The New Era

[TruthSvensson]

Anyone remember "Star Wars Galaxies"? The only MMORPG that focused on role play (at least at the beginning before Sony took over and turned into a shitty game)
Most of the things were made by players and sold by players. Even the cities were made by players. People made their shops and stood there and others came to buy from them.
What I mean is - and I know it would be hard to implement and even harder to make players get used to- make people produce the items themselves and sell them. Make people get hungry and if they want to eat, they need to eat it at a restaurant. So we'll have farmers who produce the food, truckers who deliver the food to the restaurants, chefs who prepare the food, waiters who deliver the foods to the people.
Or weapon factories ran by players so players will produce the weapons and sell them to ammunations, where it's sold by other players.
I think these examples are enough to get my point. This would make a great improvement on economics system at least.

But in Argonath we used to not need any of these, whenever a restaurant, a bar or any kind of place were opened, people used to go there and RP any of these stuff without need of a script, all we needed was /me and maybe some anims. I remember back in 2007 or 2008, when Dragons yakuza was active, whenever the "Dragons Bistro" was open at Bay side, people used to drive there and everyone role played there. When I was Jack_Dragons, I remember a lot of people working at the kitchen, waiters serving people (one of them was myself).
Or when I was Jack_Stracci, we had a hotel and people used to come and stay there just for the sake of role playing.
These are just only a few examples of what we used to do in Argonath.

I know this seems like nostalgia, but these were the things made me play Argonath more than anything else. Now I don't even know what people do in Argonath.

[AK47]

stop quoting what everyone else says directly after they post, a high postammount doesn't give you a bigger penis irl

[Alexander_Rijav]

stop quoting what everyone else says directly after they post, a high postammount doesn't give you a bigger penis irl

That's the simplest way to agree with something.

[Jingle]

Anyone remember "Star Wars Galaxies"? The only MMORPG that focused on role play (at least at the beginning before Sony took over and turned into a shitty game)
Most of the things were made by players and sold by players. Even the cities were made by players. People made their shops and stood there and others came to buy from them.
What I mean is - and I know it would be hard to implement and even harder to make players get used to- make people produce the items themselves and sell them. Make people get hungry and if they want to eat, they need to eat it at a restaurant. So we'll have farmers who produce the food, truckers who deliver the food to the restaurants, chefs who prepare the food, waiters who deliver the foods to the people.
Or weapon factories ran by players so players will produce the weapons and sell them to ammunations, where it's sold by other players.
I think these examples are enough to get my point. This would make a great improvement on economics system at least.

But in Argonath we used to not need any of these, whenever a restaurant, a bar or any kind of place were opened, people used to go there and RP any of these stuff without need of a script, all we needed was /me and maybe some anims. I remember back in 2007 or 2008, when Dragons yakuza was active, whenever the "Dragons Bistro" was open at Bay side, people used to drive there and everyone role played there. When I was Jack_Dragons, I remember a lot of people working at the kitchen, waiters serving people (one of them was myself).
Or when I was Jack_Stracci, we had a hotel and people used to come and stay there just for the sake of role playing.
These are just only a few examples of what we used to do in Argonath.

I know this seems like nostalgia, but these were the things made me play Argonath more than anything else. Now I don't even know what people do in Argonath.

You make a solid point, and you're right. Looking back 8-7 years ago, most of the players were fine with the script as it is and didn't care much about advancement. The question is why? We know there's a lot of variables at play here, age and maturity possibly playing a role. Eight years ago, you were 14, I was 13, Que was a little older at 17 and the majority of veterans/players (excluding the owners) who are still here were in that age group. We were teenagers with a different mindset, we were too young to judge, and as we developed we began to think differently. It's a natural part of growth.
Another likely reason is the general advancement of the clients/servers at the time. I started out in 2008 on MTA:VC and I don't recall there being anything other than /me. The whole environment was closed and the script was a very superficial mIRC one. You're forever stuck as either a sailor, robber or a cop. Did I have fun there? Sure I did, it was the best multiplayer experience I had at the time. Would I still enjoy roleplaying there like before? Sadly not, because I found far better options to suit my style.
The Truth is, people's tastes change and that includes their gaming preferences. Would we like it if the old car system (where barely any vehicle of the same model was owned) came back? Probably not. Why would we? We can own any car now; it would be silly to go back. The same goes for other script improvements.

You can't recognize the server to be the way it was anymore because that's how it should be. We've been following a cycle of progress, although subtle, since day 1. Right now we're at a point where a large majority of the members prefer a more serious approach to improving the script in regards to roleplay, hence the new drug scripts and the change to a more controlled SAPD. The management is also taking an active part in the changes, with more to come. The transition is in increments, because going too forward too quick might overwhelm the players since these are major changes, but what I most certain would be a mistake is going backwards. We can never do that.

Onwards and upwards.

[Jeremy.]

Let's see.

[Cofiliano]

Ok, back to the positive side of this new era:

I'm pretty sure that would get you a ban for DM if it was in main server  even though it shouldn't.

This.

Not if you have a roleplay reason

Yeah you would.

 Every roleplay reason is being called 'not good enough'. Basicly if you didn't get shot, you can't open fire or else ban with a review for a month and the question do you understand our rules. And that's if an admin would actually ask you do you have a roleplay reason, cause most of the time they would instantly ban you cause you didn't had 'roleplay interaction prior to shooting', as shown in the video.(they open'd fire on the rival gang without a word right)

This is a big problem that needs to discussed, and set exact rules on combat.

Because people are bad girling and using the word 'DMing' too much, its being over used, most of shootouts that happens between groups are being put into that category, and admins are literally looking for any small detail that's missing, to use as a reason to ban.

Making fun of reasons such as: "hur dur he shot my member i go kill him with my boys" done by admins, isn't really helping either, because you might not like it, but that's more then a valid roleplay reason to actually do it.
Cause that's how things work in real life among criminal groups.And that should be the only way of judging is something a DMing or not.

[Haythem]

Ok, back to the positive side of this new era:

Looks like it was all a set up between both sides, like you/they were expecting the shootout. Could've been nice if it was spontaneous.

[Cofiliano]

Looks like it was all a set up between both sides, like you/they were expecting the shootout. Could've been nice if it was spontaneous.

Its a video, so yeah, but as you can see from the video the gang that got jumped wasn't really expecting the shootout, they were chilling around, fixing car and shit.

One more add up to my previous reply: If you can't handle being jumped by your rivals, you shouldn't be a criminal.
Be a regular citizen who's gonna call cops when he's getting attacked by someone, or be a cop.

Not spam the admins with 'OMG THEY ARE DMING ME COME FAST BAN BAN  BAN'. This kind of guys should be punished for false reporting, and admins that are  judging most of the things as DMing, should get taught to make a difference.
Because alot of them used to do the same while they weren't admins, so they think that's the criteria to call something Dming.

Of course, they must have a roleplay reason, or if not, a roleplay interaction before doing it, and admins should only look out on returning after death, or some bug abuse (c-bugging, aimbots, re-healing in combat etc).

[Acika]

Couldnt agree more with Cofi about the whole interpretation of DM and combat situations.

Here's my experience. In 2010, when i created my family, we were like 7-8 and we were daily attacked by three big mafias (Corleone, Sforza, Ancelotti) who were united against my group at the time and my group was on it's own, no allies. Stronger groups, united, were attempting to shut down newly created ones which can be considered bad for the server itself. They failed in their intentions and they were all defeated on the end, but many groups didnt survive their demonstration of force. When someone got stronger than them they started bad girling around how it's all DM.

Because of that experience i have never attacked newly created groups, i was there to help them. Most importantly i have invented a rule for my family - "Never attack first" which was applied on my biggest enemies too. Meaning that when i was attacking i always had a roleplay reason.

For better future of Argonath, it's important to discuss that. Everything is called DM and most of those things are not even DM. Admins should follow a rule (which has to be created) when judging the situation, not to explicate combat situation as they want, often being very biased.

[Que]

Let's not forget 80% of the death matching on the server is death matching, which also led to everyone crying because they were killed five times earlier during that hour because of someone having a trololol-time on TS with his friends or someone who didn't even know this was a roleplay server.

I do get the point of yours, but remember that the amount of killing and non-characteristic gameplay is the reason behind it all. No one gives a fuck about themselves and they are unafraid of everything which leads to the super cocky attitude. If we would straighten up shit, less death matching will occur, and then once another rival gang/family attacks one another, it wouldn't be such an annoying and mood destroying shootout.

For example: Inferno 9 were our (58th) sworn enemy and it always came to that point when the attacks hit approximately 25 times a day and it was not what you expect of a gang war. You do expect to get into shootouts and brawls, but it should be decently good for both parts and not blatant DM just because you are bored.

[Johan_S]

Not if you have a roleplay reason

If you interact just like in video you would get punished even if you have very strong roleplay reason: i'm speaking from personal experience that we've got punished for this typical shootout, not only go there and shoot, but even informing the enemy that they will be punished for plenty reasons.

In main server works like this: we are obligated to have long long conversations, doing around 40 commands of /me, transport the situation in another place and probably if we both(groups) do not find any possible agreement to not go further in violence, the brawl is legalized and we can shoot. Otherwise if we act like in video we will be punished for lack of roleplay before shoot out or simply DM.

[Rusty]

In main server works like this: we are obligated to have long long conversations, doing around 40 commands of /me, transport the situation in another place and probably if we both(groups) do not find any possible agreement to not go further in violence, the brawl is legalized and we can shoot. Otherwise if we act like in video we will be punished for lack of roleplay before shoot out or simply DM.

Yeah we made it so you must use /me forty times and talk for twenty minutes before you can do anything.  No we just changed the rules so people are obligated to roleplay at every opportunity not run away like a dick when approached or instantly shooting when a cop pulls you over.  Players wanted that changed, so it happened.

As for the video, me myself I wouldn't mind gang shit happens or used to happen like that around here.  If no one from then going to complain then I ain't going to bother myself with trouble.  Have fun onto next person to spectate.

[Devin]

Off-topic posts have been cleared, this is not the place to have a jab at staff nor is it appreciated when people are here trying to make a difference.

[Johan_S]

Yeah we made it so you must use /me forty times and talk for twenty minutes before you can do anything.  No we just changed the rules so people are obligated to roleplay at every opportunity not run away like a dick when approached or instantly shooting when a cop pulls you over.  Players wanted that changed, so it happened.

As for the video, me myself I wouldn't mind gang shit happens or used to happen like that around here.  If no one from then going to complain then I ain't going to bother myself with trouble.  Have fun onto next person to spectate.

If no one complains for sure that you would even know what's going on because other problems will occur in another side of the city which need your support. But the actual mindset is that no one accepts to lose so there always will be moanings.

Regarding to "cops" and "being sniped for refusal of ticket" I will be patient for new reforms of SAPD and after will revert with one comment. If i speak now about cops we might go again out off topic, but since we are hoping for "new era" me and everyone must wait for transition which is meant to come naturally after everyone's effort.

[Cofiliano]

No we just changed the rules so people are obligated to roleplay at every opportunity not run away like a dick when approached or instantly shooting when a cop pulls you over.  Players wanted that changed, so it happened.

As for the video, me myself I wouldn't mind gang shit happens or used to happen like that around here.  If no one from then going to complain then I ain't going to bother myself with trouble.  Have fun onto next person to spectate.

That's also a problem, sportsmanship. But we can't relay and risk being banned if a  rival who got mad for dying gonna be a sportsman or not. Even the mature, veteran, and awesome roleplayers, can be crying a river and spaming the admin pm, even tho he got no right to do that.

I don't know who's the players who wanted the changed, but I understand their perspective, and probably frustraition, cause alot of people were being triggerhappy and just went in wars 10 times per day, without any real roleplay reason.

So I think there should be some 'middle', compromise solution set by rules, that wouldn't suffocate criminal shootouts and roleplay in general among criminals, nor would allow people to plain DM 24/7 without any reason.

Maybe the solution is in having a roleplay reason as a needed condition(basicly continuing the roleplay that was triggered earlier), or, if there's none, then having a decent roleplay interaction prior to shooting(starting a new roleplay ).

Basicly, one of this conditions=Legit situation. Not requiring both conditions to make it legit.