Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 07, 2010, 12:52:51 am

Title: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 07, 2010, 12:52:51 am
Scenario:

Your on the run after just robbed Red County Farm.
Farmer Curse is running after you, although not realising he was robbed he still is shooting at your ass.
Farmer Curse gets bored and goes to passport test people.
Now you are there, with an orange name, because you killed someone a few minutes earlier.
You are suddenly surrounded by cops!
You have no choice but to do /hail, because you're low on ammo/have too much.
You decide to be devious criminal and lie.
Cops come to cuff you, you kick him in the face and grab his civilian buffalo and drive off.

WOAH, stop, you surrendered. Or did you?



Can someone explain?

I use /hail to surrender sometimes.
Because useing /hail animation obviously shows you surrender, also as cops usually do "/me cuffs" and I'm powerless to do anything because cuffed.

But, why cant devious criminals pretend to surrender to save there ass?

Sure, example: Mr.BoBo  does /hail, he goes to LSPD for an investigation, he finds his investigation is denied. He escapes, that's obviously retarded and abusive.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: JayL on October 07, 2010, 12:54:39 am
I believe that if one says ''I surrender'' and does /hail, then they are bound to follow the cops' orders. After all, the rule says not to escape after surrendering.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Gregersen on October 07, 2010, 12:54:58 am
What is the exact point of this topic?
I only see moan here
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 07, 2010, 12:56:45 am
I only see moan here

And you're a Moderator of this forum.

It's not moan for your information.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: JayL on October 07, 2010, 12:57:48 am
What is the exact point of this topic?
I only see moan here

The point of this topic is to clear whether one is allowed to escape after claiming to have surrendered (not /gu) or not. It's called a question, not moaning.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Gregersen on October 07, 2010, 01:01:52 am
If you have /hail'ed and cop HAVEN'T done /me cuffs suspect, you can RUN!
IF you hailed, and the cop did /me cuffs suspect, you HAVE to give up as that is a sign of you giving up.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 07, 2010, 01:03:10 am
If you have /hail'ed and cop HAVEN'T done /me cuffs suspect, you can RUN!
IF you hailed, and the cop did /me cuffs suspect, you HAVE to give up as that is a sign of you giving up.

What if a friend comes along, pretends he's going to kidnap you, takes you away and shoots the cuffs off?  :neutral:


And what about when you do /gu and no cops come for you? You're left there frozen. Mostly if not all of the times you'd want an unsuspecting because you'd rather be role-playing something else.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Gregersen on October 07, 2010, 01:15:34 am
What if a friend comes along, pretends he's going to kidnap you, takes you away and shoots the cuffs off?  :neutral:
Then most likely, he will be suspected.. "/su ID 207" .. = Kidnapping happens, both suspects will be taken down, using lethal force
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Jamal on October 07, 2010, 01:23:55 am
What is the exact point of this topic?
I only see moan here
Where does the attitude of some come from, where asking something about a situation, is immediately moan?

I think the cops should be smart and do what their told to - if they suspect has not /gu 'd, apply force (unless running, use pepper spray or batton only) until suspect is subdued or cooperates with /gu.

Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Cofiliano on October 07, 2010, 01:37:56 am
If you /gu'd you can't run. If you did anything else except that, you can. Simple.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Mikro on October 07, 2010, 01:55:29 am
If you /gu'd you can't run. If you did anything else except that, you can. Simple.

But /gu itself is not a rule as suspects are allowed to surrender without /gu, and are bound to the same restrictions once doing so (not allowed to open fire or run).
But remember that anything you say can and will be used aganst you, and not only in court.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Cofiliano on October 07, 2010, 02:27:11 am
Its called tactics and common sense. Its like when FBI is negotiating with suspects who kidnapped someone, and FBI "agrees" on paying 50,000$ to the kidnappers, as part of their "buy time" tactics. So every time you guys say /L We'll pay the 50k, you're obligated to do it, no mater did  you  /send id 50k or not.

Same criteria.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Jimmy_Bowling on October 07, 2010, 02:49:12 am
Sorry But I am in the process of warning all of the ARPD members of this and I believe we have a policy instituted that means Until you /gu you are known as a unsurrendered suspect. I really dont give 2 shits if your hands are in the air cause I have been in the scenario where he does /hail and when I am typing /me cuffs the man I get combatted to death!!!

It is not right any officer should not approach or lower their weapon until a suspect /gu's
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: SafetyMoose on October 07, 2010, 03:08:51 am
Sorry But I am in the process of warning all of the ARPD members of this and I believe we have a policy instituted that means Until you /gu you are known as a unsurrendered suspect. I really dont give 2 shits if your hands are in the air cause I have been in the scenario where he does /hail and when I am typing /me cuffs the man I get combatted to death!!!

It is not right any officer should not approach or lower their weapon until a suspect /gu's

Im pretty sure Gandalf made the rule that if you do /hail an say oyu give up, then it counts as surrendering
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Boozman on October 07, 2010, 03:10:05 am
Im pretty sure Gandalf made the rule that if you do /hail an say oyu give up, then it counts as surrendering
I recall the same thing, Moose. I have been told to report to administration if it happens.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: SafetyMoose on October 07, 2010, 03:13:04 am
I recall the same thing, Moose. I have been told to report to administration if it happens.

Boozman knows all  :pop:
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Boozman on October 07, 2010, 05:20:57 am
Boozman knows all  :pop:
:gand:
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 07, 2010, 08:45:43 am
Its called tactics and common sense. Its like when FBI is negotiating with suspects who kidnapped someone, and FBI "agrees" on paying 50,000$ to the kidnappers, as part of their "buy time" tactics. So every time you guys say /L We'll pay the 50k, you're obligated to do it, no mater did  you  /send id 50k or not.

Same criteria.

This.

Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Murdock on October 07, 2010, 02:43:22 pm
I think its ok to do so.
When you do /hail and then try to escape, you sort of "decieve" the cop and its smart, not retarted non-RP.
As long as the cop havn't yet approached to you and did "/me cuffs the guy", technicaly, your still on the lose.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: quincy69 on October 07, 2010, 02:57:05 pm
I hold gunpoint on people until they really  /gu, why? not because I can't RP, but because they can't RP.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: 9r2e5i3k on October 07, 2010, 03:15:34 pm
The point of this topic is to clear whether one is allowed to escape after claiming to have surrendered (not /gu) or not.
It's not allowed, that are the rules.

If you /gu'd you can't run. If you did anything else except that, you can. Simple.
As long as the cop havn't yet approached to you and did "/me cuffs the guy", technicaly, your still on the lose.
Wrong.

The rule is not you have to follow cops "after /gu", but you have to follow cops "after surrendering".

Surrendering is not only using /gu, you can also /hail or just say "I surrender".
/gu is only so you can shield yourself from cops' gunfire, but it limits role-play.

Where does the attitude of some come from, where asking something about a situation, is immediately moan?
The rule is clear and fair, yet people still try to question and bend it to their advantage. You can't escape after giving signs that you've surrendered to the cops. No exceptions.

Maybe not moaning in this case/topic, but the general subject of running after surrendering causes more or less moaning.

Its called tactics and common sense. Its like when FBI is negotiating with suspects who kidnapped someone, and FBI "agrees" on paying 50,000$ to the kidnappers, as part of their "buy time" tactics. So every time you guys say /L We'll pay the 50k, you're obligated to do it, no mater did  you  /send id 50k or not.
Common sense in kidnapping a fed or cop?? LOL

Kidnapping law enforcement officers (SAPD/FBI) and demanding money from the GOVERNMENT is just a mad flaw in criminals' logic. Especially on such daily basis as it was done (idk how it is now).

You (criminals in general) should kidnap people that are important to rich dudes, demand money and to not call the cops (like in the movies). If you call the cops for the ransom, it's just plain stupid/suicide, you're reducing your chances of getting the money successfully.

I think its ok to do so.
When you do /hail and then try to escape, you sort of "decieve" the cop and its smart, not retarted non-RP.
Smart my ass. More like wiseguy.

Later you'll moan about cops being DMers and money hungry for killing when you /hail. But cops can just explain themselves same way - they're smart because they don't let you deceive them.

example:
I hold gunpoint on people until they really  /gu, why? not because I can't RP, but because they can't RP.


Sure, you could limit the rules to be "only sign of surrender is /gu", but it will limit (like it's already expanded) role-play when surrendering.


And do Argonath's simple rules need "AT ALL/NO EXCEPTIONS" written next to every rule entry?
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Comrade on October 07, 2010, 06:41:42 pm
I RP (Or try to, they do not always want) with the cops and do /hail.
Why? Because this is an RP server. I do not want to be limited by a script. I want to have the possibility to escape if the cop hasn't cuffed me yet.
I once did /hail, cops came to me, I asked about my right, etc... you know. Stalled the time. Then my buddies showed up, and we escaped. Sometimes that doesn't work when the cops outnumber you, but it is still fun. Thats what I call RP.

It's much better than doing /hail and a cop comes to you saying "/GU OR i Sh0oT!!!!! 3! 2! 1!" *pew pew*.
As suspects we are entitled to know WHAT we did and we are entitled to know our rights.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Mikro on October 07, 2010, 06:50:15 pm
I always try to RP the cuffing etc. But once the suspect said /em succes or /me gets cuffed, I will ask him to /gu. Just for my safety.

I once did /hail, cops came to me, I asked about my right, etc... you know. Stalled the time. Then my buddies showed up, and we escaped. Sometimes that doesn't work when the cops outnumber you, but it is still fun. Thats what I call RP.
If that is possible within the current rules, I don't know. But it is atleast way better then when the suspect starts shooting at the cops after the /hail.  ;)
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: 9r2e5i3k on October 07, 2010, 06:56:16 pm
I want to have the possibility to escape if the cop hasn't cuffed me yet.
You don't. That are the rules.

If you declare to cops that you surrender - you follow them until jail.

/em succes
Bad command usage.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Mikro on October 07, 2010, 07:29:38 pm
You don't. That are the rules.

If you declare to cops that you surrender - you follow them until jail.
I know, but it is just an extra safety. The step the criminal has to attack/run after /gu is much bigger then when he did not. Just to prevent them from rulebreaking.

Bad command usage.
I know.. I know... I don't use it myself, but putted it there as an exemple, since some people will probably better understand what I mean, when they see that.  ;)
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: EminemRulez on October 07, 2010, 07:37:42 pm
You don't. That are the rules.

If you declare to cops that you surrender - you follow them until jail.
Bad command usage.
Even if you don't /giveup?
That makes no sense to me... A good cop would enforce a give up, never believe a criminal :)
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Gandalf on October 07, 2010, 07:50:03 pm
The rule "No escaping after surrender"was made long before the /gu script, and there for is valid for any type of surrendering.

Why ? Lets make an example that nobody who posts in this topic would ever do, only those bad guys who play and never post on forums...

After 40 minutes chasing a criminal, the cops have him cornered without a car and low HP. The criminal does /hail and starts to RP that he will go with the cops. However he is hurt so he needs a medic first. After the medic arrives and has healed him, he gets in to the cop car. When near the police station and a fresh supply of escape cars, the player jumps out, shouts "COPS SUCK" and another 40 minute chase begins. At the end the criminal does /gu but is shot by a cop who just wasted 2 hours and gets fined $1000 for the trouble. Of course the criminal will follow this up by moaning in main chat for another 30 minutes, while flaming the cop that killed him in PM.

NO ESCAPE AFTER SURRENDER. That is final, absloute, and not subject to change.
If SAPD tries to enforce the rule to /gu, they are going against server rules, and cops who enforce this will be copbanned. If a player does /hail or says "I give up" or surrenders in any other way and then rund, he faces a ban.

Clear enough ?
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: EminemRulez on October 07, 2010, 07:53:29 pm
Clear enough?
Pretty much, thank you.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Kenny. on October 07, 2010, 07:55:41 pm

NO ESCAPE AFTER SURRENDER. That is final, absloute, and not subject to change.
If SAPD tries to enforce the rule to /gu, they are going against server rules, and cops who enforce this will be copbanned. If a player does /hail or says "I give up" or surrenders in any other way and then rund, he faces a ban.

Clear enough ?

I dont understand? is this a rule thats already being enfoced or something that your planing to enforce especially..,
 "if SAPD tries to enforce the rule to /gu, they are going against server rules, and cops who enforce this will be copbanned." this part?
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: EminemRulez on October 07, 2010, 07:57:18 pm
Kenny, I believe he's saying that criminals do not have to /gu obligatory. They can just hail and say they give up...
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Gandalf on October 07, 2010, 08:19:47 pm
I dont understand? is this a rule thats already being enfoced or something that your planing to enforce especially..,
 "if SAPD tries to enforce the rule to /gu, they are going against server rules, and cops who enforce this will be copbanned." this part?
It would not be the first copban for this.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Malcolm on October 07, 2010, 08:21:45 pm
The rule "No escaping after surrender"was made long before the /gu script, and there for is valid for any type of surrendering.
Can't believe no one actually thought of this, or atleast mentioned it.  :lol:
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Altair_Carter on October 07, 2010, 08:40:30 pm
What is the exact point of this topic?
I only see moan here
And you haven't seen moan in the "Lets get things straight" topic? Oh wow.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: bamf on October 07, 2010, 08:43:53 pm
I kinda agree with this, if a suspect likes to /hail to surrender he can but then some will still just hands down and flee which is non rp tbh. - i kinda like it as it is, and it tells that he has surrendered and who cuffed him.

good point though.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Leon. on October 07, 2010, 08:50:27 pm
The rule "No escaping after surrender"was made long before the /gu script, and there for is valid for any type of surrendering.

Why ? Lets make an example that nobody who posts in this topic would ever do, only those bad guys who play and never post on forums...

After 40 minutes chasing a criminal, the cops have him cornered without a car and low HP. The criminal does /hail and starts to RP that he will go with the cops. However he is hurt so he needs a medic first. After the medic arrives and has healed him, he gets in to the cop car. When near the police station and a fresh supply of escape cars, the player jumps out, shouts "COPS SUCK" and another 40 minute chase begins. At the end the criminal does /gu but is shot by a cop who just wasted 2 hours and gets fined $1000 for the trouble. Of course the criminal will follow this up by moaning in main chat for another 30 minutes, while flaming the cop that killed him in PM.

NO ESCAPE AFTER SURRENDER. That is final, absloute, and not subject to change.
If SAPD tries to enforce the rule to /gu, they are going against server rules, and cops who enforce this will be copbanned. If a player does /hail or says "I give up" or surrenders in any other way and then rund, he faces a ban.

Clear enough ?
Wow, I never tried to escape if I surrendered without /gu because of shear dignity...never knew it was a rule.
Now I do, thank you for clearing it up.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Aksel on October 07, 2010, 08:56:24 pm
If you have /hail'ed and cop HAVEN'T done /me cuffs suspect, you can RUN!
IF you hailed, and the cop did /me cuffs suspect, you HAVE to give up as that is a sign of you giving up.

No.

/gu is just a command so you avoid getting killed. If you did /hail you gave up and have no way to go away.
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Kenny. on October 07, 2010, 09:06:49 pm
It would not be the first copban for this.

As an SAPD member i was always were under the impression "no /gu no deal" and alot of SAPD members do this....I never read or heard of this rule until today
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: [NP]Monte Montague on October 07, 2010, 09:10:51 pm
The rule "No escaping after surrender"was made long before the /gu script, and there for is valid for any type of surrendering.

Why ? Lets make an example that nobody who posts in this topic would ever do, only those bad guys who play and never post on forums...

After 40 minutes chasing a criminal, the cops have him cornered without a car and low HP. The criminal does /hail and starts to RP that he will go with the cops. However he is hurt so he needs a medic first. After the medic arrives and has healed him, he gets in to the cop car. When near the police station and a fresh supply of escape cars, the player jumps out, shouts "COPS SUCK" and another 40 minute chase begins. At the end the criminal does /gu but is shot by a cop who just wasted 2 hours and gets fined $1000 for the trouble. Of course the criminal will follow this up by moaning in main chat for another 30 minutes, while flaming the cop that killed him in PM.

NO ESCAPE AFTER SURRENDER. That is final, absloute, and not subject to change.
If SAPD tries to enforce the rule to /gu, they are going against server rules, and cops who enforce this will be copbanned. If a player does /hail or says "I give up" or surrenders in any other way and then rund, he faces a ban.

Clear enough ?



Lock
this thread please.

Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Vince on October 07, 2010, 09:12:29 pm
As an SAPD member i was always were under the impression "no /gu no deal" and alot of SAPD members do this....I never read or heard of this rule until today

Memo Update
San Andreas Police Department
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7059/2h5rwk8kopiera.png)


This is a small notice regarding suspects who have surrendered (using /gu script function) and suspects who have given up by means of /hail, "I surrender!" in chat, etc.

By words of the President, whenever any suspects gives up (whether it be using /gu or saying "I surrender") they must go with the officer.  If the suspect says that they give up they do NOT have the right to run or assault the cops for the sake of roleplay. That means if a suspect pulls a "/hail and then combat from the ass" it is not allowed by the rules, as stated by Gandalf.



Investigations - Every suspect has the right to an investigation except when there are no officers available to preform one. Also, if a suspect does not wish to have an investigation he has the right to be jailed immediately.





"Cops are required to operate with dignity and concern for the life of everyone, including that of a suspect. However that does not mean they have to accept being ignored or treated like dirt." - President Ronnel



Signed,
Deputy Chief Vice
learn to read...



Curse, why didn't you just post in the developers give examples topic? :trust:
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Kenny. on October 07, 2010, 09:17:53 pm
Vince maybe you didnt read clearly or i didnt explain myself..

What am trying to say is that MOST of SAPD do not know that (including myself) "forcing suspects to /gu" before we take them to jail "was/is against server rule" and can lead to "cop-ban"..

I never saw any rule like that or matterfact heard of it...correct me if am wrong
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Vince on October 07, 2010, 09:23:03 pm
I think my post made almost two months ago where any SAPD member could read it explained pretty much that, I guess not. :conf:
Title: Re: I SURRENDER. Or do I?
Post by: Gregersen on October 07, 2010, 10:23:08 pm
Topic locked on request of author
- Next time, do not use report function for that Curse, please.
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