Enough is enough, the rules apply for all

[Chuck_Norris]

If you cannot discuss something, and claim to be a community, without turning hostile - don't you dare calling yourselves a community.

[JDC]

If you cannot discuss something, and claim to be a community, without turning hostile - don't you dare calling yourselves a community.

You will find that staff in general don't have a problem here. We react firmly because of attempts by to shit on our work and/or this community, or people who just don't know how to properly deliver a point without destroying someone. Even if I disagree with something a team member says at the highest level, I could approach them (with common sense and respect) and have a civil discussion about it that doesn't lead to personal attacks and X blaming Y for the state of the community.

You will also find that the real problem lies with players who don't bother to appreciate the effort done, to cooperate with some admins' effort to bring about positive change, and/or blackpaint the administration just because things aren't being done exactly the way they want it. "Admins are open to your concerns" does not mean "Admins are ready to lick your ass".

This includes those who put on cute politician acts, trying to harness "public outrage" to glorify themselves at the expense of the administration's reputation. Those who uphold and spread bullshit that it is "cool" to have a viewpoint opposite that of the administration's. I don't care whose side they were on during the RS4 v. RS5 fiasco, but if they continue to badmouth the current efforts being done to keep this community afloat, then they are no better than the disloyal players.

There is a reason why many of those players usually opposed to admin views usually have dirty punishment records, which would usually be their inability to listen to rules (sometimes, those that are made of as little as two words) and to authority in general. "Rebellious teenage kids" at their worst who think that authority is bad and that disobeying is cool. Or it could be a coping mechanism to heal their e-penis because they couldn't take how they were punished at times by certain admins.

So we can try and do our best, but if some players just refuse to be helped unless we acquiescence to the point of becoming their personal nannies who do everything they want, then there is no helping them. "Community" is a two-way street, and as far as I have seen, the administration is doing its best to uphold its side. While our primary goal is to serve the community, sometimes we have to stand firm, and that includes protecting players from themselves at times.

Lastly, if the "rule by majority" is truly what is best for the community, then I challenge those who champion it to enlighten me on how our past Oscars Awards (which were the biggest displays of majority decision) all had high levels of integrity, professionalism, honesty, and were free of cheating. Please, do go on. Ill be waiting.

[Chuck_Norris]

You will find that administration members in general don't have a problem here. We react firmly because of attempts by players to shit on our work and/or this community, or people who just don't know how to properly deliver a point in general. Even if I disagree with something a team member says at the highest level, I could approach them (with common sense and respect) and have a civil discussion about it that doesn't lead to personal attacks and people blaming Manager X for the state of the community.

You will also find that the real problem lies with players who don't bother to appreciate the effort done, to cooperate with some admins' effort to bring about positive change, and/or blackpaint the administration just because things aren't being done exactly the way they want it.

This includes those who put on cute politician acts, trying to harness "public outrage" to glorify themselves at the expense of the administration's reputation. Those who uphold and spread bullshit that it is "cool" to have a viewpoint opposite that of the administration's. I don't care whose side they were on during the RS4 v. RS5 fiasco, but if they continue to badmouth the current efforts being done to keep this community afloat, then they are no better than the disloyal players.

Sorry, but there is a reason why those players usually have dirty punishment records, which would usually be their inability to listen to rules (sometimes, those that are made of as little as two words) and to authority in general. "Rebellious teenage kids" at their worst who think that authority is bad and that disobeying is cool.

So we can try and do our best, but if some players just refuse to be helped unless we acquiescence to the point of becoming their personal nannies who do everything they want, then there is no helping them. "Community" is a two-way street, and as far as I have seen, the administration is doing its best to uphold its side. While our primary goal is to serve the community, sometimes we have to stand firm, and that includes protecting players from themselves at times.

Lastly, if the "rule by majority" some people here champion is truly what is best for the community, then I challenge those who champion it to enlighten me on how our past Oscars Awards (which were the biggest displays of majority decision) all had high levels of integrity, professionalism, honesty, and were free of cheating. Please, do go on. Ill be waiting.

Great speech on my reply, if only it was related to my reply it would of been perfect !

Let me explain to you, where it is going wrong (and yes, you will be able to write a 5000 word reply after i'm done..):

- Player epicsheepdick enters the server
- Player epicsheepdick is a regular on the server
- Player epicsheepdick constantly abuses script / does not follow the rules etc.
- Player epicsheepdick has been banned twice allready

ONE YEAR LATER

- epicsheepdick gets banned
- epicsheepdick has been warned numerous times verbally, now by command (ban)

5 WEEKS LATER

- Epicsheepdick is unbanned, welcome back to our community !!


Logic ? Find me the logic in this scenario and i'll give you a beer... Guess i'll be drinking alone...

[JDC]

Great speech on my reply, if only it was related to my reply it would of been perfect !

Let me explain to you, where it is going wrong (and yes, you will be able to write a 5000 word reply after i'm done..):

- Player epicsheepdick enters the server
- Player epicsheepdick is a regular on the server
- Player epicsheepdick constantly abuses script / does not follow the rules etc.
- Player epicsheepdick has been banned twice allready

ONE YEAR LATER

- epicsheepdick gets banned
- epicsheepdick has been warned numerous times verbally, now by command (ban)

5 WEEKS LATER

- Epicsheepdick is unbanned, welcome back to our community !!


Logic ? Find me the logic in this scenario and i'll give you a beer... Guess i'll be drinking alone...

Then I guess you are already drunk, as my "speech" was actually relevant to your reply.

You've been away for a long time, and are not updated on how things work anymore. The administration has grown stricter (the details of which I cannot divulge, for obvious reasons) since the release of RS5, and now there are more ways to punish and control troublemakers.

Especially "DM groups", which were once one of our biggest problems.

[Chuck_Norris]

Then I guess you are already drunk, as my "speech" was actually relevant to your reply.

You've been away for a long time, and are not updated on how things work anymore. The administration has grown stricter (the details of which I cannot divulge, for obvious reasons) since the release of RS5, and now there are more ways to punish and control troublemakers.

Especially "DM groups", which were once one of our biggest problems.

You really know what is the problem of 'the community' nowadays? Nobody is affraid of breaking the rules, because hey ! they won't ban me so who the flying fuck cares?
And hey, if someone risks banning me, i'll be back in a few weeks !

And for your information, I know whats going on better than you think ;-)

[Huntsman]

JDC, no offense but man.. How do you not get tired? You write a freaking speech for every single reply! You should go participate in some politics instead, not be stuck in a computer game server forum 

[JDC]

You really know what is the problem of 'the community' nowadays? Nobody is affraid of breaking the rules, because hey ! they won't ban me so who the flying f**k cares?
And hey, if someone risks banning me, i'll be back in a few weeks !

Nowadays? That has always been the problem of the community before. With players in groups who rulebreak risking the shutdown / demotion of their group, and individual regular rulebreakers staying banned for longer periods of time (some even permanent, which I hope would become more), it would be stupid to say the administration is not working to eliminate it.

And for your information, I know whats going on better than you think ;-)

Unless you have access to information in the admin boards, you are not in a position to say how we work.

JDC, no offense but man.. How do you not get tired? You write a freaking speech for every single reply! You should go participate in some politics instead, not be stuck in a computer game server forum 

I attend to University academics almost half the day, full-time work during the other almost-half, am active in student organizations / politics (along with some projects involving the regional government), still find time to attend to social life and all my Argonath responsibilities, and sleep after. So I'm pretty much comfortable, thank you.

Good time management is awesome, sometimes I can't help but wish I learned it earlier.

[Chris_Knight]

Back to the topic.

I respect you Cofi but this topic is really about players being unsatisfied how administration handles punishments,and none or less you have been in skin where an whiny ass spams your pm because in his opinion your punishment should have been different.

Same it's here when talk goes about cops. None should speak who have not been an admin on this server,you may ask why? Simply because you are blind folded and don't see how administration works.

Cops who use duty and roleplay an corruption does considers an SAPD case.
That's why you are asked report at ARPD when you are unsatisfied with investigation and asked go to jail cell.
When you get deathmatched by cop and shot while cuffed,it's abusing server scripts to gain advantage.
Therefore ban,Cyril have proved above by some player posting ss.

Players are not missed out and never been,you should know it better than others Cofi as you been administration your self.

As about players like Manas or w/e balla guy,you are typical argonath player who considers that everything must be alerted or else you feel that your report is ignored and actions not taken.
Which is not true,players are punished various ways based on action and scenario,and how much intention player input to cause rulebreak.

As about constant dms from cop duty side,contribution you might ask? Lock server or play singleplayer.

Respect to you Cofi for dedication writing this topic as an old veteran player who have done so much input into community.

As about others,do not reply my message unless you have been apart of admin family on this server,thank you.

[Cofiliano]

A player, the managers think that he's good enough to represent us.
ARUN is dead, Devin is the only one I see working, so I came up with this idea, to get some fellows who Devin trust in, to help him and others.

Unfortunately ARUN was a great idea, that was doomed on being a failed as soon as it was established, and I don't wanna talk details on why, cause its a long story.

I agree with you and your idea,somehow I practice it, talking with Devin Gimli and others scripters from time to time about best moves to implement, and some progress was made, mostly on drug script and groups help.
I invited all groups from the start to join this unofficial ARUN, even had the first meeting with representatives of most groups with HQ, but  somehow the rest of guys weren't so much into it.

@ Chris
Cheers to you lad.

Like I wrote on the first reply on the topic, this isn't about being unsatisfied with admin punishment, cause admins practice the ways of punishment that they were told to do by HQ. Admins didnt came alone with the 'go report on sapd forum' for everything, they were told to do so.
This  has ran out of its course, you as being a civilian or a criminal must follow more rules and laws then cops, and that's not the problem so much ( as in it is a problem, but you get used to it), the problem is that certain individuals are constantly using this benefit to do massive Dming and script abusing, without them having any consequences, then being copban for 2 hours.

We're all here to see what we can all do to change this, cause this is something that is bad not just for civilians who are getting massively bullied and annoyed yet its all up to them to prove that on forum that's almost impossible, yet its bad for the good and regular cops, for FBI and SAPD, who are getting a bad name cause of it, and people act even more hostile toward then, although they dont deserve that.

This is a huge problem, we can't just ignore this and say its fine at the moment its not fine you can see the entire Community has a problem with it, if something doesn't gonna be changed about it and fast, its just gonna rise and rise until the moment we'll either have a community devided like a civil war which will last for long time, or we're all should go on /duty just so we can play in peace.

[Cyril]

Like I wrote on the first reply on the topic, this isn't about being unsatisfied with admin punishment, cause admins practice the ways of punishment that they were told to do by HQ. Admins didnt came alone with the 'go report on sapd forum' for everything, they were told to do so.

Completely false. HQ doesn't order admins what punishment they should use.
Admins are free to use the punishment they think it's the best for the situation.

This is a huge problem, we can't just ignore this and say its fine at the moment its not fine you can see the entire Community has a problem with it, if something doesn't gonna be changed about it and fast, its just gonna rise and rise until the moment we'll either have a community devided like a civil war which will last for long time, or we're all should go on /duty just so we can play in peace.

You might lose your official status then. As you are supposed to be a role model for other. I doubt engaging a war against the administration is a very good idea for your own benefit. You have way more to lose than to gain.

And please, don't act as the WHOLE Community has a problem with it. It's only a few minority.

[Zaila]

I have only read the first 2 pages on this topic so if i'm way off, please say so.


The administration team has been told to only act on rulebreaking when it comes to server rules, exactly like any other player. If they are breaking SAPD rules and procedures (if they are now SAPD and not FBI), they should be reported to SAPD.

I have seen 2 examples in here, /su abuse and deathmatching.

When it comes to /su abuse, it can be several solutions depending on how someone is abused through /su.

Lets say i'm getting randomly suspected by a player for a crime i haven't done. The officer that suspected me is only trying to arrest me, then it's a SAPD matter. /su was used correctly from a administrative PoV (aka to suspect someone) but the regulations SAPD have for /su was broken which means no server rule was broken.

If i would be randomly suspected by a police officer for a crime i have not done and then instantly killed, then it would be considered deathmatching and it becomes an administrative matter since the police officer broke a server rule.

The same with just deathmatching in general. If a police officer is deathmatching a player then it's an administrative matter and should be handled by a staff member online. They should not be reported to SAPD in that case.

I will bring this up on our next staff meeting to make sure that everyone is up to date on this matter.

[.James]

Regarding my previous post;
Actually, I suggest SAMP LEADERSHIP to be the ones who choose "those players".
And if anybody moaned about it, then it's no use.

[Chris_Knight]

I have only read the first 2 pages on this topic so if i'm way off, please say so.


The administration team has been told to only act on rulebreaking when it comes to server rules, exactly like any other player. If they are breaking SAPD rules and procedures (if they are now SAPD and not FBI), they should be reported to SAPD.

I have seen 2 examples in here, /su abuse and deathmatching.

When it comes to /su abuse, it can be several solutions depending on how someone is abused through /su.

Lets say i'm getting randomly suspected by a player for a crime i haven't done. The officer that suspected me is only trying to arrest me, then it's a SAPD matter. /su was used correctly from a administrative PoV (aka to suspect someone) but the regulations SAPD have for /su was broken which means no server rule was broken.

If i would be randomly suspected by a police officer for a crime i have not done and then instantly killed, then it would be considered deathmatching and it becomes an administrative matter since the police officer broke a server rule.

The same with just deathmatching in general. If a police officer is deathmatching a player then it's an administrative matter and should be handled by a staff member online. They should not be reported to SAPD in that case.

I will bring this up on our next staff meeting to make sure that everyone is up to date on this matter.

I would disagree,imo random suspection to gain money is script abuse,like any other script usage for own benefits.  Suspecting in Jcs style is an roleplay abusage which I support and consider an dirty player conspiration can be good as far both agree about it.

[Zaila]

I would disagree,imo random suspection to gain money is script abuse,like any other script usage for own benefits.

Of course, but where do we drag the line? I have no idea if a player is allowed to request an investigation inside the police station like in RS4 but if they are, then i would say request an investigation, if the situation is similar to what i wrote in my previous post. However, if you do feel that the intervention of a staff member is needed, then you are of course allowed to do so. However, it's up to the staff member taking the report to decide how a situation should be taken care of if it involves /su abuse with no deathmatching.

My suggestions is to try to solve the situation as much as possible in a RP manner without involing the staff team though.

[AK47]

My suggestions is to try to solve the situation as much as possible in a RP manner without involing the staff team though.

Indeed. People are way too fast with /report 69 omg suabuse!!11 or evading then moaning in /p when they die instead of giving up instantly and roleplay an investigation.