Current behaviour

[Devin]

I now see why previous HQ teams and members were against allowing any sort of terrorist like group on the server, one being people can't comprehend a group like that in-game and another being people getting overly sensitive about the subject on a game.

Either way, you can't fault FLA members and leaders for trying something new instead of just another "mafia" running around on NRGs and Infernus' getting suspected and evading all day long. If you want to argue with my statement, at least think before you write, that is all I ask. At least people are trying something new and believe it or not, between the fighting they actually do roleplay. I am also sure there will be people running around complaining "Devin supports FLA even when they dm" because it's somehow incomprehensible that a server leader/hq member supports criminals over others for once. It's insanity right?

There are two sides to every story, FLA are recognized as a criminal/terrorist sort of group based on their actions which as you would expect brings in police attention as you can see in-game and that is expected. Cops would generally try stop any and all forms of terrorist/criminal activity inside the server but it gets to a point where this is overboard. An FLA member holds a gun and suddenly there's a brigade of officers arming up for a war or something.

Sure FLA members are law breaking "criminals" of sorts and they have all right to roleplay their characters but you also need to realize as you roleplay being a cop going on duty and protecting the city, they roleplay their character. Complaints about them playing their characters is essentially like saying "They're roleplaying a drug dealer, that's illegal its provoking cops".
Criminal group members run around killing people, doing drug deals but the only subject nowadays is shootouts with FLA and pissing contests on mainchat over who won and who lost.

I really do feel people have forgotten the reason why they come in-game. Sure you can go and kill a criminal good on you, but what roleplay was there behind that? Yes it is a job of the police to stop criminals but come on. Let people roleplay. I have looked at it from both sides including logs and each time these "wars" happen I see little to no actual roleplay between either party it's just a mess of people getting shot or blown up.

It's simple, don't get in someones face if you don't want confrontation. Let them roleplay their characters and they can let you roleplay yours. If there has to be an interaction between the two then at least don't look at it as a free chance for a shootout to "own" others.

[TiMoN]

Its about time Gandalf declares FC an independant state.

[Devin]

Don't get me wrong, by no means do I deem all of FLA members actions as acceptable nor do I condone all of it. The best thing for the group would be to become more subdued and less public and deliberate about their actions such as holding weapons in busy areas, blocking main roads like the Rodeo-Flint bridge which just asks for police attention. But for more roleplay oriented action, instead of drawing the cops in with certain actions roleplay as you feel necessary for your group but don't deliberately do things just to get into a war.

The same can be said for the other side, give them some space to roleplay. There's no need to run in with a riot squad each time they gather together to do something.

[Mikal]

I'll admit myself that I do alot of moaning mainly about law enforcement/what law enforcement do and I need to cut it out as does everyone else as it is ruining what is meant to be a fun environment for everyone to play in, the constant bitching and as you said, pissing contest, is out of control, for that I apologise and will stop doing it myself.

There is also too much shooting and not enough RP from both sides, I miss the times a couple of months back when we as FLA would actually RP some road blocks, patrols, enforcing our laws in Flint Country, etc, we don't really do any of that lately because we are too distracted with shooting at law enforcement, so that is something big we need to fix, sure there's going to be shootouts, but we should atleast try to RP inbetween.

I wish we had some certified RP way to obtain the independence we desire, but so far all we are being told is "you already have it" (yeah right), FLA isn't going to close and it isn't going to stop with it's rebellion activities, so I guess this will just go on for eternity, hopefully with less shooting.

[McGarrett]

It's sad to see that these situations often evolve into violence like FLA vs ARPD. Like today at Luciano HQ when you were just looking for someone who had murdered a farmer or something and you walked around 12 guys armed with rifles in the street of LS. When ARPD arrived with a helicopter above, you decided to shoot it down. This is unncessary. I do not mean to point fingers as we initially understand that you do not come to LS for warm hugs, but you're very slippery on the finger. And if you want to drop a helicopter out of the air, then that is all good, but do it with proper motive and not just because you're "annoyed" with it.

[Arslan]

The best thing for the group would be to become more subdued and less public and deliberate about their actions such as holding weapons in busy areas, blocking main roads like the Rodeo-Flint bridge which just asks for police attention.

The same can be said for the other side, give them some space to roleplay. There's no need to run in with a riot squad each time they gather together to do something.

This policy has already been implemented. No officer was allowed to go into FC hunting or Angel Pine. They were told to keep out and everyone did, nothing happen. They were given their space. Even when they set road block in FC, no one went in with army/rambo but the road to FC was blocked for as long as it lasted.

The problem came when a whole army of them came into heart of Los Santos city, where pretty much all ARPD+FBI is and every single person start walking around with guns out. The officers didn't even open fire but merely used words and yet they shot down a police chopper. Now I can only imagine even if a bullet was shot from one of the officers, it would've just been a big DM fest inside the center of the city. This is where the problem began.

You wanna RP a country? Fine. You do that in your space. If you had a personal vendetta with Lucianos, you take them out behind the scene not come as an army which looks like an invasion from FLA into Santos.

[Marcell]

It's sad to see that these situations often evolve into violence like FLA vs ARPD. Like today at Luciano HQ when you were just looking for someone who had murdered a farmer or something and you walked around 12 guys armed with rifles in the street of LS. When ARPD arrived with a helicopter above, you decided to shoot it down. This is unncessary. I do not mean to point fingers as we initially understand that you do not come to LS for warm hugs, but you're very slippery on the finger. And if you want to drop a helicopter out of the air, then that is all good, but do it with proper motive and not just because you're "annoyed" with it.

The reason why the helicopter was shot down was that it didn't change it's course by slightest point after being asked to few times in a row, and I believe some of our soldiers were especially angry about it cause there was another officer who'd constantly fly next to us during our previous roadblock checkpoint scenario a hour ago despite warnings, and they'd probably mix up the officers to be the same person.
As you could see we weren't looking for a big war in LS, else we'd stay there after shooting down the helicopter, but we decided to pack our shit and leave. LEO's coming after that however is perfectly acceptable since an officer was killed either way, the way I see it, but the heli should've left in the first place - a single pilot hovering above 10+ men armed with assault rifles, telling them to disperse? one would have to be a really mentally challenged person or a rambo to act like that

[TiMoN]

It's sad to see that these situations often evolve into violence like FLA vs ARPD. Like today at Luciano HQ when you were just looking for someone who had murdered a farmer or something and you walked around 12 guys armed with rifles in the street of LS. When ARPD arrived with a helicopter above, you decided to shoot it down. This is unncessary. I do not mean to point fingers as we initially understand that you do not come to LS for warm hugs, but you're very slippery on the finger. And if you want to drop a helicopter out of the air, then that is all good, but do it with proper motive and not just because you're "annoyed" with it.

I wasnt online but if I'm not mistaken the "farmer" that was murderef was the spiritual leader of FLA, a pope of some sort or something, not into the total religion hokus pokus thing.
If I'm a redneck farmer who worships Sauron and aomeone murders a pope I'd go at them with assault rifles too.

[Hubbestubbe]

I can understand that it was provoking, we shouldn't act like we do in Flint, when we're in LS trying to deal with other things.

Yet i just want to say that we do RP without dragging the police into it, but ofcourse this doesnt show as much. We have almost daily transports with or without protection from Angel Pine/Ocean Docks and I try to put a lot of focus on the logistic parts of this too. So it's not just shooting even if it may look like that sometimes.

[Arslan]

The reason why the helicopter was shot down was that it didn't change it's course by slightest point after being asked to few times in a row, and I believe some of our soldiers were especially angry about it cause there was another officer who'd constantly fly next to us during our previous roadblock checkpoint scenario a hour ago despite warnings, and they'd probably mix up the officers to be the same person.
As you could see we weren't looking for a big war in LS, else we'd stay there after shooting down the helicopter, but we decided to pack our shit and leave. LEO's coming after that however is perfectly acceptable since an officer was killed either way, the way I see it, but the heli should've left in the first place - a single pilot hovering above 10+ men armed with assault rifles, telling them to disperse? one would have to be a really mentally challenged person or a rambo to act like that

You don't come into the busiest city on the server as terrorists and start to order law enforcement around. That is just asking for a response and DM fest. The rambo act was you coming into LS the way you did which resulted in the response you got.

[Salmonella]

You don't come into the busiest city on the server as terrorists and start to order law enforcement around. That is just asking for a response and DM fest.

Hardly has to be, and did it end in a DM fest? No. The helicopter was being a pain and got shot down but Hubbe and the rest ordered everyone to not open fire on the other cops, so nobody did. You didn't open fire on us either and we parted ways there.

Why use a GOOD situation as an example of a bad one?

[McGarrett]

Hardly has to be, and did it end in a DM fest? No. The helicopter was being a pain and got shot down but Hubbe and the rest ordered everyone to not open fire on the other cops, so nobody did. You didn't open fire on us either and we parted ways there.

Why use a GOOD situation as an example of a bad one?

The helicopter that got shot down as not a "good" example of how roleplay events between ARPD and FLA should occur.

[Ramo_Hawk]

just a mess of people getting shot or blown up.

I swear to god I had the image of everyone's limbs flying around 


I personally would like to say that I understand both sides' point of views respectively and I have come up with a solution which is a possible win-win or a halfwin-halfwin, depends on how you see it and depends on how both groups see it.

I have just spoken with Leon and we have just had an hour conversation which we're suppose to continue tomorrow, but I'd like your opinion on it, Devin, and also the server's and both sides that are usually involved. I've spoken about it with Leon before I even told FLA about it. Basically my idea is this: What if we give it some sort of a one-month trial independence and see how we move on from there? I am speaking about Angel Pine, giving Angel Pine independence. One of FLA's Leadership basically told me its nonsense because its just a small town, and even JUST Angel Pine is nearly impossible to give independence because I'm definite that the SAPD doesn't want to be limited on their jurisdiction. But for example, building up a company, you have to start small from somewhere and build your way to the top, and not just start balling from the beginning. If Angel Pine is given a one-month trial as independence, those who continuously ask for it will have that small chance to prove themselves.

IF they fail to do so, HQ will end the experiment/project, whatever you want to call it, and tell FLA to stop asking for independence because they've given them a chance, and they failed to prove themselves. If they succeeded, leave it for a longer period of time and see how it progresses, if it fucks up along the way, see what can be fixed. If it cannot, simply once again just abandon the project. Maybe if a lot of succession is done, it can later on go on to other parts of Flint.

On the other hand, might proposal might have some backlash due to Law Enforcements was jurisdiction everywhere, and they might claim what will happen if a criminal goes to your independent place with different laws? Considering the laws that were broken are on the other side, you will contact the appointed embassies of Angel Pine and find a solution, they might either give you the jurisdiction for a temporary time to capture the suspect, or they send their own forces. If they fail to do so, screw it, just leave it be and call it a day. OR maybe, set up a form of an agreement with some people and set up some of your actual people who would like to RP as cops in Angel Pine as I'm sure no one from FLA would like to be a cop. In order to ensure that the criminals do not enter their boarder, defend the boarder like you were doing at Flint's Bridge, and this goes for both groups.

As Leon has previously mentioned to me privately, why not just roleplay it? And we all know how that went for Argonath for these past years with the mentality of "RP IT", it held back Argonath a lot and a lot of great players were lost of it because some things need to be official, some things need to be visualized. If some of you continue to keep saying "just rp it", why don't you RP the /wear and other objects as well?

This is a sort of win-win situation because Angel Pine will have its own government, its own constitution, its own groups and so on and basically it they'll get their independence which they've been continuously asking for. On the other hand, it will stop SAPD from being forced to join in the shootouts, and will no longer have to be on the look out for FLA. My proposal will help both sides, a lot, and it should be a solution to fixing these constant arguments and mass shootouts that are continuously made. A lot of more possible roleplay will be able to be done due to forcing both sides interacting together in order to help each other and not be enemies.

I assure you that if this isn't given at least a try, come up with a better solution. If you are against with anything that I have mentioned, state it and maybe I can try and find a solution myself. If this doesn't go on, either more chaos will be created In-Game, more fighting, more arguments which will lead to people leaving or HQ to step in and demolish FLA, which will still then get everyone who supports FLA to riot and either end up leaving or cause more chaos with HQ. A solution has to be found, tomorrow if not today, but it has to be found ASAP.

[Marcell]

You don't come into the busiest city on the server as terrorists and start to order law enforcement around. That is just asking for a response and DM fest.

Of course it's just asking for trouble, but the pilot could've acted a bit more realistically. Either way today's shootout was completely justified so I don't understand anyone's problems with it, only thing that felt kinda off was certain people restocking 4+ armors in two minutes span. It's just a game, and a GTA game at that overall, so I don't see why whenever a shootout happens everyone feels as if the server is getting destroyed or something....

And yeah now that you say that I suppose going with a convoy of 6 cars inside LS just to chase down 2 mobsters (who abused /q to avoid roleplay, will be reported soon) was pretty stupid. We were just happy to have so much members online at the time.

[Arslan]

Hardly has to be, and did it end in a DM fest? No. The helicopter was being a pain and got shot down but Hubbe and the rest ordered everyone to not open fire on the other cops, so nobody did. You didn't open fire on us either and we parted ways there.

Why use a GOOD situation as an example of a bad one?

Don't make it seem as if what you did was perfectly acceptable. It was not. You killed an officer while INSIDE the most populated city with law enforcement and you treat it as if it was a joke?

What your saying sound something like this: the chopper was annoying us so we killed the cop in it but don't shoot as us so it won't cause DM fest.

As you must know very well killing a cop is pretty much the quickest way to trigger a high profile response form law enforcement.