Why did you leave?

[Comrade]

Tbh there's many reasons why I don't log in anymore. The biggest one, though, is that I feel the server went into a direction I didn't agree with. I loved RS4 and I had so much fun during the days where we had 200 people online and I had to actually wait in queue before I could join the server. Many different people, always stuff to do. Then RS5 hit, population was killed, most of my friends quit and that was that. I still came back to RS5 for a short while to try it out, and I enjoyed the notoriety and drug scripts, but there were so many other new scripts and shit like tasers etc that were now in the game, which would have made you be the server clown if you suggested it in RS4. It became so unnatural. I also hated how much advantages the cops got and how many rulebreaks they got away with due to nepotism and staff bias. And I hated how every single cop had an HDR 4K camera in their eyeball that would "record" an entire RP encounter so they could rob you on the forum courts after an RP scenario. It just became dumb.

I don't think anything will make me return at this point, unless we're reverting to RS4 scripts with a full server reset. If that would happen, I'd come just for the pure nostalgia. Probably with a different name, maybe completely undercover. Or maybe I'd try to reboot Ancelotti. I don't know. Like Grease said earlier, a time machine is what's needed here lol. Some things are just never going to be the same.

[Ratko Gavrilovic]

Not in proper format but this is the state of server you get when active players are made sick by people like that delusional "just rp it" guy and a management team that followed the political correct ":3" players, were never active themselves and slapped veterans on the fingers that made the server what it was.
Obviously like mentioned before people grow up but the state of the community today is because the main community was neglected.

[Huntsman]

that delusional "just rp it"

[Old Catzu]

Hello

Ive got GTA SA and SAMP back, due to work I will not be very active but I d like to tell you something I have not read in like 3 pages of replies (have not read any single reply though).

I ve been here for years, what Argonath made me stay is not RP, not friends, but stats.

We all love stats, we all love having millions, hitting /invent, seeing 2000 g weed and waiting for someone to deal them with.

Therefore, the reset I think made many people leave, I am pretty sure most of the people said " Im not gonna have these again, screw it."

On the other half, we grew up, naturally, quit playing games, not having time etc.

Also, good point on cops ruling the game. Indeed, I rage quit after being caught growing stuff, alright, do you have to call your buddies on discord to log in for 5 mins in the night to ruin that ? Do I have, as a criminal, to steal your weed ? We not doing a job, skip it for the sake of that person, it is not rp, it is not " I had to do it", it is about purely living with the flow of the game.

In the end, I d like to say that I came back, not very active, but for the stats, I am playing this game on this server because I am getting the feeling a game should get you when I am achieving things. You all know what kind of man, player I am, hopefully you got my point.

Everyone has his opinion, I am not expecting you to judge me or to correct me, I am 28 years old, that s what I feel about whole thing, say your word if you have to, this is my whole view over this game, server now.

Hope to see some of you in the game, maybe we share some memoriea cause I get nostalgic often when I drive by some place I remember like "isn t this place where I did that with that guy and that happened, gosh, long ago".

Kind regards.

[Kowalski.]

this is the state of server you get when active players are made sick by people like that delusional "just rp it" guy

[Kostas]

Right now ... Argonath has 0 players online, while the Mud People are like 57 at the moment. Maybe its time instead of saying why we left, we should focus on finding a way and most importantly a reason to return... If not, I believe a topic saying "Why you stayed" would be more fun to read.

[Thom]

One failing HQ after another and the whole adaptation around them, along with constant disappointment, made the experience more like forcing fun than actually having it. I used to login to have fun/let loose, not desperately chase fun/action. This plain obvious thing has been lost and it hasn't been officially recognized and tried to be taken care of, as an important factor / point of view.

There's nothing to make you feel loose, nothing to get you hooked. The fundamentals of a san andreas server have crumbled the moment people can't pair up with each other to create at least 2 solid groups.

[Badandy]

My opinion is that it's over and it will never be what it was in RS4 or even what it was in 2018, 2019 with like 50 players. Everything dies eventually

[Nathan]

.

[Bundy]

Just gotta finish my last exam, then I'll be back

[Comrade]

I don't think anything will make me return at this point, unless we're reverting to RS4 scripts with a full server reset. If that would happen, I'd come just for the pure nostalgia. Probably with a different name, maybe completely undercover. Or maybe I'd try to reboot Ancelotti. I don't know. Like Grease said earlier, a time machine is what's needed here lol. Some things are just never going to be the same.

So we tried this for one of the anniversaries a couple years back when I was in HQ for a brief period, nobody came unfortunately. It was one the saddest anniversary parties with literally 3 people logging in.

Damn, sucks to hear. Likely an advertising issue though. Can't blame it on HQ, but if I had like received an email or something I'd have checked it out and I'm sure others would as well.

[KenAdams]

Right now ... Argonath has 0 players online, while the Mud People are like 57 at the moment. Maybe its time instead of saying why we left, we should focus on finding a way and most importantly a reason to return... If not, I believe a topic saying "Why you stayed" would be more fun to read.

True..

[Hammer_]

I thought about this further and wanted to share my thoughts in a more expanded fashion.

I believe the underline problem is the lack of activity. The problem of lack of activity can be expanded into the following three reasons:

- Age of server and abilities
- Lack of inbound traffic and discoverability
- Lack of community ownership and direction


Age of server and abilities

GTA:SA was released on October 26, 2004. That's over 17 years ago. SA:MP was released several years after that. We're talking about a piece of software that is not only old but also abandoned by the owner. The original iPhone was released around the same time SA:MP was. On the flip side, the reality is that there is though still demand for old games. One successful revival is Old School Runescape. Games like these live in a special place in our hearts because of how much time we spent playing them when growing up.

Argonath's SA:MP server in general has not changed drastically since RS4. Sure, there has been some additional UI changes, new jobs, and group system but in general it's the same product for the last almost ten years. This is not to discount the amount of work done by the developers. But to be honest, the main core system has been exactly the same for the last ten years.

If you are a new player coming into the server you'll realize that there is no end goal. There is no incentive. You just grind to make money. Buy properties. Buy vehicles. Buy weapons. There is no endgame. You work and then buy. No satisfaction.

My suggestion: we need to figure out the identity of the server and the main core objective. This could be through missions. This could be through interactive interactions. But at the end, there needs to be a reason for why someone will want to come on. That something cannot be that they can get more virtual stuff.


Lack of inbound traffic and discoverability

The thing that is holding Argonath together right now is community. It's the reason we all come back and check forums on a daily basis. It's the reason we sit in Discord and engage in chats. But one of the pitfalls with Argonath in general is that our inbound/outbound has been lack luster.

We have not spent an adequate amount of time on growing our audience and getting our name out there. We're stuck in think that if we build, people will come. In reality, this method rarely works. The way you get new people to find your product and service is through advertisement - whether directly or indirectly. Originally, I think this was the goal with the original advertisement team.

My suggestion: we should create more content to get people excited to try out our servers. We should expand to other games. We should sponsor events with famous streamers to get others to check us out.


Lack of community ownership and direction

This one is the elephant in our room. Our owners are absent. Based on some conversations with HQ - they are alive but they are busy with other work and only respond when there is downtime. It's hard to be in a ship with no captain. Yes, we have community leaders but even those seem to only check in every once in a while just make sure that the place isn't on fire. The reality of our situation is that we lack direction. We have several servers being pulled in various directions without any clear indication on where they should be heading.

What made Argonath work original was engaged owners + an active, healthy community. When owners are involved - they know exactly where they want to lead the next iteration and know exactly the pulse of where things are happening. If the owners are absent, the community is left scrambling over visions and past glory days. I proposed potentially acquiring Argonath a couple years ago as a way to try to lead it. Looking back at it now, it feels more like a savior complex than anything else.

We have a community. We have people constantly coming back to the server and forums. But we're not harnessing them and utilizing them properly. Take a look at TheGreasyChopper suggestions as an example. Take a look at Thom's suggestions. We have people who want to help and be involved.

My suggestion: we need the owners and leadership to be actively involved in discussions with the community and not just leading in directions they think are right. I would also suggest going from Argonath RPG to plainly Argonath and expand to other games and game modes.

Those are just my thoughts on this and I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes. I welcome everyone to challenge them.

The last part is something true asf. We can see another community that has active leaders, multiple community managers, server leaders, etc. They have a direction, meanwhile in Argonath, I don't even have the server on my list. I found it pointless to even have a look at it, the atmosphere when entered in Argonath feels so different, the game-play to some extent feels odd as well. When the issues were addressed by the active players, it'd have been easier to fix it, but better late than never. Playerbase attracts, moving to FC, or such shit wouldn't help. A few groups interacting with one another, enjoying their time, attracting other newbies and guiding them would help. That's what's needed. It's something the helper job was introduced for, with less players, the available veterans should be the ones helping this server. I'm not that, neither do I play SA:MP a lot. Found myself happier elsewhere, but you could always give what I suggested a go.

[Nathan]

.

[Khm]

I tried to get involved over the last week as Brian said that anyone who wants to step up - can. I wrote out [a vision](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b3WkrO6kXcHMSDeIA9GiGSCfof7bqhO6fH0IzviyguI/edit?usp=sharing) which was more for application of the community in whole.

I started to work with Badandy on a plan of action. I shared the vision with the existing SA:MP team and some key players. All except one agreed with the all of it. Hell, even Badandy was thinking of quitting SA efforts and chatting/convincing him further, we started to think out about the potential move to MTA and must have core features.

I had a discussion with Brian, Badandy, and laid out my vision to them. In response, I got the following statement,

You have ideas, we don't agree with all those ideas / want to bring up our views on things. That's not always bad thing, that's teamwork. That's the whole thing we've been trying to talk about. And it's the same reason most members of HQ wouldn't want the role of owner being filled by someone else. Because we'd much rather have a team of people where, if needed, roles can be replaced. Rather than have a Gandalf/Aragorn situation all over again.

I agree we need to change things and have to work on things but we also need to work with the experience we have learned from the history of the community. You also have to respect the existence of the other Argonath servers and their leaders. You don't have to like them or agree with them but we're still a team nonetheless and if you want to take on a role like being HQ member of SA, you'll have to put your focus there before you look on how your ideas should change the entire community.

I felt really discouraged by what was said. It was my understanding that the HQ team wanted something new and wanted someone to lead it. I spent hours thinking through ways of how to improve our situation and instead, I find out that Brian hasn't even shared anything with the broader team. That’s messed up because I feel like I’m just not being valued and I feel like I’m wasting my time since nobody cares what I am trying to help with.

If the HQ team continue to do things as they have always done - you will have a dead community. Your team’s actions brought the server and the broader community to this point. I’m here not because I have a savior complex but because I truly want to help the community and want it to grow. So far, I haven’t seen ANY action from HQ this year to suggest they are even trying to turn the situation around. Instead, all I hear is excuses and even worse, blaming players, scripts, and whatever else EXCEPT to apologize for being ineffective leaders, for not making great decisions, and for taking actions slow.

In sales, time kills most deals. Time is the most important factor right now. Taking another six months to make one decision is no longer appropriate. Doing things as they have always been done is no longer appropriate. HQ needs to step up and making decisions quickly and start making progress. It's been too damn long and everyone is sick and tired of it.

Why did I leave? Because we don't have a culture of embracing change and experiment with different ideas. Because we have a flawed leadership structure with inactive owners, half active HQ members who are benchwarmers and who make decisions on behalf of other servers they are not in charge of, and don't want to see progress.

Having all this context now, I decided this morning to no longer be involved with attempting to resurrect the SA community. I wish luck to anyone who tries but realize that you will have an uphill battle.

I have no idea what happened but this is not how to have a discussion over matters like this, it's not my way or the highway. Just as much as you want them to hear your ideas and opinion on things you should also hear theirs out, you don't have to agree to them but you shouldn't expect them to agree with yours aswell which should lead to a middle ground. From the looks of this comment, I understood that you wanted to claim ownership of the community which would mean all the keys will be held by one person and we should have learned by now that this has always been our main issue the past years; all powers held by one person. The times we're in are hard, instead of butting heads over powers the community should be a community and help eachother find solutions to sort things out with the activity.