Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: TheLegitHabibi on March 01, 2013, 01:17:45 pm
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Hi.
As we know there is a constant argument that Aegonath is not a RL RP served and due to which many ideas are not accepted. I completely agree with that. However the roleplay we currently have, needs some restrictions and enforcent.
Mostly people complain about the roleplay dying here. Well, its not true, but to some extent we are deviating from it.
I want to discuss the possible pros and coins on restricting the roleplay.
What I mean is, it should be made sure that people rain within the decent limits of roleplay or get punished via admins.
I'm writing this due to a recent situation.
I saw a guy inside a casino gambling. There was some situation and the dealer aimed a gun at me.
I called 911 and cops arrived and he started coming me about how he's here to gamble and not Roleplay.
As far as I know, you're supposed to roleplay with everyone you encounter in game, if you can't, you should /q.
Furthermore these "events" hosted destroy the roleplay. I'm specifically talking about Kill The Guy events. I used to host them, but after talking with Pancher I found out how wrong these events can be. Not only cops interrupt in them, thinking its roleplay, new players get the idea of Deming and are misled.
Yet after my events were canceled I saw those events being hosted again. They shouldn't be.
Furthermore the non-roleplay by people. It is completely common to see plane landings at City Hall, bike stunting, car clippings, and 2 friends punching each other. This has to stop. Often it is seen that even 2 Adkins are having fun by punching each other.which I believe also misleads new players thinking that they can just punch each other.
I believe that we are slowly shifting to a free roam type of server instead of roleplay.
Again these are my beliefs and I want to discuss them. I may be right, I may be wrong.
Post Merge: March 01, 2013, 01:19:30 pm
I just re read that. There are quite a few mistakes due to autocorrwction as I typed this from my phone.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Please discuss.
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Roleplaying cannot be refused, but can not be forced either.
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Basically wanting the entirety of the system turned in another direction.
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While us, forum roamers, know the difference, regular Joe who just logs on doesn't. Once you tell them roleplay can't be refuse, they yell about us forcing them to roleplay.
However, as to the point that we're shifting to freeroam... well, I always thought that's what makes Argonath a world of it's own, unique. Freedom, being able to roleplay and not roleplay at the same time, if you know what I mean.
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Don't know what to say actually. You are from one side right and from another not. I belive the same,when i was back in my first days in 2011 i remember the loads of people doing big rp events,rolling out with ballas. Also many say that new players should have a cop training. I disagree,as from their mistakes they will learn the right thing. The matter is not to get to the time that they have to make that "mistake" I don't fully agree with James but a little i do. Situation is going to be out of limits. When a player register,CLEAR all the things that are contained. "What's your point in Argonath" "What RP Is" "Rules" (Let's clear that it's not excuse *He's new* We should clear from the start the rules and with further commands that will be shown. Like "As you have read all those do you agree with our Rules?" "Yes" "No" if the player says "Yes" a small list will show "/helpscam" "/helpmoney" /helpscam like : In Argonath RPG You can gamble,trade illegal stuff. The transfer of stuff isn't always succesful. There are people that scam you. Scam? Scam is when they don't complete the transfer. Like giving your money to gamble,you win and the dealer don't give you the money. In this case,you should take ss * etc. etc. etc. Can you understand what i say?
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I kinda agree with this, I am sick of people refusing to roleplay anything.
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Roleplaying cannot be refused, but can not be forced either.
Yeah, that's an obvious contradiction and something should be done about it. You can't tell people not to force roleplay, and at the same time not to refuse roleplay, it's just the complete opposite. One of the two must be dropped, and for the sake of roleplay, dropping the 'you can't refuse roleplay' would be the right choice.
I'm writing this due to a recent situation.
I saw a guy inside a casino gambling. There was some situation and the dealer aimed a gun at me.
I called 911 and cops arrived and he started coming me about how he's here to gamble and not Roleplay.
As far as I know, you're supposed to roleplay with everyone you encounter in game, if you can't, you should /q.
And as far as I know, gambling is roleplaying in a roleplay server. I can definitely imagine the frustration, and I personally don't like seeing this happen ingame either, but even although he's misinformed about what gambling is, he currently has the right to act like this and not go along with the roleplay scenario you tried to start. This can seen as a bad thing, but there's also good sides to it. For one, although in this particular case it doesn't seem so good, this is freedom. Freedom to refuse to roleplay with people when you just don't want to, no questions asked, complete freedom. This freedom also allows everyone to roleplay whatever they want, taking their limit to their creativity, doing everything they want in ArgonathRPG, as long as it's within the boundaries of the rules.
I don't believe you can make hundreds of restrictions and have partial freedom. It's either all in, or all gone. I actually can't imagine what Argonath would be like with the restrictions you're proposing we should add. I don't think they would necessarily be bad, I just think it would change the concept of the server we play in.
Furthermore these "events" hosted destroy the roleplay. I'm specifically talking about Kill The Guy events. I used to host them, but after talking with Pancher I found out how wrong these events can be. Not only cops interrupt in them, thinking its roleplay, new players get the idea of Deming and are misled. Yet after my events were canceled I saw those events being hosted again. They shouldn't be.
This is nothing new. Xcasio often (used to) host(s) events involving a hunt for a person, like 'Kill the Mexican', and I do understand your concern. I also remember an admin which I won't name here, hosting an event called 'Team Deathmatch'. I didn't think that was acceptable, and after interfering and discussing it with that admin, I think it was renamed to 'paintball'. Paintball should be on the edge of what is and what shouldn't be allowed, if you ask me. It involves a roleplayed organization, organized teams, is hosted at an area away from 'general population', and doesn't intend death (meaning you shouldn't go lower than 20HP or something).
Furthermore the non-roleplay by people. It is completely common to see plane landings at City Hall, bike stunting, car clippings, and 2 friends punching each other. This has to stop. Often it is seen that even 2 Adkins are having fun by punching each other.which I believe also misleads new players thinking that they can just punch each other.
I believe that we are slowly shifting to a free roam type of server instead of roleplay.
Back in 2007 to early 2009 we used to kick people for 'non-RP'. This was changed because people no longer wanted these limitations. Ever since, people have been trying to bring it back. Recently, someone was banned for not taking roleplay serious, so I think they are actually being brought back at last. Not that that's a good thing... I recall being kicked from the server in 2008, for flying a Nevada as freecop, being told that I shouldn't be on duty when flying aircraft. Argonath was pretty 'strict' about stuff like this for a while. There used to be a very famous SWAT Captain by the name of James Hunter. I don't think there was anyone who didn't somehow look up to him. I myself had a lot of respect for him back when he was a SWAT Captain. I was with a few people, doing some kind of criminal act at Santa Marina Beach, and he and his team raided us. He had us stand up against the wall and frisked us. After that, he asked everyone separately what we were doing. I gave an answer, and PMed it to my friends, so that my answer would match theirs. Not exactly a roleplay way, and I don't think I would do that again. As soon as my friend answered the same, James Hunter left the scene and PMed me that he knew I told him to say that. He didn't want to RP with us anymore because that was considered an act of non-RP.
PMing your friends when you're in roleplay trouble is something that happens a lot now, and honestly, there's nothing that can be done about it. Some people hate it, and some people just don't realize that it changes the entire atmosphere of the roleplay scenario. I wouldn't do it anymore, because I found out that it's a lot more fun to just roleplay and let the scenario overwhelm you. When you can, grab your cellphone and phone your friends, and just hope your kidnappers or robbers don't notice. That's the true fun in roleplay, where anything can happen, and you never know when or what it'll be. Another example, some of the very first gangwars as we know them today, were monitored by the entire admin team, in Grove Street. It was all orchestrated, it felt like a play, really. The administration decided when we could open fire and where we could stand. We weren't even allowed to hide on the roofs (camping).
I didn't like this at all, and I'm glad that we now have the freedom to roleplay the way we like, decide when we want to open fire on the 'enemies' we're roleplaying with, how we do it, and where we do it. I also enjoy the freedom of taking a break from the more serious roleplay scenarios I take part in, and fly a dodo low over the streets of Pershing Square, and land on top of City Hall with it. This is reality in Argonath, a huge amount of diversity among the players and the way they play. You've got to look for roleplay oppertunities, and the players are usually divided into different groups. Groups that may not roleplay a robbery, or a car show, or a barbecue together for that matter, but can be found alongside in events like a destruction derby, planesurfing, or just plain acting crazy on the city hall rooftop. This is what makes Argonath a true community and defines it. Without the full freedom, it wouldn't be the same.
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Owners should try to dumb the old "No forced free roleplay" system, because it's really starting to be abused.
I think that we should try using the "low restricted roleplay"
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À mon avis, if you come onto a RP based server, you come to RP. But then again, I wouldn't punish for it.
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The thing that really gets on my nerves is that roleplaying an agent and putting a criminal in mordor when he doesn't want it, is considered forcing roleplay.
I know he can't run away without rule break, and thus considered forced rp, but it shouldn't. I mean that's what a cop does. I can't even roleplay my job.....
Ain't my problem he decided to kill 20 cops.
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The biggest issue in my opinion is that players do not know the correct definition of "force rp". It it is used to evade one roleplay scenario in order to arrive to another. If people can realise that we can not have an excuse as "i am gonna rp with my friends so i can not rp with you" we will have solved a lot of this issue.
Force rp is when you not letting the other player do anything. You decide how it begins and how it ends. RP is defined as interaction between two or more players. You do not interact by writing "/me shoots and kills Mash", you just finish the rp the way you want it without letting the other player(s) talk or contribute.
Overall it is RP, but as many of us in here do not like to lose the RP-level lowers and pointless discussions starts. Instead of playing for fun and entertainment, we play to win and gain assets. If we lose, we payback by rule-breaking. If we just can realize the game is for fun and we relax and laugh while we create epic scenarios will the server and the atmosphere be a much calmer and funnier place.
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Force rp is when you not letting the other player do anything. You decide how it begins and how it ends. RP is defined as interaction between two or more players. You do not interact by writing "/me shoots and kills Mash", you just finish the rp the way you want it without letting the other player(s) talk or contribute.
I never interpreted it that way... My interpretation of the rule is that you can't force people to go along in your RP, so that the other party can refuse any time, which is why I said the two contradict each other. If it is true what you're saying, then the rule, 'you can't force RP', should perhaps get a different name. It is kind of confusing, and a lot of people, including administrators, including me as an administrator, have enforced the rule as if it means that people have a choice any time to decide if they want to roleplay or not.
Great to finally know the true meaning, anyways. :)
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This topic may be of interest to you all:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900.0)
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Just to add to the conversation, i consider this as forced RP: (https://www.florianvandillen.nl/images/GO7l9R.png)
Why? I should be able to react to the "jump". I should be able to at least try and resist the "tape". The other player shouldn't have decided the outcome of that specific piece of RP.
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Just to add to the conversation, i consider this as forced RP: (https://www.florianvandillen.nl/images/GO7l9R.png)
Why? I should be able to react to the "jump". I should be able to at least try and resist the "tape". The other player shouldn't have decided the outcome of that specific piece of RP.
Perfect example.
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Perfect example.
My first time being kidnapped as a cop today :rofl:
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Just to add to the conversation, i consider this as forced RP: (https://www.florianvandillen.nl/images/GO7l9R.png)
Why? I should be able to react to the "jump". I should be able to at least try and resist the "tape". The other player shouldn't have decided the outcome of that specific piece of RP.
A great example of the typical "I must win" mentality we currently experience in Argonath.
I am just curious. Did you went along with the RP?
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A great example of the typical "I must win" mentality we currently experience in Argonath.
I am just curious. Did you went along with the RP?
Yes, i did, and i ended up getting shot and killed. I don't refuse RP, even though this was just some RP as a cheap excuse for DM.
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Yes, i did, and i ended up getting shot and killed. I don't refuse RP, even though this was just some RP as a cheap excuse for DM.
Yes sadly some people think if they kidnap or rob the outcome is to get what they want and then kill you.
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The thing that really gets on my nerves is that roleplaying an agent and putting a criminal in mordor when he doesn't want it, is considered forcing roleplay.
I know he can't run away without rule break, and thus considered forced rp, but it shouldn't. I mean that's what a cop does. I can't even roleplay my job.....
Ain't my problem he decided to kill 20 cops.
Quite an interesting one actually...I'd argue that if someone has surrendered to the police, they have also surrendered to the police officer ultimately deciding the outcome of the role-play. I can appreciate that if someone needs to leave the server, they don't want a long investigation, but if they just want to get back to their "family", then why did they get themselves suspected to start with?
In an ideal world, if all police officers respected these boundaries, then I wouldn't see why taking an unwilling suspect to mordor is a problem? Last time I checked, most criminals who have been arrested are unwilling to go to a high security prison!
A great example of the typical "I must win" mentality we currently experience in Argonath.
I am just curious. Did you went along with the RP?
That's an interesting one! In RP's, part of the fun is sometimes losing...! The modern mentality (not just in Argonath) is to "win"...as it makes people think they have bigger balls.
Really, the one who aims to make the most mutually enjoyable roleplay is the one who should be pleased with themselves.
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My first rps was lame it was [give me 10k withing 10 seconds or you die, and it always ended with shooting. but the DM rule is easy to circumvent
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My first rps was lame it was [give me 10k withing 10 seconds or you die, and it always ended with shooting. but the DM rule is easy to circumvent
For that situation, you can report it to admins immediately and refuse to RP with them. That is clearly forced roleplay for the intention of greed and abusing new players. If they DM'ed you after the fact, then they are not only setting a bad example for new players, but they are also deserving of punishment from admins for it.
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For that situation, you can report it to admins immediately and refuse to RP with them. That is clearly forced roleplay for the intention of greed and abusing new players. If they DM'ed you after the fact, then they are not only setting a bad example for new players, but they are also deserving of punishment from admins for it.
Yes but i was new when i made those rps to ;p i didnt know what an rpg server really was then. When i look back it was pure dm and i could have been banned
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Yes but i was new when i made those rps to ;p i didnt know what an rpg server really was then. When i look back it was pure dm and i could have been banned
Ah, I thought you meant an existing player was doing it to you when you were new. Apologies.
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Most people don't even have a clear concept of roleplaying. I once got stopped by some guy named Paris who shot at my bike (I was an officer) and said "Stop, this is rp!!". In similar cases the administrators are so amused that they just let it go.
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Roleplaying cannot be refused, but can not be forced either.
oxymoron
well played gregersen, gg.
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oxymoron
well played gregersen, gg.
He's not being a smartass about it.
Please see this:
This topic may be of interest to you all:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900.0)
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There is a difference between Power-gaming and forcing Role play.
Just to add to the conversation, i consider this as forced RP: (https://www.florianvandillen.nl/images/GO7l9R.png)
This is power-gaming.
As you should know by now Argonath does not support OOC / IC, therefore forcing role play IC is called power-gaming, which then leads to it being misinterpreted as "forcing role play" when forcing role play has nothing to do with IC.
This is were the rule counteracts with another. But, if you do research on it within the community, you would clearly understand the difference.
Marcel, your example was a perfect example of power-gaming.. Forcing role play is more like "give money or die" or stuff along those lines. DEPENDING on the LEVEL of the role play, such as Marcel's example would be taken as power-gaming, since its at an adequate level of role play, where as "give money or die" is a stupid prime example of retarded role play, with someone who is here to give everyone a hard time, and surely I will punish for "give money or die" it is not role play at all. And same goes for "/me takes out knife and kills" or "/me takes out gun and shoots" - That is a kindergarten level of role play and should be considered 'inexperienced' in the role playing field.
If you disagree on what I said about Marcel's example, then re-read my whole message a few times till you understand what I meant.. It's hard to explain..
Anyways, if you want to role play by being lazy and using a lame "/me" line, then here's something for you,
Never Go Full Retard (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwJo3bA05Q#ws)
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Anyways, if you want to role play by being lazy and using a lame "/me" line, then here's something for you,
Never Go Full Retard (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwJo3bA05Q#ws)
Lame /me line? That's what Argo was founded on. Anyone who says /me is not the correct way of roleplaying has gained a major script dependency, and may need to rethink how they play...
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Roleplay is about two elements. One player's action will allow another to react. If it's just one players action then it's forced roleplay.
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Lame /me line?
Talking about;
"/me takes out knife and kills" or "/me takes out gun and shoots"
Roleplay is about two elements. One player's action will allow another to react. If it's just one players action then it's forced roleplay.
Which gets mixed up. IC / OOC is not supported here, same goes for Powergaming and Metagaming, which both are not supported here and both will not exist if there is no IC / OOC.
Which means, Marcel can counteract with the /me provided in the picture about a sentence later, stating that he has managed to get out of the actions that are being done to him. By not responding to the /me line, but by stating what he did to get out.
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<Insert quote here>
Talking about;
<Insert quote here>
/me jumps out of the way
or
/me dodges the bullet just in time
Argo doesn't recognize power-gaming or meta-gaming for this reason. Alternatively, you can also choose to play along without being forced. For example:
/me gets stabbed in the stomach and falls over bleeding
or
/me gets hit in the shoulder and starts to cry
The thing people need to realize is that sometimes they should actually play along with the scenario. As long as the other user doesn't have intentions of forcing you to follow through, users should be willing to take chances sometimes. Roleplaying purposely to protect yourself and gain an advantage in every scenario is only going to cause more problems with angry users forcing you to roleplay with them.
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/me grows tired and passes out due to alcohol dependency.
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/me jumps out of the way
or
/me dodges the bullet just in time
Argo doesn't recognize power-gaming or meta-gaming for this reason. Alternatively, you can also choose to play along without being forced. For example:
/me gets stabbed in the stomach and falls over bleeding
or
/me gets hit in the shoulder and starts to cry
The thing people need to realize is that sometimes they should actually play along with the scenario. As long as the other user doesn't have intentions of forcing you to follow through, users should be willing to take chances sometimes. Roleplaying purposely to protect yourself and gain an advantage in every scenario is only going to cause more problems with angry users forcing you to roleplay with them.
Uhm.. Exactly..? :neutral:
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/me grows tired and passes out due to alcohol dependency.
A very good example. You can have negative actions happen to you by choice through roleplay without it being forced, whether you initiate it, or someone else does. It's not necessary a bad thing as long as you agree to roleplay it out.
Uhm.. Exactly..? :neutral:
You said /me is lame in reference to your examples. I was stating that it's not. You can still choose to be hurt or not hurt by a scenario without being forced by /me. It's just a matter of being creative and willing to play along with others without seeking your own advantage.
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You said /me is lame in reference to your examples. I was stating that it's not. You can still choose to be hurt or not hurt by a scenario without being forced by /me. It's just a matter of being creative and willing to play along with others without seeking your own advantage.
So you agree that "/me takes out knife and kills" is a good example of role play?
You can still choose to be hurt or not hurt by a scenario without being forced by /me. It's just a matter of being creative and willing to play along with others without seeking your own advantage.
You are talking about a completely different scenario as what I am talking about.
Marcel can counteract with the /me provided in the picture about a sentence later, stating that he has managed to get out of the actions that are being done to him. By not responding to the /me line, but by stating what he did to get out.
I said he can, he does not have to try and get out of the role play, he can play along or do what ever, he's not forced to follow the way someone else wants to role play.
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Sugar, the examples that Duel showed you do not follow with giving you a chance to respond. They follow with the action being played out. And if you have an argument how that's acceptable, I'm all ears.
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Sugar, the examples that Duel showed you do not follow with giving you a chance to respond. They follow with the action being played out. And if you have an argument how that's acceptable, I'm all ears.
The second one is not necessarily forced. Someone can be stabbed and survive it.
Either way, the situation is only forced if the player does not agree to it. Not every action like that is meant to be forced roleplay. There are scenarios very similar to that where users will roleplay an action happening to another that couldn't be done any other way. For example, in a kidnapping, kidnappers often tie up the victims. They roleplay this out, stating their action as successful from the start. If the victim agrees to this, they are not being forced.
People need to realize that it's only forced if they don't agree to it. Yes, users shouldn't make attempts to purposely force it, but they should also not be making attempts to purposely avoid it just to gain an advantage in a scenario. That is why Gandalf also said you can't force people to not roleplay too. These situations should be taken on a case-by-case basis, as it takes both sides of the situation to evaluate the outcome.
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but they should also not be making attempts to purposely avoid it just to gain an advantage in a scenario.
What if you are RPing Chuck Norris..you must be successful at everything :lol:
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The second one is not necessarily forced. Someone can be stabbed and survive it.
Seriously...? Are you not reading my FULL posts..?
he does not have to try and get out of the role play, he can play along or do what ever, he's not forced to follow the way someone else wants to role play.
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Two friends punching each other for the hell of it is DM even if they don't mind being DMed by the other guy, and same goes (or should) for forced roleplay. If I come up to you while you're growing weed, and you do "/me takes out a combat shotgun and kills Pingster", immediately after blasting my guts all over the place, then there's no way that's acceptable roleplay. And same goes for taking out a knife and cutting my throat.
I don't mind being dragged to a car for a kidnap roleplay, as I can (and do) react to things, get out of their grasp and attempt to fight them, that's acceptable, however, it's not acceptable if you take me to your hideout and threaten to shoot me dead if I as much as move or say anything. Why do you need another player for such roleplay? You're not going to let the player interact with you anyway; the only purpose of the player is to have a real person to start a mass deathmatch with, once police breaches the building.
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Two friends punching each other for the hell of it is DM even if they don't mind being DMed by the other guy, and same goes (or should) for forced roleplay. If I come up to you while you're growing weed, and you do "/me takes out a combat shotgun and kills Pingster", immediately after blasting my guts all over the place, then there's no way that's acceptable roleplay. And same goes for taking out a knife and cutting my throat.
I don't mind being dragged to a car for a kidnap roleplay, as I can (and do) react to things, get out of their grasp and attempt to fight them, that's acceptable, however, it's not acceptable if you take me to your hideout and threaten to shoot me dead if I as much as move or say anything. Why do you need another player for such roleplay? You're not going to let the player interact with you anyway; the only purpose of the player is to have a real person to start a mass deathmatch with, once police breaches the building.
And that's how it should be explained.
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Seriously...? Are you not reading my FULL posts..?
I was only responding to your /me examples you gave in reply to me.
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I was only responding to your /me examples you gave in reply to me.
Read the other bits.. :neutral:
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The worst thing about my example was the fact that there was no "pay or die". It was merely powergaming with a pure intent to DM me.
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The worst thing about my example was the fact that there was no "pay or die". It was merely powergaming with a pure intent to DM me.
I was pointing out the difference between power-gaming and forcing role play.
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I was pointing out the difference between power-gaming and forcing role play.
I gotcha:)
EDIT: omgomgomgomg 555 posts omgomgomg
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Hi.
As we know there is a constant argument that Aegonath is not a RL RP served.
Playing on another server? :conf:
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The nice thing about people attempting to powergame against you, is that you can easily powergame back. Oh they tied your legs and shot your penis? Funny, I just found pants that burn rope and a healing potion +3.
... And even that is way more decent roleplay than people killing each other for 10 grams of weed.