I need help regarding some rules. (I can't understand them - Criminals/Cops)

[Huntsman]

I am sorry but I cannot just watch my group being accused of such nuisance.
First of all, our roleplays never take two hours to investigate someone, if the person is being cooperative. By being cooperative I do not mean going the way we want to, but by flowing with the roleplay. Some people just purposely stall the roleplay, disobeying the agents, such as refusing to being dragged when cuffed, trolling buth inside and outside of roleplay. The processing procedure usually takes five minutes, but with people like those it can rise up to half an hour. Most people think that by being asshats and troll endlessly they'll get us annoyed and we'll aparently let them go or skip the RP. I should warn you that this will never happen because one of the reasons we made it into the FBI is because we're patient. We will continue the investigation no matter what, and by being an ass/troll in a roleplay, you're the only one loosing time.
In same situations it's understandable that we indeed can get aggressive in roleplays. You cannot expect a person who's being treated like an ass to be very cool about it. So basically, you get the same quality roleplay as you roleplay with us.

[Alessandro]

And how exactly you guys roleplay? With /m1 and pulling guns out straight? Even Gulucans in their worst times had more RP than most of cops nowdays.. I wouldnt like to generalize, there is also cool and enthusiastic guys that actually put some effort in roleplay but majority is like that.. Most of you don't even check crimes, just shoot straight away.. I don't mind for that at all but when you complain at criminals it just becomes disgusting..

[Brian]

And the rule I'm talking about is the one where if we're sitting in a vehicle suspects, with other suspects and we have to abandon the vehicle because the script says we're no longer criminals it's just plain stupid and unbiased. Regarding the thing you said, losing suspection intentionaly,by being arrested just to re-join the Roleplay without the cops, that's another situation and it's not what I'm talking about here, nor on the first post.

This rule has been around for quite a long time, I understand it may be rather annoying now and then, having to leave your buddies behind, but that's how it has worked since 2011, at least.

[Huntsman]

And how exactly you guys roleplay? With /m1 and pulling guns out straight? Even Gulucans in their worst times had more RP than most of cops nowdays.. I wouldnt like to generalize, there is also cool and enthusiastic guys that actually put some effort in roleplay but majority is like that.. Most of you don't even check crimes, just shoot straight away.. I don't mind for that at all but when you complain at criminals it just becomes disgusting..

That is a very heavy accusation considering the fact we don't respond to suspects anymore unless directly asked for assistance or the crime is a federal one. We do not and never did support orange dot hunting policy.
Our roleplays are performed in our HQ. If you were ever detained by the FBI, you would know.

Yet, it is not us moaning and complaining. It has become rather a standart for criminal organisations to moan with creating a public topic of nothing but plain crapping on the ARPD whenever stuff does not go their way. And even in those cases the complaints are very rarely legit. They are not even about fair or unfair. It's about "I'M GONNA HAVE IT MY WAY NO MATTER WHAT." You do not see cops creating moaning topics whenever they get pointlessly deathmatched or have their roleplays ruined by criminal organisations on a daily basis. But just you dare to do something a criminal does not like, there's dozen of public topics shitting on the cops and how they're abusive and so on. So it's really questionable which side is being disgusting.

[Brian]

okay, so let's say I escape suspection (for aiding) successfully while driving my suspected (for killing cop) friend. no cops are in active pursuit, or at least not anywhere near us. am i still obligated to separate myself from him, or is this only applicable if there are police pursuing?

I as an admin/ cop won't force you to leave your friend if you are not actively being pursued by a cop. But i'd rather see you let him drive, so the situation occurs the 'wanted' person could start driving and you could 'leave' the situation soon after, without the cops being unsure of what happened, and re-suspecting you. This way there won't be an endless suspection cycle.

also, to FBI: it's no fun roleplaying with you guys when it seems your only motive behind the roleplay is to pursue a criminal case - even less fun when you folks actually get angry and aggressive outside of roleplay when the roleplay is not going the way you want... if you're not having fun roleplaying then I'm not either and won't trouble you any further.

Could say the same for a rather big amount of criminals. No matter what kind of roleplay, even if I make it go in to their favour, quite an amount of people start moaning because they just, do not want to role play.
I don't want to be normally patrolling, and then see a group of criminals drive-by my vehicle while I am not engaging them at all, just trying to have my own role-play.
I do not enjoy being killed by a maffia for a simple traffic stop I do to exercise some roleplay.

[Brian]

I am sorry but I cannot just watch my group being accused of such nuisance.
First of all, our roleplays never take two hours to investigate someone, if the person is being cooperative. By being cooperative I do not mean going the way we want to, but by flowing with the roleplay. Some people just purposely stall the roleplay, disobeying the agents, such as refusing to being dragged when cuffed, trolling buth inside and outside of roleplay. The processing procedure usually takes five minutes, but with people like those it can rise up to half an hour. Most people think that by being asshats and troll endlessly they'll get us annoyed and we'll aparently let them go or skip the RP. I should warn you that this will never happen because one of the reasons we made it into the FBI is because we're patient. We will continue the investigation no matter what, and by being an ass/troll in a roleplay, you're the only one loosing time.
In same situations it's understandable that we indeed can get aggressive in roleplays. You cannot expect a person who's being treated like an ass to be very cool about it. So basically, you get the same quality roleplay as you roleplay with us.

I have been in FBI investigations where I had to be there for 4+ hours, bringing up valid evidence against what I have done, and brought up valid items out of the constitution and minds weren't changed.
Long role-plays are fine but you have to give some way for the other party, you can't just start with Bob has committed a kidnap and that's all that matters we won't accept any counter evidence.

[Brian]

And how exactly you guys roleplay? With /m1 and pulling guns out straight? Even Gulucans in their worst times had more RP than most of cops nowdays.. I wouldnt like to generalize, there is also cool and enthusiastic guys that actually put some effort in roleplay but majority is like that.. Most of you don't even check crimes, just shoot straight away.. I don't mind for that at all but when you complain at criminals it just becomes disgusting..

Could say the same for quite an amount of criminals, just pull out their guns and shoot.
A few weeks ago I was doing ARA work, just minding my own business, got kidnapped by a group of 4 people for no reason, they knocked me out, starting arguing about how rich I was and killed me. Cops do not always 'enjoy' a role play either. And both parties have to work on their intensity of roleplays, we are all here to have fun, and we all have to work for that to work.

[Brian]

That is a very heavy accusation considering the fact we don't respond to suspects anymore unless directly asked for assistance or the crime is a federal one. We do not and never did support orange dot hunting policy.
Our roleplays are performed in our HQ - interrogations, investigations , suspect processing, border patrols, corruption investigations and so on.

I've seen different, even after the regulations have changed. Yes I have also reported such.

[Huntsman]

I've seen different, even after the regulations have changed. Yes I have also reported such.

If you have and reported it - then it most likely was dealt with. I've been away for quite some time and have just returned, and so far haven't seen anyone disobeying this procedure.

[Devin]

So the criminals vs cops topic gets turned to criminals vs FBI as far as I have read.

[RafaDK]

This rule has been around for quite a long time, I understand it may be rather annoying now and then, having to leave your buddies behind, but that's how it has worked since 2011, at least.

But you never had the obligation to leave  vehicle as soon as you lost suspection in order to not face a ban. You had the option to leave or to stay and be re-suspect for aiding your friends. Now if we do so we might as well get banned. SO no, this wasn't around since 2011.

[Devin]

But you never had the obligation to leave  vehicle as soon as you lost suspection in order to not face a ban. You had the option to leave or to stay and be re-suspect for aiding your friends. Now if we do so we might as well get banned. SO no, this wasn't around since 2011.

It's a rule to leave the vehicle however it's not bannable. It is punishable and if you refuse a tempban may be used as a last resort.
Keep in mind it's not a case of "Lose suspection > instantly jump out of the car", it's more like remove yourself from the situation when you get the chance to - you find another car or there is a way for you to get away from the current roleplay situation.

[RafaDK]

It's a rule to leave the vehicle however it's not bannable. It is punishable and if you refuse a tempban may be used as a last resort.
Keep in mind it's not a case of "Lose suspection > instantly jump out of the car", it's more like remove yourself from the situation when you get the chance to - you find another car or there is a way for you to get away from the current roleplay situation.

And how does that even make sense, when YOU were the first one to help me and/or Flash when we were suspects, and even in Gvardia times to aid your fellow family members.
As an ex-mafioso, you know how Mafia-related wars turn out to be set.
They/You plan a strike, execute it, succeed on some of your enemies, the rest leave as an evasive manouver. Thos, this will eventually lead to some of the members of your family to be suspected. So, basically what this rule brings is both the groups to split up between the suspects and the non-suspects. Giving advantage to the group that was primarily in defense but now is standing in the offensive side; because of a rule that does not allow you to aid your fellow members because a suspection script says so,the now on offensive Family willalready have the upper hand because at this point the suspects are the only ones alive in that RP scenario, since now suspection is taking place.

This rule has no fundamentation to be applied, it should be a matter of decision to leave as a unsuspected person, or remain in the vehicle to aid your friends. That's why you can easily be re-suspected. And in the end of the day you will be.

It's a rule to leave the vehicle however it's not bannable. It is punishable and if you refuse a tempban may be used as a last resort.
Keep in mind it's not a case of "Lose suspection > instantly jump out of the car", it's more like remove yourself from the situation when you get the chance to - you find another car or there is a way for you to get away from the current roleplay situation.

The police will be faster at suspecting than you to find a vehicle. And as it is common the administrators will always remain in the side of the Police and we will be the ones dealing with the fact that 'You should have left the vehicle not waiting to get re-sus' and punish us. This rule, as it is, makes no sense to anyone.
Even FBI members posted that here, and so did the majority of the criminals in Argonath.

[Brian]

And how does that even make sense, when YOU were the first one help me and/or Flash when we were suspects, and even in Gvardia times to aid your fellow family members.
As an ex-mafioso, you know how Mafia-related wars turn out to be set.
They/You plan a strike, execute it, succeed on some of your enemies, the rest leave. Thos, this will eventually lead to some of the members of your family to be suspected. So, basically what this rule brings is both the groups to split up between the suspects and the non-suspects. Giving advantage to the group that was primarily in defense but now in the offensive side because of a rule that does not allow you to aid your fellow members because a suspection script says so.

This rule has no fundamentation to be applied, it should be a matter of decision to leave as a unsuspected person, or remain in the vehicle to aid your friends. That's why you can easily be re-suspected. And in the end of the day.

The police will be faster at suspecting, once again, than you to find a vehicle. Thos as common the administrators will always remind in the side of the Police and we will be the ones dealing with the fact that 'You should have left the vehicle not waiting to get re-sus' and punish us. This rule, as it is, makes no sense to anyone.
Even FBI members posted that here, and so did the majority of the criminals in Argonath.

Ever thought of other ways of helping your friends?
I remember a while ago, the same situation occured, I explained a group of criminals (group closed but at that time it was) a way around it, another tactic how to assist your group/ allies without having to shoot/ drive them away. They used it several times, succesful.

What I am trying to say is, use tactics that are not as ordinary as the usual ones, think out of the box.
And if you have a chat with an admin, he won't just punish you straight away. He'll give you the chance to get out of the vehicle if you tell him you will at the nearest vehicle, matter of communication.

[RafaDK]

Ever thought of other ways of helping your friends?
I remember a while ago, the same situation occured, I explained a group of criminals (group closed but at that time it was) a way around it, another tactic how to assist your group/ allies without having to shoot/ drive them away. They used it several times, succesful.

What I am trying to say is, use tactics that are not as ordinary as the usual ones, think out of the box.
And if you have a chat with an admin, he won't just punish you straight away. He'll give you the chance to get out of the vehicle if you tell him you will at the nearest vehicle, matter of communication.

Insightful.
During a gang/war where you're being out-numbered by another group, and you kill some of the attackers in order to defend yourself, get suspected and the ones who didn't get suspected, have to abandon their family not only against the attacking family in the first place, you now have to fight the cops as well. So basically as your enemies grow, your numbers lower.

Even in a Roleplay where you manage to get some of your members to eventually kidnap a member of a rival family, a cop sees it, suspects those who firstly performed the kidnap, you are no longer to aid them with it, because you are not a suspect.

This rule is not only affecting the Criminal/Cop RP. This is also affecting the rivalry between Mafias Roleplay.