smileys.
All I said after the warn about the smiley thing was that I thought it was a very wimpy reason in my opinion, as nothing dangerous could happen to the forum, THEN you moderated me for being defensive.
Anyway, explain how the hell people can request assets from another gang if they win a war if it isn't discussed before with the opposite gang!? You said that it's not supposed to be discussed - the opposite, a surprise.
Then this thing about the other gang should get the other gangs assets cannot exist, as if, it have to be discussed before. Or...this could be something I just got up in my mind. If this is more how you meant, then respond if it is.
Gang 1 managed to take gang 2's leader as hostage.
"Give us your Premier or you and you're buddies are as good as dead".
Either, the leader accepts or refuses.
But here comes this thing though, I doubt they really will give the Premier away - and except die, or powergame to survive.
OK, so, I accept that I HAVE been warned due to the smiley shit. But I still think the moderate level is totally fucked up - even though you tried to give good reasons. But all I could find was that I defended myself by talking.
"Oh, here comes Gandalf :gand: and puts me under "Moderated", because I can't - so it gives advantage to him, hihihi." No, that was how I felt, but, unsure if I feel like that anymore.
Could you just answer how long this "Moderated" thingy will remain? Depends on the victim's behaviour?
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As a gang you are enemies with the cops, does that mean that cops are allowed to fire and kill gang at any time ?
True Gandalf, and no Double-Post please ;) you should know the rules old timer...
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You could just have said it was due to the smileys you moderated and warned me. And no, it's not written up in the rules that you're not allowed to "ABUSE" smileys.
3. Act maturely.
Just like on server we do not intend to write a lawbook on every written and unwritten rule.
All I said after the warn about the smiley thing was that I thought it was a very wimpy reason in my opinion, as nothing dangerous could happen to the forum, THEN you moderated me for being defensive.
I moderated you for not accepting the warning. But I could go further for you trying to take this thread off-topic.
Anyway, explain how the hell people can request assets from another gang if they win a war if it isn't discussed before with the opposite gang!? You said that it's not supposed to be discussed - the opposite, a surprise.
Then this thing about the other gang should get the other gangs assets cannot exist, as if, it have to be discussed before. Or...this could be something I just got up in my mind. If this is more how you meant, then respond if it is.
If you read the previous posts, you will see that I never mentiond it is not supposed to be discussed, on the contrary the gang war should be the highlight of a long RP story, and caonclude that story.
What I did say is that we do not have an OOC/IC difference, besides that a good RPer will be able to lead up to a gang war IC.
Gang 1 managed to take gang 2's leader as hostage.
"Give us your Premier or you and you're buddies are as good as dead".
Either, the leader accepts or refuses.
But here comes this thing though, I doubt they really will give the Premier away - and except die, or powergame to survive.
While the gang leaders are hostage, the gang has two options: call the cops or solve it themselves.
A car is just a car, lives are lives.
OK, so, I accept that I HAVE been warned due to the smiley shit. But I still think the moderate level is totally f**ked up - even though you tried to give good reasons. But all I could find was that I defended myself by talking.
"Oh, here comes Gandalf :gand: and puts me under "Moderated", because I can't - so it gives advantage to him, hihihi." No, that was how I felt, but, unsure if I feel like that anymore.
Could you just answer how long this "Moderated" thingy will remain? Depends on the victim's behaviour?
The moderated level is due to not accepting the punishment. It will last for 5 days.
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Yo marcus, i got respect for you and all but seriously, just stop... whats the use of challenging admins and especially admins that have loads of power like Gandalf,
it wont solve anything... its better to just leave it...
and i know gandalf will take more serious actions if you persist on since this will be annoying him.. im sure...
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lets just keep it on topic
being enemies a good reason?
not really, there must be a more exact reason to do such a big attack
attack on a member, attack on a house/bizz/HQ or so
not small things as a little flame or so
:ps: Jack, combat shotgun doesnt rock but suck, skill-less weapon, deagle rocks
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As a gang you are enemies with the cops, does that mean that cops are allowed to fire and kill gang at any time ?
Totally senseless in my eyes ; You're totally mixing up the relations between a Police Enforcement Team and a Gang.
A gang and a gang have a total different sight of beeing enemies: They do random drive-by's/shootouts/brawls for a reason; They want to destroy/rob/kill/spray the hood/take over territory of the enemygang.
The relation between the Police is totally different. The gang doesn't see the Police as an offcial Enemie. They don't attack cops for no reason/don't rob em etc.
It's just totally different.
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In gang wars, there should be some weapon restrictions.
For example:
Allowed: Deagle, silenced, shotgun, combat, smg, ak-47.
Not Allowed: Tec9, Mac-10, M4, sniper, Sawn-offs, 9mm.
Something like that, just a suggestion.
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I just keep getting owned by him :gand:. Perhaps because he's 20+, more English knowledge :rules: and stuffs.
Anyway, you should be allowed to either accept or not accept the punishment. You can still mute someone. I didn't really accept it - because the reason was like :poke: for me. Act maturely. By using smileys = not acting maturely. OK, will keep that in mind. Yes, admins can always ban, kick, warn, mute, unmute, unban, moderate, delete warns and stuffs, all that shit normal players can't, but many of them still doing the same shitty thing. That's why I wont go further in discussion now and keep getting owned.
Yo marcus, i got respect for you and all but seriously, just stop... whats the use of challenging admins and especially admins that have loads of power like Gandalf,
it wont solve anything... its better to just leave it...
and i know gandalf will take more serious actions if you persist on since this will be annoying him.. im sure...
You said something. "lots of power". Anyway, yes. Will not fight - I feel too, but no.
OK, on-topic.
How are people suppose to get the other gang's property(-ies) if can't be discussed then, Gandalf?
And sorry, GAH, I hate to apoligize, but...I have to.
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Totally senseless in my eyes ; You're totally mixing up the relations between a Police Enforcement Team and a Gang.
A gang and a gang have a total different sight of beeing enemies: They do random drive-by's/shootouts/brawls for a reason; They want to destroy/rob/kill/spray the hood/take over territory of the enemygang.
The relation between the Police is totally different. The gang doesn't see the Police as an offcial Enemie. They don't attack cops for no reason/don't rob em etc.
It's just totally different.
Incorrect.
Just as there are rules of engagement between criminals and cops, there should be rules of engagement between groups that wish to attack each other. Without those rules there will be what we do not want: constant gang wars.
If you check the psychology of the GTA series carefullt, you see that cops are often displayed as nothing other than a mafia, though with special license. They want control over the cities, just like a mafia wants it.
It is not allowed to attack cops for no reason, and cops can not attack or suspect mafia members for no reason.
similar, members of two mafia groups have no right to attack each other without reason, let alone cause a mass shootout.
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Incorrect.
Just as there are rules of engagement between criminals and cops, there should be rules of engagement between groups that wish to attack each other. Without those rules there will be what we do not want: constant gang wars.
THAT'S why there should be a limit of the ammount of gang wars per day!
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I disagree here.
There is a big difference between Cops vs. Gang and Gang vs. Gang.
Both gangs follow the same goals, wiping their enemies out/killing them/taking over their territory.
If the gangs already had conflicts, this conflict should be a reason to be allowed to attack the gang anytime they want.
A normal gang, would NEVER attack the cops for no reason, they even hide from them.
And yes, it should NOT be allowed to attack cops for no reason.
Also, between gangs, if there has been no "beef", like brawls, argueings whatsoever, random attacks shouldn't take place.
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I just keep getting owned by him :gand:. Perhaps because he's 20+, more English knowledge :rules: and stuffs.
Anyway, you should be allowed to either accept or not accept the punishment. You can still mute someone. I didn't really accept it - because the reason was like :poke: for me. Act maturely. By using smileys = not acting maturely. OK, will keep that in mind. Yes, admins can always ban, kick, warn, mute, unmute, unban, moderate, delete warns and stuffs, all that shit normal players can't, but many of them still doing the same shitty thing. That's why I wont go further in discussion now and keep getting owned.You said something. "lots of power". Anyway, yes. Will not fight - I feel too, but no.
OK, on-topic.
How are people suppose to get the other gang's property(-ies) if can't be discussed then, Gandalf?
And sorry, GAH, I hate to apoligize, but...I have to.
Don't worry, I do not act because of being annoyed, if I would be annoyed I would sit back and wait until I am calm, just as I always advise players to do.
The discussion started from me giving examples of a strong valid reason for a gang war.
Ok. lets make a RP from it. Please not that any name of groups are just for example and can be exchanged with named of other groups and areas.
The Stracci family has their 'Stracci boulevard' where they control the business. As one of their rival groups, the Cems, wishes to get in on the good business there they open a new store.
This allows the Cems to be present near the Stracci businesses, and in general provoke them. Stracci can not just kill the Cems, as they have the right to walk on a public street near their business, and any constant attack would either get them in problems with the cops, or with the Government (admins).
Stracci propose Cems to buy their business, but Cems refuse, as they feel the business is to their advantage.
Then Stracci decide to give Cems an ultimatum: either they sell their business to Stracci, or Stracci will take it by force. To get the answer from Cems, a meeting is held outside the city, in a place where support troops can hide.
The dons meet with their main enforcers, and the meeting can have different outcomes:
1. The Dons reach a compromis (unlikely, but possible)
2. One of the groups feels outnumbered and give up to the demands
3. There will be a fight, and the winning group gets the business.
As you see a valid RP scenario, that can be played over a number of days or weeks, and has a clear ending with possible gang war.
What would not be allowed in this case:
- holding the war on Stracci Boulevard, as a spawnpoint is near
- after the war is over the losing group making a new war for the same reason
- if the business is lost, the losing group refusing to sell it to the winning group.
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THAT'S why there should be a limit of the ammount of gang wars per day!
And how should admins know the limit ?
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Well good luck with your idea :P
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I disagree here.
There is a big difference between Cops vs. Gang and Gang vs. Gang.
Both gangs follow the same goals, wiping their enemies out/killing them/taking over their territory.
If the gangs already had conflicts, this conflict should be a reason to be allowed to attack the gang anytime they want.
A normal gang, would NEVER attack the cops for no reason, they even hide from them.
And yes, it should NOT be allowed to attack cops for no reason.
Also, between gangs, if there has been no "beef", like brawls, argueings whatsoever, random attacks shouldn't take place.
No difference at all.
Cops want to wipe out crime and control the city.
Gangs want to wipe out their rivals and control the city.
Where is the difference ?
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Cops want to wipe out crime and control the city.
Gangs want to wipe out their rivals and control the city.
I was going to disagree with your first point, but then I saw this quote and I changed my mind, since its actually very correct. ;)
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why make all these discussions about this??? the topic was for people to vote either 'yes' or 'no' and its become a mass debate and discussion.. this is going insane... :poke:
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We're discussing about posible terms&conditions of gang wars. The discussion is needed in order to accept/deny petition.
Sorry for possible late responce - using my phone :)
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i know that inko but the issue with the smileys.. way off from whats goin on, and i still deny the thing of this petition, it will risk too many and be a issue all the time... there will be 'gangwars' all the time daily... people are bored, they go and shoot some guy from another gang then start a 'gang war'... -.-
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I seriously hate to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole...
Here's my opinion, SCRAP all regulations and conditions for gang wars. For god sakes, a lot of people here seem to miss the whole point of a gang war. The actual point of a gang war is to express a familys hate against another family. People seem to be stuck with the illusion that this hate is only RP'ed in-game, but in 90% of the cases it is not.
People are scared that if there are no strict regulations, gang wars will repeat 24/7. But this is another illusion. You have any idea how much a single war costs? You can't attack other families 24/7, because even if you have 20 million - you will still feel it.
A lot of people want rules bound to this, but I say that is complete nonsense. You can't tie regulations to chaos, you just can't. Gang wars are not supposed to be organised. They are supposed to be cruel and unannounced. Most of you forgot, but this is Grand Theft Auto. This is an RPing server yes, not a DMing server. But DMing is something much different than a little family action.
But of course, if you don't agree you can always just carry on with your '/me'-culture of describing every little action in detail and scream when you see somebody use a single line in capslock on public chat. Go right ahead.
/me puts his hand on his keyboard and starts typing, while listening to a little ring in the background which seems to sound like a bird. Or a bird? Maybe it's a train. Hmm.
/me thinks real hard.
/me puts his other hand on the keyboard.
/me starts typing more with a smile on his face.
/me presses some buttons while he puts his left hand on a bottle filled with an unknown drink.
/me raises the glass and puts it on his lips.
/me thinks about life.
/me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me
Seriously people, get back in touch with reality! This is a game!
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I seriously hate to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole...
Here's my opinion, SCRAP all regulations and conditions for gang wars. For god sakes, a lot of people here seem to miss the whole point of a gang war. The actual point of a gang war is to express a familys hate against another family. People seem to be stuck with the illusion that this hate is only RP'ed in-game, but in 90% of the cases it is not.
People are scared that if there are no strict regulations, gang wars will repeat 24/7. But this is another illusion. You have any idea how much a single war costs? You can't attack other families 24/7, because even if you have 20 million - you will still feel it.
A lot of people want rules bound to this, but I say that is complete nonsense. You can't tie regulations to chaos, you just can't. Gang wars are not supposed to be organised. They are supposed to be cruel and unannounced. Most of you forgot, but this is Grand Theft Auto. This is an RPing server yes, not a DMing server. But DMing is something much different than a little family action.
But of course, if you don't agree you can always just carry on with your '/me'-culture of describing every little action in detail and scream when you see somebody use a single line in capslock on public chat. Go right ahead.
/me puts his hand on his keyboard and starts typing, while listening to a little ring in the background which seems to sound like a bird. Or a bird? Maybe it's a train. Hmm.
/me thinks real hard.
/me puts his other hand on the keyboard.
/me starts typing more with a smile on his face.
/me presses some buttons while he puts his left hand on a bottle filled with an unknown drink.
/me raises the glass and puts it on his lips.
/me thinks about life.
/me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me
Seriously people, get back in touch with reality! This is a game, not a novel!
Fucking word!!
I couldn't agree more with this, even if my 18 testicles were involved.
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I seriously hate to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole...
Here's my opinion, SCRAP all regulations and conditions for gang wars. For god sakes, a lot of people here seem to miss the whole point of a gang war. The actual point of a gang war is to express a familys hate against another family. People seem to be stuck with the illusion that this hate is only RP'ed in-game, but in 90% of the cases it is not.
People are scared that if there are no strict regulations, gang wars will repeat 24/7. But this is another illusion. You have any idea how much a single war costs? You can't attack other families 24/7, because even if you have 20 million - you will still feel it.
A lot of people want rules bound to this, but I say that is complete nonsense. You can't tie regulations to chaos, you just can't. Gang wars are not supposed to be organised. They are supposed to be cruel and unannounced. Most of you forgot, but this is Grand Theft Auto. This is an RPing server yes, not a DMing server. But DMing is something much different than a little family action.
But of course, if you don't agree you can always just carry on with your '/me'-culture of describing every little action in detail and scream when you see somebody use a single line in capslock on public chat. Go right ahead.
/me puts his hand on his keyboard and starts typing, while listening to a little ring in the background which seems to sound like a bird. Or a bird? Maybe it's a train. Hmm.
/me thinks real hard.
/me puts his other hand on the keyboard.
/me starts typing more with a smile on his face.
/me presses some buttons while he puts his left hand on a bottle filled with an unknown drink.
/me raises the glass and puts it on his lips.
/me thinks about life.
/me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me /me
Seriously people, get back in touch with reality! This is a game!
Well, there you have the Corleone version of this petition. I was waiting for Daniel to respond on it, so on behalf of Corleone, if you want to gangwar for no reason (its true, most gangwars are caused for HE CORLEONE, KILL HIM or oh em geee, he killed me yesterday, nao we kill all with his tag :banana:). If you want to make your enemies bodies blue, organise a weekly clan/gang war time between groups on Paruni server, where it will still be moderated.
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I totally agree with Daniel, and inherently disagree with any rules around gangwars whatsoever. I'm happy for total all out warfare 24/7.
That said, war is bloody expensive and I know the Araatus/Gvardia war totally burned half my cash in 2 weeks.
Whatever I think, the main admins want rules - the gangs are happy without but as we are on Argonath we must adhere to server rules, same applies here. :)
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This server will just turn into a DM server with cops and robbers and regular group wars eventually. :trust:
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I totally agree with Daniel, and inherently disagree with any rules around gangwars whatsoever. I'm happy for total all out warfare 24/7.
That said, war is bloody expensive and I know the Araatus/Gvardia war totally burned half my cash in 2 weeks.
Whatever I think, the main admins want rules - the gangs are happy without but as we are on Argonath we must adhere to server rules, same applies here. :)
Why can't we just use Paruni, it not like a lot of people /me when doing a gangwar, they just shoot... it will reduce a hell of a lot of moaning on main chat - but give more work for Paruni admins, but I don't mind that myself.
I personally am against the 24/7 gangwaring idea, as it will involve people coming back after death, spawn killing, starting gang war for no proper reasons and a whole host of things by some people.
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This server will just turn into a DM server with cops and robbers and regular group wars eventually. :trust:
Man, that would be expensive.. good fun for awhile though.
Why can't we just use Paruni, it not like a lot of people /me when doing a gangwar, they just shoot...
Yea I guess, but Paruni is an awful faff when I could just charge straight up to Gvardia and attack (hypothetically).
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Yea I guess, but Paruni is an awful faff when I could just charge straight up to Gvardia and attack (hypothetically).
You will probably get reported for deathmatching by some who don't understand gang war roleplay yet... I think Paruni is the best way forward, I would like to see Argonath RPG still as a RPG server, allowing gang wars with rules that 95 per cent of the new members of gangs/mafias will not follow will essentially remove the Argonath from the RPG.
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You will probably get reported for deathmatching by some who don't understand gang war roleplay yet... I think Paruni is the best way forward, I would like to see Argonath RPG still as a RPG server, allowing gang wars with rules that 95 per cent of the new members of gangs/mafias will not follow will essentially remove the Argonath from the RPG.
IF they dont follow the rules, they get punish, easy.
Moving to Paruni ? Hell no. It loses it touch, atmosphere, its like lets move to Call Of Duty, and have a shoutout to resolve our issues...
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IF they dont follow the rules, they get punish, easy.
Moving to Paruni ? Hell no. It loses it touch, atmosphere, its like lets move to Call Of Duty, and have a shoutout to resolve our issues...
And banning half of the server won't cause more moaning?
What do you mean it looses its touch? Its exactly the same thing, you are shooting other people for no reason apart from they have a tag that you don't like or that they killed you some day last month. Gangwars are not in arenas in real life if you are trying to imply that Paruni is a DM server, so it is different from the gang wars that happen today, you are giving an opinion without any substancial proof behind it. I've seen good shootouts between Corleone, Old Montana Stracci and Araatus, a long time ago, and I will be the first to say, there was good roleplay, nobody moaned, nobody came back, nobody hacked, nobody spawnkilled, nobody revengekilled two days after the gang war and followed all the rules but most of all it was actually fun spending half your cash on unrestricted gang wars, but sadly I haven't seen a proper no moaning shootout with any other group other than them four for quite some time.
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Violet thats the old good old days.. those are no more... evenything is different now.. so many possibilities are gone...
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If you guys are not going to follow rules, we will not allow gang wars.
Simple.
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If you guys are not going to follow rules, we will not allow gang wars.
Simple.
We will follow the rules :D
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Moving to Paruni ? Hell no. It loses it touch, atmosphere, its like lets move to Call Of Duty, and have a shoutout to resolve our issues...
You're just saying that because you get owned on Paruni.
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We will follow the rules :D
Yeah right, more like bend the rules and for how long will you follow the rules? :poke:
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Violet if the gangwars are on Paruni (which i 30% like) how is what gandalf said going to be used?
When gangs have a war over a business the winning gang gets the bizz.
How is that going to be kept if they use paruni?
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So the Main Admins are still waiting for a Reason why to have a war with someone, someone please get an idea for that.
Thanks
Post Merge: June 25, 2009, 12:45:14 pm
I totally agree with Daniel, and inherently disagree with any rules around gangwars whatsoever. I'm happy for total all out warfare 24/7.
That said, war is bloody expensive and I know the Araatus/Gvardia war totally burned half my cash in 2 weeks.
Whatever I think, the main admins want rules - the gangs are happy without but as we are on Argonath we must adhere to server rules, same applies here. :)
I agree, wars are expensive to finance, so it wouldnt be 24-7 anyways, I guess.
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If Cems takes over Straccis HQ, can Stracci try to take it back like in.. 2 weeks?
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So the Main Admins are still waiting for a Reason why to have a war with someone, someone please get an idea for that.
Thanks
Some pretty simple suggestions:
* Mafia A gives the FBI some information about Mafia B. Mafia B feels that their reputation got damaged and starts a mob war.
* Mafia A starts doing crimes at the territory of Mafia B. Mafia B doesn't find that appropriate and starts a mob war.
* Mafia's A and C are doing a deal at their HQ. Mafia B breaks into the HQ, starts a shoot-out, making mobsters fall back, and leaves with cash and drugs. Mafia's A and C declare a war against Mafia B.
* Mafia A accepts a hit on the consigliere of Mafia B. The consigliere got shot at, however the assassination has failed. The bullet went through his hand into his leg. The consigliere survived, but he had to use wheelchair for a month (Real-life week or 5 days for example - just an example of role-play). He recognised some of the people who were after him. Mafia B declared a war against Mafia A.
* Mafia A attempts to take over the contacts of Mafia B (government workers, corrupt cops, etc.). Mafia B finds out about it and declares a mob war..
* Mafia A takes over a business (for example a taxi company , whatever) of Mafia B. Mafia B declares a war.. bla bla bla
Lots of situations can happen...
If Cems takes over Straccis HQ, can Stracci try to take it back like in.. 2 weeks?
This simply is not appropriate, gangs are more like street thugs, they shouldn't be involved in mob wars...
Mafia's should be much more serious comparing to gangs.
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Yeah right, more like bend the rules and for how long will you follow the rules? :poke:
I hope the weapon prizes will raise, cos at the moment it's like buying candy and you get some metal bullets instead :redface: Cos at the moment not many is careful with there life's or items they have on themselves cos it's to cheap..
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Why not just take the gang war to Paruni? Instead of disturbing the role play on Argonath?
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The problem of gang wars are not in rules for each gang war... but in people (players)...
Yes you can make a rule of no respawn killing... But how exactly you want to control it? You cannot control all your members - how want you to control others?
I was thinking about it a long time ago, made a topic in Clans HQ to hear any thoughts about gang wars but did not get any respond from group leaders of Clan HQ...
Lets clear it up...
1. Any reason for gang war which is including real game stuff, like territory/property - already should involve admins... Which we do not support at all... They have enough work without spectating all gang wars and fight who said first a "bad word"... Especially to investigate was the reason correct or not... And especially if other gang will start complain (with losing the real stuff yeah will be complains and will be abuse as well)...
2. No any gang leader can control all involved gangsters... Who came after who came twice etc...
3. Gang wars should not be restricted to some special place (take this place and make there gang wars)... That is not a paintball club...
4. Gang wars will be often... Not because of bad leaders but because of specific of game, where players connect to server in different time... Connected later members can not know that "today we already had a gang war"...
5. Also I do not support the idea of gang war taking place on other server... :conf:
With this all the rules which can be used - are nothing...
The one thing that can make it correct and nice in roleplay - gangs themselves...
Let me tell you one long time ago situation...
RockStars Clan was invited to the clan war by its "old friends"... The reason was "Lets see who suck"... We almost agreed... But the RockStars Clan Founder Servius denied such clan war even though he was the best deathmatcher and veteran of clan wars... Clooak remembers the times of -MS- clan wars I think... The clan war was denied because of the reason the opponents came with... It was full of hate and flame... He was correct: wins R* clan - and "old friends" will attack and flame us even more... Win "old friends" - and the shit will go more with happy asses instead of faces... Servius denied war because DOES NOT MATTER which RESULT could be: it was from the beginning not enjoyable stuff...
And simply why: the game is a game, people play it to enjoy and not for flames and insults...
This is the main reason why gangs complain on each other... They do not understand - that being friends will make gang wars much more enjoyable then being harsh to each other... Being in one gang does not mean to hate other players... And gangsters do not see the difference between gangster and player...
The problem which have criminals towards ARPD or "veterans" to "noobs"...
Gangs should develop the idea not in "rules", though they can make some rules inside their gang wars relations (that is not difficult to discuss with each other and members), but should develop idea in relations to each other...
I know what shock players got after my announce about 3 gangs leaders as admins... But one of the good sides - they will see themselves the admins possibilities and will understand why admins are very strict in this question...
This will also (hope so) help them to understand that they all are equal for developers, and will show (hope so again) that developers decided to help them with it by giving their leaders the moderators statuses...
Forget about admin control after every gang war...
Nowadays - it is in your hands to improve gangs roleplay between each other, in communication with new players and in responsibility for every chaos your gang war can cause...
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Very nice words, but your last sentence, does that mean we now got the responsibillity to take responsibillity on everyone´s faults in our groups, instead of Admins? If that is your last point, I guess this Petition is accepted.
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1. Any reason for gang war which is including real game stuff, like territory/property - already should involve admins... Which we do not support at all... They have enough work without spectating all gang wars and fight who said first a "bad word"... Especially to investigate was the reason correct or not... And especially if other gang will start complain (with losing the real stuff yeah will be complains and will be abuse as well)...
Forget about admin control after every gang war...
Nowadays - it is in your hands to improve gangs roleplay between each other, in communication with new players and in responsibility for every chaos your gang war can cause...
Very nice words, but your last sentence, does that mean we now got the responsibillity to take responsibillity on everyone´s faults in our groups, instead of Admins? If that is your last point, I guess this Petition is accepted.
It just confirmed my point of view that admins should not be a babysitters. Instead of that, gangs should take own things in their hands and deal with it.
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And you know what, Brains? That is exactly one of my goals that I were trying to reach, you can see if you read some of my posts..:)
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I think everything what Aragorn said, is pure truth, and we will try to get our gangs/mafias to improve that way.
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All groups that wish to gang-war should do so privatley and try to go un-noticed, so admins have nothing to whine about. :-D
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All groups that wish to gang-war should do so privatley and try to go un-noticed, so admins have nothing to whine about. :-D
Which would break the rules technically as the admins were not aware of it and will treat it as Deathmatching.
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Which would break the rules technically as the admins were not aware of it and will treat it as Deathmatching.
There isn't a problem unless the other party starts whining to the admins that the attacking party is deathmatching. Only then.
But really, if you are being attacked by a whole family who have invested a great sum of money into weapons and protection, it usually means you have done something wrong...
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There isn't a problem unless the other party starts whining to the admins that the attacking party is deathmatching. Only then.
But there is the issue, even if both gangs agree to hold it (and isolated, mind) and nobody whines, some admins feel it is right to 'butt in' so to speak. The simply broken logic of this fact is why many people got annoyed at David breaking up the Stracci/Gvardia thing when this topic was made, despite nobody reporting.
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Yeah even some times i fight with someone 1 vs 1 some admin freezes us both and asks why we DM when we were doing a fight in role play, even when none of us used /report.
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But there is the issue, even if both gangs agree to hold it (and isolated, mind) and nobody whines, some admins feel it is right to 'butt in' so to speak. The simply broken logic of this fact is why many people got annoyed at David breaking up the Stracci/Gvardia thing when this topic was made, despite nobody reporting.
Once again, it's sad to see Argonath turning into a bureaucratic hole. :(
Anyway, if one admin seems to act so bureaucratical about this when both parties agree, just respond by explaining to him that you are holding an 'event' just like the RI:FC, where I don't see people getting banned for participating.
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You're just saying that because you get owned on Paruni.
I get owned ? Wanna test me ?
Violet i am the first guy who sayed if gangwar rules aply, it shoud happend MAXIMUM Once a day, cause 24/7 shotout arent gangwars, its a DM marathon...
Araatus have gangwar with us, as a try to take over San Fierro again for example. They pick a right moment, announce it with a "signal" , it doesnt have any compensations, cause its consider ONE of the ways for them to make our influence in SF lower. Other way is to buy more propertys, try taking drug, arms, hooker, extortion market from us, but yes, gangwar is the main way to do it.
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Violet i am the first guy who sayed if gangwar rules aply, it shoud happend MAXIMUM Once a day, cause 24/7 shotout arent gangwars, its a DM marathon...
That won't happen. If it would, we would've experienced it by now. Nobody is waiting to attack eachother 24/7, because it requires a lot of grouping up and with the current range of in-game crashes it is virtually impossible. Next to that, it costs a shitload of money.
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I get owned ? Wanna test me ?
Violet i am the first guy who sayed if gangwar rules aply, it shoud happend MAXIMUM Once a day, cause 24/7 shotout arent gangwars, its a DM marathon...
Araatus have gangwar with us, as a try to take over San Fierro again for example. They pick a right moment, announce it with a "signal" , it doesnt have any compensations, cause its consider ONE of the ways for them to make our influence in SF lower. Other way is to buy more propertys, try taking drug, arms, hooker, extortion market from us, but yes, gangwar is the main way to do it.
This isn't a gangwar/deathmatch server...
Gangwar is not the main way to attain those things, money is.
Gangwar will increase moaning, due to people getting punished for breaking them.
24/7 gangwar doesn't happen now, but you will be more likely to see server rules broken if gangwar is allowed, rules or no rules.
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Well i still stick with not allowing it... the only issue is in Argo theres like 85% of the population is in gangs and mafias,
the other 15% is in businesses and other forms of work who do not want the whole gangwar issue which is pretty unfair tho...
theres no chance there would be enough people to stand against it when you see the amount of people who want to shoot others... -.-
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Gang war can take place... That is not something "omg! that is deathmatch"... But the participants should be responsible for the gang war not to be turned into deathmatch...
If both sides agree and finished gang war successfully - no problems at all... What means successfully? Simple: organized... Gang members stop fight as soon as leaders announced them about it... No any personal flame and provokes with insult if other side (gang) is offended... Here you should know the difference between "role playing" (playing a role) and "real life offense"... Like some people tell us "i swear at them cos gangs do it in real life"... In real life gangs do that to offend really...
What was my idea? Yes, gangs control themselves TOGETHER... Without involving "hey admins watch this!"... Presenting admins as "official spectators" on gang wars - say good bye to the roleplay as it is...
Gang war should not be started by one side...
- Hey why the fuck you attacked us?
- That was a gang war relax!
Wrong way... The opponent gang can have their own plans and roleplay... Not to ruin it - modulate a situation, like setting the place for meeting with playing provokes... That can be just asking for meeting about "you are our problem in this area"... The other gang will understand that your gang is "aggressive"... Such things can be a sign for a possible gang war... Possible! This is the main idea... Gang war is possible but NOT necessary that the meeting will finish with the gang war... Perhaps gangs will make some deal or just try each other on other stuff...
Settings like "Attention Gvardia and Stracci please arrive to the Disneyland for the gang war! Admins spectating will be appreciated" are a total idiotic system of gang wars I can imagine...
Wanna gang war? ok lets try with the freedom in choice of gangs... But... Gangs will be responsible for that... From members to leaders/gang moderators...
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Settings like "Attention Gvardia and Stracci please arrive to the Disneyland for the gang war! Admins spectating will be appreciated" are a total idiotic system of gang wars I can imagine...
I could not agree more, that is a very silly system.
Both groups agreed to have a gang fight before (Stracci and Gvardia), and is was out of the way. However, admins stopped the war with "gangwar = ban" warnings all across screen.
That is why I went for, in my ideas, a system that is mostly self-moderated within gangs and between each leader.
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Quote:
Wanna gang war? ok lets try with the freedom in choice of gangs... But... Gangs will be responsible for that... From members to leaders/gang moderators...
Does this mean we can have Gang-Wars now?
If it does, could Gandalf or Aragorn please respond and write: This Petition has been officially accepted! or something :evil:
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I vote yes, i believe its needed for the roleplay and to see what familly is the strongerst one.
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Lets summarize.
Panda's suggestion seems to incorporate all needed for gang to self-moderate their members, and to know which groups are having 'enemy' status.
As soon as we get valid complaints that the server is tuning in to a 24/7 fighting zone, or the fighting gangs can not control their members the experiment will be stopped. We will be very strong on gangs that do not respect each other or disregard the agreements.
Its up to the groups to make it work, do not disappoint us.
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Its up to the groups to make it work, do not disappoint us.
We will try our hardest to maintain a good standard. :)
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Thank you Gandalf.
We wont.
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Then I would like to declare this Petition OFFICIALLY DONE!
Thanks everyone for all your support!
Could someone make a topic at SAMP groups and write everything there what we just agreed with?
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Will do.
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Awesome!
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Just wait for Panda´s Validation topic ;)
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Awsome..
Should be good when I am hopefully unbanned. :D
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I was thinking about it a long time ago, made a topic in Clans HQ to hear any thoughts about gang wars but did not get any respond from group leaders of Clan HQ...
i was looking for this, but still didnt found where it is,
give a link plz someone
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Gangwars/Conflicts & Validations (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=35369.0)
Post away gang leaders, and we can get the ball rolling.
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Nice.
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Good luck guys, i hope this can be done good :)
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Nice.
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Out of Coments :D
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Gangwars/Conflicts & Validations (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=35369.0)
Post away gang leaders, and we can get the ball rolling.
nice work, tho the heading colours is a bit strenuos to read since it like blends with the blue background :poke:
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nice work, tho the heading colours is a bit strenuos to read since it like blends with the blue background :poke:
Sure, I'll take a look at that a little later and maybe change it. :)
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Validations are not set for a period of time?
So, one group can cancel the war just when they want to do it?
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They can, yea.
But they shouldn't unless they want to look like a fool. :lol:
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They can, yea.
But they shouldn't unless they want to look like a fool. :lol:
Yeah, will be funny..
Win 1 time and cancel the validation, haha.
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Great Idea! just wanted to say it :D
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The poll is now locked!
I would like to specially thank everyone for all they´re effort in this topic and for making this thing work out :)
Everyone, have a nice weekend and have fun ingame!
Yours faithfully,
NitrOx Stracci.
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There will be good Criminals and Cops who will use the Gangwars for more RP situations and fun.
However, there are more rulebreakers who will use the Gangwars for DM.
Sad.
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There will be good Criminals and Cops who will use the Gangwars for more RP situations and fun.
However, there are more rulebreakers who will use the Gangwars for DM.
Sad.
In this case, it's "Fun and sad"
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good luck with it
I personally think gang wars should be allowed since its part of rp in mafia business
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Calton Heights Ballas also agree with it.
Signed Wayne Carlton
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NO WAY.
No war what so ever. Our server is RPG, adding a feature of war..not so real life.
What to do is take the teams who make enemys with everyone.. ;)
Send them out to the middle of the desert like the giant sand town near A51 :help:
And let them kill eachother. :skull: :m4: :sig: No rdm, if a gang member does not want to participate they just stay in socioty.
This way the police can kill the living gang members at the end. :alert" :cop: And as we all know, nobody ever really wins
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NO WAY.
No war what so ever. Our server is RPG, adding a feature of war..not so real life.
What to do is take the teams who make enemys with everyone.. ;)
Send them out to the middle of the desert like the giant sand town near A51 :help:
And let them kill eachother. :skull: :m4: :sig: No rdm, if a gang member does not want to participate they just stay in socioty.
This way the police can kill the living gang members at the end. :alert" :cop: And as we all know, nobody ever really wins
This petition has already been accepted. :razz:
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Um.. this already got accepted.
The validation topic is up and working as intended.
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:devroll:
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i always wonder why poll is locked D :
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The best will be if you just get a place for example stracci HQ or LV staduim or something... Leaders can both agree on time and date.. and it will be done where no civilians are? with admins spectating ofcorse..
and yes 85 % of argonath members are in a mafia/gang... So thats why votes will have more yes :)
i totally agree with this and i am sure that it will be done in a proffesional way....
The best will be if all members in the event is suspected so it can prevent after death re-enter.. Cause name will change from orange to white...
Well goodluck with the gang wars may the best win ;)
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and yes 85 % of argonath members are in a mafia/gang... So thats why votes will have more yes :)
LOLWUT.
There are more ARPD than Mafia or Gang put together.
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and yes 85 % of argonath members are in a mafia/gang... So thats why votes will have more yes :)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7842/bert.jpg).
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Ok so tell me why will normal people vote yes for gang wars? ive seen argonath on a good day... where gangs have more people on than ARPD + civils.
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Because normal people do not get affected by gangwars apart from the distinct lack of police units to pull them over for silly speeding-type offenses.
Its win-win for everybody. A lot of cops voted yes also.