Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Murt on May 07, 2013, 03:45:04 pm
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Hello SA:MP RPG Divison,
The latest days upon my return as a manager I've been quite shocked of how the regular players on SA:MP have acted. I've seen quite a lot of TDM events from regular players. It looks like the deathmatching rule needs a clarification for some of our oldest members to newest. Because the deathmatch ratio and non-role-play kills have been excessive and quite much.
What to do?
If you want too kill someone in-game you need to address your role-play reasons to kill them, else it'll be unclear for the victim why they die and of course unnecessary reports to admins. This contributes that staff members needs to investigate too many reports and some are left unanswered, moaning about deathmatching, flaming and more.
For example this new Mordor TDM event have been too much. I've been told by both parties during the Mordor "role-plays" that the military is protecting Mordor and the other party are attempting to break in. In this crossfire innocent players have been deathmatched by both parties. It clearly sounds as a big TDM. I'll actually tell you about two scenarios I've come across as an undercover admin and that I've had to sort out.
From military perspective: The military has guarded Mordor and killed any trespasser that have come their way. The problem here is that they role-play reasons of the kills haven't been addressed properly and as mentioned before there have been quite much reports regarding deathmatching. The victim has been unaware why he/she has died. The party that have committed the killings have told me they were protecting the area and they killed every trespasser. They thought it would be enough to say "Stop" then they could shoot. As you see a problem occurs here, the reason to kill isn't addressed properly. From the other perspective it is the same only that they are the "attackers".
Deathmatching is strictly prohibited and we'll enforce this rule as any other rule we enforce here on Argonath. But I'll clearly inform admins about this new "Mordor event" that is clearly out of hand now. This topic is not only regarding this, I've made the topic to clarify for everyone. If you wish to deathmatch, visit a deathmatch server, SA:MP RPG is not the right place.
I'll advice both parties that takes apart of this new "event" to play within the rules, else there will be consequences.
Regards,
Murt
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I just want to add because I've seen it way too much :
- Someone rammed you? It doesn't give you the right to kill him
- Someone ignores you? It doesn't give you the right to kill him
- You are robbing someone and he doesn't want to give you anything or only a little amount of money is not a valid reason to kill him
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Content removed
-Murt
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Content removed
-Murt
I spectate who I want. If you have problem with administration and conspiracy about witch hunting, feel free to write a mail to [email protected].
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I'm not surprised it came to this. After all, the person who spearheaded the event was not even trustworthy himself.
Seems a lot of players need re-education on the difference between TDM and combat in roleplay.
As for those players with questionable punishment records, events like these are no reason for you to witch-hunt the admins. If you do not trust our helpers, leave this community.
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Don't derail this topic in to something it is not. For Aca, if you wish to accuse someone, come with something that can strengthen your argument, but I guess you cannot. Else a report to [email protected] is enough.
If you wish to personally attack Cyril more, be sure I'll be there.
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If you wish to personally attack Cyril more, be sure I'll be there.
No. I won't attack him more, I was just sayin'.
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Wow, can't believe some people still have that type of attitude even when viewing this topic..
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It's not my problem if some players are dumb and they don't understand or pretend that they don't understand ( in most cases ) why they were killed. To find out why they were killed you could simply ask the guy who killed them. Then decide whether the reason is valid or just DM.
You can't expect me to go like '' Hey, I'm killing you because bla bla bla.''
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To all:
Instead of bringing out worthless arguments here, acknowledge the reminder and bring up some constructive criticism which is appropriate.
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It's not my problem if some players are dumb and they don't understand or pretend that they don't understand ( in most cases ) why they were killed. To find out why they were killed you could simply ask the guy who killed them. Then decide whether the reason is valid or just DM.
You can't expect me to go like '' Hey, I'm killing you because bla bla bla.''
Not my problem if you don't understand why I banned you. See the point?
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Just stay on topic and discuss the matter.
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Just stay on topic and discuss the matter.
Give us an example of how to inform the players we decided to kill. Thanks in advance.
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Its a fact that many wars between Families have lead into a constant TDM between them . I do not know anything about the Mordor TDM thing but what I surely know is that a new rule in the wars between the families(/gangs/group/mafias/or how you wanna call it) must be made . I my self have been a long time a member of a criminal group and a lot of time a member of the ARPD and SAPD . The situation is not under control at all . Lastly I think the right given to policemen to pop out Compats and such from the air is also very big , and the fact that many ARPD officers just kill anything yellow they see is also bad . I am talking about many TDM both between families and between cops and robbers . New rules must come and really fast
Post Merge: May 07, 2013, 04:13:11 pm
Give us an example of how to inform the players we decided to kill. Thanks in advance.
You dont have to inform them . Simply make it clear before killing them . As I remember in Argonath RP cant be forced [and thats the most abused rule I actually know] so either ask them if they wish to continoue the RP or simply dont end up with a death . Just give them a few punches , beat them up , but dont kill them
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Force roleplay.
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Force roleplay.
You obviously don't understand the meaning of force roleplay.
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You dont have to inform them . Simply make it clear before killing them .
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ymNre4gQbT4/ULvjgL4AfOI/AAAAAAAADKo/9GJeCViq5Ww/s1600/Facepalm_9a08b9_59080.jpg)
@Santino
Try using /sms or /phone before killing him. Sending the victim an SMS is clearly a sign of roleplay and you won't be punished if you kill him afterwards.
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Killing must be used as a last resort anyway. Which is the total opposite from what is happening on the server. You are all killing each other for little things.
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You obviously don't understand the meaning of force roleplay.
Since you do simply define it with your words
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Killing must be used as a last resort anyway. Which is the total opposite from what is happening on the server. You are all killing each other for little things.
Then ban people who use lack of roleplay when it comes to killing. Make argo stricter.
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Just stay on topic and discuss the matter.
Well what is there to discuss.. the people who want to DM will DM untill they get punished for it, I have met regulars who just shot me because of random stuff like ramming upon reporting them the admin PMs me that the guy had a valid RP reason, or the admin just ignores it, for example, a group of 4 players that were suspected killed me while I RPed with another man yesterday, and they all stated that it's a vaild RP reason to kill an officer if the are being threatnet by them, I literally did nothing, another example, I mistakingly crash into a suspect and I stop to say sorry, he kills me, there are some good people like Mario_Soprano, I told him I did not want to engage in a fight with him and he stoped shooting and apologised and drove off, its what perspective people have , if they think they are badass because they are in a mafia, they will randomly kill people, if people will think that they are nothing special and have to follow orders and be like everyone else DM won't happen. I'm not here to bash on anyone, I have been here from January, I have been DMed a handful of times and mostly it was because people felt threatned by me or people around me that they shot, for example when suspects see a cop their instinct is A) run away, but they know that won't help because cops will magicaly pull out an M4 and shoot their tires so they B) shoot them before they can "return fire". By doing that the officer mentality just goes "shoot them before they shoot you", it hasn't started right now I'm sure of it, it's a long process to put something like this to someone's head, that is why still after 4 months I don't care if you are a suspect or if I am or if you ram me or shoot me, I won't really mind it, I won't chase you if you don't chase me.. or maybe I'm just lazy.. yeah I'm probably lazy.
So on how to stop this.. uhh as a community I'm sure we can but.. DM will never stop, I'm sure the "veterans" will say okay, but tens of people join this comunity every day, there is a few ways to get the message to them, after they shoot, or DM someone you don't warn/kick them, how about a 30 sec jail time where it displays all the rules on your screen to read and then you are released, but I don't mind this kind of DM because I'm not that much threatned by it.
How about in big RP's like bank robberies, they always end up in a shootout, and I'm always pro-cops but now I'm going the different way, if the suspects have a hostage you shouldn't screw with them, because they will kill the hostage, which they usually don't because that's a douche thing to do but then cops come in and.. kill everyone, that isn't RP, you should let the suspects leave and then .. try to jail people not insta rush in a building and kill everyone, I don't know why but that doesn't seem RP to me. now it's storming outside so I will stop writing.. but yes it is an issue but can it be resolved?
oh and make argo stricter.. sadly that's the only way to fix it,
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Then ban people who use lack of roleplay when it comes to killing. Make argo stricter.
True but I am sure that Gandalf is against that .
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True but I am sure that Gandalf is against that .
I bet he is, but it would do some good.
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I bet he is, but it would do some good.
as I stated in my comment, you are correct, making argo strict would fix it , but that would mean half the people would leave so.. it's hard to balance things out..
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Try using /sms or /phone before killing him. Sending the victim an SMS is clearly a sign of roleplay and you won't be punished if you kill him afterwards.
Are you actually serious? There are consequences to our actions. It's your problem if you can't understand it.
Killing someone is not that easy especially if you are in a RP group. If you RP informing the victim that you're going to kill him, you will most likely fail. This is just ridiculous and and I don't even understand why do we have to discuss it. If you inform the victim over private messages or public chat, he'll most likely use this advantage to prevent you from killing him or even quit the game.
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You guys seems to have misinterpreted my words. By addressing the role-play reasons to kill someone doesn't mean you've to inform them over the /phone or /pm. By simply addressing it you can easily say "Get of my property, you're trespassing on private property, leave or die!".
Look at the drug places for example, most common line between lazy players are "Leave or die!!!!!". Then they say "3, 2, 1, go! BANG BANG!". I mean, does this looks like much effort was put in this role-play scenario? No... I mean there is not even a reason stated why they should leave, it may be obvious during the role-play scenario since you're at a drug spot, but still...
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You guys baffle me when it comes to playing, so many of you want to eat the whole cake and not share.
The cake is there for the entire community, not for a single group or person to eat until they almost burst from taking it all.
Believe it or not, this cake is enough for everyone to get a bite out from and enjoy. So there's no reason to be greedy about it
But what you need, is to learn to trust each other a bit more. Tone down on the rambo and roleplay the encounters you have in the server a bit more.
You know instead of shoot first, roleplay later, do the opposite. Roleplay first, and then if the situation calls for it, could bullets be shot for the right reasons. Not everything has to end with bullets raining.
This is one community after all. And this is one of many things, that you have to learn if you want to improve your own roleplay.
Words don't do much. Action does, so start taking action. If I can RP a drunk jamaican dude, hit the police officers several times, get beaten to a bloody pulp. Vomit in the car and sing songs of the love for weed. And not get killed, then surely this community should be able to stop that trigger finger for 30 seconds to RP the situation a bit before you smash the finger on M1 and try to blow brains out. Right?
Or is that to much to demand? Perhaps you like the community as it is now. Shooting guns in a blaze of self-glorified glory while you laugh with your friends over chat over how many guys you could kill, stabbing each other in the back for preciiiiious money and generally be a selfish little prick.
Come on guys, I know this community can do better than trying to blow brains all day long.
You just have to want to RP. If no one wants to RP the situations then what is the point of playing here?
Those who see me driving around like a maniac trying to stunt all day long might assume that's the only thing I do. But sometimes on my travels I get slapped with Roleplay in my face, and when I do find myself in these situations, I try to roleplay it. Not run away, get in my car, ram the person or shoot his head off.
Some of them was less than desirable, perhaps outright impossible demands (Give me 5000$ or I blow your brains out. Anyone?), some of them was genuinely funny. And I commend and salute the people who do take their time with the good roleplay. The one where you both have fun.
The word "Fun" is the driving force, it's one of the main goals with this community in the first place. If you think that only you yourself and your friends only are entitled to it (Shoot as many cops as you can, go visit rival mafia and start deathmatching like mad and so on), then you are sorely mistaken. You are playing with other human beings, not Bots. The Fun is entitled to EVERYONE on Argonath RPG, across all it's divisions and servers.
So better stop trying to eat the cake yourself, share the cake with people. And most of all, become a better person.
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Cake pls? :(
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Make argo stricter.
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You guys seems to have misinterpreted my words. By addressing the role-play reasons to kill someone doesn't mean you've to inform them over the /phone or /pm. By simply addressing it you can easily say "Get of my property, you're trespassing on private property, leave or die!".
Look at the drug places for example, most common line between lazy players are "Leave or die!!!!!". Then they say "3, 2, 1, go! BANG BANG!". I mean, does this looks like much effort was put in this role-play scenario? No... I mean there is not even a reason stated why they should leave, it may be obvious during the role-play scenario since you're at a drug spot, but still...
This pretty much sums it up.
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Read me please (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=38482.0) :) Thanks ;).
As the matter we are on, My personal view is that it all counts on Respect. If you have respect for your self, you always have for the people around you. So, be positive, kind and never do something that you wouldn't like other people do to you also. ;)
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Read me please (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=38482.0) :) Thanks ;).
No.
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Killing must be used as a last resort anyway. Which is the total opposite from what is happening on the server. You are all killing each other for little things.
It's not such a concrete left or right kind of thing.
You can't expect all players to have the same views on life and death, everyone has their own approach to certain roleplay scenarios. Especially younger children might be more easy-going about killing. Luckily stuff doesn't have to be as realistic as some would like it to be in Argonath. As long as there's roleplay, of 'high quality' or not, it must be accepted that murder and death will also be largely involved. GTA is a game based on killing, and even although Argonath isn't the same, its players got here through GTA.
People that get really annoyed by death and murder ingame shouldn't have gotten GTA in the first place. I understand that most people in this topic don't complain about killing in general, but rather the ratio between roleplaying and killing. That itself is something I would disrecommend, because just like driving a vehicle, killing should be viewed as a part of the SA:MP roleplay experience. It's always been like this, so I don't see what the big deal is. The definition of deathmatching is very clear: ''Attacking others without a proper role-play reason''.
A roleplay reason is a roleplay reason, whether you find the reason inappropriate is irrelevant to an extent; there will be players interested in roleplaying some psychomaniacs too. ;) It's also good to keep in mind that poor roleplay is still roleplay. New players won't be great at it when they first start playing. Give them a chance like you were given a chance, back when you were new to the server. Help them, but don't get too involved. Seeing players develop their own style of roleplaying is always nice to see.
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as I stated in my comment, you are correct, making argo strict would fix it , but that would mean half the people would leave so.. it's hard to balance things out..
The server only needs those who wish to stay and obey the rules, not only those who wish to stay, quality over quantity applies on the server aswell, not just groups.
I see many players that can't even speak english, how can you RP on this server without knowing how to communicate, It's harsh yes, but most of those people break rules not because they're straight up "idiots" but because they don't understand the rules, I've been trying to announce this request for quite a while, and I'll do it now then:
Post the server rules in more languages than just English, so at LEAST the new players not so skilled in the English language can follow the rules posted by Gandalf himself while they work on their communication skills, instead of learning the rules from people with *cough* funny punishment histories.
You guys baffle me when it comes to playing, so many of you want to eat the whole cake and not share.
The cake is there for the entire community, not for a single group or person to eat until they almost burst from taking it all.
Believe it or not, this cake is enough for everyone to get a bite out from and enjoy. So there's no reason to be greedy about it
But what you need, is to learn to trust each other a bit more. Tone down on the rambo and roleplay the encounters you have in the server a bit more.
You know instead of shoot first, roleplay later, do the opposite. Roleplay first, and then if the situation calls for it, could bullets be shot for the right reasons. Not everything has to end with bullets raining.
This is one community after all. And this is one of many things, that you have to learn if you want to improve your own roleplay.
Words don't do much. Action does, so start taking action. If I can RP a drunk jamaican dude, hit the police officers several times, get beaten to a bloody pulp. Vomit in the car and sing songs of the love for weed. And not get killed, then surely this community should be able to stop that trigger finger for 30 seconds to RP the situation a bit before you smash the finger on M1 and try to blow brains out. Right?
Or is that to much to demand? Perhaps you like the community as it is now. Shooting guns in a blaze of self-glorified glory while you laugh with your friends over chat over how many guys you could kill, stabbing each other in the back for preciiiiious money and generally be a selfish little prick.
Come on guys, I know this community can do better than trying to blow brains all day long.
You just have to want to RP. If no one wants to RP the situations then what is the point of playing here?
Those who see me driving around like a maniac trying to stunt all day long might assume that's the only thing I do. But sometimes on my travels I get slapped with Roleplay in my face, and when I do find myself in these situations, I try to roleplay it. Not run away, get in my car, ram the person or shoot his head off.
Some of them was less than desirable, perhaps outright impossible demands (Give me 5000$ or I blow your brains out. Anyone?), some of them was genuinely funny. And I commend and salute the people who do take their time with the good roleplay. The one where you both have fun.
The word "Fun" is the driving force, it's one of the main goals with this community in the first place. If you think that only you yourself and your friends only are entitled to it (Shoot as many cops as you can, go visit rival mafia and start deathmatching like mad and so on), then you are sorely mistaken. You are playing with other human beings, not Bots. The Fun is entitled to EVERYONE on Argonath RPG, across all it's divisions and servers.
So better stop trying to eat the cake yourself, share the cake with people. And most of all, become a better person.
Give me back my words :lol:
Reason why the RP is somewhat poor in some people:
They mix RL with RP, they take what happens in RP as a personal offense, for example:
They get threatened at gun point, what would you do in a real situation? You'd be scared, but in Argonath 99.99% of the players are fearless rambos, and why are they rambos? Because they think that just because their character got scared in that situation, that the player is a "pussy" IRL.
That's just ONE example of hundreds, people want to "die with a fight" because they believe they will be considered wussies if they just give their money, or drugs, or succumb to verbal aggression. So, what is the solution in their minds? *PEW PEW BRATATATATATA*, and that's why RP is as it is.
Me and AlSforza were RPing that we were Jeovah witnesses around a month ago, we'd walk up to people and ask them if they had time to hear about our Lord Jesus, obviously, people would say "NO!", so we pulled out weapons and aimed at their heads shouting "LISTEN TO US, LOVE JESUS, EMBRACE HIS WORD OF FAITH AND SALVATION!", "SING WITH US, THE LORD IS MY SHEPPERD, AND I AM THY FLOCK!", guess how many people RPed along, singing and accepting the Lord, ONE person :rofl: the rest proceeded to Rambo their way even though they were alone with two crazy Jeovah witnesses with weapons aimed at their heads.
Back on MTA VC we had this rule, here's a little blast from the past:
"As civilians of Argonath, you are entitled to carry weapons, although if you are in trouble let the police deal with it and run away as you would in a real situation"
Now that's just beautifully gorgeous, an amazing sentence that if followed can lead the good RP, instead of the every day combat out of the ass and "FOR NARNIA!" shooting.
For the criminal groups:
Killing isn't the only way to "AVENGE MAH HONAH"... check some Mafia movies, real usefull, RP that you sent a picture of the enemies wife and kids dead to them, or the "head of the horse" situation like in "The Godfather", or that you blew up one of the rival families "rackets", stuff like that, be creative, of course you're mafia people and killing is part of the job, but damnit, EVERY TIME ending up with death gets pretty old and only shows the lack of creativity of one's group...
^If you find this boring and believe that shooting is where the action is at, then here's a newsflash, RP is not the thing for you, Team DM servers are the thing you're looking for, many many many players in this server don't know the difference, now, I know It's up to us Veterans to teach them, but you can't teach a blind man to see and you can't teach people who don't want to learn, people who aren't humble enough to learn from those who were here from way longer than them. So next time instead of blaming "Veterans for not teaching new players" we should think "Wait a minute, maybe the players don't want to be taught" <- This happens a lot, trust me.
Be more strict
Main thought of many rule breakers:
"Oh I'll get banned, apologize and I'll get unbanned 2 weeks later or something, it's not PERMANENT"
We do need to be a little bit more strict, I know many people that got banned over 5 times and are still around :conf:
And to finish off, MTA VC had more RP, partially because the only scripted way to get money was through cop duty or fishing contests (Events aswell of course).
The rest, was up to you to RP your money earning, MTA VC could only fit 24 players, and it had more businesses open than SAMP has with over 100 players on.
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Topic read and acknowledged.
I would confirm what stated by Murt.
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Well, obiviously any mad player here on argonath report when they get killed, because they simply can't take the fact either that they got owned, or they lost weapons, or money in some way. However, when I were not banned I noticed how you admins take action against something with no proof or however, just because it's your "Friend" or a more "respectable" person of the community. Just listening to those WORDS from the victim, completley ignoring the other player's words. So sometimes it doesn't even matter how many minutes or hours you put into the rp, still you get punished when finishing the act.
Go spread false information elsewhere.
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Well, obiviously any mad player here on argonath report when they get killed, because they simply can't take the fact either that they got owned, or they lost weapons, or money in some way. However, when I were not banned I noticed how you admins take action against something with no proof or however, just because it's your "Friend" or a more "respectable" person of the community. Just listening to those WORDS from the victim, completley ignoring the other player's words. So sometimes it doesn't even matter how many minutes or hours you put into the rp, still you get punished when finishing the act.
+1
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Don't derail the topic, Didde.
Send your complaints to the complaint-mail.
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Don't derail the topic, Didde.
Send your complaints to the complaint-mail.
This is not a complaint, I'ts my opinion, and just the other story around, not admins bragging about what we players do, just a player bragging about stuff admins do. So it should be all fair, yeah?
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Well, obiviously any mad player here on argonath report when they get killed, because they simply can't take the fact either that they got owned, or they lost weapons, or money in some way. However, when I were not banned I noticed how you admins take action against something with no proof or however, just because it's your "Friend" or a more "respectable" person of the community. Just listening to those WORDS from the victim, completley ignoring the other player's words. So sometimes it doesn't even matter how many minutes or hours you put into the rp, still you get punished when finishing the act.
That does not actually take place, and if you notice anything like this, don't hesitate to report the admin for favorism on players. Our guidelines state that every player is equal to our eyes, no matter any friendship between the Admin or the player. (I proved this already in past by punishing several clan-mates, close friends whenever they broke the rules.. I wouldn't except them because they were my friends, they broke the rules? They received their punishment just like anybody else.)
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Remove guns, easiest solution.
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That does not actually take place, and if you notice anything like this, don't hesitate to report the admin for favorism on players. Our guidelines state that every player is equal to our eyes, no matter any friendship between the Admin or the player. (I proved this already in past by punishing several clan-mates, close friends whenever they broke the rules.. I wouldn't except them because they were my friends, they broke the rules? They received their punishment just like anybody else.)
I noticed it way to many times to believe your message, sorry mate. And if I now would see this happening, it's not like I'm gonna have any proof, since I'm most likely not prepared for that favourism of another player to happen, and secondly, if I would post without proof, obiviously it would most likely be ignored, or talked to with a simple " Don't do it" I guess.
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This is not a complaint, I'ts my opinion, and just the other story around, not admins bragging about what we players do, just a player bragging about stuff admins do. So it should be all fair, yeah?
This is not what the topic is about. Create your own topic with this subject if you want to talk about this.
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Force roleplay.
It's impossible.
Tried to force RP several times (not in the real meaning of forcing, I was actually begging them to RP), but they USUALLY open fire on me since they KNOW why I came to RP with them. They see the 'Luciano' tag above my head and they automatically remember that they have killed a member of the same family I'm in. Then, they decide to pull out their shotgun from the ass, open fire on me while I'm typing and attempting to introduce myself as a postman, not a mobster, but you know.. It's too late.
Then, I use the /report command as usual, and I cannot say that nothing happens, admins take action and to their best to find some evidence, but it's almost impossible. An admin cannot see what happened and I understand that, but they should also understand us how do we feel when we get DMed in the middle of the RolePlay attempt.
-Lincoln Luciano.
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You should also understand that it is impossible for us to act without evidence, because that would be unfair too, am I wrong?
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This is not what the topic is about. Create your own topic with this subject if you want to talk about this.
The topic is mainly focusing the dm'ing rule as I can see, and that is what my post was about.
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You should also understand that it is impossible for us to act without evidence, because that would be unfair too, am I wrong?
You should have understood from the text that I DO understand that you CAN NOT act without evidence.
I never said anything regarding that, but you obviously like to twist my words, because that's what admins sometimes do.
It's impossible.
Then, I use the /report command as usual, and I cannot say that nothing happens, admins take action and to their best to find some evidence, but it's almost impossible.
-Lincoln Luciano.
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For one day make it so when you die you lose everything you own and have to start again, then I'm sure people will think twice before deathmatching.
:ps: - I'm joking of course :lol:.
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They get threatened at gun point, what would you do in a real situation? You'd be scared, but in Argonath 99.99% of the players are fearless rambos, and why are they rambos? Because they think that just because their character got scared in that situation, that the player is a "pussy" IRL.
You have just earned maximum respect.
I'm disgusted that this message has to be posted. Seriously if you want to DM which trust me yeah its fun to randomly blow someones brains out in a game... great.... Paruni. If you come to Argonath, you should roleplay at any given chance. EVERY opportunity as its the collective gathering of players that create RP not the owners, not the scripters or the scripts... the players (which includes us admins).
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Remove freaking guns like in North America.
But wait... if we remove guns, we'll loose shitloads of players... okay.
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Remove freaking guns like in North America.
But wait... if we remove guns, we'll loose shitloads of players... okay.
How many times must I say , its quality over quantity , if you come to a RPG server to shoot someone, don't .. just.. don't.. go to a DM server to shoot, that is why we have Paruni, stay on this server to RP, like stated before using a weapon should be the last thing to do, not like now when everyone goes rambo.. do we need guns to roleplay? yes Do we really? no.
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You have just earned maximum respect.
He has earned it long time ago.
In a RP robbery, a cop calls C30 while having a gun pointed at his head. In less than 2mins, SAPD rushes to you, hosting a DM fest.
That's also one of the situations, besides the situation Tony mentioned. Cops also like to hit the gas while they're being RPly pulled out of a car, with several guns pointed at their head.
That IS the main problem of the DM fests, we always AVOID to kill the target we have set for a robbery, but unfortunately, they fail to act like every single normal person would do, and they have to die.
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but they USUALLY open fire on me
This is what I meant. Simply punish player like that harder. Make it stricter.
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Remove guns, easiest solution.
The simplest solution isn't always the best one. The problem is within the people: cops and criminals; and by some of each kind the whole group gets labeled as: NON rp, DMers, etc.
If people don't want to roleplay PROPERLY they shouldn't come to this server, that's what people should learn.
People should also learn that their way of role play may not match the other player's way or vision that pushes this discussion back to the Forcing RP tread.
I just hope everyone can find a happy place where they can all cohabit be friends and role play together, instead of mixing someone's mother's job with some bad outcome out of a roleplay :weed:
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Hmm.
The people today seems to roleplay like 5 minutes then having a big DM fest. This needs to have a change, people seems like not be able to understand that a roleplay doesn't need to end with shootout. Even between mafias that are enemies or familiar!
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How many times must I say , its quality over quantity , if you come to a RPG server to shoot someone, don't .. just.. don't.. go to a DM server to shoot, that is why we have Paruni, stay on this server to RP, like stated before using a weapon should be the last thing to do, not like now when everyone goes rambo.. do we need guns to roleplay? yes Do we really? no.
Good argument.
Sadly, in your signature you see a police officer. I assume you are an officer. Just a small situation, you see a suspect running away. You do not have guns because they have been disabled. So you run with your pepperspray till you die of boringness.
Guns are guns, they are needed in EVERY roleplay server. If you don't want guns, go drift with an elegy. Everybody goes rambo because they don't want to lose. You can get great roleplay with guns and without. Everybody want to roleplay with guns. Except you.
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In the midst of all this TDM talk, we should remember the following person, notoriously known as Argonath's worst DMer and surprisingly Argonath's most creative also:
GTA SA - Pedestrian - British Actor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8wisg8229U#)
Though the above person looks harmless, he is known to have:
- Driven burning cars into a group of people without warning
- Stopped the car randomly, only to carjack another car and continue along his way
- Fly a plane into a group of people
- Stand in front of you for 3 seconds and attack without warning until you are dead
- Scream on /p often in foul language and caps
- To have no respect for ballas or the police
- The most inquisitive mind in Argonath
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Well...today i got treated bad at mordor, i got desynced and logged in and i see i am in mordor. Because i just logged in there from pervious mordor RP. Then i got treated bad by the militray also they forced the RP and they carjacked me many times. I contact the event leader the only thing he said was ''I going talk with him'''' in my ass. This was second time and that is it. I also contact Trane and he said ''he dragged you out'' Like what do you mean with ''dragging you out'' He carjacked me 2-4 times without someone doing something. Well...Trane just igonre it and that was total respectless from him and bad. Also Ramo as hoster he should handle this problem and solve it. He must act better as team leader.
My suggestion: Just cancell this event due many people cant behave. This event is just a big mistake without controll and no staff got time for keep an eye on it.
Dont take my post bad, but this is the truth. :/ Very sad to be treated like this
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I agree totally with Hevar, guards kept trolling me and forcing RP just to go in and get my car. And DM followed, ofc.
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You should have understood from the text that I DO understand that you CAN NOT act without evidence.
I never said anything regarding that, but you obviously like to twist my words, because that's what admins sometimes do.
What was meant is, if you want justice, bring us proof & evidence. And no I do not twist your 'words'.
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And DM followed, ofc.
Guns were banned, so this shouldn't of happened.
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Good argument.
Sadly, in your signature you see a police officer. I assume you are an officer. Just a small situation, you see a suspect running away. You do not have guns because they have been disabled. So you run with your pepperspray till you die of boringness.
Guns are guns, they are needed in EVERY roleplay server. If you don't want guns, go drift with an elegy. Everybody goes rambo because they don't want to lose. You can get great roleplay with guns and without. Everybody want to roleplay with guns. Except you.
not really, I mean if not for guns what would I suspect him for? oh and I'm not a cop, I'm a YOLO.
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If you guys will continue to derail this topic I will soon eventually have to lock it. I'm actually disappointed that never ever can people stay on the topic. Always have to go off-topic and discuss irrelevant things.
Locking the topic is easier than cleaning the topic constantly because some doesn't know how to discuss things properly.
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@Rock - you, and almost every admin say, bring/show us evidence so actually what I need to do is to turn on fraps and record everything while I play? Probably no.
To the topic now
As the title say Argonath isn't TDM server, it actually is, just that nobody wants do admit it. I've been doing role as cops for so much days, months, and nothing changed, if you pullover player, want to ticket him for $20 he will accept it and go away, but if you ticket him for $250, he will start flaming then evade. Also there were so many situations where there was so called 'dm fest' and there is like one guy from mafia suspected in his HQ while 20 other mafia guys are 'chilling' next to him. Here is where DM and rulebreaking starts, one freecop gets shot by suspect when he manages to harm suspect and almost kill him then his team mates take out combat shotguns from pants and kill cop. Then more cops come and it continues. Even cops should care about EVERYBODIES health, no matter is it suspect or civilian its somebodies life, I just ask myself do you guys ever watch movies? Also big problem is that people are revengekilling so much. Here's an example, so I was LEO and I went to Mordor to inspect situation, as always there was dozens of cars blocking road so I started to flush them into sea so they respawn, and just after I respawned one car, one officer said me 'YOU MOTHERF***ER THAT WAS MY CAR, I WILL KILL YOU AFTER THIS NOOB' in PM and I just walked away, some time after that I drove to ammunation and bought weapons for duty, same guy came to me said 'STOP!!!1' and after I ignored him he took shotgun and shot my car several times.
Also I'm suggesting to limit weapons, also remove combat shotgun since its way too much OP, and just make prices of weapons way higher so people only use 9mm gun.
Indeed certain rules have lead to this, and also denied ideas which should be implented.
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I actually don't see why this idea about gun licences was denied, you would need to make application on ARPD forum and also pay some money to get it. Abuse it? SAPD comes and revokes it, simple.
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Abuse it? SAPD comes and revokes it, simple.
Guns are almost exclusively used for crime in Argonath. How would you imagine this 'simple' idea in reality? Get a gun license after having never committed a crime, killing someone, going to jail/dying, and eventually end up NEVER getting a license again under that identity.
This is one of these things that would only work if death ingame would also mean that your character dies. :lol:
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I can sell my guns to someone illegally. Then no "character death" is needed. And let's say this, if you get caught with murders etc and you get your license revoked, blame yourself.
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This is not an "idea" topic. If the only way for people to stop DMing is implementing tons of restricting scripts, then we have a problem.
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I can sell my guns to someone illegally. Then no "character death" is needed. And let's say this, if you get caught with murders etc and you get your license revoked, blame yourself.
no man it's just not practical
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This is not an "idea" topic. If the only way for people to stop DMing is implementing tons of restricting scripts, then we have a problem.
As you can se a few members acknowlage this problem and want to fix it, but the problem is with theones who don't care, we don't need scripts, we need more people to tell this to others, this is a gigantic comunity 30 people can't change it, it might of went otu of hand but there is no backtracking now, we don't need scripts but we need stricter rules, my suggestion is to unish nonrpers and dmers harder, that or link everyone to read this topic, it's hard to get this message to every member of this comunoty, it would be a lenghty process but it is doable.
I'm writing on my phone, soz for bad.. writing..
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Guns is not the problems, it's the players. If they continue to undermine and bend rules to their will, they need to be sorted out.
I'm actually quite disappointed in what happened with Mordor RP now. It had potential and I was there the first day, and now this?
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I agree that some kind of gun license for trusted people would eliminate a lot of problem. Due that permission only giving to people who eventually can handle it. If someone abuses the guns in a so called DM scenario, it could be removed from the person.
But of course, who am I to decide..
Afterall, I think we all have to carry on, try not to be in situations that can become to be DM fest! We have to work to get this place running again!
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Now that's just beautifully gorgeous, an amazing sentence that if followed can lead the good RP, instead of the every day combat out of the ass and "FOR NARNIA!" shooting.
I fucking love this guy.
More on the topic, changing the mindset of players is a solution as well. But why is it we cannot seem to achieve that?
Because of numerous regular and "veteran" players who think themselves "too cool" to abide by rules altogether and learn to compromise their own perception of combat roleplay in favor of one that would be more productive and less conflict-inducing in terms of roleplay.
And lastly, common sense has become rarer and rarer on Argonath as well, just as it has in the real world. If people would only think with common sense, we'd save ourselves a lot of problems.
Scripts and guns would always produce bad results if you give them to people who use them badly. The solution is to take the initiative and teach others around you who do not know better, rather than cry like a bitch whenever you get killed. Sadly, not many players choose to be aware of this anymore.
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Gunlicense. I'm 100% serious on this.
I actually don't see why this idea about gun licences was denied, you would need to make application on ARPD forum and also pay some money to get it. Abuse it? SAPD comes and revokes it, simple.
>buys and posesses gun illegaly
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Players resort to shooting because they can't comprehend how to respond to roleplay situations and shooting seems to be their chosen medium of response to what they lable as a bad roleplayer since they don't understand how to react.
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Argo doesn't recognize powergaming and metagaming, so using the "success/fail" thing isn't a good example here. This is not a strict RP community. No one is forced to roleplay, nor are they forced not to. Players can make a choice in their own reactions as to whether or not they play along, but asking them if it was successful or failed is not helping that progress at all. That limits users, and still forces roleplay to some degree, which Argo doesn't allow.
To those saying Argo needs to enforce strict roleplay, it's not going to happen. If you want that, you are in the wrong community and should leave now. Argonath's Vision was specifically set up in a way which prevented this community from being like all the others that copied it, and from the one it was created from. We have survived and thrived for almost 7 years that way now, and it's not going to change for those who want it to be like it's competitors.
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No one is forced to roleplay, nor are they forced not to.
I'm going to have to stop you right there, I was told multiple times that if "a player logs in, he better be ready to RP, as entering the server is pretty much saying he wants to RP, as it is a RP server".
And let's face it, most people only "RP" when they feel like they will "win" the scenario, if they find themselves in a scenario where they might lose they either:
A) Ignore the players trying to interact.
B) Act as if they are afk
C) Start moaning saying that they don't "feel" like RPing at that moment.
D) Plain and simply do not talk, do not interact, just run away.
Regarding the C) option, if one doesn't feel like RPing, then why be ingame anyway?
Regarding this "And let's face it, most people only "RP" when they feel like they will "win" the scenario", this is another reason why people TDM, they only RP with their "yo yo homiezzz" backing them up, because people feel that killing their rival family members is the only (because nobody wants to "lose" the RP) and excelent epic and worth repeating *cough* "RP".
Now tell me, if the players don't intent on killing 8712636513 people after a RP, why is it that whenever someone gets robbed, for example, all of a sudden there's 30 of his "homiezzzzzzz" heading his way to "halp eem"?
Unfortunantely most players think like this:
"The RP is only over, when the "enemeehjz dai"
What I find even more hilarious is that Criminal groups are considered good or bad, based on how many people they kill (LOOL), instead of how creative their RP's are.
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It's defined here:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900)
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It's defined here:
http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=88900)
You failed to understand what is written there, forcing someone to follow a guideline to the RP, limiting his options is not allowed.
Beginning a RP with same person giving him chances to actually expand his own possiblities yet he doesn't "feel like RPing" is another different thing.
2. When you can not force NOT to roleplay?
- You are getting robbed. Often people try to get out of a robbery by telling they do to want to roleplay. Well here is the news: If you do not want to roleplay, log off.
When you enter the server, you are there to roleplay, and that means with everyone you encounter.(...) But you can never refuse to interact with others in a respectful way.
If it was as if you say, then this server's name would be "ArgonathKindaRPG"
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Then the problem is pretty clear here. You'll never get the players to change.
Then they can leave if they can't follow the rules. Else, we'll force those who don't to learn to follow them:
If your parents do not teach you to behave, we will. Remember, Argonath is a place to meet new people from all over the world, connect with them, and find friends.
It is not a place to flame, disrespect, and close out new people. We may have allowed too much in the past, so be aware that you may be punished for things you believe were normal.
;)
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Been doing it since 2006, and we haven't come and go as others have.
But you didn't join Argonath until 2008... :trust:
Please don't turn this into one of those 'rulebreakers will learn, we will win!' topics. There's no war and there's not a united group of people called 'the rulebreakers'. The topic's about deathmatching, not Argonath in general.
It'd be interesting to get some more opinions on the topic subject, instead of seeing people just quote Gandalf.
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if yall still having this problem shiet.
if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck; it's probably a duck
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if yall still having this problem shiet.
if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck; it's probably a duck
I was about to insult a gang but I rather bit my tongue , but if it is a DMer you still have to RP with him if he interacts with you, even tho it usually turns into a DM, you still need to talk to him knowing he will DM because the rules state you need to RP with everyone..
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But you didn't join Argonath until 2008... :trust:
I joined in early-to-mid 2007. I just didn't join the forum until some time later. When I said that quote, I was referring to the community itself, not me.
It'd be interesting to get some more opinions on the topic subject, instead of seeing people just quote Gandalf.
People can express their opinions all they want, but ****ting on the community will never be allowed. Those who also continue to beg for the community to become strict RP need to understand that it's been said many times before: It isn't going to happen.
No matter how much they "express their opinions" on such, the answer will always be the same.
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I can't believe I'm agreeing with Sugar but
1) Sugar isn't the one who made this topic
2) Stop telling people they are moaning when they are just pointing out something.
3) It will change through time for better or worse
And was this really the first RP community?
RPG*
http://wiki.argonathrpg.com/index.php/Argonath_History (http://wiki.argonathrpg.com/index.php/Argonath_History)
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RPG*
RP and RPG are the same thing. One is just an action, whereas the other is a game genre based on said action.
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Ok, now how about something about the topic and not a history lesson on RP and RPG.
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Ok, now how about something about the topic and not a history lesson on RP and RPG.
What is there to be said? I don't understand the point of it, we know it's a RPG server, we know there is DM and WE can't change it, WE as in the frequent viewer of this topic , like I said there are hundreds of people joining weekly, we can't control them all, you are telling us this isn't an idea topic.. well what is there to discuss other than ideas how to prevent this, I read the comment "it's not about guns it's about the players" how can we tell the player to stop DMing when he doesn't care about us because we have no "power" against him and he agrees with an admin untill the admin leaves him alone, and I can't give you my idea because Cyril told us this isn't an Idea topic, tell us what you want to hear from us, this is too damn complicated.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/37647414.jpg)
(http://th388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/Woodforsheep/th_Facedesk.png)
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tell us what you want to hear from us, this is too damn complicated.
Nothing, nothing at all.
Silence is the best answer, apart from Hotmail.
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I joined in early-to-mid 2007. I just didn't join the forum until some time later.
Under which nickname? :D
****ting on the community will never be allowed. Those who also continue to beg for the community to become strict RP need to understand that it's been said many times before: It isn't going to happen.
No matter how much they "express their opinions" on such, the answer will always be the same.
That's got nothing to do with what I said, though.
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Under which nickname? :D
That's got nothing to do with what I said, though.
1. Another tagged variation of "SugarD".
2. People are misusing this topic to **** on the community and use it as an excuse to justify making it strict RP, instead of expressing their opinions in a positive way. That's what that part was aimed at.
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Nothing, nothing at all.
Silence is the best answer, apart from Hotmail.
I.. hotmail.. well atleast my brother will be happy SOMEONE is using hotmail..
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As long as the suggestions aren't in breach of any forum rules, I don't think there's anything wrong with them, though. Whether or not you agree with them or find them useful or useless is a completely different story. :)
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Forced roleplay server definitely won't fix the case. I've been playing forced rp server my self for a month just to give it ago,during patrol with an officer for a hour,his car received shots three time for no roleplay manner.
Interaction between anyone ended up with shoot out anyway and death spree is going faster there than sentences written on local chat.
It's all about people not silly players from forced rp servers who crawled here to tell us how shit is better there,because it's not,just biased butthurt view on things . :lol: :m4: :sig:
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Ok, let me speak.
1- About Mordor event.
I don't really know what happened today, neither why really Ramo is banned. But until yesterday's evening that event was funny, RP and NOT a DM fest. People were RPing militants and/or soldiers. Patrols, guarding and all that. I cannot say for everyone - but during that event I shooted only two bullets, none of them leading to anyone death.
As I was absent during today's incident I can't judge it - but before I were told to not shoot until permitted by one of leaders - Ramo, Louis or Stefan. But some cops still were arriving and trying to ruin the RP, thinking that being on duty makes them almightly.
2- About TDM.
I doubt the problem is or was only with Mordor event - every day we can see some people suspected for minor crimes in general - evading or reckless driving. And Sultans full of heavy-armed family members, that often cause big DM, driving all around LS instead of evading somewhere to Tierra Robada. Those guys can even shoot a cop being not wanted just because he's a cop near their suspected friend.
From the other side, as stated, few RP from cops during a hostage taking or something like that. Mostly after some moment they get in and DM all that moves, not only fotgetting to RP but also forgetting of being realistic. Ok, let's forget about organised crime. Clear situation: Citizen X is suspected for reckless driving, just because he crashed into a cop car. He stops and gets out without weapons just to talk. Instead he gets some spray in his face, hears the /m2 or /s2 and often gets killed.
Briefly - the TDM problem was NOT only in Mordor event, we see that TDM and/or DM every day from we get moe than 40 active online players.
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No.
RPG is light roleplay. Unrealistic names can be chosen like SugarD. It's a big diffrence between RP and RPG. RPG is indeed based on action, like Argonath. But Argonath do have players with great roleplay skills. Other RPG servers have a big lack of good roleplayers.
Roleplay is based on real-life. Actually, if we want to roleplay we shouldn't drive on the left side of the road. Or buy a sniper for $1500. It should be way harder to get. That is what makes Argonath a (T)DM server. But if we make weapons harder to get or remove them, we'll lose plenty of players. Argonath is a RPG server. It contains lots of DM fests and useless shootouts. We can't blame anybody since it's RPG. Make Argonath a RP server with strict rules and no trolling.
Every Roleplay Server is 70% cops and robbers. Argonath is 85%. Conclusion; Useless thread, useless comments, nothing will change.
We get free weapons (pickups) in MTA:VC, yet we didn't have widespread problems like what SA:MP is having right now. Your point?
Our community, our admins, our rules are fine. It's the players that keep taking advantage of our unique view and try to twist it in their favor.
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Then they can leave if they can't follow the rules. Else, we'll force those who don't to learn to follow them:;)
This is the problem, we should be happy there is not so many people like you on this server.
Anyhow, it's gonna be hard to make a change if you can't make a slightest change to the rules.
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It's not "the people that are "holding/helping" the community" that spent their day deathmatching. It's not up to them to change.
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Well there is a funtion to report regular players to, but thats not my point. Im saying there are some admins that sometimes dm to but are to stuck up to see that themself and when i see that i loose my respect for him.
Take screenshots, save your logs, and report them to the appropriate email. Managers and above for that server see the emails, so it will be investigated.
I know you said it, I can read. And how do you know it won't work, you tried it? No. Anyway, I'm out of here.
That is what you are doing - ruining argonath... Demanding more rules, making strict roleplay, brought shitty OOC and IC logs that actually have no use and besides it shit the chat ...
Yes, I am against... Yes you made Argonath a shitty place cos you all are f**king moaning, forgettin how you played before, forgetting, how people reacted on you... Now you wanna everything scripted... Even respect to each other wanna make scripted...
Are not welcomed people who start implementing the own rules into Argonath rules... Who are trying to make Argonath a strict roleplay prison...
Are you trying to bring into Argonath the "serious" roleplay with OOC/IC shit and others do not hey do not fart do not fight do not talk do not pee do not poo etc...? If answer is "yes" - then you are not welcomed...
Argonath RPG has its own rules and if you do not like it - why the f**k we must change it for you?
We had and have a great community which veterans came from free roleplay of Vice City and nobody moaned their asses off...
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Admins are in noway protected by Managers+, but if you don't provide enough evidences or Managers can't see anything wrong, then of course nothing will happen.
Anyway, please go back on the topic.
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The issue is not the scripts. The issue is the attitude majority of the player has. There is not many of us in here who play for entertainment and enjoyment. Instead we enter the server with a goal to win and humiliate fellow players. We do that by using guns and abusing scripts. There is nothing else then winning. We can not accept to lose, we must always win, regardless what we must do to achieve the 'champion title'.
I can take a perfect example from this topic.
Killing someone is not that easy especially if you are in a RP group. If you RP informing the victim that you're going to kill him, you will most likely fail. This is just ridiculous and and I don't even understand why do we have to discuss it. If you inform the victim over private messages or public chat, he'll most likely use this advantage to prevent you from killing him or even quit the game.
Who says we must succeed with our hitman contract? Why can't we fail with our mission? There is too much winner mentality in this server, which makes us break the rules and abuse scripts as we can not accept to lose a shootout, a hitman contract or what else we do each day.
There is up to each individual if he or she wish a change in the server. The issue is not the scripts, but the players.
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When someone is out to kill you and you show them that you dont care and you rp with them, some players gets confused these players are the one that didnt have serious rp in mind.
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When someone is out to kill you and you show them that you dont care and you rp with them, some players gets confused these players are the one that didnt have serious rp in mind.
Serious RP is not supported by Argo. Players in this community are free to make choices based on how they want the roleplay to go, even if that means realism or fantasy.
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From what I saw admins are saying people are killing others on too "light" of terms, don't get me wrong there's a lot of DM, but I would classify Argo as a light RP server and since Argo doesn't "support" serious RP there isn't much you can do about it. I always get told by some of the higher ups if I want serious RP to go to another server, maybe you should follow your own advice here. You can't have a light RP server and punish players for killing another player who rammed them, or not getting enough money in a robbery as long as there's some interaction. ( These things do happen in RL as well )... Argo's a world of it's own ;) either lighten up or go admin on a different server.. You can't have admins following a strict rule set while the server has such a small list of rules. They either both need to be adjusted or one needs to be lightened up.
I'm not 100% sure on what the guidelines are while being am admin, just the ones I've read in the application section, but from what I've gathered from mangers+, there's no real definition of a rule and it's up to the admin's interpretation of the rule on how they punish, and the admin may or may not get in trouble for doing so if it's in between managements "guidelines" . This seems to be the case with most of the players as well, they're either misguided or have their own meaning of the rules. I know Argo is against a stricter rule set but there really needs to be some clarification on what a player/mod/admin can and can't do, because depending on the mod/admin/manager/owner you talk to the rule changes on how they see fit. I can't see any system working off of this method, it only causes chaos and confusion. It really amazes me that it worked for so long, and really makes me think about what has changed within the player base.
No I don't support the T/DM, but with the current system, nothings going to change. I'm not saying turn Argo into a serious RP server, because I like it how it is, there's just some minor rules that could be adjusted/added or clarified better. Which I think could be done without turning the server into a RL simulator.
Just a few quotes to support the above:
Killing must be used as a last resort anyway. Which is the total opposite from what is happening on the server. You are all killing each other for little things.
This is for a serious RP rule set. Talk to SugarD about how the rules will never change.
You can easily say "Get of my property, you're trespassing on private property, leave or die!".
You can easily say this yes, but you can also easily get banned by 5 other admins who consider this non-rp. (see above)
Our community, our admins, our rules are fine. It's the players that keep taking advantage of our unique view and try to twist it in their favor.
Yes it's the players taking advantage of our light rule system...This community is too big to expect that a few players are going to change it, so what's the only solution left?
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This is for a serious RP rule set. Talk to SugarD about how the rules will never change.
You can easily say this yes, but you can also easily get banned by 5 other admins who consider this non-rp. (see above)
Yes it's the players taking advantage of our light rule system...This community is too big to expect that a few players are going to change it, so what's the only solution left?
1. That is not a serious RP rule. There is no rule that says you can kill as a last resort. If you have no valid RP reason to kill someone, you shouldn't be doing it at all. That doesn't matter what your options are. If you don't have a reason, don't do it.
2. Then those admins should be reported. Private property is defined by the State Constitution in SA:MP. That makes it a matter of the courts and SA:MP SAPD to handle. If an admin bans you for telling someone to get off your legally-defined property, and they have no legal reason to be there, then the admin needs to have their rights removed for playing roleplay cop with server powers.
3. Simple: Force people to behave by teaching them right from wrong. If they refuse to follow our rules, they can leave or be banned. They make their own decisions when they come here, and the fun of everyone will not be spoiled by the greed of a few. If they learn the rules and still refuse to follow them, it is only their own negativity that will be their downfall.
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1. That is not a serious RP rule. There is no rule that says you can kill as a last resort. If you have no valid RP reason to kill someone, you shouldn't be doing it at all. That doesn't matter what your options are. If you don't have a reason, don't do it.
Killing MUST be used as a last resort anyway.
Argo is a light RP server there for killing for less serious things should be accepted as long as some RP is involved, unless they wish to define otherwise ( which they have about robberies, they just need to clarify the other 100 ways to DM ) . The reason I quoted this was because it's coming from an admin, who possibly bases his punishments off of this during a RP situation, which in no way is stated in Argo's rules.
2. Then those admins should be reported. Private property is defined by the State Constitution in SA:MP. That makes it a matter of the courts and SA:MP SAPD to handle. If an admin bans you for telling someone to get off your legally-defined property, and they have no legal reason to be there, then the admin needs to have their rights removed for playing roleplay cop with server powers.
Oh they have been, but I got banned in the process. My point in saying that is that there needs to be a more thorough explanation of the rules, so mistakes don't happen.
3. Simple: Force people to behave by teaching them right from wrong. If they refuse to follow our rules, they can leave or be banned. They make their own decisions when they come here, and the fun of everyone will not be spoiled by the greed of a few. If they learn the rules and still refuse to follow them, it is only their own negativity that will be their downfall.
Here lies another problem within Argo. I'm not going to say names but during my time playing here I've seen several players who have been banned 10-15x for the same reason and they're allowed back, time after time. If they don't get it the 1st 5times why're they being allowed back? I understand being banned for different things but being banned for the same thing repeatedly makes no sense to me.
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We get free weapons (pickups) in MTA:VC, yet we didn't have widespread problems like what SA:MP is having right now. Your point?
Our community, our admins, our rules are fine. It's the players that keep taking advantage of our unique view and try to twist it in their favor.
Probably because MTA:VC is not filled with retards.
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Topic unlocked.
I would like to reiterate several points that must be made clear:
1. Argonath is its own unique community, one of the very first RPG servers, and has been so since 2006. That has been a major factor contributing to our success over the past 6+ years. Changing the community's standards and gamemode to those found on other servers will NOT solve any problems, but will only cause more problems for this community. We will not change according to the demands of shitters and people who want us to become like the other servers that are mostly-similar copies of each other. If you cannot deal with that, then leave.
2. Admins and "higher-ranked players" do not have "special protection" from Managers+ and the consequences that await rulebreaking admins are worse than those that await rulebreaking non-admin players. The rule is simple; the higher you go up the ladder, the more your responsibilities and obligations. All complaints send to the complaint emails are read and will be acted upon unless they have inadequate evidence or are mere criticism / moaning vs. admins. If an admin breaks rules, report to their respective complaint emails (for SA:MP RPG: [email protected]) instead of moaning.
3. Admins are players who give their time and effort to protect this community with no compensation other than the thanks of players. We do not receive benefits such as salary, extra houses / businesses or cars, et cetera. The admin team as a whole works under more strenuous conditions and is dedicated to helping players who choose to abide by our simple rules. Admins are helpers, not oppressors. In the words of Boromir, learn to trust our helpers or leave.
4. The entire "TDM" is not the fault of the administration, but of those players who either refuse to abide by the rules, or cannot differentiate between deathmatch and combat roleplay. While admins are already acting on those players who have been causing trouble, the other problems can be easily solved if everyone works together in order to spread awareness of rules and sportsmanship rather than sitting on ass and moaning how this or that will be magically fixed if we changed into some RL-RP server or super-strict prison server.
These four points are points that any rule-abiding player should not have much problems understanding. Those who vehemently disagree and wish to continue shitting on our community are free to find some other server/forum to moan on.
For additional information on the success of the community and how it continues despite the shitters and demands for it to change, I would suggest reading through Aragorn's (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?action=profile;u=3) posts.
Future shitting and offensive posts will be dealt with according to forum policy, so please remain on topic and discuss in a respectful and constructive manner.
Thank you.
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For those who want it more strict, if we do YOU will be the first ones to leave.
If we make it strict this will happen:
- Full prohibition of any gang wars and shootouts without a reason and something to lose. Break the rule means everyone involved will be banned.
- Full prohibition on any type of flaming, swearing and name calling, including slang. Either use respectful language or get punished.
- Full prohibition of the use of OOC and IC excuses to force your roleplay on others.
- Full prohibition of abusing the 'forced roleplay' rule,
- Everyone who has been vocal about people getting unbanned too often will have to leave the community if they have ever been banned, or will be banned in the future. What you want for others goes for you as well.
Now are you REALLY ready for us to be strict?
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I'd like to see strict version of Argo at least for 7 days. I'm sure that everyone who is enjoying RP more than getting money 24/7 would like Argo stricter. Also it would be better if you ''limit'' the usage of /p (i'll explain this when i get to PC). Do what you think is best :)
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I'd like to see strict version of Argo at least for 7 days. I'm sure that everyone who is enjoying RP more than getting money 24/7 would like Argo stricter. Also it would be better if you ''limit'' the usage of /p (i'll explain this when i get to PC). Do what you think is best :)
Unfortunately you have been banned more than once, meaning you would not be allowed to see it.
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For those who want it more strict, if we do YOU will be the first ones to leave.
If we make it strict this will happen:
- Full prohibition of any gang wars and shootouts without a reason and something to lose. Break the rule means everyone involved will be banned.
- Full prohibition on any type of flaming, swearing and name calling, including slang. Either use respectful language or get punished.
- Full prohibition of the use of for those without brains: and IC excuses to force your roleplay on others.
- Full prohibition of abusing the 'forced roleplay' rule,
- Everyone who has been vocal about people getting unbanned too often will have to leave the community if they have ever been banned, or will be banned in the future. What you want for others goes for you as well.
Now are you REALLY ready for us to be strict?
/me moves hand to keyboard
/me holds shift key and presses y key
/me releases
/me presses e key
/me releases
/me presses s key
/me releases
/me presses . key
/me moves hand to mouse
/me moves mouse to post button
/me clicks left mouse button
:lol: :lol:
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/me moves hand to keyboard
/me holds shift key and presses y key
/me releases
/me presses e key
/me releases
/me presses s key
/me releases
/me presses . key
/me moves hand to mouse
/me moves mouse to post button
/me clicks left mouse button
** JDC examines the post and makes an assessment.
JDC says: ((Horrendous. This is a very unprofessional example of RP))
JDC says: ((Why? U did not include the part where ur muscles tense to press.))
JDC says: ((U also did not wait 4 page to load and see the post in thread.))
JDC says: ((Now I report u to edmin so u will be banned 4 poor RP.))
:rofl:
On a serious note, I'm sure plenty of those people who request for the "change" will regret it soon afterward, not including those who are very vocal in their advocacy, yet will be the first to go.
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haha, JDC.
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/me moves hand to keyboard
/me holds shift key and presses y key
/me releases
/me presses e key
/me releases
/me presses s key
/me releases
/me presses . key
/me moves hand to mouse
/me moves mouse to post button
/me clicks left mouse button
:lol: :lol:
Teddy OMG you didn't know what key was the Y key! Metagaming!!!!
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/me moves hand to keyboard
/me holds shift key and presses y key
/me releases
/me presses e key
/me releases
/me presses s key
/me releases
/me presses . key
/me moves hand to mouse
/me moves mouse to post button
/me clicks left mouse button
:lol: :lol:
Effin keybinds, I get u bans'd
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For those who want it more strict, if we do YOU will be the first ones to leave.
If we make it strict this will happen:
- Full prohibition of any gang wars and shootouts without a reason and something to lose. Break the rule means everyone involved will be banned.
- Full prohibition on any type of flaming, swearing and name calling, including slang. Either use respectful language or get punished.
- Full prohibition of the use of for those without brains: and IC excuses to force your roleplay on others.
- Full prohibition of abusing the 'forced roleplay' rule,
- Everyone who has been vocal about people getting unbanned too often will have to leave the community if they have ever been banned, or will be banned in the future. What you want for others goes for you as well.
Now are you REALLY ready for us to be strict?
I'm ready! :D
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I'm ready! :D
Pssssst.. next years' 1st of April joke?
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Pssssst.. next years' 1st of April joke?
What?
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What?
He meant that maybe we become an "RLRP server" for a day for the next April Fools' prank.
:devroll:
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/me moves hand to keyboard
/me holds shift key and presses y key
/me releases
/me presses e key
/me releases
/me presses s key
/me releases
/me presses . key
/me moves hand to mouse
/me moves mouse to post button
/me clicks left mouse button
:lol: :lol:
(( Why are you roleplaying IRL actions? You're mixing in-character and out-of-character!!! Your name is not a roleplay name!!! YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES!!! YOU SHOULD BE BANNED!!! ))
:lol:
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somethingweird you guys are doing it wrong somethingwierd
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somethingweird
LOL does anyone else still remember when/why this was implemented?
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LOL does anyone else still remember when/why this was implemented?
Something silly regarding an anti-Argo situation a few years ago.
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To all:
Instead of bringing out worthless arguments here, acknowledge the reminder and bring up some constructive criticism which is appropriate.
Sadly, when you at least try for some dialogue between players and admins, sooner or later one lost son of Argonath will definitely say that this is shitting on a-team and the discussion will be bombarded with flaming, disrespecting, abusing powers, it goes on. There have been quite a goddamn lot of attempts to do so, and all of them are just that, in vain.
Add a rule to prohibit talking to admins and everything will be fine.
Sarcasm aside, eventually it will be that way, sadly.
Post Merge: May 10, 2013, 10:56:18 am
Killing must be used as a last resort anyway. Which is the total opposite from what is happening on the server. You are all killing each other for little things.
Funnily, no one ever came to think about why it happens. Why people want to kill eachother so badly on the server?
Everyone sooner or later claims that they roleplay their shootouts, others do not find it roleplaying and come about moaning on DMing on the server.
The reason behind this attitude on the server is simple.
Remember the age range of our community?
Most of people who come on SAMP, firstly find servers such as Godfather, or ours. And then, when they realise they can roleplay, who should you roleplay in a Grand Theft Auto game, a game about mercilessely shooting people, running them over, blowing stuff?
Gangsters, mobsters, mafia - just name it. Either people want to become badass criminals who can escape justice just by thinking about it. The other big amount of people who play either want to become harbingers of justice or simply to oppose the criminal part of our world.
Another big reason is the fact that Argonath Community is a land of opportunities - everything to get here is easy as hell. Including means to become either a big fat criminal with minigun-sized limitless arsenal and fastest cars on the East (San Andreas is on the East, right?)
I was waiting for the moment to nullify the stats on the server with all my passion. Then people will have to learn to work hard for their money and to preserve their virtual lifes. With the currently more-than-sad economy of Argonath and especially big deflation of prices, you can buy a week-worth of shooting guns on the starting 10k of money, and, with the help of joining a family/organisation, with the help of friendlyness for starting players ability to become the monster-mobster is nearly there for you, right from the start.
P.S.: Finally, someone mentioned a quote of "Aragorn" which lead to an interesting topic "Why is SA:MP players srs bsns?"
The best quote, from, I dare you, 2009! which has lived up to the best expectations when Squeak said so:
Let me put it this way.
SAMP is to Argonath as /b/ is to 4chan, full of cancer.
Thank you for your attention
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(( Why are you roleplaying IRL actions? You're mixing in-character and out-of-character!!! Your name is not a roleplay name!!! YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES!!! YOU SHOULD BE BANNED!!! ))
:lol:
You are wrong, again. It doesn't have to be a IRL action, he could RP posting something IG on a computer? Didnt think about that one, I guess. And if his name wasnt aroleplay name, he would have been asked to get a new one when he tried to create his account. So in fact, he is following rules as the "RL-RP server" you are trying to act like now accepts those names. :banana:
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You are wrong, again. It doesn't have to be a IRL action, he could RP posting something IG on a computer? Didnt think about that one, I guess. And if his name wasnt aroleplay name, he would have been asked to get a new one when he tried to create his account. So in fact, he is following rules as the "RL-RP server" you are trying to act like now accepts those names. :banana:
Little do you realize, that was a sarcastic joke, as Argonath RPG is not RL-RP or strict RP. Nice try, though. ;)
Sadly, when you at least try for some dialogue between players and admins, sooner or later one lost son of Argonath will definitely say that this is shitting on a-team and the discussion will be bombarded with flaming, disrespecting, abusing powers, it goes on. There have been quite a goddamn lot of attempts to do so, and all of them are just that, in vain.
Add a rule to prohibit talking to admins and everything will be fine.
Sarcasm aside, eventually it will be that way, sadly.
Wrong. Players are more than welcome to discuss situations with admins in a polite, non-provoking manner that contains common sense. Coming to an admin saying, "**** you", "why did you punish me?!?", or "all admins are abusive" is not the proper way to approach a situation. There is a clear difference between constructive criticism and moaning. The problem is that many think the former gives them an excuse to conceal complaints within it, when it is really just the latter in disguise...
P.S.: Finally, someone mentioned a quote of "Aragorn" which lead to an interesting topic "Why is SA:MP players srs bsns?"
The best quote, from, I dare you, 2009! which has lived up to the best expectations when Squeak said so:
Let me put it this way.
SAMP is to Argonath as /b/ is to 4chan, full of cancer.
Thank you for your attention
Key words: "Full of". He did not say SA:MP was cancer. He said it was full of cancer. Again, that goes back to negative player attitudes. If people want the problems fixed, they need to stop acting childish and follow the rules. The taunting, flaming, provoking, trolling, deathmatching, etc. will only stop when they make the clear and conscious choice to stop themselves. Until then, nothing will be fixed, and no matter what the admins try to do, it will not stop. It is the players who run this community, and thus, is it the players who control it's future success. If you all want the problems to stop, stop doing them yourselves, and try to convince others to not do them either.
To add to that, those of you who flame and provoke others for trying to teach the rules to new and unknowing players should be ashamed. There are many times where admins are not online and regulars take advantage of that. The few who try to keep order by verbally telling someone the rules, (in a peaceful, non-provoking way), often get ridiculed by everyone else in the server. That is exactly why the morale is so low. Until people change their attitudes as a whole, the problems will continue because the few who try to change will stay powerless, and may even revert to negative actions themselves, all out of frustration and anger.
We have lost many long-time players over this exact problem.
You, the players, are the ones that can solve this problem...and it is only you who can solve it. Make the change if you want change yourself. If you do not try, you have no right to complain, as you are part of the problem then...
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Little do you realize, that was a sarcastic joke, as Argonath RPG is not RL-RP or strict RP. Nice try, though. ;)
Oh damn, I didn't get that one, you really got me there sugarbee.
Seems like you didnt get my sarcasm though.
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Oh damn, I didn't get that one, you really got me there sugarbee.
Seems like you didnt get my sarcasm though.
I did. I just felt like being serious in my reply so others would not get confused by the discussion. :)
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I was waiting for the moment to nullify the stats on the server with all my passion. Then people will have to learn to work hard for their money and to preserve their virtual lifes. With the currently more-than-sad economy of Argonath and especially big deflation of prices, you can buy a week-worth of shooting guns on the starting 10k of money, and, with the help of joining a family/organisation, with the help of friendlyness for starting players ability to become the monster-mobster is nearly there for you, right from the start.
Some people would have to find different ways to make money, but for how long will this last? I don't think it'll last longer than a month. It is nice to see there's at least some kind of an economy present, even when some think it's very flawed. I think one of the key elements to the change the SA:MP Argonath economy underwent is the car system. Before RS4.1, cars were sold from person to person, would be there regardless of whether or not the owner was in the server and were therefore more than objects you buy from a script, and sell to a script to get some of the money back, later. They also had kind of an iconic thing to them, because only after a long while of trying, you'd finally be able to buy that Cheetah or Comet. And of course you could only own one, so you had to make your mind up, and if you wanted something else, you would have to sell your current vehicle.
That last part is what's important, because this created business by itself. The limitation forced players to try and make money off of their vehicles, and with that money help OTHERS, by buying their vehicles they had for sale. It was different from property, because unlike vehicles, players didn't really have to have a house or a business, and more importantly, the wanted property was for sale far less than wanted vehicles, because of this limitation to one vehicle a person.
If anything's to be blamed for a flawed economy, it's the change in vehicle system, not the players. Players were made by the system, not the other way round. I trust that RS5 will restore this structure, if not bring a lot more to the table to stimulate and cause for a sprawling economy. Kind of a real 'economic stimulus', this time. :roll:
No, nulling the statistics will only be a temporary 'solution' and a gamechanger. It won't change anything on the long road.
Gangsters, mobsters, mafia - just name it. Either people want to become badass criminals who can escape justice just by thinking about it. The other big amount of people who play either want to become harbingers of justice or simply to oppose the criminal part of our world.
Another big reason is the fact that Argonath Community is a land of opportunities - everything to get here is easy as hell. Including means to become either a big fat criminal with minigun-sized limitless arsenal and fastest cars on the East (San Andreas is on the East, right?)
But then again you have to ask yourself what that means to others. There are still groups of people that respect the real criminals, the ones with reputations built up over the years (Angels of Death, 58th Street Connecta, although I'm not sure if the latter still exists.) It's all a matter of interpretation. People won't remember some random guy shooting with the biggest weapons, driving with the biggests cars. It's absolutely meaningless to everyone, where respect and reputation is not. People will remember, and this is what motivates some to keep going. I still remember the greats that I've had the pleasure of roleplaying with.
Most of people who come on SAMP, firstly find servers such as Godfather, or ours. And then, when they realise they can roleplay, who should you roleplay in a Grand Theft Auto game, a game about mercilessely shooting people, running them over, blowing stuff?
I may be contradicting my earlier post by saying this, but I think most will be influenced by the community around them, instead of the game the community is based in. Over time, at least...
The reason behind this attitude on the server is simple.
Remember the age range of our community?
Like I said before, this is very true. Instead of just refering to it as age, I'd like to say that I think it's also a cultural difference. I'm not trying to get too serious, but there are these subcultures within the 'Argonath culture'. A good example would be the players from former-Yugoslavia. A great bunch of them seem to stick to each other ingame, primarily talking in their own language to each other, and being more with themselfs than adapting from others.
The community is an everchanging community. If you were to compare it every six months you'd notice differences already. Players come and players go, this is pretty basic and known. What however should be more known (and this is actually on topic, which can't really be said about everything else I just wrote down, I just realized :D), is that with these differences, the approach to murder and death will also vary more than it used to do. Some roleplay shouldn't be regarded to as 'no roleplay' by the administration, but as different roleplay, poor or not. There has to be more leniency when reviewing a case of 'deathmatch', because I believe that roleplay sometimes gets mistaken for deathmatch.
New players just have to learn, and their roleplay won't be as spectacular as some regulars may be able to roleplay. Give them a chance instead of treating their attempts as deathmatch. Some may take longer (1 year perhaps) to learn the trick of the trade than others (1 month.) There may be a language barrier, or they may be developing a different style of roleplay. With a bit more leniency and understanding, a large part of the problem will be non-existent or solve itself over time. Killing must not be a 'last resort', you have to let happen what happens.
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Thanks to every participant in this topic that derailed it even more... The soul purpose about the topic lost its way a long time ago.
Ciao.