Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Mashgash on August 16, 2012, 01:29:54 am

Title: A message...
Post by: Mashgash on August 16, 2012, 01:29:54 am
What is the matter with you?! Do you think it is okey to have such attitude that makes your fellow players pissed off and feels provoked? Do you think it is okey to treat another player, a community member and most important A HUMAN as garbage because he wear another tag then you do? Do you think it is okey to make up a scenario and then blame another player of rulebreaking when you started it all? Do you think it is funny to accuse fellow players for things they did not commited?

This community is being held up by the members. Not the owners, not the administration, not the scripters, but the members of it that includes EVERYONE of us. What is the purpose of mistreating eachother when we all aim for the same goal? The goal we all aim for is to have fun. I am here to relax, speak and introduce the server to the newcommers who wish to remain as regulars. Instead I join to take care of situations that involves provocative comments, rulebreaking and arrogant attitude between players. Do you wish to play on a server there you can not even enter the game without being called "idiot"? Every day I am online I see players who mistreating eachother because they have different point of views. Every day I see players who argue about pointless things instead of peacefully find a solution. Every day I see groups who provoke eachother because one of them "won" and the other "lost" the "war" they had. Is it like this you wish to play in Argonath RPG now and onwards? 

The advantage of playing in Argonath RPG is that you are not limited to anything. Argonath RPG includes a very tiny rulebook and we let our players roleplay by their creativity - We believe in players make the roleplays and not the scripts. You are able to do basically everything you wish to do in here (limited to our rules). You can join to chat with your friends and other players all over the world in the public chat, you are not limited to any of these crap "roleplay" terms that makes you forced to write in a certain way if you wish to chit-chat. You can join Argonath RPG to drive around in the middle of nowhere and enjoy it with your cyber-friends without being limited to "RP-driving". You can join Argonath RPG to try out any work you wish without any academy, long introduction with walls of texts or a test you need to study for. This is what you have been offered to use! You are here to enjoy the game! Play with respect, honor and motivation. Respect your fellow players that hold up the server. Honor the ones who created and protecting it and motivate eachother to play by the rules and fun. This is probaly the only roleplay server that offer these kind of stuff - Are you prepared to throw it away?


United we stand, divided we fall...
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 01:32:00 am
Ironic. You know what I mean. ;)

Anyways, what was the reason for this?
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Mashgash on August 16, 2012, 01:35:46 am
Ironic. You know what I mean.

Anyways, what was the reason for this?
Consider what you have since it could be gone one day - Basically.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 01:36:50 am
Consider what you have since it could be gone one day - Basically.

That is not an answer to my question. What you just wrote down there is more of an interpretative summary of your post, not an answer as to why this was posted. I'm sure there was a reason. Why would you randomly make a topic like this?
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Mashgash on August 16, 2012, 01:43:49 am
That is not an answer to my question.
I made it to make players wake up as they should consider if they are ready to lose one of the things that they are addicted to.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Murt on August 16, 2012, 01:44:11 am
What do you think the reason for this would be? Just by reading it you can already know what it is about.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 01:46:46 am
What do you think the reason for this would be? Just by reading it you can already know what it is about.

There coulds be hundreds of reasons for such a topic. An example of the kind of answer I was looking for would be something like this:

''Because today, Player-A was in a very heated debate with Player-B about what kind of socks one should wear.''
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Nathan_Alexandrov on August 16, 2012, 01:47:48 am
I wish you good luck in getting your message across. As in the real world there are some fucking idiots who need to sort themselves.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Komani on August 16, 2012, 02:07:40 am
Play with respect, honor and motivation.
Those few words should be shown with the rest of the text when you join the server. Enough said.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: SugarD on August 16, 2012, 02:12:33 am
Very well said Mash. This should be posted in the News and Announcements, because everyone needs to see it. People need to stop acting like they are better than one another and just learn to get along so everyone can have fun...

There coulds be hundreds of reasons for such a topic. An example of the kind of answer I was looking for would be something like this:

''Because today, Player-A was in a very heated debate with Player-B about what kind of socks one should wear.''
A reason is not always needed. When you see a repetitive problem, that becomes your motivation to confront it. It doesn't necessarily have to be a specific incident that leads to a reaction.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 02:34:42 am
A reason is not always needed. When you see a repetitive problem, that becomes your motivation to confront it. It doesn't necessarily have to be a specific incident that leads to a reaction.

Yet I asked for one, and got one. If there wasn't a specific incident leading to this, then I can honestly say I've seen loads of topics with the same concept. And what did they achieve? Sadly, but absolutely not surprisingly, nothing at all. These topics have great intentions behind them, but really never have any impact on anyone. This is just a topic for people to gather round, say how they want stuff to change, share their intentions, and a week or two later, completely disregard. People don't change because someone makes ''wise'' topics like this. Learning is a process that takes a lot more time than 5 minutes of reading and understanding a message like this.

The fact is, the majority of Argonath players are below the age of fifteen. There is nothing wrong with that, and I myself played in this community first at the age of 9 or 10. I learned how to speak English here and a lot of valueble life lessons. I learned and grew. Not everyone is the same, but the same concept applies to anyone with a properly functioning pair of brains. One of the tasks for the administration is to correct those who are still learning when they're wrong, and it disappoints me that the author of this topic does not seem to understand that, which is something that became apperent in the following sentence:

...Instead I join to take care of situations that involves provocative comments, rulebreaking and arrogant attitude between players...

Mash, you're saying it as if that's something you don't want to do and don't understand. Like I said above, correcting players is one of the administration team's main tasks. You signed up for it, and solving these issues has to be done over and over again, every case individually. A topic like this won't be looked at from a serious perspective by the players that are actually causing the above. They have to be helped by you, as an administrators, and have to be told that it's wrong. Repeating this and many other processes is what a member of the administration team does and should do in order to make those unfamiliar, familiar with this ''small rulebook'' and at the same time, life, basic communication. Your vision on this seems to be an unhealthy one. You're tired of it, yet are forced to repeat the process at least ten times a day. Perhaps you should take a new look at the subject, or take a break from administrative duties. I'm advicing this for your health, because the way you're writing about this, combined with the reality of administrating, seems like a very unhealthy combination.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Mashgash on August 16, 2012, 02:47:28 am
If I didn't wished to do this I shouldn't had occupied an administrator spot.

I am here to guide and that is what I am doing. I am not tired on the administration task. More like pissed off on the behaviour few of the players have.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Zaila on August 16, 2012, 02:50:28 am
Salmonella, take a look at what you have done, then talk. You are NOT in a position trying to educate us in how to do our work. I'm actually shocked that you still got the balls to tell mash what to do.

Great post Mash.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Chris_Knight on August 16, 2012, 02:50:51 am
This is internet with immature people,you can't ask what can't be achieved anyway.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Rick. on August 16, 2012, 02:53:21 am
The fuck nigga?
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: SugarD on August 16, 2012, 02:55:15 am
Even if it falls on deaf ears, what's wrong with trying to make a difference? If no one tries, nothing will be accomplished for sure. If someone tries, at least there's a chance for improvement. :)
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Chris_Knight on August 16, 2012, 03:01:03 am
This is not cartoon network but reality ,so those beautiful quotes are not in place. People always been that way and nothing else can be done as far humanity apparently won't decide be mature and respect each other because so far I haven't heard ,read or seen it since humanity's existence.  And even tho this topic is made regarding people arguing and acting like complete a.ssholes to each other,it will end up same in this topic. With arguments and being immature,trying prove empty points or win an argument.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 03:03:21 am
I am here to guide and that is what I am doing. I am not tired on the administration task. More like pissed off on the behaviour few of the players have.

Nobody likes it when players have incorrect behaviour or break rules, but being pissed off? Really? It's a really common phenomenon, and bringing so much anger to your task won't contribute in fixing the issue. A calm approach has a lot more effect on those misbehaving players, and will teach them a lot more than getting ''pissed off'' attitude on that which they think is right (misbehaving players don't realize they're doing something wrong when they're still committing the act). A calm administrator without stress will be able to talk to the player in a calm manner and explain them what they did wrong, inevitably avoiding a ban or other heavy punishment and cause overall satisfaction, and an overall slight decrease in misbehaviour in the community. That is how issues like this are really solved. Not topics they won't read, not punishment, not ''pissed off'' admins... Just a few conversations and they'll grow out of the behaviour sooner or later.

Salmonella, take a look at what you have done, then talk. You are NOT in a position trying to educate us in how to do our work. I'm actually shocked that you still got the balls to tell mash what to do.

I can advice whatever I want to advice and I can post whatever I feel like posting. I am not breaking any forum rules, and am actually shocked to see such a defensive reply coming from you. I don't need to be a community leader, moderator, administrator or manager to try and educate people. I believe I can contribute here and will continue to do so. Respect my views on the subject, just as I respect yours. I'm not going to discuss what ''I have done'' here. This isn't my unban request, you had all your chances to tell me what I supposedly would've done wrong, but stopped posting after I gave truth, a reply. I'm sorry, but if you still want to discuss earlier mistakes of mine, you're going to have to PM me, contact me on skype or contact me on MSN. I will have another conversation, or maybe two about it with you if you want, just not here.

Even if it falls on deaf ears, what's wrong with trying to make a difference? If no one tries, nothing will be accomplished for sure. If someone tries, at least there's a chance for improvement. :)

There's nothing wrong with trying to make a difference. This just doesn't make any. The work administrations (are supposed to) do ingame is what really helps, and seeing one of them complain about it is actually quite the contrary of that. I gave perfect examples of possible and proper solutions, which I believe will help Mash, or anyone else with similar intentions, in decreasing rulebreaking and the amount misbehaving players.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Chris_Knight on August 16, 2012, 03:04:47 am
And there it goes...  :lol:
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: SugarD on August 16, 2012, 03:06:14 am
There's nothing wrong with trying to make a difference. This just doesn't make any. The work administrations (are supposed to) do ingame is what really helps, and seeing one of them complain about it is actually quite the contrary of that. I gave perfect examples of possible and proper solutions, which I believe will help Mash, or anyone else with similair intentions, in decreasing rulebreaking and the amount misbehaving players.
The work they do is not all the work that needs to be done. Players are responsible for this community too, and even our own Argonath Vision covers that. Every little thing does help, even if it doesn't seem like it. That's why I said trying is more effective than not.

Admins dealing with the issue directly is not the only way to handle the problem. It should also be prevented before it happens, and that falls onto the players themselves to do.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Chris_Knight on August 16, 2012, 03:13:25 am
Guys you have to realize those guys are youngsters full of energy ,will to fight and having satisfy of winning. Being angry of losing and defending they beliefs.

We have all kinds of people in our community when ever they are mature,immature,old dwars or young hobbits.  :lol:

They do get angry ,they do get frustrated and they will always fight ,argue and brag who killed who on 1v1 because they are young.

The only way to change it is allow players above 18 or the ones having attitude as 18 so we make fully old not funny guy squad and play all relaxed and calm.

This is GTA a game of who dominates and proves own self,when ever it doesn't share everyone's beliefs,it still some of us does.  It's not an issue we are discussing here ,but more of a straight point that youngsters have too much fighting spirit.  :D
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 03:15:04 am
The work they do is not all the work that needs to be done. Players are responsible for this community too, and even our own Argonath Vision covers that. Every little thing does help, even if it doesn't seem like it. That's why I said trying is more effective than not.

As a player, I often try to help in maintaining a pleasant gameplay. Those around me will know what I'm talking about, and the majority of those around me does the exact same thing to the people that they play with. Just remaining calm and creating a pleasant atmosphere around the game will certainly help decreasing unpleasant experiences and automatically decrease the amount of rulebreaking and misbehaving players. Just dropping a comment in mainchat during a police chase like ''Almost got me there. :P'' or after a shootout, ''Nice fight. :)'' is what I'm talking about. Play well and automatically get others to play that way too.

I'm sure this topic ''does'' help, just not as much as other methods seen above. However, after looking at what has been posted, the topic as a whole seems a lot more useful to me. ;)
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Murt on August 16, 2012, 03:27:23 am
I do not believe Salmonella is trying to educate us here, just share his experiences as he is a former administrator with experience.

But to go on topic, I can really understand why Mash even made this topic, working as a moderator, administrator, manager or a leader within the community, especially SA:MP, you get frustrated from time to time. Sometimes you might get "pissed off" due to shitters, flamers, trollers or whatever it is. We are all humans and experiences it many times, even I.

Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Devin on August 16, 2012, 03:37:23 am
Something people must take into consideration, administrators are the same as every player, they also have loads on their plate to deal with and are always busy while ingame.
It's just a game, these shootouts/wars and so on, it's alright when done in the correct manner, but when not, it turns into giant arguments and causes more issues than good.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Morais on August 16, 2012, 03:39:47 am
And even tho this topic is made regarding people arguing and acting like complete a.ssholes to each other,it will end up same in this topic. With arguments and being immature,trying prove empty points or win an argument.

Wise Chris is wise.

My theory: People don't change. But they do grow.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 03:40:53 am
Wise Chris is wise.

My theory: People don't change. But they do grow.

Growing is changing, so yeah. Very wise words indeed.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Conroy on August 16, 2012, 03:44:17 am
Growing is changing, so yeah. Very wise words indeed.

:rofl:
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Morais on August 16, 2012, 03:48:15 am
Growing is changing, so yeah. Very wise words indeed.

Not always, it's more difficult to change the way you think than the way you act.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 03:48:52 am
Not always, it's more difficult to change the way you think than the way you act.

Are you seriously going to defend your earlier statement?  :banana:
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Morais on August 16, 2012, 03:51:44 am
If I thought it was wrong I would be the first to admit it! My skills aren't enough to elaborate it to a point of a decent discussion that's for sure.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Devin on August 16, 2012, 03:54:20 am
The least you guys can do is to stay on-topic.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: JDC on August 16, 2012, 05:54:04 am
The problem has been around for years and so has the solution. However, it continues to recur as not enough people utilize the latter.

Players should lead by example, and by that, I mean leading without complaining about how hard it is (and posting pretty topics on the forums with "No matter how much I teach them they still DM!"). They will be surprised at how much they can change.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: billy. on August 16, 2012, 06:44:51 am
i lost all my cash and respect cuz of some niggas
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: saberman on August 16, 2012, 06:55:48 am
An ordinary person will flame somebody else due to issues, because of anger. This post by Mash will not help to solve anything, as anger is part of human nature, and one cannot change that by these simple words. Although the purpose of this topic is understandable. The community is filled of immature people, with not-so-good parental care. The problem with these people is that they (most of them) will not accept or understand their fault, and they will instead lie or just say stuff to get unbanned.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 16, 2012, 10:23:40 am
The SA:MP community is in this position because we regretfully reward failure and condemn success.

To tackle this, we must address the issue around unbanning repeat offenders.

They are the underlying cause of our problems.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 11:27:01 am
The SA:MP community is in this position because we regretfully reward failure and condemn success.

To tackle this, we must address the issue around unbanning repeat offenders.

They are the underlying cause of our problems.
The real underlying cause of problems is a group of players who decide to disrupt instead of teach others. As such they set a bad example for new players, which is then pointed at.
Unless this group of talented players changes its ways, they will be banned before any repeat offender who at least tries to learn.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 16, 2012, 11:45:26 am
The real underlying cause of problems is a group of players who decide to disrupt instead of teach others. As such they set a bad example for new players, which is then pointed at.
Unless this group of talented players changes its ways, they will be banned before any repeat offender who at least tries to learn.

Addressing the root cause, which is repeat offenders (and those who are continously unbanned) will in turn inspire confidence in those willing to set good examples.

We cannot change others otherwise unless we are willing to change ourselves.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: duffman on August 16, 2012, 12:02:17 pm
Play with respect, honor and motivation.
I only play with my keyboard, but... Why all this blabla? Its just a game, a online game why all this?

You should get off computer games seriously, its affecting your mind. You/We have a life you should care about that.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 12:07:43 pm

We cannot change others otherwise unless we are willing to change ourselves.
Take that advice.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 12:23:18 pm
Addressing the root cause, which is repeat offenders (and those who are continously unbanned)

No. There are veterans who break rules. Big deal. They are being taken care of by the administration, just like they should. Why complain about that? Forgiveness is a nice thing, and I'm glad this community is a forgiving one. You shouldn't generalize people by calling them ''repeat offenders''. Every warning is different, every kick has different reasons behind them, every ban has its own story, and every player should be treated individually, with equal standards. There have been people with over 10 ingame bans, and yet they have been unbanned and given many chances. In the end, some of them learned, and others kept on rulebreaking. Why did they get these chances at all? Because people get equal treatment in here.

...will in turn inspire confidence in those willing to set good examples.

We cannot change others otherwise unless we are willing to change ourselves.

Wait, what? So because you're butthurt about people getting new and fresh chances in this community, you refuse to set a good example and refuse to help those who need it? Are you seriously letting that affect you in your behaviour? I guess this explains a lot of actual deathmatch, McDonalds spam, CJ spam, Balla spam, provoking, and loads of flooding (or the encouragement of flooding) that's seen when one thinks of the name Frank Hawk. I've seen all of the above, and it's not your obvious rulebreaking and bad behaviour that concerns me, but the fact that you appear to keep getting away with it. I truly believe that at this point, punishment would teach you more than a conversation, and that a ban will make you realize what you're doing wrong. I'm sorry to say it, but the way you're adressing this ''issue'' just isn't right.

I don't want to accuse the administration of not taking actions against certain players in this community because of their former reputation, because I can't see Personal Messaging traffic, but I would like to say that sometimes, just sometimes, punishment does a better job against these people.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 16, 2012, 12:28:10 pm
Take that advice.

In a hierachy, this advice must first be applied at the top for it to trickle down.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 16, 2012, 12:36:23 pm
I made it to make players wake up
Doesn't work like that, try again. I guess owners will understand what I mean.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Taylor_P on August 16, 2012, 12:37:31 pm
In a hierachy, this advice must first be applied at the top for it to trickle down.

Got to agree with Frank here.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 16, 2012, 12:45:41 pm
Nobody likes it when players have incorrect behaviour or break rules, but being pissed off? Really? It's a really common phenomenon, and bringing so much anger to your task won't contribute in fixing the issue.
And this is the guy who tells us about anger management. Quite hypocritic there.

Salmonella, take a look at what you have done, then talk. You are NOT in a position trying to educate us in how to do our work. I'm actually shocked that you still got the balls to tell mash what to do.

With all due respect, you ain't that better.

And my two cents: Has anyone else noticed that a moan topic started by a server admin? Then you realize something is wrong here...

Post Merge: August 16, 2012, 12:46:46 pm
The SA:MP community is in this position because we regretfully reward failure and condemn success.

To tackle this, we must address the issue around unbanning repeat offenders.

They are the underlying cause of our problems.
P.S.: Great job talking like that in an International community with

Quote
most population of age 15 and lower
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 12:50:39 pm
And this is the guy who tells us about anger management. Quite hypocritic there.

What are you talking about? Be clear if you're going to state big accusations.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 16, 2012, 12:58:24 pm
What are you talking about? Be clear if you're going to state big accusations.
I'll leave it up to your thinking and thinking of others', as Zaila already pointed out.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 01:02:06 pm
I'll leave it up to your thinking and thinking of others', as Zaila already pointed out.

Okay, an empty statement. Nice. I don't know who you are, so I wouldn't know what I've done to you to deserve this. I advice you to look at my posts instead of my name. Do you really think I would even try talking to Frank Hawk if I'd take his past with me into consideration? No. I look at people's messages, not their names.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 16, 2012, 01:04:32 pm
Okay, an empty statement. Nice. I don't know who you are, so I wouldn't know what I've done to you to deserve this. I advice you to look at my posts instead of my name. Do you really think I would even try talking to Frank Hawk if I'd take his past with me into consideration? No. I look at people's messages, not their names.
My last post which will be directed towards your "productive teachings" in this thread.

Believe what you want and how you want, but the real reason behind me avoiding any elaborations on this due topic is because I'm fully and well aware of your stubborn and prideful attitude towards arguing against you, and you know it yourself you will write a 10-thousand word essay on how I am completely wrong when, in the deepest of your doubts, you know I'm right.

And on the last catch, if you don't know who I am, why bother? ;)
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 16, 2012, 01:12:46 pm
My last post which will be directed towards your "productive teachings" in this thread.

Believe what you want and how you want, but the real reason behind me avoiding any elaborations on this due topic is because I'm fully and well aware of your stubborn and prideful attitude towards arguing against you, and you know it yourself you will write a 10-thousand word essay on how I am completely wrong when, in the deepest of your doubts, you know I'm right.

And on the last catch, if you don't know who I am, why bother? ;)

The statement remains empty. Yeah, I don't know who you are, but I'd like to clear up any issues you might have encountered with me. I don't believe I'm being stubborn when I just ask for a reason behind your statement. Yet you wish to make up excuses as to why you're unable to do so. You're contradicting yourself here constantly. First you say you're replying on the content in my messages, and the next thing I know I'm reading yet another excuse of yours so that you won't have to reply on the actual content.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 01:59:52 pm
In a hierachy, this advice must first be applied at the top for it to trickle down.
Which is why you are strongly adviced to take your own advice.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 16, 2012, 02:39:35 pm
Which is why you are strongly adviced to take your own advice.

I would, but I don't belong to any hierachy apart from the hierachy of the community where I'm a ordinary member.

As a member, I'm questioning why we are repeatedly unbanning those who repeatedly offend?

This action is demoralising many including me and raising the question, why are we diluting our community?
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 03:58:13 pm
I would, but I don't belong to any hierachy apart from the hierachy of the community where I'm a ordinary member.

As a member, I'm questioning why we are repeatedly unbanning those who repeatedly offend?

This action is demoralising many including me and raising the question, why are we diluting our community?
Most who ask this question are banned and in another community. They would love to have the same chance, maybe you will be in a similar position one day. Perhaps then you will find it a positive that we tend to unban people.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Lincoln. on August 16, 2012, 04:08:00 pm
Most who ask this question are banned and in another community. They would love to have the same chance, maybe you will be in a similar position one day. Perhaps then you will find it a positive that we tend to unban people.

Sf_Sa got unbanned even if he was hacking weapons and selling them for 0.3 and 0.5$ per bullet and was getting people banned, beside the other hacks he was having. He ruined the business, people were buying weapons for a lot more higher price and were selling them for 10-20 percent higher than they buy, but the prices went down a lot thanks to Sf_Sa.
He got a second chance, even if he did all these stupid actions, but why? Why should such a member of the community get unbanned after 1 year or less? A lot of people get banned for DM and sometimes they get an unban after 3-4months, DM is nothing for the hacks and ruining the economy and people's business but it takes only a few months more to get an unban if you hack.
Honestly, I love the community and I have nothing against it besides the unban of Sf_Sa. I know it's not my job to decide whether you're right or not, but I couldn't read this and not post my opinion.


Sincerely,
Lincoln.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Emre on August 16, 2012, 04:14:05 pm
hey man these guys all no life they fail in real life they shit irl no friends so they troll in forums troll ingame troll troll troll blabla flame man all time cybercrime omfg

Get yourself straight and deal with the fact that things down in the internet are not to be taken serious and you act as if someone bullied your most sensitive spot. I'm not saying that the internet is a complete reflectance of 4chan as you guys like to use as an example, but either way ...

To shoot on Frank's question why people should be unbanned after doing certain mistakes that got themselves banned ; People need a few chances to get a push that says "Do it right, you do not have many chances here." Of course, the irony speaks for incidents that happened with former members of this community. To share my personal opinion about what you stated : You repeatedly pollute the game's mainchat with fattalk, food talk, ballas stuff, anti-CJ stuff, did the lastly mentioned thing on the forums aswell and now you are in the position to call yourself lucky that nobody gave you any punishment for that but you are in no position to question a thing like that. Why I think so? Finland did the same in much bigger intervals and got banned. Think about it.


-E out
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 04:17:20 pm
Sf_Sa got unbanned even if he was hacking weapons and selling them for 0.3 and 0.5$ per bullet and was getting people banned, beside the other hacks he was having. He ruined the business, people were buying weapons for a lot more higher price and were selling them for 10-20 percent higher than they buy, but the prices went down a lot thanks to Sf_Sa.
He got a second chance, even if he did all these stupid actions, but why? Why should such a member of the community get unbanned after 1 year or less? A lot of people get banned for DM and sometimes they get an unban after 3-4months, DM is nothing for the hacks and ruining the economy and people's business but it takes only a few months more to get an unban if you hack.
Honestly, I love the community and I have nothing against it besides the unban of Sf_Sa. I know it's not my job to decide whether you're right or not, but I couldn't read this and not post my opinion.


Sincerely,
Lincoln.
First of all, pointing at one player is a very bad example.
SF_SA was unbanned after an ever increasing ban time, and currently is banned until 2013, providing we do not catch him ban evading until then.
Like every other unban. we consider the circumstances and the backstory.
It is funny that people point at his bans and unbans, while many have profited from receiving a large stock of cheap weapons. I am sure that if we would take the time to actually remove every bullet that was produced by cheating many of the mafias would have no stocks left.
Next time a weapon hacker offers you cheap weapons, perhaps refuse him in light of your problem with SF_Sa.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Murt on August 16, 2012, 04:22:47 pm
First of all, pointing at one player is a very bad example.
SF_SA was unbanned after an ever increasing ban time, and currently is banned until 2013, providing we do not catch him ban evading until then.
Like every other unban. we consider the circumstances and the backstory.
It is funny that people point at his bans and unbans, while many have profited from receiving a large stock of cheap weapons. I am sure that if we would take the time to actually remove every bullet that was produced by cheating many of the mafias would have no stocks left.
Next time a weapon hacker offers you cheap weapons, perhaps refuse him in light of your problem with SF_Sa.

Unlucky for him he has been caught three times already  :rofl:
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 04:24:58 pm
Unlucky for him he has been caught three times already  :rofl:
According to him it was his friend. Poor guy, first his brother sets him up and now his friend.... ;)
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Lincoln. on August 16, 2012, 04:25:59 pm
First of all, pointing at one player is a very bad example.
SF_SA was unbanned after an ever increasing ban time, and currently is banned until 2013, providing we do not catch him ban evading until then.
Like every other unban. we consider the circumstances and the backstory.
It is funny that people point at his bans and unbans, while many have profited from receiving a large stock of cheap weapons. I am sure that if we would take the time to actually remove every bullet that was produced by cheating many of the mafias would have no stocks left.
Next time a weapon hacker offers you cheap weapons, perhaps refuse him in light of your problem with SF_Sa.

I guess he won't read this thread since he doesn't give a fuck about Argonath since he's hacking and rulebreaking constantly.

Yes, I agree that a lot of people profited, but what that has to do with his unban? My friend got permanently banned because he couldn't control his anger while a hacker and a rulebreaker gets the second chance, gets banned again and then again has a third chance in 2013.
There is no next time, I was never offered to buy cheap weapons but I was informed by more than 20 people that some guy is selling 9,999 bullets every day of every weapon and making money. Every guy who has buying weapons from him could have made 1mil+ in one week, that's why we have a proble with RP in the community. People were RolePlaying earning money in a RP way while now, everyone has money and spending 2k is like spending 200$ back in 2009 and 2010.
I cannot say that some people who have a lot of money do not RolePlay, they do, but the, basically new players, ignore the RolePlay and open fire to show you how strong and rich they are because they have 500 M4 bullets and a 2k armor.

Unlucky for him he has been caught three times already  :rofl:

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 04:31:30 pm
I guess he won't read this thread since he doesn't give a f**k about Argonath since he's hacking and rulebreaking constantly.

Yes, I agree that a lot of people profited, but what that has to do with his unban? My friend got permanently banned because he couldn't control his anger while a hacker and a rulebreaker gets the second chance, gets banned again and then again has a third chance in 2013.
There is no next time, I was never offered to buy cheap weapons but I was informed by more than 20 people that some guy is selling 9,999 bullets every day of every weapon and making money. Every guy who has buying weapons from him could have made 1mil+ in one week, that's why we have a proble with RP in the community. People were RolePlaying earning money in a RP way while now, everyone has money and spending 2k is like spending 200$ back in 2009 and 2010.
I cannot say that some people who have a lot of money do not RolePlay, they do, but the, basically new players, ignore the RolePlay and open fire to show you how strong and rich they are because they have 500 M4 bullets and a 2k armor.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
If your friend who could not control his anger would want, he might be unbanned as well. But as long as he keeps pointing at others and being angry, there is no use.
As for the money and other situations, we are tackling this in RS5. Before we will already start some lockdown, but I believe the people who are most vocal in their complaints are the ones who will suffer first.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Murt on August 16, 2012, 04:33:32 pm
I guess he won't read this thread since he doesn't give a f**k about Argonath since he's hacking and rulebreaking constantly.

Yes, I agree that a lot of people profited, but what that has to do with his unban? My friend got permanently banned because he couldn't control his anger while a hacker and a rulebreaker gets the second chance, gets banned again and then again has a third chance in 2013.
There is no next time, I was never offered to buy cheap weapons but I was informed by more than 20 people that some guy is selling 9,999 bullets every day of every weapon and making money. Every guy who has buying weapons from him could have made 1mil+ in one week, that's why we have a proble with RP in the community. People were RolePlaying earning money in a RP way while now, everyone has money and spending 2k is like spending 200$ back in 2009 and 2010.
I cannot say that some people who have a lot of money do not RolePlay, they do, but the, basically new players, ignore the RolePlay and open fire to show you how strong and rich they are because they have 500 M4 bullets and a 2k armor.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not every player get treated the same in the unban section, it really depends what they have done, how much they have repeated it, how much bans they have had and so on.

There are various of factors to look in to. So there is no point of comparing of how some get a fast unban and some do not.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Devin on August 16, 2012, 04:43:02 pm
You play with fire, you will get burnt.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: AryaN on August 16, 2012, 04:45:04 pm
I usually saw many players use hacks when they are new in sa-mp and i'm one of them. My name was Ankit_Master and I was also banned for weapon hacks , airbreak and for many other hacks and i had ban evaded like 7-8 times. But atlast, when i spent my 1 year on sa-mp, I came to know about the purpose of sa-mp is to play for fun and that can be possible by playing fair and i came back to server and appealed for unban. I was so happy that i got unbanned. Everyone should have one chance in his life.

Sincerely,
Dexter_Corleone
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 16, 2012, 04:45:31 pm
Most who ask this question are banned and in another community. They would love to have the same chance, maybe you will be in a similar position one day. Perhaps then you will find it a positive that we tend to unban people.

I'm neither and plan to keep it that way.

My question remains unanswered. Why are players, who are repeatedly banned (5+) unbanned?

Why are we undermining the efforts of community members by not addressing this issue?

Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 04:46:50 pm
I'm neither and plan to keep it that way.

My question remains unanswered. Why are players, who are repeatedly banned (5+) unbanned?

Why are we undermining the efforts of community members by not addressing this issue?
Because we feel they can make a more positive contribution to the server than those complaining elsewhere.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Lincoln. on August 16, 2012, 05:03:17 pm
If your friend who could not control his anger would want, he might be unbanned as well. But as long as he keeps pointing at others and being angry, there is no use.
As for the money and other situations, we are tackling this in RS5. Before we will already start some lockdown, but I believe the people who are most vocal in their complaints are the ones who will suffer first.

Well, I cannot say anything different from you, I agree.


Not every player get treated the same in the unban section, it really depends what they have done, how much they have repeated it, how much bans they have had and so on.

There are various of factors to look in to. So there is no point of comparing of how some get a fast unban and some do not.

You're right as well.


I'm neither and plan to keep it that way.

My question remains unanswered. Why are players, who are repeatedly banned (5+) unbanned?

Why are we undermining the efforts of community members by not addressing this issue?



You know, people who get banned 3-4 times in a row promise that they will not repeat that action, blah blah blah, and when they get denied for the first time, they decide to change their attitude and once they get unbanned after 2 months of waiting, they become great players.
I had an experience with getting banned 5 times for the same reason just because I couldn't control my anger, and when I got unbanned after 3 and a half months, I've changed my attitude and I didn't get a single ban since then.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 05:18:40 pm

You know, people who get banned 3-4 times in a row promise that they will not repeat that action, blah blah blah, and when they get denied for the first time, they decide to change their attitude and once they get unbanned after 2 months of waiting, they become great players.
I had an experience with getting banned 5 times for the same reason just because I couldn't control my anger, and when I got unbanned after 3 and a half months, I've changed my attitude and I didn't get a single ban since then.
Which means that according to some, you should not have had this chance at all. ;)
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 16, 2012, 05:27:23 pm
Well, I cannot say anything different from you, I agree.


You're right as well.


You know, people who get banned 3-4 times in a row promise that they will not repeat that action, blah blah blah, and when they get denied for the first time, they decide to change their attitude and once they get unbanned after 2 months of waiting, they become great players.
I had an experience with getting banned 5 times for the same reason just because I couldn't control my anger, and when I got unbanned after 3 and a half months, I've changed my attitude and I didn't get a single ban since then.

Which means that according to some, you should not have had this chance at all. ;)


Good rationale to a degree.

In light of this, I agree with Lincoln and Gandalf in allowing people to return below 3-4 bans.

Anybody over this however should be given longer bans in the excess of 6 months to hold them accountable for their actions.

Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 16, 2012, 06:11:03 pm
Sf_Sa got unbanned even if he was hacking weapons and selling them for 0.3 and 0.5$ per bullet and was getting people banned, beside the other hacks he was having. He ruined the business, people were buying weapons for a lot more higher price and were selling them for 10-20 percent higher than they buy, but the prices went down a lot thanks to Sf_Sa.
He got a second chance, even if he did all these stupid actions, but why? Why should such a member of the community get unbanned after 1 year or less? A lot of people get banned for DM and sometimes they get an unban after 3-4months, DM is nothing for the hacks and ruining the economy and people's business but it takes only a few months more to get an unban if you hack.
Honestly, I love the community and I have nothing against it besides the unban of Sf_Sa. I know it's not my job to decide whether you're right or not, but I couldn't read this and not post my opinion.


Sincerely,
Lincoln.

Economy was already ruined by default.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Gandalf on August 16, 2012, 06:31:09 pm
Good rationale to a degree.

In light of this, I agree with Lincoln and Gandalf in allowing people to return below 3-4 bans.

Anybody over this however should be given longer bans in the excess of 6 months to hold them accountable for their actions.
If you check the unban section you might have noticed that since the times of Cutter and Kojak the unban times have been raised considerably, with as added bonus that they are published in the unban topic.
Managers are able to decide based on the information known to them while handling how long time is appropriate. In general HQ will interfere only if there is a very good reason, and the managers will know this reason and have possibility to object in case of a "famous" offender.

We do not work with a fixed number, or a fixed way of punishing. This has its disadvantages as it can be seen as 'random' and 'unequal', but at the same time it stops players from considering that they still have 2 bans to go before being removed a longer time.
In general, after being banned two times there is a good change every next ban will obtain a more and more extended time. However it also depends on the offense, for some their first ban is enough for a community routeblock.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 16, 2012, 07:11:29 pm
If you check the unban section you might have noticed that since the times of Cutter and Kojak the unban times have been raised considerably, with as added bonus that they are published in the unban topic.
Managers are able to decide based on the information known to them while handling how long time is appropriate. In general HQ will interfere only if there is a very good reason, and the managers will know this reason and have possibility to object in case of a "famous" offender.

We do not work with a fixed number, or a fixed way of punishing. This has its disadvantages as it can be seen as 'random' and 'unequal', but at the same time it stops players from considering that they still have 2 bans to go before being removed a longer time.
In general, after being banned two times there is a good change every next ban will obtain a more and more extended time. However it also depends on the offense, for some their first ban is enough for a community routeblock.

Thanks for explaining.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Dolfagr on August 16, 2012, 09:45:59 pm
If players do not comply with the rules, then they may find themselves in the wrong community or worse, banned for good.



Title: Re: A message...
Post by: JDC on August 17, 2012, 07:11:33 am
I myself once asked the same questions Frank is asking now.

Upon first arriving in this community, I saw the limitations Aragorn initially set on bans, which was only one chance for unban after getting banned for hacks. I then questioned why unbans were being granted leniently (apparently), and it took some time before I understood why the HQ works on a case-by-case basis.

For instance, if a well-known controversial gangster/mafioso is banned along with a random new player for the same offense, then the probability is very high that the former's punishment will be longer. Factors such as previous punishment history are taken into consideration as well, and in some cases (i.e: Flaken), an ultimatum is given.

Membership in this community is something that is open for everyone who is willing to respect our community and system. People make mistakes, and get banned, and yet we give them the chance to redeem themselves. However, you will also see that the HQ has denied unbans to those who have utterly refused to change.

An example is Mario Rinna, who once held the record for the most bans on SA:MP (I do not know who the current record holder is, will check later), which was around 10 bans. Now, he is an administrator on the Argonath Wiki as well as an MTA:SA admin who contributes to the ingame structure.

It is not the number of bans that you have under your belt which determines if you are capable of changing for the better, but rather, your own actions.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 17, 2012, 11:12:42 am

An example is Mario Rinna, who once held the record for the most bans on SA:MP (I do not know who the current record holder is, will check later), which was around 10 bans.

Nope.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 17, 2012, 01:27:53 pm
Nope.

Boyz 'N the Hood- "You think you tough" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WePfWC8hsZw#ws)
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 17, 2012, 01:48:11 pm
Boyz 'N the Hood- "You think you tough" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WePfWC8hsZw#ws)
The Room - "Leave your stupid comments in your pocket!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfUj4QJGnok#ws)
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 17, 2012, 01:59:48 pm
The Room - "Leave your stupid comments in your pocket!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfUj4QJGnok#ws)

At least you have a good taste in movies..

YOU ARE TEARING ME APART LISA
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: BlackEagle on August 17, 2012, 03:04:28 pm
Why are players, who are repeatedly banned (5+) unbanned?
Why are we undermining the efforts of community members by not addressing this issue?
I've been in this community for like 4 years now. If I summarize my actions I can say that I've been a total asshole, rulebreaker, flamer, hacker and everything bad in first 3 years. If the leaders were as unforgiving as you say, I'd be community banned 2 years ago when I received my 5th ban.
Forgiving me over and over was a bad move by leaders? Well I've been clean for almost a year now (except an incident in which I stabbed Gandalf to death lol) and I'm trying to contribute to the community in any way I can.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: diddeh on August 17, 2012, 04:01:34 pm
cute message
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 17, 2012, 07:10:59 pm
I've been in this community for like 4 years now. If I summarize my actions I can say that I've been a total asshole, rulebreaker, flamer, hacker and everything bad in first 3 years. If the leaders were as unforgiving as you say, I'd be community banned 2 years ago when I received my 5th ban.
Forgiving me over and over was a bad move by leaders? Well I've been clean for almost a year now (except an incident in which I stabbed Gandalf to death lol) and I'm trying to contribute to the community in any way I can.

Personally, I would have not been so forgiving.

The rules are clear and by repeatedly breaking those rules or being banned demonstrate no willingness to change.

I'm growing tired of watching positive efforts being overshadowed by actions of others.

You've done well Lance - your a exception among many others. It has not gone unnoticed.  ;)
 
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Salmonella on August 17, 2012, 07:16:10 pm
Your posts get more ironic every day..
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 17, 2012, 08:01:06 pm
Personally, I would have not been so forgiving.

The rules are clear and by repeatedly breaking those rules or being banned demonstrate no willingness to change.

I'm growing tired of watching positive efforts being overshadowed by actions of others.

Your posts get more ironic every day..
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Emre on August 17, 2012, 08:28:08 pm
Your posts get more ironic every day..
MADE MY DAY.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Jack Rosso on August 17, 2012, 09:36:00 pm
This is internet with immature people,you can't ask what can't be achieved anyway.

oh yes you can.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Kirgiz on August 17, 2012, 10:27:43 pm
Oh, please, lock this topic, it's just another moan topic that will leave nowhere.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: JDC on August 17, 2012, 10:42:40 pm
Personally, I would have not been so forgiving.

The rules are clear and by repeatedly breaking those rules or being banned demonstrate no willingness to change.

I'm growing tired of watching positive efforts being overshadowed by actions of others.

You've done well Lance - your a exception among many others. It has not gone unnoticed.  ;)
It would help if you dropped the double standards in your actions, such as commending those who you condemned, and vice versa.

It doesn't matter if I sugarcoated the above sentence or not, I know we can still understand it the same regardless.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: Frank_Hawk on August 17, 2012, 10:49:42 pm
It would help if you dropped the double standards in your actions, such as commending those who you condemned, and vice versa.

It doesn't matter if I sugarcoated the above sentence or not, I know we can still understand it the same regardless.

It would certainly help, if you choose to read the intention of the message rather than around it.
Title: Re: A message...
Post by: iDavid on August 18, 2012, 04:20:08 pm
One dark night in august 2008 Mr. "David_Barzini" thought; "hey, maybi a moneyhacks will helps me get rich." so he found one and hacked. He was banned that very night by [WS]Hyper.
He did first make a casino lie in his unban request, then he tried the "brother lie". At last he understood he had to admit his flaws, and got unbanned at last, the date was 27th August 2008, that is almost exactly 4 years from now, and here I am, iDavid. Scripter and administratior for the best server(imo) of our wonderful community. "Forgive and forget" is something you all should learn, this community is not "held up" by Gandalf, the A-team nor us developers.. It is the loyal members that keep Argonath alive, nobody's perfect, and every have their flaws, we all just have to accept it.

Let the ones who understand what they do wrong, and at least tries to fix it get another chance.

United we stand, divided we fall.

 -iD.
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