Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Julio. on September 22, 2011, 09:31:03 pm
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Looking around the unban section, every so often I see someone that's been banned, and it's fairly easy to conclude that it was CLEO that hacked the weapons.
HOWEVER, what really gets me is how some Admins are acting righteous saying that we were told all along that CLEO is a risk, no, we weren't, and when we finally were told due to a couple of strange unban requests pointing the problem with CLEO out, the topic that was written may not have been seen by everyone, so you cannot expect everyone to have seen it.
So stop moaning about people using CLEO when they 'Know it hacks weapons' - Is a quote from one of the Admins, when no, they do not necessarily know.
Okay, rant over, discuss.
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Just because you dont know the rule doesn't mean you don't have to follow it.
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Cleo actually hacked weapons randomly for me about 2 months ago, I was eventualy unbanned after everyone insisted cleo can't randomly just give weapons until some other unban requests we shown with the same thing that I had...
However they say it's your own responsibility to have mods that can cause problems for you.
I no longer trust ELM or CLEO..
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Don't install mods and your ignorance wont get you banned.
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I'm sure theres a post saying for players to use modifications at their own risk...
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You can use CLEO mods on your OWN risk. And if your not aware of it's ''accidental'' actions, Don't install. Since you could see that in Mikal's and Raykaza's Unban requests. That's what ELM + CLEO can do together. (This happend to me once in another server) And.. I weren't aware of it. It got me banned and all.. So i deleted it all, And now i only have car mods, HUD mods etc.. Mods that do not harm anything.
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I'm sure theres a post saying for players to use modifications at their own risk...
Show us.
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Show us.
It is even on the same page of this same board:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=72814.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=72814.0)
Also this:
http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/SA-MP_Server_Warnings#Mod_Usage (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/SA-MP_Server_Warnings#Mod_Usage)
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It is even on the same page of this same board:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=72814.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=72814.0)
Also this:
http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/SA-MP_Server_Warnings#Mod_Usage (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/SA-MP_Server_Warnings#Mod_Usage)
There you all have the answers that has to be given.
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Most people do not go out of their way to Search 'Why shouldn't I use this mod'
[sarcasm]You know, isn't it pretty damn strange that people think CLEO is safe? Because, like we see every single person spawn rocket launchers everyday with it.[/sarcasm]
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it was CLEO that hacked the weapons.
Correct.
we were told all along that CLEO is a risk
Check the topic made my Murt, it's clearly explained there that Cleo lately has been spawning weapons and such.
you cannot expect everyone to have seen it.
You use mods on your risk. It has always been like that.
stop moaning about people using CLEO
We are not moaning, we are trying to point out the obvious fact that you shouldn't be using Cleo AT ALL since it's spawning weapons which is banned from the server. If you still are using it and starting to spawn minigun or other weapons, expect to be banned.
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Check the topic made my Murt, it's clearly explained there that Cleo lately has been spawning weapons and such.
True a topic was made explaining it, but do you actually expect every single player to go through the entire forum to find 1 topic regarding a faulty/glitchy mod.
We are not moaning, we are trying to point out the obvious fact that you shouldn't be using Cleo AT ALL since it's spawning weapons which is banned from the server. If you still are using it and starting to spawn minigun or other weapons, expect to be banned.
The mod is known to have such bugs therefore administration are aware of it, so then they could inspect the reason for the hacked weapon alerts before banning a player straight up.
If there's further problems, then speak to Gandalf about disallowing the usage of EML on Argonath Servers.
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None tell you to dont use hacks but you can hack at your own risk,whats the difference then ?just forbid any usage of it.
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just forbid any usage of it.
It is forbidden. If a player says he's hacking, he's getting banned or told to remove it right away or be banned. That's not the case with ELM. If we wee you using ELM, we do not tell you to remove it. You might be warned that it can cause problems, but you wont be forced to remove it. But, if it starts giving you weapon or anything, it will be treated as cheating and therefor, we are taking appropiate actions against it.
they could inspect the reason for the hacked weapon alerts before banning a player straight up.
Why should we start inspecting? If we get warnings about someone spawning minigun or anything else, we take it as weapon hacking and taking the appropiate actions for it. As said before, you are using mods at your own risk, we are not babysitters.
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don't use CLEO mods, problem solved
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I remeber on my unban request ages ago, when I was not believed about CLEO, I said that Admins should actually check the player instead of relying on the scripts. Admins nowadays are turning into System Operators instead of Administrating... Not referring to all Admins, but some are.
It's not a race to see who can punish who first, you should all take on the attitude Innocent until proven guilty, thats the way I treat it as an Admin in Paruni.
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I remeber on my unban request ages ago, when I was not believed about CLEO, I said that Admins should actually check the player instead of relying on the scripts. Admins nowadays are turning into System Operators instead of Administrating... Not referring to all Admins, but some are.
It's not a race to see who can punish who first, you should all take on the attitude Innocent until proven guilty, thats the way I treat it as an Admin in Paruni.
How the heck you know how we work, eh?
You think that we punish people because is fun? damn no.
We works as a team, giving informations to each other, checking them always.
Some of you should kiss some asses because sometimes we gave more chances than we should.
Im so fucking tired of some of yours attitude, we're working our asses to make justice, you sit in your confortable chair and moan about something that you do not even know.
Peace,
Joker.
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Rule is clear and simple. Use mods at own risk.
If it spawns you something, you're getting banned. If you're sure that it won't spawn you anything, why worry? If you know that it might spawn you something, and you don't want to get banned and later explain the situation, don't use the mod.
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How the heck you know how we work, eh?
You think that we punish people because is fun? damn no.
We works as a team, giving informations to each other, checking them always.
Some of you should kiss some asses because sometimes we gave more chances than we should.
Im so f**king tired of some of yours attitude, we're working our asses to make justice, you sit in your confortable chair and moan about something that you do not even know.
Peace,
Joker.
wat.
Rule is clear and simple. Use mods at own risk.
If it spawns you something, you're getting banned. If you're sure that it won't spawn you anything, why worry? If you know that it might spawn you something, and you don't want to get banned and later explain the situation, don't use the mod.
Same bullshit again,say something we dont know.
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Same bullshit again,say something we dont know.
Rules are not bullshit. Bullshit is someone playing here for some time and still not being able to comply to such simple rules (which have been already explained numerous times).
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Rules are not bullshit. Bullshit is someone playing here for some time and still not being able to comply to such simple rules (which have been already explained numerous times).
Its bullshit banning people for something allowed,its like you're saying "use the mod but you can get banned for that".then just disallow it and this probleme is solved.
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With that attitude every mod would have to be classified by admins. That's just a waste of time. Making admins chase every certain mod user would be rediculous, especially when people would moan "omg admin but it doesn't do anything".
And if a mod would be classified as safe, and it started acting like a cheat, the player would get banned anyway. Then would moaning start about "omg admins you said this mod was safe and allowed".
The current rule is simple, straight-forward, fair and rather non restrictive.
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Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.
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Rule is clear and simple. Use mods at own risk.
Grzesiek pretty much answered this entire topic.
Now before people get into a moan-fest about CLEO being the cause of the hacked weapons, it has been proven that it is not CLEO on it's own. Something, somewhere along the lines is causing it, but it's not just CLEO or CLEO and ELM by themselves. Someone is either using something they shouldn't, or CLEO is having a conflict with a server script that is causing bugs to arise that lead to this. No other server has reported any issues with CLEO 3 or 4 regarding this, the issues are not present in any version of CLEO, and it's only recently that Argo's SA:MP server has run into this problem, which leads it to prove that it's unique to our server and/or it's players. Again, always use mods at your own risk as Grzesiek said, but people need to also stop assuming that every single person is a hacker just because they use a specific mod. This paranoia is causing users to be banned unknowingly, and it's also leading to users getting angry at the admins for no reason.
If you suddenly think you have hacked weapons, PM an admin immediately and explain to them how it happened so they can help you hunt it down instead of ban you. Until we find the true cause of this, people just need to calm down, be cautious, and stop blaming each other. The rules in this community regarding mods have never changed, so there's no reason to flip out over it now.
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What I am saying, is how can you expect people to KNOW about this issue?
It doesn't have a big sticker on the side saying 'I SPAWN WEAPONS' does it?
Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.
Great, you know a latin quote, but not really applicable here because people do not KNOW that CLEO does anything wrong, thus nothing dissuades them from downloading it.
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What I am saying, is how can you expect people to KNOW about this issue?
It doesn't have a big sticker on the side saying 'I SPAWN WEAPONS' does it?
I'm not against your statement either. This issue has already been proved to be unique to our SA:MP server for unknown reasons, so if admins investigate the issue with the user, I think it would become fairly obvious that it was not intended. I do agree that using mods is at your own risk, as stated before, but it's also down to our Developers to figure out why only this specific server is getting the issue. In that case, it's not just a user at fault for their mods, but it's the server itself at fault too due to an unknown bug. Obviously neither CLEO nor ELM on their own spawn weapons, so there must be some sort of conflict being triggered by the mods and the server's scripts/settings that is causing it to pop up...especially when it's so recent when ELM has been around for quite some time in this community.
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What I know of it triggers when the player who has CLEO and ELM enters a vehicle as a passenger during some circumstances. All have said it, and then the weapon spawn come.
I'll write this as a warning now, when this happens. /q immediatly and remove CLEO and ELM from your game and the weapon spawn will be gone.
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Why should we start inspecting? If we get warnings about someone spawning minigun or anything else, we take it as weapon hacking and taking the appropiate actions for it. As said before, you are using mods at your own risk, we are not babysitters.
I never said once that you need to babysit the players, I merely said that you cant always rely on scripts to do your job for you, they are merely a warning system, so if you get a warning, you investigate that warning to see whether its true or not.
Doing administration work is not babysitting, if you see it as the same I have to say in all honesty you could do with a break from the game.
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Why should we start inspecting? If we get warnings about someone spawning minigun or anything else, we take it as weapon hacking and taking the appropiate actions for it. As said before, you are using mods at your own risk, we are not babysitters.
Babysitter or not, it is your job regardless. Server reports are just as important as player reports. You shouldn't be banning the second you get a warning about possible weapon hacks. What if the server is bugging and the player is innocent? Those warnings are only there to assist you in doing your job, not do it for you. That's the same reason why Jeffrey is in the server. If admins were meant to just ban as soon as they saw that message, then the scripts would be made to auto-ban upon finding the weapons, not warn admins so they can investigate it.
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If admins were meant to just ban as soon as they saw that message, then the scripts would be made to auto-ban
I never said admins are ment to just ban out from the blue. But you still dont see the point. How many times do i have to repeat myself?
If we get a message about you trying to spawn a minigun, you are trying it, on purpose or not on purpose, you are still doing so. Therefor, it's treated as you are hacking and you will eventually get banned for it. As said, you are using mods at your OWN risk. Do not try to bullshit the administration team or point fingers at us because of YOUR mod.
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I never said admins are ment to just ban out from the blue. But you still dont see the point. How many times do i have to repeat myself?
If we get a message about you trying to spawn a minigun, you are trying it, on purpose or not on purpose, you are still doing so. Therefor, it's treated as you are hacking and you will eventually get banned for it. As said, you are using mods at your OWN risk.
Wrong. Just because the scripts say you are doesn't mean you are. I get that you are trying to say that even if a user does it unintentionally, it's still happening, but that is not my point. There is still always a chance that the scripts could be bugged and are reporting false information. It's happened in the past, and it can always happen again. Yes, users are responsible for what their mods do, but that doesn't necessarily mean admins should straight up ban them for something unintentional either. Yes, they know it's "use at your own risk", but admins are also supposed to be there to help players and investigate reports. If a user has a simple mod that's only conflicting with our server and nobody else's, admins should be investigating the issue when it comes up so they can help the player understand that it's causing an issue. The weapon hacking detection only pops up for admins since any hacked weapons are automatically removed, so the player might not even know this has happened until they are already banned. This is obviously something that is specific to our community's SA:MP server and no one else's, as well. At minimum this should be looked into, and I'm speaking about not just admins, but Devs too. Please also keep in mind that admins are supposed to help players out even when they are caught rulebreaking. Sometimes they don't know they are breaking the rules and admins are there to not only punish them, but to also teach them. If they are using something that gets them banned and they don't understand why, how will they learn from their mistakes? Yes, Regulars know these rules, but new players don't, and they are the ones that are more likely to be banned on the spot.
P.S. I'm not pointing fingers. As I've said before, both sides need to get past the paranoid BS and work together to figure out the cause of this issue. If people are immediately banned without trying to debug it, we'll never know why it happens.
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There is still always a chance that the scripts could be bugged and are reporting false information. It's happened in the past, and it can always happen again.
The scripts on the server isn't what causes it, it's the mods you're using that causes it.
When this issue was made public I remember there being talk on the SA:MP forums about it and that many other servers had the same issue. Obviously it has nothing to do with the scripts since not all scripts are the same. Anyway, as soon as we realized this the admins announced this many times through the server for several days to come as well as on the forum. Of course, someone is bound to miss this but you cannot expect us to send a message to each and every user on Argonath.
You say you aren't hacking, but in fact you are. Even though it is not intentional. If we did not have the anti-hack script (supported by David_Omid?) you would most assurdely actually be able to use the RPG-s or grenades that the mod causes you to spawn.
This is why Gandalf, so often, has proclaimed that he rather you play the game "cleanly", the way it's meant to be played and that you all use mods at your own risks. What's the point of "you're on risks" if you expect us to ask everyone if they are acutally using hacks. Even if we had the time no one would say "yes"...
The weapon hacking detection only pops up for admins since any hacked weapons are automatically removed, so the player might not even know this has happened until they are already banned.
The player weapon hacking gets the exact same message as the admin.
This mod has probably not been banned from usage since it is held so darely by the players using it. Hence "at your own risk".
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The scripts on the server isn't what causes it, it's the mods you're using that causes it.
Wrong. Argonath RPG's SA:MP server is the ONLY server to report this issue so far. Even the ELM and CLEO mod creators don't have a clue what's going on.
@The weapon hacking message: Users don't get a message that they have hacked weapons last I checked. There may be something that says their weapon they have gotten isn't allowed, but from my previous server beta testing experience in SA:MP, it never actually used the word "hacked" in any of it's warnings to users. Only the admin messages had this. That in itself would confuse unknowing users.
About the actual script: All it does is detect a player's weapons and if they have one on-hand that matches the disallowed weapons, it displays the messages and removes those weapons. It doesn't actually detect if they are "hacked" or not, since SA:MP isn't capable of detecting every possible hack program out there, hence there being no script function for it. The script is just a clever way to catch disallowed weapons as people spawn them, according to the data the client sends to the server.
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Well, it just happen to me..
I connected the server as every day, nothing changes then I saw George Jetson, I press G to get in his PD car and the chat start to flood "You are trying to spawn weapon blabla".
Murt kicked me for "bugg relogg", I came back, press G again and boom.. again it flood ""You are trying to spawn weapon blabla"
I /q and did it again with Murt witnessing and boom again.. I removed ELM/Cleo and no more problems.
First time it happened
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Well, it just happen to me..
I connected the server as every day, nothing changes then I saw George Jetson, I press G to get in his PD car and the chat start to flood "You are trying to spawn weapon blabla".
Murt kicked me for "bugg relogg", I came back, press G again and boom.. again it flood ""You are trying to spawn weapon blabla"
I /q and did it again with Murt witnessing and boom again.. I removed ELM/Cleo and no more problems.
First time it happened
What version of CLEO and ELM did you have? Were you wearing a police skin that was fresh from /duty, or previously saved weapons from your last logout?
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What version of CLEO and ELM did you have? Were you wearing a police skin that was fresh from /duty, or previously saved weapons from your last logout?
I had cleo 4 with latest elm and townzone mod that show area on radar. It was returned weapons from my previous log out. I remember having more pepperspray than usual due to SWAT training yesterday.
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I had cleo 4 with latest elm and townzone mod that show area on radar. It was returned weapons from my previous log out. I remember having more pepperspray than usual due to SWAT training yesterday.
I've yet to get this bug in my entire time playing on FD and PD duty. The SWAT thing you mentioned makes me a bit curious though. I know of at least one person who mentioned getting this bug in the past who has SWAT rights. Your radar mod could also be linked to it theoretically, although I don't know if anyone else who has been caught by this had it as well or not. I don't personally use it.
Anyone else here that has gotten this "weapon hacking" bug used the mod or has SWAT rights? If this can be reproduced every time the same thing is done, maybe we can find the cause behind it.
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doesn't necessarily mean admins should...
admins are also supposed to ...
admins should be...
admins are there to not only punish them, but to also teach them.
Admins should do this, do that. You are not currently a SAMP admin... I think you have no idea.
Also admins are there solely for the enforcement of the rules and to ensure players can play without problems. We rely on regulars and veterans to teach players... this is how it has always been.
Regarding the topic, it says use mods at users own risk. If mods are compatible then every other server except Argonath, it is not up to the developers to figure out a work around for you to play with your mods. It is perfectly clear, use at own risk... no matter what you say about bug fixing or whatever - It is no ones job in Admin or dev team to spend time finding bugs or fixes caused by 3rd party mods.
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What i find amusing is that you guys are trying to tell us how to do our job..
There is still always a chance that the scripts could be bugged and are reporting false information
Haven't happend so far, and the scripts aren't reacting unless you actually have those weapons in your inventory.
but that doesn't necessarily mean admins should straight up ban them for something unintentional either.
So if you unintenionally using hacking software, we shouldn't ban them? It's the same thing.
The weapon hacking detection only pops up for admins since any hacked weapons are automatically removed
Both admins and the player in question is getting alarmed about it.
Please also keep in mind that admins are supposed to help players out even when they are caught rulebreaking
We do.
Regulars know these rules, but new players don't, and they are the ones that are more likely to be banned on the spot.
New players gets a popup window with the rules when spawning for the first time. They can either read through it and follow them, or they will break it and start hacking. New players and veterans are getting treated equally when it's about hacks.
and they are the ones that are more likely to be banned on the spot.
They are treated equally as veteran players when it comes to hacks.
both sides need to get past the paranoid BS
There is no paranoia, we are doing our job.
Thank you for trying to learn me on how to administrate. Now go somewhere else and try look like you are inferior to others, it wont work here.
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"Don't use mods that give you an advantage over others." Simple enough as that, if the mod you installed gives you a weapon restricted, its an unfair advantage over others, there for, not allowed. Not our fault you don't really investigate the mod or something..
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"Don't use mods that give you an advantage over others." Simple enough as that, if the mod you installed gives you a weapon restricted, its an unfair advantage over others, there for, not allowed. Not our fault you don't really investigate the mod or something..
That's the thing though Louis. Only our server is having this issue. No one else's is. That means new players who think the mod is safe will get banned for not knowing that it's causing issues here and no where else.
Even if the rules are clear, since when are admins not supposed to help players? New players read the rules when registering, but admins are still supposed to assist them in learning them.
I hardly see how a known safe mod on other servers should be the fault of users when only our server has an issue. There is nothing to warn users that some mods may react badly with out server that are known to be safe...especially when we've used the same mods for years without issue. Our forums are riddled with various topics about helping users to get CLEO and ELM installed. That itself is misleading to new or unknowing users. I know the use of mods falls upon users themselves, but this is obviously a very special case since only our server is having the problem for unknown reasons.
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SugarD... How can you be freaking naive?
The scripts ONLY reacts when the player got those weapons in their inventory.. Which means it is a HACK.. Either other servers dosen't got as good anti hack script as Argonath, or the administration on other servers are to dumb to find what's causing it.
find any proof that the scripts or bugged or be quiet. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and you are just trying to show to the rest of the community that we have no clue about what we are doing and how much better then you are then all of us.
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The scripts ONLY reacts when the player got those weapons in their inventory.. Which means it is a HACK.. Either other servers dosen't got as good anti hack script as Argonath, or the administration on other servers are to dumb to find what's causing it.
I already explained earlier how it works, and no, it's not just hacked weapons. Yes, it's the most common way for it to happen, but it is possible to trigger it in other ways if the client reports you having weapons you don't. If these users never see the hacked weapons, then it's possible that something with ELM or CLEO could be triggering a memory address that the server thinks is stating their on-hand weapons as something else. As I said before, it's possible for there to be bugs. It always has been possible, and always will be. It doesn't matter how good you script something, bugs will always exist. This is true in every single program in the coding world. It's an undeniable fact. If you want an example of it happening, ask David_Omid about what happened when he first added the fire missions on the test server for RS4. It triggered them then because they weren't set as allowed yet when the server gave them the "weapons" during missions. I know this because I helped him test them personally.
find any proof that the scripts or bugged or be quiet. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, and you are just trying to show to the rest of the community that we have no clue about what we are doing and how much better then you are then all of us, and if you continue this, you will be on a thin line.
No, I am not. I just don't want to see innocent players banned for something that is obviously specific to our community. Stop trying to pick fights with me. I'm discussing this issue, not blaming anyone. I clearly said earlier that I wasn't doing such, so don't threaten me.
Admins should do this, do that. You are not currently a SAMP admin... I think you have no idea.
I was a SA:MP admin before, as well as one in MTA:VC twice, and IV:MP. I'm clearly aware of the workload involved, especially at peak times. This never stopped me. If you don't like the job you do, then quit. I don't mean that in a provoking way, but it's pretty much the only way I can say it. Users are given these rights to help each other and keep the community peaceful, not to ban as soon as a hacker shows up. I've seen admins take the time before to explain to a hacker that their hacks aren't allowed, or even at minimum when busy, use the commands that tell them with a warning, giving the user a chance to leave and turn them off instead of being banned. There's a reason why there was the admin reconstruction of SA:MP in 2009. Admins back then had become to strict and would punish for the smallest things instead of help people. I'm not saying it's happening now, but we also don't want to lead to this. Yes, users who know better should be punished, but this case is definitely special since it's server-specific, so even many Regular users aren't aware of what's going on since not everyone checks the forum. Some just prefer to show up and play. That's where admins should be stepping in to explain the problem to them. If they refuse to listen, well then they are obviously deserving of the ban.
Not everyone who accidentally triggers this is intending to be malicious. They just want to RP, hence why they have the mod to begin with. We already know that no one has found a way to reproduce this successfully yet, so I doubt anyone would care to do it just to accidentally hack. If they were trying to be malicious, they'd just go and install a hacking program.
And again, I'm going to say it since people are obviously blaming me for being defensive of innocent players:
I'M NOT AGAINST THE ADMIN TEAM, THE USERS, OR ANYONE. MY STATEMENTS ARE PURELY DISCUSSION ON THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE.
I've been an admin plenty of times before, even before some of you joined this community. I know what it entails, and I know it's not easy sometimes. That doesn't mean anyone should be "taking it easy" and just banning straight up either. Everyone deserves an equal chance, and I've believed that even since my own days as an admin. The Argonath Vision even states that everyone is equal here, so we should treat them as such.
@Zaila: I'm not saying you or any admin specifically isn't doing your job correctly. I'm simply saying that as a community overall, due to the mysterious issues behind this problem, that extra care should be given until the root cause can be discovered since it's only specific to our server, which is going to confuse a lot of users...especially when SA:MP itself added support for ELM way back when.
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I'M NOT AGAINST THE ADMIN TEAM, THE USERS, OR ANYONE. MY STATEMENTS ARE PURELY DISCUSSION ON THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE.
You're statements have so far not been very much about the specific issue. I did not read it all, obviously, because it was not relevent. Speaking of the specific issue - Jcstoods made a rather nice statement to your post that you have not yet given a statement on. I'd like to hear it.
Regarding the topic, it says use mods at users own risk. If mods are compatible then every other server except Argonath, it is not up to the developers to figure out a work around for you to play with your mods. It is perfectly clear, use at own risk... no matter what you say about bug fixing or whatever - It is no ones job in Admin or dev team to spend time finding bugs or fixes caused by 3rd party mods.
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You're statements have so far not been very much about the specific issue. I did not read it all, obviously, because it was not relevent. Speaking of the specific issue - Jcstoods made a rather nice statement to your post that you have not yet given a statement on. I'd like to hear it.
I didn't respond to it because I agree. I didn't say regarding the bugs on the mod itself. I'm saying admins should assist in explaining to the users the issue, and in the process work with them to hopefully find out how they got the bug since it's specific to only our server. If the mod is the cause, then so be it, but there's obviously something specific to our server that is triggering it as well. It's not just the mod at fault. The more people reporting the issue, the better chance we'll figure out why Argo's scripts are being set off by something that doesn't spawn weapons by itself. If every server were getting it, the mod would've been banned by now. This is a mutual issue between players with the mods and the server itself.
If everyone agrees, I wouldn't mind opening up a topic in SA:MP General regarding the bug and what users did when it happened so we can hopefully find a pattern, but I'm afraid to because it will likely turn into another discussion such as this where people will just say it's the user's fault and no one else's, rather than getting anything done regarding the issue itself.
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The warnings i have known for them to mainly occur when someone enters a vehicle, usually as a passenger.
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The warnings i have known for them to mainly occur when someone enters a vehicle, usually as a passenger.
That is true. Also a pattern I had noticed from this topic, the old topic made by Murt, and a topic on the admin section made by Leroy.
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The warnings i have known for them to mainly occur when someone enters a vehicle, usually as a passenger.
Ya, a user a couple posts back said the same as well. He mentioned that he was on police duty when it happened, and it was just after logging in with some extra pepper spray from a SWAT training previously, and that he also had another mod installed. I know Trane mentioned the bug once in the past on ARPD forums, and he has SWAT rights, but Idk any other specifics of his situation aside from that. The SWAT thing could be purely a coincidence though.
Anyone here gotten the bug as a driver?
Edit: Checked Vladimir_Gvardia's unban request. Seems he got it as a driver, so I guess that pattern is out. He obviously doesn't have SWAT rights either, so it's not that. His screenshot did show it spamming though, so maybe something triggers the weapon hack bug instead of opcodes due to the server's handling of opcodes that normally lead to users being removed or the client crashing. Anyone know what weapons are being reported as hacked?
Edit 2: Upon further research, SeanC was banned for ELM's issue for attempting to spawn a chainsaw. Anyone know if this is the only weapon popping up?
Edit 3: Lol I'm spamming my own post. Apologies, but adding stuff as I discover it. Apparently it's being reported as both restricted and regular weapons, so that pattern is out. Someone mentioned it happening under CLEO 3 and they only have ELM, and another user said CLEO 4, so no pattern there. Many users said they only had ELM installed as well.
Edit 4: Since ELM hasn't changed in awhile and this is much more recent, the only thing I can think of is CLEO itself causing it, but that doesn't make since unless it's an issue that existed since CLEO 3 at minimum, but then it would have popped up sooner. This must be a change on the server that has caused this, even if unintentionally. It may not be a bug on it's own, but something server-side that was modified in the scripts is obviously conflicting with one of the mods themselves, as I said was my belief before.
This would be more of a question for the Devs, but were there any changes to the admin or weapon systems around the time this issue started popping up? It's possible that a scripting function or piece of code in the script conflicts with the mod's memory and triggers this. So many users have ELM and CLEO installed, so for this to be random means a specific thing must be done for it to pop up. Every pattern I've seen so far gets debunked by another user. Anything else anyone can think of?
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Great, you know a latin quote, but not really applicable here because people do not KNOW that CLEO does anything wrong, thus nothing dissuades them from downloading it.
Not knowing the law doesn't excuse you from it. If you shoot a gun at a person and you don't know that you can go to jail for that, you will still go to jail.
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A simple question about ELM turned into a topic about SWAT, admins, users and Argo once again thanks to our good friend.........
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A simple question about ELM turned into a topic about SWAT, admins, users and Argo once again thanks to our good friend.........
No. If you bothered to read, I said I was looking for patterns regarding the cause of the weapon hacks bug ELM caused. Thanks for provoking me though.
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Rule still stands. I do not understand the whole dragging of the argument.
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The argument dropped awhile ago. We were discussing the pattern to see if we could find a cause of the actual issue before his comment was posted.
Again, trying to get back on topic here, has anyone else recognized any other patterns I didn't mention?
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The argument dropped awhile ago. We were discussing the pattern to see if we could find a cause of the actual issue before his comment was posted.
Again, trying to get back on topic here, has anyone else recognized any other patterns I didn't mention?
Pattern and pattern, what I can say regarding my experience with the weapon spawn is that when a player enters a passenger sometime, do not occur often but sometime it make them spawn the restricted weapons. To be noted, this have only happened to players with ELM and CLEO. How I handled it today when it happened was to kick the player and told him to remove the ELM and CLEO and it stopped. The funny thing when the player reconnected it was totally fine. But later on when he entered the vehicle again as a passenger the weapons started to spawn again.
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Pattern and pattern, what I can say regarding my experience with the weapon spawn is that when a player enters a passenger sometime, do not occur often but sometime it make them spawn the restricted weapons. To be noted, this have only happened to players with ELM and CLEO. How I handled it today when it happened was to kick the player and told him to remove the ELM and CLEO and it stopped. The funny thing when the player reconnected it was totally fine. But later on when he entered the vehicle again as a passenger the weapons started to spawn again.
Hmm...maybe something in the player's behavior is causing them to repeat the specific situation that triggers the bug. Given what you described, that's the only thing I can think of. Do you know what the player did before entering the vehicle off-hand?
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Hmm...maybe something in the player's behavior is causing them to repeat the specific situation that triggers the bug. Given what you described, that's the only thing I can think of. Do you know what the player did before entering the vehicle off-hand?
No actually not, but when he had removed ELM and CLEO it stopped. But first after he got kicked he returned and everything was fine. When he entered the police cruiser he started to spawn restricted weapons again.
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No actually not, but when he had removed ELM and CLEO it stopped. But first after he got kicked he returned and everything was fine. When he entered the police cruiser he started to spawn restricted weapons again.
Damn. One of the users reported was on a bike, and I know ELM slightly treats the two differently. Doesn't look like it's a pattern in vehicles then either. :S
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the pattern is all the users had fucking CLEO and ELM...simple: ban cleo and elm.
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Don't install mods and your ignorance wont get you banned.
He's trying to point out the hacked weapons and their connection with CLEO, not that he has been banned for it.
I'm pretty sure he came here for answers and not to be called ignorant - how you expect players to follow the rules if you're disrespecting 'em?
CLEO should be prohibited then - before real hackers use it as an excuse to be unbanned..
Plus ELM is pretty lame :razz:
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He's trying to point out the hacked weapons and their connection with CLEO, not that he has been banned for it.
I'm pretty sure he came here for answers and not to be called ignorant - how you expect players to follow the rules if you're disrespecting 'em?
Read the first page again to see who he is actually responding to instead of just commenting something posted two days ago..
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the pattern is all the users had f**king CLEO and ELM...simple: ban cleo and elm.
Yes, and it's only specific to our server, so why should we ban something that is not completely the mod's fault? Instead we could just find the cause and get it resolved. The ELM creator plays here, the Devs are aware of the situation with ELM/CLEO, and the CLEO creator could be contacted fairly easily, so once we figure this out, we can fix it. Why not search for a positive result instead of ban something the moment it becomes an issue?
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I was a SA:MP admin before, as well as one in MTA:VC twice, and IV:MP. I'm clearly aware of the workload involved, especially at peak times. This never stopped me. If you don't like the job you do, then quit.
I have been a SA:MP admin longer than you have even been with this community. I think I am a bit more experienced on this side than you are with how admins should work.
Rule still stands. I do not understand the whole dragging of the argument.
Because SugarD likes to cloud is pointless arguements with BS about admins and how he is most experienced, most knowing here so until everyone agrees with him.
The topic will be unnending... simply repeating the same points over and over in various ways usually hidden in clouds of text no one will read.
To all: If you want to make bug reports and try find a solution. Maybe remake the topic and do not start a load of your opinions and a massive moan on the admin team and others - and actually just keep relevant to the problem and you may actually get somewhere.
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Again, getting back on-topic, did anyone else find any patterns?
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Grzesiek pretty much answered this entire topic.
Now before people get into a moan-fest about CLEO being the cause of the hacked weapons, it has been proven that it is not CLEO on it's own. Something, somewhere along the lines is causing it, but it's not just CLEO or CLEO and ELM by themselves. Someone is either using something they shouldn't, or CLEO is having a conflict with a server script that is causing bugs to arise that lead to this. No other server has reported any issues with CLEO 3 or 4 regarding this, the issues are not present in any version of CLEO, and it's only recently that Argo's SA:MP server has run into this problem, which leads it to prove that it's unique to our server and/or it's players. Again, always use mods at your own risk as Grzesiek said, but people need to also stop assuming that every single person is a hacker just because they use a specific mod. This paranoia is causing users to be banned unknowingly, and it's also leading to users getting angry at the admins for no reason.
If you suddenly think you have hacked weapons, PM an admin immediately and explain to them how it happened so they can help you hunt it down instead of ban you. Until we find the true cause of this, people just need to calm down, be cautious, and stop blaming each other. The rules in this community regarding mods have never changed, so there's no reason to flip out over it now.
The reason it is not reported elsewhere is that on most servers admins do not have the tools we do, or do not care.
It is also possible that somehow CLEO removes the weapons when the player scrolls, and as our detection system is done regardless of scrolling it could trigger non-scrolled but present weapons.
It is not our matter to solve this, if you wish for someone to sort it out connect to SAESAndy who is writing the ELM. He has enough knowledge to solve these kind of things.
As the admins told in the beginning, it is very simple. If you are afraid of mods doing things that may get you banned, do not install them. If you do, do not blame the admins if you do get banned, but remove the mods.
If you are playing and see a big red text that an illegal weapon was removed, LOG OFF and de-activate the mods you have. Either that or wait until you ge banned...