Enough is enough, the rules apply for all

[.James]

Then, we won't play, Cyril.
We'll be taking evidences every second and players will just hate each other and take advantages and shit.

Just

Just increase the limit of 'copban' to months and so.
Then, players will be so keen not to make rulebreaks on cop duty.

[Manas]

Justice is having the same rules for everybody. You must not take into consideration the group he belongs to. If you take that in consideration, let all the groups be treated same.

[ssaammee]

Supported, as the author of Animal Farm wrote, "we are all equal, but some are more equal than others."

[Cofiliano]

If someone is behaving or new, I don't see why we should escalate to tempban or ban directely.
A verbal warning is most of the time enough. A copban can suffice too.

No a 7 days full ban is fine. Copban should be 30 days or more for regular players (not new players).

If he's a regular player and he's using /duty to rulebreak, the punishment should be even more harsher then if a citizen is doing the same. Why? Cause he's abusing a Government Institution for his rulebreaking.

Most of people that claim to have been /su abused are either:
- Evading
- Shooting at the cop

That's like saying most rape victims are dressing up sexy, and its their fault.

Cops who abuse /sus do not wait a second before starting shooting on the guy they abused, he can either evade or shot back.
Yeah I know, /gu and investigation, right well gents never did it happen in the 5 years history here, that a cop who abused /sus gets punished for it after the investigations. Why?

Cause the suspect just gets jailed at the end and that's it. Case closed, and the abusers keeps on doing what he wants.

And then they decide to report. But it's too late as your action made it valid.
Witnessing a /su abuse is also very difficult, we can't spectate all the cops on the server and we have other things to do. That's why we ask you to take your evidences and head to SAPD Forum where SAPD CMD Staff will investigate it.

Yeah well until you do /report you're already dead, the cop altough he abused /sus, he use some reason to cover it up (evading, kicking the citizens, etc), admins check your report says "your crime is valid" and that's it.

We need a new model to keep the abusers away from /duty, or a new system when it comes to who can /sus and who can not. If anyone can go on /duty and /sus who ever he wants, this problem will just keep on raising and raising, until we all go on /duty.

I mean at the moment 80 percent of the server is on duty, when you ask them why, maybe 30 percent will tell you cause they like being cops, others will tell you that they cant handle being f**kg around all the time, when ever they tried doing something off duty.

So

lets hear the ideas, suggestions how to change this, like I said on the start of the topic, I want HQ to tell us what are they gonna do about this in changing it back to where it belongs, dealt by Admins for breaking the rules, and punished by /ban /tempban for /su abuse, Dming etc,  not 'verbal warning' 'report on sapd forum and 'copban'

[Cyril]

There is no need to change something that currently works well.
No, we are not going to permban everyone who misuse /su.

[Stivi]

There is no need to change something that currently works well.
No, we are not going to permban everyone who misuse /su.

If we go by that logic, RS4 worked well, why change to RS5 ?

Reminder: That was only an example, don't start rs4 vs. rs5 here, please.

[Cofiliano]

There is no need to change something that currently works well.
No, we are not going to permban everyone who misuse /su.

It might work well for you, but it doesn't work well for the rest of the Community.
It might work out well for some admins who cant be annoyed with it, but it doesn't work well for the rest of the Community.
If this worked well, we wouldn't have this problem happening all day and night.
If this worked well, we wouldn't have so much people who stops playing only because abusers are being covered up.
And if this worked well, we wouldnt have this topic in which as you can see, people from the entire Community not just criminals, yet cops, regular citizens are saying this has ran out of its course.

[Astaroth]

It's just too simple, I'm not sure what part can't you understand..let's try it like this.

civilan runs around, deathmatching people, someone reports him - if the admin thinks he should be punished for deathmatching, he will be punished.

cop runs around, deathmatching people, someone reports him - if the admin thinks he should be punished for deathmatching, he will be punished.

And as for /su abuse:
/report it if you think he's doing, an administrator will come up with a proper punishment for him if he's actually missusing /su
And basically what you're doing here is asking us to punish cops more often.

[Manas]

civilan runs around, deathmatching people, someone reports him - if the admin thinks he should be punished for deathmatching, he will be punished.

cop runs around, deathmatching people, someone reports him - if the admin thinks he should be punished for deathmatching, he will be punished.

And basically what you're doing here is asking us to punish cops more often.

1. But the admins in most of the cases are only insisting on reporting on SAPD forums rather than taking any more action.

2. We all want same treatment to cops and civilians

3. We are not asking to punish more often, we are asking to start punishing more strictly.

[Meepy]

Can't count how many times this has happened. Sure you can give up and try to report it or reason it out, but you'll end up just getting temp banned or warned for "refusing to comply after gu" or some other shit.

I know this has happened since forever, and nothing is ever done about it. I know I've done it myself tons of times as a cop back in RS4 because I knew nothing ever happened.

[Manas]

Even a cop now claims that he used to DM back in rs4 as he knew nothing will happen 

[Cyril]

Every admins give the punishment they want according to each situation.

[ssaammee]

Every admins give the punishment they want according to each situation.

That's why some of us bends the rules.

[JDC]

Yeah I know, /gu and investigation, right well gents never did it happen in the 5 years history here, that a cop who abused /sus gets punished for it after the investigations. Why?

Cause the suspect just gets jailed at the end and that's it. Case closed, and the abusers keeps on doing what he wants.

I can call BS on this particular quote, as I myself have punished some offending cops who were processed through /gu. I personally experienced (and in some instances, facilitated) some of these cases during my tenure as Administrator/FBI (SA:MP).

But before any small-minded detractors point fingers, let me clarify that I will be objective on this topic. I both agree and disagree with many of Cofi's points, and I will state facts that I have observed over the last five years. (to those who will misbrand them as "defense shield" and/or "pro-admin bias", feel free to shove your lies where the sun doesn't shine) I am with Cofi with regards to the core intentions with which he made the topic, which is to remind the community of the respect we all deserve.

After analyzing the topic (and its replies, rather than limiting myself to the first post alone, or else this reply will be solely for Cofi), it basically became a request to punish cops more often, as Astaroth mentioned. Despite the claims that this is not an anti-admin topic, discussion from many of the posters is delivered with the implicit assumption that admins inherently favor cop players over civilians and criminals for one reason or another.

That is false. I (and just about every admin who is competent enough to continue working) punish every cop committing a server rulebreak that we come across. If you will talk about the affiliation of the player itself, I personally don't give a f**k if they are a civilian, cop, criminal, or even someone in my own group, neither do I care if they have been here for 6 weeks or 6 years; if they rulebreak on our watch, we will deal with them as our admin duties require. (also considering new players who are actually in the process of learning our rules)

Unfortunately, much of the community do not know (or know, but refuse to remember) the following, so keep this in mind:

1. The majority of punishments are not visible to the public, like the personal warnings (not /warn) that many admins (rarely including myself as I favor more strict methods) are known to give. Just because there is no feedback to you (the reporter), that does not mean the person you reported got away with it (assuming they really were in the wrong). Remember that the admin punishment system is a means of maintaining order and justice on the server, and not red lines in the chat made to satisfy your e-penis.

2. Admins are not being "unfair" in their work. It's just that for cops, there are different ways (admin and SAPD/FBI) of handling infractions from cop players, as the nature of infractions can differ as well (i.e. outright sue abuse, vs. RP corruption). One recurring problem is that many players also mix the responsibilities of admins and SAPD Command when it comes to who should be handling what.

3. Even with RS5's added script support for non-government groups, remember that cops' privileges and responsibilities are much more intertwined with the scripts, and that not all player groups will handle themselves internally with the same level of strictness and professionalism as Corleone/Stracci/Araatus/Gvardia/Ancelotti. An unfortunate example of these are "rulebreaker gangs/mafias" and those factions where even the group leaders cannot resist getting punished, ending up with situations where they spend up to half a year (or more) leading their group "from exile" because they are banned.

4. Many players (not limited to any single affiliation) decide to take revenge (in all the wrong ways) themselves when they feel wronged, instead of observing due process. In a significant number of cases, the revenge actions are worse than the original rulebreak, which results in escalation; this usually ends with the reporter (who took revenge) getting a bigger punishment than the person they reported, and we all know what kinds of complaints usually come after that.

5. More importantly, many players also feel the need to cry after (nearly) every single (perceived) wrong done against them, instead of accepting that not everyone will act the way they want. Personally, I appreciate players who know how to handle their own problems (i.e: fighting off a DMer sometimes with their combat skills, rather than crying like a bitch every time someone so much as punches them), but also balance those with knowing when to seek the help of Admins/ARPD/etc.

6. The worst headaches on the server come from regulars and "veterans", not new players. Nearly all new players have little to no knowledge of the rules, all the more reason they need our (not just the staff, but also more experienced players') help, and many stop rulebreaking after they are taught and/or spoken nicely to once. Troublesome regulars, on the other hand, already know the rules but still choose to fuck around on the server. (How relevant is this to the topic? Very.)

7. Different admins have different tolerance/patience levels. While we have some set guidelines, we are also humans, chosen for our ability to judge when someone has violated rules, and act accordingly. We are not robots/machines, nor cogs in some kind of machine. Each of us has a slightly different way of handling things. But just because some admins are more kind and patient, that is no reason to take advantage of them. One more thing we all have in common is that we will give the same (if not harsher) punishments without tolerance once certain lines are crossed.

8. The complaint email works. Anyone who tells you that it does nothing is full of shit. If you wonder why you do not get any "follow-up" (notification that "XX has been punished for YY on ZZ"), refer to Point #1.

If you want to help the community, help US enforce the rules meant to protect YOU; be objective in your reports, refrain from causing unnecessary trouble, and focus on the more positive aspect of your playing experience/s (while helping us with the reports) so that you can still have fun at the end of the day, rather than brooding for days because some douche/troll/idiot tried to bring you down. If you let them do that, you're only letting them win.


TL;DR:

Broccoli is an edible green plant in the cabbage family, whose large flowering head is used as a vegetable. The word broccoli comes from the Italian plural of broccolo, which means "the flowering top of a cabbage", and is the diminutive form of brocco, meaning "small nail" or "sprout". Broccoli is often boiled or steamed but may be eaten raw.

[Borus]

tl;dr