[COLD WAR 2.0] Russian 'Cargo 200' trucks, tanks etc head into Ukraine

[[NP]Monte Montague]

Welcome to the Cold War 2.0 thread.

You will find documentation of the current Cold War.

Former Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev has himself said the world is heading into a Corld War 2.0.
Many think it'll consist of proxy wars such as Ukraine and financial wars, no ones expecting an all out NATO vs Russia.

Russia is becoming more aggressive after many years of simply protesting against Nato and US / EU aggression / propaganda. It now seems literally on the War path as you can learn from some of the spoilers below. I will try my best to document all news and I will not be including many sources as you can google it and choose your own source. I use about 10 news sources and give a general summary.

Please enjoy and feel free to discuss the news and contribute new things if you want in the following format (spoiler is for news articles / news summaries)

Spoiler for Fort Knox 2.0 :

Economic War

Putin and his allies Kazakhstan & Azerbaijan (members of an EU of their own) are hoarding gold.
Telegraph claims they're gearing up for an economic war as the Russian currency becomes even more shittier tier due to illegal economic sanctions by the EU and US.

Some chaps are claiming he's horded as much as 55 tonnes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/11226240/Putin-stockpiles-gold-as-Russia-prepares-for-economic-war.html

Spoiler for (UN Security Council) Security Council discuss recent evidence of Russian involvement in Ukraine 13/11/2014:

As Russia holds a Veto in the Security council, nothing came from it other than throwing words at each other and propaganda  .

Spoiler for (UKRAINE) Russian 'Cargo 200' - Trucks used to carry dead bodies, cross into Ukraine and return to Russia shortly after - 13/11/2014:

International observers have said they've witnessed and confirmed that Russian Trucks bearing the Russian military code "Cargo 200" which is used for the transport of soldiers who have died in battle were spotted entering Ukraine and then heading back to Russia some hours later.

Nato yesterday also claimed Russian troops, tanks, anti aircraft and heavy weaponry had entered into Ukraine. 

Now Russia has denied these reports as propaganda but admitted Russian volunteers where fighting in Ukraine alongside rebels.

Spoiler for (Australia) - Russian war ships being observed by Aussie forces - 12/11/2014:

In Australian news, Russia's President Vladimir Putin has ordered four ships to head to Australia ahead of the G20 meeting,  in a show of naval might after Australia's PM planned to / has had a go at him.

This is clearly now proof that there is a Cold War 2.0 in existence.
That with the proxy wars in Ukraine and Syria as well.

The ships were ordered to raise the Russian flag as they arrived, such troll .

More on the Russian show of strength here:
http://www.news.com.au/national/russian-warships-heading-to-australia/story-fncynjr2-1227120928528

My opinion on this matter is as followed:
Monte likes this juicy drama but knows it's just that, drama, no actual conflict would arise from this provocation

Spoiler for (SWEDEN) Unknown submarine in Swedish waters:

Sweden launched its biggest naval operation since World War 2 after a unauthorized and unknown submarine has been spotted in Swedish water.
Swedish Admiralty have said they would use force.
The submarine was not found and it was believed to be Russian in (although no one of-course could confirm it was Russian).

One theory is that Russia is testing NATO military responses.
Some years back a Russian nuclear sub suffered 'difficulties' and ended up beached in Sweden.

Spoiler for Ukraine and Crimea land grab:

Seriously, do you really need me to make a paragraph? Just google it. You'd learn enough even if it was from the Bias BBC.

Spoiler for Proxy War in Syria:

It's Russia and Syria vs the US and EU in Syria. Russia is supplying military support to Syria, no doubt about it, whilst on the other side the US and EU created a Taliban 2.0 earlier on in the conflict which was made to encourage regime change, however now they're having to clean up before it gets out of hand like the Taliban ... uh oh spoke too late huh.... 

Spoiler for The beginning of the Proxy war - Libya / The 'Arab uprising' :

The escalated show of the current Russian intolerance toward 'bullshit' by the US and EU began in Libya after it clearly warned what would happen if they went ahead and screwed around in Libya. Putin was right. Now Libya is a second Pakistan on its way to a second Afghanistan devoid of good central government, infiltrated by Al Qaeda. It seems easily able to slip into the same as Somalia. Another example of silly geopolitical games which has led to the destabilization of a country. Of course it's no secret that the SAS was on the ground training an a hunt and kill / assassination  squad to go up against Gaddafi. Russia and China probably didn't use their Veto's at the time because they probably thought it'd not help, but I think if a similar attempt was now made, it'd definitely warrant their veto rights to be used.

Feel free to post news commentary, but please follow the same method I've used above (Spoiler with a subject line)

Code: [Select]

[spoler = ' (Country Specific?)  subject / title here ' - date]

your summary / if you are lazy just a copy pasta of a news article  :v:here

Sources:
- welcome but not required - put your source at the bottom of your summary.
[/spoiler]

[Mikal]

I'm sure Russia's ancient naval fleet would have a devastating impact... Maybe it's time Russia stopped wasting money on empty threats and provocations and spent it on updating some of their fleet for a change..

They are still using Kashin-class destroyers from the 1960's and even their newest destroyers are from the early 1980's.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Comparing it to the British Type 45 Destroyer - They look extremely out of date.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Which is why I don't take Russia seriously at all, they might have the numbers but really their entire naval fleet is 30-60 year old rust buckets which haven't been upgraded and I seriously doubt they could actually afford to upgrade them considering the fact they can't even build anything newer, it's ok Australia, I'm sure the UK will be there if you need any help.

[PulseEffect]

Looks like Russia will "shirtfront" us instead haha..

Mr Abbott Shirt-fronting Putin Soundbite

Spoiler for Hiden:

FYI this a shirtfront

Spoiler for Hiden:

If they're going to use their outdated warships against us, I want to see Australian Navy do this. Pls be real.

Spoiler for Hiden:

[Mikal]

Looks like Russia will "shirtfront" us instead haha..

Mr Abbott Shirt-fronting Putin Soundbite

Spoiler for Hiden:

FYI this a shirtfront

Spoiler for Hiden:

If they're going to use their outdated warships against us, I want to see Australian Navy do this. Pls be real.

Spoiler for Hiden:

People call Tony Abbott racist but I don't quite understand why, he's just trying to preserve Australia's culture and identity for the future and yet they are still suffering the effects of multiculturalism and mass-immigration - If caring for your own country and it's native people is being racist, then I must be one of the most racist people on this planet.

This is one of the main reasons the UK needs to ditch the EU, if it focused more on working with modern and strong commonwealth countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada and many more surely Russia wouldn't be parking it's ships in commonwealth countries water. I hope if Russia does enter Australia's waters without permission - They do something about it, board them boats and if they resist, sink them mother f**kers, 'The West' surely has your back.

[PulseEffect]

Tony Abbott is only being associated racist due to the whole ISIS issue which the media have made such a big deal of. Ultimately it's his government that is unpopular due to the 2014 budget.

[Archie]

On the other hand, Azerbajian bombs the Armenian helicopters...

[zipp3r]

http://mashable.com/2014/11/11/abbott-does-not-shirtfront-putin/

[Mikal]

http://mashable.com/2014/11/11/abbott-does-not-shirtfront-putin/

Oh god.

[PulseEffect]

http://mashable.com/2014/11/11/abbott-does-not-shirtfront-putin/

Lol...

[TiMoN]

ww4 is happening

you read it here first

[Mikal]

ww4 is happening

you read it here first

WW3? And I don't think it'd be a bad thing to be honest, stricter immigration laws would come into play.

[[NP]Monte Montague]

Economic War

Putin and his allies Kazakhstan & Azerbaijan (members of an EU of their own) are hoarding gold.
Telegraph claims they're gearing up for an economic war as the Russian currency becomes even more shittier tier due to illegal economic sanctions by the EU and US.

Some chaps are claiming he's horded as much as 55 tonnes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/11226240/Putin-stockpiles-gold-as-Russia-prepares-for-economic-war.html

[Mikal]

illegal economic sanctions by the EU and US.

Right, because putting sanctions on a country which is literally invading another is illegal..

[[NP]Monte Montague]

Right, because putting sanctions on a country which is literally invading another is illegal..

Such sanctions affect the people and not the regimes.
Also such sanctions should only be placed after it's been agreed in the UN.

Two imperialists such as the US and EU shouldn't have complete power to issue such sanctions.

The sanctions are also pointless, they do nothing but cause tension.

Russia is ready to sell oil drastically low. Its reserves can suffer this.
Any sanctions against Russia will effect the US and EU negatively.

As shown with the fruit crisis, the EU having to pay off farmers and having to give away apples.
Now I'd wish I'd of been offered one of those apples but meh.

Russia is capable of selling oil and gas at knock down prices which will cause intl oil and gas prices to plummet. Which no one really wants (we do, but not like this).

There is no hiding the fact that sanctions on Russia has harmed world trade.

"Cameron said: “We have to be clear what we are dealing with here is a large state bullying a smaller state." - bowl of double standards anyone?

EU And US sanctions simply aren't legal as they are just economic war play.  It's just the EU and US playing international police again whilst not putting such sanctions on Israel or Saudi Arabia (their ally's) which only further warrants the claims of illegal sanctions against Russia, one rule for one country but none for any other?.

Mikal, I'd suggest you not rely on the BBC to do your thinking for you.


For Crimea, Russia of-course did invade and take control.
But the people of Crimea wanted this.
Now look what's happening in East Ukraine, there is fighting, blood shed.
The rebels where not started by Russia, Russia may be supporting them but it did not create them.

It's like you're saying Argentina is right on the Falklands. Nope. Self determination all the way mate.
Majority of Crimeans want to be Russians, so they went and became Russians. We do not see reports of heavy gun fights or summary executions in Crimea to date, do we?

When Ukraine accepted the black sea fleet into Crimea they knew they had lost the territory.
If there was massive hatred against Russia / oppression by Russia then the people would protest against the black sea fleet base and not at the Pro Ukrainian Establishments .

Note, Russia did not sleigh the Ukrainians in Crimea when it invaded / liberated it. Something you'd of seen from the US in a similar scenario. "let's liberate them with air bombing!"

So in short, the sanctions are illegal.

[Mikal]

Such sanctions affect the people and not the regimes.
Also such sanctions should only be placed after it's been agreed in the UN.

Two imperialists such as the US and EU shouldn't have complete power to issue such sanctions.

The sanctions are also pointless, they do nothing but cause tension.

Russia is ready to sell oil drastically low. Its reserves can suffer this.
Any sanctions against Russia will effect the US and EU negatively.

As shown with the fruit crisis, the EU having to pay off farmers and having to give away apples.
Now I'd wish I'd of been offered one of those apples but meh.

Russia is capable of selling oil and gas at knock down prices which will cause intl oil and gas prices to plummet. Which no one really wants (we do, but not like this).

There is no hiding the fact that sanctions on Russia has harmed world trade.

"Cameron said: “We have to be clear what we are dealing with here is a large state bullying a smaller state." - bowl of double standards anyone?

EU And US sanctions simply aren't legal as they are just economic war play.  It's just the EU and US playing international police again whilst not putting such sanctions on Israel or Saudi Arabia (their ally's) which only further warrants the claims of illegal sanctions against Russia, one rule for one country but none for any other?.

Mikal, I'd suggest you not rely on the BBC to do your thinking for you.


For Crimea, Russia of-course did invade and take control.
But the people of Crimea wanted this.
Now look what's happening in East Ukraine, there is fighting, blood shed.
The rebels where not started by Russia, Russia may be supporting them but it did not create them.

It's like you're saying Argentina is right on the Falklands. Nope. Self determination all the way mate.
Majority of Crimeans want to be Russians, so they went and became Russians. We do not see reports of heavy gun fights or summary executions in Crimea to date, do we?

When Ukraine accepted the black sea fleet into Crimea they knew they had lost the territory.
If there was massive hatred against Russia / oppression by Russia then the people would protest against the black sea fleet base and not at the Pro Ukrainian Establishments .

Note, Russia did not sleigh the Ukrainians in Crimea when it invaded / liberated it. Something you'd of seen from the US in a similar scenario. "let's liberate them with air bombing!"

So in short, the sanctions are illegal.

They affect the people who then get mad and negatively effect the regimes that rule them meaning those regimes eventually have to give in or face massive protests and riots against them, that's just how politics and war works and it has been a somewhat effective way of getting Russia to comply sometimes during the Ukraine crisis, though they are clearly still sneaking stuff in on the sly which pretty much makes me think NATO really should be getting involved militarily.

And it's funny you mention oil because despite all the chaos Russia is causing with it prices in the UK still seem to be dropping, it may only be pennies but it is still dropping and even if it wasn't, it's time European countries invest in getting oil from countries besides Russia or even better, invest in green energy so that in them times when Russia put their finger up to Europe and stop oil flow or even higher prices, nobody is severely effected.

You take David Cameron's quote and call it double standards but who in modern history (say the last 100 years) has the UK actually bullied or even invaded? Instead it's the complete opposite, the UK ended it's colonialism and spread democracy to many countries which never had it, nobody can say the UK's war with Argentina was bullying as it was defending our own land, the wars in the Middle East were caused by the USA and the UK was dragged into them as an ally, and we didn't commit to them wars for a quick land grab either, the UK is a powerful country which has other than sanctions, largely sat back and watched the Ukraine crisis escalate, maybe the UK should for once lead the way and put it's own boots on the ground to help Ukraine get it's land back, I'm sure it's nothing a couple SAS teams couldn't handle. - Atleast it really would be fighting for peace and not for the benefit of the US for a change.

I see what you mean about Crimea, but Russia still invaded, there was no referendum before the invasion, there was only one after, Russia invaded when it was still Ukrainian territory, they should not have done that until Crimea voted to become part of Russia, though you have to remember that the only country which recognises Crimea as Russian territory is Russia itself, maps made in 2014 will still show it as part of Ukraine and governments around the world still regard it as part of Ukraine.

And another thing you have to remember is when the Black Sea Fleet was accepted into the Black Sea, Ukraine was being ruled by a pro-Russian government who was kicked out due to Ukraine's population wanting stronger ties with Europe and the EU.

The sanctions are harsh for Russian people, but not illegal.