Administration (Discucssion, not complaint)

[Fabio]

Alright, for the past couple of weeks, months, I have seen people complaining about Admins not doing this, Admins not listenting to reports, I can see why people are complaining, but I can also see why Admins have problems, from personal experience, I have seen that it is hard for some people to look over the whole server, because you never know what is happening, but I've spoken to a lot of other Admins about this, today, I was speaking with Pancher, I was asking him, about all this reporting system and stuff, he told me, that they try to stop new players from doing shootouts, and stuff, but I told him, how can new players survive in Argonath RPG, if some of the regulars are rulebreaking consistently, I really think its shameful that some of the regulars do rulebreak, for their own selfish reasons, in my opinoin, regulars should be sorted out first before new players, new players have plenty of time to learn, regulars have been here for some time, and already know the rules, and they are just "taking the piss", by breaking rules they already know just to get what they want.

Another thing, I've seen is people get /warn' ed for crazy reasons, when I use warn command (VC:MP), I use it for reasons such as "Deathmatching, car-killing, flaming", once, I was warned for "leave it to us", what type of warning is that, for things that are not rulebreaking, you should explain to players, not try to show off your authority by using /warn, I have also seen many times, that people who do stupid things consistently, don't get what they deserve, like a permanant ban.

EDIT: A warning is a warning, not a punishment, a warning is for rulebreaking, if you want to tell someone something, you don't warn them, you should speak to them with respect instead of handing out warnings.

If the whole Argonath RPG Admin Team, including the SA:MP Team, discuss, reason, we can make all servers including SA:MP the best for the players, only by working together, can we fix things like this, I know that a lot of Argonath RPG Admins, including some from SA:MP, have the same opinions as me.

This topic is NOT ment to be a complaint to any Admins, it is just to discuss, because if noone brings this up, this will continue to happen.
Please, voice your opinions.

[Tovenaarke]

Not afriad to open this conversation... We are humens and can't be on all places on the samen time...

[l0lller]

Only admins are capable of having a real opinion about this, because most players don't even know how admins systematically handle the reports. What I do know is that they're not in the same cbradio/ts channel. This means it takes a lot more time for them to communicate. I also know that there is this thing that admins can put themselves on a report by using a command, so there are propably reports being put in queue as you will. So again, I think admins should either be in the same cbradio channel or the same ts channel. So they're quicker at responding and discussing reports.

What I'm about to say may come off strong, but some admins are lazy. They wanna keep RPing, which is understandable, because everybody wants to play the game. But there are only a few admins that are always prepared to help. I think the best example is cutt3r. He is an example for all admins. Always objective, prepared to help and does what he can. I can't imagine it doesn't bug him his fellow admins keep RPing while he's taking out the trash all the time.

The warnings+kicking doesn't accomplish anything. Mordor+Tempbans are the way to go.

Biased admins: I could write a whole essay on this, but I'll leave this to somebody else.

[Tovenaarke]

Agreed on some points:

Only admins are capable of having a real opinion about this, because most players don't even know how admins systematically handle the reports.

True, but you can ask how we work, and we try to explain.

Disagree:

that they're not in the same cbradio/ts channel

We have our admin channel... Private, and we comminicate. We are also not afraid to ask help to other, nor afraid to 'demand' something to other admins ("Check player 1 pelase")

but some admins are lazy

If you have proofs, I agree.
Its better to day:

They wanna keep RPing

If you don't do, then they are complaining than we doesn't take time for them. So many admins share there time to Admin - RP. As I speak for myselve: Admin time is 80%, 10% goes to the CMB, 10% RP...

The warnings+kicking doesn't accomplish anything. Mordor+Tempbans are the way to go.

Totally wrong, but thats to muc to explain

[Fabio]

Only admins are capable of having a real opinion about this

I would like to hear opinions from normal players too, because they are the ones who report.

When you become a admin, you also have to understand that you will be spectating around 70% of the time, and roleplaying something like 30%, thats the reality, not for all Admins, but maybe for some, for me, I mix around with both, and about Admins are lazy, its not really that they are lazy, its just about how they interprut each siuatons, I feel some interprut things not in the right manner.

[Pandalink]

I don't agree with /warn, whatsoever.
I only use it when I am very (very) busy with something else and can't really be bothered to explain it. It is the lazy mans' "/apm [explanation of rules]".

I don't think I am on admin duty more than just hanging around. I roleplay rarely, most time I just sit on main chat like a chatroom at LSPD.

We do try our best to keep people to the rules. I do it because I'm bored, and people like me for doing good admin work (hey, there is a selfish reason behind every good deed ). It would make my job easier if people didn't constantly pick holes in my best efforts.

[MyleS]

   i once got threaten and disrespected by an Admin, he abused what he is; trying to make his friend happy, and still i have proofs and didnt wanna do anything cause it doesnt matter anyway, i just ignored cause i know there are more and more good admins , very friendly and respectful that deserve to be respected though; as hes not and wasnt and wont be that important for me. i really appreciate some , their work and maybe the way they deal with players and help them. it makes 'em very professional, they must be proud of it

And about Reports and ignoring etc... " Its just hard to maintain order while about 60-100 players are online... " I Understand the situation.

[Gandalf]

First of all if you have clear complaints on a specific admin, write tp [email protected]
If you only have remarks like 'admins are lazy', 'admins are biased' then either give specific examples or stop gossips.

All admins are players and human beings. Most are the same age as the rest of our players. That means they have good moods and bad moods, good days and bad days. Sometimes they just want to sit and relax, other times they want to do the admin work the best they can. They can get pissed off like anyone else.

When I come online (and not only as Gandalf) I see that admins react on all reports. If the server is busy that means sometines they will not notify the reporter the outcome. And as the rules are strict in the way that admins are not allowed to punish just because someone makes a report, it can look as if a report is not handled.

While we try to keep a good team, there are times when there is just too much work for admins to handle.
Admins can not go to every player and explain them the rules. That is also something regular players should do, and if they are good in it they might become admin if they want to.

We have a clear system of punishment, and it is made to fit the 'crime'.

Warnings are for minor rulebreaks, or to make clear to a player that he crosses a limit. As chat goes sometimes fast, getting a warning does work.
Jailing can be to take aplayer out of a situation that gets out of hand, and have a small talk.
A kick is stronger warning, to make clear that the rulebreaking should stop at once.
Tempban is meant for those rulebreakers who just can not stop and need a cooldown period.
When all fails, or if the rulebreaking is hacking or banevading, a full ban is in place.

Either a good or a bad mood can make admins use improper reasons. If a player feels the reason for warning or kick is not clear, he can ask the admin in PM what was the reason. Do not do it in main chat, that will only increase punishment.

Some regular made mistakes:
- shouting in main chat that there is a hacker, taking away the chance for admin to spot the hacks and ban
- telling admins that they shoud punish some player that was reported, will be answered with 'do not tell us our job'
- complaining in main chat about admins or 'too many XXXX on server'.
- continuing heated discussions after admins request to 'drop it'.

[Fabio]

Gandalf, I understand that the Admins can't do everything, however their is always a certain amount of people, who constantly rulebreak, and these are regulars, sometimes they get warned, othertimes they get away with it, all I'm saying is Admins should focus more on keeping the regulars intact, so the rest of the server, including new players, can enjoy playing. IMO, a lot of the time, warnings which don't need to be handed out are given, and warnings that should be handed out are not.

About The Warnings, I always feel you should try to explain to a player, not to this, but I see people being warned for silly reasons, which dosen't make sense to me.

What I think is half the problem, which might cause all the things the Admins have to deal with, there is too much at stake for regular players in SA:MP, if you look at how SA:MP system works unlike MTA:VC, VC:MP, MTA:SA system, if you die, get jailed, things like this, you loose money, a lot of people in SA:MP, from what I've seen, think money is everything, they want to win at all costs, I'll give you a example.

Today, I was on medic duty, [WS]Smey called for a medic to Corleone HQ, so I responded and headed there, when I got there, one of the people who were fighting against the cops, came to me and jacked me, out of my car, the guy who jacked me was a regular, he is also a good roleplayer, but to me, he didn't want to loose, people who do everything for money or pride, need to understand that there are rules, and they need to be followed. After that happend, and I told Pancher what happend, I had a little discussion with him, and then I decided to make this topic.

Maybe, if there was more communication with the whole Admin team of Argonath RPG, on how to deal with these siuations, if Admins from other servers gave their views, maybe this can be solved, I don't know if it already happens in the Admin Section, but it seems to me like some of the SA:MP Admins think they are greater, Admins should work together to create a peaceful place. For myself, even though I'm still only a Moderator, I will try my best to keep the server's I play on clean and fun for me and others to play on.

[lavamike]

One thing I have learned is that there will always be rulebreakers, we can't stop all of them but we try the best we can to get most of them.  I can't speak for other admins as I am not them but I can speak for myself, the reason why people say, "Your just gonna let them get away with it?" or such is that I always try to be as fair as possible.  Unless I have proof or I or another admin sees someone breaking the rules I will normally not take action.  Sometimes I will just send out a reminder so whether they did break the rules or not they still just get a reminder.

Usually if I am RPing or such I will go out of my way to help people with things.  But sometimes I just like to come on and relax a little bit as I don't get too much time to RP normally.  One thing that always angers me and can make me quit off the server is when people act childish.  I've learned that if someone is angry, they get put into another state of mind and are not thinking correctly.  Almost every time I am online there is always some senseless argument about something silly.

Example:

Guy1 gets killed by DMer1
Guy1 reports DMer1
Now if I spectate DMer1 I am waiting for him to rulebreak and Guy1 is complaining that he lost his $1000 dollers or whatever.


Here's the thing, I am not a magical wizard, I can't spawn money nor can I take it from someone without proof.  It's really sad too that I cannot trust people to tell the truth.  There are so many people who like to lie and scam and do stupid things.  I mean cmon, it's a game for heavens sake.  I think people need to chill out a little bit.


When an argument occurs it's usually two people who have some sort of conflict or they are just being stupid and decide to call someone names or whatever.
Can't people just discuss it somewhere else or debate it without throwing the swears all around the server and calling this guy that and the other guy this and whatnot.





There are too many things to explain but my main purpose of writing this is for the people who are so uptight and get angry at ever little thing.  Arguments start flying around and rumors and revenge killing and rulebreaking and all this NONSENSE.


People just please think before you act.  Don't make a mountain out of a molehill or don't make a big deal over some little thing.  Keep the flaming to yourself and remember the Golden Rule, treat others as you would want to be treated.

*Sorry if my post in confusing I just wrote what came to my mind and didn't really order it.



Those are some of my views...
-Mike

[Matthew_Cipricla]

Admins arent getting paid, so your damn lucky they care enough to do what they are doing....

[Pancher]

i totaly agree with Lavamike.

If admins would be able to trust regulars it would be so much easier to help them, but since many lie right up your face we have to see the situation with our own eyes before we can take any action if needed or guide people how they should do to prevent get an report on him/her self.

[David_Omid]

People have to remember that not all admins are on "admin duty" or "report duty"

Earlier, I was changing a house interior for someone and then people PM me like "oh my god, ID xx is hacking, DO SOMETHING FFS", my response was "busy, use /report" and they answered like "BUT YOU'RE ADMIN"...

Just because we are admins doesn't mean we are always able to handle stuff...the golden rule:

If we say we are busy with something else, we are busy with something else

[Wolfe]

Why most of the players think we do nothing ? Cuz most of the times wen we react we use commands not like /warn, But commands that can only be seen to the player thats being used, Or we spectate and ask him to stop..And on cases wich the player already been warned verbally, Its usen /warn or /kick.