Attacking police as suspect

[l0lller]

I'd like everybody to be objective if you post in this topic, just as I am. But for you law enforcement RPers, I'd like to ask you to view this from both perspectives (since I've experienced some of you are incapable of that) to see if my actions were 'RP enough' and we can go from there.

Yesterday I was a suspect for shooting a police vehicle when I tried to help my friend Joe get away (who became a suspect for asking [Z]Mike if he gets shot a lot as a cop). My crime was valid ofcourse. We were heading to SF and I shot two cops. One cop was shooting a guy who was standing still (propably typing /gu). The other guy was blocking the road at Flint County and shooting with a deagle at us. We went back to Gvardia HQ. I was well armed and as I was protecting the entry, near the gate, waiting for cops to abuse their /area command (as if we have chips inside us so they can track us whenever we go,NICE RP  :razz:). So cops started to show up near the gate. I shot their the tires of their cars and they stopped. They opened fire at me and I chased them out of the area. Then about 8 cops showed up and my RP character wasn't gonna give up. After all, all this started because an officer of the law, made my friend a suspect for asking an innocent question and they were trying to kill my friends. I shot the tires again and they were behind the fence. The one who was about to pop up first, was aiming a gun, therefor, I shot him. The others were trying to go around the corner when I shot them also because my character was threatened by the cops who already tried to kill his friends. I mean, usually it's the criminal that shoots first, in my case it was usually the other way around. While I was killing that army of cops, an admin who was propably there and saw me killing the whole police department on my own, put me in mordor. I asked many times who did it but nobody answered. I was put back to the gate with no answer and I thought I was still suspect so I started shooting again cuz they were all around me. Then after 2 seconds, I realized I wasn't a suspect and ofcourse this time it was valid enough to put me in mordor (if I would've known I wasn't a suspect, but I was too busy looking for spots to hide while I was frozen with 10 cops around me). Alltogether, I don't think my actions before the 2nd time I was put to Mordor, were incorrect. So I asked the second time who put me in Mordor so I could explain myself why I was shooting without being a suspect. What I got was a kick. That was my answer. I came back and they continued to ingore my questions. But this time, they didn't kick me or put a banana in my mouth. I decided to drop the subject in the server and post this topic.

So I say again...I asked who put me in mordor, nobody answered. I asked what I did wrong and nobody answered. It seems to me, that the FBI/SWAT aka all admins online except cutt3r (who is the best admin I know  :hurray:) knew I was gonna kill atleast most of them so one off them abuses his admin and the rest of the admins keep their mouths shut like it never happened. Instead, I got kicked off the server. All I was doing was defending the lifes of me and my friends.

With this topic I'd like to raise the question what the limits of criminals really are with my story as an example. Are they allowed to shoot back at police? Are they allowed to open fire at other police who just arrived at the scene when before cops already tried to kill him and most likely the same will happen again? Are admins allowed to abuse their admin powers and put a criminal in mordor who is fighting for his life and protecting his friends? Are admins allowed to kick a player of the server who is asking what he did wrong and tries to enlighten the situation so he doesn't break the rules again?

For some reason I'm afraid an admin will lock this topic because of 'provoking' (a term mainly used to protect fellow admins from disclosing the abuse that's going on in the server). But that is not my intention. I'm a down to earth guy and I say it like I see it. So, I'd like everybody who's interested in discussing the limits in criminals to do it in an orderly fashion and please don't post any simple-minded, ignorant comments.

Thank you

Damion Parker

Greenville Crip'z yo!

[Pandalink]

Criminals are allowed to open fire on all police, as long as the police officer is in the general vicinity of the criminal.
You are not allowed to, say, stop and get out of a car then kill a foot patrol officer. However, you may kill any cop within shooting range without warning.
If a cop is fleeing you, after almost dying, you are allowed to chase the cop and kill him, unless the cop gets in a car and drives away.

Basically, as long as neither of you are in a car, you may kill all cops as suspect - as they may open fire at you anyway.
Some cops don't get this, because they are retarded.

If what you say is indeed true (and you've said the whole truth), then the jail was invalid.

[Aksel]

I've also seen some officers who uses a gun against a melee target.
Which is....yeah.

[Rusty]

Criminals don't have time to Type /gu cause you stop and the Cops keep shooting even when you do /hail they still shoot or spray you with their lame pepper spray till you die.
Nothing relative with Topic just needed to say it, pisses me off.

[Marting_Riggs]

the story is true



when i am running out of a car ready to exploid they don't give me time to run so i don't die from the car even when i am willing to /gu to save my guns

[Cofiliano]

First part of Panda`s Reply so professional, and leet from a regular player/admin/ w/e and then this ...

Some cops don't get this, because they are retarded.

I allmost fell from the chair when i read this sentence...

[Pancher]

As long as the cops is hunting you or attempt to stop you in anyway, or run you may shoot them. If a cop has a donut break at market and you come from rodeo tou cant just stop at the cop and kill him cos your wanted. He need to have shown any sign of attempt engage you. 

With afew words, dont attack random, just thoose who is involved in the case, hunting you or escaping you..

SWAT have been "stand down" (not responding on any call out) for an long period now so i doubt they have been involved in your story..

[l0lller]

Yea I only shoot cops when they are hunting me down. If there are cops running away after shooting me I will sometimes hunt them down. But usually I just let them go. Good to hear I didn't do anything wrong. Thanks for all your reactions. And remember, if you see your wife and kids again, don't try to arrest me.

[Kitsune]

I was well armed and as I was protecting the entry, near the gate, waiting for cops to abuse their /area command (as if we have chips inside us so they can track us whenever we go,NICE RP  :razz:).

That is not abuse and in fact the server rules in RS3 forbid suspects from hiding in interiors due to the fact that /area did not work in them.

So I say again...I asked who put me in mordor, nobody answered. I asked what I did wrong and nobody answered. It seems to me, that the FBI/SWAT aka all admins online except cutt3r (who is the best admin I know  :hurray:) knew I was gonna kill atleast most of them so one off them abuses his admin and the rest of the admins keep their mouths shut like it never happened. Instead, I got kicked off the server. All I was doing was defending the lifes of me and my friends.

If this is what you believe, then you obviously do not know who the members of FBI and SWAT are. Moreover, as Pancher said, SWAT has not been in an active state for quite some time.

Admins do not explain the reason for punishment of another admin unless they know. In the case of deathmatching, this is something you need to investigate, so if the only admin who investigated was the one who put you in Mordor, then don't expect the other admins to answer for him. To the reason the admin didn't answer, he may have been too pre-occpied with something to answer/notice, afked or crashed, though this is just speculation on likely scenarios.

With this topic I'd like to raise the question what the limits of criminals really are with my story as an example. Are they allowed to shoot back at police? Are they allowed to open fire at other police who just arrived at the scene when before cops already tried to kill him and most likely the same will happen again? Are admins allowed to abuse their admin powers and put a criminal in mordor who is fighting for his life and protecting his friends? Are admins allowed to kick a player of the server who is asking what he did wrong and tries to enlighten the situation so he doesn't break the rules again?

You can shoot at cops pursuing you and also to an extent when they are escaping from combat with you. Admins are not allowed to abuse their commands for personal reasons, so I'm sure that the admin who put you in Mordor saw a legitimate reason to do so. Whether the reason was actually legitimate, I cannot say as I don't know the full story of the circumstances.

As for the kick and banana, I don't know exactly what you said, but given how a lot of people "ask", if you go about breaking chat rules such as mass caps, flaming, flooding, etc., while you're asking, then that may lead to punishment.

[Rory]

I've also seen some officers who uses a gun against a melee target.
Which is....yeah.

Which is not abuse.

I can justify using a firearm or deadly force against a suspect or civilian that is beating me to death with a bat or melee object.

I quote the Argonath Laws which state deadly force can be used to eliminate a life threatening situation to yourself or others.

[l0lller]

Admins do not explain the reason for punishment of another admin unless they know. In the case of deathmatching, this is something you need to investigate, so if the only admin who investigated was the one who put you in Mordor, then don't expect the other admins to answer for him. To the reason the admin didn't answer, he may have been too pre-occpied with something to answer/notice, afked or crashed, though this is just speculation on likely scenarios.

I was a suspect for aiding which was valid and I was shooting every cop that engaged me. That is not deathmatching. I was fighting the cops for nearly 10 minutes. But the admin in question decided to put me in Mordor the moment when the cops went through the gate. Very nicely timed don't you think? *COUGH* Five seconds after I was put to Mordor I asked in /p who it was that did it. Since I was the only one at the gate in front of Gvardia HQ so there were no other suspects outside, he did have time to response. As far as I remember, there were two admins RPing cops that I saw present. There could've been another one there as there were 3 admins online RPing cops, but there were so many cops and I couldn't catch all their names. So atleast two admins saw what happened and are able to confirm I didn't deathmatch. Unless one of those two have abused me, I doubt that person will confirm it  . I've also asked who did it after all the suspects I was with were dead or driven to the station.

As for the kick and banana, I don't know exactly what you said, but given how a lot of people "ask", if you go about breaking chat rules such as mass caps, flaming, flooding, etc., while you're asking, then that may lead to punishment.

I didn't use caps, I didn't flame, I didn't flood. I quote myself: "Who put me in Mordor?" and "Why am I in Mordor?" I asked these questions about five times the first minute(s).

I'm sure if you'd read the server logs, you'd be very surprised.

[Fido Dido]

Which is not abuse.

I can justify using a firearm or deadly force against a suspect or civilian that is beating me to death with a bat or melee object.

I quote the Argonath Laws which state deadly force can be used to eliminate a life threatening situation to yourself or others.

Correct.

[Cutt3r]

As long as the cops is hunting you or attempt to stop you in anyway, or run you may shoot them. If a cop has a donut break at market and you come from rodeo tou cant just stop at the cop and kill him cos your wanted. He need to have shown any sign of attempt engage you.  

With afew words, dont attack random, just thoose who is involved in the case, hunting you or escaping you..

+1. This is exactly what I tell everyone.

Again if what you say is 100 percent true, the jailing seems invalid. The kick also seems invalid if all what you say is true. I do not think I was there at that time, not sure really cuz of the chat flood it is hard to concentrate.
You are free to defend yourself against any cop who wants to take you down. This does not in any way warrant criminals running behind cops and killing them when the cop has not even known what crime the criminal has done ie has not been chasing the suspect. Time and time again the chasing down of cops by criminals has been watched and punished by me. Yes, I have got intense flak for that in Pm and main chat. But such behaviour will not be tolerated. If a police officer shoots you when you try to give up, its blatant abuse. Policemen need not shoot a person standing still. However, criminals cannot blame a cop if the criminal has been shooting and slowly their HP is all the way down to 10 and THEN they give up..cuz it is but natural that a cop who was chasing the criminal for some time would continue to shoot as the criminal has shown no intention of giving up. Think about it, what would you do if you have been chasing a suspect for the last 15 minutes who only has been shooting cops and running away!
So what do criminals do when they are at 10 hp and want to give up? I would say - run, stand behind a tree or into an interior or into a car and THEN type /gu! Cops have enuf time to see the message and will not shoot you then. If you are shooting at them and then type /gu you cannot expect them to stop as they are concentrating on killing you at that time. If you can scream a couple of times "I surrender!" after typing /gu

Mind you, what I have written is no rule. Its just my opinion, my take on things. This is what I do whenever I am a criminal. I run and when I wanna give up i hide behind a tree or enter a car and /gu. Then the cops dont shoot.