Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Altair_Carter on November 22, 2010, 06:06:39 pm
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Since in topic about Hydras and Hunters was a lot of rant concerning new changes in SAPD, fellow admins/moderators threatened to lock the topic if it will continue going offtopic.
I thought locking such thread with really good topic was too harsh, so instead I'm opening the new one for discussions about SAPD reformation. And please, keep off the other topic if you want to rant about police work.
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I have an idea on cops, that most of us think about, but will never be used...
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/me reads the topic title carefully.
Yeah, I've just lost it...
In topic: It wasn't a big change... Just a wrong move, IMO.
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/me reads the topic title carefully.
Yeah, I've just lost it...
In topic: It wasn't a big change... Just a wrong move, IMO.
thought I would be first to make that post :(
I have suggested a child board where topics like such where its an open discussion for players to say 'Hey. What do you think about _____ in the server?' And where moaning (any form of it) is an automatic forum warning, strict governing like in Politics and Religion. SA:MP General has become the shitload for topics to have a discussion and it makes them seem like moaning topics.
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I have an idea on cops, that most of us think about, but will never be used...
Lets see... for SAPD you need an application so that can not be what you are taling about. :devroll:
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You just lost the game Altair.
That topic is not locked, and it will remain open, as mostly if not all moderators respect the procedures they must follow.
What is the purpose of this thread?
thought I would be first to make that post :(
I have suggested a child board where topics like such where its an open discussion for players to say 'Hey. What do you think about _____ in the server?' And where moaning (any form of it) is an automatic forum warning, strict governing like in Politics and Religion. SA:MP General has become the shitload for topics to have a discussion and it makes them seem like moaning topics.
Hate to go off topic (actually I do not even know what this topic is about), but politics and religion is not strictly governed, I can assure you of this.
Edit:
My topic is not for ranting.
People are welcome to go there and discuss changes, which include the hunter and Hydras.
Lets see... for SAPD you need an application so that can not be what you are taling about. :devroll:
No, I think he speaks of myself being made Chief :cop:
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You just lost the game Altair.
That topic is not locked, and it will remain open, as mostly if not all moderators respect the procedures they must follow.
Tttttttttttttttttttttttttard.
please read the opening post carefully
If you still can't fucking understand, in the previous topic most of people started argument around SAPD and Pancher told that if people wont stop, he'll close the topic, so I created this one that people will rant around SAPD here, and about overpowered vehicles there
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I heard rumors about the SAPD from the 2007 era.
They said that SAPD was once a highly esteemed organization.
They said that you had to be recommended in order to get in.
They said that cops had to work very hard to get a dark blue name.
They said that those who did commanded respect from the populace.
I believe that the SAPD is in dire need of a total reform.
During the Admin Restructure, the Owners wiped out half of the admin team. So far, it worked for the better despite the fact we were undermanned at first. The goal was achieved- a better Admin Team to serve the Community.
(In case you're wondering why the moaning about admins is still the same, the Restructure did not include a Moaner Purge)
I do not see why the same reforms cannot happen to SAPD and its leadership.
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Tttttttttttttttttttttttttard.
please read the opening post carefully
If you still can't f**king understand, in the previous topic most of people started argument around SAPD and Pancher told that if people wont stop, he'll close the topic, so I created this one that people will rant around SAPD here, and about overpowered vehicles there [/size]
Why you disrespecting me, I thought we where in the same community of great people, are you on some foreign exchange maybe, so you do not come under great people, or are you?, if so, prove it.
That topic is linked to SAPD , SWAT, FBI, ARPD, Over powered vehicles. I believe Pancher did not understand the topic. Although that wasn't a moaning topic.
Ranting = Moaning = not welcome in Argonath... so this thread = Encoring moaning?. :(
In response to JDC:
Vote for Curse as chief of police. :cool:
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I heard rumors about the SAPD from the 2007 era.
They said that SAPD was once a highly esteemed organization.
They said that you had to be recommended in order to get in.
They said that cops had to work very hard to get a dark blue name.
They said that those who did commanded respect from the populace.
I believe that the SAPD is in dire need of a total reform.
During the Admin Restructure, the Owners wiped out half of the admin team. So far, it worked for the better despite the fact we were undermanned at first. The goal was achieved- a better Admin Team to serve the Community.
(In case you're wondering why the moaning about admins is still the same, the Restructure did not include a Moaner Purge)
I do not see why the same reforms cannot happen to SAPD and its leadership.
I actually agree. Some bad decisions were made during the restructure that got rid of alot of good admins, but most eventually reapplied and we are better off now than we were before the restructure.
To be honest, I don't see why this hasn't happened yet to some degree or another. Hell, even taking over VCPD from inactive Chiefs has already helped MTA:VC and VCPD begin to prosper again, and all I did was update things and motivate a few people. Before when Ber wasn't even coming to Argonath once a year, MTA:VC and VCPD were completely dead and nearly wiped off the server listings. I'm not trying to sound conceited, but my point is that every once in a while things need a refresh to get the ball rolling. You can't expect one or two people to handle such a large job 24/7 for years on end and not get frustrated or tired of it sometimes.
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I heard rumors about the SAPD from the 2007 era.
They said that SAPD was once a highly esteemed organization.
They said that you had to be recommended in order to get in.
They said that cops had to work very hard to get a dark blue name.
They said that those who did commanded respect from the populace.
This.
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I heard rumors about the SAPD from the 2007 era.
1. They said that SAPD was once a highly esteemed organization.
2. They said that you had to be recommended in order to get in.
3. They said that cops had to work very hard to get a dark blue name.
4. They said that those who did commanded respect from the populace.
5. I believe that the SAPD is in dire need of a total reform.
1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. Yes
5. Yes
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Nobody takes the SAPD seriously.
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Nobody takes the SAPD seriously.
you don't take anything here seriously as long as it all goes your way :poke:
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you don't take anything here seriously as long as it all goes your way :poke:
Implying the SAPD goes my way?
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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Implying the SAPD goes my way?
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Please rephrase that, because I have no idea what the hell you just said lol
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you don't take anything here seriously as long as it all goes your way :poke:
Same policy as most SAPD command, aye? :D
But you could also say: Same with the rest of the server, aye? :D
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Please rephrase that, because I have no idea what the hell you just said lol
Successful troll is successful :roll:
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I'll have to criticize the SAPD openly here... let me point out some of the major problems. This is not merely my personal opinion, but is also a conclusion I arrived at from observing the facts and occurrences in the community.
Its condition is in general, deplorable.
I can compare the SAPD at present to the SA:MP Admin Team before the Admin Restructure of 2009- in dire need of total reform. Plagued by the weaknesses of its members and its own failure to enforce efficiency in general, it has encountered bigger problems despite the leaders' efforts to address them. In comparison, both SAPD and FBI get a lot of "hatemail" from the players. However, the FBI does not have members from ranks high and low storming out of the organization with a barrage of criticism and complaints about its weaknesses.
It has lost the respect of the general public.
While its communication and esteem from the public are on cordial terms in general, it is no longer highly esteemed as when compared to the previous time periods in Argonath. At this point in time, obtaining a dark blue name no longer makes you command respect from the players, as its general condition has deteriorated despite its growth.
Standards are low.
Another key problem of SAPD is its de facto (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/de_facto) enforcement of a "quantity over quality" policy. Even though some cadets may be kept waiting, almost anyone is allowed to join SAPD providing they have basic shooting and driving skills at the least. I am not proposing to make its standards as high as the FBI's (another key element of our professionalism), but instead the raising of the standards to a level adequate enough to return the organization to its former glory as a police department highly esteemed for its efficiency.
The purpose and direction is unclear
To start off, SWAT are supposed to be called out, not to be seen roaming the streets like regular patrol cops. The reason behind the basic regulation requiring SAPD Membership for invitation into SWAT, is dictated by common sense; SWAT is the Special Weapons And Tactics team of the Police Department, not its Endangerment and Nullification Death Squad that patrols the streets, in addition to heavily armed attack aircraft blasting 4-wheeled vehicles off the road for the simple reason "you were too risky to the cops". While this statement may sound like a a Moaner Statement, it has been an observed fact judging from the reactions of players throughout the server. Straight to the point, one can look at SAPD from a logical point of view and say, "what the hell is happening?".
Attitude Problems
As someone inside the FBI, from the moment I joined I have seen contempt, criticism, and hatred from many SAPD members- including SWAT Commanders, and especially SWAT members. SAPD is but one of several law enforcement organizations (the other official ones being FBI and the MGI), and has basically failed to produce excellent teamwork in general. While things may seem okay on the field, there has been the de facto "war" between FBI and SWAT (sometimes involving the rest of SAPD) due to the latter's weakness- in FBI, we are instructed not to escalate, start an argument, or declare war. Any efficient organization will not be possessing these problems.
Poor leadership and infighting between influential members
SAPD's leadership in general (addressed to Hank and Pancher, as CBF is on the sideline due to health reasons IRL) has failed to maintain a good condition within SAPD. If an organization is truly efficient in running itself, even people outside the SAPD (and occasionally, on the opposing side- hardcore criminals) will acknowledge that fact. The command staff has failed to enforce adequate standards in the organization and even unity amongst its members- a good example would be the fight between Dave and Hank / Vince that took place recently, among other events.
TL;DR: Proposal for a Complete SAPD Restructure and return to former glory.
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I mostly agree with JDC's post, but I don't agree with
its standards as high as the FBI's (another key element of our professionalism)
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Is there any like, way to become higher ranked police?
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@Altair:
If you've probably observed by now, FBI picks its members carefully to the point where some players are even scared of applying as most are denied. In short, this quality over quantity policy (not to mention excellent control by leaders) has helped FBI maintain itself as a professional organization.
@Rashid:
You can apply for the SAPD (http://www.arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum) or the FBI (http://www.fbi.argonathrpg.com/forum) once you've mastered the basics of copwork. :)
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@Altair:
If you've probably observed by now, FBI picks its members carefully to the point where some players are even scared of applying as most are denied. In short, this quality over quantity policy (not to mention excellent control by leaders) has helped FBI maintain itself as a professional organization.
Looking forward to observe your professionalism at it's fullest.
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Looking forward to observe your professionalism at it's fullest.
Altair, quit trolling him to take things off topic so you can flame FBI. If you don't agree with what he said, that's fine, but keep it to yourself unless it's relevant to this topic please. He is purely using it to make a point in comparison with how SAPD has become, and to be honest, regardless of how professional FBI is, he is right. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. SAPD has dramatically gone downhill over the years. I, myself, have tried to do things to fix it as well, only to be shot down. Countless other users have tried the same. SAPD not only needs to change, but it is very unwilling to do so at the same time. This is causing a huge issue which cannot be resolved unless something major forces it upon everyone to fix it.
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Altair, quit trolling him to take things off topic so you can flame FBI. If you don't agree with what he said, that's fine, but keep it to yourself unless it's relevant to this topic please. He is purely using it to make a point in comparison with how SAPD has become, and to be honest, regardless of how professional FBI is, he is right. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. SAPD has dramatically gone downhill over the years. I, myself, have tried to do things to fix it as well, only to be shot down. Countless other users have tried the same. SAPD not only needs to change, but it is very unwilling to do so at the same time. This is causing a huge issue which cannot be resolved unless something major forces it upon everyone to fix it.
Did I say something about FBI being lame group?
Just that their ego attitude about them being all professional irritates me.
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Did I say something about FBI being lame group?
Just that their ego attitude about them being all professional irritates me.
You know nothing.
JDC, I have noticed the same, from the day I joined FBI people in SAPD stopped talking to me, even those who where supposed to be my clan co-members (Not [NP]), before this they where "OMG CURSE, YOU SO HAWT". If it wasn't because of one of the most decent people of all of Argonath being Tovenaarke, asking for my help to run CMB, I'd of loved to stay in FBI.
They've shown nothing but respect especially to 'unofficial' groups, and the community. They're the professionals of Argonath RPG, you do not see them boasting about it often, you know nothing Altair.
Just like I said months ago, the only people who deserve a Dark blue Name, although I am fiercely opposed in general to a two tier cop system- FBI was the only exception, at that time there was a lot of hatred when FBI had only the Dark Blue name, people where incredibly rude.
It's a huge loss Celebron is not present any-more due to caring so much about the SAPD, Community that he put his own life in danger, for these people to come and ruin it.
I can only name a handful of good officers from the SAPD who I think would be well suited now to run the SAPD, along with having good support from the FBI and If we are lucky, CBF.
JC
Giac
SugarD
Dave
Yea, I ran out of names.
Although I think Vince is an ok person, I do not like how there is a total lack of public relations from SAPD. Hank has not either stepped up to do anything. And also, I always forget Pancher, who I do not have a clue what is doing either.
You guys if you're actually reading this, feel free to take the comments on board and act well.
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@Altair:
If you've probably observed by now, FBI picks its members carefully to the point where some players are even scared of applying as most are denied. In short, this quality over quantity policy (not to mention excellent control by leaders) has helped FBI maintain itself as a professional organization.
@Rashid:
You can apply for the SAPD (http://www.arpd.argonathrpg.com/forum) or the FBI (http://www.fbi.argonathrpg.com/forum) once you've mastered the basics of copwork. :)
Thanks, for letting me know..
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Successful troll is successful :roll:
I wasn't even trolling, I was comparing Pancher's statement with a completely nonsensical meme, they're closely related.
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Thanks Curse, I think. :conf:
Curse, and to any others out there who give a shit, I'm not out there to try and ruin anything for anyone. I've been with the SAPD for a while, and I know pretty much how "The Game" works.. and how it has worked in the past. In the past the SAPD did not have a lot of these problems a lot of you are bitching about, the reason being it was a lot more close together, and more of a family. Currently there are people bullshitting behind each others backs', disrespecting each other, and not acting as a family as we once were.
Previously the SAPD had a very active team and rules to enforce on its members - with these rules came advantages that were not to be abused. Such as the 100 uzi and dark blue name. That was an HONOR to have, and something you did not take lightly. I remember specifically when I first became an officer and Nicholas Angel (trix) handed me my badge and I had the honor of these advantages.. I did not think once nor abuse them at all. Yet being an SAPD (LSPD at the time) member comes with the fact that you have to respect the rules.
The major problems overall is that yes, there's a lot of shit, and making these rules and guidelines will hopefully bring it back to being better as it used to be. In the past the Chiefs made up the rules and there was no controversy and complaining about it - you dealt with it or you played as a freecop with a light blue name and no uzi to shoot at the rare fast cars on the server. Those who were SAPD were respected and knew what they were doing.
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The recent SAPD changes were part of the learning process of the acting command.
SAPD has had a long and extremely stable lead, that has recently changed, and such changes are always bound to give friction. The three main leaders, Vice, Pancher and Vince, all are long time members of Argonath, and all are guys that I trust completely. Similar some of those who created opposition are trusted members with a long history.
SAPD has the monopoly on official police work (note that FBI and MGI are NOT police organisations), and this gives them both a responsibility and a special status. The responsibility to provide careers within the police organization, and the special status to be as accessible as possible within the restricments of the server.
Some part of the current perceived problems of SAPD come from the restrictions developers put on them.
It has been frustrating SAPD that their law book was opposed, and that a number of restrictions were changed and looked different upon over time. The main problem was that as SAPD has always had leaders that are among the highest esteemed players, they received a lot of freedom as long as there was no signal to restrict them.
Another problem is that a number of groups have been formed by dissident SAPD players, and some new groups that emerged over time. Most of these groups are now elsewhere, but they started a trend of classifying the SAPD as inferior and pulled SAPD apart from being a team to becoming separate units that seem to be unable to cooperate. Usually the object has been to become an alternative to SAPD with equal (or higher) rights, and when they understood that this will not happen they turned against the server as a whole. Their attitude and spreading shit has caused a lot of damage to SAPD.
The recent rule changes were not an example of good planning, and I am sure that for future changes there will be a much better and more structured procedure. In the end, the SAPD command and Presidential office did not have a large difference, it is just a matter of making a distinction between rules that could give a disadvantage large enough for players to create yet a new attempt for " something better as SAPD" and rules that allow freedom, but do require SAPD to be of higher standards as untrained officers.
As for SWAT, even the trained SWAT operatives had decided playing SWAT was too bothersome, and nobody wanted to take the open commander position. Instead SAPD officers started to organize their own SWAT-like teams, causing a lot of resistance among the criminal groups.
If you read the new SWAT regulations, you will find that they have been written adressing the main concerns of groups, while giving SWAT a faster responce time and more possible activity. The former special teams which are now under SWAT are actually being restricted in their possibilities and action.
By this we adressed the concern of groups, while not removing the option of a heavy armed team appearing quickly in case criminals wish to take things over by force.
It is only natural that criminal groups will oppose any possible presence of heavy armed forces, but there always has to be a middle way.
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Did I say something about FBI being lame group?
Just that their ego attitude about them being all professional irritates me.
What does their professionalism have anything to do with this topic? If you don't like it, get over it. It's a good thing they take their job seriously. That prevents alot of issues of rogue agents going corrupt or starting wars. SAPD should be the same way...just like it used to be back in the day when things were going great.
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@all
"professional" is not a skill level. So stop treating the word like it would be a skill level.
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@all
"professional" is not a skill level. So stop treating the word like it would be a skill level.
I have a fair suggestion. How about we just drop the flaming, guilt-tripping, and blaming and just focus on the solutions. Just as I said in the other topic, we already know the problems. Let's fix them.
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Nobody takes the SAPD seriously.
I don't take you seriously
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I don't take you seriously
I have a fair suggestion. How about we just drop the flaming, guilt-tripping, and blaming and just focus on the solutions. Just as I said in the other topic, we already know the problems. Let's fix them.