Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:VC => VC:MP - Vice City Multiplayer => VC:MP General => Topic started by: freestyle_Shadow on May 29, 2012, 08:11:11 pm
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Hello, my nickname is [WS]Shadow, and I am a regular player of VC:MP. After few ideas, and the glitch turnout, I myself decided to let owners know what people think. After removing fastswitching and jumpswitching, I really do not see the point of CQB, where skill will be nothing. Skill was proven through those so called "bugs" which are not bugs. If you notice, that's how Vice City, the GTA is builded. Finally, the point where I want to come, is that I myself, and probably some other players of Argonath VC:MP, want that President and Prime Minister pay a visit in Vice City, so we can sort out all server problems, in a polite and regular way.
I am not the only one wanting this, but in my opinion you cannot state rules by not knowing how something works. So, I please the owners, if they can take a trip to Vice City, for 3-4 days, so we can sort out server problems.
Thanks for attention,
VCPD Senior Officer, Shadow
WS Member, Shadow
VCPD Academy Manager, Shadow.
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This was already discussed awhile ago and resolved, yet some decided to go against the statements of the Server Owners anyway. This is not going to change as Argonath RPG's stance on it has been clear for quite some time.
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I am sorry, but you didn't get the point. My point was that I want, if possible, that owners can take a trip to Vice City, so rules can be set better. So no more shitstorms, and everybody happy. That's all I want, and I used fastswitch as an example. I do not moan that I cannot live without fastswitch, indeed, I do not like that it got disabled, yet I wish to see the owners, if possible and not busy, to pay a visit to VC:MP.
Do not misunderstand please :)
Kind greetings, Shadow
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If you want them to visit Vice City, using glitches as a reason or example might not be the best idea. I would recommend you have them visit for other reasons relating to your idea that are a bit less controversial. :)
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You didn't get it again. I will have to bold it out, seems. I please them to visit Argonath VC:MP few times, so rules can be enforced better, ideas could be done with owners knowledge ( so they see both how it is and what it is about ) and I see it as a better functionallity, less shitstorms, less spamfights, less inefifciency.
So I please them once again to visit ( NOT FOR GLITCHES / BUGS ) so Argonath VC:MP can develop on the good way, with more efficiency.
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lol this is getting quite annoying already
4 years, and NOW - some people get mad about 'glitching' which isn't even glitching, in order to try and make combat easier for themselves. How come - how come, nobody moaned about it during the whole past, it started not a long time ago? In fact, we're on a roleplay server, so why would you give a shit about how the combat is, if it was like that for a few years already?
It's those kind of people; those kind of people who manage to fail at everything due to their own fault, and try finding rules which can be used as a weapon, then turn that weapon against other people, only due to their mood. This can be used in variety of ways - you kill me in combat? I'll say how you fight, is glitching and using bugs, since people don't fight like that in single player! What, you took my parked car? I'll report you for car jacking! What, I don't like you and you want to join my tea party? Gtfo, you're ruining my roleplay!
Now to be honest, I don't really care about how the combat looks like. The only reason why I am annoyed, is because we all - the small community of VCMP - got bullied by some people who are considered to be veterans and good roleplayers, as they turned rules - something which is meant to help the game expand, to solve problems - against us, creating more problems. Those people can't just enjoy the game. Because they are too busy complaining about everything they don't like.
Now gandalf, aragorn, whatever your names are. The truth is, you are taking decisions on nothing you know about, supporting those kind of players, just cause they are more formal at whining about things. Glitching, using bugs to advantage? That's how they portray it, for us it's regular gameplay, and nobody except for them ever whined about. If they don't like how combat is, they don't need to participate in combat situations.
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In fact, we're on a roleplay server, so why would you give a shit about how the combat is
Probably one of the most ironic points regarding this thread.
For the record, I personally dislike fast switch and jump switch being disabled as well. However, we as members of the Argonath community had been warned about this issue numerous times before, and it seems that the owners believe their advice has fallen on deaf ears, hence the stricter sanctions.
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The only reason why I am annoyed, is because we all - the small community of VCMP - got bullied by some people who are considered to be veterans and good roleplayers, as they turned rules - something which is meant to help the game expand, to solve problems - against us, creating more problems.
Wrong. It is because some decided to take advantage of a situation when the Server Owners were too busy to keep a close eye on the server, and they tried to justify and make it "allowed" to do certain things that are against the Community Rules, which the server cannot override. It is those "veterans" you speak of that got sick of it. It just hasn't been a big deal until recently, because until recently, nothing was done about it. If you want to point fingers, it's not going to help anything. If you yourself say that we shouldn't be worried about combat glitching, then why are you trying to blame someone else for getting attention on it? Just go RP and have fun. As long as people follow the rules while having a good time, then we have no issues. ;)
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Wrong. It is because some decided to take advantage of a situation when the Server Owners were too busy to keep a close eye on the server, and they tried to justify and make it "allowed" to do certain things that are against the Community Rules, which the server cannot override. It is those "veterans" you speak of that got sick of it. It just hasn't been a big deal until recently, because until recently, nothing was done about it. If you want to point fingers, it's not going to help anything. If you yourself say that we shouldn't be worried about combat glitching, then why are you trying to blame someone else for getting attention on it? Just go RP and have fun. As long as people follow the rules while having a good time, then we have no issues. ;)
Well then you're the one who's wrong here. Fastswitch and jumpswitch are a part of VCMP. They have been made on purpose, so Vice City would get more competitive, not just a luck game. Right now, without those ''glitches'' as you like to refer to them, combat is based on standing in one place and shooting, without an ability to move out of the way fast. Vice City's atmosphere is being ruined by these ''sanctions'', and yes, the owners should come to Vice City, just to get an idea of how things work on this client. I realize what the owners were thinking when they enforced their rules, since they probably had an idea it can be the same as SAMP. Well, the answer is no, It can't be same. Why? Come and see for yourself.
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I hate big posts. These actions now:
Derailed the game-play.
Abused players having skills, by stating that those were the bugs.
EAF always train their members, in-game or at forum. Time was spent on picking up the best among the good. If others had taken these steps and stopped to create controversies, we shouldn't have to seen this day. People come for fun on VCMP servers after long hard day in real life. Don't ruin their time please.
Learn shooting, accept that you are noobs even after playing for so many years...
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It's true that owners are rather detached to the world of VCMP, and in my opinion they're going by their knowledge of MTAVC 4 or 5 years ago. This will never work as VCMP is unique, in its gameplay and community. It's not like MTAVC, SAMP, or any other multiplayer client. Some players from other servers fail to understand this concept.
The DM gamemode is hugely popular in VCMP for a reason. This reason is because of such techniques that improve the skill involved. Players learn and perfect techniques such as Fast switch and Jump switch that make them better fighters and clearly establishes the pros from the newbs. Some people don't like this fact, and instead of learning how to fight themselves, they choose to complain and whine. It's a shame that very few players have to ruin it for the majority.
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This fighting style that involved "bugs", is used by all VC-MP players, and is unique amongst all GTA's. You can't just take it away. I know it has some advantage, but that requires practice, and after something like 1-2 weeks not more, you're becoming a pretty good player.
I strongly support to bring back Fast switch and Jump switch.
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This fighting style that involved "bugs", is used by all VC-MP players, and is unique amongst all GTA's. You can't just take it away. I know it has some advantage, but that requires practice, and after something like 1-2 weeks not more, you're becoming a pretty good player.
I strongly support to bring back Fast switch and Jump switch.
It took me 1 day to have a grasp on VCMPs combat when I really wanted to know instead of just M4'ing.
Also +1337 to Klaus' post :bow:
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It's true that owners are rather detached to the world of VCMP, and in my opinion they're going by their knowledge of MTAVC 4 or 5 years ago. This will never work as VCMP is unique, in its gameplay and community. It's not like MTAVC, SAMP, or any other multiplayer client. Some players from other servers fail to understand this concept.
The DM gamemode is hugely popular in VCMP for a reason. This reason is because of such techniques that improve the skill involved. Players learn and perfect techniques such as Fast switch and Jump switch that make them better fighters and clearly establishes the pros from the newbs. Some people don't like this fact, and instead of learning how to fight themselves, they choose to complain and whine. It's a shame that very few players have to ruin it for the majority.
1. MTA:VC never had any of these issues.
2. This is not a DM server, so the relevance of saying that the techniques "improve skills" has absolutely nothing to do with our community.
Well then you're the one who's wrong here. Fastswitch and jumpswitch are a part of VCMP. They have been made on purpose, so Vice City would get more competitive, not just a luck game. Right now, without those ''glitches'' as you like to refer to them, combat is based on standing in one place and shooting, without an ability to move out of the way fast. Vice City's atmosphere is being ruined by these ''sanctions'', and yes, the owners should come to Vice City, just to get an idea of how things work on this client. I realize what the owners were thinking when they enforced their rules, since they probably had an idea it can be the same as SAMP. Well, the answer is no, It can't be same. Why? Come and see for yourself.
I'm not saying the Server Owners shouldn't come here. I agree that they should. That doesn't mean some of the changes that recently happened weren't justified, though.
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I please them to visit Argonath VC:MP few times, so rules can be enforced better
If this is the case why are the rules not being enforced as they should be?
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I still remember arresting suspects back in those days.
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SugarD, stop trying to act smart while in fact you know nothing about VCMP's fighting style or VCMP in general.
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We only take action or check if there is a situation where it seems the general server rules are broken.
As the admin team requested a rule book on which glitches/bug using is allowed and which is not, the only way to stop was ensuring all glitching is disallowed.
That this stopped techniques which were allowed in the past is the unfortunate result of players not being able to follow simple rules. If the players, and that fully includes the management of VC:MP, show that they can respect the rules of Argonath RPG, we can discuss if this can be used.
As long as I see in chatlogs disrespect to owners, giving zero attention to helping new players and the attitude that some players have which is more fitting to Paruni as to Argonath RPG, no chance of this coming back.
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SugarD, stop trying to act smart while in fact you know nothing about VCMP's fighting style or VCMP in general.
chill out, saying that won't change his way of seeing things, the communication is head-to-wall.
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SugarD, stop trying to act smart while in fact you know nothing about VCMP's fighting style or VCMP in general.
VC:MP's fighting style has nothing to do with this. As Gandalf even said, fighting belongs in our sister community, not here.
chill out, saying that won't change his way of seeing things, the communication is head-to-wall.
Agreed. What people are seeing from me is "oh, he's trying to ruin our server". What they don't realize is I'm trying to help these guys out, not ruin their fun. Some have just gotten so used to the way things became here that the change is in-sighting fear and making them think that all their abilities are being taken away.
It never should have gotten to this point to begin with. We are all here to have fun so we can have a good time. For some, what has happened here was preventing that. I'm sure you, the users who disagree with me, and I, both don't want to see that. We may have differing views, but we all know something was wrong here. We should be working together to fix things, not arguing over it. I know I'm not the only one either who is seeing these problems from either side of the argument.
Let us work towards a better server, and a better community, from this point forward. If those who wish to still do the things Gandalf mentioned continue to do so, then they will have what's coming to them. For the rest of us, it is no longer a worry as we can now focus on having fun again. :)
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The notion that the VC:MP server should allow glitches because of being in a predominantly deathmatch environment is a rather null point. Hundreds of deathmatch servers exist across any GTA multiplayer modification, as that's basically the nature of the game itself. However, Argonath is a roleplay community -- and let me stress that again -- community. As such, we do not govern ourselves according to the mod's norm, but according to the community's norm.
Moreover, these changes to the rules progressively detach the server from that community. With detachment comes separation, and with separation comes more conflict. The server becomes less appealing to players within even the same community, and over time, the server evolves into something beyond recognition as an Argonath server. Let me also stress that we are a roleplay community, and that glitching and fast switch do not (or at least, should not) make or break a roleplay scenario.
EDIT: It would be best for everyone here to gain a sense of point of view. Imagine owning a server and having a (relatively) complex administrative layout. You appoint people you trust entirely to govern the server according to your principles, only to discover that the rules are being bent to allow not only fast switch (which is not an issue in and of itself), but even wallglitching.
Likewise, the owners should imagine that, as regular players, these changes are being made too drastically and too quickly for anyone to enjoy them, and that the regular players on that server probably would outlash. However, over time, it would become less of an issue as people learn how to play the game without having to rely on features that were injected into the client, or glitches that are unnatural for the game.
And one last word -- if your first issue with this is "unskilled" players being able to shoot you, maybe you should (once again) pay more attention to the roleplaying aspect of the server and teaching them to play along.
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The notion that the VC:MP server should allow glitches because of being in a predominantly deathmatch environment is a rather null point. Hundreds of deathmatch servers exist across any GTA multiplayer modification, as that's basically the nature of the game itself. However, Argonath is a roleplay community -- and let me stress that again -- community. As such, we do not govern ourselves according to the mod's norm, but according to the community's norm.
Moreover, these changes to the rules progressively detach the server from that community. With detachment comes separation, and with separation comes more conflict. The server becomes less appealing to players within even the same community, and over time, the server evolves into something beyond recognition as an Argonath server. Let me also stress that we are a roleplay community, and that glitching and fast switch do not (or at least, should not) make or break a roleplay scenario.
EDIT: It would be best for everyone here to gain a sense of point of view. Imagine owning a server and having a (relatively) complex administrative layout. You appoint people you trust entirely to govern the server according to your principles, only to discover that the rules are being bent to allow not only fast switch (which is not an issue in and of itself), but even wallglitching.
Likewise, the owners should imagine that, as regular players, these changes are being made too drastically and too quickly for anyone to enjoy them, and that the regular players on that server probably would outlash. However, over time, it would become less of an issue as people learn how to play the game without having to rely on features that were injected into the client, or glitches that are unnatural for the game.
And one last word -- if your first issue with this is "unskilled" players being able to shoot you, maybe you should (once again) pay more attention to the roleplaying aspect of the server and teaching them to play along.
Very well said!
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It never should have gotten to this point to begin with. We are all here to have fun so we can have a good time. For some, what has happened here was preventing that. I'm sure you, the users who disagree with me, and I, both don't want to see that. We may have differing views, but we all know something was wrong here. We should be working together to fix things, not arguing over it. I know I'm not the only one either who is seeing these problems from either side of the argument.
Let us work towards a better server, and a better community, from this point forward. If those who wish to still do the things Gandalf mentioned continue to do so, then they will have what's coming to them. For the rest of us, it is no longer a worry as we can now focus on having fun again. :)
You are the only one who doesn't have fun cause of such a small thing - if you have such problems with shootouts, why do you participate in them? You have a false reflection of what the server is, and what the server needs to be - you think you're helping people, you think you're helping the server, but all you do is whining and annoying other people.
In fact, you guys are perfect example of what I described in my previous post
It's those kind of people; those kind of people who manage to fail at everything due to their own fault, and try finding rules which can be used as a weapon, then turn that weapon against other people, only due to their mood. This can be used in variety of ways - you kill me in combat? I'll say how you fight, is glitching and using bugs, since people don't fight like that in single player! What, you took my parked car? I'll report you for car jacking! What, I don't like you and you want to join my tea party? Gtfo, you're ruining my roleplay!
sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority, you blindly follow them no matter what, you're the kind of people who start being angry after someone writes a single fucking sentence with caps lock pressed on by mistake, just cause it's stated in the rules 'don't overuse the caps lock' ....
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You are the only one who doesn't have fun cause of such a small thing - if you have such problems with shootouts, why do you participate in them? You have a false reflection of what the server is, and what the server needs to be - you think you're helping people, you think you're helping the server, but all you do is whining and annoying other people.
In fact, you guys are perfect example of what I described in my previous post
sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority, you blindly follow them no matter what, you're the kind of people who start being angry after someone writes a single f**king sentence with caps lock pressed on by mistake, just cause it's stated in the rules 'don't overuse the caps lock' ....
1. I don't participate in shootouts. I put out fires. That does not mean I support glitching.
2. You said it yourself. Rules which were approved at the start of the server/community. These rules that are now being enforced have been from the start. Some just decided to not pay attention to them and break them anyway. You have only supported my point further with that statement.
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sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority
To be fair, these rules have been in place since before VC:MP even existed.
- Using glitches that give you an advantage over other players is strictly forbidden.
- Attempts to avoid or ignore administration punishment aren't allowed in any way.
http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/Argonath_Rules (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/Argonath_Rules)
- Glitch abuse is strictly prohibited.
- do not abuse glitches to your advantage
http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/VC:MP_Server_Rules (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/VC:MP_Server_Rules)
- Argonath administration team will devote their time primarily to keep players following the guidelines. They apply for this knowingly, and will be given rights and levels according to their devotion, ability to help out others and follow the guidelines given to them. If at any time admins feel not able to continue their devotion to admin guidelines, they are invited to resign.
http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/Argonath_Vision (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/Argonath_Vision)
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You are the only one who doesn't have fun cause of such a small thing - if you have such problems with shootouts, why do you participate in them? You have a false reflection of what the server is, and what the server needs to be - you think you're helping people, you think you're helping the server, but all you do is whining and annoying other people.
In fact, you guys are perfect example of what I described in my previous post
sticking to rules which are approved from the start of a community is good way to make sure there are no mistakes and misunderstandings and everything's fair more or less, but this just doesn't work in practice - what you're doing is trying to use rules to your advantage by ruining the game for majority, you blindly follow them no matter what, you're the kind of people who start being angry after someone writes a single f**king sentence with caps lock pressed on by mistake, just cause it's stated in the rules 'don't overuse the caps lock' ....
If you wish to blame someone, look in the mirror.
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unfortunate result of players not being able to follow simple rules.
It may be a simple rule elsewhere, but with VCMP it becomes a bigger deal.
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It may be a simple rule elsewhere, but with VCMP it becomes a bigger deal.
VC:MP rules do not override the community rules. It's the other way around. If it's such a big deal to the server, then something has been wrong since the start.
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Gandalf, that is not the point. The point is that fast switching is NOT A GLITCH!. There is a reason why developers allow it, it's because it makes combat require skills. Fast switch is intended to be part of the client inself, if you check ANY server in VCMP, it has the fast switching. Without fast switching, combat in VCMP would be just jumping around like in LU and trying your luck - it couldnt be easier..
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Gandalf, that is not the point. The point is that fast switching is NOT A GLITCH!. There is a reason why developers allow it, it's because it makes combat require skills. Fast switch is intended to be part of the client inself, if you check ANY server in VCMP, it has the fast switching. Without fast switching, combat in VCMP would be just jumping around like in LU and trying your luck - it couldnt be easier..
So now you're going to tell the Server Owners that they don't know what they are talking about in their own community, AND insult another Argonath server? I would highly suggest you think before you respond next.
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Where is the insult? I Read it 15 times, still can't find it. Are you a 5 yrs old kid?
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Fast switch, crouch switch and jump switch were never glitches.
It was just some polish tard who used the wrong word once....and they are popularly KNOWN as glitches.
Compare the fighting style with MTAVC.
Fast switch exists in MTAVC.
Everyone uses it with stubby, it is also allowed in Argonath. Though MTAVC does not have an option to disable it.
Jump Switch exists in MTAVC. People jump with shotguns all the time.
Why should it be disabled in VCMP?
As I said earlier, these are not glitches. They are a simple combination of buttons which work out better than standing on a spot and spraying bullets.
After disabling Fastswitch and Jumpswitch in VCMP....the fighting possibilities are less than MTAVC. That aint fair.
Though as always we will evolve with this change. After some time we would learn to live with it.
Here are some probable outcomes:
I expect people to buy Spazs(Combat shotguns) and M60s to stay alive. Streets are gonna be loaded with military grade weapons.
Regular cops will soon demand M4 on spawn, because they wont be able to do much with standard shotguns without bunny hops.
Fair shootouts wont be much interesting as before, so people will prefer to shoot their foes while they are typing.
New players will think their buttons are broken...omg admens me jump key not working!!!!
Yes, fighting techniques affect role-plays a lot, unless everyone is fond of RPing a dead body.
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Fast switch is not used in MTA:VC. If people use it there to gain an advantage, they shall be banned too. There is no option to disable it because no one knew it existed when the client was made, thus comparing the two makes no sense at all.
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Well said axxo.
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Wash your eyes or learn to read. I never insulted LU server. Im talking about LU client as itself.
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Wash your eyes or learn to read. I never insulted LU server. Im talking about LU client as itself.
We both know what you meant, else you wouldn't have brought it up here. You are only seeking to create a bigger argument for a reaction.
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Im just telling how it would be, obviously. LU is a great client with a great sync, especially in COMBAT when there are more than 2 people. But when it comes to duel, it's nothing more than just jumping around . Pretty much a matter of luck.
Now , by fast switch disabled, it will be exactly the same in VCMP
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Im just telling how it would be, obviously. LU is a great client with a great sync, especially in COMBAT when there are more than 2 people. But when it comes to duel, it's nothing more than just jumping around . Pretty much a matter of luck.
Now , by fast switch disabled, it will be exactly the same in VCMP
It does not take special abilities to be a good fighter in a video game, nor are good fighters needed in a RP community.
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So far I see only whining, and nobody seems to want to address my initial post on the subject.
Perhaps nobody reads, everyone just piles on their crap ?
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So far I see only whining, and nobody seems to want to address my initial post on the subject.
Perhaps nobody reads, everyone just piles on their crap ?
I already told my thoughts regarding this. Fast switch is NOT a glitch, it was INTENDED by VCMP Developers. Fast switch makes combat HARDER and makes actual USE OF SKILLS.
With having fast swithc off, VCMP combat would become nothing but jumping around and a matter of luck.
It does not take special abilities to be a good fighter in a video game, nor are good fighters needed in a RP community.
Your ridicullous statement once again prooves that you never play VCMP.
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I already told my thoughts regarding this. Fast switch is NOT a glitch, it was INTENDED by VCMP Developers. Fast switch makes combat HARDER and makes actual USE OF SKILLS.
With having fast swithc off, VCMP combat would become nothing but jumping around and a matter of luck.
Your ridicullous statement once again prooves that you never play VCMP.
Fast switch was not "intended" by VC:MP Developers. It was an optional server setting. SA:MP has the option to script in infinite health, but you don't see Argonath RPG using it either.
Luck has nothing to do with it. Fast switch was not skill...it was an advantage. If you claim that no one can fight without it, then I'd hate to see how those players claim to have skills...especially in a community that has absolutely nothing to do with deathmatching.
Instead of continuing to use me as an excuse for your anger, I invite you to answer the questions Gandalf presented, because so far I only see you attacking me for agreeing with him.
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We only take action or check if there is a situation where it seems the general server rules are broken.
As the admin team requested a rule book on which glitches/bug using is allowed and which is not, the only way to stop was ensuring all glitching is disallowed.
That this stopped techniques which were allowed in the past is the unfortunate result of players not being able to follow simple rules. If the players, and that fully includes the management of VC:MP, show that they can respect the rules of Argonath RPG, we can discuss if this can be used.
As long as I see in chatlogs disrespect to owners, giving zero attention to helping new players and the attitude that some players have which is more fitting to Paruni as to Argonath RPG, no chance of this coming back.
General server rules cannot be broken with fast/jump switch as it is no glitch.
I asked for the clarification of glitches so I, with other admins can advise players according to your vision.
Players that fail to follow simple rules are punished when I see them doing it or receive a report of such actions.
We DO respect the rules of Argonath, we know them and otherwise I would not have been given a chance to become an admin if I did not know them... You may, or may not know that I have been admin on three server of Argonath (SAMP, MTAVC, VCMP).
Anyways, all I'm saying is that VCMP's combat was based on off fast/jump switch, and roleplay can and will involve combat (not every roleplay, that's not what I mean)
This time the +1337 goes to axxo
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VCMP's combat
VCMP combat
with VCMP
in VCMP
community of VCMP
VCMPs combat
used by all VC-MP players
This is all pretty negated by:
The DM gamemode is hugely popular in VCMP
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This is all pretty negated by:
Combat is a part of the game, there's no way around it. Fast/jump "switchless" mode is about headshots and VCMP has the bug to miss the killer when you use kevlar :(
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Combat is a part of the game, there's no way around it. Fast/jump "switchless" mode is about headshots and VCMP has the bug to miss the killer when you use kevlar :(
Guess combat just got harder in roleplays then. ;)
Thinking about it, this should lead to less deathmatching from new users. You guys should be happy...
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Guess combat just got harder in roleplays then. ;)
Thinking about it, this should lead to less deathmatching from new users. You guys should be happy...
Well, if they're new, they won't even realize what fast switch is. As far as I know, we can still fire a weapon, so death matching won't drop from new users' side.
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Well, if they're new, they won't even realize what fast switch is. As far as I know, we can still fire a weapon, so death matching won't drop from new users' side.
Well the others seem to think that combat is going from skill to luck without fast-switching being implemented :lol:
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Yes, without such techniques the skill-level will drop.
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So far I see only whining, and nobody seems to want to address my initial post on the subject.
Perhaps nobody reads, everyone just piles on their crap ?
You reminded us that any form of glitch is not allowed on the server.
Okay, agreed. Rules are Rules....you decide them, we enforce them, players follow them.
You disabled some combat features to prevent glitches.
The problem is here!
Those features are not glitches. But have a huge impact on the server. Majority players dont want that change.
If those features do not conflict with the rules/vision why have they been changed?
Fast switch is not used in MTA:VC. If people use it there to gain an advantage, they shall be banned too. There is no option to disable it because no one knew it existed when the client was made, thus comparing the two makes no sense at all.
RON taught me how to fast switch. :neutral:
Are you saying that you stand still for 1 second after each shot?
MTAVC is the only multi player client for Vice City (apart from VCMP) where Argonath has a server, so it is the only comparison I have.
nor are good fighters needed in a RP community.
SWAT tactical entry. You can hear gunshots, you look up to your comrade....your brother in arms.
You wished he was a better fighter :D
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Those features are not glitches. But have a huge impact on the server. Majority players dont want that change.
If those features do not conflict with the rules/vision why have they been changed?
Well, if they're new, they won't even realize what fast switch is.
Argonath leaders will accept new rules and scripts only if they fit the vision. If any suggestion is limiting the possibility to play for new players, strives to give advantage to more experienced players, or creates a more complex rule that would make it hard to understand or follow, it will be rejected, regardless of how much support there is from the community
Using glitches that give you an advantage over other players is strictly forbidden.
A glitch is a non-documented feature that allows behaviour which is not intended by the creators* and is not caused by the script.
Refers to the game creators. Multiplayer modifications are third party, and whether intended or not, features that allow behavior not intended by the game creators still count as glitches. If the multiplayer modification were created by the same people who created the game, that definition would not apply to this situation.
Are you saying that you stand still for 1 second after each shot?
Why wouldn't I? You need time to aim so you don't hit innocent bystanders in a police shootout! ;)
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Once again a ridicullously stupid statement.
So you're saying that entering as a passanger to a car in SAMP is glitching, because original game developers did not intend it?
Are you trying to say that drive-by'eing is glitching because you couldnt do it in singleplayer?
Are you trying to say that scripted interriors are glitches because they were not made by the game developers?
THINK WHAT YOU SAY!
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Once again a ridicullously stupid statement.
So you're saying that entering as a passanger to a car in SAMP is glitching, because original game developers did not intend it?
Are you trying to say that drive-by'eing is glitching because you couldnt do it in singleplayer?
Are you trying to say that scripted interriors are glitches because they were not made by the game developers?
THINK WHAT YOU SAY!
Umm...actually...you can do all of those in single-player...
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limiting the possibility to play for new players, strives to give advantage to more experienced players, or creates a more complex rule that would make it hard to understand or follow, it will be rejected, regardless of how much support there is from the community
Fast/jump switch does not limit the possibilities for new players, nor does it give advantage to experienced ones. I've played for 4 and half years now in Argonath and still get owned by bunnyhoppers.
Of the last part; it does not make new complex rules, it all falls under one that are on the server now too.
On the part where you talked of skill, it does drop with no fast/jump switch.... in most of the cases, not all tho'.
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Argonath rules and administration policy must be followed. Glitching and all other unfair advantages are prohibited.
If you cannot handle that, leave the server.
If you are an admin who cannot follow the Owners' policies, resign your post and leave as a traitor, or start doing your job properly.
So what if I am just a Moderator? I am part of the administration team, whose goal is to implement the policies set by the Owners, and no amount of justifying wrongdoings can change that.
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You reminded us that any form of glitch is not allowed on the server.
Okay, agreed. Rules are Rules....you decide them, we enforce them, players follow them.
You disabled some combat features to prevent glitches.
The problem is here!
Those features are not glitches. But have a huge impact on the server. Majority players dont want that change.
If those features do not conflict with the rules/vision why have they been changed?
The problem is not in these. As you may know in the discussion last year they were allowed to continue.
Interesting that nobody mentions c-bugging by the way, which is also a usual technique.
The problem is that as soon as I adressed glitching being disallowed, the response of the admin team was to ask for a list of which glitches were allowed and which were not. What is now said to be ' combat techniques' were included in this list.
The rule is simple and easy to understand. No glitching in any form is allowed, and the whole team should be enforcing that instead of using glitches themselves and finding excuses. If they can agree with that, I have no problem in removing the restrictions, with the note that if the team and management resume their own usage of glitching, they will be removed again.
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The problem is not in these. As you may know in the discussion last year they were allowed to continue.
Interesting that nobody mentions c-bugging by the way, which is also a usual technique.
fast switching and c-bugging achieves the same results through two different methods.
So it would just lead to a longer post :)
If you need some consent that these techniques are not glitches, we can try and provide it.
So, the problem is...you dont want the rule-book to be very complicated.
You are trying to replace the long glitch list with a single line - "All glitches are not allowed."
As it is easier for new players to understand and comprehend.
Rather than going through a huge checklist and trying to find loopholes to gain an advantage.
Sounds fair from your point of view.
If that is the problem, please reply. So we can come to a mutual solution for this.
PS: There used to be an ignore user button on the forum, was it removed?
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fast switching and c-bugging achieves the same results through two different methods.
So it would just lead to a longer post :)
If you need some consent that these techniques are not glitches, we can try and provide it.
So, the problem is...you dont want the rule-book to be very complicated.
You are trying to replace the long glitch list with a single line - "All glitches are not allowed."
As it is easier for new players to understand and comprehend.
Rather than going through a huge checklist and trying to find loopholes to gain an advantage.
Sounds fair from your point of view.
If that is the problem, please reply. So we can come to a mutual solution for this.
PS: There used to be an ignore user button on the forum, was it removed?
My main issue is the server to be a friendly place for new and regular players alike. Regardles if they know Argonath or walk in for the first time.
The first thing I need is a clear line that the administration and management do not feel themselves exempt from any rule, and will not try to bend things in their advantage.
The next is that rules, including how to behave in combat, are clear for everyone and easy to understand for new players. If a new player can not understand the difference between a skilled fighter and a rulebreaker, there is a problem.
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fast switching and c-bugging achieves the same results through two different methods.
So it would just lead to a longer post :)
If you need some consent that these techniques are not glitches, we can try and provide it.
So, the problem is...you dont want the rule-book to be very complicated.
You are trying to replace the long glitch list with a single line - "All glitches are not allowed."
As it is easier for new players to understand and comprehend.
Rather than going through a huge checklist and trying to find loopholes to gain an advantage.
Sounds fair from your point of view.
If that is the problem, please reply. So we can come to a mutual solution for this.
It still qualifies in the same category as glitches, as it causes unfair advantage, glitch or not. Anything that can get you banned on MTA:VC is automatically bannable on VC:MP as well, since Argonath's servers exercise a uniform set of rules.
Instead of wasting long hours on explanation and elaboration, we must settle for the only acceptable solution; all glitches are prohibited, by virtue of the Argonath rules.
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Umm...actually...you can do all of those in single-player...
I would love to see you get in the car as a passanger and start drive-bying without any cheats or mods.
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Even if fast switch is a feature and not a glitch, for now it is disabled by owners' call.
Drop your arguments and repetitive statements or else we'd have nothing to look here for...
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I would love to see you get in the car as a passanger and start drive-bying without any cheats or mods.
Missions and cutscenes. In VC, you also have the taxi that takes you to failed mission start locations.
I don't know why you think drive-by'ing isn't possible in single-player. It's part of the game. You simply look to the side and shoot at the same time...
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Passenger driveby isn't even possible in single-player, let alone multiplayer. There is turret mode in some missions (Phnom Penh '86) though, so I don't see where you're getting that from.
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So here is what I want to say: After the wallglitching shitstorm ( as I played a lot this time and I am able to say this out ), Crouch Shooting was used just by newbies, then I myself and other players, along with Administration Team told them not to do it, and that's how we solved it. Fast-Switching is even in single player IIRC, along with Jump Switch if I am not mistaken. However, the newly server limitations encourages new players to use Crouch Glitching in a Stubby combat. I have not seen any abuse of crouch glitching since the shitstorm, and I hope I will never see, but please, understand that Fast-Switching and Jump-Switching were gamefeatures, also features of 0.3z.
To Gandalf: I sincerelly never seen Administration Team abusing glitches for giving theirselves advantage. Crouch glitching should be removed as it is more than a glitch. It even confuses players, and makes them think it is a cheat, and this was said by a lot of new players. However, for Fast-Switching and Jump-Switching, I do not recall it being called as a 'cheat' by some new player, nor by Veterans or Regulars.
- Shadow.
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To Gandalf: I sincerelly never seen Administration Team abusing glitches for giving theirselves advantage. Crouch glitching should be removed as it is more than a glitch. It even confuses players, and makes them think it is a cheat, and this was said by a lot of new players. However, for Fast-Switching and Jump-Switching, I do not recall it being called as a 'cheat' by some new player, nor by Veterans or Regulars.
- Shadow.
The current limitation started after members of the team were caught wallglitching.
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Huh, you may be right, even if I did not see it with my eyes.
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I will come on server you will show me this glitch...
As for glitches - we do not hunt to punish for using it... We do disallow it strictly if it is used to get an unfair advantage over other player...
While I'll check out the connections to server and solve some work IRL answer me please - can anyone use the glitch you are talking about or only a small group and they do keep the usage of glitch in secret?
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While I'll check out the connections to server and solve some work IRL answer me please - can anyone use the glitch you are talking about or only a small group and they do keep the usage of glitch in secret?
Anyone can use.
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The thing is that veteran players will use these "glitches" against new players. New players then learn how to use them. The process goes on and on and on.
Argonath turns into a death match server when a criminal has guns and reaches his/her home and just starts killing cops who get there. While we're trying to type, someone gets headshotted. Next thing you know is that they've suicided.
Most VCPD Officers have a habit of using their weapons to stop suspects (Yes I admit I have it too). It proves how much deathmatching has happened in their eyes. They've insulted some of us against our pings just because they can't kil us.
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The thing is that veteran players will use these "glitches" against new players. New players then learn how to use them. The process goes on and on and on.
Argonath turns into a death match server when a criminal has guns and reaches his/her home and just starts killing cops who get there. While we're trying to type, someone gets headshotted. Next thing you know is that they've suicided.
Most VCPD Officers have a habit of using their weapons to stop suspects (Yes I admit I have it too). It proves how much deathmatching has happened in their eyes. They've insulted some of us against our pings just because they can't kil us.
Duuuuudeeee. Wat?
What VCPD Officer do you see which shoots on sight without /c sur ? I personally opt for investigation whenever suspect surrenders, and I myself do not neglect any wish or opinion of the busted one. Do you see Marcus ? Legend ? Verz ? Stormeus? JDC ? aXXo ? Me ? opening
fire on sight? We tend to open fire just as a last chance for both him and us, you misunderstand it. I do not know neither understand how you interpretate those actions, neither from where all those lies come from.
What deathmatch? That's how it works you know? If they do not surrender, tell us a better way of stopping them instead of using weapons, should we throw puppies and toys at them? Actually, you are the only one who moans of being typekilled, it's afterall not our fault because you go inside and start typing...
'Veteran' players do not use glitches against new players. You misunderstand again, firing a weapon is not a glitch. And about fastswitching, the only advantage it could probably bring you is NOTHING. You just change a weapon faster, what advantage is this? Is not like you shoot and you turn into Ironman so no one can kill you, about jumpswitch, same thing, IT TAKES SKILL to know when and how to jump, and then someone comes and moan : "GUY B NO FALL Y ADMIN BAN PLZ IF NO I GO OFF SERVR".
Removing those two switches limits the whole server to stand in middle of road and spam m4, so shotguns will not be useful anymore. Ammunation sellings will go down ( Especially NPM and Ocean Beach ) and whole players will focus just on Spaz and M4.
This is both theory and reality, if you do not trust my words, go see yourself.
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Removing those two switches limits the whole server to stand in middle of road and spam m4, so shotguns will not be useful anymore. Ammunation sellings will go down ( Especially NPM and Ocean Beach ) and whole players will focus just on Spaz and M4.
This is both theory and reality, if you do not trust my words, go see yourself.
Very true.. I've seen it for myself. :m4: :sig:
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I will come on server you will show me this glitch...
As for glitches - we do not hunt to punish for using it... We do disallow it strictly if it is used to get an unfair advantage over other player...
While I'll check out the connections to server and solve some work IRL answer me please - can anyone use the glitch you are talking about or only a small group and they do keep the usage of glitch in secret?
Anyone can use the "glitch" and it is not a secret, majority of VCMP players know it and new players have very easy time to work on it.
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Removing those two switches limits the whole server to stand in middle of road and spam m4, so shotguns will not be useful anymore. Ammunation sellings will go down ( Especially NPM and Ocean Beach ) and whole players will focus just on Spaz and M4.
This is both theory and reality, if you do not trust my words, go see yourself.
Years before these two switches you patronize so much were created, MTA:VC players had the skill to fight deathmatchers / hackers using normal weaponry and methods.
Your theory is invalid.
If someone will falsely claim that my comparison does not make sense as it is based on other servers, then remind yourself of which game MTA:VC and VC:MP will not run without...
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Years before these two switches you patronize so much were created, MTA:VC players had the skill to fight deathmatchers / hackers using normal weaponry and methods.
Your theory is invalid.
If someone will falsely claim that my comparison does not make sense as it is based on other servers, then remind yourself of which game MTA:VC and VC:MP will not run without...
As far as I know, using jumping as a technique is available on MTA:VC, and everyone who knows whats a spacebar will use it.
VC:MP doesn't even have that, you can't even jump with shotguns anymore.
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I asked Gandalf about glitches you all are talking about...
I am shocked...
1. Switching the weapons is a key control s option and is NOT a glitch... Everyone can make the controls more comfortable for himself to get the better result of combat... It is the GTA:VC game option...
It is NOT a glitch...
2. Switching from running to jumping and back is NOT a glitch... All the same...
I just do not fucking understand the problem, mates... When I was at my first time on VC multiplayer server I was shocked that everyone is running too fast... Then I figured out the sprint button...
Fast (effective) switching the weapons and run style in combination gives the best fighting result... You should train more on that... If you would be on MTA:VC server long time ago you would be amazed of training club Rockstars clan gave to everyone who wanted to grow his combat skills...
There was everything...
1. Switching weapons and run style in combination
2. Shooting at the nades and molotovs to avoid the explosions and fire
3. Special training "Kill de haxor"
I am really shocked at SUCH problem...
Once again... These are NOT glitches... It are pure deathmatch (fighting) skills...
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Then allow them, because, at this very momment, they are DISABLED by SCRIPT.
Finally, 13847925932658932659827589648923648923 years argue is over.
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Then allow them, because, at this very momment, they are DISABLED by SCRIPT.
It wasn't only disabled because of what was being argued. There were other reasons, as Gandalf had stated. To ask one Server Owner to override another is not a good idea.
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I thought fast and jump switch were disabled BECAUSE they allowed one to glitch. Gandalf should probably check in and clarify.
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It was discussed between owners...
There are no reasons to disable the game options...
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A couple quick references that may help resolve some of this confusion regarding Gandalf's point in removing the abilities:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=85175.msg1347520#msg1347520 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=85175.msg1347520#msg1347520)
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=85175.msg1348770#msg1348770 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=85175.msg1348770#msg1348770)
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=85175.msg1348845#msg1348845 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/forum/index.php?topic=85175.msg1348845#msg1348845)
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It was discussed between owners...
There are not reasons to disable the game options...
Good. The code will be reverted to 1.94a ASAP.
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It's over! The spamwar is over. Finally. SugarD, ... no more need to try, it's over! Woo! We finally managed to get to a common point, after 1 year of fighting... It's finally over! Thanks Aragorn!
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It's over! The spamwar is over. Finally. SugarD, ... no more need to try, it's over! Woo! We finally managed to get to a common point, after 1 year of fighting... It's finally over! Thanks Aragorn!
Actually all we did was get to a common point on this specific issue. :P
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SugarD, he just stopped everything to prevent the endless arguing about glitches...
As I mentioned here not the one time, we do talk about game options of controls, not a glitches...
There is no need for the list of glitches which are allowed or not, no need to sit and sort it out... If it gives unfair advantage - it is against the rules (as cheating)...
Thats the point...
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SugarD, he just stopped everything to prevent the endless arguing about glitches...
As I mentioned here not the one time, we do talk about game options of controls, not a glitches...
There is no need for the list of glitches which are allowed or not, no need to sit and sort it out... If it gives unfair advantage - it is against the rules (as cheating)...
Thats the point...
I'm not against what you are saying RON. I was responding to him over the fact that the overall idea of this topic wasn't resolved...only this one specific part of it we were lingering on was. I do agree that it's a great start because progress is being made, however. :)
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I can get on server so we can solve all other issues...
Just one by one... :)
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Okay, can you come ingame so we fix the real glitches?
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I can get on server so we can solve all other issues...
Just one by one... :)
Then I am very happy to see your interest here! :D
A lot has been getting done in Argo lately ever since you and your brother were able to spend a bit of time the last few days working with everyone beyond the usual, and I've got to say...I'm extremely impressed. I'm very pleased with how many things have been able to get fixed. Keep up the good work RON, (and Gandalf too)! I look forward to the day when we can all relax and RP together after the giant to-do list is completely finished up and everything is crossed off of it! :lol:
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I can get on server so we can solve all other issues...
Just one by one... :)
Please. This sub-community needs it more than you think.
And hopefully they will not follow your words only to go back to the old ways after some time.
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Thanks Ron, you're our savior.
And to all of us who wanted to get fastswitch and jumpswitch back:
Very well done.
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And to all of us who wanted to get fastswitch and jumpswitch back:
Very well done.
It wasn't a contest.
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It wasn't a contest.
having a few people whining then others whining about that people whining is never a contest
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having a few people whining then others whining about that people whining is never a contest
Agreed...so why are we still even having this discussion? :conf:
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Because you don't seem to like anyone other than you having the last word in anything.
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Because you don't seem to like anyone other than you having the last word in anything.
No...I just think it was unneeded for someone to bump the topic after it had ended just to spark up provocative feelings again.
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No...I just think it was unneeded for someone to bump the topic after it had ended just to spark up provocative feelings again.
I was inactive for a while and wanted to show my joy for the community making the right decision. Get off my back.
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I was inactive for a while and wanted to show my joy for the community making the right decision. Get off my back.
You took part in the entire conversation before your comments too...how does that make any difference? I'm not trying to get on your *** for anything. I just think we don't need to revive this touchy topic again.
Maybe we should just request a lock so we can both shut up :lol:
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Also going to request a lock here, everyone's work here is done.