Argonath RPG - A World of its own
GTA:SA => SA:MP - San Andreas Multiplayer => SA:MP General => Topic started by: Teddy on August 19, 2013, 07:02:16 am
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What is gender equality?
Quite simply it is the concept " that men and women should receive equal treatment, unless there is a sound biological reason for different treatment". This can apply to many, many topics and areas around the world from politics, work places, and even games.
How this applies to Argonath.
We all know there is no limitation in a players ability to play as a female character, regardless if they are indeed a real female or not. This is the vision of Argonath and the realistic ability of roleplaying. You can roleplay what you want, when you want and how you want granted how you do it falls safely within the server rules and doesn't agitate the game play of others.
Where the problem is.
Regardless if your minds are able to accept it or not, we, as in Argonath and the internet do have legitimate females who play and they should feel equally comfortable to play here. There has been a number of instances in a past in which simple jokes have crossed the line of harassment, and cyber-bullying. This includes running up to random female players and constantly making sexual remarks, asking if they are really a girl, and many other inappropriate gestures.
No player should feel uncomfortable in the positions they choose to roleplay as. I personally have recently had a conversation with a female player stating she was debating just playing as a male character and using male name simply because of the consistent issues I mentioned earlier.
The point
Harassing someone you think is really a man, who is claiming to be or is really a female is unacceptable. Who gives an honest shit what the gender is of the person on the other side of the screen. We come here to have fun roleplaying, that has absolutely nothing to do with what is under the belt of the real person behind the screen.
Constantly making sexual remarks against female players is also unacceptable, unless in a RP manner in which they, or anyone else is comfortable. The server rules do designate to stay within certain boundaries, however if you feel like going there... so be it, be private and make sure the person you are RPing with is fully comfortable and knows where the RP is and is going.
The other side of the table
This chunk applies to the female players. We can not deny it has happened in the past and can, and most likely will happen again. Just because you are a woman in a crowd of pubescent males does not in anyway justify you special rewards, treatment, or any other advantage over any other player. You should not constantly ask for money, or try to exploit the fact you are a female player to gain some sort of advantage.. its just not right.
When does it become cyber-bullying
As has been stated by Argonath HQ before, any acts, intentions of, or behaviors of cyber-bullying will render immediate bans. It is important to ensure you are staying within the realm of "fun" and not crossing over to cyber-bullying, and harassment. The simple and realistic solution is to not attempt to treat or react to any female character with any personal bias, judgement, or attitude. The real answer is use common sense. If you were a woman, what would you find acceptable and what would you find unacceptable?
Reporting these cases
Again, this is mainly to the female players, or male players who are wishing to RP as female players. If you encounter any instances in which you personally feel uncomfortable, offended, or troubled due to sexual harassment, or even a sexual joke the first step you should do is PM the person who is doing it, and explain that you don't like it when they do whatever it is they are doing. If the behavior escalates, or continues do not ignore the situation. Contact administration, if you aren't comfortable reporting it using /report, or even privately to any admin online. Then do it via the forums to someone you trust. I myself am alyways open to helping anyone in cases of cyber-bullying, or harassment of any sort and will do anything in my immediate power to ensure something is done. It really doesn't matter who, just tell someone it is happening.
The bottom line
These behaviors and actions simply need to cease.
A fair warning
I will leave this unlocked, for discussions regarding the manner. If any post even remotely appears to cross an offensive line it will be removed without hesitation. This topic is of a serious manner, not a joke.
Thanks for understanding,
Teddy
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The amount of harassment female players get here is absolutely pathetic. I mean, it's just a female. You tend to see at least ONE every day... The fact that a female can't play here in peace is an issue that really can't be overlooked.
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The amount of new people that bug me when I do get on, Good times....
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This was really needed, good job teddy.
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Great write-up Teddy, a firm statement was needed.
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amen.
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Players should take note of this and they should also understand that while this post is in the SAMP section of the forum it should be listened to no matter what part of the argonath you find yourself in
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Awesome Teddy, i have watched some old posts in "Member Pics" topic and i saw much discussion about females i mean whats your problem they are just humans like others, some of them know well in informatics(PCs) so? Why you think its wierd that female plays PC? :o
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Never saw someone insulting a female player.
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<wall of fancy font teletype text>
The art of making mountains out of molehills...
Could be said in one sentence, really;
If someone says they're a female, there's nothing you can do but respect their right to portray themselfs as females, regardless of whether or not it's the truth.
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The art of making mountains out of molehills...
Could be said in one sentence, really;
If someone says they're a female, there's nothing you can do but respect their right to portray themselfs as females, regardless of whether or not it's the truth.
But if?
But how?
But why?
But then?
But..
But..
By writing one sentence you are just painting the right corner of the picture.
Teddy painted a whole picture.
Nicely written.
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But if?
But how?
But why?
But then?
But..
But..
Uhhhh, random question words?
By writing one sentence you are just painting the right corner of the picture.
Teddy painted a whole picture.
Nicely written.
Teddy painted the entire picture but didn't stop there. He also painted the frame, the wall it hangs on, the room it hangs in, and the house it resides in. :D
That sentence is really all there is to say. Of course there's nothing wrong with a bit of elaboration, in fact, a topic can't exist without it, but this way the people this is targeted at (who are those not aware of the privacy policies) won't even bother to read more than ''Quite simply it is the concept " that men and women should receive equal treatment, unless there is a sound biological reason for different treatment". ''
And then, sadly, get bored by the vocabulary they simply don't possess. It's overdone so for those who (like me, honestly) didn't bother to read it all or got lost, once again:
If someone says they're a female, there's nothing you can do but respect their right to portray themselfs as females, regardless of whether or not it's the truth.
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And while we are on the subject, I would like to extend this to homosexual players. We have from the beginning of our community had a share of players who are openly homosexual, and while in real life you may meet them less frequently as females, they should still be welcome equally in Argonath as any other.
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And while we are on the subject, I would like to extend this to homosexual players. We have from the beginning of our community had a share of players who are openly homosexual, and while in real life you may meet them less frequently as females, they should still be welcome equally in Argonath as any other.
It should be extended to everything, from race to language, we are all equals, which is one of the principles Argonath was founded on, and should always be.
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Nobody should feel that they got disadvantages/(advantages) because of gender, sexuality or dysfunctions of any grades.
Respect people equal and take it into consideration "in real life" too..
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Nobody should feel that they got disadvantages/(advantages) because of gender, sexuality or dysfunctions of any grades.
Respect people equal and take it into consideration "in real life" too..
^
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Never saw someone insulting a female player.
yes.
And while we are on the subject, I would like to extend this to homosexual players. We have from the beginning of our community had a share of players who are openly homosexual, and while in real life you may meet them less frequently as females, they should still be welcome equally in Argonath as any other.
YES^^^^^^
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Never saw someone insulting a female player.
Well, you didn't.
But yeah, finally a topic like this...
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Can't agree more, I've seen so many people act weird, flame, or threat women and homo sexual people diffrent because they think they are better then those people, and can threat these people like they're a pile of shit.
I've got some really good friends, that are either a woman or homo sexual out of argonath, and there is nothing wrong with this people, I can have a lot of fun with them. I ofcourse joke with them now and then, but there is nothing wrong with that, as they know its a joke as they know it is me. But if people start acting diffrent because a person is a woman or homo sexual, then they should think twice before acting.
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It should be extended to everything, from race to language, we are all equals, which is one of the principles Argonath was founded on, and should always be.
I believe it actually already does. The Argonath Vision covers all forms of this, including gender discrimination. This topic is more of just a reminder to everyone because it has become excessive in recent years.
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Never saw someone insulting a female player.
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I think it's common sense.
If there's somebody who disrespects women for being women, it says more about their pathetic personality than anything else. To be honest, I have never seen a form of serious disrespect towards women in Argonath.
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I have seen, reported, and dealt with it many times for multiple players. Numerous veterans and regulars of our community have even left in the last few years because of the disrespect they have received simply for being female.
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I have seen, reported, and dealt with it many times for multiple players. Numerous veterans and regulars of our community have even left in the last few years because of the disrespect they have received simply for being female.
Jenn
Sarah
Jessica
the list goes on and on
It should be extended to everything, from race to language, we are all equals, which is one of the principles Argonath was founded on, and should always be.
If I remember correctly, whenever someone pulls the "equality" card on other topics, people jump all over them and go ZOMG ARGONATH IS NOT FKING EQUALITY SERVER
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I miss [WS]Michelle :(
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Well, you didn't.
But yeah, finally a topic like this...
Finally? if this did bother you so much, why didn't you write it earlier yourself, especially considering you are, basically, a target.
All in all, you should've expected this behaviour from the Internet. After all, most of the time people going on the Internet and playing a GTA game are more likely less than not even 18 but 16 years old, who are also most likely less-than interacting with females IRL.
If I remember correctly, whenever someone pulls the "equality" card on other topics, people jump all over them and go ZOMG ARGONATH IS NOT FKING EQUALITY SERVER
Iceburn, man.
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Pulling the "I'm better than you" card isn't going to solve this issue. It doesn't matter who plays GTA, or what gender predominantly uses the internet. It is against the rules of this community to harass, bully, or otherwise attack anyone for any reason. There is no excuse for what some have done.
Finally? if this did bother you so much, why didn't you write it earlier yourself, especially considering you are, basically, a target.
Why should she have to? Attacking people based on gender has never been allowed. She shouldn't need to speak out to begin with.
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I miss [WS]Michelle :(
Me too :)
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The amount of sexism in Argonath is too damn high..
I once saw some.. let's say 'stuff' because I can't call the cops that did that humans, that pulloevered a female player many amounts of times until they got her mad. They started to argue in chat after she was suspected and killed THRICE for the so-called 'not complying'. Then, after that female player got temp-banned for provokinjg, those two mentioned in the radio: How could a 'fucking' girl mess with us...'
Fortunately, I told the admin the true story and those guys were banned for sexism and the female player got unbanned. This happened last year, and I still see some specimens doing similarities still...
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Why should she have to? Attacking people based on gender has never been allowed. She shouldn't need to speak out to begin with.
Exactly "shouldn't need to", but you see the issue yourself better as you claim. If it was directly concerning or hurting me, I would've already posted all my feelings on the matter. Being silent doesn't equal being resilent.
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Being silent doesn't equal being resilent.
Having rules in place also doesn't mean they are there for people to break.
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I've got some really good friends, that are either a woman or homo sexual out of argonath, and there is nothing wrong with this people, I can have a lot of fun with them. I ofcourse joke with them now and then, but there is nothing wrong with that, as they know its a joke as they know it is me. But if people start acting diffrent because a person is a woman or homo sexual, then they should think twice before acting.
Are you really sure there is nothing wrong with such jokes?
I always fail to see why it would be ok to make such jokes just because you are a friend. People around you may not be aware of the friendship and see it as a normal way to behave to others.
When you make such jokes, think of the example you are setting.
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Are you really sure there is nothing wrong with such jokes?
I always fail to see why it would be ok to make such jokes just because you are a friend. People around you may not be aware of the friendship and see it as a normal way to behave to others.
When you make such jokes, think of the example you are setting.
This is a very great point Gandalf! Many people think because you are friends its okay to make jokes in public, or deathmatch in the middle of LSPD, or in case of Teamspeak flame someone as a "joke". The problem happens when others around have no idea your just "joking" and that sets a bad stage for things to go wrong. =)
If you want to make "inside jokes" then do it privately. I've said something similar before regarding Teamspeak.
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What I meant to say is that it's common sense that everybody gets treated equally, at least in this community.
If there's somebody seriously thinking he's better because he's of male sex, he shouldn't be allowed to play in this community.
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Finally? if this did bother you so much, why didn't you write it earlier yourself, especially considering you are, basically, a target.
Maybe because if she, or any other female would have done, she would be ridiculed with, knowing the disrespect will keep growing..
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(http://cdn.meme.li/i/obc25.jpg)
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Are you really sure there is nothing wrong with such jokes?
I always fail to see why it would be ok to make such jokes just because you are a friend. People around you may not be aware of the friendship and see it as a normal way to behave to others.
When you make such jokes, think of the example you are setting.
Because most of the times, the friends start the jokes themself.
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Because most of the times, the friends start the jokes themself.
But the point Gandalf is making is that others around don't necessarily know you are friends so it's not setting the right example for others to act.
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We come form a society where we do not complicate our lives with such things as insulting for fun.
If in real life I tell one of my friends he is a faggot, I can expect him to punch me out. Even if he is one.
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Okay! I know this should be a serious topic, but...
If in real life I tell one of my friends he is a faggot, I can expect him to punch me out. Even if he is one.
LMAO..
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Being silent doesn't equal being resilent.
Same conceptual idea as "If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it does it make a noise?". The obvious answer is yes, why wouldn't it. If a rule is broken and not reported, that doesn't mean the rule hasn't been broken.
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Same conceptual idea as "If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it does it make a noise?". The obvious answer is yes, why wouldn't it. If a rule is broken and not reported, that doesn't mean the rule hasn't been broken.
I like you when you start being philosophical!
Ontopic: Good point. People should start thinking about the implications of their behaviour, however mistakes are made since we're all humans. As a community, we should focus on pointing out the mistakes when they occur, let the offenders acknowledge their mistakes so that they may learn from it and become better in general.
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Having rules in place also doesn't mean they are there for people to break.
Excellent job on completely missing the point. I'm glad you didn't have to suffer the way the girls did.
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Off-topic argument between SugarD and Mikal removed. Stay on topic, if you wanna have a cat fight take it to PM.
Good point. People should start thinking about the implications of their behaviour, however mistakes are made since we're all humans. As a community, we should focus on pointing out the mistakes when they occur, let the offenders acknowledge their mistakes so that they may learn from it and become better in general.
Often people don't think of the consequences when they decide to bully someone over the internet. I'm not just speaking of the direct ones either like getting banned, but other emotional and metal consequences it can have to the person they are bullying. We hear all the time of things like suicide as a result of this. My simple message is don't be stupid, you think its fun and games but think about how hard it can be knowing you resulted in causing someone to take their own life.
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If a rule is broken and not reported, that doesn't mean the rule hasn't been broken.
Speaking from MTA:VC experience if a rule is broken and not complained about then no one will be punished.
Also one aspect of this whole issue that is not talked about at all - Guys who use female skin. As one of the few if not the only guy who uses female skin as his main skin I am sick of getting harassed and approached with a "pickup line" - "Hey baby, how much?"..wink wink*. If you don't see a freaking pink name above my head I am not a HO, get it trough your thick skull.
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Speaking from MTA:VC experience if a rule is broken and not complained about then no one will be punished.
Also one aspect of this whole issue that is not talked about at all - Guys who use female skin. As one of the few if not the only guy who uses female skin as his main skin I am sick of getting harassed and approached with a "pickup line" - "Hey baby, how much?"..wink wink*. If you don't see a freaking pink name above my head I am not a HO, get it trough your thick skull.
What do you expect playing a game with a bunch of guys who just learned how to 'get it up'?
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Speaking from MTA:VC experience if a rule is broken and not complained about then no one will be punished.
If a rule is seen, or discovered as being broken it is to be acted upon.
Also one aspect of this whole issue that is not talked about at all - Guys who use female skin. As one of the few if not the only guy who uses female skin as his main skin I am sick of getting harassed and approached with a "pickup line" - "Hey baby, how much?"..wink wink*. If you don't see a freaking pink name above my head I am not a HO, get it trough your thick skull.
Absolutely a good point. I did address this in my main topic, it is also those who get harassed personally for choosing that role.
What do you expect playing a game with a bunch of guys who just learned how to 'get it up'?
Entirely irrelevant, your personal "difficulties" or new "adventures" should have no direct result in offensive actions, or breaking the rules. Plain and simple.
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At the same time, if you think about it, we live in a patriarchal society where people are bred that men are dominate, it's no wonder these difficulties happen. Blame the society.
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At the same time, if you think about it, we live in a patriarchal society where people are bred that men are dominate, it's no wonder these difficulties happen. Blame the society.
People are still responsible for their own actions regardless.
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Are you really sure there is nothing wrong with such jokes?
I always fail to see why it would be ok to make such jokes just because you are a friend. People around you may not be aware of the friendship and see it as a normal way to behave to others.
When you make such jokes, think of the example you are setting.
Lightening something up in this case, I think they way Brian posted it there was a bit unclear. You know my story and I am one of these people he 'jokes' with - it's nothing harmfull but sometimes it might be unclear to the public I agree.
Just making sure that we have a difference between 'joking' and 'joking' which hurt people. I'm sure Brian meant it on a good way, although I never found these 'gay jokes' offensive...
But I understand some people might not accept it and feel harmed. So I agree that jokes shouldn't be made on these subjects aslong as you are not sure if the other side accepts it and doesn't cause confusion to the public.
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Entirely irrelevant, your personal "difficulties" or new "adventures" should have no direct result in offensive actions, or breaking the rules. Plain and simple.
I didn't say it justifies their little in-game urges, they should stop being dirty little perverts and get a real girlfriend you know.
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Great topic, we have had several incidents where a female player was either sexually harassed or Cyber Bullied. Everyone here should feel comfortable and safe, this is a good focus point and Cyber Bullying and Harassments rules should be administered strictly. Respect is something we need towards our sisters and also brothers! As Gandalf stated homosexuals should also be equally treated.
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(y) Just needed this . Awesome post.
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(y) Just needed this . Awesome post.
Lol why'd you bump this?
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Lol why'd you bump this?
Unlike normal circumstances where I would castigate someone for necro-posting, in this case I think it's a very good thing he bumped this topic.
While I completely agree with the first post's contents, I find it sad as well that this actually had to be writtenn down as a reminder for everyone; it SHOULD be a given that players should be free to enjoy Argonath regardless of their sexual orientation.
Questioning someone's religion or political beliefs is one thing, because it is a matter of choice. Discriminating on people on the basis of their sexuality is unacceptable, as it is a result of who they are, rather than what they do.
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Lol why'd you bump this?
Cuz , This is going on in the server nowdays and specially in my family there are females , which are real indeed and they have been going through all this , thats why for all those people , Read it.
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The points and subjects in this topic are still true and can still be seen being ignored. They shouldn't be. Everyone should agree to this and understand it or get out.