[PERM DENIAL]Nathan banned by Marshall_Kings

[Khm]

So you admit that there was an active witch hunt by two unhappy CLs (one who has no part in SA:MP)? Let's call this what it is. CLs unhappy that I was unbanned and looking for any reason whatsoever to get rid of me. Even with my changed attitude and strive to bring positivity, this seems a bit far fetched, don't you think?

You are not as special as you think to be hand picked and be witch hunted just for the lols although that happened in the old times (probably by the same HQ people that broke core community rules), this doesn't happen nowadays. Excusing your shit actions with that also won't work. If you thought that what you did was "LEGAL" as you say or right in a more proper way then why did you try to hide what you did by flooding the purchase action to buy tomato seeds where you could have bought them in bulk in just one second? This just proves you really felt that what you were doing was wrong but you carried it out anyways.
Returning to the witch hunt point, since you haven't noticed already; we monitor the server 24/7. Logs are viewed all the time literally line by line and every player is monitored which is why we can easily find out any fuck up that is done and the result of this is the current good environment that we have. Some would react "EMRGHED wHy SpY oN uS" or "eMeRgHed nOw hE wiLl bAn uS foR hAvInG aN opIniOn". Honestly I don't give a shit about anyone's opinion, if you hate me and wanna shit on me so be it I don't care as long as it stays between you and the circle you talking with and not trying to influence other people. Almost the same goes to regular rule breaks, if you've solved it with the other player why would you want stuff to butt in?
So please, drop this special snowflake attitude and quit this self righteousness, you're just digging yourself a deeper grave. You're shitting on the only people that can unban you.

As for the intentions you spoke about, no one really cares about what you display public. Anyone could sell himself as some angel that wants no bad for someone or something, what really matters is the inside intention which is something you proved yourself, you only had shit intentions and wanted to abuse a script that was not intended to be used like that so you can go over people that are working really hard to overcome the economic crisis we had on the server because of people like you in the past.

Why the CLs are involved you might ask.
I found out about what you did on a regular check and had Brian and Kessu to look into with me since you knew what you were doing and tried to hide what you did (much for your public "good intention" campaign).

No one in his right mind would keep buying one single item over and over just out of boredom for 20 minutes straight. The script clearly offers you to buy in bulk in just one second to avoid wasting time which again shows that you didn't have good intentions at all.

Also, since you checked the logs, did you notice how I was checking profit for almost two hours last night? This is the exact reason why I was doing what I was doing. Not looking to flood the logs or whatever you're trying to accuse me of.

Oh please, quit this bullshit. No one even mentioned the purchase and sale of properties, you were checking every property's profit to acquire the profit that is stored in them from previous owners and that clearly has nothing to do with flooding, buying tomato seeds however...

If you want to ignore everything I posted above, please just read this piece.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear: I honestly do have better things to do in real life but I spend my time here. This is the place where I retreat from my real life.

In case you didn't know In real life, I'm a CEO of a $x million dollar company in real life. I'm in charge of over a good number of employees. I'm also married and a father of two kids.

My time is limited and I only use it on what I think is important to me. I spend my time on Argonath because it's important to me.

I don't care, not my issue.

Again. I feel personally attacked and witch hunted. I used what I legally received for my advantage legally. Had I done something more evil, like exploit an actual bug or something similar, then the ban is justified.

If we're being honest, it seems like this is vendetta against me being unbanned by Aragorn instead of going through the channel where I was told no for several months (over 9 months).

wRONg again. I was free to decide whether to unban you or no from SA:MP, if it was a vendetta the CLs would have community banned you back on the spot but you're only banned on SA:MP for something you did on SA:MP to gain advantage over others from spawned stuff.

If you read it carefully, this was a welcomed change by many players. It meant the server could move forward. I then have donated slowly over $500+ USD for this cause. This resulted in these items being provided to me. With the money given, Teddy started to turn the server around. It's also an open secret but SEVERAL HQ members spawn money for themselves in the past. Devs also spawned money for various causes just to keep things going.

Again, I feel the ban was unwarranted and at best, grasping at straws. I personally believe there is a conspiracy to get rid of me due to my polarizing (and rather open) views. I have no shame in calling out things as they are - bullshit. If you wanted to get rid of me, just tell me directly instead of going through this whole route of witch hunting ("reviewing logs everyday just to make sure everything is 'okay'").

You have no shame in calling out things as they are (although wRONg there's no bullshit) you also have no shame by trying to justify a major rulebreak you've committed and still covering it up and lying with useless excuses. If we wanted to get rid of you, I wouldn't even have allowed you back in. You were unbanned from the community and you were told to make an unban request on other servers if you wanted to access them in which you did so enough of that excuse either.

I used a system that existed for its intention. These items were not removed from my inventory

You used a system that's supposed to give people a discount of 80k from buying vehicles not to spawn 15 millions with 400+ vehicle vouchers that were spawned.

I used a system that existed for its intention. These items were not removed from my inventory - the same way how Khm was able to use his access to sell weed and make money to purchase a farm, a PnS, and other stuff rather quickly after the reset. As others have noted, some other players ALSO used similar methods (past existing items in their inventory) to gain some money back.

Again with the bullshit, I did not use "my" access, I'm in a criminal group like anyone else and did the same thing as anyone else. The reset only removed money, properties and SPAWNED items that I had to manually fetch and the amount of shit that I found on you is more ridiculous than the vehicle vouchers and they were again spawned, not reward crate gifts.

Now, if the issue is with the amount itself and that it could potentially fuck up the economy or somehow give me an advantage - this is a moot point. The economy is already fucked by default when you don't do a true "reset". But if you really don't like me having millions and yet rig the system in your favor by purchasing highly valued properties to make even more money, then that's hypocritical and proves my original point - grasping at straws to quickly get rid of me 2 weeks after I was just unbanned.

The amount of bullshit you spit is insane, I do not own "valuable" properties. I do not even own a mansion, I'm holding an ammunation for someone else and have my own one and also have a cheap warehouse in blueberry near my farm that I've acquired after over a month of work.


Let's go back to Andeey's topic just to again prove you wrong.

Now, there were questions about the legality of these reward crates (Where did they come from?). Andeey introduced these in this thread: https://www.argonathrpg.eu/index.php?topic=125447.195. (Took screenshots as well so that you don't remove this thread).

You've paid $500 according to you here

Spoiler for Hiden:

Attaching screenshots of proof, hiding only the name to protect real life identity:

According to Andeey's topic, if you pay $50 you will get a various of gifts, one of them is maximum of 5 RewardCrate T1. Meaning if you paid $500, you would get 50 RewardCrate T1. According to the script, chances are you can only get MAXIMUM of 4 vehicle vouchers if you have 100 RewardCrate T1. And there's a %100 sure chance to get ONE vehicle voucher in the 1st 11 rewardcrates opened. Meaning there's no way in hell you would get over 400 vehicle vouchers from rewardcrates. I forgot to mention the 300 vehicle licenses, you can't get these from any rewards.

Your excuse of you "legally" acquiring these items also fall to the ground. These items have been spawned and therefore they should be removed. You knew this and have done it anyways and you tried to hide it by spamming the purchase of tomato seeds for over 20 minutes to hide the transaction log on the panel although you could have done it in just one second by buying in bulk.

So Nathan I still have the choice to either keep you banned or unban you and I can decide that right on this minute but I really would like for @Aragorn to see all of the bullshit you've done since he requested to deal with you if you've done anything after unbanning you. I suggest advise you though to quit the moronic act you're doing by sending messages across discord servers and to people's DMs and act like an angel with your manipulative methods to drag public's attention to you, that won't help you get support from people to buy the community from the owners in the future infact you're just exposing your shit intentions. Cut the drama and own up.

[Nathan]

I have nothing else to say to you. Again, I was given these crates (not something I spawned myself or given myself or whatever you want to accuse me of). I was given these items by a previous administration. If I'm guilty of something they given me, then it's clearly their fault, not mine. Want to ban them too?

A lot of baseless accusations without any logical proof - basically just rushing to conclusions, trying to prove "intent" that doesn't exist. I stated clearly on what I did and how I did it. You then put your own intent on it as if I was trying to have some nefarious intent on trying to destroy the server with $15m.

Then, when pressured on why you yourself have some of the most "precious" or most "valued" items in game, without ever needing to "grind" for them, you use the exact same claim as myself, that you had access to this stuff - again unfair access that not EVERYONE has. So which one is it, then? Using the script as intended for our advantages or not? Pick a side.

Lastly and most important part: Isn't it shameful to try to kill whatever is remaining of the server? We get max, what, 15 players? You yourself messaged me directly asking for suggestions as part of my unban. Want a suggestion? Stop trying to kill off whatever is remaining on the activity of the server. Every action you take matters, and calling active players "manipulative assholes who are trying to act like angels" isn't a welcoming or nice environment to want to stay in.

Next steps: Waiting for a response from @Aragorn. I'm no longer interested in the discourse when I get accused of something I didn't do and then called a bunch of shit.

[Nathan]

I no longer have any interest in coming back to SA:MP while things are being run the way they are by Khm.

This is not how you build up a community. This is not how you help grow your player base.

I will not be forced to admit something I didn’t do and in the meantime have shit splashed over me for the amusement and entertainment of the current administration.

Active and potential players: take note on how you will be treated after over 10 years of activity.

Please close this request.

[Brian]

As I have not had the chance to reply to your accusations, and respond to what you are accused of, I will do that before things are archived so it may be used in the future.

First and foremost, if you took any time whatsoever all these years to learn to get to know the other people in this community you would of known I barely have a grain of hatred in my body,  it's a wasted emotion, I was in your position many times in the past, was banned up to 8 times, I lied, I made up evidence, I went to other people to get my way, but in the end the thing that worked for me and got me to where I am has always been the truth.

Yes, you are right, I was rather annoyed at you because you tried to get unbanned through the community leaders, a ban which you admitted was valid. I wasn't even active when you were banned, I had 0 input in your original ban, and tried my best to talk to the others to get you a fair vote for an unban.
Like you know, a majority of the leaders involved voted no, they did not feel you were ready to be unbanned globally yet, but on your request, we allowed you to send an appeal in with Khm, to see if you could be unbanned on SAMP.
Instead, a few weeks after we told you this, and on the first sign of the return of the owners, you took your chance to get unbanned. My response was not kind, but I rectified that shortly after, and at the end of our conversation, I said this.

Owners might take one approach but that'll always remain my goal, I wasn't around when you were actually banned but I have had to deal with some of the aftermath so in my book things are squared for now, but servers or services and their leaders remain free to take their own decision

On which you replied.

Sounds good. Yes, definitely want to have a nice community. No more toxicity bs. Please let me know how I can help.

I was not involved on your previous ban, and I was barely involved in your current ban. I was asked for my opinion, I gave it, I suggested Khm to talk to Kessu. And, just before you were banned I was asked for my opinion again, and that was that.

As for the reason you are banned, and why I too agreed with a ban is as following.

Your account was cleared of almost all possessions, we left a few vehicles (lots of duplicates and spawned vehicles were removed), your cash, bank accounts, and properties were double checked, and we removed any item in mass amount from your inventory.
We how ever missed your vehicle discount tokens, especially since they were not as common in such large amounts.

You in itself using these to spawn yourself 15 million wasn't that bad, sure we were surprised, and at first worried where the money came from. But like you said yourself, you were given this by previous HQ members, we can't blame you for their actions.
But, what we can blame you for is the fact that you tried to hide it, from your panel logs, it was clear to us that you were aware that what you were doing was not right, your logs show us that your intention was to attempt to hide your actions from us, large amounts of transactions were made in an attempt to obscure the panel logs.
Also, after knowing you for years, and as you said yourself, you run a successful business. Would know that spawning in 15 million after an economy reset, as well as having over four hundred vehicle discount tickets, wasn't something that was an intended mechanic for that script.

I think at the end of the day, you overestimated how much we care about you. You were given a chance to prove we were wrong about you, and prove to us your intentions are good.
Instead you have chosen to blame us. You blame people in charge of a community, in charge of a server, for looking after it, something you said yourself was an issue in the past and was a reason you wanted to take over.

Khm, a HQ member was on the panel and saw you had a projected networth of 17 million, after only playing 20 hours since you were unbanned, something that wasn't there during a previous check.
Khm goes to his friends and colleagues to ask them if they can help you with checking something out. Khm and colleague were greeted in the logs with tomato seeds, and dozens of property sales.
Khm and his colleague dig through the logs and eventually find the reason of what happened, the player gets banned for breaking server rules.

That's what happened, that's how situations go, you weren't witch hunted, people don't hate you, we don't want to keep you out of the community. I had not heard or brought up your name until I was asked to help find how you got 17 million.

What you could have done to avoid all of this, check in with Khm to see if you were supposed to have those tokens. He would've probably taken 420 of them, and you would've kept a few.
Or, you could abused the script, we saw you got 17 million, and we would remove the money from you, and told you off.

Instead you tried to, stupidly, cover up a stack of money worth 17 million, with a couple hundred tomato seeds and property contracts.


Nathan, I would like to wish you the very best, like I said before, no hard feelings, I just hope with this piece of text I am able to make you understand things a bit better from our side, or eventually come to closure about your current dislike for Khm, because all he did, and all he tried to do, was protect the server.

[Nathan]

Good response Brian - and I will admit - my reaction to your involvement was wrong.

That being said, it still doesn’t change the fact that - SA:MP community is dying and the current administration is effectively killing off whatever is left.

Since my ban - I’ve had numerous people DM me and also send me forum messages all in my support - but they’re afraid to say it publicly due to them being afraid of ramifications. This is a messy situation that’s not solely my fault but also the fault of this current administration who made a mistake - can’t admit to the said mistake, and instead conveniently bans anyone who might have opposing views. Khm literally has threatened players to stay in their lane or else they will face repercussions.

I don’t want to play on that kind of server. I don’t think anyone does. This is why I’m requesting to close this request.

I will admit only one thing: I used a system to my advantage and was removed because this isn’t the way the administration wants thing to run. They want to effectively reset everything - years of work, and to make everyone have to regrind for everything AGAIN. Yet, this same very administration uses their own powers to gain access to “valuable” properties within days after the reset. Kind of ironic, right?

Want to grow the community and the server? - stop asking for “ideas” and “suggestions” and instead - remove the poison that exists - a corrupt and hypocritical administration that cannot be held responsible to anything.

[Brian]

Since my ban - I’ve had numerous people DM me and also send me forum messages all in my support - but they’re afraid to say it publicly due to them being afraid of ramifications.

I've had people shit talk me in DMs of other HQ members, or people shit talk other HQ members in my DMs, and I see many of those people still actively on the community.
If any players are worried for what Nathan claims, they are free to message myself, Wdoyle or Kessu privately on the forums, Discord or we can create a group chat on Discord or use my email [email protected]. While I agree in the past there were HQ members that did ban players for those reasons, I worry you are mistaken with this being Khm.

Just in-case, I double checked all bans on SAMP from August onwards. 90%+ of the total bans are for people banned for hacking or ban evading., about 3-5% is temp bans, and the remaining are bans by other staff members and Khm for offenses not already mentioned. and I have found 3 bans done by Khm, which were repeat offending deathmatches, 2 were temp bans, 1 was a perm ban.

We are not dictators and, like I have also told you in private messages. I am trying to make this place more inclusive, less hatred, more people just having fun, together. Khm is one of the few people that agrees with me on that.

I will admit only one thing: I used a system to my advantage and was removed because this isn’t the way the administration wants thing to run. They want to effectively reset everything - years of work, and to make everyone have to regrind for everything AGAIN. Yet, this same very administration uses their own powers to gain access to “valuable” properties within days after the reset. Kind of ironic, right?

Just because two people do wrong things doesn't make one right, they're both wrong. Yet I heard about this for the first time after your ban, by you and Greasy in a Discord channel called the toilet bowl. If you do a wrong, and get caught, then blame someone else because you think they also did a wrong, that doesn't mean you didn't do a wrong.

If Khm did what he did he would be in the wrong too, and it'd be taken care of. But we can't investigate anything unless we are told about it, I checked the logs when you and Greasy spoke about it, yet didn't find anything out of the ordinary, if you have more information about it you are more than welcome to forward it to me, and so is anyone else that thinks things aren't going as they should.

Want to grow the community and the server? - stop asking for “ideas” and “suggestions” and instead - remove the poison that exists - a corrupt and hypocritical administration that cannot be held responsible to anything.

I think you are forgetting something important, the person you claim to be a "poison" was actually the one affected by the things you claim.
Khm was the most active manager SAMP had at the time, he was working on new project, making sure groups were maintained, and was, to me a very hard working manager. He was removed for absolutely no reason because people spread false rumors about him, or because people didn't like his ethnicity.
This administration is actually being held responsible for once, there are actually people trying to make sure things go fairly, and people that want whats best for the community for once. For once stop blaming others and look at yourself, if you constantly blame others actions for what you decide to do you'll never be able to improve yourself.

I didn't start where I am now, I had to work to be the person I am, I used to blame others for my own actions. I blamed Murt for banning me because I shot him after he turned on aduty.
I blamed Reece for banning me many years ago after I raced him with a bike and used a speed hack as a joke.
But those people did not do anything wrong, they were just doing what we, the community asked them to do, remove people that do not want to play along with the rules, and make this a fun experience for everyone.

Want to grow to be a better person? Stop blaming everyone else, start looking at your own actions. Things won't always go the way you want, or the way I want, things will just go a way. All we can do is try to do what we think is best, with the advice and experience of others, together as a community. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution, because to me, the only one spreading poison, negativity, and hypocrisy right now is you.

[Nathan]

Want to grow to be a better person? Stop blaming everyone else, start looking at your own actions. Things won't always go the way you want, or the way I want, things will just go a way. All we can do is try to do what we think is best, with the advice and experience of others, together as a community. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution, because to me, the only one spreading poison, negativity, and hypocrisy right now is you.

Typically I'd admit when I know I am in the wrong but in this case but in this case - there was a clear oversight by administration.

I don't have an agenda to hate or make people upset or to do anything to cause this server harm. I want to have fun and try to enjoy the server as others have.

I do believe that blame should be placed though where it's due. This is why I keep bringing up the same themes: the very same administration that decided to remove everything from everyone, decided to use their "advantages" to quickly take hold of valuable properties. It's hypocrisy at it's finest. And I will continue to call it out when I see it happen. I will not be silent about it.


As part of the reset, everyone should had everything non-essential removed yet some had drugs left over, others had cases left over, etc. There was no clear guidance outside of "this is what we think they should have left". In a similar manner, I had these vouchers left over and used them to make some money back.

Had it been a clear case of me cheating money or abusing a bug - then it's clear why I should be banned. In this case though, it's muddy. I used something left over that someone else forgot to remove. So therefore I had full advantage to use it as intended. Same way how people had cannabis seeds and other stuff available to them. My personal conscious is in the clear here. I felt I was wronged and therefore demand justice to be done fair. I used what was available to me after this "reset".

So I'd like to purpose a compromise: remove the money and unban me without forcing me to admit guilt.

[Khm]

Want to grow to be a better person? Stop blaming everyone else, start looking at your own actions. Things won't always go the way you want, or the way I want, things will just go a way. All we can do is try to do what we think is best, with the advice and experience of others, together as a community. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution, because to me, the only one spreading poison, negativity, and hypocrisy right now is you.

As part of the reset, everyone should had everything non-essential removed yet some had drugs left over, others had cases left over, etc. There was no clear guidance outside of "this is what we think they should have left". In a similar manner, I had these vouchers left over and used them to make some money back.

Had it been a clear case of me cheating money or abusing a bug - then it's clear why I should be banned. In this case though, it's muddy. I used something left over that someone else forgot to remove. So therefore I had full advantage to use it as intended. Same way how people had cannabis seeds and other stuff available to them. My personal conscious is in the clear here. I felt I was wronged and therefore demand justice to be done fair. I used what was available to me after this "reset".

So I'd like to purpose a compromise: remove the money and unban me without forcing me to admit guilt.

I don't blame you on that one since you weren't able to access forums or discord when it happened but everything was explained and people were pleased with it when it happened however since it seems you haven't read my whole post I will re-post the following to explain a point.
Everything that was spawned has been removed, items that people obtained in a normal way were not removed however some have had their amounts reduced to not break the economy, including myself with weapons since I was a criminal and had thousands of cases on me.

You've paid $500 according to you here

Spoiler for Hiden:

Attaching screenshots of proof, hiding only the name to protect real life identity:

According to Andeey's topic, if you pay $50 you will get a various of gifts, one of them is maximum of 5 RewardCrate T1. Meaning if you paid $500, you would get 50 RewardCrate T1. According to the script, chances are you can only get MAXIMUM of 4 vehicle vouchers if you have 100 RewardCrate T1. And there's a %100 sure chance to get ONE vehicle voucher in the 1st 11 rewardcrates opened. Meaning there's no way in hell you would get over 400 vehicle vouchers from rewardcrates. I forgot to mention the 300 vehicle licenses, you can't get these from any rewards.

Your excuse of you "legally" acquiring these items also fall to the ground. These items have been spawned and therefore they should be removed. You knew this and have done it anyways and you tried to hide it by spamming the purchase of tomato seeds for over 20 minutes to hide the transaction log on the panel although you could have done it in just one second by buying in bulk.

No one is trying to hinder anyone and the HQ has always been in touch with almost all players, no one has been banned or punished for having an opinion. The only warning that was given is to not spread false information to the others to not make players leave like it happened before since that only leads to toxicity within the community and that's something we obviously don't want.

[Nathan]

So I'd like to purpose a compromise: remove the money and unban me without forcing me to admit guilt.

I feel this is the best outcome. I lose on everything I earned but I'm not forced to admit something or say something I don't believe in.

[Brian]

I do believe that blame should be placed though where it's due. This is why I keep bringing up the same themes: the very same administration that decided to remove everything from everyone, decided to use their "advantages" to quickly take hold of valuable properties. It's hypocrisy at it's finest. And I will continue to call it out when I see it happen. I will not be silent about it.

As part of the reset, everyone should had everything non-essential removed yet some had drugs left over, others had cases left over, etc. There was no clear guidance outside of "this is what we think they should have left".

Server resets are common in various roleplaying communities, while I admit that on Argonath, and SAMP, wipes are not as common, they are often necessary to keep the economy fair, fun and interesting. Usually they are done before big releases, like a new game mode but they are not as uncommon as you think.
While I myself would have been more of a fan of a complete reset, you have to understand that, like I said in a previous post, we all do what we think is right, and fair for the people, or at least we try to, and we make mistakes too.
Again, as for your mentioning of the valuable property,  on what you and Greasy said in the toiletbowl channel in Discord, I did a quick check of Khms finances and everything is true to what he claims, and has also shared in public with you already from what I know, if you have more information I'd be happy to look in to it or ask Kessu, or Haldir to do so.

In a similar manner, I had these vouchers left over and used them to make some money back.

Had it been a clear case of me cheating money or abusing a bug - then it's clear why I should be banned. In this case though, it's muddy. I used something left over that someone else forgot to remove. So therefore I had full advantage to use it as intended. Same way how people had cannabis seeds and other stuff available to them. My personal conscious is in the clear here. I felt I was wronged and therefore demand justice to be done fair. I used what was available to me after this "reset".

So I'd like to purpose a compromise: remove the money and unban me without forcing me to admit guilt.

Yes, you had these vouchers left, but it was not in a similar manner. If I recall correctly, according to calculations the maximum amount of vehicle discount tokens you should have had was under 50. You had over four hundred, there was no way we could have expected this.
Secondly, items were generally removed by running queries in databases, we searched item IDs, and removed economy breaking amounts This was done equally, to everyone.
Devs and leaders have added a lot of custom items over the years. For almost all administrations, donated items have not, and shall never exist. When we removed your items, this was also done through the database, by item IDs. It's very easy to miss an item, and most people that had the same item as you, had them in amounts of 1, to 2, as they were not as common

You told us, you wanted to play fairly, no more bullshit, just have fun on the server. Yet, in your recent messages, you say that if you find a bug, you should be able to abuse it. If there's a loophole, why not right, if I can benefit.
But you don't look at the big picture, I recall you saying you had no real interest in playing, just give a few paydays. That way, you throw a lot of money in to the economy with no reason, no role play behind it, in turn, with an average of 10-20 players, you would easily be able to give all of them 850.000 in paydays, if you wanted to do so.

That in turn makes everyone a millionaire again, and the whole economy is gone again.
You are right, for some reason, Argonath SAMP doesn't directly state, bug abusing is using any mechanic in a way it was not intended t o be used. But to me it is pretty much common sense that a player should not, in any way be able to single handedly, without any effort whatsoever, inject 17 million in to the economy. Even if, and that's an if, I Khm bought those properties like you said, I believe an ammunation. When I was a leader, and manager. And many manager and leaders before me have held properties for various reasons, may that be keeping it stocked, or ensuring it can be sold or given to someone at a later time, through roleplay reasons, or as a group reward, the money is held in the property, and in turn, doesn't affect the economy negatively. Again if you want to provide me with more information about what happened and around when I will look in to it.

But even that, sure you abused a bug, sometimes it happens, even though from your previous reply you knew it was an easy way for money, and abused it through that, the more serious offender is the fact that you made various attempts to purposely try to evade us from finding those logs in your personal history, there fore it was very clear to us you were aware this was something malicious, and should not be done. If, like you said would be here just to have some fun, be with friends, enjoy the community I would be almost certain you would not have done this, or checked in with someone first to make sure.

No one is forcing you to admit guild, we have our logs and your responses on this topic, which is ultimately what gets us where we'll end up. If the decision is not yours, it means nothing to us anyways, check the unban request history, many people have been denied because they admitted guilt but it was clear they did not mean it.

If you hadn't tried hiding how you got the money, you probably would've just had someone talk to you and the money would've been removed.
If your first reaction wasn't instantly to blame others, but to try to understand the actions you did, and the decisions made, and then made forum posts and your unban request, you would have probably been unbanned quite quickly.

Instead, you have already returned to starting the spread of toxicity, while ultimately, you have made all the decisions yourself.
You paid for millions in items.
You purposely used them after an economy reset
You tried hiding what you did in an attempt to trick staff.
Your first reaction after your ban was instantly negative, and  toxicity.
You have continued being negative all throughout the community, blaming others with no substance whatsoever.

Ultimately, if you came out with this

I will admit only one thing: I used a system to my advantage and was removed because this isn’t the way the administration wants thing to run.

as an earlier response, showed even a shred of respect for the people that manage this thing, and treated this like an actual unban request, because that is all this ultimately is, a request from you, to us, you would have probably been unbanned.

I never seen you as a bad guy, or a guy that wants to cause trouble, you have always been a guy that wants to help. But if you want to help, and be actually useful to the people you want to help, you should probably try to involve them in your ideas. You try to do so in ways that do more harm than good, and then when someone tells you off for it, or you get punished, it feels like the blame falls to those people. While if instead you involved those people in what you did and actually tried to work more as a team you would actually get to a point where you want to be with eachother.

Please believe me when I say that Kessu, Khm, Haldir or myself do not hate, or dislike you. All we are doing is acting on what we get, you were recently community banned, you got your way through a not so nice way(doing more harm than good), then on your second day back you use something that HQ missed to get your way (doing more harm than good) it points a certain picture to us, we can only act on what you give us, and if this is what we give us, we can not treat you any better than we are now.




As for your compromise, what's the compromise for us, your money will get removed either way, you used a server mechanic to do something it was not intended there would be no way you could keep the money.
We are also not asking you to admit guilt. This is an unban request, you appeal your ban to us. We tell you why you were banned, you appeal against it. We expect people that want to be unbanned to understand the reason of their ban, and learn from it, we hope from our players behavior like this does not happen again.
And that's for a normal unban request, you have taken to go outside of your unban request to spread negativity, and toxicity, so you have not only caused trouble on SAMP, but also on the forums.
And then there's also the fact you have said that you have no more interest in SAMP while it is being run by Khm. Remember, this is a ban appeal, we have to take in to account everything you share with us.


If you were to be unbanned, and that is not my decision, at least not mine alone. How can we be sure that you do not act like this again, you were unbanned with the promise that you would not bring any more toxic bs in to the community and yet you have.
Technically this was your last chance, we could community ban you again if we wanted to, you agreed to this yourself. I think you are mainly confused about the type of people we are, we have no malicious intend, we are not like some of the previous staff members, who did have that. We truely just want to try to get the best place for the players that do want to play here, even if that number is low sometimes.


At the end of the day my goal is to try and get an understanding between you and us. If you keep going around the point, and try to avoid what actually happened, we will never be able to understand your side of things. We can only offer our side, and make up our opinion about what has been presented in this topic. We are not asking you to admit guilt with us, we ask for a dialogue, with the reason your ban.

[Nathan]

I'm going to take a different approach: apologize.

I apologize for misusing a function of the server for my advantage. I did not however try to hide my intent with logs. This was never my intention and as I mentioned previously - my goal with the cash earned was to give it away and kickstart the economy since clearly nobody really wants to grind anymore after being reset yet another time. I spammed to buy tomato seeds because I wanted to prop up a business profits and later down the road, sell said business that showed "profit".

That being said, on the topic of toxicity - this is subjective. Having legitimate criticisms, I feel, should be allowed and encouraged to be brought up. I feel the moment censorship happens, this ends up not being good for anyone.

If I was truly toxic to the community, I wouldn't be here. My goal isn't to be toxic but to bring up the issue that doing things "the way they have always been done" clearly doesn't work and adding more features to a server also does not work. The issue stems from the top - players don't want to join simply because the environment is not welcoming, and the administration, who should be held in a high standard, should not bully veterans (who want to be active and want to help) by calling them "manipulative assholes".


If it's not clear, one more time: I apologize for misusing a system to get financial advantage from left behind items. I should have asked to see if I can use the items left behind but I didn't think there would any impact on but myself. I did this simply because I'm tired of having to go grind again after yet another reset. I did not however, try to "hide" anything by flooding the logs. This was never my intention and it is a hill I'm willing to die on.

The choice now stands behind you - administration. I apologized, plead my case, showed my proof, and fought earnestly to make sure I was given a fair response.

[Aragorn]

Nathan...
Are you fucking kidding me?
You were unbanned under my responsibility and all what you did - fucked up the last chance... People who are getting the last chance do not run to server to abuse scripts...
Thanks for posting private conversation with me - that is also telling me a lot about you...
Unban request is denied... I will no longer support you in this listening to the spaghettis plsplspls...
I told you clearly - that is your last chance... You crewed it up...

[Khm]

I'm going to take a different approach: apologize.

I apologize for misusing a function of the server for my advantage. I did not however try to hide my intent with logs. This was never my intention and as I mentioned previously - my goal with the cash earned was to give it away and kickstart the economy since clearly nobody really wants to grind anymore after being reset yet another time. I spammed to buy tomato seeds because I wanted to prop up a business profits and later down the road, sell said business that showed "profit".

That being said, on the topic of toxicity - this is subjective. Having legitimate criticisms, I feel, should be allowed and encouraged to be brought up. I feel the moment censorship happens, this ends up not being good for anyone.

If I was truly toxic to the community, I wouldn't be here. My goal isn't to be toxic but to bring up the issue that doing things "the way they have always been done" clearly doesn't work and adding more features to a server also does not work. The issue stems from the top - players don't want to join simply because the environment is not welcoming, and the administration, who should be held in a high standard, should not bully veterans (who want to be active and want to help) by calling them "manipulative assholes".


If it's not clear, one more time: I apologize for misusing a system to get financial advantage from left behind items. I should have asked to see if I can use the items left behind but I didn't think there would any impact on but myself. I did this simply because I'm tired of having to go grind again after yet another reset. I did not however, try to "hide" anything by flooding the logs. This was never my intention and it is a hill I'm willing to die on.

The choice now stands behind you - administration. I apologized, plead my case, showed my proof, and fought earnestly to make sure I was given a fair response.

The server's goal of play isn't grinding nor having more money than anyone else but; to have fun with others in the simplest means. As for the half-assed apology, you don't apologise to me or the Community Leaders for the script/bug abuse you've done, you apologise to the players that you kept sharing nothing but toxicity with them for trying to gain advantage over them and spitting on their faces, speaking of the toxicity. If you really weren't spreading toxicity you wouldn't have cancelled your giveaway and said that you've cancelled it because of me nor would you say that the HQ is witchhunting you and killing off the server because that's literally the definition of toxicity instead of blaming others, you should have taken 100% responsibility from the beginning. I would have really unbanned you but you proved you don't deserve any chance.
As Aragorn said. Your request to be unbanned is hereby denied, permanently. Good luck with your future endeavors I advise you to not dig yourself a deeper hole to not get another community ban.