It's time to do something about our Money Obsession.

[Huntsman]

I am not going to retaliate to that for the sanity of this topic. I'll just say I disagree with you both.

Ive been playing SAMP for about six-seven years, and only fairly recently stopped playing regularly. Nevertheless, I still occiasionally pay a visit.  I would not dismiss returning to the server if the issues raised in this topic were tackled. So yes, this concerns me as much as it concerns you.

[Stivi]

I am not going to retaliate to that for the sanity of this topic. I'll just say I disagree with you both.

Ive been playing SAMP for about six-seven years, and only fairly recently stopped playing regularly. Nevertheless, I still occiasionally pay a visit.  I would not dismiss returning to the server if the issues raised in this topic were tackled. So yes, this concerns me as much as it concerns you.

You can disagree, but what I said isn't wrong, or can you convince me it is?

Sure, I haven't even played for an hour myself even, but that's because my internet connection is bad, and quite frankly it gets boring IG really quickly, which I'm sure you already know.

[Bruce.]

Long story short, we need stuff to keep players busy.

[Huntsman]

it gets boring IG really quickly

One of the factors as well. Due to the fact everyone so busy dm'ing over weedfields and grinding money, there is literally nothing to do if you are not involved with a mafia. I can imagine it isn't much fun for cops either to constantly be absorbed into these endless wars over the weed plants.

You get in game, and there's complete silence. Even in the mainchat, which used to be one of the more fun aspects of the game. I can't count how many fun roleplay interactions I had with the most random people in the streets back in the day. Nowadays nobody wants to interact, all they want is to increase their e-penis by either killing someone or earning money. Most of the times I tried to approach someone for some roleplay I was either ignored, pushed away or even attacked.

Yet once again I am of the opinion scripts are not to blame. RS4 had plenty of ways to grind money too. Didn't seem to be a problem. In the end those were the scripts people asked for, those are the scripts they got. IT's always easy to shift the blame on someone else.

[Stivi]

One of the factors as well. Due to the fact everyone so busy dm'ing over weedfields and grinding money, there is literally nothing to do if you are not involved with a mafia. I can imagine it isn't much fun for cops either to constantly be absorbed into these endless wars over the weed plants.

I am part of a mafia, your arguments make no sense dude. What the fuck is it with you and weedfields, that's not the problem with money or this topic, why are you doing this?

Yet once again I am of the opinion scripts are not to blame. RS4 had plenty of ways to grind money too. Didn't seem to be a problem. In the end those were the scripts people asked for, those are the scripts they got. IT's always easy to shift the blame on someone else.

Because I say HQ is at fault, I'm not shifting the blame. I'm toxic as fuck, but that doesn't mean I don't care or what I say is wrong, only how I say it. HQ has the power to change stuff, they aren't, they listen to the players, but they listen to whatever is requested the most. The majority is always wrong, because the majority of people are dumbasses, not smart ones.

[Norrage]

HQ has the power to change stuff, they aren't, they listen to the players, but they listen to whatever is requested the most. The majority is always wrong, because the majority of people are dumbasses, not smart ones.

@Grimbeorn @Bengt @Brian I think we have a new candidate for top-elite HQ member.

Please, show me how you would handle situations Stivi.

[Kowalski.]

Why not just get rid of the unnecessary scripts, and find ways to make money harder.

What is the point in randomly farming? Where's the effort?

[Chase]

PLEASE STOP blaming each other for certain things, and stop saying "can't be fixed, oh well". This is how you achieve nothing. Instead someone please DO reply on this topic for economic overhaul. Then we can have some constructive discussion and maybe reach some sort of mutual agreement.

[TheGreasyChopper]

Yeah, I hope I'm not beating a dead horse in here, but an overall script overhaul of the economics won't work. The problem is with the playerbase's mentality, rather than the script itself. The whole phenomenon started around late 2017 when most people contributing and actually postively influencing roleplay either left the server or gave up and went together with the others for the status quo.

People are being kicked/warned even banned for "Not here to roleplay", yet most of the active playerbase and "groups" are not here to roleplay and do not get any sort of punishment for it, they are not being encouraged to roleplay.

Call me an elitist, old timer or whatever you want, but if all you do while in game is to grind drugs, kidnap people and buy properties you never open for the public, you are not roleplaying. The term "Cancer" is pretty much the closest I can compare this majority of players. It is all "Mafia RP" without much roleplaying or character development going on. Enforce people to develop their characters. Yeah, if there are 5 people online and some AFK, be my guest - take your journey ontop of Chilliad or wherever your hideout is, cook some meth, grow a field or what not. But when there are 20 players online, half if not more of them parts of a "Mafia" or "Gang", all they do is grind drugs or kidnap people. Hell, with how things work today, I'm starting to miss all these endless pages of Cops vs Criminals arguments on forums, fighting for script support...

This is the problem we are facing, not scripts, not economics. RS4 economics were FUBAR, but things worked, people roleplayed, lack of Roleplay is what is killing the server. Start enforcing rules about the roleplay(Introduce a regulation on metagaming and powergaming[in both of Powergaming aspects - play2win as well as overpowering and being a superhero). Now before you call me out and say this won't work on Argonath...Argonath ain't working pretty well lately, perhaps we should try moving on and giving it a chance, eh?

[Chase]

Yeah, I hope I'm not beating a dead horse in here, but an overall script overhaul of the economics won't work. The problem is with the playerbase's mentality, rather than the script itself. The whole phenomenon started around late 2017 when most people contributing and actually postively influencing roleplay either left the server or gave up and went together with the others for the status quo.

People are being kicked/warned even banned for "Not here to roleplay", yet most of the active playerbase and "groups" are not here to roleplay and do not get any sort of punishment for it, they are not being encouraged to roleplay.

Call me an elitist, old timer or whatever you want, but if all you do while in game is to grind drugs, kidnap people and buy properties you never open for the public, you are not roleplaying. The term "Cancer" is pretty much the closest I can compare this majority of players. It is all "Mafia RP" without much roleplaying or character development going on. Enforce people to develop their characters. Yeah, if there are 5 people online and some AFK, be my guest - take your journey ontop of Chilliad or wherever your hideout is, cook some meth, grow a field or what not. But when there are 20 players online, half if not more of them parts of a "Mafia" or "Gang", all they do is grind drugs or kidnap people. Hell, with how things work today, I'm starting to miss all these endless pages of Cops vs Criminals arguments on forums, fighting for script support...

This is the problem we are facing, not scripts, not economics. RS4 economics were FUBAR, but things worked, people roleplayed, lack of Roleplay is what is killing the server. Start enforcing rules about the roleplay(Introduce a regulation on metagaming and powergaming[in both of Powergaming aspects - play2win as well as overpowering and being a superhero). Now before you call me out and say this won't work on Argonath...Argonath ain't working pretty well lately, perhaps we should try moving on and giving it a chance, eh?

I agree. It's a slim chance it will work but I rather at least try before giving up. Unfortunately I don't make the rules or decide how they're enforced. That's something @Brian has to try to fix. I'm going to do everything within my power to make things better but yes, in the end HQ has to make some changes too.

[Shorty.]

Really silly to see players who don't play SA:MP daily commenting about such stuff and comparing them to VC:MP and IV:MP, you just throw few comments, blame a specific player/group then fly away then a shit storm happen.

It's simple, you don't play SA:MP daily, you don't know what players are facing daily, you don't know what players lack of from the server, and most importantly you don't know how HQ run things, HQ take the major vote out of " Ideas and Suggestions section " and start to work on the most supported idea, some of are good, some are bad.

You simply run your mouth in things you are not expert in, or know how to fix it it's the summarize of what i've read in the previous pages. Are you aware that groups we used to have were the MAIN interest on this server? You are aware that GROUPS make players die to join 'em, just to roll with them and roleplay with them? where are those lovely groups? gone..

Instead of adding weird rules to make players obey them [ RULES THAT FORCE PLAYERS TO INTERACT ] just to do few /me and /l then end it the way they want, try to show the players the entertaining part in roleplaying, @Twenty i saw you few times IG, chatting on /p riding your pink bullet doing stunts near by LSCH then blowing up, that's all you do on SA:MP never saw you roleplaying, @Huntsman Same goes for you, but you either go afk or fuck around as a freecop.

The improvement should start from players, not scripts, RS5's scripts are awesome, but they're being exploited to gain money instead of roleplaying and gaining money. NO ONE on this server even tried to start something unique, i mean there's 3 Italian mafias on the server  WHY ?

This is way out of the main subject, cuz everyone thinks he's a god among us, and he's always right, i've been in here since 2011 and i'm sure about what i'm writing, there's no more interest on this server, because of the following :
1/ MOST of the players with powers ( moderators + ) exploit their powers to help their side/group.
2/ HQ is trying to raise the playerbase INSTEAD of focusing on supporting quality players/ideas.
3/ Niggas been using cheats to feed their MUST win mentality < i mean it's a game, why would you always win ?
Typical roleplays same roleplayers, same scenarios, 99.9 % of the roleplays end up with bullets, no one is willing to leave someone alive to respond in a next RP, everyone wants to win... I KNOW it's sad how argonath ended, but it's the SAD truth. Let's hope argonath won't end at such a point.. And if someone have something useful provide it through this topic, if not don't run your mouth and pointing at the wrong players/groups talking shit just to feed their personal thoughts..

[Norrage]

Really silly to see players who don't play SA:MP daily commenting about such stuff and comparing them to VC:MP and IV:MP, you just throw few comments, blame a specific player/group then fly away then a shit storm happen.

It's simple, you don't play SA:MP daily, you don't know what players are facing daily, you don't know what players lack of from the server, and most importantly you don't know how HQ run things, HQ take the major vote out of " Ideas and Suggestions section " and start to work on the most supported idea, some of are good, some are bad.

You simply run your mouth in things you are not expert in, or know how to fix it it's the summarize of what i've read in the previous pages. Are you aware that groups we used to have were the MAIN interest on this server? You are aware that GROUPS make players die to join 'em, just to roll with them and roleplay with them? where are those lovely groups? gone..

Instead of adding weird rules to make players obey them [ RULES THAT FORCE PLAYERS TO INTERACT ] just to do few /me and /l then end it the way they want, try to show the players the entertaining part in roleplaying, @Twenty i saw you few times IG, chatting on /p riding your pink bullet doing stunts near by LSCH then blowing up, that's all you do on SA:MP never saw you roleplaying, @Huntsman Same goes for you, but you either go afk or fuck around as a freecop.

The improvement should start from players, not scripts, RS5's scripts are awesome, but they're being exploited to gain money instead of roleplaying and gaining money. NO ONE on this server even tried to start something unique, i mean there's 3 Italian mafias on the server  WHY ?

This is way out of the main subject, cuz everyone thinks he's a god among us, and he's always right, i've been in here since 2011 and i'm sure about what i'm writing, there's no more interest on this server, because of the following :
1/ MOST of the players with powers ( moderators + ) exploit their powers to help their side/group.
2/ HQ is trying to raise the playerbase INSTEAD of focusing on supporting quality players/ideas.
3/ Niggas been using cheats to feed their MUST win mentality < i mean it's a game, why would you always win ?
Typical roleplays same roleplayers, same scenarios, 99.9 % of the roleplays end up with bullets, no one is willing to leave someone alive to respond in a next RP, everyone wants to win... I KNOW it's sad how argonath ended, but it's the SAD truth. Let's hope argonath won't end at such a point.. And if someone have something useful provide it through this topic, if not don't run your mouth and pointing at the wrong players/groups talking shit just to feed their personal thoughts..

I did not compare anything to IV:MP as I perfectly know it is not comparable. I returned to Argonath in 2015 and ever since I have been shocked about the SA:MP server, reaching its maximum point about 6 months ago. I do not play SA:MP daily, true. But atleast when I am ingame (mostly even weekly), I see enough shit coming by to make the conclusion that the general mentality is more shit than before or in any other Argonath server.

I am not an expert in running a server or changing mentality, but the fun thing is, neither are you or are any other players. Thats why I asked Stivi to show us since HQ has fucked up according to him.

As for the driving around: exactly, that is how I relax on a server with a mentality where noone wants to RP. When I returned in 2015, I did not own anything. I started some roleplays, but quickly lost faith in other players due to their mentality and fucked up roleplay level. Do you think I am willing to continue getting fed up by players who either always roleplay to win or kill? No thank you. Thats why I decided to go on and relax how I want it.

If there is a damn roleplay happening, I will participate in it. Either it be a car crash or a damn medic, as long as players don’t troll or come destroy the roleplay with their shit RP, I will roleplay as best as possible, the roleplay I learned back in 2008 in a fun environment.

As for noone tried something unique, doesn’t UBER, accepting rockstars by audition, medical checks sound unique to you? I stopped thinking of unique shit because of the lack of people willing to participate. I cannot change the server alone, even if I wanted and tried to.

As for SA:MP in general, you should stop pretending like you are the superior server in Argonath. I know SA:MP made the community big, but please. Telling community members to fuck off to their servers they play on the most is a fucked up egoïsm way to keep SA:MP at the top. Face it; it is not anymore and if the playerbase continues to be like this, it will never.

As said, before players’ mentality change and roleplay picks up again, I won’t return either anymore. You guys should think as a goddamn community for once instead of SA:MP egoïsm.

I sincerely hope current HQ either fixes the mess created by the players, wakes up Gandalf for real to fix this or plug out, or make the server an enjoyable place again. Untill then, bye.

[djole]

idk why you're all still trying to change argonath... if you want to play on a proper hard rp server go for it, but this isn't one and it never will be. nobody is stopping you from RPing however you wish within your group but don't try to force other people to play the game the way you think it should be played

[JDC]

Please just fuck off back to IVMP

All but one of your replies to this topic, @AK47, have had no good points or substance to them. Perhaps instead of telling people to fuck off and being part of the problem mentality that's slashed our playercount in half, you can put your years of experience to good use and contribute something positive to the solution?

That also goes for everyone else who tried turning this topic into yet another dick-measuring contest. If you people have the energy to identify and complain about the problem, then unless your skull and/or balls are only filled with air there is no reason why you cannot participate in fixing it.

But ignoring those posts, I am glad plenty of sensible points were raised in the discussion and I commend those of you who did. This is why I still have faith in this community. I've made my own set of suggestions to Chase's topic, with a mix of ideas.

Spoiler for Suggestions:

Here are some ideas from others, as well as some ideas of my own. A mix of positive (incentive) and negative (deterrent) reinforcements.

1. Stricter property checks on inactive players, done by either script, admins / HQ, or a combination of both. If a player is found to have a consistent (to spare players who go inactive for better reasons than to be useless asset hoarders) pattern of inactivity yet paying property taxes (e.g. less than 10 hours played a month for 3 hours in a row, or some variation thereof) then they will lose their properties.

If you want to be even stricter on this, perhaps even add an indefinite property-buying ban on players who lose their property that way until they can improve their activity, say by achieving X hours in one month. Some may complain, but the only way they can have this imposed on them in the first place is by being inactive for several months while still paying taxes. (a.k.a. hoarding. If you won't play, leave properties to the active guys)

2. Penalize inactive groups. If the group and its members are barely active, maybe they can lose a group vehicle or two. Or all of them. If you don't contribute as a group, expect reduced support as a group. A whole parking lot full of vehicles belonging to some group that barely plays isn't a pleasant sight.

3. Re-add a hard limit on properties. 3 of each type? 4? 5? Or implement a soft limit on properties through additional property licenses. If you want to go further, combine both. Back when assets had limits, players put more thought into deciding what vehicles and properties they wanted instead of splashing money everywhere.

4. Additional benefits for regularly-active groups based on the quality of their player interaction, instead of the raw hours played. This would require periodical monitoring and support by staff, but can also be a motivation for groups to up their originality game. It might be something they really want (within limits of server and HQ policy), maybe even negotiated by HQ with qualifying groups on a case-to-case basis.

5. Give more rewards to players for helping newbies at the discretion of HQ (maybe senior admins too), if possible. Like #4, this will be evaluated by the quality of the output, so you don't have regulars running around just directing newbies to get phone, CB radio, GPS, and begging for handouts from HQ after. Logistically speaking this may be hard, but it can make regulars more motivated to further grow our playerbase properly.

6. Maybe reward players for consistently outstanding RPs. The standard on this should be high and it should be clear that these are given out at HQ's discretion, so people don't just spam forums with pictures and ask admins for money / other rewards. Of course, there is the same logistical challenges as #4 and #5.

7. Weaken drug prices. Money is heavily imbalanced in favor of the criminals. It will hurt plenty (including me, who also uses meth to fund my RP activities) but maybe people will start thinking of doing more than cooking all the time. The jokes about meth cooking ("i cook for my mom" "im doing uhh... math, yes math") have become far more creative than the meth process itself, and that's not a good thing.

8. Review and proportionally increase all current money penalties on the server (e.g. dying, getting jailed / busted by cops, court fines, etc.) with players who have loads of money losing more. The more filthy rich the player, the bigger the penalties.

9. Add financial penalties for server tempbans and permbans, also proportional to players' networth. As a safeguard for ban cases where the admins are at fault, give Managers+ / Devs the option to reverse the financial penalty. If it's the admin's fault, the player gets money back. If the player is at fault, they don't. And if it's a rich player who loses a lot, then they should know better (as someone who played long enough to get fithy rich) than to break rules and get banned.

10. Add a better way to analyze and review the cashflow on server if you HQ does not have one already. Observing the economic stats (or even visualizing them somewhere, like panel) can help devs better addresss imbalances. <yeah-science-bitch.gif>

TL;DR:
• More penalties on bans and inactivity
• Reward quality interaction and quality teaching of newbies
• Add more money sinks
• Statistics <yeah-science-bitch.gif>

Even if we may not find the solution we are looking for in this series of discussions (or the next, and the next after that) it is the direction we are going in that counts. Let's do something that matters.

[Andeey]

Reading over this topic and speeding through multiple points made i have a few things to say..

Paydays - A proposal for paydays to be removed, I do agree that the payday command that is used by HQ has little to no need, We have enough generous players and a /sponsor command which does not bring any spawned money into the server, Well /payday does use server money gained from taxes and what not which is basically spawned since the money in the server is astronomical.

Players mindset over money - A lot of people do believe money is everything, I mean i was once one of those players who would do anything for money but from personal experience i can say to those greedy jewball players who will suck anyone off for $50k pixel money it is not worth it not even slightly..

And sure a few players will see i have multiple expensive properties and think im still the same but i bought most of my properties after slowly working my way through roleplay and drugs, It took me around 2 years of hard work to get what i have right now and it was done through having fun, not 24/7 casino playing or no lifing drug fields/TDM.

A little advice to people who feel money is the only form of power in Argonath..

Find a group you get along with, That you can trust, That you feel is fun in your own way and if you can't then just start your own unique roleplaying group and focus on the fun roleplay environment that you can create, MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING.

And sure we can make script changes and increase taxes and limit property ownership which will only work to some extent, The real basis of the issue is in the mind of the community, Once people can learn to see that there is more to the game then money and ownership we will really start to make change.