The moaning ends now

[Julio.]

This sounds like a better plan in my eyes. Active players know what they talk about, a moan somewhere won't do any harm. People constantly moaning with no solutions, inactive players bullshitting and players continiously opening new moan topics are the worst part. No need to disallow suggestion topics, but moan and complain topics should be removed immediatly to avoid shitstorms.

Indeed, though I am guilty myself of speaking on criminal topics I'm likely 3+ years out of date on... I think we should all spend time role playing the different roles to see how it goes. Would be interesting to see the FBI, SAPDs opinion on the difficulty of being a criminal after they've spent a couple of hours off duty (and of course vice versa)

[Mikhail Zakhaev]

It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.

This is my main concern as well, and to be honest, I don't think there's an easy solution for this problem.

[Teddy]

I'd like to think most of the people who moan do have some good reason for it. (At least from their point of view). They shouldn't be criticising the hard work put in by the development team, but at the same time people should be able to state their own views.

It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.

A few grey areas to be addressed, but otherwise, fair enough.

I will reiterate: this is for the people who don't do it for a good reason. There is undeniably a population here which exists which are just a cancer. They show up just to feed into the drama which exists and have no intention of caring about a solution. Those people will standout clear for those of us who understand people.

There is indeed grey areas and we will indeed screw up here and there. We will get it wrong more than once. We will however work to rectify those incidents and people's willingness to talk after will be a clear demonstration of their actual intentions.

This sounds like a better plan in my eyes. Active players know what they talk about, a moan somewhere won't do any harm. People constantly moaning with no solutions, inactive players bullshitting and players continiously opening new moan topics are the worst part. No need to disallow suggestion topics, but moan and complain topics should be removed immediatly to avoid shitstorms.

As is, that is the point of this. Perhaps my wording was a bit poor. We are in no way going to restrict people from suggesting improvements, telling us what they don't like, telling us if they disagree with a choice, or in absolutely anyway stop people from being unable to voice their opinions.

[Teddy]

This is my main concern as well, and to be honest, I don't think there's an easy solution for this problem.

There is no system that can ever exist that would be 100% however a solution was needed. Since my only other solution at this point was to leave. An option I can still consider if people would prefer that over my simple wish to have more constructive conversions. I don't need to be here. I have had offers of paid positions in other gaming communities but I've repeatedly turned them down because I care about this one. I want to help make this one better. If it turns that's not what people want, I will gladly accept and resign. It's this or I am out. I am not dealing with it anymore. I cannot deal with it anymore.

[TiMoN]

ACCIDENTAL DOUBLE POST SRY

[Norrage]

As is, that is the point of this. Perhaps my wording was a bit poor. We are in no way going to gestrikt people from suggesting improvements, telling us what they don't like, telling us if they disagree with a choice, or in absolutely anyway stop people from being unable to voice their opinions.

Was quite concerned about that indeed. Thanks for clearifying atleast. I still suggest to remove moan topics like we had in SA:MP general for the last 4/5 months. People who want to moan, should do it via PM or make a topic with solutions. Not just lock moan topics, but remove them.

[Julio.]

There is no system that can ever exist that would be 100% however a solution was needed. Since my only other solution at this point was to leave. An option I can still consider if people would prefer that over my simple wish to have more constructive conversions. I don't need to be here. I have had offers of paid positions in other gaming communities but I've repeatedly turned them down because I care about this one. I want to help make this one better. If it turns that's not what people want, I will gladly accept and resign. It's this or I am out. I am not dealing with it anymore. I cannot deal with it anymore.

If you found it easier, you could potentially recruit a few more forum moderators to clean the place up a bit so you don't have to. I mean at the end of the day, you're developing, coming up with new ideas and being webmaster. If people cannot relay feedback nicely and you're sick of it, let somebody else deal with it. Could be easier.

[Teddy]

Was quite concerned about that indeed. Thanks for clearifying atleast. I still suggest to remove moan topics like we had in SA:MP general for the last 4/5 months. People who want to moan, should do it via PM or make a topic with solutions. Not just lock moan topics, but remove them.

Yes, moan topics will be purged from the viewing range. Another fault of moaning topics is we want to expand and bring in new players. If you are a new player and you join the forums. You see 3+ different topics of nothing but complaining and nobody actually being constructive, is that really a community you want to be apart of? Probably not.

[TiMoN]

It's difficult to administer this way. Depending on the mood of the banning administrator or lack of context this could result in individuals receiving a ban who perhaps wouldn't have done if the administrator had a better day at work or some other reason.

Which is why servers create a clear list of rules and outlined punishments and leave little for admin's decision. This rules out many cases of "biased admins" and provides simpler enviornmwnts for players and admins.
Do this = Get this
Admin's "friend" does this = Gets same thing

I have recommended this a while back and it got implemented for bans, can't see why we shouldn't have it for other punishments.

[Teddy]

If you found it easier, you could potentially recruit a few more forum moderators to clean the place up a bit so you don't have to. I mean at the end of the day, you're developing, coming up with new ideas and being webmaster. If people cannot relay feedback nicely and you're sick of it, let somebody else deal with it. Could be easier.

The issue with this is I want to be involved. I am not like previous teams where ideas were mostly ignored. If you could see topic views you'd see I've read every single suggestion, every single complaint, and every post on them. You wouldn't've seen that with prior teams, in fact I can say with absolutely certainty the percentage of read was significantly less than 50% of suggestions, complaints, and responses. I don't want it filtered either, I don't want someone else to decide what I should and shouldn't read. I want read it all. I want to know what you guys like, I want to know what you guys don't like. That's the only way I feel I can do my job best. Anything less and I am not doing the best I can do with my position.

[Teddy]

Which is why servers create a clear list of rules and outlined punishments and leave little for admin's decision. This rules out many cases of "biased admins" and provides simpler enviornmwnts for players and admins.
Do this = Get this
Admin's "friend" does this = Gets same thing

I have recommended this a while back and it got implemented for bans, can't see why we shouldn't have it for other punishments.

This is not a system I would be against. Undeniably there are people who factor in relation into their punishments. It's not fair and it's not right.

[Khm]

I'd suggest hiding all staff team identity IG to "Admin/Mod/Dev 1,2,..,n" etc to avoid that "biased admins" problem. Admins will be more relaxed into punishing (they wouldn't be scared to punish their friends) and players won't know who the hell punished/helped them. Plus I still ask to strongly focus on hearing out everyone before doing any kind of action against a person or a group instead just getting one sided story with biased manipulated evidences and create more heat against staff team.

/me heads back to his cave again resuming the long inactivity.

[Norrage]

I'd suggest hiding all staff team identity IG to "Admin/Mod/Dev 1,2,..,n" etc to avoid that "biased admins" problem. Admins will be more relaxed into punishing (they wouldn't be scared to punish their friends) and players won't know who the hell punished/helped them. Plus I still strongly ask to focus on hearing out everyone before doing any kind of action against a person or a group instead just getting one sided story with biased manipulated evidences and create more heat against staff team.

/me heads back to his cave again resuming the long inactivity.

What if you do not understand the punishment? How will you contact the anonymous staff member?

[Ramo_Hawk]

Plus I still ask to strongly focus on hearing out everyone before doing any kind of action against a person or a group instead just getting one sided story with biased manipulated evidences and create more heat against staff team.

Happens too much and I honestly consider this as the main source that's creating the moaning and complaints.

[Julio.]

It's all about context, discussion and clarification.

For example, I was banned a long time back for "weapon hacking." I hadn't actually done it, and had no idea why I was banned for this, as weapons had randomly spawned on my player ingame. The banning admin did not discuss anything with me, and banned me without any investigation. A long while afterwards I was unbanned, and the a few months later it was revealed that the ASI/CLEO modification had a bug which caused this sometimes. This was a mod allowed on Argonath... had the admin have actually bothered discussing this with me before banning then they'd have found out sooner. This happened whilst I had been playing on the server for a few years, so as you can imagine I was pretty shocked that the admin hadn't PM'd me to ask what was happening.

The point is, yep, people should be punished the same, without bias, but also based on context (the player being banned was a regular), extra discussion should take place to clarify the situation. Or else you end up alienating community members.