Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Gandalf on June 24, 2012, 10:42:51 am
-
If players check the Rules (http://wiki.argonathrpg.eu/index.php/Argonath_Rules) it clearly says:
- Cheats, mods and hacks are not allowed.
This to avoid that people will start telling that this is based on 'unwritten' rules.
As we can not go in to the computer of our players and see what is in there, over the years we have always had the position that any visual only mod is no problem to use.
But as usual, it seems that players are giving their own interpretation to this and have started to expand beyond the lines of what they should be doing.
Now first of all, we have here some heavily modded games with even underground tunnels and sky bridges. And car models that are great looking, player models changed and all.
But we do not use it for multiplayer, and with a very good reason.
When you change the skin (and by that I mean the skin of the model, the TXD file) it is permitted as nothing is done to the model itself.
But when the model is changed, weird things start to happen. The thing is that SA:MP bases collision detection on the GTA:SA game, and when you change the model the collision detection changes as well.
This has consequences that your game is sending different signals as the standard game, and on your screen things look different as on the screen of a standard game.
This can give you an advantage as well as a disadvantage, but in any case should be avoided, as it can cause misunderstandings between players and extra work for admins, as well as problems for the server.
These are some of the problems:
If you are using a lot of high-poly modifications, objects in your game start loading slower. As a result not only your PC is giving back information slower, but this can influence the server as a whole. It is no use for us to fight server lag is our players create it.
Because you run a modded vehicle of a different size, other vehicles are ramming you while they say they do not. Or you are as cop ramming another vehicle and it does not take damage (HACKER!!!!!).
If you change a model so you get a direct advantage like being almost unable to be hit by bullets it is a straight ban.
[/list]
Now that you know the problems, you probably understand why this rule has been in effect since the first day (as there were GREAT mods for GTA:VC in 2006 already).
For those who will say it limits 'roleplay': We are playing in the GTA world. By using your own world models you are distantiating yourself from that. They may look better, but RP is never the visual effect you see on screen.
As said in the beginning we can not crawl in to your computer. So it is still your own responsibility.
However if you feel you should use vehicle model modifications, think of the following:
Vehicle modifications
Cop role
You can NEVER suspect or pull over for ramming as you can not detect if they rammed on a game without modification.
You can NEVER attempt to stop others by ramming in a chase as it can create misunderstandings.
You can NEVER suspect or pull over people for vandalizing your car, as you can not be sure if they hit or shot at it in a game without modification.
You can NEVER claim lag to get out of punishment as you have knowingly caused it.
Criminal role
You can NEVER deny being suspected or pulled over for ramming as it may have happened on a game without modifications.
You can NEVER report people for hacks of not taking damage to their car.
You can NEVER claim lag to get out of punishment.
If you do, expect that YOU are the one being punished.
Player model modifications
Expect to be banned if you are not taking normal damage.
If you wish to claim lag as reason for ban, you will have to provide a screenshot and a detailed configuration of your game PC as well as internet connection to be unbanned, as well as give managers the right to check this by remote access through TeamViewer or similar programs.
While we enjoys mods, if we use them for a video or movie we use a special server for it. The Stunt server might be a good place.
So for those who are tl;dr:
No mods allowed except purely visual txd changes. Any change of vehicle model, object or player model can cause you to be banned if found it gives you a (dis)advantage.
Besides that, your own experience will deteriorate as you will land in unnecessary discussions about lag or hacks.
-
Good.
-
I've never used mods in my life, and look at all the places I've gone in this server.
Mods are useless and do not add to RP.
-
Okay...
-
ah good
-
Posting this here because I never got an answer from you on the other thread.
As a mod dev, I have some solutions for the issues you brought up above regarding vehicle mods.
Server lag
If you are using a lot of high-poly modifications, objects in your game start loading slower. As a result not only your PC is giving back information slower, but this can influence the server as a whole. It is no use for us to fight server lag is our players create it.
Only solution to this is not to use high poly mods if your PC is not very high spec. I try not to make mods that are very detailed but I don't sacrifice details either just because some people don't have a decent PC. This is up to the users not the developers.
Misunderstandings
Because you run a modded vehicle of a different size, other vehicles are ramming you while they say they do not. Or you are as cop ramming another vehicle and it does not take damage (HACKER!!!!!).
Easy solution for this I have actually done before. All that would need to be done is to make solid part of the car mod the same dimensions as the original car.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2h4f3fa.png]http://i48.tinypic.com/2h4f3fa.png)
Here is a diagram of what im talking about, the part in red other players will just drive through like a ghost, but the blue is the solid part that they can hit which is the same size as the default PD car, meaning that if a player hits the front of the mod which is longer then the default car, they simply drive through it like a ghost.
Invulnerability
If you change a model so you get a direct advantage like being almost unable to be hit by bullets it is a straight ban.
I have never done this on a mod but it is possible. Most of my car mods actually give players a disadvantage because the windows are bigger then the default car, meaning they can get hit by bullets easier XD
Would like to see your thoughts on this Gandalf. Would suck if all the stuff I make can't be used here...
-
Phew
-
In non modders terms:
They should not change the shape of the cars (models?)? Such as, changing a LSPD car into a Mustang or something.
-
In non modders terms:
They should not change the shape of the cars (models?)? Such as, changing a LSPD car into a Mustang or something.
Everything must stay untouched.
No change of shapes, lenght, height whatsoever.
The model must stay the original one, only the texture (painting on the model) may be changed. Also known as the .txd.
-
This is a bit sad, especially for me, because car mods made me join the community, but you have a good reason. But I wonder if mods like the Emergency Light Mod, which is very common among Emergency Service Roleplayers, are still allowed?
-
Such as installing a (insert Yankee SUV name) mod in a police saloon car. You flip at the first corner. :rofl:
-
This is a bit sad, especially for me, because car mods made me join the community, but you have a good reason. But I wonder if mods like the Emergency Light Mod, which is very common among Emergency Service Roleplayers, are still allowed?
Already found the solution so PD car mods are safe as long as you use the edited models I made.
-
So... if I have car mods, I must delete them?
The mods I have are:
LSPD to Crown Vic
SFPD to Chevy Caprice
LVPD to 2008 Dodge Charger
Police Rancher to Ford Explorer
Police Bike to Harley Davidson
Police Heli to new heli
FBI Rancher to Undercover Chevy Suburban
Caddy to Smart Car
and ELM
Do I have to remove those? because if I have to, it will look ugly...
-
GOOD THING NO ONE HAS EVER USED CAR MODS EVER.
-
I had the SA full retexutre pack installed for the longest time, after removing that things got so much easier with the lag issue.
and I agree, mods do not increase RP the least bit since... well only you can see them. They are nothing more than something to change how you view the game. SA:MP is not like other GTA:MP games where the server can send modded files to the client, this is because the lead developer of SA:MP does not believe in this, and is against this belief. So in short while, to you, you are driving a tricked out BA looking car... to everyone else your just in the same old shitty looking Sultan (or what ever they have set, which could be to them some old ghetto deadbeat car). If this increases RP for you, then you need to seriously rethink a lot.
-
So... if I have car mods, I must delete them?
The mods I have are:
LSPD to Crown Vic
SFPD to Chevy Caprice
LVPD to 2008 Dodge Charger
Police Rancher to Ford Explorer
Police Bike to Harley Davidson
Police Heli to new heli
FBI Rancher to Undercover Chevy Suburban
Caddy to Smart Car
and ELM
Do I have to remove those? because if I have to, it will look ugly...
No, you don't have to remove them. Visual modifications are fine.
GOOD THING NO ONE HAS EVER USED CAR MODS EVER.
just because your pc can't handle them
enb 10fps
xDDDDD
-
So for those who are tl;dr:
Thanks, man. :lol:
-
No, you don't have to remove them. Visual modifications are fine.
Editing .dff will already change more than just visual aspect, unless you do what SafetyMoose described. Though I'm not sure if keeping the same dimensions will get rid of all the risks.
-
Editing .dff will already change more than just visual aspect, unless you do what SafetyMoose described. Though I'm not sure if keeping the same dimensions will get rid of all the risks.
If the models are fairly close in shape and size, usually it won't make a difference since small forms of desync move the placement of vehicles slightly on other people's screens anyway, which makes up for the few millimeter differences between most mods. Some mods also account for these changes by making their textures overlap onto a non-solid area of the model so that the size is the same as the game's original vehicle model it's meant to replace.
As long as you aren't doing something drastic, like replacing a bicycle model with a bus' model, then you should be fine in most cases.
-
Another thing to consider with car mods is wheel positioning. I'm pretty sure that this affects actual handling, although I'm not 100% sure.
-
Posting this here because I never got an answer from you on the other thread.
As a mod dev, I have some solutions for the issues you brought up above regarding vehicle mods.
Only solution to this is not to use high poly mods if your PC is not very high spec. I try not to make mods that are very detailed but I don't sacrifice details either just because some people don't have a decent PC. This is up to the users not the developers.
Easy solution for this I have actually done before. All that would need to be done is to make solid part of the car mod the same dimensions as the original car.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2h4f3fa.png]http://i48.tinypic.com/2h4f3fa.png)
Here is a diagram of what im talking about, the part in red other players will just drive through like a ghost, but the blue is the solid part that they can hit which is the same size as the default PD car, meaning that if a player hits the front of the mod which is longer then the default car, they simply drive through it like a ghost.
I have never done this on a mod but it is possible. Most of my car mods actually give players a disadvantage because the windows are bigger then the default car, meaning they can get hit by bullets easier XD
Would like to see your thoughts on this Gandalf. Would suck if all the stuff I make can't be used here...
I would have to check and test if this works as you think it does.
Even if you use a solid model, people on your screen will be 'driving in to your car' as server is placing them according to their game. The determining factor is collision detection. If there is no collision detected until the 'solid' part is hit, then it is a possible solution, but we would have to test and approve every model that people wish to use spearetely.
Regarding ELM: As ELM is a pure visual mod, it is allowed. However please be extremely careful installing, as the CLEO needed for ELM sometimes comes with scripts that can cause unwanted side effects. Do not take downloads from 'friends', only go to the original downloads and ensure that there are absolutely no other scripts running in CLEO.
-
I would have to check and test if this works as you think it does.
Even if you use a solid model, people on your screen will be 'driving in to your car' as server is placing them according to their game. The determining factor is collision detection. If there is no collision detected until the 'solid' part is hit, then it is a possible solution, but we would have to test and approve every model that people wish to use spearetely.
Regarding ELM: As ELM is a pure visual mod, it is allowed. However please be extremely careful installing, as the CLEO needed for ELM sometimes comes with scripts that can cause unwanted side effects. Do not take downloads from 'friends', only go to the original downloads and ensure that there are absolutely no other scripts running in CLEO.
I have gone about editing my Crown Victoria model to fit the diagram and it seems to work fine. The size of the default care was actually very close to that of the mod, so I did not have to change very much from the front and back. The only issue I can see is that my mods have bigger front windows, meaning you can get shot easier then the default car... although that is a disadvantage really :P
-
I would have to check and test if this works as you think it does.
Even if you use a solid model, people on your screen will be 'driving in to your car' as server is placing them according to their game. The determining factor is collision detection. If there is no collision detected until the 'solid' part is hit, then it is a possible solution, but we would have to test and approve every model that people wish to use separately.
It's not very common, but some mods I have ran across were purposely made this way due to the modding communities having heavy interaction with MP communities over the years, so many modders have accommodated for such issues.
I can think of at least one FD vehicle mod I used awhile back on the Boxville in SA:MP which had non-solid areas in the front and back since the new texture was physically larger than the original model, just as Safetymoose's example describes. I've also seen many PD car mods which have had small areas in the front and back that were non-solid to deal with the mod being just scale-inches longer than the original vehicle, but that is less common.
Another thing to consider with car mods is wheel positioning. I'm pretty sure that this affects actual handling, although I'm not 100% sure.
This can if it is a change that is quite different than the original vehicle, but it is actually caused by the model's interaction with the environment, and most commonly, the ground below it's frame. Just like how vehicles in GTA IV can tilt their bodies towards the ground and scrape, vehicle models in GTA:SA can too, although whether they are supposed to or not depends entirely on their original model's design, which mods should match to avoid such an issue.
-
I've never used mods in my life, and look at all the places I've gone in this server.
Mods are useless and do not add to RP.
Actually, you've been missing alot of fun.Like Argonath PD car mods for example.
-
I've never used mods in my life, and look at all the places I've gone in this server.
Mods are useless and do not add to RP.
If you have never used them how can you give a credible comment about them :roll:
-
Gandalf, I would like to ask question about "skin mods".
I made default cars with modified skin, but Model(DFF) edit was needed in order to adapt custom textures.
Is it allowed for use ingame?
(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab225/ysjpn/Mods/GGMM2011-04-1400-42-40-40.png)
Note: Only texture mapping on model was changed, not physical model(shape etc) or collision files.
-
Gandalf, I would like to ask question about "skin mods".
I made default cars with modified skin, but Model(DFF) edit was needed in order to adapt custom textures.
Is it allowed for use ingame?
(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab225/ysjpn/Mods/GGMM2011-04-1400-42-40-40.png)
Note: Only texture mapping on model was changed, not physical model(shape etc) or collision files.
If you actually didn't tl;dr you'd understand that changing only dff (image file) is actually allowed, since it's purely visual change, no change in shape or size of the car = no lag caused. I certainly believe that if people on server would NOT use any mod at all, the side-ways lag and many more would also dissapear..
-
If you actually didn't tl;dr you'd understand that changing only dff (image file) is actually allowed,
The DFF is the Model, i think you mean the .txd file ;)
-
Gandalf, I would like to ask question about "skin mods".
I made default cars with modified skin, but Model(DFF) edit was needed in order to adapt custom textures.
Is it allowed for use ingame?
(http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab225/ysjpn/Mods/GGMM2011-04-1400-42-40-40.png)
Note: Only texture mapping on model was changed, not physical model(shape etc) or collision files.
let me go to main admins and cry and ask for permission on every farting shit i take... have any fucking brains? figure it out...
-
let me go to main admins and cry and ask for permission on every farting shit i take... have any f**king brains? figure it out...
I suggest you go read the rules then my friend.
-
MMNNNNN... I have some MODS (cars,guns) and i take ban for them so i delte all GTA and i want to install again but i dont know where to get again :( can anyone say me wheere to get id Please? ?
-
MMNNNNN... I have some MODS (cars,guns) and i take ban for them so i delte all GTA and i want to install again but i dont know where to get again :( can anyone say me wheere to get id Please? ?
Go to your friendly neighborhood eBay and buy a copy. Surely they can't be more than a few bucks.
As far as ELM, I think it may actually be the best visual mod as it enhances the gameplay not only of the person with it installed but also others since everyone can see it. Granted those without ELM-enabled car mods will have a default vehicle with flashing lights that look like sh*t, but it still adds to the game since emergency vehicles can use them for added visibility just like irl.
Other than firefighter or maybe police, I don't use ped mods because I like to see the same peds as everyone else. Seeing different peds would seriously hurt my experience.
I seriously can't think of an emergency vehicle (at least the ones I interact with/see regularly) I don't have modded: Pierce Arrow engine and ladder, Suburban for FBI Rancher/FD Rancher, the mandatory Crown Vics for PD, Tahoe for PD Rancher, then some other regular cars like a '12 Dodge 3500 tow truck, '08 F-350 for Landstalker, and Dodge Baja truck for the civ Rancher. I try to pick models that are as close in form and functionality to the default counterparts, like (in Argo at least) I wouldn't put a brush truck on a utility and run through downtown LS with my ELM going expecting people to get out of the way cause all they would see is a utility truck with flashing lights being driven by an idiot yelling at them to move, and using /s1-3 while doing that would probably lead to a report for script abuse.
Practice responsible modding I think is the key here.
-
Okay...
-
I have weapon mods..It only changed weapon skins,but not their power..Should i delete those mods ?
-
Those would probably be fine since it's just a graphical change
-
There are only two things that Argo hands down does not allow and that is mods that:
Notably change the COL model
Change the handling settings
Just a note to all the people who have quickly read this seen a pic with custom models and thought omfg you aren't allowed that, you cannot tell unless you are in game and can prove that it is effecting the game.
Some models will cause frame rate to decrease this is due to you do not have a computer that can run HQ mods on SA hence it will make you slower in game. In short crap PC no mods.
-
There are only two things that Argo hands down does not allow and that is mods that:
Notably change the COL model
Change the handling settings
Just a note to all the people who have quickly read this seen a pic with custom models and thought omfg you aren't allowed that, you cannot tell unless you are in game and can prove that it is effecting the game.
Some models will cause frame rate to decrease this is due to you do not have a computer that can run HQ mods on SA hence it will make you slower in game. In short crap PC no mods.
That sums it all up I think.