Argonath RPG - A World of its own
Argonath RPG Community => Speakerbox => Topic started by: WaKa on June 20, 2011, 01:51:56 am
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Hey Argonath, I am making this topic because from what i've seen in the past few months, Permanent bans are becoming more and more common and in my opinion i don't think it should be this way. I would just like to point out that in this topic i am mainly talking about regulars here. Now as some of you know i'm permanently banned about something that i feel could be forgiven and forgotten as many others feel about their ban. But this isn't about me. Its about everyone and Argonath as a whole. The admins on Argonath are permanently banning more and more regulars for simple things. Now let me just say this, Argonath is a wonderful community, Its leaders are some of the finest. With that being said, Some of the rules here are being taken to seriously i know this is a community but it still has to be seen as a game. I see people in unban requests begging to play this server and i hate to see admins/leaders or moderators in some cases, Tell them to GTFO and stuff like that. We should be trying to get more players into this community i know its quality over quantity but everyone is human being and when people are begging saying they love Argonath and its players, They deserve another chance. Especially the veterans/regulars. I promise you, When an admin bans a regular, It don't matter if its for cyberbullying, Or if its for something as small as car ramming, They will learn right then and there when they see that blue and red ban text that they have messed up and that they will never do anything like that again. Now with new players that have been here less than 6 months or less than a year, I could see how maybe they should be perm banned. its kinda like they just come to our server and tried to take over so in my opinion yeah they should be perm banned. In a case like Rafael or Flash's, Its bad and that is definatly bannable i agree there, but don't you think permanently banning them is a little harsh? I mean its not like they murdered someone. These things can be forgotten you got to look at what he has done for the server and what he can and will do. And also same as with my case, Yeah one of my friends made accounts and sent me money, But I also said sorry and i admitted to it i think that should be it, Unban right there. I mean i'm sure if you asked Flash did he learn from his mistake he'll say yeah immediatly. Also the case with Nicky, I know she was okay with it but i think that is wrong. She thought Nathan was her friend but really he was just being her friend to prove a point? What is Argonath these days.. A player should be able to trust an admin before anyone else, I mean if they can't trust an admin who should they trust?
But there's not all bad things there are still wonderful players like Ziad, Dellstorm, Eugene, and others that are just truly good players and do so much for Argonath. But what i'm trying to say here is, Admins should lighten up and i'm not the only person (Banned) here that thinks that. Punishment is acceptable and always should be but the player should also be forgiven and looked at as a human being that makes mistakes and learns from them.
A permanent ban is like saying "f**k you, Leave." And with players that have been here for awhile and really truly loved this community and its players, That really hurts them and thats why i'm making this topic because i know alot of ppl banned feel this way but would rather not share it. Unbans should be like they used to be, The player makes a unban request, Manager looks at the topic, And see's that they learned from there mistake and unbans them depending on their actual rulebreak was. I do think that if it was something severe then they should be banned for idk 6 months tops i think over 6 months is ridiculous. I'm not asking for any immediate changes but i just think that managers should think twice before they permanently ban someone from the server. And with what happened with the guy from Israel, I think admins handled that perfectly THAT requires a perm ban. Life on Earth is short remember that.
Thank you so much,
WaKa.
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Excuse me sir. If you break the rules, you will suffer the consequences. For example, you have been been ban evading for over 2 months since your ban, but only caught recently by me on your Roscoe_Dash account. Do the crime. Do the time.
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So we should give SF_Sa another chance or two? He's a veteran and was perm denied..
Nathan basicly said why this is happening..
Oh and, name me a couple of regulars that are perm banned. Not including yourself.
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So we should give SF_Sa another chance or two? He's a veteran and was perm denied..
Nathan basicly said why this is happening..
Oh and, name me a couple of regulars that are perm banned. Not including yourself.
Exactly. People like Rafael haven't learned their lesson. You will be held accountable for every single action you do. And there is a certain limit till the HQ finally says you are done. You, Rafael, Flash, and many others have crossed that limit. That's why you were permanently banned.
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Now with new players that have been here less than 6 months or less than a year, I could see how maybe they should be perm banned. its kinda like they just come to our server and tried to take over so in my opinion yeah they should be perm banned.
Strongly disagree...
So what you're saying here is that new players who do not have much experience with the rules and how the server works should be permamently banned? Yet regulars who have a lot more experience of the rules as they have been playing for 6+ months (according to your definition) should get be treated more nicely and be given more chances?
That hardly sounds fair to me.
And new players trying to "take over"? LOL. New players are what make a community grow my friend...
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I still strongly think SF_Sa deserves another chance though :P
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I still strongly think SF_Sa deserves another chance though :P
No, he doesn't.
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Play by the rules and you'll be with us.
Get over the rules, and you'll be left behind.
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No, he doesn't.
My point exactly :)
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He's human being he makes mistakes. When he ban evades and multi accounts he doesn't look at it like we do, He looks at it as he wants to get back on Argonath and he'll do anything he can to. He doesn't try to harm Argonath in anyway.
Strongly disagree...
So what you're saying here is that new players who do not have much experience with the rules and how the server works should be permamently banned? Yet regulars who have a lot more experience of the rules as they have been playing for 6+ months (according to your definition) should get be treated more nicely and be given more chances?
That hardly sounds fair to me.
And new players trying to "take over"? LOL. New players are what make a community grow my friend...
Read up a little, I said ban new players that break the rules and KNOW the rules, And i also meant rulebreakers trying to take over not new players i don't know what i said but that's what i meant.
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He's human being he makes mistakes. When he ban evades and multi accounts he doesn't look at it like we do, He looks at it as he wants to get back on Argonath and he'll do anything he can to. He doesn't try to harm Argonath in anyway.Read up a little, I said ban new players that break the rules and KNOW the rules, And i also meant rulebreakers trying to take over not new players i don't know what i said but that's what i meant.
Are you bloody kidding me? We blocked a whole country for him..... And he done many shit, why should he be let back.... when he proved that he never changes?
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Play by the rules and you'll be with us.
Get over the rules, and you'll be left behind.
And stating an opinion here, That's the kind of attitude admins shouldn't have. People will break the rules eventually. Are you telling me you've car rammed somebody? You're saying you've NEVER broke a rule?
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He's human being he makes mistakes. When he ban evades and multi accounts he doesn't look at it like we do, He looks at it as he wants to get back on Argonath and he'll do anything he can to. He doesn't try to harm Argonath in anyway.Read up a little, I said ban new players that break the rules and KNOW the rules, And i also meant rulebreakers trying to take over not new players i don't know what i said but that's what i meant.
Why not ban the regulars/veterans that ALSO know the rules?
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Are you bloody kidding me? We blocked a whole country for him..... And he done many shit, why should he be let back.... when he proved that he never changes?
View him as a player not a rulebreaker for once.
Post Merge: June 20, 2011, 02:21:55 am
Why not ban the regulars/veterans that ALSO know the rules?
I agree with that, but i don't think they should be banned for as long as they have been lately. Like i said early, For most people in their right mind, When they sit there and think, "Wow i'm banned i can never enter the server again" They learn right there not to do it again. Like i said, MOST people
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And stating an opinion here, That's the kind of attitude admins shouldn't have. People will break the rules eventually. Are you telling me you've car rammed somebody? You're saying you've NEVER broke a rule?
Nope, not even a single time.. Never been kicked or in any way punished.. Your opinion is totally invalid then, because you don't consider every fact.. If we go by the fact that 'OH OK HE DID A MISTAKE HE WILL LEARN', (which we gave many shots to many people.. but all proved that we did mistake on letting them back..) we ain't gaining something.. And what the hell do you know from attitude? Who are you to judge our behavior?
Look at your self in the mirror, there's the truth.
View him as a player not a rulebreaker for once.
Even by player side, with all the shits he did, by blocking one whole country.. disabling the access to MANY people just because he is immature, is ENOUGH that I don't like him!
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I agree with that, but i don't think they should be banned for as long as they have been lately. Like i said early, For most people in their right mind, When they sit there and think, "Wow i'm banned i can never enter the server again" They learn right there not to do it again. Like i said, MOST people
After being banned 3-4 times, I think some would learn. But clearly, some don't. Perfect example is yourself. Even after being permabanned, you still come to ban evade.
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People learn. It'll take time but they learn. Quote from Sf_Sa on MSN: "I feel bad about hacking now on Argonath, i miss argonath"
And please don't bring that up about the other if you dont mind.
Nope, not even a single time.. Never been kicked or in any way punished.. Your opinion is totally invalid then, because you don't consider every fact.. If we go by the fact that 'OH OK HE DID A MISTAKE HE WILL LEARN', (which we gave many shots to many people.. but all proved that we did mistake on letting them back..) we ain't gaining something.. And what the hell do you know from attitude? Who are you to judge our behavior?
Look at your self in the mirror, there's the truth.
Even by player side, with all the shits he did, by blocking one whole country.. disabling the access to MANY people just because he is immature, is ENOUGH that I don't like him!
I'm WaKa is who i am. I can state an opinion all day, Rather you agree or not
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Truth hurts eh? right? ;). :hit:
So you think a quote from his words is enough to make us believe he truly deserves a chance? I re-state, he got a whole country blocked.. what about it. He also liked what he did, he also offered to learn Pancher how to make hacks :hah: :hah: :hah: :hah: :hah:
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LOL that is gotta be the funniest thing i've ever heard hahaa. But nah i never said he should be allowed back on the server i was just sayin nigga.
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In a case like Rafael or Flash's, Its bad and that is definatly bannable i agree there, but don't you think permanently banning them is a little harsh? I mean its not like they murdered someone.
I am sorry but whom are you to be making such judgment? You are not aware of the situation behind the managers decision to keep them both perm banned.
As well as, any permbans go through a system via managers who decide on the outcome, whether be that a long ban or a permban, only those in need of a perm ban who fail to be "rehabilitated" and follow the rules properly after previous bans receive permbans.
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So we should coddle rule-breaking regulars, and ban new players because they are taking over our server.
Okay, what the fuck is this?
If regular continues to rulebreak after being given all necessary warnings, then regular should get out of here as they have no reason to continue their rulebreaking.
Please lock this topic and move it to Trash.
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Your observation is not incorrect, recently we have indeed decided to become more strict on banning regulars who constantly break rules.
As you know Argonath is a community where people are given more than a single chance to show their positive side and learn from mistakes. Unfortunately over time this has resulted in regulars taking the possibility to get unbanned for granted. Taking advantage of any rule is considered not a problem, because a short time out is not a big deal, just wait until unban and then continue.
This means that the learning effect of unbanning regulars seems to be lost. As a result we have to use more strong punishments to ensure that both new and regular players understand that constantly breaking rules does mean they need to find a new community.
We are not happy to do this, as we hate to see our friends thrown out and having to deny them access. However it is needed to make people understand that they should stop their shit and start following the rules instead of taking every shortcut they can find.
Regulars will always be punished strongly, as becoming a regular means that you know what you are doing when breaking a rule.
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All those individuals who have been permanently denied deserves it. If you cannot f**king obey the rules without breaking them all the f**king time, doing the same shit like a deja vu. Then you don't even deserve to be here. Quit playing as y'all innocent, since you're not.
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If SF_Sa wants to stop hacking and come back to Argonath, then why does he persist to ban evade till this day?
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Okay this can be locked i don't really care everybody here is being bitchy anyway. Nobody looks at it from the view that i do so just whatever.
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Okay this can be locked i don't really care everybody here is being bad girly anyway. Nobody looks at it from the view that i do so just whatever.
Well, what the fuck do you expect? This dude comes into our server hacking, quite a few times and you want us to allow him back? YOU should look at it from a different view, not us.
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I don't know why people are just using SF_Sa as an example...try to generalise it more, considering the topic refers to lots of people, not just one. You all think that you have made your point by pointing out them...when the topic says "more"...not "SF_Sa". Get my point?
I actually tend to agree with WaKa...my brother was accused of hacking, and was given the threat of a permanent ban. The thing is, up to this day a lot of the admin team still think he hacked...he actually didn't.
If he was given a permanent ban (as he might have done if it happened now, instead of then) I wouldn't be here right now, and neither would he. That is an example of how mistakes have been made.
I mean, people like SF_Sa have kind of proven they deserve a perm ban, but others in the server, unnoticed, may not actually deserve one. Rafael...yeah...he may deserve one...but Flash was actually a nice guy unless he was around Rafael. If you'd have put another more easily led player with Rafael, the same thing could have happened to them.
I'm not condoning anyone's actions, but there is more to things than actually meets the eye.
Peace.
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He's not doing anything else but stating the fact that permanent-bans have become more by the amount (including that he DOES NOT MEAN HIMSELF IN GENERAL) and people don't have anything else to do than to directly attack him by taunting him his denial.That's a shameful, impolite and inappropriate action in this community.Let's remember that this was the reason why regulars cannot post on unban requests anymore - Being impolite on UBR's.
Because this is the first time I hear about your banevading, Waka, I suppose I'll need to talk to you personally aswell. :neutral:
EDIT : SF_Sa , Rafael and WaKa cannot be compared at all to eachother.They are three different types of people.
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He's not doing anything else but stating the fact that permanent-bans have become more by the amount (including that he DOES NOT MEAN HIMSELF IN GENERAL) and people don't have anything else to do than to directly attack him by taunting him his denial.That's a shameful, impolite and inappropriate action in this community.Let's remember that this was the reason why regulars cannot post on unban requests anymore - Being impolite on UBR's.
Because this is the first time I hear about your banevading, Waka, I suppose I'll need to talk to you personally aswell. :neutral:
EDIT : SF_Sa , Rafael and WaKa cannot be compared at all to eachother.They are three different types of people.
+1
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Behind every permanently denied person is a story, and often the story here is just a fraction of what happened. Most people who are denied permanently did not just make one small mistake, but repeated their mistakes after every unban. Most of them I have personal contact with, and I have tried to get in to their heads to ensure they would understand and try to avoid.
If they think of that as a way to be unbanned every time, they will get disappointed once they reach the limit.
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Quote from Sf_Sa on MSN: "I feel bad about hacking now on Argonath, i miss argonath"
I thought that it was: ''My name is Sf_Sa I will F**k all Argonath this is to all who play Argonath RPG''
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If SF_Sa wants to stop hacking and come back to Argonath, then why does he persist to ban evade till this day?
Because he can't hold what he's saying. He says he want to become a normal player and playing by the rules, but keeps on doing the same thing over and over again when i dont know how many people has been trying to tell him that it wont work. He got ALOT of people banned because of he's immature and juvenile behaviour so why should he even be unbanned?
Okay this can be locked i don't really care everybody here is being bad girly anyway. Nobody looks at it from the view that i do so just whatever.
If he would have stopped doing what he has been doing and actually started to show any interest to become clean and follow the rules, i bet he could have a last chance... But he already screwed it when he got routeblocked.
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I don't really like perm bans at all. It's pretty harsh, especially if you're good friends and well known within the community. I can understand long bans but perm bans go pretty far.
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I don't really like perm bans at all. It's pretty harsh, especially if you're good friends and well known within the community. I can understand long bans but perm bans go pretty far.
It depends how you see it. A good friend within the community wouldn't have gotten himself to that position so he's facing the permanent ban.
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Well tempban extension will solve this..
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Well tempban extension will solve this..
And can you please explain how a tempban can take over for a perm ban?
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Exactly. People like Rafael haven't learned their lesson. You will be held accountable for every single action you do. And there is a certain limit till the HQ finally says you are done. You, Rafael, Flash, and many others have crossed that limit. That's why you were permanently banned.
What are you saying dude? " Flash, and many others have crossed that limit. " I just got banned twice for my behavior, the last one was in September, now again, so twice is crossing the limit?
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Lol, Flash bro, they comparing us to SF_Sa, and this is the people who we call friends...
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What are you saying dude? " Flash, and many others have crossed that limit. " I just got banned twice for my behavior, the last one was in September, now again, so twice is crossing the limit?
Yes. Once should have been enough for you to control yourself.
Lol, Flash bro, they comparing us to SF_Sa, and this is the people who we call friends...
Nobody is comparing you two to SF_Sa. He crossed his limit with the hacking and causing general server chaos while you two crossed the limit with your behavior. I would understand if this was your first time, but it isn't.
Let me bring another example. Mike_Hawk. Most know him as the funny guy with a total bad attitude. Sure he has been banned a few times before, but he crossed his limit with the threatening a member of server. Thus, he received a community ban and was permanently exiled from the server.
Thus, everyone should be aware of this limit/line. Once you cross it, you're done.
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Rafael, I see why you had your permanent ban.
Flash, having seen the unban request, and read the log...I'm not sure to be honest, but from personal experience I always thought you were a cool guy...I guess it was Rafael's influence.
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Personally I think Rafael and Flash are both still pretty cool guys.
They would not demolish their reputation by Ban-evading etc, they have more respect for themselves.
How DARE you compare people like SF_Sa to Flash and Rafael...
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Rafael, I see why you had your permanent ban.
Flash, having seen the unban request, and read the log...I'm not sure to be honest, but from personal experience I always thought you were a cool guy...I guess it was Rafael's influence.
I influenced Flash? So you are implying he does not have control of himself and is enough dumb to do whatever the other person says? - You are completely wrong my friend.
Ro the rest of the post, by the fact that I've never seen you in my entire time in Argonath, I'll just let it pass, so to avoid a useless argument.
Personally I think Rafael and Flash are both still pretty cool guys.
They would not demolish their reputation by Ban-evading etc, they have more respect for themselves.
How DARE you compare people like SF_Sa to Flash and Rafael...
Judging people without right knowledge about the person. Who cares, let them compare lol.
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I influenced Flash? So you are implying he does not have control of himself and is enough dumb to do whatever the other person says? - You are completely wrong my friend.
I'm implying he trusted you and as your friend, was pressurised into doing something he wouldn't normally do ;)
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So what, Rafael and Flash seem cool what's the big deal? I'm sure they learned from their mistakes its not like they're criminals. Btw Dr Pepper i agree with you Perm ban's are wayy to far i mean serious i think a few months ban would teach anybody their lesson.
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Nope, not even a single time..
That is physically impossible, just like it is not possible to follow every single law in real life.
Never been kicked or in any way punished..
I've never been arrested, doesn't mean I haven't broken the law. :cop:
And can you please explain how a tempban can take over for a perm ban?
Well, a tempban is a short ban not a long kick.
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And can you please explain how a tempban can take over for a perm ban?
Well instead of giving a full ban, you can give a tempban (Example: 1-6 hours).
The banned dude won't finish in the unban request list, instead of being there he is going to think what he's done wrong and how to fix it (for those 1-6 hours).
So when you're not on the unban request list, you won't be afraid of Cutter to push his favourite button. :lol:
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Well instead of giving a full ban, you can give a tempban (Example: 1-6 hours).
The banned dude won't finish in the unban request list, instead of being there he is going to think what he's done wrong and how to fix it (for those 1-6 hours).
So when you're not on the unban request list, you won't be afraid of Cutter to push his favourite button. :lol:
Player's get perm-banned if they well.... start rule-breaking again after a week ban,or a month ban,or even a 3 month ban.How could they learn in 6 hours what they were'nt able to understand in...weeks or probably months?
You will probably see recurring unban requests from certain players.
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Guys and girls, believe it or not, unbans have actually become much more common after perm-bans than they used to be. It's not so much of an issue with bans as it is with players just not respecting the community and it's rules.
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Argonath should not loosen its regulations on permbans, as a matter of fact I believe the administration should make them even tighter... the reason for this is that players have been taking the chance for an unban for granted.
When I came here to Argonath, the written rule was that players only have one chance for an unban, yet by now I've seen many people with at least 5 or more unbans.
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Argonath should not loosen its regulations on permbans, as a matter of fact I believe the administration should make them even tighter... the reason for this is that players have been taking the chance for an unban for granted.
When I came here to Argonath, the written rule was that players only have one chance for an unban, yet by now I've seen many people with at least 5 or more unbans.
Same here. The most prominent, working system I witnessed while I was here was the three-strikes rule. First time could be something small like your brother or sister using your account and DM'ing, second time around could be your own mistake of getting angry, etc., but once you've hit your third, it's obvious you are behind all of the mistakes and shouldn't be allowed back, hence permanent denial, or depending on severity, a very extensive ban for a long period of time.
Things now are very lenient, and it's pretty bad. Prior to my own ban, (which yes, I believe was fair and I'm not here to contradict, agree, disagree, or discuss that), I posted a topic in the admin forum about how the administration needs to work harder to make bans stick. Needless to say I'm not going to leak any info in it, but it basically discussed how things need to be locked down a bit more here, and how, if we are going to ban someone, we have to make sure it's not only valid and worth a ban, but that it's going to stay.
A ban is just that...a ban. By definition, it means a user will never be allowed back. If we only want to remove them for a period of time and allow them back later, we have kick and tempban for that exact reason. Unfortunately on the flip side of things, users have also either lost all respect for the admins, or they kiss their butts in order to avoid punishment, which is causing issues on every side of the administration system. Even some admins have lost hope because they are flamed and every time they ban a user for it, they are unbanned and come back to do it again. This slides down the totem pole to standard users who are then affected by the admin's frustration, or in some cases, the admin's lack of action because they have given up on dealing with such scenarios. In my honest opinion, work needs to be done on both sides in order to give these issues the boot one, final time.
Like I've been saying for a long time, this community needs to unite and stay united so we can bring Argo to it's peak, because I believe the peak it's had will not be it's last point of amazing glory. We showed recently that it's possible if we work together...now we just have to keep things that way. :)
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Actually there has been a dramatic decrease in the playerbase over the past year and i think that is due to the increase in perm bans and the admin's attitudes here lately.
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Actually there has been a dramatic decrease in the playerbase over the past year and i think that is due to the increase in perm bans and the admin's attitudes here lately.
The dramatic decrease in players in SA:MP has been due to player frustration. There was a point not that long ago where almost all the admins had given up on doing their job because they too were frustrated at the situation, and due to some miscommunication regarding recruiting and managing the admins, SA:MP Managers and higher were at a standstill trying to figure out how to resolve things, and as we all know, it's next to impossible for 2-3 Managers to cover an entire server by themselves, so rulebreaking and ban evading became very common for that period of time, causing players to become very angry at the lack of administrating, and hence they left out of frustration.
(Phew! That was a long-*** sentence!)
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Admins are in fact do not care a lot what punishment they do give... Almost all forgot about tempban function, jailing players for more then 60 seconds (1 minute), muting for even 600 seconds, etc...
This things I wanted to clear out with admins and moderators, but had no time yet to get to it... As in the past every moderator had a talk to me before being promoted...
There will be admins meeting, where the Argonath admining style should be back... Right now its just a punishment group... When admins team supposes to be the helping group...
This witch hunting will be stopped...
This is also another reason why are not promoted new moderators... As I have to set the correct way the current admins team... After that I will pick up some guys for test which will all pass through my instructions...
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The dramatic decrease in players in SA:MP has been due to player frustration.
Well, SA:MP is losing popularity these days as well with all these other online games being released. I'm pretty sure thats the main reason SA:MP in general is decreasing in numbers.
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Admins are in fact do not care a lot what punishment they do give... Almost all forgot about tempban function, jailing players for more then 60 seconds (1 minute), muting for even 600 seconds, etc...
This things I wanted to clear out with admins and moderators, but had no time yet to get to it... As in the past every moderator had a talk to me before being promoted...
There will be admins meeting, where the Argonath admining style should be back... Right now its just a punishment group... When admins team supposes to be the helping group...
This witch hunting will be stopped...
This is also another reason why are not promoted new moderators... As I have to set the correct way the current admins team... After that I will pick up some guys for test which will all pass through my instructions...
Sounds like a great idea, to be honest.
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Well, SA:MP is losing popularity these days as well with all these other online games being released. I'm pretty sure thats the main reason SA:MP in general is decreasing in numbers.
Yes, but Argo's server is losing them excessively fast. There are still SA:MP servers that max out around 500 players that are still going strong at 300+. Obviously that isn't Argo, but it gives you the general idea. Argo SA:MP shouldn't be getting as dead as it has been lately.
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Yes, but Argo's server is losing them excessively fast. There are still SA:MP servers that max out around 500 players that are still going strong at 300+. Obviously that isn't Argo, but it gives you the general idea. Argo SA:MP shouldn't be getting as dead as it has been lately.
Well atleast Stunt server is increasing activity :D But yes, as Aragorn said, there should be a administration meeting.
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Well atleast Stunt server is increasing activity :D But yes, as Aragorn said, there should be a administration meeting.
That's great news! :)
And yes, I agree.
@Aragorn: Maybe my massive admin meeting topic in the admin forum might help you prepare for it. The rosters are likely outdated now, but it's a start :)
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Like, argonath just needs a refresh Breeze, especially the administration, they are threatening and getting too out of order with there attitude and taking actions way to kick,, lately this server has shown me for the 2 years I've been here the most disrespectful administrative team on SAMP, I hope Aragorn has a meeting with these admins and get them back in order and back on track!
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Like, argonath just needs a refresh Breeze, especially the administration, they are threatening and getting too out of order with there attitude and taking actions way to kick,, lately this server has shown me for the 2 years I've been here the most disrespectful administrative team on SAMP, I hope Aragorn has a meeting with these admins and get them back in order and back on track!
It's not just the admins, it's the players too. Please don't play the blame game unless you have facts to back it up. They aren't the only ones with the attitude problems. Remember, admins are still regular players. They have just been picked to help keep order in the server and help new players out, something every player should be able to do, and should do every day.
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To be ready for admins meeting I need to collect all info about admins activity, each of them, reports, logs... As usually, actually... But I have no time to collect all this, and Xcasio is busy as well...
That is why there is no yet admins meeting...
However I was already trying to take admins attention by posting some hints in my signature... Banana for 600 seconds or permbans for farts should be stopped... I was pointing the same on admins chat in game during my short visits... But lack of my activity probably made it useless...
Anyways... Permbans are used in extra cases or cheat... Cheating can be not only using cheats... Also abusing script commands to get advantage... This classified as cheating... Extra cases: constant disrespect/flame/other shit/flood/spam/scam... If player constantly does it, if all what he brings to server - constant negative, moaning, shitting, provoking - he can be easily permbanned... I pointed the CONSTANT word as it is the main in this cases what leads to permban... If guy is new, if guy is just pissed off on some accident - thats hardly a tempban... Banana for 30 seconds is enough...
But some players can be pissed off even with banana for 30 seconds and instead of calming down develope things in a negative direction even more... More longer he will continue shitting about admins and banana in 30 seconds - more chances admin will ban him... 1 hour of ban is enough... If player noticed in constant shit about everything, forums, server, sites or communities of clans or groups - permban is the one thing he will get...
And there is no shit to cry about...
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I gotta agree with you there. The actions being taken are a bit overboard, so I can see how it goes both ways. If activity with the admins is fixed, and then they are properly trained as you said, I think there may be a chance to have them help change the community's negative views into positive ones, but it will definitely take some dedication given how bad things have gotten at this point.
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Like, argonath just needs a refresh Breeze, especially the administration, they are threatening and getting too out of order with there attitude and taking actions way to kick,, lately this server has shown me for the 2 years I've been here the most disrespectful administrative team on SAMP, I hope Aragorn has a meeting with these admins and get them back in order and back on track!
In your case it's simple: Treat others how you wanted to be treated and not crying to the higher-ups about every single dislike.
*snipped*
I certainly cannot wait till these meetings to hear your philosophy in taking care of this job and which actions should be taken. Though I must say that punishments issued by me have been taken account for by me. In the event of false-accusation, I ALWAYS apologize to the defendant for the mistake made by me in public chat in order to not hurt that person's reputation.
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To be ready for admins meeting I need to collect all info about admins activity, each of them, reports, logs... As usually, actually... But I have no time to collect all this, and Xcasio is busy as well...
That is why there is no yet admins meeting...
However I was already trying to take admins attention by posting some hints in my signature... Banana for 600 seconds or permbans for farts should be stopped... I was pointing the same on admins chat in game during my short visits... But lack of my activity probably made it useless...
Anyways... Permbans are used in extra cases or cheat... Cheating can be not only using cheats... Also abusing script commands to get advantage... This classified as cheating... Extra cases: constant disrespect/flame/other shit/flood/spam/scam... If player constantly does it, if all what he brings to server - constant negative, moaning, shitting, provoking - he can be easily permbanned... I pointed the CONSTANT word as it is the main in this cases what leads to permban... If guy is new, if guy is just pissed off on some accident - thats hardly a tempban... Banana for 30 seconds is enough...
But some players can be pissed off even with banana for 30 seconds and instead of calming down develope things in a negative direction even more... More longer he will continue shitting about admins and banana in 30 seconds - more chances admin will ban him... 1 hour of ban is enough... If player noticed in constant shit about everything, forums, server, sites or communities of clans or groups - permban is the one thing he will get...
And there is no shit to cry about...
It's a shame your admin team has been doing the opposite for the last 3 years..
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There will be admins meeting, where the Argonath admining style should be back... Right now its just a punishment group... When admins team supposes to be the helping group...
Excellent, excellent quote.
Glad the absolute root of the issue will be addressed, and sorted for good.
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Excellent, excellent quote.
Glad the absolute root of the issue will be addressed, and sorted for good.
Agreed 100%.
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It's not just the admins, it's the players too. Please don't play the blame game unless you have facts to back it up. They aren't the only ones with the attitude problems. Remember, admins are still regular players. They have just been picked to help keep order in the server and help new players out, something every player should be able to do, and should do every day.
Well maybe admins should be trained, because I've seen most of them who can't even be on top of there game!
To be ready for admins meeting I need to collect all info about admins activity, each of them, reports, logs... As usually, actually... But I have no time to collect all this, and Xcasio is busy as well...
That is why there is no yet admins meeting...
However I was already trying to take admins attention by posting some hints in my signature... Banana for 600 seconds or permbans for farts should be stopped... I was pointing the same on admins chat in game during my short visits... But lack of my activity probably made it useless...
Anyways... Permbans are used in extra cases or cheat... Cheating can be not only using cheats... Also abusing script commands to get advantage... This classified as cheating... Extra cases: constant disrespect/flame/other shit/flood/spam/scam... If player constantly does it, if all what he brings to server - constant negative, moaning, shitting, provoking - he can be easily permbanned... I pointed the CONSTANT word as it is the main in this cases what leads to permban... If guy is new, if guy is just pissed off on some accident - thats hardly a tempban... Banana for 30 seconds is enough...
But some players can be pissed off even with banana for 30 seconds and instead of calming down develope things in a negative direction even more... More longer he will continue shitting about admins and banana in 30 seconds - more chances admin will ban him... 1 hour of ban is enough... If player noticed in constant shit about everything, forums, server, sites or communities of clans or groups - permban is the one thing he will get...
And there is no shit to cry about...
Im glad this was stated, these admins just punish, they don't help, If a new player came on and just started to Cop Bait and a admin bans him, would he know any better? No because they don't advice him of anything, that's the shame of the admin team on Argonath RPG Today!
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As alot of you are saying the problems is not with the admin but the players too however lets separate the two groups and see what their jobs are.
Player: They are here to have fun sometimes yes they get mad flame or do things which are wrong. This is where the admin comes in and keeeps the peace in the server. See the admin job is sort of like profession that is their job. When certain admin is on his main account he should be tolereant, patient and professional.
Alot of the times admins are in challenege to give out punishment to players than actual help out the player into making the right choices. He could spend a little time banana the guy and talk him down rather than out right ban them or kick which will result into more and more anger from the player side. The admin team are supposed to be trained yes they are human but if the admin loose the cool who is supposed to be more mature than the average player what do you think a player will do....
This is why i wonder do the admin even receive some sort of training into how to handle situation, are some of them even experienced or patient? Do they know they should stay professional in their main admin account? I see admin who rather ban the player with reasons ending "explain in unban request" than take few minutes and get to the bottom of the story. This all tough act "any trolling and ban" will just lead to a complex situation and does not solve anything.
If a suspect was on a roof and was about to suicide the negogiater usually talks them down rather than shoot him down. This is excatly what happens alot in the server, some admin love its what they live for to give out punishment - i bet you thats what keeps them coming to the server to make a players life miserable. Now before you start judging me i do not really attempt to get involved with admins, i even avoid roleplaying with admins at all cost because it may lead to me being in trouble. Whenever i receive a punishment like a banana or kick or even tempban i just come back and carry on my business for i have more experience and mature than average players & know arguing will just dig me a hole.
To solve alot of mis behaviour from server admin first need to be trained on how to handle things, first thing is to be calm and collective. A classic example is the parents who always beat their children when they make mistakes, the child will eventually become immune to the beatings and he will never be the same. The same situation applies here, admin awlays outrigh ban players alot of the time they become immune to banning and make unban request after unban request, this eventually leads to a perm ban or even worse. So lets not create monsters in this community!!
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As alot of you are saying the problems is not with the admin but the players too however lets separate the two groups and see what their jobs are.
Player: They are here to have fun sometimes yes they get mad flame or do things which are wrong. This is where the admin comes in and keeeps the peace in the server. See the admin job is sort of like profession that is their job. When certain admin is on his main account he should be tolereant, patient and professional.
Alot of the times admins are in challenege to give out punishment to players than actual help out the player into making the right choices. He could spend a little time banana the guy and talk him down rather than out right ban them or kick which will result into more and more anger from the player side. The admin team are supposed to be trained yes they are human but if the admin loose the cool who is supposed to be more mature than the average player what do you think a player will do....
This is why i wonder do the admin even receive some sort of training into how to handle situation, are some of them even experienced or patient? Do they know they should stay professional in their main admin account? I see admin who rather ban the player with reasons ending "explain in unban request" than take few minutes and get to the bottom of the story. This all tough act "any trolling and ban" will just lead to a complex situation and does not solve anything.
If a suspect was on a roof and was about to suicide the negogiater usually talks them down rather than shoot him down. This is excatly what happens alot in the server, some admin love its what they live for to give out punishment - i bet you thats what keeps them coming to the server to make a players life miserable. Now before you start judging me i do not really attempt to get involved with admins, i even avoid roleplaying with admins at all cost because it may lead to me being in trouble. Whenever i receive a punishment like a banana or kick or even tempban i just come back and carry on my business for i have more experience and mature than average players & know arguing will just dig me a hole.
To solve alot of mis behaviour from server admin first need to be trained on how to handle things, first thing is to be calm and collective. A classic example is the parents who always beat their children when they make mistakes, the child will eventually become immune to the beatings and he will never be the same. The same situation applies here, admin awlays outrigh ban players alot of the time they become immune to banning and make unban request after unban request, this eventually leads to a perm ban or even worse. So lets not create monsters in this community!!
Well that's the thing...admins and players should be no different. Everyone should be professional, calm, and courteous to others regardless if they are an admin or not. Admins are still regular players. They just have special rights granted to them to help keep the peace. They are no different than anyone else.
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Well that's the thing...admins and players should be no different. Everyone should be professional, calm, and courteous to others regardless if they are an admin or not. Admins are still regular players. They just have special rights granted to them to help keep the peace. They are no different than anyone else.
Something i always found ironic is the admins playing the victim role when they have such power in the server. They say they are doing what seems to be a hard job and its very stressing claiming all sorts of things done to them by the players attitude and behaviour. Their claims include no time for them enjoy playing or roleplaying for that matter.
To be honest a player applies to become part of the admin team, which means they should be trained or well mentally be prepaerd to baby sit younger players than them who will make alot of mistakes. If admin becomes very strees and cannot handle things he is unfit to serve and should resign not stil hold a position of power and tempban players for things like "shut up"....
if you think am just blabbering check the unban request of last 10 pages you will atleast find 10 players banned for almost weeks where a tempban or kick was sufficient enough...i mean am not a judge or anything but whats logic can be seen & does not need a degree in university...
ps: it seems we have detroited away from the topic so lets forget this admin subject & really discuss about the problems with perm ban although perm bans are usually based on how often a player was previously banned. Alot of the time the previous bans were not neccasary and those players could stil be in the community.
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Something i always found ironic is the admins playing the victim role when they have such power in the server. They say they are doing what seems to be a hard job and its very stressing claiming all sorts of things done to them by the players attitude and behaviour. Their claims include no time for them enjoy playing or roleplaying for that matter.
To be honest a player applies to become part of the admin team, which means they should be trained or well mentally be prepaerd to baby sit younger players than them who will make alot of mistakes. If admin becomes very strees and cannot handle things he is unfit to serve and should resign not stil hold a position of power and tempban players for things like "shut up"....
if you think am just blabbering check the unban request of last 10 pages you will atleast find 10 players banned for almost weeks where a tempban or kick was sufficient enough...i mean am not a judge or anything but whats logic can be seen & does not need a degree in oxford.
Yes, admins should be prepared, but it's the entire servers' attitudes that lead to these issues. ALL players should be helpful and courteous...especially those that already know the rules. They should be assisting new players and teaching them how to play here BEFORE the admins should ever have to step in. Admins are a last line of defense, not a first line.
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Kenny I would like you not to turn topic into "lets wave a shit on admins"...
Like you or not admins have a really difficult work... And you all (players) do not even count them equal... For you all they are slaves who must run on the first fart from your side...
That is not true... And I do not press on admins cos the work they do not everyone can even handle... For example you for sure will not handle it, cos you think its easy and all those admins words about difficulties just a playing victim...
Admin checkes report and if he is not witnessing the rule break he leaves player alone... But that does not mean the reporter will leave admin alone... That asshole can start shitting admins team for doing nothing, for being ignorant for disrespecting players for bad activity, etc...
And that is not ONE moaner... Almost all who want a "death" to nearest player (newbie or veteran) all report to admins and then stalk admin all the time while the ban comes on his own ass or the reported player was witnessed by admin... In some cases this stalking is PERMANENT... Yeah yeah we have such cases also...
So there is no way you all can start shitting about admins work... We have a great team... Just this team needs to set correct limits of actions... Mostly with the new guys...
If the situationwould be THAT BAD as you are trying to describe here admins would be already removed/changed...
I agree with the incorrect timing of bans/bananas/adminjail/etc... But I am not agree with the admins being total idiots power hungry kiddies...
In most cases I notice admins team goes harsh when there is attack on Argonath servers/forums... But that is just dictated by normal wish to protect the server more...
Problem between admin and player 99% cases starts from player...
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Well said RON :)
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Ron i am honestly suprised that you will interpret my criticism into "wave to shit on admins". If am not wrong few post up you said you wanted to re-organise the admin team and make meeting between your members.
What i did was give you feedback as a regular player into what i see on daily basis. when an organisation is under the process of reforming they usual collect feedback from their customers and attempt to tackle those issues mentioned...
Few things i mentioned in my post are actual facts which i can provide refreences to if neccassry. As a leader who is trying to reorganise you out of all should welcome criticism because in my previous post i gave you few issues that could be highlighted in the admin meeting.
At the end of the day you are a leader you can choose to ignore feedback from a mature person who is logical and reasonable and carry on living in the wrold where everything is perfect or you can actually convey my message back to the HQ team and do something about it, not take my words out of context and see it as "shitting on admins". I trust your judgement & respect your outcome.
How would you know "for sure" i cant do admin job, you are just under estimating the players ability, however i believe am mentally prepered for it but i pyhsically do not want to hold such responsbilities. let me wrap it up in simple line - I give you the point of view of a player while you give me the viewpoint of a leader, this is called a dialogue.
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Ron i am honestly suprised that you will interpret my criticism into "wave to shit on admins". If am not wrong few post up you said you wanted to re-organise the admin team and make meeting between your members.
What i did was give you feedback as a regular player into what i see on daily basis. when an organisation is under the process of reforming they usual collect feedback from their customers and attempt to tackle those issues mentioned...
Few things i mentioned in my post are actual facts which i can provide refreences to if neccassry. As a leader who is trying to reorganise you out of all should welcome criticism because in my previous post i gave you few issues that could be highlighted in the admin meeting.
At the end of the day you are a leader you can choose to ignore feedback from a mature person who is logical and reasonable and carry on living in the wrold where everything is perfect or you can actually convey my message back to the HQ team and do something about it, not take my words out of context and see it as "shitting on admins". I trust your judgement & respect your outcome.
How would you know "for sure" i cant do admin job, you are just under estimating the players ability, however i believe am mentally prepered for it but i pyhsically do not want to hold such responsbilities. let me wrap it up in simple line - I give you the point of view of a player while you give me the viewpoint of a leader, this is called a dialogue.
Everything you just said basically stated you are saying RON/Aragorn is wRONg. I'm sorry, but until you are a Server Owner yourself, it's not really your decision to state who is and isn't capable of what and why. This is a friendly discussion regarding the topic at hand, not something to point blame at specific people. That's fine if you have references, but that is not really important. If the current admins do something wrong, they are going to get caught when the new wave/system is implemented. There's no reason to point fingers and accuse anyone.
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players have been taking the chance for an unban for granted.
I respectfully halfway disagree.
Those who truly and honestly care about Argonath will consider an unban an honor rather than a privilege. The other half will gladly take the unban and fuck more shit up just because they can. That is, until they get banned again...
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Everything you just said basically stated you are saying RON/Aragorn is wRONg. I'm sorry, but until you are a Server Owner yourself, it's not really your decision to state who is and isn't capable of what and why. This is a friendly discussion regarding the topic at hand, not something to point blame at specific people. That's fine if you have references, but that is not really important. If the current admins do something wrong, they are going to get caught when the new wave/system is implemented. There's no reason to point fingers and accuse anyone.
Insulting comment removed.
Behave.
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Removed.
Take a look at your avatar and ask me that again. Ya, quit with the rulebreaking.
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Everything you just said basically stated you are saying RON/Aragorn is wRONg. I'm sorry, but until you are a Server Owner yourself, it's not really your decision to state who is and isn't capable of what and why. This is a friendly discussion regarding the topic at hand, not something to point blame at specific people. That's fine if you have references, but that is not really important. If the current admins do something wrong, they are going to get caught when the new wave/system is implemented. There's no reason to point fingers and accuse anyone.
If I remember correctly, you were the one in the same position like WaKa, few months ago. So why are you smartassing in his topic, you should be silencio about this subject.
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If I remember correctly, you were the one in the same position like WaKa, few months ago. So why are you smartassing in his topic, you should be silencio about this subject.
Please read my previous replies and stop trashing this topic with flames and provokes.
Those who truly and honestly care about Argonath will consider an unban an honor rather than a privilege. The other half will gladly take the unban and f**k more shit up just because they can. That is, until they get banned again...
That's actually a very good point you brought up. :)
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Take a look at your avatar and ask me that again. Ya, quit with the rulebreaking.
Please give me a link to the rule where it says I can't have a animated troll face in my avatar. Ya, learn the rules
Insulting others won't get you anywhere.
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<Insert Quote Here>
Stop leaking admin info.
Please give me a link to the rule where it says I can't have a animated troll face in my avatar. Ya, learn the rules
I was referring to what it represented, and what you were attempting to do to me. Please stay on topic and stop provoking.
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Stop leaking admin info.
That's not admin info lawl :lol:
I was referring to what it represented, and what you were attempting to do to me. Please stay on topic and stop provoking.
First go learn what "Trolling" means before you accuse someone of it. (I'm sorry Squeak but I stole this frum u) COME AT ME BRO
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That's not admin info lawl :lol:
First go learn what "Trolling" means before you accuse someone of it. (I'm sorry Squeak but I stole this frum u) COME AT ME BRO
For the third time, stop going off-topic and provoking arguments.
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And then they cry about permbans....
Answer was given... No need to try to earn more points to be banned... Trolling, BTW, is a right way to be banned (read my posts in this topic)...
that is all