Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Teddy on September 19, 2011, 05:46:39 am
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This is not a moan topic, just a logical question with support.
When faced with a deathmatcher, and an admin(s) or moderator etc. is present online, your choice is too /report ID deathmatching
However, my point is that 90% of deathmatchers use combat shotgun, and don't give much time for anything else, by the time an admin can read the /report your already dead and admins are "I can't do anything about it now", so in which case doesn't it make more sense, to first off save the admin(s) time by dealing with reports that they can't do anything about in the first place, and just Deatchmatch the Deathmatcher back, however your faced with if others see you get reported for deathmatching and face admin punishment.
Any feedback or thoughts?
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We can see death logs, if you report the guy even after you get killed - we can still punish him.
If i ever cought you DM'ing someone becouse you got DM'd, i won't hesitate to punish you.
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Admins generally say you should not fight back against DMers, but developers (well, Aragorn specifically) have said before that you should fight back against DMers, which is the view that I agree with. Don't expect a canselsuspect or anything, of course, but fighting back against DMers has always been advised.
As a matter of fact one time I got told by an admin that unless I fought back, the DMer would not get punished. Needless to say I instantly killed the guy and then he got punished, and everyone had a grand day.
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We can see death logs, if you report the guy even after you get killed - we can still punish him.
If i ever cought you DM'ing someone becouse you got DM'd, i won't hesitate to punish you.
I'm aware of this, but It why do I get a responce such as:
I can't do anything about it now"
Not mentioning any names, I was standing out side city-hall, Private messaging someone and I was killed by someone unknown, I message the only only moderator with not many people on, and told them who ever just killed me was DMing, that was there reply.
In another situation, I was at Las Ventruas Country Club (Collin Family HQ) when I was attacked by a random newcomer, I saw there was a number of players online and few admins, so I take out a gun and starting opening a few warning shots if you will, the newcomer continues, so I begin to take lethal action against them, they run off about 30 seconds later I'm frozen by a moderator and warned about deathmatching.... as I was report by I assume a taxi driver that was driving by at the time.
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I can understand if it is in self defense.
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getting shot at by DMer??
3 options
1. fight back and kill their ass, only /report if they repeat it (though its hypocritical to report DM after killing a DMer)
2. run, hide and /report
3. run, /pm them to stop, or explain its not allowed.... if they continue... /report
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If someone tries to kill me I kill them.
You don't get punished for defending yourself from a deathmatcher, carkiller, etc. Even Aragorn has said so.
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Self-defence is allowed. You can fight him back (but remember that killing is still a crime and you won't get unsuspected), or you can report to admins and run/hide.
If you both report and then start shooting at him, to admins you will look like a deathmatcher yourself. So either man up and try self defence, or report and wait for admins.
Admins generally say you should not fight back against DMers
At least not when you're reporting them for DM. If you want to use self-defence, keep admins out of it.
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As a matter of fact one time I got told by an admin that unless I fought back, the DMer would not get punished. Needless to say I instantly killed the guy and then he got punished, and everyone had a grand day.
I don't see any logic in that.
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Perhaps i din't made my first post clear enought, technicly i ment, if you get DM'd you can shoot back, only dont wait for 5 minutes and shoot the guy who DM'd you.
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If you are too vulnerable to be able to report, then yeah, you should shoot back if you mind dying.
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I know what you mean by this topic, a few months ago I had about 30hp at Verona Beach and two very active regulars who are in 2 of Argonaths most known clans/groups came and rammed and blew up my car inside pay'n'spray, I got out and ran in which they started shouting "Fucking moron" and started shooting/carkilling me and I wasnt able to report because I was too busy hoping away, I did have Desert Eagle on me but there was no chance of me turning round to aim because I wouldve been killed by the time I did, after I got killed I reported them and I was told that admin can't do anything because they didn't see it and I didn't have any screen shots because I was to busy running, back on-topic I think your best chance of beating the deathmatcher is not to deathmatch him/her but to take screen shots whilst your running away and post them to an admin later, by the way screenshots to cause you to lagg (like a 1 second escape abuse) which means using it would make it harder for them to kill you (I'm not suggesting you should abuse the screenshot button in order to live :razz:).
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If you wish to fight back do so, however do NOT report and fight back.
Sometimes people do report and fight back.. But this is wrong because it's false reporting, as if.. you are taking the case on your HANDS.. so I do ALWAYS punish if I see someone DMing back after having report'ed..
Either take it via roleplay way if you can get along with it, like roleplay, shot back or run / call cops.. OR do report to admins.. but NEVER do both.
@Mikal, whenever you are getting randomly DMed it'd be better to fraps it.. Because if you are running away / reporting it + WHILE taking evidence, it will be the same as ESQ Abuse, since your character is not loosing health when you are taking screenshots as it's like paused..
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Just /report
As far I know, Admins can see who killed who, which weapon was used, was person a cop and such.
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If you wish to fight back do so, however do NOT report and fight back.
Sometimes people do report and fight back.. But this is wrong because it's false reporting, as if.. you are taking the case on your HANDS.. so I do ALWAYS punish if I see someone DMing back after having report'ed..
Either take it via roleplay way if you can get along with it, like roleplay, shot back or run / call cops.. OR do report to admins.. but NEVER do both.
If I'm not the one who reported it, and just handling it myself that leaves me open for a report from another nearby player such as the LV Country Club incident I described before.
Just /report
As far I know, Admins can see who killed who, which weapon was used, was person a cop and such.
Yes, we're all aware Cop Killed Cop, Civil killed Civil, Etc. Etc..
Again... re-read the topic... Admins have stated they can't do anything, and in most reports I have done against deathmatchers who shortly after killed me, no action was taken.
Perhaps i din't made my first post clear enought, technicly i ment, if you get DM'd you can shoot back, only dont wait for 5 minutes and shoot the guy who DM'd you.
I understand that, at that point its more of a revenge kill.
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Make sure you have weapons on you...if someone tries to DM you, shoot them! You have a valid reason (as far as server rules are concerned) because you didn't randomly start shooting! I'm sure they wouldn't bother you again ;)
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It's the survival of the fittest on the streets of Los Santos:
Mobb Deep - Survival of the Fittest (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxDdN-puo3g#)
Kill or be killed.
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Back in MTA:VC (yes another ''back in MTAVC'' stamement, but this one is just a mere illustration) the people would just kill any incoming DMer. [R*]ber would dispatch ARPD SWAT to defend the server case a group of DMers joined and harassed fellow mushrooms.
Speaking as an ex-admin I'm sure that you will be much more convenient to admins and community as a whole by defending yourself (after all this is a GTA game, okay?) instead of sending 500.000 reports about one guy who has absolutely no idea about how things work in the server and could be taught the tricks of the trade.
I have learnt this little rule not to mix The Sims with Grand Theft Auto the hard way. Trust me, you feel much better by relieving admins of 500 reports about one bullet coming across PC screen..
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I have learnt this little rule not to mix The Sims with Grand Theft Auto the hard way. Trust me, you feel much better by relieving admins of 500 reports about one bullet coming across PC screen..
I could not agree more, I figure its one less report they've gotta deal with.
Yet, going back its when you do perform this "self defense" action you are again possibly being held responsible for "DMing" and can face admin punishment, I don't wanna get kicked or banned for killing someone who came at me first, and I killed him if that makes sense and yes it has happened, and I see it happen quite a number of times. This is my only problem with the situation, I guess it goes back to the famous moan statement "admin jump to conclusions" which I personally have mixed feelings with, regardless the point is, as an admin picture this
John Doe reported Teddy Collin for Dming (or however it shows)
Civilian Teddy Collin Killed Civilian Johny Doe etc..
It appears at first that, I'm a douche and just killed Johny Doe, when in all meaningful sense, I was just defending myself against a new player who doesn't understand that this is a RP server(which really doesnt make sense to me considering....
HostName: Argonath RPG (( <----- HINT ITS AN RP SERVER)
Address: 178.63.52.144:7777
Players: 15 / 200
Ping: 120
Mode: Rock Stars RPG 4.1
Map: San Andreas
However, people sometimes are just plane ..... confusing for lack of better terms or statements.
I guess to make my point, my only concern is doing what admins are saying here and defending my self, and then being reported by another player and then receiving punishment.
It's the survival of the fittest on the streets of Los Santos:
Kill or be killed.
Ain't that the truth xD
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Not everyone by default knows what's RPG about.
Also, EITHER report to admins and wait for them to defend you from the deathmatcher, OR use self-defence and leave admins out of it.
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*post*
It's unlikely that you will face admins unless the DMer tries to frame you by reporting to admins.
And then again, if you get punished you can kindly explain your situation to the admin. A bit of logic and politeness is far away from moaning about punishment. If it's an extreme case such as that you got banned you can explain it all in unban request, and if it was really an excess by said admin he will change his mind once his mistake is shown at your unban... Everyone makes mistakes you know...
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I would say this, do not solve rulebreaking with rulebreaking, no logic in it. But you are allowed to defend yourself from deathmatchers.
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Self-defence is allowed. You can fight him back (but remember that killing is still a crime and you won't get unsuspected), or you can report to admins and run/hide.
Grzesiek said it well. Just remember that if you are going the self-defense route, you must follow the rules of self-defense or your crime is valid. The United States Of Argonath Constitution clearly outlines this for anyone confused about how this works.
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Personally I see no problem in defending yourself and reporting afterwards. I'm simply interested in stopping the man from deathmatching again. If he is killed after deathmatching you it will only mean a lost battle to him and as if he had done nothing wrong. He'd just try again with another person untill he succeeds (or runs out of weapons :D).
Surely such a report would be a little more tricky to handle seeing as you then have to find out who actually attacked first and what not. The thought of you saying "one less report for admins to handle" sounds nice, but isn't really what we're after.
However, my point is that 90% of deathmatchers use combat shotgun, and don't give much time for anything else, by the time an admin can read the /report your already dead and admins are "I can't do anything about it now"..
What? Almost all reports of deathmatching comes after the reporter has been killed so I don't understand why an admin would say "I can't do anything about it now". There's a lot you can do.
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do not solve rulebreaking with rulebreaking
Self defense is not rulebreaking if that's where you're coming from. And yes it is very logical. Ask yourself this: What game are you playing? a) The Sims b) GTA answer: b GTA is a game with a lot of violence, guns death gore etc etc. If you get attacked in a GTA game you defend yourself because that is how GTA is meant to be played. Yes we are in a RP server which isn't 100% exactly the same as the GTA concept but still it is not something completely different, otherwise we would be a The Sims RP server or something instead of GTA RP.
Oh yes and if you don't like the idea to see players defending themselves and instead sending a /report about every damn bullet that pops up in screen then I suppose you are able of answering all the server's reports and I assume you do not ''I can't answer all reports ffs!''.
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Open fire at me and expect I will open fire back. I often doesn't care about deathmatchers but if admins are busy and don't have the time for my report, I take care of the deathmatcher by my own, in a legal way of course (/su [id shooting).