This is the problem.

[Gandalf]

Are you intent on destroying the community you pay for? By the looks of it you are.
Thanks for the rope though, it has helped me get water out of my well for the past few months rather successfully.
With that said it has also led to the community growing from the stagnant state it was in after the last "team" left.

If you would like it back I am sure we can work something out.

Look up the expression and you might understand waht I mean there.

[Gandalf]

I guess same faith will happen like happen to AB-Playground community. Argonath may vanish, but people will gathering up and recreate something new and worth-full.

Remember the times you and the rest of Mightiest Swedes made up your own community because it didn't go the way you and your buddies wanted it to go!? Do you feel us now?

Do not misrepresent the story. On AB the owner was in course of events, just he listened to power-hungry leadrers who did not listen to the players. Here it seems the leaders try to listen but the effect is doubtful...

[Gandalf]

@Gandalf

This is a joke. We look like kids... we're here fighting with each other. We're suppose to be a team, this isn't a team. You won't answer my Skype messages for two days... yet you have people here taking "Gandalf vrs HQ vrs Players vrs Veterans" side.

It isn't the mature thing to do... why don't you get on TeamSpeak with us and resolve this.

You know well enough that Skye is not the place to contact me nowadays. Takes too much time when I am stressed with other work.

[Gandalf]

No, that didn't work out too well for Jaaskaa last time. Lets not get into that.


What many find an issue is that even although they spend time and effort into the community by creating idea's and attempting to establish something within the community it nevertheless immediately gets denied because it does not fit or suit the vision that was once, many years ago, created as it back then suited the community. Many, including SA:MP HQ team, believe that the vision is outdated and no longer fits the community as it currently is. (This does not only mean SA:MP, but also its other divisions ... don't forget that SA:MP has always been the biggest division on Argonath and has influenced the community to what it is today.) Then you come in, even although you have been inactive for a long period of time, not contributing to the community other than paying the monthly bills and showing up during a shitstorm, and you just flag the constructive ideas of those who have contributed a lot to the community lately by spending their time and effort creating ideas and working things out in-game.

You're ignoring other HQ members when they need you, you've not been there impenting changes when it was necessarily and you remain stuck in this old fashioned ideology that does no longer work in Argonath RPG 2015. Its good to see the SA:MP HQ Team has a different ''vision'' and infact implented some changes that would never have happened if it wasn't for the old team being removed leaving the community.

Once again there is nowhere that I have said ideas should not be tried or used. All I have been doing in the beginning ofthe topic is put forward the possible problems.
That a number of people react to this as that I am stopping the ideas is simply a strawman. They seemly can not bring constructive replies so they start avoiding the topic and question, derailing it by blaming my inactivity instead of trying to bring a solution.
I am in full support of HQ and their efforts, just wih both HQ and player to work together on possible problems that the implementation of certain rules can bring. I may e inactive, but there is a reason we did things how we did them, this is brought forwardto players as well as HQ so that if a decision is taken to go forward or not at least everyone has had their say and its not blamed on the Vision or anything else that had no part in it.

[Pizza4_Games]

You know well enough that Skye is not the place to contact me nowadays. Takes too much time when I am stressed with other work.

Contacting you on skype and you not responding isn't really a problem to me, because i know you will respone afterwards also i know you have some stuff you have to deal with irl so :3

[Gandalf]

We intend to do so, we have not yet been instructed by Gandalf otherwise.

And I do not intend to interfere in it, just now and then give food for thought.

[clancker]

The way i see it right now, bunch of people that lead the community jump and fight with each other like morons over and over, passing the ball to each other and blaming it to the others, however this is not the way to deal with the problem. In the one hand are the people that want change, but before you people jump in here with bunch of requests think first, there are much questions about making those changes that you want, it's not impossible too. However the things you have to think about is, how those changes will affect the community, how they will be surely enforced, how they will be added at first, thats the point after all. Sorry for the strong language.

[Pizza4_Games]

The way i see it right now, bunch of people that lead the community jump and fight with each other like morons over and over, passing the ball to each other and blaming it to the others, however this is not the way to deal with the problem. In the one hand are the people that want change, but before you people jump in here with bunch of requests think first, there are much questions about making those changes that you want, it's not impossible too. However the things you have to think about is, how those changes will affect the community, how they will be surely enforced, how they will be added at first, thats the point after all. Sorry for the strong language.

I 100% Agree wid ya

[Gandalf]

Contacting you on skype and you not responding isn't really a problem to me, because i know you will respone afterwards also i know you have some stuff you have to deal with irl so :3

You were lucky, it can take weeks sometimes.

[Pizza4_Games]

You were lucky, it can take weeks sometimes.

Well Mission completed!  now i can spam your skyupe <3

[Axison]

I 100% Agree wid ya

Can you stop posting please?

[Gandalf]

The way i see it right now, bunch of people that lead the community jump and fight with each other like morons over and over, passing the ball to each other and blaming it to the others, however this is not the way to deal with the problem. In the one hand are the people that want change, but before you people jump in here with bunch of requests think first, there are much questions about making those changes that you want, it's not impossible too. However the things you have to think about is, how those changes will affect the community, how they will be surely enforced, how they will be added at first, thats the point after all. Sorry for the strong language.

That indeed is the point, and that is what I have been trying to do before everyone got scared I might interfere.
I am used to look at something from all sides, which is needed because people rarely choose to follow exactly what you intended them to follow.
Every rule and script has to be checked and secured for abuse from both players and administration, it has to be clear when someone abuses it on how and by who it was done.

[Marcel]

In my opinion, the following stuff should be done:

Leadership
The current leadership is vague. Do we even have community leaders? If yes, what may they do? Are server staff supposed to listen to them?

Let's go over the organisation and HQ to clearly review the structure and adjust if necessary.

Development
This is fine currently. A clear roadmap exists and solid progress is made. Maybe bring a little more progress indicators to the table. I know Teddy has a to-do manager in use somewhere. Use it!

Roleplay
My biggest concern is roleplay, with the government in particular. There's no clear leadership causing many initiatives to be frustrated or end prematurely. What we need is the Provisional Parliament to be enacted as lawmakers. There is a room for political roleplay as time has shown again and again. I really cannot wait for a parliment debate in-game!

On the other hand, also the Courts need an update. It should not be judges who make the laws either. Speaking of judges, progress is too slow and the RS4 era highly active courts have come to a slow ever since the courts were "closed". Appoint a new head Judge if you have to, but make sure it gets active. There's loads of cases to be handled, especially with an updated constitution!

With a new constitution, we come to law enforcement. It obviously needs clear leadership, guidance, laws and regulations. Make sure they get that!

With these basic changes (there are obviously much more!), we should be able to get this community back on track. As always, the main focus should be introducing more or new roleplay!

[Gandalf]

In my opinion, the following stuff should be done:

Leadership
The current leadership is vague. Do we even have community leaders? If yes, what may they do? Are server staff supposed to listen to them?

Let's go over the organisation and HQ to clearly review the structure and adjust if necessary.

Development
This is fine currently. A clear roadmap exists and solid progress is made. Maybe bring a little more progress indicators to the table. I know Teddy has a to-do manager in use somewhere. Use it!

Roleplay
My biggest concern is roleplay, with the government in particular. There's no clear leadership causing many initiatives to be frustrated or end prematurely. What we need is the Provisional Parliament to be enacted as lawmakers. There is a room for political roleplay as time has shown again and again. I really cannot wait for a parliment debate in-game!

On the other hand, also the Courts need an update. It should not be judges who make the laws either. Speaking of judges, progress is too slow and the RS4 era highly active courts have come to a slow ever since the courts were "closed". Appoint a new head Judge if you have to, but make sure it gets active. There's loads of cases to be handled, especially with an updated constitution!

With a new constitution, we come to law enforcement. It obviously needs clear leadership, guidance, laws and regulations. Make sure they get that!

With these basic changes (there are obviously much more!), we should be able to get this community back on track. As always, the main focus should be introducing more or new roleplay!

Leadership:
With as good as all community leaders inactive or retired, it is up to the server leaders to form and manage their team including finding replacements should they wish to retire. In cases that are involving more than one server the leaders should get together and make a joint decision. For emergencies I am usually available, as for the hardware this is currently in the able hands of Teddy, who does need some assistance.

Development:
After the recent change everyone seems positive about the development, at least on SA:MP No need for changes.

Roleplay:
The changes that are made by HQ need to settle before we can judge them. As for government (and civilian in general) roleplay we have been wanting this for ages, unfortunately it has always gotten stuck at the point where responsibilities and powers come in to play.
In our idea the government would actually get the possibility to do something, however this must be separated from rules and admin work.
Also government would require civilians, and one of the largest issues is the lack of those.

A constitution and laws should be clear, but also not conflict with the rules. This has been an issue with bith making laws and regulations, and has led to a lot of frustration in the past. Also a constitution and derivate laws should not become filled with unneeded rules that try to implement every situation. As recently discussed, the Court cases are to provide explanation the law should be short and applicable universally.

[Marcel]

The changes that are made by HQ need to settle before we can judge them. As for government (and civilian in general) roleplay we have been wanting this for ages, unfortunately it has always gotten stuck at the point where responsibilities and powers come in to play.
In our idea the government would actually get the possibility to do something, however this must be separated from rules and admin work.
Also government would require civilians, and one of the largest issues is the lack of those.

A constitution and laws should be clear, but also not conflict with the rules. This has been an issue with bith making laws and regulations, and has led to a lot of frustration in the past. Also a constitution and derivate laws should not become filled with unneeded rules that try to implement every situation. As recently discussed, the Court cases are to provide explanation the law should be short and applicable universally.

Seperation from rules and admin work - yes, a parliament should be strictly focussed on making and amending laws.
Lack of civilians - no, there's a group of five already that have formed a parliament, and at least 10 others that are looking to run a political campaign.
Court/constitution - The constitution is in urgent need of a rewrite. I'm not talking about changing the basic ideas or rights, but more in terms of an update to present date. Also, a lot of things conflict in the current laws or is outdated/RS4 era.