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GTA:VC => VC:MP General => VC:MP - Vice City Multiplayer => VC:MP Ideas => Topic started by: Kessu on July 14, 2012, 07:38:18 pm

Title: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 14, 2012, 07:38:18 pm
So, as we had a little chat with EAF, we came up with a few ideas for SWAT and FBI.

Since we all know, FBI aren't supposed to be the one doing the raids, but the investigations, an idea would be to remove /c stealth completely from FBI and add it to a new SWAT gear that is SNIPER only. (aka, SWAT would get colt, laser sniper and a stealth (ON FOOT).

Now, you may think what will FBI be? Well it would be what it was MEANT to be, leading group of investigation and undercover operations (you do not need a M4, MP5 and a laser to do FBI duty. All you need is a colt. Now you may think that FBI would be "underpowered" in the face of criminals (aka EAF). Well, you have a SWAT and /c bu to call for backups. Don't try to be a rambo.

Also SWAT could get a one more gear according to what players want (aka SWAT team members) that has a (laser)sniper in it, but no stealth. Since hey, we all know SWAT is the tactical team, not the FBI. FBI is the stragetical one.

Discuss.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: stormeus on July 14, 2012, 07:49:22 pm
This would only be worth consideration if SWAT were active, which it's not.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 14, 2012, 07:55:40 pm
This would only be worth consideration if SWAT were active, which it's not.
2 active members in FBI. That is not activity either man :(
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Verz on July 14, 2012, 11:59:03 pm
2 active members in FBI. That is not activity either man :(
Not really, almost whole FBI is active.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: PulseEffect on July 15, 2012, 06:28:43 am
We have Gear 4 for SWAT for that.
Maybe applying Stealth to Gear 4 for SWAT?
And what happen to PIG Duty Storm?????  :(
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 15, 2012, 07:54:26 am
We have Gear 4 for SWAT for that.
Maybe applying Stealth to Gear 4 for SWAT?
And what happen to PIG Duty Storm?????  :(
Stealth is broken when applied on non-sniper (aka m4). Therefore any other usage of stealth other than with stealth should be punishable (IF this gets implemented).
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: JDC on July 15, 2012, 09:58:25 am
No. FBI is more on precision while SWAT is about strength.

Other than underpowering the FBI and serving as an impediment to our operations, there is no further significance in this idea.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 15, 2012, 10:07:31 am
No. FBI is more on precision while SWAT is about strength.

Other than underpowering the FBI and serving as an impediment to our operations, there is no further significance in this idea.
How does your operations include a firepower that basically matches that of SWAT?

FBI is not supposed to be in the front line, they are all about negotiating, investigating and undercover work.. Not raiding places.

Also, of Law Enforcement, SWAT should be the superior one in firepower, with none alike. Now it's FBI and SWAT on-par with firepower (inb4 you say BWAT and FBI doesn't have shotgun)
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: JDC on July 15, 2012, 10:15:33 am
FBI is not supposed to be in the front line, they are all about negotiating, investigating and undercover work.. Not raiding places.
So if a team of FBI is online, without any VCPD assistance, and the bank gets robbed, you simply expect us to just stand there with megaphones?

FBI is not supposed to be in the front line, they are all about negotiating, investigating and undercover work.. Not raiding places.
There are certain operations FBI pulls off that does not match SWAT's line of work, but still requires a certain kind of firepower.

Also, of Law Enforcement, SWAT should be the superior one in firepower, with none alike. Now it's FBI and SWAT on-par with firepower (inb4 you say BWAT and FBI doesn't have shotgun)
The firepower of SWAT's weaponry has always been superior to FBI arsenal, and will always be.

May I remind you of who has more knowledge about FBI protocol, procedure, and what we do other than responding to hostile suspects and bank robberies. Your proposal for FBI is denied.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 15, 2012, 11:14:40 am
Like talking to a brick wall.. Cba to go give further arguments, since you seem to have tunnel-vision of your precious group.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: JDC on July 15, 2012, 11:29:54 am
Like talking to a brick wall.. Cba to go give further arguments, since you seem to have tunnel-vision of your precious group.

The only tunnel-vision here is possessed by those who seek to do nothing but weaken the other side.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 15, 2012, 02:26:12 pm
The only tunnel-vision here is possessed by those who seek to do nothing but weaken the other side.
It's not about "weakening" FBI, it's about balancing the "power" within ARPD. As it seems to an outsider, there is no other rank but FBI and freecop. Why? Nobody wants SWAT because FBI is TOO GOOD to be skipped. This would balance the gap between FBI & SWAT, if FBI still wants to raid places, then be my guest and visit ammunation or /c duty cop.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Klaus on July 15, 2012, 03:04:10 pm
All FBI are are normal cops with a different skin and no blip chasing suspects with M4. 
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: ~Legend~ on July 15, 2012, 03:16:06 pm
No, I don't think it would work in that light - referring to original idea.

Thought I'd just start on that, in case/should this topic dissolve into something it wasn't meant to be. :)

The operations of the Federal Bureau of Investigation have changed a lot in the last year (in fact, it's exactly been a year now since some drastic changes began taking place for the Vice City Investigation Department [VCID]).

VC:MP's FBI is somewhat unique. In a real world sense, you could consider it on par with the SIS (MI6), Security Servie (MI5), CIA, ASIS... to name a few from around the globe.

Its primary activity is to gather intelligence on varying levels for the government, law enforcement and so on.
It also plays some significant roles on the field, doing practical tasks, some of which may involve direct confrontation.

I noticed the word "raid" coming up a lot - the FBI doesn't take part in simple "raids" as such. They may lay the foundations for an upcoming raid, and gather the required intel, but an all out raid wouldn't normally be orchestrated by the unit.
However, undercover raids/busts may commonly be carried out by agents working for the FBI.

Counter-terrorism, direct offensive/defensive operations would be carried out by the SWAT team.
In certain situations, the general body of the VCPD, along with SWAT and FBI may cooperate to bring things under control.



I wouldn't say that the FBI or SWAT are more or less superior than the other - they work in different ways, a main difference being that the SWAT are more for very specialised situations and we may not require their presence daily. FBI branches off slightly more from the VCPD.

Firepower: SWAT still has a larger array of weapons.

I think everyone with SWAT or FBI permissions have been using them appropriately - thankfully. :p
The only ones that misuse it are the ones that aren't meant to have it in the first place.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Marcell on July 15, 2012, 04:33:44 pm
It's primary activity is to gather intelligence on varying levels for the government, law enforcement and so on.
lol
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: JDC on July 15, 2012, 05:04:49 pm
lol

Don't speak about what you don't know.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: ~Legend~ on July 15, 2012, 05:08:20 pm
Don't speak about what you don't know.

Hehe, and I don't know what he's speaking about.  :lol:
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 15, 2012, 05:50:05 pm
I hear someone is taking a suggestion little too personally. Chill out JDC, it's just an IDEA. You could give some enlightment to us, if you feel like we know jackshit of your FBI. Just sayin' the FBI there is now is just not what it is supposed to be.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: JDC on July 16, 2012, 01:57:45 am
I do not take kindly to moves that will attempt to undercut or impede any reforms we in VCPD-CMD are executing.

Recently, I have begun and spearheaded Operation 'Reform VCPD'... this is aimed at ensuring the quality of the VCPD and removing those officers with sub-par performance (i.e: /c rambocops) that you people keep complaining about, as well as the enforcement of stricter standards for both staff and applicants, with anyone who refuses to get in shape (in accordance with our standards) being removed. It is the best we can do to increase the quality of law enforcement on the server.

However, our movement is restricted to VC:MP VCPD only as the VC:MP Management has opted not to give us any direct method of controlling all law enforcement on the server. This means that there is nothing we can do about complaints or misdeeds done by cops outside VCPD.

As for FBI, it has in itself been collecting information, with the [EAF] case being the biggest case (so far) that VC:MP VCPD has ever worked on (unless there are cases in unseen archives not visible even to the VCPD Chief)... so you can say FBI is not all about speeding around in cheetahs and head-shotting bank robbers with M4/snipers. If what we have been doing is not in line with how the FBI is supposed to work, then nothing is.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 16, 2012, 04:35:47 am
I do not take kindly to moves that will attempt to undercut or impede any reforms we in VCPD-CMD are executing.

Recently, I have begun and spearheaded Operation 'Reform VCPD'... this is aimed at ensuring the quality of the VCPD and removing those officers with sub-par performance (i.e: /c rambocops) that you people keep complaining about, as well as the enforcement of stricter standards for both staff and applicants, with anyone who refuses to get in shape (in accordance with our standards) being removed. It is the best we can do to increase the quality of law enforcement on the server.

However, our movement is restricted to VC:MP VCPD only as the VC:MP Management has opted not to give us any direct method of controlling all law enforcement on the server. This means that there is nothing we can do about complaints or misdeeds done by cops outside VCPD.

As for FBI, it has in itself been collecting information, with the [EAF] case being the biggest case (so far) that VC:MP VCPD has ever worked on (unless there are cases in unseen archives not visible even to the VCPD Chief)... so you can say FBI is not all about speeding around in cheetahs and head-shotting bank robbers with M4/snipers. If what we have been doing is not in line with how the FBI is supposed to work, then nothing is.
I'm not saying nothing is in line with how you should be doing as FBI, but the constant usage of stealth IN COMBAT purpose (read; using spaz, m4s, mp5s) and not even knowing you have a sniper, is just plain wrong. /c stealth was invented for investigation / sniper support role, not to go around blipless for the advantage it gives you over criminals. Therefore I (myself) requested the removal of FBIs M4 and MP5 (and laser to give it to swat along with /c stealth), but it could also be done by removing the M4 and leaving FBI with mp5 and sniper with stealth.

Inb4 someone says I used it whole day, yes, I did. The only day I could've been a FBI, I used it all day long.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Huntsman on July 16, 2012, 08:10:55 am
FBI in VCMP was made more like SWAT as we all see it.. They storm in the bankrobs... Simply theyre performing SWAT duties when SWAT is not there... /c stealth shouldnt be there in the first case, it was VCID's command, not FBI's.

That problem with SWAT inactivity. SWAT can always be expanded.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Klaus on July 16, 2012, 02:18:07 pm
The only reason /c stealth is used is to gain an advantage while hunting suspects.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: stormeus on July 16, 2012, 06:51:46 pm
The only reason /c stealth is used is to gain an advantage while hunting suspects.

Then obviously you haven't noticed agents using it during surveillance, meaning it's working.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 16, 2012, 06:54:02 pm
Then obviously you haven't noticed agents using it during surveillance, meaning it's working.
You considering a requlation for using /c stealth to gain HUGE advantage over criminals in a battle? Snipers I understand, but not the rushers.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Klaus on July 16, 2012, 06:59:35 pm
Then obviously you haven't noticed agents using it during surveillance, meaning it's working.
Not really, since we know whose FBI (and when they're ingame) and its pretty easy to count blips and use /c dis. The amount of times /c stealth is used in combat excels that of any other use its been involved in.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Marcell on July 16, 2012, 08:03:10 pm
I'm pretty sure there was idea regarding /c stealth and in the end we came to conclusion it should disable automatically as soon as 'agent' takes damage, yet it was never implemented
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: stormeus on July 16, 2012, 08:45:24 pm
I'm pretty sure there was idea regarding /c stealth and in the end we came to conclusion it should disable automatically as soon as 'agent' takes damage, yet it was never implemented

It's impossible to implement until 2.0.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: ~Legend~ on July 16, 2012, 09:10:35 pm
FBI has made a lot of headway on the surveillance, gathering intel front.

FBI in VCMP was made more like SWAT as we all see it.. They storm in the bankrobs... Simply theyre performing SWAT duties when SWAT is not there... /c stealth shouldnt be there in the first case, it was VCID's command, not FBI's.

That problem with SWAT inactivity. SWAT can always be expanded.

It would be (more) difficult for the FBI to perform SWAT roles (and vice versa) simply due to their differences in equipment.
- Note: Already mentioned earlier.


Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: JDC on July 17, 2012, 04:11:09 am
Quote
/c stealth was invented for investigation / sniper support role, not to go around blipless for the advantage it gives you over criminals.
Quote
give it to swat along with /c stealth

Your proposal in itself is contradictory, as you are pointing out that stealth should not be used for combat when you want to give it to SWAT, which in itself is designed only for combat. It only shows that your intention is to weaken the FBI's capabilities.

You considering a requlation for using /c stealth to gain HUGE advantage over criminals in a battle? Snipers I understand, but not the rushers.
I myself use stealth while sniping... although I have also allowed the usage of it in combat when Agents are hopelessly outnumbered. When the day comes that gangs do not fight while camping in gang HQs that have thousands and thousands of weapons (which FBI does not, as I run out of M4 often), I will reconsider that decision.

There is a balance in place, between FBI's equipment (the meager firepower and stealth) and the firepower gangs have which is on SWAT levels (except it is not free), so there is no "unfair advantage". Interesting how the criminals in this topic want to derail the balance so as for it to be in their favor.



Simply theyre performing SWAT duties when SWAT is not there...
Which is how it was done in the VCPD even since the early MTA:VC era, and even in other servers... when SWAT was not available and the cops couldn't handle it, FBI assists. Thanks for pointing out how we are performing one of our jobs well.



All I see in this topic are attempts to weaken the FBI, when everyone supporting that cause is ignorant of the information we have collected in our line of duty. You should be, as it is classified information after all.

Nonetheless, FBI is performing its tasks as it should, so I see no reason for our equipment to be decided by people who make all the wrong assumptions as they do not  even know everything we do (and are supposed to do).
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: Kessu on July 17, 2012, 04:34:31 am
Your proposal in itself is contradictory, as you are pointing out that stealth should not be used for combat when you want to give it to SWAT, which in itself is designed only for combat. It only shows that your intention is to weaken the FBI's capabilities.
You're not getting my point with usage of stealth. SWAT would get it ONLY with that one class with only a colt and a sniper in it. No stealth for BWAT, gear 3 or w/e, only the one class.

FBI with cops are rarely outnumbered when one of your agents starts using stealth. Infact, he uses it all the time he is chasing, no matter with the wanted level or how many criminals there are. If there's EAF tag included, it means automatic /c stealth on the agent I am talking about.
Title: Re: FBI & SWAT
Post by: JDC on July 17, 2012, 04:49:40 am
Infact, he uses it all the time he is chasing, no matter with the wanted level or how many criminals there are. If there's EAF tag included, it means automatic /c stealth on the agent I am talking about.

This is unacceptable... I would like to hear more about this Agent through PM.
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