Let's get real - part 2 - RS5 or RS4?

[SugarD]

Do you guys ever stop ?

Two topics later and they still haven't gotten the answer they are demanding to be given, despite "asking" for everyone's opinions. I don't see it ending any time soon.

[Jones]

Those forum arguements are more funny than RP in game.

I'm quite sure what me and Frank are discussing is actually serious and not funny, same could be said for a few others. (Such as JDC and some others)

Fundamentally, there was a lapse in traceability between requirements/ideas and how those would be turned into functional solutions. To a degree, it could be argued that if the foundations are unstable, what good would it bring building on top of those as the higher you go, the less stable the foundations become. Personally, I believe that improving the game mode however proposed is redundant considering many of the factors I’ve mentioned. Added to that, despite the developers being great at what they did with RS5 – they are visibly demoralised and rightfully so.

Quite possibly the main "core" of RS5 wasnt at the stage that everyone thought it would be at, yet I'd still imagine that the result of RS5 which has no bugs would be one that people would warm up to. Clearly there's a consensus that features of RS4 should be brought back because it's what people enjoyed in the game. If people don't enjoy it then there's something wrong, and for every problem there's a solution. After the reaction and shit people have given the developers without actually giving constructive feedback, it's what you'd expect like you said.

I agree, economic stimulus is required but looking at the current player base it would not circulate wide enough to spur on long term growth. Let us also remember that the RS5 economy is very premature and underdeveloped - and it might take a number of years to gain credible momentum. In contrast, the RS4 economy was built over years, through incremental stages and while inflation was argued to be too high by the owner – we could resolve this issue by reducing players cash in hand and bank reserve by 25% across the community.

I'm basing my statements on the fact that I'm presuming RS5 will stay. So with that, I agree that the economy isn't in a state of actually giving a stimulus yet it isn't in a state where it can run by itself. If the player count does increase however I do believe that one large(ish) stimulus would be enough to keep the economy afloat.

Ultimately, like I said to SugarD – the community is the ultimate voice and in the current standing of the poll, it’s clear that we have an absolute majority in favour of returning to RS4.

Without players there is no community; without leaders the community has no guidance; without guidance there's no solutions.

[Aca]

I'm quite sure what me and Frank are discussing is actually serious and not funny, same could be said for a few others. (Such as JDC and some others)

Only You, Frank and Razor are serious. Others are funny.

[JDC]

What roleplay? :L

You know, that stuff you're not having. Or too busy flaming and shitting to have.

Only You, Frank and Razor are serious. Others are funny.

The irony of you saying that posts here are funny is that you're not even ingame at all. What's even funnier is that you're among the ones the ingame players are laughing on, while we're busy having actual fun.

[Lustigkurre]

actual fun.

I wouldn't call it fun but... at least im ingame atm.

[Frank_Hawk]

I'm quite sure what me and Frank are discussing is actually serious and not funny, same could be said for a few others. (Such as JDC and some others)

Quite possibly the main "core" of RS5 wasnt at the stage that everyone thought it would be at, yet I'd still imagine that the result of RS5 which has no bugs would be one that people would warm up to. Clearly there's a consensus that features of RS4 should be brought back because it's what people enjoyed in the game. If people don't enjoy it then there's something wrong, and for every problem there's a solution. After the reaction and shit people have given the developers without actually giving constructive feedback, it's what you'd expect like you said.

I'm basing my statements on the fact that I'm presuming RS5 will stay. So with that, I agree that the economy isn't in a state of actually giving a stimulus yet it isn't in a state where it can run by itself. If the player count does increase however I do believe that one large(ish) stimulus would be enough to keep the economy afloat.

Without players there is no community; without leaders the community has no guidance; without guidance there's no solutions.

Thanks for your response Jones. I agree with all of your points but believe that one may need to be refined. There is no easy fix for the economy. An economy is built over considerable time permitting that there are players there to support its growth. That said, I’d like to revisit the possibility of reverting back to RS4 as it seems it be a very detested approach which corrects the economic/group stagnation issue. Perhaps the developers can help us out here, but what is the technical possibility of reverting back to RS4?

[Jones]

RS4 lost data leading up to the release of RS5. I'm not sure who has the full set of scripts anymore (I'm presuming Gandalf kept some somewhere) but it would just require replacing the files. However, that being said, RS4 is a technical nightmare. The script itself isn't coded in a way that would be considered efficient nor does it take into account any other developers working on the script. It would be difficult to fix any bugs (of which there were quite a few, people forget that), the script would be inefficient and could potentially cause quite severe lag upon the server and there would be little to no chance of newer features being implemented.

[Frank_Hawk]

RS4 lost data leading up to the release of RS5. I'm not sure who has the full set of scripts anymore (I'm presuming Gandalf kept some somewhere) but it would just require replacing the files. However, that being said, RS4 is a technical nightmare. The script itself isn't coded in a way that would be considered efficient nor does it take into account any other developers working on the script. It would be difficult to fix any bugs (of which there were quite a few, people forget that), the script would be inefficient and could potentially cause quite severe lag upon the server and there would be little to no chance of newer features being implemented.

Thanks for your response Jones. I believe last RS4 backup was 4-5 months ago, meaning that players will have lost their player stats from approximately September. From what I understand, RS4 is a technical nightmare because many developers with contrasting techniques of coding had worked upon it crossing wires and making it difficult to untangle. Essentially, we are saying that there is very limited scope to build on RS4 from a functional (feature) perspective or to resolve existing issues such as lag.  Ultimately though, if it is the decision of the players and respected by the management – the roll back to RS4 is very much feasible and realistic from a technical and functional view.

[[Rstar]Razor]

I'd like to ask a few questions.

Why did the developers tought a new script was needed?
What was wrong with the old script, except the bugs and bad code already mentioned above?

Instead of making a new gamemode from scratch wich is totally different, why didn't the developers re-made RS4 from scratch using the coding used in RS5 and then carry on with adding new features/removing other stuff?

I get a feeling that what developers tought was wrong players tought was right. I think this the real reason we have this problem in the first place.

This is serious post. If you don't have a serious response then don't bother.

[Devin]

I'd like to ask a few questions.

Why did the developers tought a new script was needed?
What was wrong with the old script, except the bugs and bad code already mentioned above?

Instead of making a new gamemode from scratch wich is totally different, why didn't the developers re-made RS4 from scratch using the coding used in RS5 and then carry on with adding new features/removing other stuff?

I get a feeling that what developers tought was wrong players tought was right. I think this the real reason we have this problem in the first place.

This is serious post. If you don't have a serious response then don't bother.

It wasn't necessarily the developers thought to create a new script but Gandalfs. http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=103278.0

[[Rstar]Razor]

It wasn't necessarily the developers thought to create a new script but Gandalfs. http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=103278.0

I tought Gandalf was part of the developer team...

[Frank_Hawk]

I'd like to ask a few questions.

Why did the developers tought a new script was needed?
What was wrong with the old script, except the bugs and bad code already mentioned above?

Instead of making a new gamemode from scratch wich is totally different, why didn't the developers re-made RS4 from scratch using the coding used in RS5 and then carry on with adding new features/removing other stuff?

I get a feeling that what developers tought was wrong players tought was right. I think this the real reason we have this problem in the first place.

This is serious post. If you don't have a serious response then don't bother.

Razor, I think it’s because the owner/management wanted to introduce a more challenging game mode to stimulate the mind of more experienced players who had achieved what there was to achieve on RS4. Added to this, the issue of lag was a considerable burden and it was thought this RS5 would bring a refreshing feeling to the community all of which in my opinion did not strategically pan out as expected.

I agree with you Razor – if lessons are learnt from this, we will restore RS4 with the last known backup in line with the community’s wish and work should then be encouraged to rebuild RS5 to resemble RS4 with enhanced and more editable code. From that point, we should then plan to incrementally introduce features rather than overhauling the game mode at once.

[SugarD]

I tought Gandalf was part of the developer team...

Just as much as any other Server Owner, Community Leader, Division Leader, or Manager would be. Doesn't mean they are Developers directly themselves...

[Devin]

I tought Gandalf was part of the developer team...

By the term developers I was just referring to the scripters, of course Gandalf is in a sense a developer though however he's leaving the scripting to the scripters themselves.
They were given the task of making his plan into a server.

[[Rstar]Razor]

Just as much as any other Server Owner, Community Leader, Division Leader, or Manager would be. Doesn't mean they are Developers directly themselves...

By the term developers I was just referring to the scripters, of course Gandalf is in a sense a developer though however he's leaving the scripting to the scripters themselves.
They were given the task of making his plan into a server.

I meant that the questions are directed to the developers team. I don't care who answers or who can answer... Understand my point?