Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Petarda on May 20, 2013, 03:21:17 pm
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Flame, Lincoln is allowed to open fire on cops if he was involved in that crime all the time, Gandalf said that clearly
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If you lose your wanted level, i.e you succesfully escape, then you have to leave the car and can't aid anymore.
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If you lose your wanted level, i.e you succesfully escape, then you have to leave the car and can't aid anymore.
Oh, really? You're driving in car with one friend and since you were suspected 1 minute before him you must jump off the bike and let him get caught?
No, if you made a organised crime, you will escape together
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If you lose your wanted level, i.e you succesfully escape, then you have to leave the car and can't aid anymore.
There was a similar situation with criminals on a boat. Gandalf was on an UC account and was removing the wanted levels of players being suspected more than once.
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Oh, really? You're driving in car with one friend and since you were suspected 1 minute before him you must jump off the bike and let him get caught?
No, if you made a organised crime, you will escape together
If you escape, you have to leave the vehicle and can't aid anymore. That's all.
I remind you that cops are not allowed to resuspect you when you lose your wanted level, so you want to blast cops without being suspected?
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If you escape, you have to leave the vehicle and can't aid anymore. That's all.
I remind you that cops are not allowed to resuspect you when you lose your wanted level, so you want to blast cops without being suspected?
I'd like to hear answer from Gandalf
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I remind you that cops are not allowed to resuspect you when you lose your wanted level, so you want to blast cops without being suspected?
No, but you shouldn't be suspected for just being in the car, since most of the time the two or more suspects don't have the same /rhl. This makes it nearly impossible for suspects escape.
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When you, the suspect loses his/her wanted level, you should leave the group of remaining suspects as you have as said "escaped".
You do not start shouting to get re-suspected, you do not try get in the way of the cops to still "aid" your friends, you leave the scene as a civilian.
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When you, the suspect loses his/her wanted level, you should leave the group of remaining suspects as you have as said "escaped".
You do not start shouting to get re-suspected, you do not try get in the way of the cops to still "aid" your friends, you leave the scene as a civilian.
There was a similar situation with criminals on a boat. Gandalf was on an UC account and was removing the wanted levels of players being suspected more than once.
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No, but you shouldn't be suspected for just being in the car, since most of the time the two or more suspects don't have the same /rhl. This makes it nearly impossible for suspects escape.
Well.. that's just something you have to deal with. If your RHL differences are high and you wish to escape then you should split up. Staying with your friends to aid them later means that you need to be suspected again.
When you, the suspect loses his/her wanted level, you should leave the group of remaining suspects as you have as said "escaped".
You do not start shouting to get re-suspected, you do not try get in the way of the cops to still "aid" your friends, you leave the scene as a civilian.
No, you can aid your friends if you want and if they need help to get away. You'll get suspected again, but you'll have to deal with that. Being forced to leave the scene on escape is wildly unreasonable. What if you're the driver of three suspects with longer RHLs?
As for the boat thing, I think it being on a boat was a fairly unique situation since you can't really expect people to just dive into the water. Anyone running high framerates ingame will spend 3 hours swimming back to shore.
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No, you can aid your friends if you want and if they need help to get away. You'll get suspected again, but you'll have to deal with that. Being forced to leave the scene on escape is wildly unreasonable. What if you're the driver of three suspects with longer RHLs?
Not our problem. :devroll:
The problem here is players running around for hours on end shooting cops and getting re-suspected over and over which is why we have said what we did.
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No, you can aid your friends if you want and if they need help to get away. You'll get suspected again, but you'll have to deal with that. Being forced to leave the scene on escape is wildly unreasonable. What if you're the driver of three suspects with longer RHLs?
You escaped, you leave your friends, period.
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Cyril, you're wrong.
Yesterday I've asked another admin (name's not relevant) exactly this question: "I'm in the car of a suspected friend, I'm not suspected and cops are behind us, may I drive-by?"
His response: "You should warn the cops to leave, possibly fire a warningshot and if they're still chasing you, you may open fire."
Gandalf, if you can confirm this I think this situation is solved.
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You're wrong. :D
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You are wrong... I know what I'm talking about.
It's amazing the lack of trust you have in admins
And we are talking about when you already lost your suspection level, not if you were not already suspected.
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If a bunch of officer approaches a group by five people as you've explained here and only suspect one, then they should be aware that the associates might take not the matter lightly and will retaliate to save the suspected one.
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The fact is : If you have lost your suspection level, you can't help them anymore and have to leave the RP.
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We are saying if there are 4 people in a car, one person escapes while the other three are still wanted, the one who escaped must leave.
It's as simple as that, I don't see why we must repeat the same answer over and over.
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Just remembered something
Once I was on cop duty, there was a car full of suspects escaping from me and other officers. One of them escaped and didn't leave car. After few minutes passed I suspected him again, I got frozen by admin and he told me that I can't re suspect, then guy who escaped got back in car. I explained admin that he was involved all the time and he said "Then re-suspect if needed"
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Times change, rules and regulations change.
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I have split the non-developers discussion away from the topic.
While I have given an answer (well I will once I finish this) a discussion is useful on this topic, so that we can reach a workable solution for both admins and criminals/cops involved.
What do we need to solve?
1. Evading the cops until the wanted level is dropped is one of the encouraged ways for criminals who do not want to go to jail. It is preferred above fighting until death.
2. In many cases, criminals are evading in a group. As crimes can vary their RHL time (time until wanted level is removed) can vary as well.
3. If one of the criminals loses their wanted level, this is considered an 'end of roleplay' similar to dying. This means the criminal should no longer be considered part of roleplay, and not be involving them selves in it.
4. It is however not fair to ask a criminal to step out of the group if they are in a vehicle in the middle of nowhere, or on a boat. For this we need a workable solution.
5. What is clear is that the ciminals who lose their wanted level should leave the roleplay if possible, and are not allowed to continue to take part in it, similar as they would not be allowed to reappear if they die.
6. This also means that cops who are chasing should watch if a member is no longer suspected. They can then assume safely he is no longer allowed to take part and they are not allowed to (re)suspect.
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I have split the non-developers discussion away from the topic.
While I have given an answer (well I will once I finish this) a discussion is useful on this topic, so that we can reach a workable solution for both admins and criminals/cops involved.
What do we need to solve?
1. Evading the cops until the wanted level is dropped is one of the encouraged ways for criminals who do not want to go to jail. It is preferred above fighting until death.
2. In many cases, criminals are evading in a group. As crimes can vary their RHL time (time until wanted level is removed) can vary as well.
3. If one of the criminals loses their wanted level, this is considered an 'end of roleplay' similar to dying. This means the criminal should no longer be considered part of roleplay, and not be involving them selves in it.
4. It is however not fair to ask a criminal to step out of the group if they are in a vehicle in the middle of nowhere, or on a boat. For this we need a workable solution.
5. What is clear is that the ciminals who lose their wanted level should leave the roleplay if possible, and are not allowed to continue to take part in it, similar as they would not be allowed to reappear if they die.
6. This also means that cops who are chasing should watch if a member is no longer suspected. They can then assume safely he is no longer allowed to take part and they are not allowed to (re)suspect.
In the vehicle situation, technically the rules already cover this, unless the person who's RHL timer runs out is the driver. When the rules changed in SA:MP long ago, they stated something around the idea of not suspecting passengers of vehicles just for being inside the vehicle of a suspected player driving it. If the rules are followed regarding aiding, when they lose their suspection and are passengers in the vehicle, people should not resuspect them anyway, and they should not continue to aid. This is all already possible, and technically has been the rules for quite some time. The only issue I see is if the driver is unsuspected and the passengers aren't, as that would be seen as aiding, and thus rejoining the roleplay as a suspected person.
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I have split the non-developers discussion away from the topic.
While I have given an answer (well I will once I finish this) a discussion is useful on this topic, so that we can reach a workable solution for both admins and criminals/cops involved.
What do we need to solve?
1. Evading the cops until the wanted level is dropped is one of the encouraged ways for criminals who do not want to go to jail. It is preferred above fighting until death.
2. In many cases, criminals are evading in a group. As crimes can vary their RHL time (time until wanted level is removed) can vary as well.
3. If one of the criminals loses their wanted level, this is considered an 'end of roleplay' similar to dying. This means the criminal should no longer be considered part of roleplay, and not be involving them selves in it.
4. It is however not fair to ask a criminal to step out of the group if they are in a vehicle in the middle of nowhere, or on a boat. For this we need a workable solution.
5. What is clear is that the ciminals who lose their wanted level should leave the roleplay if possible, and are not allowed to continue to take part in it, similar as they would not be allowed to reappear if they die.
6. This also means that cops who are chasing should watch if a member is no longer suspected. They can then assume safely he is no longer allowed to take part and they are not allowed to (re)suspect.
To me, all of this is new. When did all this get implemented?
Back in 2012, none of these 'rules' were there, so I wonder who made them. A wanted level meant the cops suspected you of doing something against the law. Not having a wanted level didn't mean you didn't or weren't commit(ting) any crime. It was just an indication for the law enforcement, nothing more than an indication. It does kind of sadden me to see stuff like this, because this just disencourages a natural way for a roleplay scenario to exist. People will now have to make sure they have enough time on their /rhl to keep playing with their friends, how crazy is that? How are they going to make sure they have enough time on that, so they won't be forced to stop participating in their group's roleplay? That's right, kill as many people as you can, otherwise the fun ends far too soon. Why does it end too soon? Because you're 'encouraged to evade the cops', and therefore the counter goes down.
The roleplay freedom that used to be there cannot exist with nonsense regulations and rules like this. I can't imagine cruising with my biker gang, trying to escape the cops, when the guy sitting on the back of my bike, taking care of any assaulting officers, has to leave as soon as we're progressing and he loses his wanted level. This way, when you're with 4 people, you'll eventually end up alone, trying to escape the cops. All this does is disencourage multiplaying, evading the cops, freedom (in criminal roleplay), fun and realistically oriented roleplay. What it does encourage however, is deathmatch and other ways to keep the /rhl high, people trying to kill or get killed instead of escaping, frustration amongst criminal roleplayers and any other ways to try and evade this crazy system where you are no longer allowed to play with your friends if they are orange and you are not.
What happened to the days when a wanted level was just an indicator, that wasn't anything but an indicator?
It should've been kept simple and free...
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To me, all of this is new. When did all this get implemented?
Back in 2012, none of these 'rules' were there, so I wonder who made them.
Back in 2012? These rules have existed ever since the RHL script was added back in SA:MP RS4.0...
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What happened to the days when a wanted level was just an indicator, that wasn't anything but an indicator?
It should've been kept simple and free...
What happened to the time that killing others was not considered a necessary part of roleplay?
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Listen up...
Lets take this like a example, you are inside a bank in Los Santos. Then all getting suspected for ''Bank robbery'' in some way, some criminals inside the bank lose their suspect. And they got the money. And walk out and cops cant ''re-suspect'' them. Because they are not part of the roleplay cuz they lost their suspect. Well...they had the bag with the money inside and walked out and no cops can touch them.
Anyone see the point?
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What happened to the time that killing others was not considered a necessary part of roleplay?
It isn't to me, but this system does encourage it. Not just for the obvious reasons of making sure you can keep playing with your friends, but also because you can't even start playing with wanted people if you're not wanted, according to this.
Back in 2012? These rules have existed ever since the RHL script was added back in SA:MP RS4.0...
Then nobody has enforced them.
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Listen up...
Lets take this like a example, you are inside a bank in Los Santos. Then all getting suspected for ''Bank robbery'' in some way, some criminals inside the bank lose their suspect. And they got the money. And walk out and cops cant ''re-suspect'' them. Because they are not part of the roleplay cuz they lost their suspect. Well...they had the bag with the money inside and walked out and no cops can touch them.
Anyone see the point?
If cops are outside, they shouldn't be losing their suspection. If they are losing it because of a bug caused by the interior distance from being in another virtual world, they would simply be resuspected. Script bugs have never been an excuse for advantages or disadvantages.
Then nobody has enforced them.
I can think of plenty of people and groups banned and punished for such.
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Listen up...
Lets take this like a example, you are inside a bank in Los Santos. Then all getting suspected for ''Bank robbery'' in some way, some criminals inside the bank lose their suspect. And they got the money. And walk out and cops cant ''re-suspect'' them. Because they are not part of the roleplay cuz they lost their suspect. Well...they had the bag with the money inside and walked out and no cops can touch them.
Anyone see the point?
The only way they can lose their wanted level is by script error or script abuse.
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Listen up...
Lets take this like a example, you are inside a bank in Los Santos. Then all getting suspected for ''Bank robbery'' in some way, some criminals inside the bank lose their suspect. And they got the money. And walk out and cops cant ''re-suspect'' them. Because they are not part of the roleplay cuz they lost their suspect. Well...they had the bag with the money inside and walked out and no cops can touch them.
Anyone see the point?
If cops are outside, you won't lose your suspection level...
Edit: Gandalf please stop stealing my answers :cry:
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I have split the non-developers discussion away from the topic.
While I have given an answer (well I will once I finish this) a discussion is useful on this topic, so that we can reach a workable solution for both admins and criminals/cops involved.
What do we need to solve?
1. Evading the cops until the wanted level is dropped is one of the encouraged ways for criminals who do not want to go to jail. It is preferred above fighting until death.
2. In many cases, criminals are evading in a group. As crimes can vary their RHL time (time until wanted level is removed) can vary as well.
3. If one of the criminals loses their wanted level, this is considered an 'end of roleplay' similar to dying. This means the criminal should no longer be considered part of roleplay, and not be involving them selves in it.
4. It is however not fair to ask a criminal to step out of the group if they are in a vehicle in the middle of nowhere, or on a boat. For this we need a workable solution.
5. What is clear is that the ciminals who lose their wanted level should leave the roleplay if possible, and are not allowed to continue to take part in it, similar as they would not be allowed to reappear if they die.
6. This also means that cops who are chasing should watch if a member is no longer suspected. They can then assume safely he is no longer allowed to take part and they are not allowed to (re)suspect.
That goes for all the ignorant ones who have ignored what criminals have been informing you the whole time.
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I can think of plenty of people and groups banned and punished for such.
For this?:
A wanted level meant the cops suspected you of doing something against the law. Not having a wanted level didn't mean you didn't or weren't commit(ting) any crime. It was just an indication for the law enforcement, nothing more than an indication. It does kind of sadden me to see stuff like this, because this just disencourages a natural way for a roleplay scenario to exist. People will now have to make sure they have enough time on their /rhl to keep playing with their friends, how crazy is that? How are they going to make sure they have enough time on that, so they won't be forced to stop participating in their group's roleplay? That's right, kill as many people as you can, otherwise the fun ends far too soon. Why does it end too soon? Because you're 'encouraged to evade the cops', and therefore the counter goes down.
The roleplay freedom that used to be there cannot exist with nonsense regulations and rules like this. I can't imagine cruising with my biker gang, trying to escape the cops, when the guy sitting on the back of my bike, taking care of any assaulting officers, has to leave as soon as we're progressing and he loses his wanted level. This way, when you're with 4 people, you'll eventually end up alone, trying to escape the cops. All this does is disencourage multiplaying, evading the cops, freedom (in criminal roleplay), fun and realistically oriented roleplay. What it does encourage however, is deathmatch and other ways to keep the /rhl high, people trying to kill or get killed instead of escaping, frustration amongst criminal roleplayers and any other ways to try and evade this crazy system where you are no longer allowed to play with your friends if they are orange and you are not.
I cannot.
Is it not true?
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It isn't to me, but this system does encourage it. Not just for the obvious reasons of making sure you can keep playing with your friends, but also because you can't even start playing with wanted people if you're not wanted, according to this.
If you mean by playing to join in to kill cops, you are right that you can not.
As for the system encouraging it, you are wRONg. The system does not discourage it, which is a whole different kind of thing.
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That goes for all the ignorant ones who have ignored what criminals have been informing you the whole time.
I appreciate your compliment and I love you too.
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For this?:
I cannot.
Is it not true?
No it is not true. The problem here is that people do not see a wanted indicator as that they did something against the law, but as a license to start killing as many as you can.
That by itself is bannable.
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That goes for all the ignorant ones who have ignored what criminals have been informing you the whole time.
The issue is to find a workable solution where everyone involved will know how to act and what is allowed or not.
It should break the endless violence from both sides and allow players who follow the rules and guidelines to play respecting each other, regardless what role they choose.
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Is it not true?
No.
A wanted level meant the cops suspected you of doing something against the law. Not having a wanted level didn't mean you didn't or weren't commit(ting) any crime. It was just an indication for the law enforcement, nothing more than an indication.
That would be true.
It does kind of sadden me to see stuff like this, because this just discourages a natural way for a roleplay scenario to exist. People will now have to make sure they have enough time on their /rhl to keep playing with their friends, how crazy is that? How are they going to make sure they have enough time on that, so they won't be forced to stop participating in their group's roleplay? That's right, kill as many people as you can, otherwise the fun ends far too soon. Why does it end too soon? Because you're 'encouraged to evade the cops', and therefore the counter goes down.
You can easily sit in their car or stand around waiting for the scenario to end. Being suspected should only be one part of a roleplay, and you can have multiple going at once as long as they don't return to the one they just were forced to leave, as per the server rules.
The roleplay freedom that used to be there cannot exist with nonsense regulations and rules like this. I can't imagine cruising with my biker gang, trying to escape the cops, when the guy sitting on the back of my bike, taking care of any assaulting officers, has to leave as soon as we're progressing and he loses his wanted level. This way, when you're with 4 people, you'll eventually end up alone, trying to escape the cops.
How? You should be trying to escape the police regardless. You aren't enemy military trying to take out the police force. You are civilians and career-criminals that don't want to get caught or be killed. The point is to get away with your crimes, if you can. If your friends have to stand by while you lose the cops, so what? You just rejoin each other after to start a new roleplay. This also does not stop them from hanging around or roleplaying with each other in your presence separate from your own situation while you all wait.
All this does is discourage multiplaying, evading the cops, freedom (in criminal roleplay), fun and realistically oriented roleplay.
So hanging around together gunning down cops constantly to no end is realistic roleplay? Evading the cops should be the number one priority for everyone suspected. If they get unsuspected or their timer runs out, they are successful. Why would they want to get suspected again and start that whole mess all over?
What it does encourage however, is deathmatch and other ways to keep the /rhl high, people trying to kill or get killed instead of escaping, frustration amongst criminal roleplayers and any other ways to try and evade this crazy system where you are no longer allowed to play with your friends if they are orange and you are not.
Actually, it discourages that. The fact that players don't follow the rules is what encourages them to get into shootouts. If they followed the rules, they would have no choice but to wait and not get involved, which has been how things were set up for years.
What happened to the days when a wanted level was just an indicator, that wasn't anything but an indicator?
It should've been kept simple and free...
When RHL was added, it gave criminals a way to escape instead of running around the map until they were jailed or died. As a result, they were removed from the ability to return after their RP ended so they wouldn't gain a massive advantage over police. Police were allowed to keep responding because they have to fight a timer which will run out if they don't. If they didn't have unlimited chances before the limited time ends, criminals would always shoot nearby cops until every single cop had died, and then they could just stand there until they escaped.
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If you mean by playing to join in to kill cops, you are right that you can not.
As for the system encouraging it, you are wRONg. The system does not discourage it, which is a whole different kind of thing.
By playing, I mean roleplaying. Roleplaying anything, because being a suspect doesn't mean anything or say anything about what you are doing exactly.
People want to play with their friends, that's the only thing most people will want to do on Argonath. This system restricts them from doing so to an extent, and they will try to find ways around it. Therefore it does encourage them to do things in order for these restrictions to be lifted for them.
Not it is not true.
I meant this part, sorry:
''A wanted level meant the cops suspected you of doing something against the law. Not having a wanted level didn't mean you didn't or weren't commit(ting) any crime. It was just an indication for the law enforcement, nothing more than an indication.''
The problem here is that people do not see a wanted indicator as that they did something against the law, but as a license to start killing as many as you can.
That by itself is bannable.
That by itself is deathmatch. I don't believe that generalization goes for everyone. It doesn't apply to me or any of the people I've roleplayed with. Besides, plain rulebreaking is what you've described, I'm sure the administration will deal with that.
No.
That would be true.
Yeah, once again, sorry, I meant the first sentence only, the thing you replied ''that would be true'' to.
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By playing, I mean roleplaying. Roleplaying anything, because being a suspect doesn't mean anything or say anything about what you are doing exactly.
People want to play with their friends, that's the only thing most people will want to do on Argonath. This system restricts them from doing so to an extent, and they will try to find ways around it. Therefore it does encourage them to do things in order for these restrictions to be lifted for them.
How is it restricting them? If they die, they are dead. If they are jailed, they are in a tiny, barred jail cell. In both situations, they are pretty much powerless from roleplaying with you anyway. If they are unsuspected/their timer runs out, nothing stops them from roleplaying with you.
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By playing, I mean roleplaying. Roleplaying anything, because being a suspect doesn't mean anything or say anything about what you are doing exactly.
People want to play with their friends, that's the only thing most people will want to do on Argonath. This system restricts them from doing so to an extent, and they will try to find ways around it. Therefore it does encourage them to do things in order for these restrictions to be lifted for them.
Being a suspect clearly means that you know you can be approached by cops any time. It is equal to driving without a license plate in real life, you know that every cop who sees you will take interest.
That restricts you from meeting cops to an extent, however becoming wanted has been your choice. By making the choice to become wanted, you also have to take the consequence of getting attention from the cops.
I meant this part, sorry:
''A wanted level meant the cops suspected you of doing something against the law. Not having a wanted level didn't mean you didn't or weren't commit(ting) any crime. It was just an indication for the law enforcement, nothing more than an indication.''
In effect a wanted level means you failed to hide your crimes from the law enforcement. It also means that you have to choose the options of losing it.
Playing on a multiplayer server like Argonath is not just interacting with your friends. You can do that in a Skype group. It means interacting with everyone who you meet. They can be new friends, old enemies or a mix. Someone can be a total jerk or a refreshing discovery. But unless you give them the chance, you will never know.
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How? You should be trying to escape the police regardless. You aren't enemy military trying to take out the police force. You are civilians and career-criminals that don't want to get caught or be killed. The point is to get away with your crimes, if you can. If your friends have to stand by while you lose the cops, so what? You just rejoin each other after to start a new roleplay. This also does not stop them from hanging around or roleplaying with each other in your presence separate from your own situation while you all wait.
That's why it's unnatural, because you have to leave each other because of these rules, instead of a roleplay related reason. Where are you getting from that violence has to be involved? In this scenario we would be trying to escape together and merely defend ourselfs when some robocop comes and starts driving by. 'So what?' It's boring, and I don't know about you, but I roleplay with my gang when we're escaping as well, not just when before or after.
You're right about one thing, though. It doesn't stop them from hanging around me if I were to be the suspect. However, when the cops come, the natural thing that would happen is that my friends would help me if things take a turn for the worse, not just let the cops kill me, which this system forces them to do, apparently.
So hanging around together gunning down cops constantly to no end is realistic roleplay? Evading the cops should be the number one priority for everyone suspected. If they get unsuspected or their timer runs out, they are successful. Why would they want to get suspected again and start that whole mess all over?
Once again, why are you assuming that I or we would do something like that? I'm not one of those people that sees beginnings and endings everywhere. Life isn't like that, my roleplaying isn't like that either. So when I escape, I wouldn't be 'successful' per say. If I happen to get suspected again, so be it. I'd rather die helping my gang than letting them get killed and run like a coward myself. Besides, I always liked a good chase, why should it be a mess?
Actually, it discourages that.
What specifically?
When RHL was added, it gave criminals a way to escape instead of running around the map until they were jailed or died. As a result, they were removed from the ability to return after their RP ended so they wouldn't gain a massive advantage over police. Police were allowed to keep responding because they have to fight a timer which will run out if they don't. If they didn't have unlimited chances before the limited time ends, criminals would always shoot nearby cops until every single cop had died, and then they could just stand there until they escaped.
This generalization about criminals just isn't correct. It isn't black or white.
How is it restricting them?
Because they can't join him when he's wanted for something that they're not (anymore). Is that so hard to see?
Being a suspect clearly means that you know you can be approached by cops any time. It is equal to driving without a license plate in real life, you know that every cop who sees you will take interest.
That restricts you from meeting cops to an extent, however becoming wanted has been your choice. By making the choice to become wanted, you also have to take the consequence of getting attention from the cops.
This is all true and I have no problem so far. I just want to be able to get helped or help my partners in crime, especially when they are in trouble.
In effect a wanted level means you failed to hide your crimes from the law enforcement. It also means that you have to choose the options of losing it.
Playing on a multiplayer server like Argonath is not just interacting with your friends. You can do that in a Skype group. It means interacting with everyone who you meet. They can be new friends, old enemies or a mix. Someone can be a total jerk or a refreshing discovery. But unless you give them the chance, you will never know.
Interacting is something you do with everyone, but being a member of a gang, group or family, you'd start most of your roleplay scenarios with them, engaging everyone else in the server with them. This is also why I'm so disappointed by this system, because it restricts it even more than it used to do already. The restrictions I'm used to, such as not running when you're cuffed, are perfectly reasonable and all, but most of this is new to me, and just removed a lot of freedom.
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That's why it's unnatural, because you have to leave each other because of these rules, instead of a roleplay related reason. Where are you getting from that violence has to be involved? In this scenario we would be trying to escape together and merely defend ourselfs when some robocop comes and starts driving by. 'So what?' It's boring, and I don't know about you, but I roleplay with my gang when we're escaping as well, not just when before or after.
You're right about one thing, though. It doesn't stop them from hanging around me if I were to be the suspect. However, when the cops come, the natural thing that would happen is that my friends would help me if things take a turn for the worse, not just let the cops kill me, which this system forces them to do, apparently.
Once again, why are you assuming that I or we would do something like that? I'm not one of those people that sees beginnings and endings everywhere. Life isn't like that, my roleplaying isn't like that either. So when I escape, I wouldn't be 'successful' per say. If I happen to get suspected again, so be it. I'd rather die helping my gang than letting them get killed and run like a coward myself. Besides, I always liked a good chase, why should it be a mess?
What specifically?
This generalization about criminals just isn't correct. It isn't black or white.
Because they can't join him when he's wanted for something that they're not (anymore). Is that so hard to see?
This is all true and I have no problem so far. I just want to be able to get helped or help my partners in crime, especially when they are in trouble.
Interacting is something you do with everyone, but being a member of a gang, group or family, you'd start most of your roleplay scenarios with them, engaging everyone else in the server with them. This is also why I'm so disappointed by this system, because it restricts it even more that it used to do already. The restrictions I'm used to, such as not running when you're cuffed, are perfectly reasonable and all, but most of this is new to me, and just removed a lot of freedom.
1. Why would you have to leave each other? That is not what I said at all. If you are referring to being jailed or killed, what do you expect? That one person in your group being killed or jailed means you all instantly do? I fail to see the "realistic roleplay" in that at all.
2. That is not what the suspection system was designed for. If you want to get into group shootouts, Paruni is a good place to play.
3. See above. I already explained it in detail, several different ways.
4. You are confusing suspects with criminals. Suspects are people caught by police breaking a crime. Criminals are people who commit crimes, but are not necessarily caught. That in itself is pretty black and white, just as it is in real life. If you commit a crime and get caught, police will come after you. If you aren't caught, good job! You pulled off a crime and got away with it! Nothing in that has changed in Argo since it's creation almost 7 years ago.
5. Who says they can't roleplay with him other ways that does not interfere with the police/suspect roleplay?
For example, say you are in a car and everyone but the driver escapes. You are all sitting around, hoping police don't find you. While doing so, one of your friends takes out a joint from his stash and passes it around. Congratulations, you have just started a separate roleplay with the suspected user without interfering with the first one!
6. No comment.
7. If you commit a crime while in said group, then you are already aware of the risks to each and everyone one of you, and as a whole. You can't expect police to magically kill you all or jail you all at the same time, just as you can't expect them to all show up at the same time. It just doesn't make sense.
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7. If you commit a crime while in said group, then you are already aware of the risks to each and everyone one of you, and as a whole. You can't expect police to magically kill you all or jail you all at the same time, just as you can't expect them to all show up at the same time. It just doesn't make sense.
That also works the other way round. You can't expect the criminal to just magically forget that they were involved in a big crime and are escaping with the other criminals involved as soon as a name turns white instead of orange. It just doesn't make sense to me. That's what's realistic, sticking together and not just magically forgetting what you were doing as soon as a counter ends.
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That also works the other way round. You can't expect the criminal to just magically forget that they were involved in a big crime and are escaping with the other criminals involved as soon as a name turns white instead of orange. It just doesn't make sense to me. That's what's realistic, sticking together and not just magically forgetting what you were doing as soon as a counter ends.
If you want to talk realistic, then please explain to me how dying and returning to the roleplay makes sense.
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If you want to talk realistic, then please explain to me how dying and returning to the roleplay makes sense.
It doesn't and why are you randomly asking this?
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The reason I see value in not just throwing away the split posts is exactly that we need to find a solution.
By the basic of how the rules are, when a player is no longer suspected he should jump out of a car (of from the bike) and leave the group. That is hardly doable when you as a group decide to move to the desert to escape.
The reason to discuss is to prevent an endless loop in which those who lost their wanted level successfully re-obtain it and continue the play past end.
The objective of the discussion is to allow a group sticking more or less together, while at the same time having awareness that they are no longer taking part in the run-and-chase scenario.
If we do not get proper suggestions, daily practice will end in admins kicking and punishing players for not leaving the group, which will be a much stronger disturbance of roleplay as stopping your trigger finger.
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It doesn't and why are you randomly asking this?
Because you asked first:
If you commit a crime while in said group, then you are already aware of the risks to each and everyone one of you, and as a whole. You can't expect police to magically kill you all or jail you all at the same time, just as you can't expect them to all show up at the same time. It just doesn't make sense.
That also works the other way round. You can't expect the criminal to just magically forget that they were involved in a big crime and are escaping with the other criminals involved as soon as a name turns white instead of orange.
The reason I see value in not just throwing away the split posts is exactly that we need to find a solution.
By the basic of how the rules are, when a player is no longer suspected he should jump out of a car (of from the bike) and leave the group. That is hardly doable when you as a group decide to move to the desert to escape.
The reason to discuss is to prevent an endless loop in which those who lost their wanted level successfully re-obtain it and continue the play past end.
The objective of the discussion is to allow a group sticking more or less together, while at the same time having awareness that they are no longer taking part in the run-and-chase scenario.
If we do not get proper suggestions, daily practice will end in admins kicking and punishing players for not leaving the group, which will be a much stronger disturbance of roleplay as stopping your trigger finger.
Following the existing rules, they can already do such. Nothing stops them from roleplaying between themselves separate from the police/suspect incident. The problem I see is that many players just lack the creativity because they want an excuse to deathmatch cops together, which has obviously never been allowed.
I can easily think of many scenarios where another roleplay separate from the restricted one can be created to keep the interaction going. I don't understand why it is so hard for others to just use their imaginations without breaking the rules. This never used to be an issue. :P
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The one who escaped should jump out of the car as soon as they have the opportunity to do it : entering a city/town, passing by a state car, being near an airport, etc.
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If we do not get proper suggestions, daily practice will end in admins kicking and punishing players for not leaving the group, which will be a much stronger disturbance of roleplay as stopping your trigger finger.
Set same RHL time for all criminals who committed a crime together. How is this not obvious?
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Set same RHL time for all criminals who committed a crime together. How is this not obvious?
Not all criminals commit the same crimes at the same time that group up together.
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Not all criminals commit the same crimes at the same time that group up together.
Then change their time once they group up.
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Set same RHL time for all criminals who committed a crime together. How is this not obvious?
- RHL Time is pretty random
- How can script detect it has to suspect a whole group at once and for the same time?
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Then change their time once they group up.
So a guy who just robbed someone and a guy who just mass-murdered a group of bystanders in separate incidents deserve the same timer simply because they get in the same car?
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Why not make it the criminals own choice to jump out of the car when he lost his wanted level? It doesnt make any sense that a player has to leave the car when he "escaped" when his friend is suspected in the same car. Friends stick together.
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Why not make it the criminals own choice to jump out of the car when he lost his wanted level? It doesnt make any sense that a player has to leave the car when he "escaped" when his friend is suspected in the same car. Friends stick together.
They aren't currently forced to exit the vehicle as long as they don't do anything to aid the suspected player or participate in the roleplay itself.
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So a guy who just robbed someone and a guy who just mass-murdered a group of bystanders in separate incidents deserve the same timer simply because they get in the same car?
Yes! Both would have the RHL assigned to the mass-murderer
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As Salmonella touches the subject, here is the reverse of the situation.
If you are with a group and a single member becomes suspected, why would he endager all of his mates by remaining with the group? After all by remaining there is a realistic possibility all of them will be jailed or die.
Protecting your family or group is not just about dying for your friends, it is also about protecting your friends from dying or getting caught by drawing away attention.
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Yes! Both would have the RHL assigned to the mass-murderer
Why? That is about as logical as giving normal cops the weapons SWAT and FBI have just because they are all Law Enforcement. It's just not fair.
As Salmonella touches the subject, here is the reverse of the situation.
If you are with a group and a single member becomes suspected, why would he endager all of his mates by remaining with the group? After all by remaining there is a realistic possibility all of them will be jailed or die.
Protecting your family or group is not just about dying for your friends, it is also about protecting your friends from dying or getting caught by drawing away attention.
Agreed, and if they make that decision to help regardless, they know the risk they are running by participating voluntarily.
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They aren't currently forced to exit the vehicle as long as they don't do anything to aid the suspected player or participate in the roleplay itself.
If he is driving the car he is aiding.
So what is kind off being said here, is that if a player in a car with wanted people escapes, he has to exit the car? Thats just retarded if he is the driver and cops are behind them, he has to stop the car, most likely unlock it then exit, waiting for another player in the car to keep on driving, or he can be punished?
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- RHL Time is pretty random
- How can script detect it has to suspect a whole group at once and for the same time?
Actually it would be a possibility. Just like the RHL timer can halt when cops are near, it could be halted when a suspect with longer RHL time is near. That way the RHL would expire at the time the group member with the longest time loses its level for all.
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- RHL Time is pretty random
- How can script detect it has to suspect a whole group at once and for the same time?
There are many ways to script it. They could add support for more ids to /su command, or they could use a script to detect if criminals are staying together for a long amount of time.
So a guy who just robbed someone and a guy who just mass-murdered a group of bystanders in separate incidents deserve the same timer simply because they get in the same car?
If the robber intends to help mass-murderers and stays with them on purpose -- yes.
It is clear that the current problem was caused by script imperfection; this should have been solved before implementation on server.
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The reason I see value in not just throwing away the split posts is exactly that we need to find a solution.
By the basic of how the rules are, when a player is no longer suspected he should jump out of a car (of from the bike) and leave the group. That is hardly doable when you as a group decide to move to the desert to escape.
The reason to discuss is to prevent an endless loop in which those who lost their wanted level successfully re-obtain it and continue the play past end.
The objective of the discussion is to allow a group sticking more or less together, while at the same time having awareness that they are no longer taking part in the run-and-chase scenario.
If we do not get proper suggestions, daily practice will end in admins kicking and punishing players for not leaving the group, which will be a much stronger disturbance of roleplay as stopping your trigger finger.
I've never known about these basic rules, and have therefore been breaking them over the years on a daily basis. Nobody has punished me for it, nobody has told me about it, and nobody has ever complained about this. Stuff was wonderful when nobody enforced these rules, why can't we just remove them again?
What you predict is going to happen, admins punishing players on a daily basis for this. It will be a disturbance, but don't assume that the people who were unsuspected and stick to their suspected friend, will just open fire when they can. When I was in that position I wouldn't even open fire unless they would first attack. If I would be in that position I'd hope we would outrun them before they could resuspect me, but I would never have done this in the past:
The one who escaped should jump out of the car as soon as they have the opportunity to do it : entering a city/town, passing by a state car, being near an airport, etc.
As Salmonella touches the subject, here is the reverse of the situation.
If you are with a group and a single member becomes suspected, why would he endager all of his mates by remaining with the group? After all by remaining there is a realistic possibility all of them will be jailed or die.
Protecting your family or group is not just about dying for your friends, it is also about protecting your friends from dying or getting caught by drawing away attention.
Very good point, and in the past if only one of us would remain suspected, and we would have to do something else at the same time, that might've actually happened. I don't recall. What I do recall is splitting up when cops engaged to increase chances of escaping.
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Remove RHL.
A wanted person would remain wanted until jailed or killed.
You shouldn't escape the mean wrath of police.
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If he is driving the car he is aiding.
So what is kind off being said here, is that if a player in a car with wanted people escapes, he has to exit the car? Thats just retarded if he is the driver and cops are behind them, he has to stop the car, most likely unlock it then exit, waiting for another player in the car to keep on driving, or he can be punished?
However as he has escaped successfully, just as like if he would be dead or jailed he is no longer part of the chase. By making him part again you create a possibility for people to be wanted and killing without end.
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Actually it would be a possibility. Just like the RHL timer can halt when cops are near, it could be halted when a suspect with longer RHL time is near. That way the RHL would expire at the time the group member with the longest time loses its level for all.
Now THAT is a great idea.
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I've never known about these basic rules, and have therefore been breaking them over the years on a daily basis. Nobody has punished me for it, nobody has told me about it, and nobody has ever complained about this. Stuff was wonderful when nobody enforced these rules, why can't we just remove them again?
As with other rules, it does not become enforced until the possibilities become abused by those who intend to bend rules to DM.
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Remove RHL.
A wanted person would remain wanted until jailed or killed.
You shouldn't escape the mean wrath of police.
What about making RHL longer? This is unfair to criminals
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If he is driving the car he is aiding.
So what is kind off being said here, is that if a player in a car with wanted people escapes, he has to exit the car? Thats just retarded if he is the driver and cops are behind them, he has to stop the car, most likely unlock it then exit, waiting for another player in the car to keep on driving, or he can be punished?
If he is driving the car, he has made the voluntary choice to break the rules if he has already left the roleplay. The only three ways he can leave are death, jail, and the RHL timer running out. The first two obviously would require him to purposely aid his friend(s) again. The third would be something of his own situation. He could easily switch seats with his suspected friends, not to mention if he can't continue as a suspect in that roleplay, he could always act as a frightened civilian who just had someone dangerous in his vehicle. Creativity is all that is needed to overcome that situation.
If the robber intends to help mass-murderers and stays with them on purpose -- yes.
How do they know they are a mass-murderer? The example given was friends, groups, mafias, etc. If they intend to commit crimes and aid one another in them, then that only says they know the other is a wanted suspect. It doesn't necessarily mean they automatically know why.
I've never known about these basic rules, and have therefore been breaking them over the years on a daily basis.
Suspects not returning after death has been a written rule in SA:MP since RS4.0 added the RHL system.
Remove RHL.
A wanted person would remain wanted until jailed or killed.
You shouldn't escape the mean wrath of police.
Why remove their ability to get away? Then that discourages them from roleplaying as suspects and escaping at all, thus increasing deathmatching.
What about making RHL longer? This is unfair to criminals
That would be unfair too.
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Suspects not returning after death has been a written rule in SA:MP since RS4.0 added the RHL system.
Of course. Nobody said anything about dying.
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How do they know they are a mass-murderer? The example given was friends, groups, mafias, etc. If they intend to commit crimes and aid one another in them, then that only says they know the other is a wanted suspect. It doesn't necessarily mean they automatically know why.
This is not a RL-RP server, and even if it was, everybody on Argonath would know anything and everything automatically.
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What about making RHL longer? This is unfair to criminals
Why would you want a longer RHL? Your goal is to escape, I don't see the point of having longer RHL :roll:
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Of course. Nobody said anything about dying.
If you can't return after death or jail, why would you be able to after escaping if all three scenarios specifically state the roleplay has ended? I believe the rule was also worded as "suspects may not return to the roleplay", which makes it that much more obvious.
Why would you want a longer RHL? Your goal is to escape, I don't see the point of having longer RHL :roll:
Agreed. That would only demote the situation further. Likewise, making it shorter would encourage cops to deathmatch them back.
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Why would you want a longer RHL? Your goal is to escape, I don't see the point of having longer RHL :roll:
I replied to James because he said something impossible
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Your goal is to escape, I don't see the point of having longer RHL :roll:
Sure, your character would want to escape, but what's wrong in finding joy in a good chase or gunfight? It's part of the Argonath experience, and quite frankly, I don't really have any problems with it.
If you can't return after death or jail, why would you be able to after escaping if all three scenarios specifically state the roleplay has ended? I believe the rule was also worded as "suspects may not return to the roleplay", which makes it that much more obvious.
You can't return after death, that's true. After jail, you're still alive, after escaping, you're still alive. That's the way I see it, and as long as you're still alive, I don't thinks it should be anything buy logical that you can return and help your friends. As long as they're not directly in a gunfight, because then it will be confusing for the cops.
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Remove RHL.
A wanted person would remain wanted until jailed or killed.
You shouldn't escape the mean wrath of police.
Sure, but the suspect isn't show on the radar and /area can't be used to find him.
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Remove RHL.
A wanted person would remain wanted until jailed or killed.
You shouldn't escape the mean wrath of police.
And then people will run around all day long as suspects, problem found.
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You can't return after death, that's true. After jail, you're still alive, after escaping, you're still alive. That's the way I see it, and as long as you're still alive, I don't thinks it should be anything buy logical that you can return and help your friends. As long as they're not directly in a gunfight, because then it will be confusing for the cops.
If you want to talk about realism, you wouldn't be in jail for 30 seconds in real life. You also wouldn't magically lose your warrants when you get far enough away from police. That argument doesn't work here following what you are going by.
Sure, but the suspect isn't show on the radar and /area can't be used to find him.
Then it would still require suspects to wait until they die or are jailed.
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Now THAT is a great idea.
If we are to solve it by scripting, it seems the most feasible.
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And then people will run around all day long as suspects, problem found.
There are many people who already run around all day as suspects, using every possibility there is to get suspected. That problem was there from day 1.
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There are many people who already run around all day as suspects, using every possibility there is to get suspected. That problem was there from day 1.
Well I didn't want to be too mean and point out our top roleplayer oranges, but you have a point.
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If we are to solve it by scripting, it seems the most feasible.
What will be the area of effects? Only people in the car?
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If we are to solve it by scripting, it seems the most feasible.
The issue I find with that is, if one person keeps killing cops and other players then the entire group will remain suspected for an unimaginable amount of time as your time to escape increases by at least 20 minutes per kill.
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The issue I find with that is, if one person keeps killing cops and other players then the entire group will remain suspected for an unimaginable amount of time as your time to escape increases by at least 20 minutes per kill.
Agreed. That could become an issue where they all just stand around shooting at incoming cops until someone finally kills them all, one by one.
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If you want to talk about realism, you wouldn't be in jail for 30 seconds in real life. You also wouldn't magically lose your warrants when you get far enough away from police. That argument doesn't work here following what you are going by.
Then it would still require suspects to wait until they die or are jailed.
I think I've explained my perspective on the subject clearly, and more than enough by now. The answers to your questions should all lie in my previous posts. ;)
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I think I've explained my perspective on the subject clearly, and more than enough by now. The answers to your questions should all lie in my previous posts. ;)
As do my responses. Regardless of this, Argo is not a real-life RP server.
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The issue I find with that is, if one person keeps killing cops and other players then the entire group will remain suspected for an unimaginable amount of time as your time to escape increases by at least 20 minutes per kill.
That is no different from the escaped players becoming re-suspected, as long as people see killing others as objective it is hard to eradicate anyway.
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If we are to solve it by scripting, it seems the most feasible.
I believe it would be a great idea to do what you wrote because it would encourage players to actually try to escape instead of group up togheter and kill as many cops as possible.
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You escaped, you leave your friends, period.
Well no, what if they still need my help? Should I have murdered a cop purely to increase my RHL so that I can get my whole group out?
The fact is : If you have lost your suspection level, you can't help them anymore and have to leave the RP.
But that doesn't even make any sense.
1. Evading the cops until the wanted level is dropped is one of the encouraged ways for criminals who do not want to go to jail. It is preferred above fighting until death.
Naturally, the aim is to escape. However, the aim is for everyone to escape, and you work as a group to achieve this.
6. This also means that cops who are chasing should watch if a member is no longer suspected. They can then assume safely he is no longer allowed to take part and they are not allowed to (re)suspect.
But that is flawed in theory because it would mean that if there was a group of criminals with (for example) 25 minutes RHL, but one of them had only 5 left, he would actually have to try and increase his RHL for the good of the group, which is just silly.
Basically, this:
What it does encourage however, is deathmatch and other ways to keep the /rhl high, people trying to kill or get killed instead of escaping, frustration amongst criminal roleplayers and any other ways to try and evade this crazy system where you are no longer allowed to play with your friends if they are orange and you are not.
When RHL was added, it gave criminals a way to escape instead of running around the map until they were jailed or died. As a result, they were removed from the ability to return after their RP ended so they wouldn't gain a massive advantage over police.
This simply wasn't true "since RHL was added". I could get pretty mad and pick on the absurdity of the very last part of this quote but I've done it a thousand times before so I won't here.
A lot of concern comes from those situations where criminals would just fight in a group on foot forever, and keep getting resuspected.
The thing is that in those situations if the cops know what they're doing your RHL timer isn't even counting down, so those situations are irrelevant to this discussion. What we're talking are actual group escapes in one or more vehicles with multiple suspects (with varying RHLs) involved.
By making the passenger leave if he gets unsuspected, you are hugely gimping the (still suspected) driver who has now lost his driveby defense. That just doesn't make any sense.
If you are with a group and a single member becomes suspected, why would he endager all of his mates by remaining with the group? After all by remaining there is a realistic possibility all of them will be jailed or die.
In that situation, it's really up to the suspect and his group whether he goes it alone or they risk themselves to increase his chances of survival.
In summary:
Why not make it the criminals own choice to jump out of the car when he lost his wanted level? It doesnt make any sense that a player has to leave the car when he "escaped" when his friend is suspected in the same car. Friends stick together.
This.
To Gandalf, my solution is this:
We should just leave it how it's always been, that suspects who run out their RHL but remain with active suspects are liable to be resuspected for aiding. Suspects in fight situations won't even run their RHL down anyway, and suspects in a group escape that run out their RHL can either dive out of the car and get away, or stay and risk themselves further to increase the group's overall chance of success in escaping together. That adds a level of control and choice to the situation, and makes it simpler for pursuing law enforcement to understand what they must do.
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I believe it would be a great idea to do what you wrote because it would encourage players to actually try to escape instead of group up togheter and kill as many cops as possible.
How would it force them to escape? Those who wants to escape can already do it.
And if you implement this, then people who are here to deathmatch around wouldn't even have to get at least one kill to get a higher RHL, since it'll be sync to others RHL.
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That is no different from the escaped players becoming re-suspected, as long as people see killing others as objective it is hard to eradicate anyway.
Then the script itself won't stop that anyway. Heavy focus should be put on handling the problem at it's core through admins watching over such scenarios and teaching users not to do it, (more than usual).
Many users also used groups as an example. If groups are constantly breaking this rule, they should probably be punished and have their users taught how to properly roleplay the scenario, since group leaders are often the prime example singled-out players and group members look up to.
Likewise, if single players continue to repeat the issue after previously being told not to, their punishments should increase. People will always try to find ways around the rules, (as I believe you have said before too), but if we tackle them head-on, they eventually give up. :)
Basically, this:
<Insert Salmonella's quote here>
<Insert SugarD's quote here>
This simply wasn't true "since RHL was added". I could get pretty mad and pick on the absurdity of the very last part of this quote but I've done it a thousand times before so I won't here.
Actually, yes it was. The only thing that has changed in that rule since RHL was added was if cops could return or not, which was an experiment done a couple times by CBFasi to see how fair the system was in each scenario. There may have been short periods between these experiments where the rule was not enforced, but it has always been there regardless.
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How about if me and my friend were driving a car suspected , I were the driver , My rhl is over , So i'll just jump out of the car and let him get caugh because he's the not the one driving , He can't even take a step out and get into the driver seat before he dies , It's unfair, Seriously.
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How about if me and my friend were driving a car suspected , I were the driver , My rhl is over , So i'll just jump out of the car and let him get caugh because he's the not the one driving , He can't even take a step out and get into the driver seat before he dies , It's unfair, Seriously.
You could always stop the car and run, or pull over and switch seats.
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You could always stop the car and run, or pull over and switch seats.
or give up :D
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or give up :D
He said his RHL had ended. If you meant to say that for the passenger, that would work, yes. It would be a better scenario for his friend to spend the night in jail than die on the streets anyway. :P
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You could always stop the car and run, or pull over and switch seats.
What if there isn't time?
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What if there isn't time?
Then face death.. You took the risk to evade, you need to assume the consequences it can have.
But people always want all the advantages without the inconvenience..
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What if there isn't time?
Knowing the risks involved for both of them after voluntarily committing a crime, the driver can still easy stop the car and get out. If he is not suspected anymore, that would fall under his own creativity to handle the situation properly.
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Your saying this because you never tried it , I dont like to spend one minute in jail , And we dont even have time to switch seats when half of the cops are chasing us , We'll surely die or spend it in jail , Not fair .
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Your saying this because you never tried it , I dont like to spend one minute in jail , And we dont even have time to switch seats when half of the cops are chasing us , We'll surely die or spend it in jail , Not fair .
If you don't like it, don't break the law.
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Then face death.. You took the risk to evade, you need to assume the consequences it can have.
But people always want all the advantages without the inconvenience..
I'm sorry, but you're not even offering solutions, you're just being totally unreasonable to suspects. You have to look at any given situation from both sides, not just from the police side.
Heck, even I do that.
If you don't like it, don't break the law.
See above, same to you.
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If you don't like it, don't break the law.
He is roleplaying a criminal
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I'm sorry, but you're not even offering solutions, you're just being totally unreasonable to suspects. You have to look at any given situation from both sides, not just from the police side.
Heck, even I do that.
See above, same to you.
Contrary to what you believe, I am looking at it from both sides. You are not forced to get suspected. You do it on your own knowing the risks. That is not speaking as a cop, that is speaking as a human being. Likewise, I already defended suspects a couple pages back when someone suggested to remove RHL so suspects have no way of escaping at all. The only one here that is picking sides is you. We are all trying to reply in a manner with suggestions that makes everyone happy.
He is roleplaying a criminal
Then he shouldn't allow himself to get caught and be suspected.
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He is roleplaying a criminal
Then he is a "bad criminal", because if you are suspected, it means you failed somewhere.
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This surely doesnt make us happy.
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You are not forced to get suspected. You do it on your own knowing the risks.
Well yea, but one of the risks should not be that your driver runs out his RHL and then a completely illogical new rule makes you all die for no reason.
We are all trying to reply in a manner with suggestions that makes everyone happy.
Well I haven't seen any from you with regards to Drawn's scenario specifically. You basically said in response to his post "Well, fuck the suspects because they're suspects".
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Then he is a "bad criminal", because if you are suspected, it means you failed somewhere.
He failed if he died or got jailed, he can evade from the police
Then he shouldn't allow himself to get caught and be suspected.
What if he didn't want to but cops busted him?
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However as he has escaped successfully, just as like if he would be dead or jailed he is no longer part of the chase. By making him part again you create a possibility for people to be wanted and killing without end.
Not to make it a cop vs criminal thread, but that is the cops problem. If suspects keep on killing cops, cops should admit the "lost the fight". When the cops give up, criminals has nothing else to do than wait for the RHL to run out. And as I guess someone will say that if that happens suspects will chase cops, thats where the admins and the cophunting/baiting rules come in.
If he is driving the car, he has made the voluntary choice to break the rules if he has already left the roleplay. The only three ways he can leave are death, jail, and the RHL timer running out. The first two obviously would require him to purposely aid his friend(s) again. The third would be something of his own situation. He could easily switch seats with his suspected friends, not to mention if he can't continue as a suspect in that roleplay, he could always act as a frightened civilian who just had someone dangerous in his vehicle. Creativity is all that is needed to overcome that situation.
He never made a voluntary choice to break rules? That is just utterly stupid. As far as I see it this rule kind of forces players to rulebreak. I have played on Argo since 2009/2010 and I've never seen someone getting punished for this kind of thing. And he cant "easily switch seats with his suspected friends", because this would make the cops catch up, will be more shooting and DM fests, and his friends will get caught.
To Gandalf, my solution is this:
We should just leave it how it's always been, that suspects who run out their RHL but remain with active suspects are liable to be resuspected for aiding. Suspects in fight situations won't even run their RHL down anyway, and suspects in a group escape that run out their RHL can either dive out of the car and get away, or stay and risk themselves further to increase the group's overall chance of success in escaping together. That adds a level of control and choice to the situation, and makes it simpler for pursuing law enforcement to understand what they must do.
This makes the most sense.
People has to look at this case from both the criminals and cop sides, which I do. Most of the people here only seems to focus on one of the sides, mostly cops.
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This surely doesnt make us happy.
Then suggest an idea that isn't one-sided. That is the point of this entire discussion.
Well yea, but one of the risks should not be that your driver runs out his RHL and then a completely illogical new rule makes you all die for no reason.
Well I haven't seen any from you with regards to Drawn's scenario specifically. You basically said in response to his post "Well, f**k the suspects because they're suspects".
1. This "completely illogical new rule" has been around for more than 4 years.
2. Yes. They made the choice knowing the outcome, they got caught. Simple as that.
Cops make the same choice when going after suspects. They know they can die, but they voluntarily chose to go after them anyway. Firefighters are the same thing. They can catch on fire and lose their lives. They make the choice to fight the fires anyway. Your choices hold the consequences associated with them. If you don't want the risk of dying or being jailed, don't break the law, or at minimum, don't get caught doing it.
Not to make it a cop vs criminal thread, but that is the cops problem. If suspects keep on killing cops, cops should admit the "lost the fight". When the cops give up, criminals has nothing else to do than wait for the RHL to run out. And as I guess someone will say that if that happens suspects will chase cops, thats where the admins and the cophunting/baiting rules come in.
He never made a voluntary choice to break rules? That is just utterly stupid. As far as I see it this rule kind of forces players to rulebreak. I have played on Argo since 2009/2010 and I've never seen someone getting punished for this kind of thing. And he cant "easily switch seats with his suspected friends", because this would make the cops catch up, will be more shooting and DM fests, and his friends will get caught.
This makes the most sense.
People has to look at this case from both the criminals and cop sides, which I do. Most of the people here only seems to focus on one of the sides, mostly cops.
1. Police are obligated to fight crime when on duty. That is their job. They won't just "give up".
2. If he decides to stay and aid his friend after his timer ends, then yes, he is voluntarily breaking the rules. If he got suspected with his friend previously to being chased by police, he voluntarily took on the risks of being killed or caught.
3. That was the old system. It worked fine until people took advantage of it to cause massive, never-ending shootouts. If player attitude was different, we could easily go back to that system.
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How would it force them to escape?
Not forcing, encouraging - 2 completly different things.
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You cannot punish half of Argonath just because some people are trieng to make a non ending shootouts , And we dont want cops to give up .
We just dont want to leave our friends in the middle of the chase when fifty cops are chasing you , Imagine if you got three people in ur car , You run out of RHL , you jump and let them all die or spend it in jail , They wont love you for that , Will they ?
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Not forcing, encouraging - 2 completly different things.
Ok remplace forcing with encouraging and answer the 2nd part of the question :D
"And if you implement this, then people who are here to deathmatch around wouldn't even have to get at least one kill to get a higher RHL, since it'll be sync to others RHL."
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You cannot punish half of Argonath just because some people are trieng to make a non ending shootouts
Actually yes, yes we can. This is not a deathmatch server. If you want never-ending shootouts, go to Paruni.
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1. This "completely illogical new rule" has been around for more than 4 years.
Well, it hasn't. Either that or they forgot to tell anyone about it, including admins.
2. Yes. They made the choice knowing the outcome, they got caught. Simple as that.
But they didn't get caught. One of them arbitrarily ran out his RHL.
2. If he decides to stay and aid his friend after his timer ends, then yes, he is voluntarily breaking the rules.
You can say what you want but that isn't the rule unless it's to be added now.
3. That was the old system. It worked fine until people took advantage of it to cause massive, never-ending shootouts. If player attitude was different, we could easily go back to that system.
Frankly, I don't even see the problem with those situations. But that aside, those situations stop suspects escaping through RHL anyway due to cop proximity, so they're not even related to this discussion as far as I'm concerned.
You cannot punish half of Argonath just because some people are trieng to make a non ending shootouts
Actually yes, yes we can. This is not a deathmatch server. If you want never-ending shootouts, go to Paruni.
Then we can punish all cops for abusing their suspect command. If you want to attack random people for money go to Paruni.
See what I did there?
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Did you even read my post ? I said that you cannot punish everyone because some people want a non ending shootous , i DONT want a non ending shootout , You got this wrong , My friend.
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"And if you implement this, then people who are here to deathmatch around wouldn't even have to get at least one kill to get a higher RHL, since it'll be sync to others RHL."
Sorry, i'm not gonna go into details why i believe it's a good solution since if (and a big IF) this would be done, it would be in RS5 and i dont want to spoil too much yet.
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It's never been enforced ingame from what I've seen.
But they didn't get caught. One of them arbitrarily ran out his RHL.
You can say what you want but that isn't the rule unless it's to be added now.
Frankly, I don't even see the problem with those situations. But that aside, those situations stop suspects escaping through RHL anyway due to cop proximity, so they're not even related to this discussion as far as I'm concerned.
Actually yes, yes we can. This is not a deathmatch server. If you want never-ending shootouts, go to Paruni.
Then we can punish all cops for abusing their suspect command. If you want to attack random people for money go to Paruni.
See what I did there?
1. That does not mean it hasn't existed.
2. Then he is no longer a suspect and shouldn't act like one.
3. Returning to the roleplay has always been disallowed. It is not a new rule.
4. This is not Paruni. Never-ending shootouts are by no means roleplay. We aren't trying to create an artificial warzone so people can get their CnR fix.
5. If they are falsely suspecting someone, yes, they should be punished. If the suspection is valid, your argument is not logical to the situation at all.
See what I did there?
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1. Police are obligated to fight crime when on duty. That is their job. They won't just "give up".
2. If he decides to stay and aid his friend after his timer ends, then yes, he is voluntarily breaking the rules. If he got suspected with his friend previously to being chased by police, he voluntarily took on the risks of being killed or caught.
3. That was the old system. It worked fine until people took advantage of it to cause massive, never-ending shootouts. If player attitude was different, we could easily go back to that system.
1. They are forced to give up when they cant take down the criminality. Back in the old days you had skilled cop groups to take down big criminals groups.
2. No he is not, thats just a retarded rule.
3. It has always worked, and I bet it still works, its just the way cops try to win over criminals that is stupid, they are doing it in stupid ways, if they started using their brains while planning to take down criminals, it would make everything much easier :) And when cops start to use their common sense, which criminals learned a long time ago, the never-ending shootouts will stop.
3. Returning to the roleplay has always been disallowed. It is not a new rule.
See what I did there?
You are still the same RP person if you escape the cops, like it has ALWAYS been before is that if you DIE and return to RP you break the rule, not if you escape.
And yeah, I see what you did there
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Sugar , So if cops abuse /su you punish them , Cops doesnt abuse you dont .
Let's do this then : Suspects wants to make a non-ending shootout , Punish them , Others don't , Easy , Isn't it ?
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Can someone make a TL;DR of this topic?
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5. If they are falsely suspecting someone, yes, they should be punished. If the suspection is valid, your argument is not logical to the situation at all.
See what I did there?
I was trying to point out your not reading Drawn's post correctly, but you seem to have missed it again.
He was saying that you shouldn't punish the whole for the actions of the few.
This:
Sugar , So if cops abuse /su you punish them , Cops doesnt abuse you dont .
Let's do this then : Suspects wants to make a non-ending shootout , Punish them , Others don't , Easy , Isn't it ?
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1. They are forced to give up when they cant take down the criminality. Back in the old days you had skilled cop groups to take down big criminals groups.
2. No he is not, thats just a retarded rule.
3. It has always worked, and I bet it still works, its just the way cops try to win over criminals that is stupid, they are doing it in stupid ways, if they started using their brains while planning to take down criminals, it would make everything much easier :) And when cops start to use their common sense, which criminals learned a long time ago, the never-ending shootouts will stop.
You are still the same RP person if you escape the cops, like it has ALWAYS been before is that if you DIE and return to RP you break the rule, not if you escape.
And yeah, I see what you did there
1. Really? In what country do they do that? Backing off to protect life and giving up are not the same thing.
2. Yes he is, and that is unfortunate that you feel that way, but it doesn't change the fact that the rule exists.
3. So it's stupid that police are trying to protect people and bring criminals to justice who break the law? Alright. That's about as logical as saying that we have laws, but you're not required to follow them.
4. Not according to the rules, you aren't.
Sugar , So if cops abuse /su you punish them , Cops doesnt abuse you dont .
Let's do this then : Suspects wants to make a non-ending shootout , Punish them , Others don't , Easy , Isn't it ?
Yes. They aren't trying to roleplay, they are trying to DM. Why would they get suspected just to be in a shootout?
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Are you serious right now ? I'v told you , If they try to make a non-ending shootout , Punish them , Otherwise don't.
You have been misunderstanding half of my posts here.
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Are you serious right now ? I'v told you , If they try to make a non-ending shootout , Punish them , Otherwise don't.
You have been misunderstanding half of my posts here.
Then you should not word your posts to say that it is okay to do those things.
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How long it will take for admin team to realise that every problem is caused by freecops and ARPD rules?
It would be good if you reply to this nicely and not like "lol wtf u dont get point of this topic hueheu"
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How long it will take for admin team to realise that every problem is caused by freecops and ARPD rules?
A very long time since that is not the problem at all.
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A very long time since that is not the problem at all.
It is.
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It is.
If Freecops and ARPD were the entire problem, we would not be having this conversation. The problem lies within players themselves, not the roleplay groups or scripted jobs.
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Yes. They aren't trying to roleplay, they are trying to DM. Why would they get suspected just to be in a shootout?
I'm going to tear my hair out man. Jesus, come on. Read his post again.
Can someone make a TL;DR of this topic?
Discussion of whether suspects who run out their RHL should be able to stay with a party of suspects to assist in their escape.
Some people are posting that they want it made so that you are forced to instantly abandon them even if you're, say, driving them in a car (thus leaving them to die).
Other people attempt to point out how completely unreasonable and illogical that is.
These people are currently failing to get other side to understand basic points.
Will continue attempts.
Then you should not word your posts to say that it is okay to do those things.
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee76/WildCatZA/anime_facepalm_small.jpg)
Can you like.. not understand his english or something..? It's fine for me.
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Sugar , You again missed my post , If someone wants a non-ending shootout , Punish him , But for the other people don't , It's easy as that.
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1. Really? In what country do they do that? Backing off to protect life and giving up are not the same thing.
2. Yes he is, and that is unfortunate that you feel that way, but it doesn't change the fact that the rule exists.
3. So it's stupid that police are trying to protect people and bring criminals to justice who break the law? Alright. That's about as logical as saying that we have laws, but you're not required to follow them.
4. Not according to the rules, you aren't.
Yes. They aren't trying to roleplay, they are trying to DM. Why would they get suspected just to be in a shootout?
1. I never said they did it in any country since this is not a RLRP server, I thought you knew that? Backing off would save lifes, cops lifes. The criminals doesnt kill civilians.
2. A rule that you claim has existed, but that has never been taken action against, makes sense.
3. I never said its stupid that they force the laws, I said that the way they TRY to do it is stupid. Look back in the old days when you had SWAT with Oliver Daniels and those guys, thats a team that worked out for a quite a while, untill criminals became better than them. After that, SRU came, a team which I f**king hated when I was a criminal. But guess why I hated them? Because they were better than me, they knew what I did to stay alive and be better than the cops, and they were better than me. I later on joined SRU and saw how they worked and it was an excellent jobs they did and I loved it. Wanna know why I loved it? Because we always won. Why did criminals HATE us? Because they always lost. (Not always, but 99% of the times they did).
4. I did, you just cant look at a case from several sides.
If you wanna reply to a post, read the whole post and dont try to change the subject all the time.
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Sugar , You again missed my post , If someone wants a non-ending shootout , Punish him , But for the other people don't , It's easy as that.
As I said, I understand you. It was not what you had said earlier.
I'm going to tear my hair out man. Jesus, come on. Read his post again.
What he and others said was fairly clear.
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A very long time since that is not the problem at all.
It is.
^
Let me tell you, today me and my friends got suspected, since it was long distance shootout and one cop was near us we tried to kidnap him. FBI Agent was about to RP but then, a freecop came there and started shooting and ruined everything. Thats what I'm talking about, they're causing DM on this server
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The criminals doesnt kill civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer)
^
Let me tell you, today me and my friends got suspected, since it was long distance shootout and one cop was near us we tried to kidnap him. FBI Agent was about to RP but then, a freecop came there and started shooting and ruined everything. Thats what I'm talking about, they're causing DM on this server
You just generalized an entire group over a single user. That is called stereotyping.
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Someone asked for a TL;DR?
TL;DR: A rule which has apparently existed for over 4 years (I still am not sure) that has been forgotten about by everyone whom it involves, including the admins, now makes a return thanks to the people who don't just play by the rules, but moreover for the rules, if at all.
Panda gave the perfect solution:
We should just leave it how it's always been, that suspects who run out their RHL but remain with active suspects are liable to be resuspected for aiding. Suspects in fight situations won't even run their RHL down anyway, and suspects in a group escape that run out their RHL can either dive out of the car and get away, or stay and risk themselves further to increase the group's overall chance of success in escaping together. That adds a level of control and choice to the situation, and makes it simpler for pursuing law enforcement to understand what they must do.
How it has always been, indeed.
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How long it will take for admin team to realise that every problem is caused by freecops and ARPD rules?
It would be good if you reply to this nicely and not like "lol wtf u dont get point of this topic hueheu"
How long will it take for you to realize we are just players with a couple extra commands which were given to us as we were trusted to take care of things within the server?
Not every problem is caused by cops and their rules, please don't come with that nonsense to try point the blame on a specific group of players.
I'm rather bored of people coming along trying to slate the administration team for no reason what so ever.
If you have a problem with how administration members work, you know where to report them.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer)
THIS IS NOT IRL, THIS IS A GAME. IF THEY KILLED CIVILIANS THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN PUNISHEDM, LEARN THE FUCKING DIFFERENCES, I AM STARTING TO GIVE UP ALL HOPE ON YOU AS A PERSON
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As I said, I understand you. It was not what you had said earlier.
You cannot punish half of Argonath just because some people are trieng to make a non ending shootouts
Actually yes, yes we can.
It doesn't seem that way.
Anyway, you get it now, so it doesn't matter.
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Sugar , If you do really understand me as you earlier said , Why you'r not able to understand that what's going on isn't fair for us , Punish the ones that are trieng to make a non-ending shootouts , And let the others free, It's so easy.
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You just generalized an entire group over a single user. That is called stereotyping.
Ye man, wonder WHY he generalizes a whole group, and let me tell you a fact, it's not just one person.
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Please don't turn this into a generic cop v crim topic, good lord.
This topic is about either reiterating or changing the rule on the status of RHL-escaped suspects.
Here is my solution:
To Gandalf, my solution is this:
We should just leave it how it's always been, that suspects who run out their RHL but remain with active suspects are liable to be resuspected for aiding. Suspects in fight situations won't even run their RHL down anyway, and suspects in a group escape that run out their RHL can either dive out of the car and get away, or stay and risk themselves further to increase the group's overall chance of success in escaping together. That adds a level of control and choice to the situation, and makes it simpler for pursuing law enforcement to understand what they must do.
The scripted solution about shared RHLs also has merit.
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suspects who run out their RHL but remain with active suspects are liable to be resuspected for aiding
Agreed.
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Please don't turn this into a generic cop v crim topic, good lord.
This topic is about either reiterating or changing the rule on the status of RHL-escaped suspects.
Here is my solution:
The scripted solution about shared RHLs also has merit.
That is not a solution but a continuation of an undesired situation.
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THIS IS NOT IRL, THIS IS A GAME. IF THEY KILLED CIVILIANS THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN PUNISHEDM, LEARN THE f**kING DIFFERENCES, I AM STARTING TO GIVE UP ALL HOPE ON YOU AS A PERSON
That depends on whether it was deathmatching, or murder with a RP reason. I know you're aware of this.
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Sugar , If you do really understand me as you earlier said , Why you'r not able to understand that what's going on isn't fair for us , Punish the ones that are trieng to make a non-ending shootouts , And let the others free, It's so easy.
Exactly what we do by enforcing this. Those not interested in endless suspected level would leave already anyway.
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1) "changing seats" you said ? What about the hunter/hydra all those HSP units chasing you on a single sultan ? Even a PD premier is faster than it ? Now, please tell me how am I supposed to change seats for gods's sake.
2) "jump out of the car" ? Who cares its a desert ? ARDP my friend, ARPD itself. We can test it anytime, they will /su you the moment they catch you. ARPD even sues for "aiding" while no criminal was around, you only rammed the officer's bike.
3) "Script RHL and make it same for everyone" ? What about those ballas there in GS9 sticking together ?
I actually support the idea to leave the script as it is. Indeed you escaped, but was the RP about escaping ? What if a bank robbery happened, if you have the money, tell me would you jump out of the car ?
I'm saying it again.ARDP my friend, ARPD itself. We can test it anytime, they will /su you the moment they catch you.
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1) "changing seats" you said ? What about the hunter/hydra all those HSP units chasing you on a single sultan ? Even a PD premier is faster than it ? Now, please tell me how am I supposed to change seats for gods's sake.
Irrelevant as it does not sound like you have been escaping if you got them on your tail.
2) "jump out of the car" ? Who cares its a desert ? ARDP my friend, ARPD itself. We can test it anytime, they will /su you the moment they catch you. ARPD even sues for "aiding" while no criminal was around, you only rammed the officer's bike.
Admins my friend, admins can cancelsuspect and punish ARPD any time.
I actually support the idea to leave the script as it is. Indeed you escaped, but was the RP about escaping ? What if a bank robbery happened, if you have the money, tell me would you jump out of the car ?
I'm saying it again.
The script is not changed, simple enforced to how it is intended.
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That depends on whether it was deathmatching, or murder with a RP reason. I know you're aware of this.
We are talking about cops and criminals, not criminals and civilians, are you still not aware of this after 10 pages?
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That is not a solution but a continuation of an undesired situation.
Well situations as these are sensitive because no matter how much we don't want a cops vs criminals situation one side will feel like It's not fair.
Regarding the RHL's... reading both "sides" of the topic... both are understandable, on one side criminals don't wish to leave their friends alone to waves and waves of police officers, while the other doesn't want a never ending chase/shootout, and It's ok.
My solution to this, which has many flawls, but IT IS something, after a RP that gets a group suspected is to gather all suspects in one car, and non suspects in another car, this way, non suspects get away, and suspects can evade more a less at the same time (as they were probably suspected at the same moment), hence not having the necessity of leaving their comrades behind.
That is what I usually organize my group members to do, to avoid situations like these.
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We are talking about cops and criminals, not criminals and civilians, are you still not aware of this after 10 pages?
You are again confusing criminals with suspects.
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You are again confusing criminals with suspects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime) ("Criminal" redirects here.)
Suspect - In the law enforcement jargon, a suspect is a known person suspected of committing a crime
Crime - Crime is the breaking of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction.
See what I did there?
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That is not a solution but a continuation of an undesired situation.
It doesn't have to be undesired. According to you, the problem is suspects going on 'endless' killing sprees against cops, right? Far from everyone does this, and for the people that do, there's the administration. It's easy to spectate the guy and check if roleplay is involved or if he's just shooting as soon as he sees cops. That's how I've done it for three years, and that's how I've taught newer admins to do it over the same period of time.
How you described the rules earlier will only cause for an even more undesired situation. I really believe it will encourage and discourage those things I named earlier, and aren't those the same problems we're facing in the first place? Yes, just amplified and emphasized.
The problem doesn't lie with the system and solution Panda described, it lies with a few players.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime) ("Criminal" redirects here.)
Suspect - In the law enforcement jargon, a suspect is a known person suspected of committing a crime
Crime - Crime is the breaking of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction.
See what I did there?
By definition, a suspect is someone who is accused of a crime, but has not necessarily been deemed guilty or innocent.
By definition, a criminal is someone who seeks a career in crime.
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By definition, a criminal is someone who seeks a career in crime.
Not necessarily, no. It's someone who's committed a crime, not necessarily seeking a career in crime.
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For those who do not want to read back 11 pages...
Interesting how the largest amount of input is from players who are inactive or banned and there for reason from a situation of 6 months and more ago.
Current criminals blame it on everyone but them.
And apart from TonyBlaze nobody seems interested in bringing up a solution apart from leaving it as it was.
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That is not a solution but a continuation of an undesired situation.
In what way specifically is the situation undesired? It seemed to work for ~5 years quite well, and only now has anyone raised it as an issue.
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In what way specifically is the situation undesired? It seemed to work for ~5 years quite well, and only now has anyone raised it as an issue.
3 of those 5 years were spent with people moaning on both sides over advantages and disadvantages.
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3 of those 5 years were spent with people moaning on both sides over advantages and disadvantages.
That's criminals and cops, not suspects and cops as this topic is about.
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Interesting how the largest amount of input is from players who are inactive or banned and there for reason from a situation of 6 months and more ago.
Goes to show who your true friends are in this community, Gandalf! :D
3 of those 5 years were spent with people moaning on both sides over advantages and disadvantages.
Moaning has always existed.
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That's criminals and cops, not suspects and cops as this topic is about.
Wrong, actually. People who roleplay career criminals were also in many of those complaint topics created over the years. Many of them were in mafias and gangs, too.
Moaning has always existed.
Not on the levels it exists today.
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By definition, a suspect is someone who is accused of a crime, but has not necessarily been deemed guilty or innocent.
By definition, a criminal is someone who seeks a career in crime.
Wikipedia states otherwise
For those who do not want to read back 11 pages...
Interesting how the largest amount of input is from players who are inactive or banned and there for reason from a situation of 6 months and more ago.
I feel hit.
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The fact is : If you have lost your suspection level, you can't help them anymore and have to leave the RP.
yeah but the thing is that what you just said isn't even a rule, so.
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Wikipedia states otherwiseI feel hit.
1. Your definition of a suspect matches exactly what I said in different wording.
2. Your definition of a criminal was taken from "crime" via a redirect. It is not the definition of a criminal itself.
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Not on the levels it exists today.
:lol:
Yeah, okay man. ;)
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Not on the levels it exists today.
Yea... :roll:
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:lol:
Yeah, okay man. ;)
You of all people know exactly what I mean. You were around in MTA:VC and SA:MP's early days.
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You were around in MTA:VC and SA:MP's early days.
That's true, I really don't have anything else to say to stuff like that than I did in my previous reply. ;)
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Since when has this even been a problem? Whenever I've been a driver in a car full of suspects, and my RHL runs out, I just got resuspected if I chose to stay in the car.
I don't really understand the issue here.
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You of all people know exactly what I mean. You were around in MTA:VC and SA:MP's early days.
Perhaps the reason behind that is it wasn't as many players in 2007 as it is now, correct me if I'm wrong.
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You of all people know exactly what I mean. You were around in MTA:VC and SA:MP's early days.
Are you seriously suggesting that the debate between criminals and cops reached its peak right now, and not in, say, 2008-9? Because that's just not true.
Since when has this even been a problem? Whenever I've been a driver in a car full of suspects, and my RHL runs out, I just got resuspected if I chose to stay in the car.
I don't really understand the issue here.
Yea, I'd like to pose this to Gandalf. What is the issue here, specifically?
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Perhaps the reason behind that is it wasn't as many players in 2007 as it is now, correct me if I'm wrong.
When I say the amount of moaning, I'm not referring to the number of players. I'm referring the magnitude. Even some of the same players from those days exhibit much more of it than they used to.
Are you seriously suggesting that the debate between criminals and cops reached its peak right now, and not in, say, 2008-9? Because that's just not true.
That was in reference to the moaning in general, not that specific debate.
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When I say the amount of moaning, I'm not referring to the number of players. I'm referring the magnitude. Even some of the same players from those days exhibit much more of it than they used to.
I see what you did there
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That was in reference to the moaning in general, not that specific debate.
The same goes for moaning in general. There used to be a lot more of it than there is now. Saying that's not the case equals having a bad memory or not wanting to face the truth.
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yeah but the thing is that what you just said isn't even a rule, so.
Maxy? OMG Are you still alive. :banana:
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Must have broken out of Pandas basement finally. :eek:
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yeah but the thing is that what you just said isn't even a rule, so.
If I said it, there were a reason. ;)
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If I said it, there were a reason. ;)
Were there, now?
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If I said it, there were a reason. ;)
I don't subscribe to that logic.
Maxy? OMG Are you still alive. :banana:
Oh come on Gandalf, you know I crawl out of the woodwork every time there is an argument about criminals. :P
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Are you seriously suggesting that the debate between criminals and cops reached its peak right now, and not in, say, 2008-9? Because that's just not true.
Yea, I'd like to pose this to Gandalf. What is the issue here, specifically?
The issue is simple. We offer suspect a way to lose their wanted level.
As you may remember our original solution was /confess, which led to cops camping outside every church. :pop:
After it was removed, the only way out was to die or be jailed, and criminals rightfully complained against that, as they had no solution without losing something (money or weapons).
CBFASI created the RHL solution where based on your crime it was possible to escape, and with every crime you did this would take a longer time.
So far no issue at all.
Over time things change as players try to find new ways to remain in a shootout. One currently popular method seems to be to remain as group in a car, regularly attracting the attention of cops. This means that as not all are involved in killing, some will have their wanted level lost.
Cops are not allowed to resuspect someone to increase the RHL. This means that unless the 'helper' kills a cop, he can not be resuspected and would if killed cause a fine. Allowing to resuspect would also defeat the purpose of losing the wanted level, we might remove the whole RHL as well.
This means we have to consider what the RHL actually is.
Like being jailed or dying, the RHL means and 'end of chase', and there for should be treated as such. When you manage to lose your wanted level as suspect, you have succeeded in running long enough and should no longer be chased.
And there is the catch...if you are in a group and the RHL is not equal, in theory you should leave the group just as if you were arrested or would die, leaving the others to be chased.
Now that would be very simple for admins to enforce. All that needs is one on cop duty who whenever he sees someone losing their wanted level spectates and ensures the player is removed from the group, by force if needed.
This might be our order for admins to do if we do not get presented a better solution. To find a better solution, that does not include re-suspecting as that is forbidden, this topic is created.
Unless you come up with something better, the guideline for admins as described above might come in to effect. And you would have yourselves to blame for it by not presenting alternatives.
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It's ridiculously hilarious how Argonath always chanted the plethora "We do not want to have jungle of rules", but by the end of the day there are always 2-3 additions to any rule there is.
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It's ridiculously hilarious how Argonath always chanted the plethora "We do not want to have jungle of rules", but by the end of the day there are always 2-3 additions to any rule there is.
That's false.. If there were every day always 2-3 additions, then we would have over 9000 rules :D
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It's ridiculously hilarious how Argonath always chanted the plethora "We do not want to have jungle of rules", but by the end of the day there are always 2-3 additions to any rule there is.
About as ridiculous as players trying to find loopholes to bend the rules in to their version of the truth.
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That's false.. If there were every day always 2-3 additions, then we would have over 9000 rules :D
'In the end of the day' doesn't mean 'every day'. It means 'at long last', or 'finale' in French. ;)
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'In the end of the day' doesn't mean 'every day'. It means 'at long last', or 'finale' in French. ;)
I see, but actually is not "new rules", it's just adaptation of current rules to what players are doing.
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Unless you come up with something better, the guideline for admins as described above might come in to effect. And you would have yourselves to blame for it by not presenting alternatives.
Well, what about the script RHL sharing idea? Could that be expanded upon?
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The real problem here is that people do not have enough interesting things to do, so they pick fights with cops all day, resulting in what you guys call "never-ending shootouts". An average player can collect a substantial amount of money and weaponry within one or two months, and then he gets bored of doing everything by the book. A good solution could be giving them other stuff to focus on and introducing higher penalties for dying as suspect and higher prices of weaponry instead of introducing a new set of confusing rules.
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Well, what about the script RHL sharing idea? Could that be expanded upon?
If the initial idea and way we've been doing it forever can't be, then I agree, this comes closest to it.
How would it work, though? Being in the same car? Pop-up boxes asking you wheter or not you want to share your /rhl with them? A script where you'd have to plan everything ahead?
Being in the same car would restrict it to 4 people, and form a problem for us bikers.
What if they later decide to split up?
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About as ridiculous as players trying to find loopholes to bend the rules in to their version of the truth.
That is why your utopic plethora will never find its way. It's sacrifice of the either.
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About as ridiculous as players trying to find loopholes to bend the rules in to their version of the truth.
Best sentence 2013
Anyway, I suppose that the problem with the RHL is well... the TIME really.
So, what can we do to fix that situation? Well, remove the time?
Just like the old western outlaws, when the law was broken, "Yeehaw" to Mexico, right? They crossed the border and they were free men.
Maybe changing the RHL method to either have the criminal run away to a random checkpoint on the map, very very far away from their location. Whether it is to the opposite border of the map limit of where the player is at, or a randomly set "Hideout" by a script whenever someone gets suspected kinda like:
"The cops are on your trail, get to the Hideout (Red Checkpoint) in Bayside Marina to drop the heat!"
Something like that could fix the problem, of course I'm very aware on how complex the script will be, but I trust on our scripters ;)
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About as ridiculous as players trying to find loopholes to bend the rules in to their version of the truth.
People sure like to make simple ideas so goddamned complicated.
THIS IS NOT IRL, THIS IS A GAME. IF THEY KILLED CIVILIANS THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN PUNISHEDM, LEARN THE f**kING DIFFERENCES, I AM STARTING TO GIVE UP ALL HOPE ON YOU AS A PERSON
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspect)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime) ("Criminal" redirects here.)
Suspect - In the law enforcement jargon, a suspect is a known person suspected of committing a crime
Crime - Crime is the breaking of rules or laws for which some governing authority (via mechanisms such as legal systems) can ultimately prescribe a conviction.
See what I did there?
Oh the irony. SugarD's explanation for Suspect & Criminal is termed specifically for Argonath all these years.
Back to topic. Tony's idea seems interesting but of course suspects would probably just ignore it and continue whatever they were doing before/ after RHL was added. These are the problems we face, and instead of shitting on everybody and everything, look for the solution that benefits everybody (Cops, suspects, and admins).
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I've read about half the topic and... you could just stick to the current rules and have cop-baiting enforced harder?
If suspects are not actively trying to escape - copbaiting.
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That is why your utopic plethora will never find its way. It's sacrifice of the either.
More like the players seem to have a problem with twisting things around to justify them breaking the existing rules so they cannot be punished. Argo is not a jungle of rules. It just prefers to explain the existing ones in a better manner when people try to bypass them.
Last I checked, ****ting on the community was also not allowed. I would watch what you say here, else you'll be proving Gandalf's point further.
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The real problem here is that people do not have enough interesting things to do, so they pick fights with cops all day, resulting in what you guys call "never-ending shootouts". An average player can collect a substantial amount of money and weaponry within one or two months, and then he gets bored of doing everything by the book. A good solution could be giving them other stuff to focus on and introducing higher penalties for dying as suspect and higher prices of weaponry instead of introducing a new set of confusing rules.
This.
If suspects are not actively trying to escape - copbaiting.
This.
"The cops are on your trail, get to the Hideout (Red Checkpoint) in Bayside Marina to drop the heat!"
Something like that could fix the problem, of course I'm very aware on how complex the script will be, but I trust on our scripters ;)
This.
We're discussing our own solution that meets a happy medium between all the players, administration and the overall vision of the owners. Interestingly enough Tony nailed the hammer mostly on the nail with his suggestion as to what I had suggested. However the version I have come up with provides a very clear equal chance for criminals and cops. It reduces the "chasing orange dot" fever. It reduces the "lets kill cops all day" fever. More importantly it gives incentives to both sides of the grey line that encourage less killing while still providing a challenge and entertainment for both parties. Until we have address some "loopholes" in my initial plan that many in HQ have added on to giving it way better feel I will not discuss the actual details of it, I'll just say Tony had the right idea.
I'll reiterate further that Argonath isn't a DM server. It isn't a realism server. It isn't some shady RP server that lets scripts RP for you. It always has and will be a world of its own. We create our own rules, our own scripts, and together we all build a vision of what RP should be. Attacking each other here is counterproductive to that effort. We here are giving you a chance to influence the objective and outcome of criminal-police manners that can effectively forever change the world of Argonath. I strongly suggest you reconsider your wording before attacking ideas.
Fighting, bitching and useless side tracking don't solve problems. Coming together as one and discussing in a peaceful manner to address the issues, concerns and problems are what generate solutions.
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This.
What if he was suspected at Bayside? He could simply rush into that checkpoint to get unsuspected and report the officer if he attempts to suspect him back.
Post Merge: May 21, 2013, 01:22:46 pm
Best sentence 2013
Anyway, I suppose that the problem with the RHL is well... the TIME really.
So, what can we do to fix that situation? Well, remove the time?
Just like the old western outlaws, when the law was broken, "Yeehaw" to Mexico, right? They crossed the border and they were free men.
Maybe changing the RHL method to either have the criminal run away to a random checkpoint on the map, very very far away from their location. Whether it is to the opposite border of the map limit of where the player is at, or a randomly set "Hideout" by a script whenever someone gets suspected kinda like:
"The cops are on your trail, get to the Hideout (Red Checkpoint) in Bayside Marina to drop the heat!"
Something like that could fix the problem, of course I'm very aware on how complex the script will be, but I trust on our scripters ;)
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More than obvious that the safehouse would be randomly generated in a place
very very far away from their location.
Bayside was just an example, for let's say, if the player is in Pershing Square
Even so, Teddy said it himself, that arriving to the safehouse with cops nearby wouldn't allow you to evade, so there would be no point in rushing to the checkpoint if the officer was there aswell.
Randomizing the safehouse would prevent cops from camping fixed locations and it will make sure that it is chosen in a location far away from the place where the individual got suspected
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<OFF-TOPIC ARGUMENT REMOVED - KOJAK>
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Kirgiz and anyone else who wants to use this thread to vent their spleen, an interesting idea has been proposed that may, if workable, prevent the need for additional rules.
If you want to contribute please think about the idea and how it could be improved or potential problems with it, or alternatively think about some other solutions.
If you want to argue with each other, do it in PM or elsewhere, but do not derail this thread further.
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So to summarize;
Problem?
The problem here is people who want to be suspected all the time. They are constantly finding reasons to be suspected, such as staying with a suspected guy in the car while you are unsuspected. Now a (new?) rule says that you have to leave once you are unsuspected, as the police is not looking for you but for your friend.
Current situation?
The rule could be a solution to stop the endless cycle of suspection, honestly I really like the rule. However, thisrule is really illogic. Why? Because, from my point of view, it is up to the 'unsuspected person' if he wants to help his 'suspected' friend or not. Let's say you and your friend steal a car in real life.(yeah, very unlikely for most of us) Your friend was caught on a tape, you weren't. Would you leave him alone or help him in preventing from getting arrested? Right, you would still be on his side no matter what happened.
Another solution:
As the constitution of Argonath states:
'' Act XII: Accessory after the fact: Anyone who helps a criminal after he committed an offence is considered as guilty of accessory after the fact.''
The person who aided in a crime, should be given the same punishment as the one committed. That way no one will have a longer RHL than the other. Currently it is not allowed for cops to suspect a person several times to gain stars. There is also no way to suspect people for more than 1 star, this should be possible.
And this one:
A good solution could be giving them other stuff to focus on and introducing higher penalties for dying as suspect and higher prices of weaponry instead of introducing a new set of confusing rules.
"The cops are on your trail, get to the Hideout (Red Checkpoint) in Bayside Marina to drop the heat!"
A lot of people seem to be agreeing with this solution, but hear me out for a second:
- Police is after a suspect for 10 minutes. Finally they get near him in Bayside, Marina. Cops shoot at him and the suspect bunnyhops in the red circle. Bam, lost suspection. Very illogic.
- The vision of Argonath RPG says that you should not restrict players from having fun. You should also explore the map of Argonath RPG. If you want to role play with the police at a scene(while wanted), but a script tells you to go to Marina, then the fun would be gone.
- Again, you have to go to Bayside, Marina. As that is the furthest point from the LSPD, where you killed 10 cops. Damn, I have had this point now already for 10 times, this gets bored. Why should I even go there? The suspect will never go to the point and just undermine the script.
Tony and others, I really respect that you are getting solutions but please accept some critique to your idea. It is only to improve it and mention the issues.
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And this one:
A lot of people seem to be agreeing with this solution, but hear me out for a second:
- Police is after a suspect for 10 minutes. Finally they get near him in Bayside, Marina. Cops shoot at him and the suspect bunnyhops in the red circle. Bam, lost suspection. Very illogic.
So by repeating myself again I shall say that reaching the checkpoint with cops in the vicinity would not allow the suspect to evade, you'd only evade if two conditions were existing:
1) Being at the safe house
2) No cops are nearby
I hope this third time It's clear for everyone
But, by reading your situation I did come up with another downside, and thank you for that actually xD
If the cops would approach you close to the safehouse, the suspect wouldn't be able to evade, afterwards the cops would already know where the suspect would have to evade, having for sure some officers camping next to the checkpoint.
Solution?
a) Every 10 minutes (Or any specific time) the script would check if the criminal still didn't had reached the safehouse, if not, the safehouse would change to another location far away from their current location.
OR
b) The suspect reaches the checkpoint but cops are nearby:
"The cops found out your safehouse! Go to the next safehouse in (...)"
A new safehouse would be set.
- The vision of Argonath RPG says that you should not restrict players from having fun. You should also explore the map of Argonath RPG. If you want to role play with the police at a scene(while wanted), but a script tells you to go to Marina, then the fun would be gone.
The place to go would be only to evade, the suspect is free to stay wherever he wants to be if he wishes to RP with the police force
- Again, you have to go to Bayside, Marina. As that is the furthest point from the LSPD, where you killed 10 cops. Damn, I have had this point now already for 10 times, this gets bored. Why should I even go there? The suspect will never go to the point and just undermine the script.
If such, then he won't get unsuspected and will eventually die or get jailed, having the weapon loss, coroner fees or jail fine. But as I said again, SAMP works with coordinates to determine someone's location, more than just one safehouse can be scripted to be set for that particular coordinate or area surrounding the coordinate, the same safehouse would only be set 10 times if the scripts were poor in safehouse options.
If the suspect wishes to ignore the safehouse to merely cop bait, well, we have an administration team for that. ;)
Tony and others, I really respect that you are getting solutions but please accept some critique to your idea. It is only to improve it and mention the issues.
Don't worry mate, you just helped finding out another possible exploit, this is just a base, MY base, I'm sure Teddy has different ideas aswell, this idea shouldn't be taken as a final option but as a stable ground to work upon.
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b) The suspect reaches the checkpoint but cops are nearby:
"The cops found out your safehouse! Go to the next safehouse in (...)"
A new safehouse would be set.
Good one.
""The place to go would be only to evade, the suspect is free to stay wherever he wants to be if he wishes to RP with the police force""
""If the suspect wishes to ignore the safehouse to merely cop bait, well, we have an administration team for that. ;)""
This will be hard to determine.
Don't worry mate, you just helped finding out another possible exploit, this is just a base, MY base, I'm sure Teddy has different ideas aswell, this idea shouldn't be taken as a final option but as a stable ground to work upon.
No problem, glad I could help.
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This will be hard to determine.
True, but a /rwt ID command could get the job easier.
"Run where to (rwt)", a possible command for admins to determine where the suspect should run away to, making it easier to see if they're actually heading towards the evade point or having the intention to cop bait.
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True, but a /rwt ID command could get the job easier.
"Run where to (rwt)", a possible command for admins to determine where the suspect should run away to, making it easier to see if they're actually heading towards the evade point or having the intention to cop bait.
Not only to admins, but to suspects too. Not cops as they will camp.
Also, when in group RWT(the script) will show a place for you, but same for the other one too. Recently, due to the major usage of heavy air, I've been fighting the cops indoors, and on /exit there is someone spraying or a hunter/hydra camping there. If inside, how would the suspects be able to evade to Disney/Bayside/Angel Pine ?
I was thinking of this other in-door RHL system. When inside a house/bizz, cops usually camp, regroup and storm inside. And due to pepper-sprayers or hunter/hydra outside, /exit is not often a good solution...
What if, when in-doors you can start losing-heat. What would be a great place to hide yourself after committing a crime ? Out on the street or ind-doors. Of course, due to /area function which is very helpful, cops will start coming at you... This is increase the chance of getting caught, and if a cop comes inside, then, few minutes shall pass and you'll start losing heat again, unless there are cops inside. When in groups, you can split up and avoid being caught... You might risk yourself, but others may escape. Also, when you lose heat, why should you abandon the group ? I know it means the RP ended, but depends which RP did. In a bank robbery, I take the money with a sultan and 3 other robbers. I go inside a hideout, and stick with them, cops come, shoot-out begins, if cops don't negociate, then if I have the money, escape and go out, cops won't catch me as I got unsuspected ?, this makes no sense to me. Loyalty is what you need to be part of a group, and you work for it. You can't just blow it up 'cause you got unsuspected.
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What if, when in-doors you can start losing-heat. What would be a great place to hide yourself after committing a crime ? Out on the street or ind-doors. Of course, due to /area function which is very helpful, cops will start coming at you... This is increase the chance of getting caught, and if a cop comes inside, then, few minutes shall pass and you'll start losing heat again, unless there are cops inside. When in groups, you can split up and avoid being caught... You might risk yourself, but others may escape. Also, when you lose heat, why should you abandon the group ? I know it means the RP ended, but depends which RP did. In a bank robbery, I take the money with a sultan and 3 other robbers. I go inside a hideout, and stick with them, cops come, shoot-out begins, if cops don't negociate, then if I have the money, escape and go out, cops won't catch me as I got unsuspected ?, this makes no sense to me. Loyalty is what you need to be part of a group, and you work for it. You can't just blow it up 'cause you got unsuspected.
This would only make players camp in their houses with 30 other friends aiming weapons at the door waiting to lose the wanted level, resulting in a ridiculous ammount of shootouts, which is what we are running away from with this topic.
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Let's say you and your friend steal a car in real life.(yeah, very unlikely for most of us) Your friend was caught on a tape, you weren't. Would you leave him alone or help him in preventing from getting arrested? Right, you would still be on his side no matter what happened.
I guess you were never in such a situation. In real life most friendshops would suddenly be forgotten if that meant not getting arrested....
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I guess you were never in such a situation. In real life most friendshops would suddenly be forgotten if that meant not getting arrested....
Def Perry might've formulated it a bit incorrectly. Let me try to explain:
If you and your friend are suspects. You're the driver and your friend was caught on tape, not you. Would you jump off the car ( :rofl: ) or help him escape?
The answer would, obviously, be that the driver should drive to a safe place, where the criminal can take over the car and continue his adventure of escaping the police.
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The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.
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Exactly Sal, which is why this topic exists for the input of everyone to come together to find a reasonable solution that is balanced for everyone. Everyone has to keep in mind that the outcome won't always be exactly what you want but consider the option of taking some sacrifices from what you 'want' and putting at least some helpful ideas forward that can shape a better solution for everyone.
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The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.
BAM!
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The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.
Exactly.
However, the problem of copbaiting should be handled, maybe a money reset in RS5 would do enough for a while.
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Exactly.
However, the problem of copbaiting should be handled, maybe a money reset in RS5 would do enough for a while.
The solution to that is proper administration. Before you all jump on me, I'm not saying that's not happening right now, I'm just saying that the administration can get rid of copbaiting if it is reported.
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The answer is never obvious, because everyone has a different answer and way of handling such a situation ingame. That's why the complete freedom we used to have was so nice, because it would every now and then cause for the creative roleplaying that everybody always tries to demand.
The 'used to have' is still present. and enforcing one rule is not going to change that. The reason we become stricter on enforcement lies in the current day behaviour on server, not in memories of long ago.
If Panda and Maxy display the behaviour for which they were often punished in the past today, they might win a RP award...
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The 'used to have' is still present. and enforcing one rule is not going to change that. The reason we become stricter on enforcement lies in the current day behaviour on server, not in memories of long ago.
If these regulations about (un)suspection will actually start to take effect in reality, then of course, there will still be a lot of freedom in Argonath, but it's just not total freedom like it was when they didn't get enforced. I mean, if I would try to escape the cops on my Freeway motorcycle with another Angel of Death sitting on the back with a submachinegun for obvious reasons, we would stick to that roleplay scenario until we have both succesfully escaped or faced another fate. This would mean that we would at one point have one 'suspect' and someone who isn't wanted. From that point it can go either way. If a cop shows up, the guy with the white name would get resuspected, and we would have to start escaping all over again. If a cop doesn't show up, we will eventually escape.
I'm telling this, just to show you that not everyone has the mind of a copbaiter, and that even although these regulations might take care of copbaiting to an extent, they will also affect people like the Angels of Death in the above scenario. People that don't copbait and try to avoid getting wanted in the first place, but do enjoy a good gunfight or chase when it comes down to it (like everyone should, if you ask me). How in reality it will affect us is something I can't tell for sure, but once again, I predict unwanted interruptions of the roleplaying fun. I think I gave enough scenarios in previous posts about that, anyways, so I won't bore you with more.
What I also don't quite understand is why copbaiting + administration doesn't seem to be a good enough solution. In the end, starting to make it stricter will just mean the same admin work, but more of it. I won't pretend to know anything about the current day behaviour on the server (I might even get in trouble if I do :D), but is there really that much copbaiting going on?
If Panda and Maxy display the behaviour for which they were often punished in the past today, they might win a RP award...
Really, is it that bad? :D
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Really, is it that bad? :D
Not wanting to go off course, but it reached a state where "gang wars" are considered RP's and are done daily, multiple times a day even.
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Would have to see how they'd do that. Nothing wrong with a gang war itself as far as I'm concerned. As long as it's done properly...
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As long as it's done properly...
Hehe
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If these regulations about (un)suspection will actually start to take effect in reality, then of course, there will still be a lot of freedom in Argonath, but it's just not total freedom like it was when they didn't get enforced. I mean, if I would try to escape the cops on my Freeway motorcycle with another Angel of Death sitting on the back with a submachinegun for obvious reasons, we would stick to that roleplay scenario until we have both succesfully escaped or faced another fate. This would mean that we would at one point have one 'suspect' and someone who isn't wanted. From that point it can go either way. If a cop shows up, the guy with the white name would get resuspected, and we would have to start escaping all over again. If a cop doesn't show up, we will eventually escape.
I'm telling this, just to show you that not everyone has the mind of a copbaiter, and that even although these regulations might take care of copbaiting to an extent, they will also affect people like the Angels of Death in the above scenario. People that don't copbait and try to avoid getting wanted in the first place, but do enjoy a good gunfight or chase when it comes down to it (like everyone should, if you ask me). How in reality it will affect us is something I can't tell for sure, but once again, I predict unwanted interruptions of the roleplaying fun. I think I gave enough scenarios in previous posts about that, anyways, so I won't bore you with more.
What I also don't quite understand is why copbaiting + administration doesn't seem to be a good enough solution. In the end, starting to make it stricter will just mean the same admin work, but more of it. I won't pretend to know anything about the current day behaviour on the server (I might even get in trouble if I do :D), but is there really that much copbaiting going on?
Really, is it that bad? :D
I seem to agree with you totally here and yes, it is very bad at the moment. Someone who moaned in the main chat for re-suspection after he got spawn killed, unbelievable. And the worst part is that it succeeds too.
One of the main reasons for resigning from the police force and went to the other side is because I wanted to change this mentality here.
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One of the main reasons for resigning from the police force and went to the other side is because I wanted to change this mentality here.
Now that's something worth admiration. ;)
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One of the main reasons for resigning from the police force and went to the other side is because I wanted to change this mentality here.
Thankfully, we need more groups like this http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=96492.0 (http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=96492.0) on this side of the law
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The message seems to be lost in translation in this topic.
What is the problem statement?
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What is the problem statement?
There's multiple of them on page 14 alone. ;)
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There's multiple of them on page 14 alone. ;)
I'd rather /gu instead of reading 14 pages :D
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I'd rather /gu instead of reading 14 pages :D
It's an interesting read if you know how to filter properly. :razz:
But I meant page 14 alone, not everything that came before.
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Not wanting to go off course, but it reached a state where "gang wars" are considered RP's and are done daily, multiple times a day even.
:)
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Everything here ends with shooting cops.
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Speaking about RHL expiration, I remember the times where everyone were moaning like mad because they had no choice but to either surrender or die, long before RHL script existed in RS 3.0. Look what happened now, you children bastards.
How about removing RHL script?
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Removing RHL will just make things worst as it'll encourage shoot out.
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Removing RHL will just make things worst as it'll encourage shoot out.
It worked like that before. There wasn't as much controversy nowadays.
The thing is, if you remove RHL, the suspects who be forced to die or get in jail, one way or another. They won't be able to go on a spree, then evade cops and brag about how they did it e-z mode.
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Speaking about RHL expiration, I remember the times where everyone were moaning like mad because they had no choice but to either surrender or die, long before RHL script existed in RS 3.0. Look what happened now, you children bastards.
How about removing RHL script?
Remember that it is the cops calling for the changes, not those who are often suspects.
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Remember that it is the cops calling for the changes, not those who are often suspects.
Wrong. Go back to page 1 and look at who started the discussion.
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Wrong. Go back to page 1 and look at who started the discussion.
The discussion started when admins constantly denied the fact that you couldn't be re-suspected while with a group. Gandalf himself said it, and he even enforced this rule himself on his UC account.
The fact that a lot of admins are not updated with all the rules is nobody's fault.
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Wrong. Go back to page 1 and look at who started the discussion.
What, Cyril I guess?
This topic is a split-off anyway, so this topic doesn't even make any sense when read from the very start.
Don't get it wrong at all, any change to the current system does not benefit suspects in any way, as Kirgiz' words seem to imply.
You know what, I don't know if I can even think of a solution to a problem that I don't understand perceive as existing, my words are primarily to reduce the damage that others do (story of my life #sampideas).
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What, Cyril I guess?
This topic is a split-off anyway, so this topic doesn't even make any sense when read from the very start.
Let me rephrase: Look at every person who posted on the first two pages.
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Let me rephrase: Look at every person who posted on the first two pages.
Antonio made one post that seemed to want something changed, yea. However, every other post on the page was either against any change or was not made by a regular suspect.
Anyway, Antonio's first page post really made no sense. If you really care to escape so badly that you would abandon your friend then just do it. If you're the driver, then too bad - you're gonna get resuspected unless you get out of the car somewhere and leave the situation.
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Antonio made one post that seemed to want something changed, yea. However, every other post on the page was either against any change or was not made by a regular suspect.
And your evidence of this is where?
This topic is not biased against criminals, so that argument is not valid here. Everyone is being given the chance to make suggestions. If you have one, speak up now.
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And your evidence of this is where?
On.. the first page..
I read it and stated what was there..
This topic is not biased against criminals,
No, but it is suggesting a change that would cripple them if nothing better is suggested.
Everyone is being given the chance to make suggestions. If you have one, speak up now.
Well, I made mine, but apparently there is an issue with it that I can't fully understand so I'm out of ideas.
The script thing Zaila was talking about was probably the closest thing to a good suggestion involving changing the current system, if a change is needed.
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Flame, Lincoln is allowed to open fire on cops if he was involved in that crime all the time, Gandalf said that clearly
He said that clearly, but when FlameMan punished me for that, Jaaska came by as well and confirmed that.
He was very clear: "If you are a civilian, you cannot shoot the cops, it's considered as DM".
Well, since I didn't want to end up banned, I said he was right, but then why do cops suspect us when we're sitting as a passenger? I've been suspected over 200 times for aiding while I was sitting next to the driver. How come 80 percent of the cops DO suspect us for being a passenger, and the other 20 percent of smart cops do not?
Maybe because they know that they will get an easy kill?
I never got punished before FlameMan did punish me, therefor I couldn't know that rule, if I'm sitting inside suspect's vehicle, I'm obviously aiding him, and the cops should suspect me. Tell me, what do you think that I'm doing with a suspect? I choose to aid him, it's not your job to work out whether I want to escape so badly or if I want to aid my friend so he does not die?