Argonath RPG - A World of its own

GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 02:46:46 pm

Title: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 02:46:46 pm
Yesterday night it was around 05.00 AM (GMT+1) and we dealt with Baron Araatus.
The deal was he accepted pay 300.000 dollars for 10100 sniper rifle bullets. I gave bullets but he just DMed me and went away.

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4523/j4w8.png)

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3673/dzo.png)

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5809/zga8.png)

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/959/zaub.png)

After he say "Alright" he just DMed me.

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9127/v2xu.png)

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/323/vc01.png)
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: AK47 on August 12, 2013, 03:03:36 pm
Not illegal.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 03:04:32 pm
Not illegal.
What is not illegal?
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: AK47 on August 12, 2013, 03:05:59 pm
What is not illegal?

Well he can scam you.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: CharlieKasper on August 12, 2013, 03:06:35 pm
I believe weapon deals inside ammunations are legal but not protected by the management (i.e., you can be scammed and not be returned your weapon/money back).
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 03:07:49 pm
No, he can't scam and of the Legal deal, as you can see, Gambling in casino is legal, but out side it illegal, they can scam outside, as this was a legal deal inside the casino, he is not allowed to scam him.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 03:10:11 pm
Alberto should get his weapon or the money back.
as it was a legal deal, and one more Example, as dealing of drugs is illegal you can Scam the person with that.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: AK47 on August 12, 2013, 03:11:34 pm
Drugs/weapons/condoms etc are not protected by the management. It's a legal deal cause it's inside an ammunation, otherwise the PD could take them for dealing.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Brian on August 12, 2013, 03:15:09 pm
Weapon deals inside the ammunation are protected by the management, same for condom deals. The person should give either the weaponry back, or pay for them.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: AK47 on August 12, 2013, 03:21:48 pm
Weapon deals inside the ammunation are protected by the management, same for condom deals. The person should give either the weaponry back, or pay for them.

Lol serious? Been scammed mulitple times with this.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Pandalink on August 12, 2013, 04:10:38 pm
I don't care if it's legal or not, we don't scam in Araatus. For fuck's sake.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: clancker on August 12, 2013, 04:16:25 pm
Drugs/Weapons and etc are not protected by the management either the court you deal in your own risk
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Caesar. on August 12, 2013, 04:20:15 pm
I think this deal is protected by managment as it's made in the ammunation on legally way...
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Kingston on August 12, 2013, 04:26:51 pm
I don't care if it's legal or not, we don't scam in Araatus. For f**k's sake.
Oh, Now You Do

Yeah, I Heard from admins that dealing inside ammunation is legal some how, I Suggest you talk to an admin In Game first and ask him about this situation. You might most likely get your bullets back or you might have to take him to court, Not sure.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Mashgash on August 12, 2013, 04:39:10 pm
Sue him in the rp court. Your death should be vouched due to being dmed.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 05:03:19 pm
You can sue him to the court, The Court that you have to report him is the "Civil Court".

Sue him there, and give all the Pictures.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: AK47 on August 12, 2013, 05:07:34 pm
He could have roleplayed the killing and then he can't sue. There is no poc of the exact killing, just the spawn.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 05:12:18 pm
But, as you can see the player didn't RP any were.

And the guy buying the gun, didn't RP that also, how he is going to RP the kill?

Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 05:15:06 pm
He could have roleplayed the killing and then he can't sue. There is no poc of the exact killing, just the spawn.

And one more, Scamming Legally and you do RP and Scam him is also not allowed.

As you go play in casino and RP him the Scam, that is not allowed, so?
he should get the Weapon or the money.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: TiMoN on August 12, 2013, 05:47:51 pm
Sue him in the Civil Court, take your money and your weapons.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 05:57:28 pm
He can only get one thing, the Defenant have to decide that, that he need to keep the weapons or he need to remove 300k from his account, simple as that.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Antonio. on August 12, 2013, 05:59:35 pm
Sue him in the rp court. Your death should be vouched due to being dmed.
DM is a matter for the administration, not for the court.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: SkyHawk on August 12, 2013, 05:59:46 pm
Although this may have been a legal deal because it took place, inside an ammunation I don't believe that you are under theft protection from management because you chose to do a player to player deal rather than purchasing your weapons from the actual Gun Dealer aka Ammunation. While this may be the case, it still was a legal deal, therefore legal action can be taken if you were killed in an un-roleplay fashion such as Death matching. If this is the case I would highly recommend taking it to a Civil Court room, and present all the evidence you have, and make sure to notify Mr. Baron of his suit, the fact that you were killed should be expunged due to the terms of it. Hope this helps..

SkyHawk
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 06:03:38 pm
Although this may have been a legal deal because it took place, inside an ammunation I don't believe that you are under theft protection from management.

No Sky, all the legal deal are under the protection of Management.

Weapon deals inside the ammunation are protected by the management, same for condom deals. The person should give either the weaponry back, or pay for them.

Read this sir. :)
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Brian on August 12, 2013, 06:10:12 pm
No Sky, all the legal deal are under the protection of Management.

Read this sir. :)

Ignore what I said please, I am not a SAMP RPG manager, this is just how I experienced it myself.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 06:18:16 pm
Your Experience is correct, All the legal deals are under the protection of the Management, as till I have played Argonath RPG. I would suggest him to Sure him.

all the legal deal need that.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Rapper on August 12, 2013, 06:45:14 pm
Why it should be legal deal? Look at the facts:
He is selling weapons in Ammunation to a SUSPECT/CRIMINAL.
With this weapon, since the buyer is criminal, he can kill OFFICER.
This means, not legal deal.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 06:55:33 pm
Why it should be legal deal? Look at the facts:
He is selling weapons in Ammunation to a SUSPECT/CRIMINAL.
With this weapon, since the buyer is criminal, he can kill OFFICER.
This means, not legal deal.
How can I know he is a criminal?
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Mashgash on August 12, 2013, 07:03:30 pm
DM is a matter for the administration, not for the court.
As far as I understand my own text I never said that the court should handle the death-matching. All I said was that his kill should not be taken into consideration upon submitting the lawsuit due to not being executed accordingly to the server rules.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Marcel on August 12, 2013, 07:04:20 pm
Since this is about a transaction, any court case resulting from this should go to the Economical Court, off course.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: CharlieKasper on August 12, 2013, 07:14:24 pm
No, he can't scam and of the Legal deal, as you can see, Gambling in casino is legal, but out side it illegal, they can scam outside, as this was a legal deal inside the casino, he is not allowed to scam him.
And one more, Scamming Legally and you do RP and Scam him is also not allowed.

As you go play in casino and RP him the Scam, that is not allowed, so?
he should get the Weapon or the money.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6cUby8vBVD0KNMz18-BPqqZO7uUlLZYOy4agGL_-g2VKBobWAqw)
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 07:17:10 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6cUby8vBVD0KNMz18-BPqqZO7uUlLZYOy4agGL_-g2VKBobWAqw)
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2263/qk44.jpg)
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Duncan_James on August 12, 2013, 07:23:06 pm
You cannot sue him since you died, period.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: SkyHawk on August 12, 2013, 07:37:04 pm
You cannot sue him since you died, period.

If he was killed in an unroleplay fashion, which is the mannor in which he was killed then the court should overlook his death as it was result of rulebreaking present at the situation.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: clancker on August 12, 2013, 07:44:44 pm
If he was killed in an unroleplay fashion, which is the mannor in which he was killed then the court should overlook his death as it was result of rulebreaking present at the situation.

Actually he haves a Roleplay reason he scammed him he should get ride of him so he don't get in troubles
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: SkyHawk on August 12, 2013, 07:46:59 pm
Actually he haves a Roleplay reason he scammed him he should get ride of him so he don't get in troubles

There isn't a screenshot of the shooting so we can't speculate on whether or not there was roleplay involved that will all be relinquished in a log check. What i'm saying is if there was no roleplay involved in the killing then it can be expunged as death matching in court and be ruled out allowing the court case to remain open. Now if he was killed in roleplay then you are correct and a court case cannot be filed. Like previously stated we cannot really tell if there was any interaction that led to the killing. We won't know without confirmation from a Manager anyways..
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 07:47:47 pm
Actually he haves a Roleplay reason he scammed him he should get ride of him so he don't get in troubles
There could be a RP reason but there was no RP there.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Duncan_James on August 12, 2013, 07:58:35 pm
I wouldn't lose a previous court case if the deathmatch could be ignored.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Pablo Escobar on August 12, 2013, 08:05:35 pm
If the drug deal at ammu nation with legally you'll get your cash / bullets back and Baron aint newbie player to DM someone ,as i can see you have perfect evidence to get him banned from DM , its all clear try to contact with Manager or community leader to the take your cash / bullets back and report that guy to DM.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 08:08:34 pm
If the drug deal at ammu nation with legally you'll get your cash / bullets back and Baron aint newbie player to DM someone ,as i can see you have perfect evidence to get him banned from DM , its all clear try to contact with Manager or community leader to the take your cash / bullets back and report that guy to DM.
Edit : It wasn't a drug deal.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Pablo Escobar on August 12, 2013, 08:09:30 pm
Edit : It wasn't a drug deal.

Sorry , my bad i meant the bullets .
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Kojak on August 12, 2013, 08:35:50 pm
Firstly, according to our constitution, trading weapons in any public area is illegal unless it is done inside an Ammunation. In this case the transaction was made inside an Ammunation and it was therefore legal.

Our policy is to protect players who engage in legal trade either through server rule or by script protection. This is why we ban players who scam in casinos because currently there is no script protection players can rely on.

When purchasing weapons players are offered a scripted solution which is to bypass players altogether and purchase direct from any Ammunation, however this does not help someone who is selling weapons as Ammunation does not buy them.

So for those players who do wish to sell weapons we offer protection by providing a built in limit to how much ammo can be sent in one transaction, so large amounts of ammo can only be sent as a result of many small transactions. It is therefore expected that players who wish to trade weapons would take advantage of this and ensure they receive payment after each transaction, if they did that their risk would be dramatically reduced.

As far as the player who has opened this thread is concerned, he chose to forgo that protection by making all the transactions without receiving payment. For that reason he must take responsibility for his own actions and administration will not intervene in such a case.

However, that does not mean he has no options at all. Because the deal was legal by the constitution he may seek assistance from the court who may, after considering the evidence, find in his favour.

Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Alfredo_DeLuca on August 12, 2013, 08:45:15 pm
Firstly, according to our constitution, trading weapons in any public area is illegal unless it is done inside an Ammunation. In this case the transaction was made inside an Ammunation and it was therefore legal.

Our policy is to protect players who engage in legal trade either through server rule or by script protection. This is why we ban players who scam in casinos because currently there is no script protection players can rely on.

When purchasing weapons players are offered a scripted solution which is to bypass players altogether and purchase direct from any Ammunation, however this does not help someone who is selling weapons as Ammunation does not buy them.

So for those players who do wish to sell weapons we offer protection by providing a built in limit to how much ammo can be sent in one transaction, so large amounts of ammo can only be sent as a result of many small transactions. It is therefore expected that players who wish to trade weapons would take advantage of this and ensure they receive payment after each transaction, if they did that their risk would be dramatically reduced.

As far as the player who has opened this thread is concerned, he chose to forgo that protection by making all the transactions without receiving payment. For that reason he must take responsibility for his own actions and administration will not intervene in such a case.

However, that does not mean he has no options at all. Because the deal was legal by the constitution he may seek assistance from the court who may, after considering the evidence, find in his favour.

Before I deal, I was already asked this "Legal weapon deal in ammunation" thing to some admins and 1 manager. They told me "Scamming in legal trades is not allowed." and I trust their words. In my opinion ammount is not important. Legal deal is legal. If it would be illegal, I never been send bullets first.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Kojak on August 12, 2013, 08:55:19 pm
Please send me a forum PM with the names of the admins and the manager who told you this, I will check with them and if I can confirm you were told this transaction would be protected by administration I will be happy to reimburse your losses.

Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 12, 2013, 09:01:41 pm
Thank God What ever I said, was correct :).
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Mashgash on August 13, 2013, 03:45:02 am
I wouldn't lose a previous court case if the deathmatch could be ignored.
You must have the ability to defend yourself :)

The discussed event is protected by the following act in Argonath's constitution;
Quote
Act VII: Trading weapons in public space (unless in a weapon shop) is an illegal act.
So it is logical if weapon deals inside an ammunation should be considered same as casino gambling.

However, that does not erase the option to go via the role-play court and have an awesome session in the Las Venturas Court House :D
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: CharlieKasper on August 13, 2013, 11:46:34 am
Thank God What ever I said, was correct :).
Thank God.................................... ....................................

Read what Kojak said carefully. He said there's a transaction limit to prevent scams. The player skipped that part therefore is responsible for his actions. I assume he meant that weapon deals are not protected by management, legal or not.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Kojak on August 13, 2013, 11:53:02 am
Read what Kojak said carefully. He said there's a transaction limit to prevent scams. The player skipped that part therefore is responsible for his actions. I assume he meant that weapon deals are not protected by management, legal or not.

That is correct. As weapon trading has protection built in, albeit protection that requires some participation of the player, no further administrative protection will be offered. It is not recommended to forgo this protection at all, but you might choose to for the sake of convenience if you completely trust the buyer; that is your choice to make and your responsibility if it goes wrong.

Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: KelviNC on August 13, 2013, 12:03:41 pm
Sorry, but I use to think that, all the legal deal were under the protection of the managment, as the legal of a casino.
Any ways, I will wish if Albert will get his money or the weapon.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: TiMoN on August 13, 2013, 12:04:28 pm
Sorry, but I use to think that, all the legal deal were under the protection of the managment, as the legal of a casino.
Any ways, I will wish if Albert will get his money or the weapon.
He won't, unless he magically pops out and lives again. Legal "deals" were never protected by management and administration, Court cases' money are usually transferred by managers.
Title: Re: Got scammed at legal weapon deal in ammunation
Post by: Leon. on August 28, 2013, 06:28:50 pm
Really? I heard the limits were just to slow people down for cops to come.
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