Policy

[Julio.]

The important part is... either way, whether or not a rule is implemented, people should try not to be offended by the result or take a knee jerk reaction to the outcome.

Realistically, the RP will change very minimally, if at all in 95% of cases.

If a rule is implemented like this, and I was RPing a clown and called you by name despite you RPing a stranger... and somebody reported me for it, how should I be punished, and would you expect an administrator to go crawling through chat logs dating back weeks and months to deduce whether I should have known who you are?

[.Matthew.]

I don't mind the rule because people then won't be allowed to just come to a black premier and say "yo feds"  just because the name tag says Arslan or Matthew

[Jubin]

So let me get it straight, most of the server want to forbid players who do use meta and powergaming instead of rather just letting them play in their own style without affecting you or your own roleplay? Why not just make a mental note how some people roleplay and then decide if you want to  role play with them again or not instead?

[Julio.]

Why not just make a mental note how some people roleplay and then decide if you want to role play with them again or not instead?

People interpreted previous HQ's enforcement of RP as a limitation in this respect. I'm not encouraging this rule to be put in place, but in previous weeks/months, players were essentially not allowed to "deny" RP with somebody they didn't like RPing with. No idea how current HQ intends to handle that part, it's a difficult one though.

[Jubin]

People interpreted previous HQ's enforcement of RP as a limitation in this respect. I'm not encouraging this rule to be put in place, but in previous weeks/months, players were essentially not allowed to "deny" RP with somebody they didn't like RPing with. No idea how current HQ intends to handle that part, it's a difficult one though.

Oh I know and I have had a lengthy discussion about it with Gandalf in another topic before and I still find it wrong. I find it that if you don't want to role play with someone you should be able to polietly decline the offer. 

[Link9rly]

So let me get it straight, most of the server want to forbid players who do use meta and powergaming instead of rather just letting them play in their own style without affecting you or your own roleplay? Why not just make a mental note how some people roleplay and then decide if you want to  role play with them again or not instead?

How does metagaming and powergaming not affect a roleplay? The main purpose powergaming and metagaming is to cheat the scenario at the expense of other's enjoyment.

People interpreted previous HQ's enforcement of RP as a limitation in this respect. I'm not encouraging this rule to be put in place, but in previous weeks/months, players were essentially not allowed to "deny" RP with somebody they didn't like RPing with. No idea how current HQ intends to handle that part, it's a difficult one though.

The main aim of MG/PG rules are to help create a reasonably equal playing field for those involved to avoid unreasonable unfairness.

I don't mind the rule because people then won't be allowed to just come to a black premier and say "yo feds"  just because the name tag says Arslan or Matthew

Exactly. The implementation of these rule benefits everybody.

The important part is... either way, whether or not a rule is implemented, people should try not to be offended by the result or take a knee jerk reaction to the outcome.

Well, the community knows what it wants. To go against it for the sake of some delusions of being unique just for not having universally acknowledged universal roleplay standards is quite frankly retarded. There's no other way to put it.

Realistically, the RP will change very minimally, if at all in 95% of cases.

Let's make it 99%/100%. And let's make it easier to remove those that constantly cheating roleplay scenarios at everybody else's expense.

If a rule is implemented like this, and I was RPing a clown and called you by name despite you RPing a stranger... and somebody reported me for it, how should I be punished, and would you expect an administrator to go crawling through chat logs dating back weeks and months to deduce whether I should have known who you are?

I'm not sure why you think that the server will suddenly  turn hostile for these rules being implemented when you yourself have stated that.

RP will change very minimally

Why would an administrator need to crawl through chat logs for something a single screenshot piece of evidence could provide? That seems unnecessary and stupid. If somebody's going to report you for something like that, they'd just need to provide a screenshot. Not only that but I doubt that players wanting these rules are complaining about these scenarios.

[Julio.]

Oh I know and I have had a lengthy discussion about it with Gandalf in another topic before and I still find it wrong. I find it that if you don't want to role play with someone you should be able to polietly decline the offer.

I agree. The problem is those who decline RP simply because they don't want to be the victim. There's no shame at all in RPing being kidnapped, or being slapped around a bit, embrace it and you can usually slip a few bits of humour in there (falling over and accidentally headbutting a kidnappers testicles and such).

There are always grey areas...
 How do you define DM? "Killing without RP/Reason." - Then how do you define whether a reason is good enough? If I'm RPing a mafia character and walk up to a person, and without speaking, shoot them in the head, is that DM? Now if we roll back 4 weeks and see that the person I killed, shot and killed my brother... is it DM now?

Even if we say "no metagaming," there's still a grey area as metagaming can be interpreted differently by different people. A more generic rule would be a compromise, saying "No using OOC information to give yourself a significant advantage in RP." But then how do you define a significant advantage?

The real problem is players getting upset because they're killed, or don't like an RP scenario. The easiest way to fix this is to allow players to refuse RP in some circumstances. Also, if players didn't purposely ride the edges of the rules and the system, it wouldn't be a problem.


Link replied whilst I was posting this, so will add replies below:

Why would an administrator need to crawl through chat logs for something a single screenshot piece of evidence could provide? That seems unnecessary and stupid. If somebody's going to report you for something like that, they'd just need to provide a screenshot. Not only that but I doubt that players wanting these rules are complaining about these scenarios.

Indeed, I do agree with this point. The reporting player should have evidence. Not moan when administration don't want to look through the logs...

I didn't mention uniqueness, don't imply my thought pattern is retarded please either, I take offence to that.

I didn't say the server was hostile, and that specific example just came from the top of my head so may not be a good representation.

[Julio.]

Apologies for the double post...

I retract my statement when I mentioned "retarded thought pattern," I re-read your reply and realise that's not what was said at all, I misread your comment...

[Jubin]

How does metagaming and powergaming not affect a roleplay? The main purpose powergaming and metagaming is to cheat the scenario at the expense of other's enjoyment.

If you roleplay in Los Santos with your friends and I roleplay with my friends in Las Venturas which involves meta and powergaming, tell me, how does my playing affect you?

I agree. The problem is those who decline RP simply because they don't want to be the victim. There's no shame at all in RPing being kidnapped, or being slapped around a bit, embrace it and you can usually slip a few bits of humour in there (falling over and accidentally headbutting a kidnappers testicles and such).

There are always grey areas...
 How do you define DM? "Killing without RP/Reason." - Then how do you define whether a reason is good enough? If I'm RPing a mafia character and walk up to a person, and without speaking, shoot them in the head, is that DM? Now if we roll back 4 weeks and see that the person I killed, shot and killed my brother... is it DM now?

Even if we say "no metagaming," there's still a grey area as metagaming can be interpreted differently by different people. A more generic rule would be a compromise, saying "No using OOC information to give yourself a significant advantage in RP." But then how do you define a significant advantage?

The real problem is players getting upset because they're killed, or don't like an RP scenario. The easiest way to fix this is to allow players to refuse RP in some circumstances. Also, if players didn't purposely ride the edges of the rules and the system, it wouldn't be a problem.

Yes there are grey areas. What I usually think is, wheter this thing would happen in GTA universe. No mafioso nor gang member would come and without a word killing me in GTA universe. If he comes and says that I was involved with the death of his brother 4 weeks ago I am already prepared to get shot and I wouldn't even mind if I get killed, but that's it. I am dead and after that is a new character for me with new name and "backstory".

[Link9rly]

If you roleplay in Los Santos with your friends and I roleplay with my friends in Las Venturas which involves meta and powergaming, tell me, how does my playing affect you?

If I'm not roleplaying with you at the moment, I've no reason to report you for metagaming, especially since it'll most likely happen without me knowing or it even affecting me. Are you cheating and putting me at a disadvantage? No. I'm not sure how enacting MG/PG rules is related to this. This is just twisting it to unlikely extremes.

[Jubin]

If I'm not roleplaying with you at the moment, I've no reason to report you for metagaming, especially since it'll most likely happen without me knowing or it even affecting me. Are you cheating and putting me at a disadvantage? No. I'm not sure how enacting MG/PG rules is related to this. This is just twisting it to unlikely extremes.

You still want to enforce a rule to me and my friends that we shouldn't use PG/MG, even though it doesn't affect you.

[Link9rly]

You still want to enforce a rule to me and my friends that we shouldn't use PG/MG, even though it doesn't affect you.

How is meeting up with your friends putting anybody at a disadvantage, though? You're grasping at straws here.

[Jubin]

How does meeting up with your friends putting anybody at a disadvantage, though? You're grasping at straws here.

What meeting up? I am roleplaying with my friends and we have different views and standards to roleplaying than you and your friends, but server rules apply to everybody in the game. So what you are pushing here right now is your roleplay standards on me.

[Julio.]

You still want to enforce a rule to me and my friends that we shouldn't use PG/MG, even though it doesn't affect you.

I don't agree with this particular comment actually Jubin. Though we've had a "no deathmatching" rule for years, amongst close friends this happens on a semi-regular basis in situations that aren't serious. It's somewhat unwritten that there are certain rules which aren't applied provided the players involved do not have a problem with it.

"No metagaming" does imply that it's only for situations where you gain an advantage, perhaps it would be better written in a form that is more fair: "Act within the bounds of your specific RP situation"

We've always encouraged different RP situations here, so let's try and keep it that way!

[Link9rly]

What meeting up? I am roleplaying with my friends and we have different views and standards to roleplaying than you and your friends, but server rules apply to everybody in the game. So what you are pushing here right now is your roleplay standards on me.

But how is your roleplaying affecting me in an unfair manner? You're talking about quality of roleplay here, not metagaming/powergaming.