FLA vs ARPD - Let's talk

[Vaeldious]

I fail to find a valid reason with a proper roleplay based motive against myself for you to shoot me down. I have no less authority to patrol the air at Angel Pine than I do in for example Fort Carson and Los Santos.

Except that Lawdogs arent exactly welcomed in Fort Carson by the Nomads.


More on point though, the whole FLA vs SAPD has become a daily "battle" for both sides. Granted, I support FLA for its unique group accompishments, and it brings more players into the server, the question is at what cost? Sure, it's nice to see 50+ players online, but what does that say about Argonath if half the server is participating in TDM? I say Flint Deserves its independence but cannot be enforced...and this is where we have an immovable object (FLA) and an unstoppable force (SAPD).

Simply, I would suggest structured rules of group wars. While two groups are at a "war" status with eachother, players may not return to the fight after death until the "war" is over, and a "cooldown" period after the conflict ends, say a week or so afterwards. This limits the time an engagement can be sustained by either side into an endless daily shootout, and also gives the players a chance to develop RPs from unique situations like this that otherwise would never be had.

[Devin]

I do hope people have seen the change made here;

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116578.msg1833491#msg1833491

The Court hereby revokes the conjunction, rendering it null and void effective immediately.

[Fuzzy]

More on point though, the whole FLA vs SAPD has become a daily "battle" for both sides. Granted, I support FLA for its unique group accompishments, and it brings more players into the server, the question is at what cost? Sure, it's nice to see 50+ players online, but what does that say about Argonath if half the server is participating in TDM?

Indeed, it's starting to be boring when 90% of law enforcement sit at Flint Toll or Angel Pine and FLA members (around 5-10?) that are online just to fight eachother, leaving like the rest of 50 players being alone/bored as hell in the other cities because they have almost nobody to interact with.

[Drix]

Even tho we do not use public affairs as S.A.P.D to explain our side from the law enfrocement and we're always guilty for our way we react to this group, i'd like to say a few words in this topic. First of it i'm glad that Eyemas did this topic but at the same time i'm disappointed as the leaders of F.L.A failed to make one of it or at-least try to approach diplomatically in-game in order to maintain this issue and take responsibility over their actions. Maybe this is the reason why they are counted as a terrorist group, because they have nothing to loose, they use maximum ammunation and people (/cb COME ANGEL LETS KILL COPPAS)) to finish one  goal - Kill as much law enforcement as possible and turn this server into a TDM. Thing is i agree with Eyemas, as much as Mikal can brag ppl are joining Argonath just for FLA (or other mafia members come to angel pine just for fla) some people are leaving this server just because of FLA, some are sick of this server because of FLA, why? Because we cannot enjoy what we used to do(personally speaking)... instead of me worrying on leading and developing my department, creating random scenarios in-game for my Officers.. I need to worry about gathering units into responding a group of terrorist who have "executed" one of my officers and are barricaded inside an interior with C4. I gotta worry about setting tasks forces, patrols, border checks in order to prevent SAPD Officers being killed just because they enter that area. I'm getting sick of this, i didn't sign up for this.. i didn't sign up to handle people who have no idea on leadership or maintaining reputation of their own group.

What this means for FLA:
We will now need to kill any law enforcement that comes near us ASAP to prevent them calling backup, since we will not be removing our masks under any circumstances, so, all this new law has done is set the stage for alot of shootouts, gg.

And I don't know why you think we'd close down, I personally have nothing to lose and will respond to any court case against me with "I do not live in your jurisdiction", and if I do get cash forcefully removed from my account due to a court case, well, good luck, I only have 4k, all of my stuff is invested in FLA and don't plan on earning anything anytime soon, damn, I'm pretty untouchable now that I think about it! But sure I'll happily serve "100 years" in jail if it makes you guys happy.

In the end though, I don't see how we can be considered a terrorist organisation, since the only people causing shootouts are law enforcement by approaching us in the first place, this is like some American Govt BS right here, why can't we just have peace and freedom?
Oh great idea! Lead an army against my own group!

The only solution for this is for you to resign from FLA Mikal, a true leader does not speak like this. I look at Hubbe and i look at you i see a big difference. A leader who has nothing to earn, a leader who does not plan, a leader who has nothing to loose is not a leader... all you are doing is gathering up people, getting them killed, and in the end what are you winning? Nothing. A leader is best when people barely know he exists, he's patient and focuses more in a certain goal and vision instead of focusing into a war. Why can't you have peace and freedom? Because you execute Officers adverse it on the news, you approach law with R.P.G.S on public areas, you attack their roadblocks with your men, you take zero responsibility for your actions, always winning in your mind, always fooling people.

What caused all chaos and rivalry between FLA and law enforcement was what happened at LS Bank, at first it was a protest lead by farmers against taxes and police driving on the crops in Flint County, we were peacefully protesting, using /riot whilst stood on our tractors at LS Bank when SWAT decided to come, surrounded us with cars, a tank, and police snipers then stood infront of us with batons, we weren't going to leave and neither were SWAT, so we took the first action and attacked, law enforcement all died, and then days later that incident happened in Flint County where some certain things were abused, and ever since then it's been a constant downhill road, don't see it getting any better myself.

But we won't kneel to law enforcement, we will deal with them as a threat as we always have, just this time they can suspect and arrest us for much more minor things and so we need to ensure those who see such things don't walk away and get help, else we'll just have a constant police army on our asses.
And like any 'criminals', if we are caught committing a crime, we will do everything in our power to get away with it, including killing.
Consequences of having such a group I guess.

This kind of mentality over police work gets your group into trouble, shows us how much you know about leadership and especially how law enforcement works and as long as you will be leading this group FLA will never have peace because of this fucked up mentality. Almost in every riot SWAT responds, with batons and WATER tank.. it was not a god damn rhino, BUT a water rank! In-real life they also do that, plus they got big gas guns to make people disperse in-case something goes on. They weren't there to kill you with a water tank and batons...SWAT wasn't going to leave until the protesters have made their point and disperse, it will remain there making sure the protest is going peacefully and there are no hostility between protesters and law it's procedures it's common sense something that you keep failing to understand! But  what do you do ? You decide to make a move first just because they are there, and signal your guy to shoot an R.P.G in a public place with civilians around killing law enforcement and hunting them down one by one shooting Rockets!
- Talking about this situation


How do you think law will react to that slaughter? How do you not think we will not pay caution and act accordingly when we hear the same people, road-blocking shouting FLA, shouting fuck ARPD and showing the same signs as the situation above? I'm talking about the situation where you got so butt-hurt and reported S.W.A.T for using tazers upon you. That was the reason why they used tazer, they did not kill you! They tazed the people to bring them for investigation, they didn't taze you and kill you they used non-lethal force on you! Something that happens in riots, something you need to deal with it instead of creating topics and taking it personally THEN forcing your group to start a DM war against police!


And what do you do? I approached you on skype and attempted to justify SWAT actions and law ones ATTEMPTED to make you realize that these actions will only heat things up, instead of you admitting that what have you done was out of the line and that it might lead your group into being terrorists, you supported those actions with stupid excuses.. unlike Hubbe which he even admitted it was out of line but you still continued declaring war against ARPD, attacking us when we enter angel pine.. killing us, then when law comes to finish the job you start blaming us for "comming at us first".
You even said i wasn't professional and a true leader and that ARPD is full of butt-buddies/baised which to me was offensive as i'm trying real hard into completing my tasks professionally.

You have to admit that what you have started here with F.L.A is pretty damn personal, you have avoided all of your goals, you do not know what you want, you simply want to kill cops, you lead your group roleplay into a constant deathmatch roleplay, you invite other clans/mafia groups/gangs as "Supporters" to join you in your wars over /cb without no sign of roleplay, but what you don't get is.. as long as you continue this.. the other side will continue it to. We protect our constitution, policy, we do not surrender our authority to you, BUT we do tolerate and negotiate.. because un-like you i enjoy roleplaying a Police Officer instead of a Ant-Terrorist Unit 24/7.
So instead of making useless replys to this topic everyone, sit down.. and roleplay it. Come to the leaders, negotiate, have a talk, instead of pushing this back and forth and if you can't do that.. resign. As you have shown no true skills of leadership, i don't know your past history on Argonath when it comes into groups, i do not know how quickly you got script support over this but i know you got it because you promised HQ that you will show them decent roleplay, and honestly.. you're just fucking that up, you need to stop.

The thing is, FLA is pretty much the most active non-law enforcement group on the server, what we do is what is keeping players coming on, a few have actually told me they only came back for FLA, I'm not gloating, I'm seeing it how it is, despite RS5.2 the server population has once again dropped and now you think you can come over here suggesting to close one of the things keeping it going, as I've said, if police didn't come to us or block what we call our borders, there would be no shootout, how many times do I have to say that? It's not like we actively group up and then going into Los Santos looking for cops to kill, and I feel like that's what you're making it out we do...

I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

Spoiler for Hiden:

What you do is keeping the players come? Yes, we get shootouts they die and then what? Do they remain there and roleplay? No they simply leave wait till another shoot-out comes, so they get to kill some cops. Nothing permanently productive, simply temporary. We work by our constitution and as long as Gandalf or court will not edit it and claim you guys are independent we will keep coming and disrupting those actions. Why do you have to continue it instead of creating your group other roleplay scenarios? Go over the woods, role-play rebels moving arms from state to state not on highways on convoys but out of sight! There are plenty of others things you can roleplay to get players interaction in county areas instead of roadblocks and shootouts!

I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

Spoiler for Hiden:

There you go again twisting the situation, making yourself look like a victim in the eyes of others. What you did is : You shoot at heavy air, and barricaded yourself inside, then the units attempted to breach the area you were inside, then you got out and got killed/tazed, some officers thought it would be a joke to piss on you because of the pictures you have posted about them lately (some of them are victims :P) but they did it in a way of banter even at the same time i pm'd you to ignore it as it wasn't professional. People were warned that day.

So that's all..

[Khm]

I'll leave you with this picture from when law enforcement came to us in Angel Pine and tazed me yesterday.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I really am too close to not come back to Argonath after finishing with my degree after seeing this picture, I thought such stuff stopped. No matter how much you complain how abusive and corrupt they are, they will never be treated similar. We have to be honest, the indifference of staff team doing between criminals and cops is what really adds more fuel to the fire. Cops tend to flee from any wrong deeds they commit. If we want to talk, let's at least be honest with ourselves. As I've experienced this myself playing the 3 roles in Argonath (the top criminal, the citizen and the top cop), cops tend to intentionally provoke anyone who's indifferent from their views, their role-play style or even personal grudges. I've witnessed a lot of cases during all these years whether it's on TS, on Skype, on the main fucking chat or /cb. They intentionally find ways to provoke the other side to create chaos then whine to their friends in the staff team, hoping to disband that group of people or kick them out of the server permanently. Stop thinking that your top SAPD and FBI guys are so perfect that they won't do any mistake, we are fucking humans and there is no one who can't do a mistake. So staff team, wake the fuck up about this one, it's time to do so.
Criminals on the other side have this thing that they refuse to lose a role-play scenario, this might has changed recently but I didn't witness it so I don't know much about it. But this must-win mentality is also what led to this and what will lead to worse.
To be honest, we have come to an end that we won't find a solution about this FLA vs Cops (not ARPD but all COPS), it has already got out of hand specially with both of them refusing to lose, you guys will have to close one of the groups (which we all know you won't do it on Cops because "it's historic and started with Argonath from the beginning we can't destroy cops man wtf").
The perfect solution to this is to give FLA what they want and leave them role-play but there must be an agreement between the two countries that anyone can go freely between both lands with a passport/visa/ticket w/e you want and stop this nonsense fight of toddlers.
P.s. I might get banned just writing that as it's the naked truth.

[Vaeldious]

...leaving like the rest of 50 players being alone/bored as hell in the other cities because they have almost nobody to interact with.

It has been good for the production of meth though. I've (heard that other people) made easily 2kg with 20+ law enforcement officers online and in broad-daylight public places.

[Mikal]

Law enforcement are willing to negotiate reasonable requests. Saying 'we no want u to enter flint countRy!' isn't a reasonable demand for law enforcement organisations to accept.

I think saying that is very reasonable considering all the death from both sides.

I fail to find a valid reason with a proper roleplay based motive against myself for you to shoot me down. I have no less authority to patrol the air at Angel Pine than I do in for example Fort Carson and Los Santos.

Angel Pine is a rebel controlled area, FLA have been there for months now and the amount of fighting that has taken place, been discussed, argued about, pictures uploaded of, etc, should be enough to tell you that there is a risk there... Don't tell me you just randomly decided to fly round there without knowing about FLA.

I do hope people have seen the change made here;

http://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=116578.msg1833491#msg1833491

Funny thing is, that law came in when FLA's activity started to decrease, seeing that is what created alot of this chaos.

Indeed, it's starting to be boring when 90% of law enforcement sit at Flint Toll or Angel Pine and FLA members (around 5-10?) that are online just to fight eachother, leaving like the rest of 50 players being alone/bored as hell in the other cities because they have almost nobody to interact with.

The fighting is getting very repetitive, perhaps a deal for a ceasefire can be made in the coming days?

Spoiler for Hiden:

I really am too close to not come back to Argonath after finishing with my degree after seeing this picture, I thought such stuff stopped. No matter how much you complain how abusive and corrupt they are, they will never be treated similar. We have to be honest, the indifference of staff team doing between criminals and cops is what really adds more fuel to the fire. Cops tend to flee from any wrong deeds they commit. If we want to talk, let's at least be honest with ourselves. As I've experienced this myself playing the 3 roles in Argonath (the top criminal, the citizen and the top cop), cops tend to intentionally provoke anyone who's indifferent from their views, their role-play style or even personal grudges. I've witnessed a lot of cases during all these years whether it's on TS, on Skype, on the main fucking chat or /cb. They intentionally find ways to provoke the other side to create chaos then whine to their friends in the staff team, hoping to disband that group of people or kick them out of the server permanently. Stop thinking that your top SAPD and FBI guys are so perfect that they won't do any mistake, we are fucking humans and there is no one who can't do a mistake. So staff team, wake the fuck up about this one, it's time to do so.
Criminals on the other side have this thing that they refuse to lose a role-play scenario, this might has changed recently but I didn't witness it so I don't know much about it. But this must-win mentality is also what led to this and what will lead to worse.
To be honest, we have come to an end that we won't find a solution about this FLA vs Cops (not ARPD but all COPS), it has already got out of hand specially with both of them refusing to lose, you guys will have to close one of the groups (which we all know you won't do it on Cops because "it's historic and started with Argonath from the beginning we can't destroy cops man wtf").
The perfect solution to this is to give FLA what they want and leave them role-play but there must be an agreement between the two countries that anyone can go freely between both lands with a passport/visa/ticket w/e you want and stop this nonsense fight of toddlers.
P.s. I might get banned just writing that as it's the naked truth.

Wow Khm, just...

It has been good for the production of meth though. I've (heard that other people) made easily 2kg with 20+ law enforcement officers online and in broad-daylight public places.

They really are too busy in Flint Country.

[Devin]

Funny thing is, that law came in when FLA's activity started to decrease, seeing that is what created alot of this chaos.

It is indeed and I was just about to comment about it until I saw the fact that it had been retracted. People seemed to think "So if they're illegal that means we can go after them" and so they did.

At the end of the day either side is both the provoker and victim in one way or another, it just seems people can't see that there is no point to keep going into flint county seeking fights.

[Marcell]

Why do you have to continue it instead of creating your group other roleplay scenarios? Go over the woods, role-play rebels moving arms from state to state not on highways on convoys but out of sight! There are plenty of others things you can roleplay to get players interaction in county areas instead of roadblocks and shootouts!

Do you have any common sense at all? you're accusing us of not roleplaying things that are meant to stay hidden, how the f... would you know about them in the first place?

You're just showing your lack of imagination, saying all we do is set up roadblocks and getting into shootouts, easily anyone could say the same thing about SAPD. Reality is different, we patrol our territory, brainwash new recruits, organize weapon convoys, party, pray at our church, etc. Just like you guys patrol, get evidence and set up border checks. There's no need to be a biased asshole right here.

First of all I think most of people are way too salty thinking the shootouts between our factions are like TDM runs where one side is meant to win. If you can't mentally handle a simple situation in a multiplayer game where two people shoot each other without crying about it, you should definately switch your profession. People like Leonardo or Julio enjoyed our little skirmishes, and as you can see they're not crying about it, because they know it's just a fucking game.
Demanding we close down shows pure arrogance and have to win mentality, what gives you the right to request other group to close down in the first place? I loved how people are pulling roleplay arguments right here, 'oh but we can just raid you and then you should close down!' sure, why shouldn't some of you be fined few millions for crashing a gunship into a small town then? c'mon... it's just a game no matter how seriously you take it.

Personally though, I do think the skirmishes have been getting out of hand a bit lately, but the server is half dead anyway so I don't see nothing wrong with it. If SAPD wants peace without acting like dicks about it however, I suppose an agreement could be simply arranged - a cease fire of some sorts, however due to RP nature of the military attacks (such as Hydras blowing up 15+ houses) the military/police presence would be heavy regulated - treat it as border control of some sorts, if you just take an army and approach borders of another country it's going to be treated as provocation. I'm fine with SAPD doing their checkpoints at the paytolls, as long as they don't set them up outside of paytolls / into Flint Country (Flint bridge is fine). Of course such an agreement won't ever happen, cause you guys will come up with something like 'lol no ure all terrorists sry'

[Drix]

Who demanded it's closure?

[Devin]

Those videos of cops carpet bombing Angel Pine with a Hydra was interesting to watch to say the least.

[Drix]

Those videos of cops carpet bombing Angel Pine with a Hydra was interesting to watch to say the least.

You should've seen those videos where in that exact situation cops got killed on-entrance because " your entering a terrorist state, what you expect cup of tea?". Don't speak and cause more hate in this topic without knowing the whole side of the story, help your Manager Mr.Leader .. don't push this.

[Devin]

Taking offense to a post once again, go on. It seems any time I don't take the cops side with a message in this community it offends those that are primarily "pro-cop" and it upsets people. I guess that's because it was the norm for those in HQ positions for years.

[Arslan]

Those videos of cops carpet bombing Angel Pine with a Hydra was interesting to watch to say the least.

Remove this:


And Hydra can be removed also since the above is considered valid RP so I don't understand by use of hydra after the slaughter of so many cops doesn't warrant it for people with c4/grenades/rpg etc.

I do believe explosive ordinance should be removed for the good of the server and even if the Hydra stays, it cannot be used to shoot under any circumstance no matter what but only to track people in the sea.

[Marcell]

You should've seen those videos where in that exact situation cops got killed on-entrance because " your entering a terrorist state, what you expect cup of tea?". Don't speak and cause more hate in this topic without knowing the whole side of the story, help your Manager Mr.Leader .. don't push this.

Because entering an independent-declared city as lonely uniformed cop, approaching armed masked people who you brand as 'terrorists' yourself and taking pictures of them while next to them while laughing, shouldn't get you shot. Quality logic my friend