Argonath 'pictures'

[Kitsune]

That is not necessarily metagaming, it would depend on why the person is suspicious.

[Abraham]

That is not necessarily metagaming, it would depend on why the person is suspicious.

What are you talking about now?
You said that the FBI could get a UNDETECTABLE bug. Now THAT would be metagaming.

[Kitsune]

wtf? if your trying to bust someone, you bring a bug, that is not metagmaing...

unless your talking about some random walks up to you and offers you drugs. But from what I know, FBI are more involved with busting bigger people they suspect, not arresting random drug dealers. Moreover, this situation with a random person is far less likely.

[Abraham]

What are you talking about now?
You said that the FBI could get a :alert" :alert" :alert" UNDETECTABLE :alert" :alert" :alert" bug. Now THAT would be metagaming.

[Kitsune]

You either don't know what I am talking about or don't know what is meta gaming.

Having the availability of a discrete bug as an FBI is not meta gaming .

Meta gaming is using something from ooc to help you in rp like walking up to a random person you do not recognise, reading their name and saying "Hello Name."

If you are FBI and your going to bust someone, you equip yourself with a bug, where is the part where ooc comes into this?

[Abraham]

Undetectable.

IT CAN'T BE DETECTED NO MATTER WHAT!

Metagaming.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

[Kitsune]

Metagaming.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

Can you tell me exactly, which part of this quote the bug goes under?

[Abraham]

Well then you should have said that gives too much of an advantage, that is not metagaming.

None of that applies to having said bug.

1. In my opinion it is. As I see it, there's a unwritten rule saying you should always play fair. And that's a unfair advantage. Hence it's Metagaming.

2. Undetectable, how hard can it be to read? UNDETECTABLE.

[Abraham]

An undetectable bug does not go under any of the points mentioned in that quote.

Make up your mind, and stop changing your posts.

And yes, Like I said, it does.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

[Kitsune]

The definition I had of metagaming was somthing more along the lines of:

In role-playing games, metagaming is the use of out-of-character knowledge in an in-character situation. A character played by a metagamer does not act in a way that reflects the character's in-game experiences and back-story.

I never heard of that part you bolded being part of meta gaming.

[Abraham]

I changed my post because that definition you quoted of meta gaming including something I did not see in other ones.

Lol, changed it three times now? No problems

And, I awnsered your question already :P

[Abraham]

Ghost, we can sit here all night playing around with words and edit our posts. But that does not change the fact that having a undetectable bug is a unfair advantage.
I've already posted an alternative to it, but that you seem to ignore. There are also several other ways to bust a drug dealer, without taking it to the extreme.

And like I said before, in my opinion there's a unwritten rule about fair-play, you can say it's even written down in some ways (Hacking, bugg abusing = ban) and having the  advantage of busting whoever you want, whenever you want is not fair. Therefor it should not be allowed.

If the FBI wants, I could come up with several ways for them to bust drug dealers, no problems. I got a good imagination, I can come up with allot of stuff. But as long as it's fair-play, it's cool with me. For example, if I get suspected unfairly, I will get really pissed and yell out. But if it's a fair suspection, I'll just laugh about it and do my best to get out of it (in a RP way ofcourse).

Now, having a bug, that is not detectable by anyone or anything ( a undetectable bug ) is not fair gaming. As the other co-player has no way of defending himself towards it. Now I'm not saying I'm against using bugs, cause I'm not. I like the idea, as long as it's executed in a good way(!). Cause I know that people doesn't always check people for bugs, the only reason someone would do it is if the other person seems suspicious in some way. And if this where to happen, The screenshots taken should not be valid.

PS. What you said about FBI only going after high-profile drug dealers, on argonath, this would be a false statement.

Ghost, one last thing... You have to see from the eyes of the criminal aswell, and not only from the eyes of the "good guys"

[Abraham]

You either don't know what I am talking about or don't know what is meta gaming.

Having the availability of a discrete bug as an FBI is not meta gaming .

Meta gaming is using something from ooc to help you in rp like walking up to a random person you do not recognise, reading their name and saying "Hello Name."

If you are FBI and your going to bust someone, you equip yourself with a bug, where is the part where ooc comes into this?

Aah, yet another very beautiful and very anoying modification of your posts.

Oh, so now it's discrete bugs? Make your mind up... I have nothing against discrete bugs, never said I did.
I said, I have a problem with, let me quoute...

undetectable bug.

Maybe our definitions of meta-gaming isn't the same, or maybe mine is totally wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that it's NOT FAIR!

[Abraham]

The definition I had of metagaming was somthing more along the lines of:I never heard of that part you bolded being part of meta gaming.

And another modificaiton...

Acting on technical and/or scientific knowledge that the character is not or could not be aware of (such as creating gunpowder in a dark ages or middle ages setting).

Using certain types of attack or defense based on the strengths and weaknesses of a monster/other characters the character knows nothing of.

Read it and wheap. It comes from the exact same page you got your quote from.

[Kitsune]

You need to calm down, your making too much fuss over me re-wording my posts, that is not the main issue here.

Maybe our definitions of meta-gaming isn't the same, or maybe mine is totally wrong.

This is why this discussion has been so extended.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's NOT FAIR!

For this issue of fairness, I do have an understanding for your perspective and I don't really have anything to say to argue of that so I will leave it here at this point.