Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: JDC on May 02, 2012, 01:20:36 pm
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Hello there.
I have decided to write this topic not simply because I wanted to write something, but also because I want to give players outside the team an insight into the Administration of Argonath (as much as I could without leaking anything that is not supposed to be leaked), how we play, and how we work.
I hope this would give them some semblance of what it is like to be an admin, without having to experience it themselves. I also hope future / current SA:MP Moderator applicants would read this and consider if the position they will apply / are applying for is one they can live up to and fulfill with proper capability. If they decide they are fit to fulfill the role and go on to a good career, then I am happy for them.
Lastly, I hope the new players who read this get a factual insight of what admins actually are, before their minds are clouded by false rumors from certain unscrupulous individuals. If anyone wants to post false bullshit blackpainting this topic or the admin team, then press the logout button on your screen.
This is not a thread designed to falsely glorify or demonize the Argonath Administration... it is one meant to give an insight based on experiences. I hope you enjoy reading.
What are admins and how do people see them?
Admins. Also known as Moderators, Administrators, Developers, Managers, and Community Leaders (although I will only write about the first two as they are the only ones I have experience with). They work for the Argonath Owners in maintaining order on the server and the community.
Admins on Argonath are viewed in a variety of different ways, both positive and negative. Some of them are based on fact, while others are based on falsit, hatred, and paranoia.
Many people see Argonath admins as helpers. They aid new players in getting started (which non-admin veterans and regulars can as well, although admins have an edge of some kind in the business due to their rank) on the server, becoming the future players and admins (and occasionally, rulebreakers and ban evaders, for those who deviate from our rules and teachings) of Argonath.
Unfortunately, some people carry this view too far (too much of most things is not good), to the point where they expect admins to cover every shit they make on the server and change their diapers like a nanny, one point of view that has pissed off several notable characters, including Aragorn.
Others see admins as sources of money, cheap instant transportation, and other sorts of conveniences. While we do what we can to help players, some people take it for granted to the point of using us, which is no longer good. Obviously, we will deal with such actions using the appropriate sanctions. However, we are willing to reward money to players as well, in the form of events, paydays, and lottos (the latter two being in the Managers'+ case). Balance is essential in many things, including our administration; a good admin can rid the server of rulebreakers, but a better admin also knows how to reward instead of just punishing. I myself carried out less tolerance for rulebreaking and added punishment for deserving offenders without any hesitation, although I balanced my strict methods with hosting events (several new and original ones) which many players enjoy (and occasionally get rich from).
Admins are also viewed as leaders, which is true; part of an admin's job is to lead by example (phrase courtesy of Jcstodds), to be an Argonath player which others can emulate.
Some others view admins as defenders and protectors. While this is true and factual, others view it in a false light by thinking our primary purpose is to respond to /report. False... our primary purpose is not to kick / ban some hacker or some rulebreaker who deathmatched you and stole your weed, but rather something else.
Certain others view the administration as a status symbol, a means of power. While being part of the administration carries a certain amount of status for those who work in it, we are supposed to use our power and influence for the better, as a shield to protect Argonath and as a sword to fight the things (and individuals) which threaten it. Despite our privileges, admins are not gods, we do not take up our roles merely to exalt ourselves; we join the team to exalt the community and its standards by helping it. We are tasked to uphold the Argonath Vision.
What is the admin job, actually? Admins are not only helpers, rule enforcers, protectors, or defenders; we are all of them. Our primary purpose as administration is to help the Argonath community, and part of it is protecting the community and players. We do not protect only from outside threats (server crashers, deathmatchers, hackers, flamers, false ideas, etc), but we also protect players from themselves when necessary, by maintaining the peace on the server. If somebody cannot respect other people's gameplay and sees a need to ruin it by breaking our rules, it is our duty to make him obey, or remove him from our server / community.
What is it like to become an admin?
When you see your name on the list of players who are accepted for Administration roles as Server Moderators, you feel happy and/or excited. Of course, getting into the administration is an achievement itself, meaning you were chosen from a long list of players as one of those who are seen as deserving to help protect and defend Argonath.
Sooner or later, some Community Leader / Manager will contact you and give you a basic briefing of what you are supposed to do. You are then granted access to the Moderators' boards, which contains things not meant to be known here, but things which Moderators need to know in order to do a good job as future Administrators.
When you enter the game, the experience changes somehow. You find that you now have the power to help protect the server (in a very direct way) from rulebreakers, moaners, and all other sorts of folk we do not wish to see here. People send you congratulations, in some cases after you give your first warn / kick. When you are promoted to the rank of Server Administrator, you might experience it again after you lose your "ban virginity" (aka giving your first ban). The experience in itself resembles a rite of passage, and one that feels good (unless your emotional mechanism is damaged and/or dysfunctional).
You encounter senior Moderators, Administrators, Managers, and Leaders, all willing to help you learn what is needed for a good career as an admin. You become part of a team (with the unofficial nickname "the A-Team", A standing for 'admin') that is dedicated to helping and protecting Argonath. You gain more influence, and more players look up to you, in spite of those undesirable individuals who take our administration's work for granted or outright despise it.
There can't be a downside to being an admin, right?
Wrong. Admins, in spite of being appointed into their roles, are not paid for their work, nor are they given privileges such as a new house / car for promotions and such. Like other players, we have to work for our assets as well.
The admin job can get stressful as well, since at some point the toll of working without any compensation while being attacked catches up to you. While your actions help the server, other players will point fingers at you, make false accusations (i.e: "Abuser admin! I report you to Managers!"... of course, assuming you are actually not an abusive admin), and you get tired of dealing with rulebreaking that seems to pop up everywhere regardless of how many times you have tried to deal with it.
One or more of your colleagues may stray from Argonath's intended path for its administration and community, also known as "rogue admins". More than one admin has been removed for this, the most notable reasons being the disillusionment with the status of the community, the abuse of power, lack of activity, lack of productivity, or a combination of one or more of the previously mentioned factors. Seeing one of your colleagues turn into the same individuals you swore to defend Argonath from is different from simply seeing a random rulebreaker enter the server and try to deathmatch / flame the shit out of some player.
Being an admin is a thankless job, since we give more than what we get from it. A human being can only endure so much stress. Proof of this are the individuals who, over the years, have left our administration because the job became tiring, having lost the zest they once had.
However...
If that is the case, why have some admins been working for years?
Despite not being compensated (in terms of assets), there are things you can learn and experience as an admin that make you want to stay in the team and continue serving the community.
I will give some examples... these are my reasons for staying in the team, and I
Some admins are empowered by loyalty and ideology. These sort of admins believe in Argonath's vision, seeing what it has done to make the community a big success with thousands of players, and some of these out to preserve the Argonath spirit and community that makes it such a good place (despite imperfections) for everyone.
Other admins are empowered by service. By giving back something to the community, they receive a certain satisfaction that enables them to continue serving it despite all the downsides I have mentioned above. Working without pay is not exactly most people's cups of tea, but there are also individuals who love giving service for others in a variety of ways, some of which are Argonath admins.
Another kind of admins are those who appreciate all the small things and lessons they learn while serving as an admin. A simple "Thank you! :D" from a new player who you helped to get started on the server or a player whose problems (i.e: bug, deathmatcher, etc) is already enough to make them feel that they did their job of helping someone.
Certain other reasons may exist; there can be as many reasons as there are admins, and I have only discussed what I saw as mine.
I would say more, but there are certain topics which I feel myself too inexperienced (despite serving for 3 years, I still have more to learn as an admin) to touch them, or they are simply out of my scope to discuss. Some of them I would leave to people such as Gandalf and Aragorn, who know how to tell stories about Argonath history and events much better than I do.
The next time you wonder if admins are actually doing their job, or contemplate on moaning on a certain admin, think of what the server will be like without them. Not all the punishments we give out for the purpose of protecting other players are shown on screen in big red text.
Good day, and happy playing.
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I will read this soon enough but before I read it I can comment that I know too much about being admin in here and that is one of the reasons why I am not one anymore :)
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Anyone wanna summarize this for the lazy-team?D:
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Anyone wanna summarize this for the lazy-team?D:
admins are doing their jobs okay and they are stressed enuff for others to moan on them and make their job harder.
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This topic could we great and it can be, if others won't disagree or will start to moan like they already do, be aware.
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What a coincidence.
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For the tl;dr'ers:
- All /admins are there to help, but not for things that are easily solved without them
- We're human, so obviously can't be perfect all the time
- Admins are part of a team (which is pretty cool)
- Being an /admin can be stressful sometimes, so if we lose our cool, then forgive us! We get a lot of questions/requests, and sometimes it is hard to keep up
- We like being thanked...a lot of times we don't get any, but any time someone goes "Thanks" (not sarcastically), it makes our day worth it!
Some people think that becoming an /admin is for status...whilst other people think it is a position of helping, and keeping Argonath secure.
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This topic could we great and it can be, if others won't disagree or will start to moan like they already do, be aware.
>This topic could we great and it can be
what
>if others won't disagree or will start to moan like they already do
I will read this soon enough but before I read it I can comment that I know too much about being admin in here and that is one of the reasons why I am not one anymore :)
Anyone wanna summarize this for the lazy-team?D:
Where's someone complaining? Jesus Christ you made little to no sense at all, please sober up.
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Where's someone complaining? Jesus Christ you made little to no sense at all, please sober up.
I do not understand your meaning. Could you explain?
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The life as an admin is not able to describe in words to make "outsiders" understand. A life as an administrator is something you must experience in order to understand and acknowledge. I summed up for this duty to support Argonath RPG as a community and the player it brings and that is what I attempt to do. If that is not enough for you I am sorry I am unable to provide you the support you request.
Summarised the topic for the ones who do not possess the energy to read it.
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Being an Admin from pretty much the start of Argonath(only real time i have never been an admin or mod was the first 2 weeks of argoanth) I can say that the OP is pretty much it.
Being an admin is a Stressful job and if someone was to stay its not is stright up wRONg. And you might be wondering why i still do it after all these years (almost 6 years total on and off from inactivity). It's because I love Argonath, I love this community and i want to do anything to protect it. I have made many friends here and that i would do anything for them.
RON, Ronnel, And Agent are the reason i am still here, i share their vision of what they want argoanth to be. I can remember back in 2006/2007 my first year of argonath i have many great memorys of the community and i want to continue this memorys by creating new ones today.
I will end with this a quote from ALL the founding memebers of argonath.
"Respect our Players"
No matter if they are a new, old, mod, Admin, manager, Community leader or owner we are all players in Argonath, so give your respect to each other they way you want to be respected YOURSELF
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No matter if they are a new, old, mod, Admin, manager, Community leader or owner we are all players in Argonath, so give your respect to each other they way you want to be respected YOURSELF
QFT.
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all this over gta sa
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all this over gta sa
Wrong. This is all over the entire community. JDC just chose to post it in one of the most heavily-trafficked boards so more people would see it.
And you might be wondering why i still do it after all these years...It's because I love Argonath, I love this community and i want to do anything to protect it.
And that is exactly why you will always continue to do so successfully as long as you choose to keep the job. That is by far one of the best quotes regarding the subject I've ever seen, and I couldn't agree more, sharing the same opinion you do.
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Wrong. This is all over the entire community. JDC just chose to post it in one of the most heavily-trafficked boards so more people would see it.
This board comes in 5th sir
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What a coincidence.
:rofl:
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This board comes in 5th sir
I mean in terms of server general discussion boards.
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A player's experience. =) Pun intended.
For the tl;dr'ers:
- All /admins are there to help, but not for things that are easily solved without them
- We're human, so obviously can't be perfect all the time
- Admins are part of a team (which is pretty cool)
- Being an /admin can be stressful sometimes, so if we lose our cool, then forgive us! We get a lot of questions/requests, and sometimes it is hard to keep up
- We like being thanked...a lot of times we don't get any, but any time someone goes "Thanks" (not sarcastically), it makes our day worth it!
Some people think that becoming an /admin is for status...whilst other people think it is a position of helping, and keeping Argonath secure.
If your single post represents the whole team, please convey this message.
There may be personal views, opinions of which commonly arise from experiences that are mismanaged or misinterpreted by numerous sides and or where someone feels he is not getting sufficient fairness or decent investigation into a complaint and or concerns of which are perfectly good arguments / objections - something admins should look to address.
Examples:
"I'm an Admin and I said its abuse" "Disobeying administration" "Comenting"
Some (Admins) refuse to discuss issues and simply say [email protected].
Issues arising from this approach can lead to a lack of trust for a particular admin, and or a sense of an admin being unreliable as a source of help or guidance.
Whilst originally the person may simply not understand or seeks to try sort out the situation post warn/kick or try explaining actions in an attempt of reconciliation or generally aiding the admin.
Now admins may not have the time to immediately discuss the issue however it takes less time / effort rather than to warn constantly or seek revenge than it is to say "Ok, I'm busy atm. Can we settle this later, I will be all yours."
"f**kING HELP ME ADMINS'! ID 69 NOOB DM ME"
A victim may do something arising from someone else's provocations or rule breakings - the victim is punished immediately whilst his complaint may just go unnoticed because he flamed.
Issues arising from this may include the same as above and in addition / similarly may lead to where in future the person avoiding reporting or any contact where as a personal attack on them has been done or on another or they feel something has gone down and it's totally not ok, they may not like the idea of a report or trying to raise an issue leading them to be silenced.
The administrators who have looked to deal with the above issues usually are noticeable and adored.
Post Script: With respect, you do not often see administration thanking players who do good, if only for themselves it still has an impact on the community as a whole. Lottos' / Events / Paydays should not be used for to thank players. Admins would not expect money from players.
Post Merge: May 04, 2012, 04:13:15 am
No matter if they are a new, old, mod, Admin, manager, Community leader or owner we are all players in Argonath, so give your respect to each other they way you want to be respected YOURSELF
This is relevant to my interests and relates to the point in my above post.
Post Merge: May 04, 2012, 04:15:02 am
This topic could we great and it can be, if others won't disagree or will start to moan like they already do, be aware.
Why make a thread in a mostly discussion based forum and something that relates to multiple people and not expect feedback? (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=83057.0)
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I do not understand your meaning. Could you explain?
Please check the other part of post instead of reading your name being quoted next time.
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Please check the other part of post instead of reading your name being quoted next time.
Thanks for nothing.
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Thanks for nothing.
Tomer said people would disagree and moan. You didn't nor the other person that was quoted. So Kvinlan quoted yous two in reply to Tomer showing him that people will not disagree or moan.
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Well wroten JDC , anyway ive never told some admin is abuser ive never got abused by any admin... I think they are doing good job. But most of criminals get abused ( or they say that they are ).
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Well wroten JDC , anyway ive never told some admin is abuser ive never got abused by any admin... I think they are doing good job. But most of criminals get abused ( or they say that they are ).
Stop asslicking, we get it you want to be an admin.
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Tomer said people would disagree and moan. You didn't nor the other person that was quoted. So Kvinlan quoted yous two in reply to Tomer showing him that people will not disagree or moan.
Thanks for explanation.
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Intresting to see the view of an admin on Argonath, thanks for sharing.
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Stop asslicking, we get it you want to be an admin.
Stop flaming.
Two wrongs don't make a right. You know that.
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Stop flaming.
Two wrongs don't make a right. You know that.
(http://i.qkme.me/353mtc.jpg)
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Aldo, that attitude is only pushing things towards negativity farther. It's not funny at all, so cut it out.
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Aldo, it's enough. Verbal warning given to you. Continue that shit attitude and heavier punishments will follow.
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It's stressful yes, but I do it for the sake of the community and helping create a better atmosphere for players to have fun in. I like having the satisfaction knowing that I helped someone who actually appreciates it rather then dealing with rulebreaking moaners all day who have nothing better to do then ruin other peoples day. However, you'll be amazed after a few stressful hours how much a "Thank You" truly means.
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I've got some experience in ''online'' army's etc, as a officer etc (quite big ones).
The stress can piss someone off. That's one of the reasons I left those army's and went to Argonath, to relax. Still. I'm a to big asshole now to convince somebody/myself to do it again, because I'm scared to make big mistakes.
The vision of Argonath is to have fun, not to be the richest asshole in the game. That's how I get the vision in my sight.
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It's stressful yes, but I do it for the sake of the community and helping create a better atmosphere for players to have fun in. I like having the satisfaction knowing that I helped someone who actually appreciates it rather then dealing with rulebreaking moaners all day who have nothing better to do then ruin other peoples day. However, you'll be amazed after a few stressful hours how much a "Thank You" truly means.
You're not the only one, Sometimes admins ruin player's day too, or week.
The vision of Argonath is to have fun, not to be the richest asshole in the game. That's how I get the vision in my sight.
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tl;dr'ers:
that
But i did read Ben his post. ;)
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Advancely you get used to say ''cheers'', or ''thanks'' to a admin. Because they aren't 100% in their mind (sorry) (some, not all -looks to 70% of the team-). It is still the thing that makes the logs funny, and the game itself funnier. For example having a nice dicussion (a normal one), it is just nice to be in that discussion then).
It's one of the special things in Argonath, the Admin team.
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You're not the only one, Sometimes admins ruin player's day too, or week.
Players ruin their own days or weeks. We admins just see to the enforcement of rules on the server.
Your post is just like saying we ruined a hacker's day by banning him for hacks.
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Same story as 2 brothers who just had a fight and start crying at daddy:
Brother 1: Dad, he hitted me !
Brother 2: You sayed I was stupid
Brother 1: I DIDN'T SAY THAT
Brother 2: YOU DID
Continue like that for 30.
If you do something (did something myself, had to calm myself, sayed something stupid about our new president :D), fucking accept it and improve it. Don't wan't to do it, the door..