It's time to do something about our Money Obsession.

[JackDockz]

You agree with everyone, stop asslicking and make up your own opinion instead.

Instead of grinding money we should focus on fun and quality playtime

[Darty]

Should have thought of that before deciding to go inactive then.

Emmet is right, inactive players don't deserve to keep properties for so long when they don't put effort in them.

[Hammer_]

I agree with this high bunch of paragraphs written, but also the inactivity rate has risen because some people see less players, they see that it will be boring for them, if they see many players, they'd like to hop in. We need to change that too, Argonath's activity rate is mostly down on a level where 17/18 players are online. If this changes, we would have at least 60 players online each day or maybe I would be dreaming. However, try to build interest in this game and trying joining the game at least once, the others will automatically follow you inside. Because they'd see the high player rate, they'll come and think it's great currently inside the server. If you have any thing to add in my suggestion, please do!

[Stivi]

Example #3: Many cars are held in /groups that are barely present. While groups like Corleone, Gvardia, Sforza, WS, and the like (too many active groups for me to list) deserve their vehicles because of their continuing presence and contributions, some others are barely around (based on a week of regular play and observation during peak hours, hours with lowest playercount, and in between.) If there is no system for this already (correct me if I'm wrong) then IMO, HQ should better regulate group vehicles vis-a-vis activity so we can avoid players running around in frustration from locked cars owned by groups they barely see at all.

True, there are groups used for cars, but that's because the limit is just not enough most of the time. Yeah, you don't use ALL the cars at the SAME time, but all the cars are used. This all happens because closed/SOLD(hello isn't this not allowed or do I have to look at posts for a couple of hours?) are almost never removed, and new groups have a lot of members and not enough cars because 5 isn't really enough. Yeah, we have some cleaning up, but I can see how it's hard for HQ to determine group activity when groups have outsiders in their group as well. Perhaps if we introduced group tags and then filter activity by that, if we have a panel now anyway.

Players running in locked cars is not a problem, though. I don't see it as one at least.

Example #4: The purpose of property taxes is making sure that properties are owned by active players. (Not so much government revenue, since there are many ways to raise state funds) But we have a few dickheads (yes, I am using this term) who only login for an hour or less when it's time to pay taxes to avoid losing their (fancy) houses and properties, then log off for the next few months. This kind of hoarding literally comes at the expense of all active players who contribute to the server in many different ways.

No, the purpose of property taxes is making sure players are playing to be able to keep their properties, because if they don't play, then they don't make money, then they can't pay tax, and then they lose the property. Really it's better than the old system, but I'll rewrite that same sentence underlining something important:

No, the purpose of property taxes is making sure players are playing to be able to keep their properties, because if they don't play, then they don't make money, then they can't pay tax, and then they lose the property.

And it's not entirely correct either, there are businesses who make more money than their taxes, but doesn't really matter, if you add houses and stuff.

About the dickheads, ughm, yeah, you can call them whatever you want, but you don't know the reason why that happens, or how the server regulations kinda force you into, and then again it's pretty allowed. Also, this was a problem in RS4 too, but then it was in 3 months, not 2. So we're making progress, but this isn't an issue.

All of this hoarding and excess greed is only a symptom of the root cause: players' obsession with money. It poisons the server environment and makes money the single most important aspect of gameplay, rather than fun and quality interaction with others.

No. I would elaborate why not, but things will get worse if someone decides my posts are worthy of their time, so just take my word on this one and admit that the reason this hoarding is happening is not only because of players' obsession with money.

Emmet is right, inactive players don't deserve to keep properties for so long when they don't put effort in them.

They are. How did they buy their property in the first place? They worked, got some money, bought it. They are logging in once a month, fuck even once every two months to pay taxes. Listen, those who actually leave the server usually give all their shit away to a couple of friends, those who are inactive are no less of a player of the server than everyone else.

To preclude any possible misinterpretation, I am not criticizing the developers' work. I have noticed the new (current) HQ's work in continuing progress, and I appreciate their efforts. I am also well aware of the increasing amount of work and detail that went into economic planning for the server over the years, and previously helped test developing scripts as I watched the server's progress with hope through RS3, RS4, and now RS5. But given human unpredictability, I don't think anyone back then (maybe few, at the most) could have forecast that the economy would end up in such an inflated, runaway state despite meticulous planning designed meant precisely to solve previous inflated, runaway economies and prevent future ones.

I am also not saying all / most rich players are like this. We have many players and groups who have been rich over the years, and have become rich for different reasons, but not so that they can exploit other players. Many of them still contribute(d) to quality interaction. Yet the symptoms of excess greed are clear if you go around on the server, and we have to do something about it.

I would criticize the developers, only because they allow themselves to take shit from the players, which is what people liked about Teddy, until he left. Yeah, the economic planning, all bark and no bite. You were probably active when Gandalf was posting his RS5 Series, and Teddy posted a couple of RP opportunities in RS5, yet a lot of those features are gone/scrapped. Why? Because the players reacted negatively to a fucking wallet script, bank cards and so on and on, but we all reacted positively on the 500m payday money given to us for free. Now that is a fuckup on the developers' side. Spawning money? That too. I worked for months to buy a 275k property in the beginning of RS5, then get a loan for the rest of the percentage, and work for more months, until I did it. Now? I'll go to the drug market, sell shitton of drugs, or even go trucking, and have twice that amount within weeks. Let's not talk about trucking, I mean, cmon. We GUIDE NEW PLAYERS TO GO TRUCKING AND MAKE MONEY.  There really was potential for this server, now it's just a huge fuckup after fuckup, and people are trying to fix it, but I have the feeling that it's too late.

I agree with this high bunch of paragraphs written, but also the inactivity rate has risen because some people see less players, they see that it will be boring for them, if they see many players, they'd like to hop in. We need to change that too, Argonath's activity rate is mostly down on a level where 17/18 players are online. If this changes, we would have at least 60 players online each day or maybe I would be dreaming. However, try to build interest in this game and trying joining the game at least once, the others will automatically follow you inside. Because they'd see the high player rate, they'll come and think it's great currently inside the server. If you have any thing to add in my suggestion, please do!

And do what? RS5 was supposed to be a challenge, a constant challenge. RS5.2 was supposed to be a version of this challenge that would allow you to play the game even without needing friends. You can't blame the players for not playing. The fault is on the HQ's side ( no, don't be offended, every HQ has their ups and downs, we're all people ) because they have the power to change stuff, script stuff, etc.

[Pandalink]

Back at it again with the giant essays gg

it's just like old times

[Jeremy.]

We need to prioritize role play and having fun instead the robotic mindset of farming the green numeric value seen on the upper right corners of our screens.

Let's face the truth, people are farming money 24/7 because that's all they care for. What's RP if you can't show your supermacy owning 50 houses in the hood of your rival gang/family? The current playerbase is full of people which gather their 5 cousins and cook meth together till they achieve shitload of cash, even if they reach a big amount they will never stop from farming because that's all they know. It's everyone's option to do whatever they want to, but when you prioritize money farming rather than roleplaying then there's a huge issue. Maybe this is the reason why people stop playing.

[Chase]

We realize that the current economy is pretty inflated and saturated like it was in RS4. I want to overhaul the economic system in 5.3 but I need good suggestions on how it should be done. I can make the scripts sort of "curve" the behavior of players by making them work more for their money but I can't fix the mentality. So please shoot me some ideas on how I can at least somewhat remedy this issue in the new version.

[Stivi]

We realize that the current economy is pretty inflated and saturated like it was in RS4. I want to overhaul the economic system in 5.3 but I need good suggestions on how it should be done. I can make the scripts sort of "curve" the behavior of players by making them work more for their money but I can't fix the mentality. So please shoot me some ideas on how I can at least somewhat remedy this issue in the new version.

Start with removing the possibility of paydays, money spawning commands (or really enforce it so HQ don't spawn cash ) and everything related to spawning money. Basically, leave the dirty money the only method of "spawning", and you might make it a bit harder to convert it to clean, though this might take a lot of thinking. But the damage is done, because you listened to the players. We moaned that there was no way to make money, so Gimli made trucking, and then no one told him it was OP, so shitton of people made money, now no matter how much you nerf it, there will be complains. I don't know, complete the farming script, let people spend some cash too. There's just too many millions out there, the guns being heavily priced won't fix it.

Start removing people's cash on ban too.

[Reckless]

I propose we do nothing.

[Chase]

Start with removing the possibility of paydays, money spawning commands (or really enforce it so HQ don't spawn cash ) and everything related to spawning money. Basically, leave the dirty money the only method of "spawning", and you might make it a bit harder to convert it to clean, though this might take a lot of thinking. But the damage is done, because you listened to the players. We moaned that there was no way to make money, so Gimli made trucking, and then no one told him it was OP, so shitton of people made money, now no matter how much you nerf it, there will be complains. I don't know, complete the farming script, let people spend some cash too. There's just too many millions out there, the guns being heavily priced won't fix it.

Start removing people's cash on ban too.

I totally agree. I think payday should be removed or heavily restricted, but since that's an HQ thing, it's something for @Brian to consider. Perhaps /sponsor should go to a lottery fund instead of "payday". Damage is done indeed. The only way I think is an option to rectify the millions already in bank accounts is to add some sort of "sink" to balance the economy. This could possibly be in the form of a tax increase on purchases and perhaps maybe even a income tax for jobs.

[Rei]

Perhaps the taxes should be on percentage of your networth instead ? this way some dudes don't just gather a bunch of millions and sit for the rest of game?

[Satoshi]

It won't change anything at all, absolutely nothing.
It's within Argonath's nowadays mentality set. They're all in for who has a larger group, who can shoot better, who has the most properties around the town, who has the fanciest cars, the heaviest weapons. This is Argonath today, which is very sad. The "role play" context of it's ridiculous. All the roleplay I see it's either some dudes, like at least 5 plus, kidnapping some other dude from the "rival mafia", play with him a lot then obviously kill him, either those same dudes bump into new players and again do the same shit they did with their rival, either do the same shit again but it's a cop/federal this time, bomb someone, explode someone. It's all about killing the opposite team. It's really sad. Indeed, there are a few exceptions like AoD, that other military thing, perhaps FLA for his unique concept.
Roleplay doesn't even exist here anymore.
What happened with the problems within a group? Fights, washing money, their legal front, parties. I just see plain murdering. Everyone is friend with everyone and nobody can't fuck things up within their own family for roleplay purposes. That's Argonath for you today: cook meth, harvest weed, sell the drugs to black market whatever, get the cash, spend it on big guns, be part of a mafia, go with ten boys on a federal/rival member rob him/kill him, repeat.

It's sad, that's why so many left.

[Chase]

Perhaps the taxes should be on percentage of your networth instead ? this way some dudes don't just gather a bunch of millions and sit for the rest of game?

That's basically what I had in mind. Different tax for lower-class, middle-class, and upper-class.

[djole]

That's basically what I had in mind. Different tax for lower-class, middle-class, and upper-class.

that's already a thing, taxes are calculated based on property value. which i'm sure you're aware of already

[TheGreasyChopper]

It won't change anything at all, absolutely nothing.
It's within Argonath's nowadays mentality set. They're all in for who has a larger group, who can shoot better, who has the most properties around the town, who has the fanciest cars, the heaviest weapons. This is Argonath today, which is very sad. The "role play" context of it's ridiculous. All the roleplay I see it's either some dudes, like at least 5 plus, kidnapping some other dude from the "rival mafia", play with him a lot then obviously kill him, either those same dudes bump into new players and again do the same shit they did with their rival, either do the same shit again but it's a cop/federal this time, bomb someone, explode someone. It's all about killing the opposite team. It's really sad. Indeed, there are a few exceptions like AoD, that other military thing, perhaps FLA for his unique concept.
Roleplay doesn't even exist here anymore.
What happened with the problems within a group? Fights, washing money, their legal front, parties. I just see plain murdering. Everyone is friend with everyone and nobody can't fuck things up within their own family for roleplay purposes. That's Argonath for you today: cook meth, harvest weed, sell the drugs to black market whatever, get the cash, spend it on big guns, be part of a mafia, go with ten boys on a federal/rival member rob him/kill him, repeat.

It's sad, that's why so many left.

Pretty much this. There are a few people who contribute positively, however when you try to break the status quo of Meth, Weed, Kidnap, you pretty much get most of the groups/argonath playerbase against you.