Argonath RPG - A World of its own
Argonath RPG Community => Forum and site ideas and information => Topic started by: Reece on October 15, 2011, 07:35:41 pm
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Hello,
So some of the current moderators are doing great at their jobs, however some are completely inactive and/or are no longer doing any work and I think it would be great if some boards get moderators and some of the more inactive moderators get replaced.
That is all.
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It wouldn't hurt. And it would be nice to see some new moderators.
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Sounds cool.
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Good idea =)
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Sounds alright!
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Well, yes. Some of current are not that active as far I see. I might be wrong.
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Supported.
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Supported.
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Yes..
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No need..
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100% supported.
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I like this idea.
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Depends on if someone is actually looking to be leader of this (new) Forum Moderator team.
As it stands in-game admins and community leaders+ carry out some basic moderation tasks across forum boards and me as SAMP Cityhall Moderator has still capability's in other forum areas.
There really isn't a real shortage of moderators, just a few crossing of the t's and dotting of the i's ;).
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Server Administrators should also get forum moderation rights.
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Give the active server administration and developers moderator rights to their respected forum sections, then have an open moderation wave for those that want to moderator the out of game sections.
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Good idea, I agree with you Reece.
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How is this going? Any updates to the people who deal with this kind of thing?
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How is this going? Any updates to the people who deal with this kind of thing?
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I would like to have more details on this, it would be good for the forums to get a whole, good working, new structure.
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It is of my opinion, that just because you are ingame Administrators, does not give you obligatory rights to being a forum moderator, your job is ingame, not on the forum.
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Then why do IG admins get a visible member-group on the forum?
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Then why do IG admins get a visible member-group on the forum?
So players can more easily find us on the forum to ask questions and such in PM.
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So players can more easily find us on the forum to ask questions and such in PM.
I temporarily was part of the forum member group "LFS moderator". We got topic locking rights etc...not just being noticeable.
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It is of my opinion, that just because you are ingame Administrators, does not give you obligatory rights to being a forum moderator, your job is ingame, not on the forum.
Or do you simply want to see Admins be more restricted?
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They are currently restricted because there are about fifty mods in SAMP, and that's just waaaaaay too many forum moderators
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Or do you simply want to see Admins be more restricted?
At least they have rights more globally.
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Let's not go off topic.
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Or do you simply want to see Admins be more restricted?
You what?
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Server Administrators should also get forum moderation rights.
Don't even think about it.
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Don't even think about it.
+ 999999999999
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I have a suggestion, if I may be so bold to say it...
Why not have Administrators+ be given moderation rights in their respective servers' boards, and then have moderation rights on the cross boards regarding general discussions, pictures, videos, radio, etc.?
From there, just give Managers+ rights over News And Announcements, with their rights following the same as Administrators+ everywhere else.
It would be a simple way to allow multiple people to keep an eye on the forums, and it would give them additional ways to handle rulebreakers quickly and easily without needing to bother higher ranks when they aren't available. Likewise, it would also give them the ability to answer users and lock topics regarding questions and information as it applies now. Managers can already fully moderate their sections, so giving Administrators the privilege of basic moderation would help them keep things under control across the entire forum. The servers jointly sharing the task on the cross boards also keeps that in check.
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I have a suggestion, if I may be so bold to say it...
Why not have Administrators+ be given moderation rights in their respective servers' boards, and then have moderation rights on the cross boards regarding general discussions, pictures, videos, radio, etc.?
From there, just give Managers+ rights over News And Announcements, with their rights following the same as Administrators+ everywhere else.
It would be a simple way to allow multiple people to keep an eye on the forums, and it would give them additional ways to handle rulebreakers quickly and easily without needing to bother higher ranks when they aren't available. Likewise, it would also give them the ability to answer users and lock topics regarding questions and information as it applies now. Managers can already fully moderate their sections, so giving Administrators the privilege of basic moderation would help them keep things under control across the entire forum. The servers jointly sharing the task on the cross boards also keeps that in check.
I actually like this idea.
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I think forum moderation should not be granted based on IG rights.
Also, the Idea doesn't really work, if you were to give SA-MP admins mod rights over the SA-MP boards there would be 32 moderators....
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I think forum moderation should not be granted based on IG rights.
Also, the Idea doesn't really work, if you were to give SA-MP admins mod rights over the SA-MP boards there would be 32 moderators....
What's wrong with that? Just like IG, they all come online at different times. That means consistent coverage that matches that of that board's userbase.
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What's wrong with that? Just like IG, they all come online at different times. That means consistent coverage that matches that of that board's userbase.
If all administrators were assigned forum moderation rights, there might be some issues exist due to the many assignments given to them.
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If all administrators were assigned forum moderation rights, there might be some issues exist due to the disorderly assignments given to them.
Disorderly assignments? What do you mean?
I'm saying doing this:
News And Announcements - All Managers+
Speakerbox - All Administrators+
Clans, Groups, Teams - All Administrators+
Media Center - All Administrators+
TeamSpeak - TeamSpeak Administrators+
Live For Speed - Live For Speed Administrators+
Games Discussion - All Administrators+
Hardware/Software Support - All Administrators+
SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer - SA:MP Administrators+
MTA:SA - Multi Theft Auto: San Andreas - MTA:SA Administrators+
SA:MP Stunting - SA:MP Stunt Administrators+
IV:MP - IV: Multiplayer - IV:MP Administrators+
VC:MP - Vice City: Multiplayer - VC:MP Administrators+
MTA:VC - Multi Theft Auto: Vice City - MTA:VC Administrators+
LU - Liberty Unleashed - LU Administrators+
Administration boards - Managers+
Development boards - Community Leaders+
Etc.
It's fairly simple, and allows for equal basic moderation to keep rulebreaking under control. If Administrators can't handle administrating these boards, then they shouldn't have admin rights in the server to begin with either. Doing this also makes their presence more known to newer players, so they know who to ask for help on the forums.
This would EASILY solve many of the issues with forum moderation as the ranks would auto-grant the access instead of having outdated "Board Moderators" being specifically set. Just do it via board profiles and you're done. The same thing could be done for Managers and Developers so they can have their moderation rights on their respective boards via rank instead of username, thus granting and removing rights when the rank for the user is updated, preventing ANY outdated moderators.
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How do you thing they would handle both forums and servers? The administrators are elected based on the qualifications they had met during their time in game. Doesnt mean they could maintain the stability of the forums.
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Wave should be nicely done
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How do you thing they would handle both forums and servers? The administrators are elected based on the qualifications they had met during their time in game. Doesnt mean they could maintain the stability of the forums.
Well they use the forums to apply, not to mention their regulations and information are in boards hidden here on the forums that only they can see, so they are already being watched on their forum interactions, even as Moderators. Administrators and above have already proved themselves in-game and on the forums, and their attitude must be good in both as they represent the community regardless of where in it they are representing. Moderators are still in the learning stages and continuing to prove themselves, so that's why I suggested making this Administrator+, rather than Moderator+.
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Each board would just be full of the names of forum moderators which with over 30 would make it look a massive mess.
It should be kept separate from IG rights.
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What duties does a Forum Moderator have other than to answer the forum reports?
If the answer is something like "helping" players or answering questions then I'd say that that's not the responsibility of a forum moderator, but a responsibility of all the forum members.
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Each board would just be full of the names of forum moderators which with over 30 would make it look a massive mess.
It should be kept separate from IG rights.
Not if you do board permission sets like they currently are with some ranks.
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Each board would just be full of the names of forum moderators which with over 30 would make it look a massive mess.
It should be kept separate from IG rights.
This would EASILY solve many of the issues with forum moderation as the ranks would auto-grant the access instead of having outdated "Board Moderators" being specifically set. Just do it via board profiles and you're done.
As I said, Board Moderators would not be used as it's an outdated mess that doesn't really apply to our community since our moderation rights are generally given as a result of ranks, instead of community chatters being promoted from their previous knowledge of related discussions.
Take my rank for example. I'm a LU Manager, and as a result I have been made a Board Moderator on the LU boards. Why? Why not just use board profiles to automatically give my rank moderation rights so no one has to ever update the Board Moderators when a user resigns, is fired, is hired, etc.?
What duties does a Forum Moderator have other than to answer the forum reports?
If the answer is something like "helping" players or answering questions then I'd say that that's not the responsibility of a forum moderator, but a responsibility of all the forum members.
True, but obviously the administration is equally responsible in this. As for moderating, as I said, having them handle the basic moderation of reports and punishing users who flame, troll, provoke, etc. would be the same as they do IG already. They are just an extra security blanket against malicious attacks on users in addition to the ranks above them. Given the size of our community, and the varying time zones our users use, this would be an incredibly useful way to keep situations under control that would otherwise require a report or a watchful eye to catch hours after it has already happened.
I see absolutely no disadvantage to this. If users are being trusted to control and watch over the servers against maliciousness, and generally help users outside the scope of other players, then why can't we trust them with basic moderation of the forum? Some forum ranks already have the ability to globally moderate certain boards on the forum with basic moderation rights. This would just extend it to more servers with the same ranks, and to more boards, to have a better watch over the forum as a whole.
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Not needed.. as simple as that.
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Not needed.. as simple as that.
The forum moderation right now isn't as great as it could be though. Right now it requires an incident to happen at the time a moderator is online to get to the report before it's seen by a ton of users and blown out of proportion. This just speeds up the process overall, and gives a better watch.
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The forum moderation right now isn't as great as it could be though.
Yes, however, your suggestion would only make things worse.
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Yes, however, your suggestion would only make things worse.
Please explain how. I have yet to see anyone suggest any reason as to how it could be a disadvantage in any way.
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Please explain how. I have yet to see anyone suggest any reason as to how it could be a disadvantage in any way.
Being a server administrator doesn't mean you can be a good forum moderator.
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Don't know if I'm supposed to take a side here...but maybe SugarD has a good point! Unless all Administrators+ (all servers) get the right to lock any topic, but not do anything else with it. This would save the "Board Moderators" part being spammed, and I'm sure administrators in all the servers can draw an accurate conclusion about when a topic should be locked!
Off-topic, I need my "LFS Admin" forum rank or something so I can see the board for Administrators...I don't know who's supposed to be community banned and stuff :lol:
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Being a server administrator doesn't mean you can be a good forum moderator.
Correct, but if trusted with the ability to watch over the server and administrate users when they break the rules, then why can't they be given the chance on the forums, as well? It's just a different medium for the same job. The same, basic rules still apply across both in terms of what is said between two or more users. I'm not saying giving them the full moderation abilities...just the ones to handle reports, remove posts, and lock topics where malicious actions take place in conversations.
Off-topic, I need my "LFS Admin" forum rank or something so I can see the board for Administrators...I don't know who's supposed to be community banned and stuff :lol:
Contact the server's leaders regarding that.
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Not needed.. as simple as that.
This is what I wanted to adress with my question.
We have already brought up the question of new forum moderators before this topic was made. It was decided that the demand for new ones is simply not high enough. As far as forum reports go there is probably an average of 2-4 reports a day. If there is any demand then we should have a lot more reports. As of now, the current reports are easy for us managers or community leaders to handle alone.
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Not needed.. as simple as that.
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Thanks Sugar ;)
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The forum moderation right now isn't as great as it could be though. Right now it requires an incident to happen at the time a moderator is online to get to the report before it's seen by a ton of users and blown out of proportion. This just speeds up the process overall, and gives a better watch.
We are humans, not machines. I don't like much things and I have to fuck with them.
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Why not have Administrators+ be given moderation rights in their respective servers' boards
The skills required to be an administrator and the skills required to be a forum moderator are vastly different.
Not to mention the fact that in general internet common sense: the smaller the number of forum moderators the better.
As for moderating, as I said, having them handle the basic moderation of reports and punishing users who flame, troll, provoke, etc. would be the same as they do IG already.
Which is to say, far too much.
They are just an extra security blanket against malicious attacks on users in addition to the ranks above them.
How is that needed? This forum barely ever sees any flame or "attacks on users" and when it does the proper forum moderators can take action on the report(s) that come in.
this would be an incredibly useful way to keep situations under control that would otherwise require a report or a watchful eye to catch hours after it has already happened.
And this is exactly why giving every administrator forum mod rights isn't a good idea. What you say in the quote above has absolutely no bearing on forum moderation whatsoever. Forum moderation is entirely about reports after the fact, by the very nature of the forum structure.
If users are being trusted to control and watch over the servers against maliciousness, and generally help users outside the scope of other players, then why can't we trust them with basic moderation of the forum?
Because it's entirely different, and it's a lot harder to find and identify genuinely malicious words than to simply (for example) see a deathmatcher deathmatching ingame. Frankly, many aren't up to the task that the former presents.
It's just a different medium for the same job.
This is simply incorrect.
I'm not saying giving them the full moderation abilities...just the ones to handle reports, remove posts, and lock topics where malicious actions take place in conversations.
full moderation abilities
handle reports, remove posts, and lock topics
These are the only important ones anyway.
Also:
and lock topics where malicious actions take place in conversations.
Stifling a perfectly healthy discussion on a forum is never welcome, but it does sometimes happen when some moderator chooses to take offense for no particular reason.
I should also point out that it is not a forum moderator's place to be as proactive as you suggest. When I was a forum moderator, if someone called someone else an idiot, and the target of this statement did not report the post, then I would've assumed that this person chose not to take offense, and chose not to get all butthurt about it. I would therefore take no action. However if the report came through, it would result in an instant action on my part to edit out the offending material.
Something would've had to of been outright disgustingly and shockingly inappropriate for me to have taken any action without another report. As a general rule of thumb: "If nobody else reported it, and you (as a random forum user) wouldn't bother to go report it, leave it."
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We are humans, not machines. I don't like much things and I have to f**k with them.
What?
The skills required to be an administrator and the skills required to be a forum moderator are vastly different.
Not to mention the fact that in general internet common sense: the smaller the number of forum moderators the better.
Yes, but I said basic moderation. I'm not talking about stickying topics, enforcing signature rules, or things like that. I'm just saying the basic abilities to handle reports, lock bad topics, and remove malicious posts. That's it.
As for general internet common sense, that doesn't really apply to our community given it's size and it's heavily varying amount of time zones that users come online in. It would be spread out the same way it is with the servers, with the same amount covering each specific board.
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As for general internet common sense, that doesn't really apply to our community given it's size
How doesn't general internet common sense apply to an internet forum merely because it has a smaller userbase than others?
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How doesn't general internet common sense apply to an internet forum merely because it has a smaller userbase than others?
Because our userbase is based in different time zones, as is our administrative userbase. When it's stretched out across the different times, it would only be a small amount of moderators online at a given time.
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What?
He's saying that a administrator already has enough to do such as concentrating on RL and IG problems, instead of faffing about on the forums with trolls and doing more work.
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He's saying that a administrator already has enough to do such as concentrating on RL and IG problems, instead of faffing about on the forums with trolls and doing more work.
Thanks ;)
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When it's stretched out across the different times, it would only be a small amount of moderators online at a given time.
But that doesn't matter, forum moderators don't have to be there at the time of incident. They can move in after the fact within the day and deal with it then.
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We may not need a new team, but we need the forum moderators to be updated.
For instance, SA:MP Ideas (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?board=81.0) still has tiderman (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=summary;u=1040) as one of its moderators, even though he left Argonath half a year ago.
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We may not need a new team, but we need the forum moderators to be updated.
For instance, SA:MP Ideas (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?board=81.0) still has tiderman (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=summary;u=1040) as one of its moderators, even though he left Argonath half a year ago.
Exactly why I think Board Profiles should be used to handle this. Board Moderators are so easily outdated, and due to the way our community hires people to moderate boards, it's useless for us to use this older method.
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Hi Fellas,
Write down a list of ideas or changes that you think would be appropriate. This way we may get some ideas put forward.
Regards, DellStorm
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Hi Fellas,
Write down a list of ideas or changes that you think would be appropriate. This way we may get some ideas put forward.
Regards, DellStorm
Board Profiles for appropriate ranks for moderating boards instead of using "Board Moderators" so the access to moderation rights is given on specific boards based by rank instead of user account, so that removal or addition of a rank to a user automatically grants or removes the rights to moderate on those boards to prevent the list from becoming outdated.
I can provide examples from ARFD forums, as needed.
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Simply hire new Moderators to take care of each section..
I will provide an example tomorrow.
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Simply hire new Moderators to take care of each section..
I will provide an example tomorrow.
Then we get the same, outdated list we've always had, and as people become active and go inactive, we get the same, exact issues. Our current methods aren't exactly the most efficient.
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Hi Fellas,
Write down a list of ideas or changes that you think would be appropriate. This way we may get some ideas put forward.
Regards, DellStorm
Hire new forum mods. Fire the inactive ones.
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Then we get the same, outdated list we've always had, and as people become active and go inactive, we get the same, exact issues. Our current methods aren't exactly the most efficient.
That exact same statements applies to the servers too.
Hire only people who are active.
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The demand for new forum moderators isn't high enough, therefore new ones aren't being added. We already explained that. It doesn't really matter if someone like Tiderman is inactive because he, or any new forum moderator wouldn't have anything to do at this time anyway. Now it's pretty much just for show, really.
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The demand for new forum moderators isn't high enough, therefore new ones aren't being added. We already explained that. It doesn't really matter if someone like Tiderman is inactive because he, or any new forum moderator wouldn't have anything to do at this time anyway. Now it's pretty much just for show, really.
Not everyone does it for show.
Also some moderators of today don't know how to handle in several situations.
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Not everyone does it for show.
Also some moderators of today don't know how to handle in several situations.
Agreed.
Besides, why would you only keep their names for show, even if you feel it's "not needed" to have them? That makes no sense, and it makes those with rights feel as if someone is already able to deal with the reports in that section, so they ignore them. If you really want to make Moderator presence known, do what Crook said two posts back and fire the inactive ones and hire new ones to replace them so that when users break the rules, they are caught and become aware that someone is watching. Right now most people think there are very few people to catch stuff happen.
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The demand for new forum moderators isn't high enough, therefore new ones aren't being added. We already explained that. It doesn't really matter if someone like Tiderman is inactive because he, or any new forum moderator wouldn't have anything to do at this time anyway. Now it's pretty much just for show, really.
Then what is the whole point in people like tiderman keeping their Forum Moderator status when we have other individuals in this community who can fill in their roles well, or even better than the previous ones?
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Um go and check Speakerbox. Nobody is following the Speakerbox rules because I resigned from moderating it and nobody bothers to learn the rules and enforce them.
New forum mods are needed.
To the normal players, unfortunately that means the mods will be sourced from the current admin team and not from the general public. This is how it's happened twice in the past and I can only assume it will happen that way in the future, so don't get your hopes up about getting into any moderator positions.
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Not really needed.
As for the idea of administrators being forum moderators, don't even go there. Some topics have in-game administrators in them who blab words to other members, and request the topic to be locked when something is said back (not mentioning any names here). If the in-game moderator requests the lock, do you think they're not going to lock the topic? No, of course not. Like others have said, it is completly different from in-game moderating.
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I don't see any need for more forum staff. We receive several reports from forum members each day and they all get dealt with by the existing team very quickly, there are never more than one or two active reports and most of the time there are none.
When I have time I will go through the existing board moderators and other forum staff and clear out the inactive ones, but it is not a priority and they will not necessarily be replaced.
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Then what is the whole point in people like tiderman keeping their Forum Moderator status when we have other individuals in this community who can fill in their roles well, or even better than the previous ones?
There is no point. Like mentioned above we could remove Tiderman (for instance) and not replace him with anyone. It wouldn't make any difference at this point. When there is actual need for it it will be done. It's all about supply and demand.
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To the normal players, unfortunately that means the mods will be sourced from the current admin team and not from the general public. This is how it's happened twice in the past and I can only assume it will happen that way in the future, so don't get your hopes up about getting into any moderator positions.
This is one of many reasons why I still say Administrators+ should be handling this.
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This is one of many reasons why I still say Administrators+ should be handling this.
There should be forum moderator applications too :)
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Thanks for all the input, as Kojak has stated there is no need, this topic can be locked.
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Agreed Forum Team is Enough for Now
Locked